or JOSM :)
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start!
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on the
imagery ... that is what is irritating ...
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crib sheet only to find it needs updating, but I need to spend a
few more hours using it.
It *IS* important to identify the sourse of an object and what work has already
been done on it, but I'm not sure what facilities are provided to do that?
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Data Editor' ... yes we have to trust people, but are
the safeguards in place to cope with making that freely available? I work with
XML data and I would still be nervous editing it without the right tools!
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are
pulled up from that!
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Pieren wrote:
- attribution lost in data extracts, planet (separate file for changesets)
ACTUALLY that is probably the killer?
Local working with truncated extracts SHOULD still report this type of data?
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of configuration would that be accurate.
Perhaps all I am asking for is a 'default' set of tags that get added which I
have to change manually, but the DATA certainly is important, and tags like
'start_date' should be populated by default!
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to the information when one is looking at something and saying That
is wrong! you may know straight away that it is a candidate to update.
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the editors don't present it!
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in 'layers' that can be ignored when creating some data
feeds.
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unsubstantiated detail would at
least be a start.
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commercial buildings and if they are listed, local house
sales help add more detail.
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affect the ground plan, but if
anything, the buildings are offset OVER the missing roads. The church looks
nice, but google streetview only seems to cover the outer ring road :(
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a
little practice, and needs clean images, but France would benefit from a few
'cadastre' importers filling other details in the areas they are importing :(
Personally I would not be happy if *I* had uploaded some of the areas I'm
looking at ...
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- but similarly JUST uploading buildings is pointless?
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be used to add a little more detail when appropriate?
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that in my workflow :) In this case it would need a local survey to
ascertain access rights. We do not assume that where there is no data available.
Further west you will find that the firing ranges on Salisbury plains have some
gaps as well :)
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diagonal lines are removed. I get the
impression that this is a process that should be happening but not everybody is
'complying', so something needs to be done to re-educate those mappers to the
'assistance' element over the 'just copy raw' activity?
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of details like
that which I've not recorded properly, and certainly that level of detail is
missing on streetview )
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is important, not
just a 'current view' of what people think matter for them?
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is your 'raw data' layer, in which case there should
be a 'version select' or your staging layer?
We are missing tools to make all this work, but they are the same tools world
wide, and we just need to identify some fine detail on the processes?
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of the original source data when a warning is
created would also be helpful.
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Richard Fairhurst wrote:
It doesn't actually make any difference to me personally
- I only_use_ OSM data for the UK, where we don't have imports
Yet ;)
I want to get the border layer stuff working directly from the import rather
than 'importing' it piecemeal into the base data ...
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large blocks of raw data to be copied over once they have
been identified as building or what ever?
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files are the 'staging layer' and I'm sure that since you are
providing each building as a shape then in the future it should be possible to
maintain a 'building_id' that can be used with the sort of merge tools I am
looking for to handle this type of data?
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to manually select objects to import would
provide that check? So I'd block any area select function, so that hundreds of
objects can't simply be picked and pushed?
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THEVENON Julien wrote:
* De :* Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk
* *Now that I understand what is going on, I can see where some off the
'extra' lines come from, and the diagonal is probably due to a boundary detail
from changing sheets.
This is more often due to split of landuse ownership
still need to split and
add address data ...
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to
be imported? With a decent editor, one should be able to select the outline of
a block and simply import that ...
where did you see open building objects ?
I was referring to the extra line segments within the box ...
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- past or future - for the rendering we want?
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.
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as I'm sure it can be
managed if essential, but the 'difference' may also be legitimate and pulling
that apart at the moment is an even more interesting problem.
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maintains a source tag
of the relevant layer, then we can see what has come from that source, and can
hopefully over time develop a 'history' of the imports objects into the base
'layer' and archive deleted data into an historic layer.
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:)
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spot the areas to go down
through the levels. This may be easier in the short term as simple snapshot
views as images, but to be able to retain live OSM as a background?
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complex import data or keep the
simplified view? Manual intervention on the merge process.
