Roll, you're a lunatic. But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to
set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they
used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of
things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then
starts,
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 Re: Tweedy
quote/alt.countr.. by "Terry A. Smith"@seorf.O
But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to
set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they
used to play rock songs. They'd get goin
stuart wrote:
I happened to catch Man in the Sand (the film about making Mermaid
Avenue) on BBC,
Whoa. Is this available anywhere here in the US? Off-list replies are
fine if y'all discussed this to death while I was hiding.
Dave, who is still laughing over having just heard new
Actually as absurd as this is gonna sound, you are not really the
pedant/intellectualizing type Terry. I am sorry. You did manage to get a
little condescension in there in my opinion, but ultimately your initial
post had a bit too much passion. I am sorry. g
-jim
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Terry
stuart wrote:
I happened to catch Man in the Sand (the film about making Mermaid
Avenue) on BBC,
Whoa. Is this available anywhere here in the US? Off-list replies are
fine if y'all discussed this to death while I was hiding.
Dave Purcell
I happened to be in England the same time as
Fair enough, Todd. The most interesting aspect of this thread for me was
seeing the residual (but powerful) respect and support for UT et al that
exists on this list. I'm surprised, I guess, because whenever there's a
sort of reflexive dismissal of the alt.country field -- many of whose bands
The suggestion that "skill" is something that's solidly on the
country side of the tracks...
Uh-oh, time for some clarification, or maybe backtracking g. I don't
think I've argued that skill (why the quotes?) is something that's solidly
on the country side of the tracks; I have argued, and I
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 RE: Tweedy
quote/alt.countr.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne
I'd be
hard-pressed to think of examples of instrumentals in the alt.country field
that don't fall pretty clearly into the out-of-classic-country stream,
rather than t
Sez Carl:
One problem I see with your logic, Jon, is that much of the rock side of
alt.country's influences (especially the punk artists), for whatever
reason, don't include many instrumentals. Bands influenced by the
Clash, the Sex Pistols, and the Velvet Ungerground tend to sing (or
Terry Smith:
nr(reading). Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler?
Well, Stalin liked sports; Hitler liked music. It bent these men a little,
positively bent them.
Barry
(These are the wages of synthesis.)
Barry Mazor wrote:
Terry Smith:
nr(reading). Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler?
Well, Stalin liked sports; Hitler liked music. It bent these men a little,
positively bent them.
Barry
(These are the wages of synthesis.)
Yeah but was Stalin the Tweedy fan and Hitler the
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 RE: instrumentally
speaking.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne
The Sadies have a few on their album (I think the
surf influence has a lot to do with it...
Not to mention the bluegrass/country one g, which I'm reminded of because
there was a
In a message dated 3/9/99 3:02:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
True. I offer surf for a reason, as it is an instrumentally-based style
of rock. Off the top of my head, I can't think of many twang bands who
incorporate surf other than the Sadies (though I haven't heard
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, James Gerard Roll wrote:
But I suspect that (while no-one will admit it) there is a certain status
that A FEW people desire when part of a small cultish phenomenon like P2
that involves members wanting to prove that they are not part of the TREND
but rather have a
Yeah but was Stalin the Tweedy fan and Hitler the Farrar fan, or vice versa? Or
did Hitler think that UT were the progenitors of alt-country, while Stalin
asserted that it was a decades old form that was not being duly recognized as
such by the UT fans, or vice versa? Or...
Actually,
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Don Yates wrote:
of that's no doubt the usual hipster cooler-than-thou pose (which can be
found in just about any musical subgenre you care to name), but I'd like
to think that it's also an implicit recognition of the value of tradition
in country music. OK, I'm foolin'
In a message dated 3/9/99 3:22:44 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I can't think of many twang bands who
incorporate surf other than the Sadies
Deke dickerson did a few surfy numbers at the Cheapo instore on saturday. Good
stuff.
Slim
Hey there,
Linda "it's not about the music it's about the internet" Ray
That's pretty gosh darn funny.
I'm a bit amused that there seems to be a strong alt.country (or at least
Uncle Tupelo) backlash going on on this list.
Later...
CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Christopher M Knaus wrote:
Later...
CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g
Welcome to the *dark* side, Chris. Eclectic club meets
every 3rd Wednesday. Next meeting's focus: is Euro synth-pop dead?
Jerry
Chris wrote:
I'm a bit amused that there seems to be a strong alt.country (or at least
Uncle Tupelo) backlash going on on this list.
C'mon, CK, why be amused? It's been clear to me for the past, oh, two
years, that the name of this list is mainly incidental for many of us. It
has about as
Linda Ray wrote:
Yah. Actually, all UT started was P2. Well, and Postcard, of
course. Well okay and No Depression Magazine, but, hey.
Uh, you can bet dollars to donuts that P2 would've happened on its
own. The accidental spawning of P2 off of Postcard nicely
coincided with the general
In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash
receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco,
etc.
Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc.
is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and
AMEN! Well said, Todd. Way to go...
(I'm quoting Todd's message after this because it deserves to be read...)
Tom
...who's heard a lot of cool music thanks to various P2ers but still can't
get into country all that much. *grin*
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Todd Larson wrote:
In one respect, I'd
...I placed all my blame on writers who can't seem
to do anything but regurgitate press releases, and I thought Terry,
etc., were also blaming the hype machine, and no one else.
Well I'd like to think that I championed UT and much of it's related offshoots
(SV's a bore at this point) in the
Great passionate post from Todd "Touch me, I'm shit-sick" Larson,
although I don't remember anyone blaming UT *or* their fans for
anything. FWIW, I placed all my blame on writers who can't seem
to do anything but regurgitate press releases, and I thought Terry,
etc., were also blaming the hype
Jeff's cuter than Jay,
Neal Weiss
possibly. But Jay writes better songs. I am frankly baffled by the Summerteeth
hype. My copy will be filed alongside Lucinda Williams' Car Wheels: played it
once, tried to play it again, got bored rigid.
Stevie
Todd Larson said:
Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc.
is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and
realize that alt.country was around before 1990.
...and a lot of other very perceptive stuff. Y'know, I'm a little tired of
In a message dated 3/9/99 1:57:25 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco,
etc.
is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and
realize that alt.country was around before 1990.
...and a lot
Reading the day's P-2 stuff late, and amazed how a few folks' simple
challenge of UT's status as godheads of alternative country is being seen
as heresy. A bloody explosion of defensiveness. I didn't really even see
anybody criticize the music; it was mainly just a few expressions of
annoyance at
Hey there,
Later...
CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g
Welcome to the *dark* side, Chris. Eclectic club meets
every 3rd Wednesday. Next meeting's focus: is Euro synth-pop dead?
Jerry
Let me ammend my original statement.
Later...
CK who somehow manages to like almost
Hey Tom,
Knowing you and your music, you would probably get more into UT's "March
16-20" album. All acoustic-based pretty much and album of "Acuff-Rose" type
songs.
Damn! Just shot another Del-Stranger hater out my window with my musket. Hope
I didn't hurt him too bad. I'll be sure to rid the
purcell wrote:
Nothing against the original
Postcard-to-P2 folks (I was one, been on since day one), but P2
didn't get really interesting until lots of non-Postcarders started
coming along.
Thank you Dave. I will take that as a complement.
Todd Larson in his pledge for President of P2
Carl wrote:
I think if you look at the P2 Survey you'll see the untruth of this. I'm
convinced that alt-country is a (as Monsieur London puts it) "tailbust" and
"gen-x" phenomenon. A glance around the audience at any alt-country show
I've attended shows it skewing way to folks in their late-20s
At 5:34 PM -0500 on 3/5/99, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a
decade too late.
Yeah but, can't a decade too late also mean brand new to a new generation?
Well, sure, if they've got no perspective. Asleep at the Wheel invented
I don't think I was asserting a simplistic summation of twentieth century
music inasmuch as I was trying to say that successful music from any
generation seems to be tied to the 16-30 crowd. "Successful" meaning that
it sold well and helped to define a particular generation for the history
books
At 12:06 PM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote:
Tera wrote:
- alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to
alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd.
