Hi, Gilberto,
I wrote:
However, I assume you believe in contextualizing some sort of timeless (?)
essentialist morality.
You replied:
Sure. Except I'm not sure I can clearly even imagine the alternative. My
understanding of existentialism would suggest an individual boldly making
whatever
Gilberto,
At 06:50 PM 1/30/2005, you wrote:
Yes, I know. Existentialism and Essentialism are often contrasted. So if Mark
is opposing essentialist morality it suggests or at least raises the
possibility that he is defending some version of existentialism.
Okay. I wasn't sure why you referred
In my personal gestalt, I have often equated Sartre with Warholesque
theatricalism. For existential think, I far prefer Albert Camus and Soren
Kirkegaard.
Well, Camus certainly perfected the art of tragedy.
What about Sartre do you think is pop culturist?
Regards, Mark A. Foster
Gilberto,
At 07:55 AM 1/30/2005, you wrote:
I gave this a little more thought and I think that perhaps we could all agree
that morality can be situational and that what is appropriate or
inappropriate can depend on the concrete specifics of a situation, but I
think that would still see
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:36:14 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 07:55 AM 1/30/2005, you wrote:
I gave this a little more thought and I think that perhaps we could all
agree that morality can be situational and that what is appropriate or
inappropriate can depend
In a message dated 1/30/2005 12:52:43 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That would be my view, yes. However, I assume you believe in contextualizing some sort of timeless (?) essentialist moralitySure. Except I'm not sure I can clearly even imagine the alternative.My
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:09:27 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/30/2005 12:52:43 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That would be my view, yes. However, I assume you believe in
contextualizing some sort of timeless (?) essentialist morality
Gilberto,
At 01:13 AM 1/28/2005, you wrote:
or even trial and error, sure.
Well, thought experiments are not exactly based on trial and error.
I wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by certain kinds of actions. However, off the
top of my head, I can think of many situations in which that would
Gilberto (not dear Gilberto):
If by moral relativism you mean the kind of mentality and attitude that
anything goes and everything is OK, then Baha'is are definitely not
moral relativists. As I said, just read Shoghi Effendi's Advent of
Divine Justice for example. The relativism that we Baha'is
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:41:05 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
I wrote:
What kind of reasoning process?
You replied:
One example would be through some kind of deliberative process where we
think about the consequences of having certain rules and what kind of
See below..
Quoting Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:31:43 -0500, Iskandar Hai
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto (not dear Gilberto):
If by moral relativism you mean the kind of mentality and attitude
that
anything goes and everything is OK, then Baha'is are
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:14:42 -0500, Iskandar Hai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See below..
Quoting Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:31:43 -0500, Iskandar Hai
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto (not dear Gilberto):
If by moral relativism you mean the kind of
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:43:16 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/28/05 8:06:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto (not dear Gilberto):
If by moral relativism you mean the kind of mentality and attitude that
anything goes and
In a message dated 1/28/2005 12:10:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto:It's not a hang-up. I'm perfectly happy to let the matter drop. I justwouldn't want to casually suggest that prophets might lie or commitidolatry.
I do not think a Prophet ever lied. I believe
Susan,
At 10:43 AM 1/28/2005, you wrote:
That's because the definition above is not our understanding of moral
relativism. We understand that morality 'relates' to concrete circumstances,
it isn't just an absolute ideal up in the sky somewhere.
Yes.
Regards, Mark A. Foster
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:17:36 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Susan,
At 10:43 AM 1/28/2005, you wrote:
That's because the definition above is not our understanding of moral
relativism. We understand that morality 'relates' to concrete
circumstances, it isn't just an absolute
G:Alot of emphasis is put on the fact that the Quran was revealed in stages
Know of a certainty that in every Dispensation the light of Divine Revelation hath been vouchsafed unto men in direct proportion to their spiritual capacity... if the Sun of Truth were suddenly to reveal, at the earliest
Gilberto,
At 10:29 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote:
Could you give examples of each to explain how they are different?
Justice is a virtue. It is defined (structurized) by Baha'u'llah, in one sense,
as upheld by reward and punishment:
O people of God! That which traineth the world is Justice, for
Hi, Gilberto,
At 11:24 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote:
So would it be fair to say that the sinlessness is a non-falsifiable
statement? You aren't saying that they conform to some prior moral
principles, but that by definition, beecause they are the Manifestation they
could do no wrong?
Yes, IMO,
Dear Firouz,
I think this is a big challenge Baha'u'llah is inviting people to
produce a verse like what He is revealing.