BUT it does make more sense to me to keep the bulk of this imagery ON a separate
database since displaying it or not should be optional at the viewer?
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? If I just replace
all the .prj files with the 'new' one all the layers will line up?
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Paul Norman wrote:
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
who last edited an object! ). Where the import HAS nice unique object
identifiers things are a lot easier, but raw vector data like the French
import, and I think
Paul Norman wrote:
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:47 PM
To: 'OSM'
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Paul Norman wrote:
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal
'
but are happy to just take other peoples?
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.
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-headache
Begs the question - are any of the OSM routing options iPhone friendly?
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been lost, so there is no way to identify them from new
buildings that only appear in the latest import ...
With all the historic mapping now available we have the option to add historic
dates to objects as well ... without interfering with anybody else?
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that identifies conflicts that need a human eye. Isn't it better to spend time
working out a GOOD way of using the data going forward rather than having to
manually merge the whole lot again in a couple of years time ... and every
couple of years.
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of where I am heading :)
Of cause being able to click on a 'ward' and show the councillors will have to
come later ...
Currently the site just has a list of streets for each, so it will be nice to
know if they are ALL on OSM ...
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practical experience of handing this type of import, how about contributing
to the overhaul? Actually where is THAT being debated?
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, and currently is still the best way to
identify things until a more rugged solution is provided - centrally!
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side! - it is just a matter of
miss-understanding what people are saying? On both sides?
Lets move all this energy into fixing the process and getting a robust mechanism
moving forward!
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don't have the information to suggest
anything else :( In the case of the UK data we know how, we are just not allowed
to yet double :(
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sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote:
We can get back to the topic of governance and discussion about those laws and
who decide them, and how.
Or just get back to fixing the process in the first place?
SO we have less chance of misinterpreting the 'guidelines'?
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Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
On 20/09/2012 13:18, Lester Caine wrote:
Go on wiping and reloading every time the source data is updated and manually
merging everything.
Sounds ugly doesn't it ? Because it is. Wouldn't it be much better if each
building from the cadastre had a UUID that could
data I'm being
supplied, and now the sources are using my id's to improve their end.
Unfortunately not usable mapping stuff though.
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code that only needs some local filtering to work
with a particular import? Isn't it better where we HAVE vector data to make the
best use of it, and then spend our time enhancing the details ... like adding
road names and house numbers?
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database. Rather than
the quite heroic efforts that are currently being used to import them?
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Béland Pierre wrote:
2012-09-20 Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk
Comment fields are not documented as well as they should be and the 'problem'
that instigated this thread is to my view of what's
on line a very good example of why there WAS a problem. Correctly flagging
information
of OGD data in multiple formats will be merged into a
coherent whole? And perhaps some of that data will only be accessible on
secondary servers as overlays?
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to the data source!
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we
get the go ahead to merge it with OSM. So I should probably be offering to help
assess what is needed to support the French data import. Except my French is so
bad that I'd not know where to start ;)
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SHOULD have been having
this discussion in March? And been helping you at that stage to better manage
the use of this data? There is a lot of good expertise available so the one
thing we do NOT want is smaller groups doing their own thing :(
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not alone in feeling
that this has fallen a little behind in this case? That said, the whole
Catalogue *IS* due for an overhaul :(
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than
some vague tag on a roadway meters away from it. Provided that we all follow the
same rules when adding this sort of fine detail.
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the local community some of their own autonomy should not allow them to
rubber stamp changes that remove this simply courtesy to other mappers to
identify 'importing' over 'mapping'?
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, and then merges from that can easily be identified to the user actually
making the changes. That perhaps is not obvious these days?
We need to cooperate and agree the best way of doing things, but we do still
have a way to go to get systems that work world wide.
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overlay system so this sort of raw data can be imported and
then processed where we can all review it.
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to be merged in some way? Certainly a
large section of the OS data is only useful as reference material and any import
is only going to obliterate more accurate data, so having it available as an
overlay works well.
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are applied to the main database.
Some better involvement of local groups would be useful here I think?