Just a quick note as I gather breath to respond to Jake's epic
call'n'response from yesterday -
I
In a message dated 3/6/99 9:18:32 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The older folks,
the ones with jobs and largely without .EDU at the end of the e-mail
account, are more into the music.
and less into the bands? wait. . .I'm confused. This often happens at the
brink of
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The older folks, the ones with jobs and largely without .EDU at the end
of the e-mail
account, are more into the music.
and less into the bands? wait. . .I'm confused. This often happens at the
brink of a cosmic insight. Please keep going with this train of
JG Roll said:
I think that the bottom line is that Alt-Country is the commercial kiss of
death. Nobody has really broken thru (Lucinda not excepted), and the
radio format is a complete commercial wasteland. When you consider that
these people (Wilco, etc.) are on major labels, and have been at
Your first sentence sparked a few thoughts - alt.country seems to be music
for we aging baby boomers as opposed to alt.rock or new country which seems
to target the teen to twenties crowd. In a sense, alt.country is our
nostalgia as much as a repackaging of "70's Metal Greats" or any of
OH boy. Man Terry, you really have my blood boiling up here in Ann Arbor,
and I am sure this debate has happened here before. But I am gonna bite
anyways.
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote:
This stuff confuses me, as does the idea that a "movement" evolved around
Uncle Tupelo and
Jim says:
I also challenge the idea that Alt. Country suddenly includes Bluegrass,
Countrypolitan, Old Time, Folk, Punk-a-billy, Cowpunk, etc. Those things
existed as genres before Alt. Country and No Depression ever surfaced.
So did country-rock.
I think ultimately the reason that all of
PROTECTED]
To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tweedy quote
Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 4:24 PM
Sure its OK for an artist to "re-invent themselves" once in a while. Can
anyone say Neil Young " Trans". Mr. Tweedy can say anything he wants and
it
doesn't change a
James Gerard Roll wrote:
> I think you've got your head in the sand if you think that Uncle Tupelo
> was not at the helm of the current No Depression/Alt. Country ship. This
> does not mean that they are a great band or that there wasn't
> non-commercial country prior to UT, (much as one would
You can go back
through the twentieth century and see that the predominating influential
music of an era was rather high-speed frantic, sexually charged rhythms and
lyrically suggestive
vocals which seemed to "speak" to the adrenaline-laced, sexually confused,
frustrated and seemingly
"Chris Orlet" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
How can anyone say Tweety is reinventing himself by 'creating' tired old
70s pop?
Your slam at "tired old '70s pop" is just as ignorant as other people's
slams at "tired old twangy country music". Don't be a moron.
Bill Gribble
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote:
reference to Tweedy because I'll gladly nominate Jack as the most
overrated of the Beats. No one would've heard jack about Jack if
Ginsberg hadn't tirelessly shopped and promoted his work. "On
The Road" will always be a jackoff work compared to
At 10:14 AM -0500 05/3/99, Dave Purcell wrote:
In my best Beavis voice, I'd respond, "Uh...so what?" Uncle Tupelo wasn't
at the helm of *anything*. The media made them, in retrospect, the leader
of this so-called movement. Terry's point is well stated: country
rock/roots rock has been around
James Gerard Roll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No
Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here??
ND is *some* people's bible. Honestly I have never even seen a single
issue of it. Last night I read
Tera wrote:
- alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to
alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd.
Just a quick note as I gather breath to respond to Jake's epic
call'n'response from yesterday -
I think if you look at the P2 Survey
Jim's ps -- for me the term 'alt. country' indicates the combination of (post
Nirvana) ALT-rock and traditional COUNTRY. UT/Jayhawks exemplefy this
movement.
I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No
Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody
Who's are the Scorchers?
NW
Some overrated roots band from the 80s.
The future of nothing, as far as I can tell.
marie
Reply to: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Who's are the Scorchers?
NW
Some overrated roots band from the 80s. The future of nothing, as far as I can tell.
marie
As far as I can tell, Jason and the Scorchers was an important cowpunk band.
And a hell of a live
On 5 Mar 1999, Bill Gribble wrote:
ND is *some* people's bible. Honestly I have never even seen a single
issue of it. Last night I read a couple of the interviews in the ND
book and I was not blown away by the writing. And I have never
listened to a single Uncle Tupelo album. I saw Son
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote:
ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll
admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied
in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I
wasn't necessarily challenging
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote:
And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about
Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle
Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't
necessarily prove anything. -- Terry
e struggle
of farming, just like I did.