The verse in the Tablet of Ahmad doesn't appear to me to be an invitation to
produce man-made verses. He is stating that it's impossible for men to come up
with such
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:13:23 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/26/2005 7:25:35 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I DID answer her question in the most reasonable way I know how. If
you don't like that answer I'm not sure how to help you.
And further, it is an allegorical indication that man can never reach the
station of God.
|
| I think this is a big challenge Baha'u'llah is inviting people to
| produce a verse like what He is revealing.
|
|The verse in the Tablet of Ahmad doesn't appear to me to be an
|invitation to produce
Gilberto,
At 06:16 AM 1/27/2005, you wrote:
Ok, then part of the difficulty is that we are using words differently.
Yes.
Whether or not one belches in public is not a moral question.
As I said, I would call etiquette and all low-level social norms folkways.
Norms and values, as I define them,
In a message dated 1/27/2005 1:57:20 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I remember long long time back when I was living in Dubaiwe had a
deepening class about Tablet of Ahmad, our Egyptian teacher explained it
to us this way.
Well, now that I compare it with
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:36:46 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 06:16 AM 1/27/2005, you wrote:
Ok, then part of the difficulty is that we are using words differently.
Yes.
Whether or not one belches in public is not a moral question.
As I said, I would call
Gilberto,
At 06:14 PM 1/27/2005, you wrote:
But what makes one set of laws high-level and another low-level?
It is relative to the norms of that community. Mores are norms which, in a
particular time and place, are punished (formally or informally) more severely
than folkways. A more in one
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:53:07 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
You replied:
I'm speaking imprecisely. I don't think I mean that kind of logic. I mean a
different kind of reasoning process.
Mark:
What kind of reasoning process?
Gilberto:
One example would be
Dear Susan,
I came to this conclusion after reading several online accounts of British activity in the middle east subsequent to WW1. I read that Lawrence of Arabia was deeply involved in the Arab revolt against the Ottoman hegemony instigated by Sharif Hussein bin Ali . Sharif
Hussein had been
Gilberto,
I wrote:
What kind of reasoning process?
You replied:
One example would be through some kind of deliberative process where we think
about the consequences of having certain rules and what kind of society that
would result in.
A thought experiment.
Sure but even apart from language,
Hi Iskandar,
I think you are misunderstanding Gilberto and his intentions. I do not think he is saying that Baha'is don't take morality seriously, so there is no need for an apology. Gilberto is stating the Islamic stance on the issue, which is different from the Baha'i view. I am positive he is
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:57:22 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Iskandar,
I think you are misunderstanding Gilberto and his intentions. I do not
think he is saying that Baha'is don't take morality seriously, so there is
no need for an apology. Gilberto is stating the Islamic
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:49:29 -0500 (EST), Iskandar Hai, M.D.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.
A girl of 8, 9, or 10 years of age who has had her menses is still a girl,
not a woman. From around 13 to about 18-19 years of age, she is called a
teenager. Past nineteen, she can be called a woman (or
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:41:05 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
I wrote:
What kind of reasoning process?
You replied:
One example would be through some kind of deliberative process where we
think about the consequences of having certain rules and what kind of
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:03:37 -0600, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In Islam, that's when a person becomes an adult. What other definition
of woman are you using?
Dear Gilberto,
So do you think it would be okay today if a mature man married and had
intercourse with a ten year old
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:26:59 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/26/2005 2:31:41 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Which social laws? I don't think the Bible or the Quran given minimum
ages for marriage. Like I said elsewhere its not a
In a message dated 1/26/2005 4:39:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is going in circles. I would want to make a distinction betweenthe laws which people make up and the ones which God gives. Iunderstand that Bahais disagree. This is nothing new.
People make laws
In a message dated 1/26/2005 7:25:27 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't think you should talk to me like that. This is part of why Iwould rather use a more neutral example. I have absolutely no interestin marrying a nine-year old girl and as I said in my answer, I have
That is true. However The house of Sa'ud entered into an alliance with
the Wahhabis and subsequent to attaining control of Arabia, they
exported Wahhabism through the funding of religious schools throughout
the middle East. One also might note British encouragement of the sect
as well as by
-
Marriages then were rarely a matter of simple choice
no matter what age you
were, but by all accounts it was a happy marriage.
Dear Susan,
I realise that. I said this because she might not at
all have been unwilling to marry Muhammad, maybe have
even wished for it. It is not usual that
Gilberto,
At 08:01 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote:
The original point was how do you evaluate prophets and think about
sinlessness. I would say that there is a certain minimal core morality which
is more fundamental and you could in principle use that the judge prophets.