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of an area but is totally ignored as a valid reason
for not 'blanked wiping' an area to allow new data to be uploaded! Merging new
imports with existing data is difficult, so tends not to happen, delete and
reload is the quick fix but is destroying often valuable data :(
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is some mechanism in the editors to keep the maximum commit down to a certain
size? Any 'local import' would be restricted to what is a manageable size once
committed? The time warnings should restrict things, but a 'size' limit so that
one has to commit once that limit is reached?
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are protecting other peoples work ...
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historic data has been lost. I'm in the second camp ...
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or so, not
after 2 days work. The CORRECT procedure would have been to take a block of
buildings at a time. If you have to delete the existing data then at least it's
more easily linked to the new smaller import.
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Marc Sibert wrote:
Le 18/09/2012 23:24, Lester Caine a écrit :
Marc Sibert wrote:
Again, I'm not a vandal : I do not detroy any work (and nobody complains about
that), I just update data (replace), that is not the point why my account was
blocked !
So, what have you done in my case
...
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.
There is no 'definition' of the gaps between postcodes until perhaps a new
building is added. This is one of the reasons that the National Land and
Property Gazetteer uses it's on references numbers for streets and properties
and postcodes - when recorded - are buried in the fine detail.
--
Lester
of our content only, but I think the work involved with adding that would
probably have taken another couple of years? :(
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these sort of things are discussed :(
ANY change to tagging should be approved on the tagging list only?
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that
explains that one of two signs is wrong, but until what is visible on the ground
is changed, the base information is well defined - even if it is totally wrong
:) And that applies everywhere in the world ... EVEN if some local authority try
to dictate otherwise.
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not to render anything since that is the case on the
ground. Translated options for names can then be freely used for translated maps.
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... or so?
That is the lang=xx tag for a higher level area, but we probably need
official_lang and local_lang :)
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...
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osm map following the
'map what is on the ground' rule ...
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clear on my post ;)
BUT we do still need some flag which indicate what language is used on the sign
we are looking at!!!
I would not be so blinkered to insist that the main map is 'English' - this
should always be 'on the ground', but an 'English' layer would be nice :)
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tag for many objects so if you
go to open.mapquest.com which prefers English names you should be fine ;)
But I would still need to know what was on the signs as well if I went there :)
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. The map needs to
correspond with the observed real world. If street signs in Ukraine are
in Russian, then the tagged name should be in Russian. When the signs
are changed to Ukrainian, then that is the time to re-tag.
Nicely put ...
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for selection, but I could make a
case for two overlays on the main map, one in english? With links to tile sets
in other languages?
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is a
rendering problem, so mapping xx^yy ( or what ever ) to name:xx - name:yy would
be conversion problem anyway, and may involve RTL conversion as well ... what
does one do with a pair of names with reverse directions?
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Petr Morávek [Xificurk] wrote:
Lester Caine wrote:
colliar wrote:
I also prefer the name that is on the sign, but we should think about
always
adding the name with its language tag, too, otherwise it is not clear
which
language is used and you have to get this information from some other
with an appropriate list if required. I don't think
you want to start messing with 'name=' itself in this case? But the tools should
be able to override the 'name=' tag with a more suitable local option based on a
local 'lang=' setting.
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in
general terms?
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anyway if only to identify the languages that appear in 'name=' so that
we can then translate them correctly?
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to keeping
data and format separate ...
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital
the
website, but could not find any physical addresses listed ;)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr still irritates when I'm adding
addresses for business premises ...
addr:unit could fit your use ...
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki
and cleaned the
data, but we need local contributor to do that in their own area. The new map
data is now totally compliant with the more open license and any new data will
have to remain complaint. So the only reason data has gone missing is because
nobody has bothered to clean it up :(
--
Lester
:(
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
and I certainly think
it's worth tagging when it happens as the alternative routes are miles!
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model
yet.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http
' that has resulted from the exercise that is more important.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http
the ICO has changed the advise again in June it
HAS also said that it will not be taking action against anybody any time soon,
so sitting on hands is probably equally safe at the moment.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine
back to fixing the errors!
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http
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