-Original Message-
From: James Gerard Roll [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote:
ps I
Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a
pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's
not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid
fault and slept there for a few days in my flannel t-shirt and blue
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote:
As far as I can tell, Jason and the Scorchers was an important cowpunk band.
And a hell of a live band.
Hans P speaketh the truth, except that you can replace "was" with
"is."
Yeah, and Jason R.'s solo Cd a few years back was (is) the future
of
Jeff Copetas dreamt this up:
Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a
pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's
not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid
fault and slept there for a few
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote:
And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about
Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle
Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't
necessarily prove anything. --
Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a
decade too late.
Yeah but, can't a decade too late also mean brand new to a new generation?
NW
In a message dated 3/5/99 12:14:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I am merely stating that one of the main
journals reviewing Americana music (does anyone dispute this?? I am sure
there will be) is named after a UT album.
I thought that was a Carter Family song.
I
Howdy,
Dave: I'll gladly nominate Being There as one of the most overrated
records of the
90s. There aren't enough good songs on there to make a good single disc, let
alone two.
I heart Dave Purcell.
Take care,
Shane Rhyne
Knoxville, TN
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a
decade too late.
and the unfortunate part of this is joe ely has yet to really find his
decadeone of those artists who has been mining this "genre" (whatever the
hell you folks want to call this genre) for yrs and yrs yet
In a message dated 3/5/99 9:14:18 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
/colorBig deal, indeed. I agree completely with Terry, though -- it does
get awfully fucking tiresome to read the tripe about UT starting
some big movement, especially when one reads the oft-repeated
Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt,
Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves from
alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop albums? I
dont recall punk groups, or grunge acts going around denying they were punk
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Chris Orlet wrote:
Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt,
Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves
from alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop
albums? I dont recall punk groups, or
"Chris Orlet" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt,
Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves from
alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop albums?
Some people like country, and
Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the
freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and
good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that
I think that the bottom line is that Alt-Country is the commercial kiss of
death. Nobody has really broken thru (Lucinda not excepted), and the
radio format is a complete commercial wasteland. When you consider that
these people (Wilco, etc.) are on major labels, and have been at this a
long
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the
freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and
good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that
He sure does. Then again, all of his defensive
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Don Yates wrote:
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes yes, no one likes to be pidgeon-holed and many want the
freedom to re-invent themselves from time to time musically. All well and
good. But methinks Mr. Tweedy protests too much that
He
At 9:10 AM -0600 04/3/99, Chris Orlet wrote:
Dare someone try to explain why so many artists/bands (Wilco, Son Volt,
Fulks, apparently Old 97s etc) are so intent on distancing themselves from
alt-country, even to the point of making 70s/Beach Boy-esque pop albums? I
dont recall punk groups, or
Right, right. so the question becomes, if he is no longer twang, when do we
stop talking about Tweedy?
Your smartass reply here__
Ross Whitwam writes: Jeff Tweedy I think is an example of this -- he
often seems
to pre-emptively bring up his belief that he definitely isn't
James Gerard Roll wrote:
I think that the bottom line is that Alt-Country is the commercial kiss of
death. Nobody has really broken thru (Lucinda not excepted), and the
radio format is a complete commercial wasteland. When you consider that
these people (Wilco, etc.) are on major labels,
What in god's name are you talking about? Being There overrated? Oh yea,
those Jason and the Scorchers were the best band ever!
luv,
rebecca
-Original Message-
From: Dave Purcell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Tweedy should stop protesting (first it was the internet, now it's the
Proud Texan Rebecca wrote:
What in god's name are you talking about? Being There
overrated? Oh yea, those Jason and the Scorchers were the best
band ever!
I thought that might draw you out. I'm glad to see we agree. On
both counts!
Dave
***
Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Northern Ky
Depression movement
might benefit from a "Pet Sounds" impact type of album. Then again as an
artist I know that any press is good press.
Dutch
Crowd of One
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tweedy quote
Date: Thursday, March 04,
Tweedy should stop protesting (first it was the internet, now it's the
alt.country tag) and try to write some decent songs. I'll gladly
nominate Being There as one of the most overrated records of the
90s. There aren't enough good songs on there to make a good
single disc, let alone
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