Mark seemed to say it was
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:20:03 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
There is, IMO, a difference between virtues, which are divine
structurizations, and morals (norms and values), which are human
structurizations. Through the Will of God (virtues) or through the wills of
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:25:25 -0800, Elaine Crowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That is true. However The house of Sa'ud entered into an alliance with
the Wahhabis and subsequent to attaining control of Arabia, they
exported Wahhabism through the funding of religious schools throughout
the
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:29:01 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark seemed to say it was reversed and that within their dispensation
prophets could do anything and almost by definition it would be correct.
-- Hi Gilberto, I think the idea is based on the following verses of
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:38:28 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 08:01 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote:
The original point was how do you evaluate prophets and think about
sinlessness. I would say that there is a certain minimal core morality
which is more fundamental and
Gilberto addressing Mark:
It seems like you are reading it correctly. I just don't think I would
agree with it. The Quran actually invites people to examine itself for
contradictions. Dares people to try to come up with verses like it. In
other places the Quran also calls itself the Criterion but
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 12:30:04 +0700, Firouz Anaraki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto addressing Mark:
It seems like you are reading it correctly. I just don't think I would
agree with it. The Quran actually invites people to examine itself for
contradictions. Dares people to try to come up
In a message dated 1/26/2005 11:30:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Baha'u'llah also challenges people to come up a verse like what
Baha'u'llah has revealed and goes further and allows them to assist each
other:" O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof
In a message dated 1/26/2005 8:21:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One also might note British encouragement of the sect as well as by
favouring Ibn Sa'ud over the Sharif of Mecca.
Dear Elainna,
Where does your information that the British favoured
Dear Firouz,
I never read that passage that way. I thought He was asking them to come up
with proof they believed in God, not come up with better verses.
warmest, Susan
Dear Susan,
I remember long long time back when I was living in Dubaiwe had a
deepening class about Tablet of Ahmad,
Hi, Susan,
At 09:48 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
In the case of Mormonism there is strong evidence to suggest that on the
global scale they are experiencing the same stagnation as we are:
http://www.cumorah.com/report.htmlhttp://www.cumorah.com/report.html
Yes, I was referring to American
Mark:Personally, I doubt that Mormonism would have similar global appeal as in the U.S. It is, in many ways, the ultimate religion of American romanticism. JS:
And I think for this reason it is surprising that Islam and the Baha'i Faith have grown so fast in the US (Islam recently and Baha'i
Scott,
At 08:40 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
Mark seems to have come into the faith the same way I did, through the
written words of Baha`u'llah. When truth sings in your heart, you are carried
away. Baha`u'llah's words reveal His character. Abdu'l Baha's words reveal
Baha`u'llah's character. That
And I think for this reason it is surprising that Islam and the Baha'i Faith
have grown so fast in the US (Islam recently and Baha'i over the last 50
years).
Not to me. Most of the internal growth (i.e., not due to immigration) in the
States has been among people of color. This paragraph
Hi, Susan,
At 08:11 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
I didn't see any big problem with that book aside from the fact it had never
gone through review.
Gaver imported a lot of popular Baha'isms, urban legends, or
kitab-i-hearsays, into the book. I would need to go back and find them.
However, overall,
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 07:29:38 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 09:25 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
I would probably prefer to discuss this point with an issue that wasn't so
emotionally charged because because it can be sensitive for alot of folks.
But I would say,
In a message dated 1/25/2005 8:37:34 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gaver imported a lot of popular "Baha'isms," urban legends, or
"kitab-i-hearsays," into the book.
Dear Mark,
I suppose at the time I read that book I took those things for granted.
warmest,
In a message dated 1/25/2005 8:33:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
However,
some other things have been much greater concerns to me recently, especially
Ruhi.
Well, if it is any comfort, Baha'u'llah didn't do that.
;-}
Dear Mark.
What you said reminded me of a previous conversation I had on the
relative appeal of groups like the Nation of Islam and the Bahai faith
to African-Americans.
So by comparison, Abdul-Baha wrote:
But I wish to say one thing in order that the blacks may become
grateful to the whites
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:03:26 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark:
Personally, I doubt that Mormonism would have similar global appeal as in
the U.S. It is, in many ways, the ultimate religion of American romanticism.
JS:
And I think for this reason it is surprising that
Susan,
At 08:11 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
Aisha, not Khadija.
Yep. ;-)
I think of circumstances where it might for me. For instance if Baha'u'llah
had authorized anything similiar to the massacre of the Banu Qurayza I doubt
if I could recognize Him as having the remedy we need for this day.
In a way.
my as to date not completely formed thinking goes along the lines that God is Reality.That compared to God some things have no Reality at all. Yet they do have a reality, for example a cat has a certain reality of its own, and when I am hungry it is a reality of its own as well.
But
Gilberto,
At 08:42 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
But if its not a case of abused and if you are just talking about people
getting married at ages atypical for 21st century Kansas, I don't think
that's a moral question.
I think it would clearly be a moral issue to most Americans for an adult to
Susan,
At 08:46 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
Well, if it is any comfort, Baha'u'llah didn't do that. ;-}
I suppose we can all ask Him about it in the next world.
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger. Abbie Hoffman
Personally, I doubt that Mormonism would have similar global appeal as in
the U.S.
Exactly. We are doing much better in Africa and Asia where their figures are
only about a half of million.
It is, in many ways, the ultimate religion of American romanticism.
Which is why I doubt it is
Gilberto,
At 10:09 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
That she was pre-pubescent is an assumption on your part. There are
indications otherwise.
I know the issue is not decided. However, the author of the article you
referenced before on the subject said that, presently, the evidence *did*
support that
and change]
Suppose that a Bahai country interprets the Bahai writings to say that an
arsonist should be burned. So this country makes a law whereby the
punishment of arson is burning, no matter what was set on fire, a car, an
empty warehouse, a house full of people.
In the Bahai faith
Gilberto,
At 10:54 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
It's the individualists who throw off traditional scholarship who are the
extremists.
But isn't that what the 19th-century higher critics were doing - throwing off
traditional scholarship?
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL
Thanks
From: Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:38:51 -0600
James,
At 10:30 AM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
What is the basis of this statement
Are there any current statistics
available that show comparative numbers of Baha'is from year to year?
Such statistics would be interesting.
Dear James,
On the global level, or within the US? US statistics exist and they indicate
we definitely experienced a decline this year. Do you want me to
Janine I would be so as well, unless it was said by someone who I think is speaking with God's authority. Baha'u'llah is someone Who has that authority, for me,G: Yes, alot of these arguments really do just boil down to thatpoint. If you believe the Bahai claims about Bahaullah then
@list.jccc.edu
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: RE: punishment of crimes - was arson.
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:02:03 -0600
Are there any current statistics
available that show comparative numbers of Baha'is from year to year?
Such statistics would be interesting.
Dear James,
On the global
I'm saying that when a 53-year old male marries a 20-30 year old female,
he has married a young woman, and when he marries a female who is
barely 18 he then has married a teenager. When a 53-year old male
marries a female who has just barely tuned 9 lunar years, it is not
accurate to say that he
I do not take all of the comments here about the marriage between Muhammad and Aisha asevidencethat Muhammad was evil or had ill intentions.
As our society changes, there is a need to renew the Revelation of God, which is, after all, written forUS inOUR language based onOUR society.As our
In a message dated 1/25/2005 5:56:38 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why, specifically, was it a violation of the Bab's honor? I
can see
how it was a violation of the wife's honor; it appears she was
simply
passed around like a piece of furniture, none of
The sources indicate that the nikah didn't occur until after puberty.
In Islam, that's when a person becomes an adult. What other definition
of woman are you using?
Peace
Gilberto
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:59:53 -0500 (EST), Iskandar Hai, M.D.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm saying that when a
yep I agree with you Gilberto.
It could be that at a young age this woman recognised
the purity and specialness of the Prophet and was
therefore very willing to marry Him.
Times and habits and way of thinking and mores were
completely different then. Plus, the Prophet was a
very special
In Islam, that's when a person becomes an adult. What other definition
of woman are you using?
Dear Gilberto,
So do you think it would be okay today if a mature man married and had
intercourse with a ten year old girl so long as she had had her menses?
warmest, Susan
Janine:
It could be that at a young age this woman recognised
the purity and specialness of the Prophet and was
therefore very willing to marry Him.
Should the Prophet marry any girl (no matter what age) who would like to get
married to Him?
regards,
Firouz
Hi Mark,
I am a bit confused as how you mean this. Do you mean to say that discussions of this sort assume that there is something called goodness in people, do you mean to say that goodness changes with each new Manifestation, that each new Manifestation, because of the taxonomies He uses
Hi, Janine,
At 07:17 AM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
The problem I see is that various religions have different views on how
things should be handled. all religions except the Bahai faith have priests
and different schools of thought.
Actually, there are many religions which do not have clergy,
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 05:17:28 -0800 (PST), louise mchenry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Janine:
The problem I see is that various religions have different views on how
things should be handled. all religions except the Bahai faith have priests
and different schools of thought.
Gilberto:
I know
Hi, Janine,
At 07:21 AM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
I am a bit confused as how you mean this. Do you mean to say that discussions
of this sort assume that there is something called goodness in people, do you
mean to say that goodness changes with each new Manifestation, that each new
Manifestation,
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:11:22 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I believe that each Bahai has their own version of the Bahai faith.
And it is the love each baha`i has in his heart for Baha`u'llah that keeps it united. The love expressed as trust in Baha`u'llah's laws,
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:33:48 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But that's not even the main issue. The thing I'm having troubleseeing from your perspective is why God would have mandated thepunishment to begin with? Even though I disagree with many of thethings you
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:38:50 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But if "good" is worth calling "good" then shouldn't it be independentof the prophet?
God is the Source of All BOunty. The manifestation is the Revealer of God's Bounty.
I avoid the term Prophet because I
relevant.
L:
My question was: how can religion by itself do this?
Suppose that a Bahai country interprets the Bahai writings to say that an
arsonist should be burned. So this country makes a law whereby the
punishment of arson is burning, no matter what was set on fire, a car, an
empty warehouse
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:05:10 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:53:18 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
History
After Charles Mason Remey's proclamation in 1960 that he was the
second Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, his followers
Mark:I am saying that "goodness" (or "badness") is simply a name to signify what a particular Prophet, group, or ordinary individual regards as being good (or bad).JS:
So are you saying that nothing above and beyond what the Manifestations reveal exists in man's mind, heart, or his environment
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:09:56 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark:
I am saying that goodness (or badness) is simply a name to signify what
a particular Prophet, group, or ordinary individual regards as being good
(or bad).
Do you think this is just your independent opinion or is
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:17:26 -0800 (PST), louise mchenry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yep.
but they are not considered bahais. They call themselves Orthodox Bahais.
Despite that they call themselves Bahai and see themselves as followers of
Baha;u;llah, yet they have violated the covenant, because
Hi, Janine,
At 08:11 AM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
about the Bahai faith: what I feel is that there are different ideas in the
Bahai faith because people are different.
Yes, I think that would be true by definition.
My take is that one idea cannot develop in a different school of thought
leading
In a message dated 1/24/2005 10:40:20 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Didn't the French NSA approve of Remey's claims at the time? Werethere only 200 Bahais in France at the time?
Five of the NSA voted to go with Remey. The Hands sent in a couple representatives and declared
In a message dated 1/24/2005 10:40:20 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Look. All I'm really saying is that it is insulting to cast all sortsof negative aspersions on other religions for being split, when yourown religion has obvious splits. It's like this massive act of
Hi, Gilberto,
At 08:38 AM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
But if good is worth calling good then shouldn't it be independent of the
prophet?
I am not sure how something could be worth calling good. I have not been a
neo-Platonist for about 5 or 6 years, so I don't see *goodness* as a quality
detached
So are you saying that nothing above and beyond what the Manifestations
reveal exists in man's mind, heart, or his environment to manifest signs of
and lessons on, goodness? In other words, God has no interaction with man
outside of the interaction between man and the Manifestation.
Well, I
Hi, Gilberto,
At 02:40 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
Do you think this is just your independent opinion or is it ultimately rooted
in the Bahai faith somehow? I suspect that it probably is common among Bahais
who have thought about ethics and morality a certain way but I would be
interested in your
These stats are 10 years old, but they are still basically accurate:
Catholic 968,000,000
Protestant 395,867,000
Other Christians 275,583,000
Orthodox 217,948,000
Anglicans 70,530,000
http://adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity
Even throwing in other Christians and Anglicans, there
Gilberto,
At 05:29 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
If so perhaps *all* the followers of Bahaullah are declining.
Stagnating, not necessarily declining. Most religions are not growing. Notable
exceptions are some of the branches of Islam, the pentecostal-charismatic
movement, Mormonism, and the
makes a law whereby the punishment of arson is burning, no matter what was set on fire, a car, an empty warehouse, a house full of people. In the Bahai faith, as soon as the UHJ becomes aware of a country where the code of law was influenced by the Bahai laws, I am sure the UHJ would say
Hi, Janine,
At 06:22 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
From where I am sitting, here in Europe, I cannot see that there are even
different groups of Bahais. For me, where I am sitting, every Bahai has their
own take on the Bahai religion, and although some will support some thoughts
some people have
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