Re: tomcat performance/GC with JVMStat's visualgc

[Peter Lin]

you can always try JFluid, which is an experimental VM from sun that
has some cool profiling features.

peter


On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:05:51 -0400, Nandish Rudra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> JProbe is also a nice tool for tracking JVM behaviour. You may want to look
> into it.
> 
> Nandish Rudra
> ECI Conference Call Services, LLC
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rajesh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:08 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: tomcat performance/GC with JVMStat's visualgc
> 
> Hai all
> 
> how to check Tomcat's garbage collectioin with JVMStat's visualgc
> 
> Rajesh
> 
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RE: tomcat performance/GC with JVMStat's visualgc

[Nandish Rudra]

JProbe is also a nice tool for tracking JVM behaviour. You may want to look
into it. 

Nandish Rudra
ECI Conference Call Services, LLC

-Original Message-
From: Rajesh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:08 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: tomcat performance/GC with JVMStat's visualgc 


Hai all

how to check Tomcat's garbage collectioin with JVMStat's visualgc

Rajesh

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RE: tomcat performance/GC with JVMStat's visualgc

[Dale, Matt]

Its quite easy. Download jvmstat and add the bin directory (bat on windows) to your 
path. Run jvmps in a command window to find out the process id of your tomcat, it is 
the one with Bootstrap in it. Then run visualgc with the process id. 

You can also do this remotely by supplying a machine name to jvmps and visualgc. Read 
the instructions for jvmstat and all will become clear.

-Original Message-
From: Rajesh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 August 2004 06:08
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: tomcat performance/GC with JVMStat's visualgc 


Hai all

how to check Tomcat's garbage collectioin with JVMStat's visualgc

Rajesh

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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Daniel Gibby]

I'm sending my JVM stack trace to see if any of you are better at
reading it than I am. ;-)

I'm guessing that you can somehow tell by looking at the stack trace
whether the connections between apache and tomcat are somehow being
held onto or locked waiting for something and not released. Maybe a
database connection is not released? Maybe apache graceful causes the
problem? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks for your help!

apache version 2.0.40
mod_jk 2.0.2
tomcat 4.1.27 and 4.1.30

I've attached the javacore file (I stripped out classloader lines since
they take up the majority of the file) Let me know if you need to see
those.

Daniel Gibby

David Rees wrote:

  Daniel Gibby wrote:
  
  
Tomcat config:


Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups
around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about
this configuration?

  
  
connectionTimeout is defined in milliseconds, not seconds, so that is 60
seconds, not 16 hours.

  
  
Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?

  
  
Could be, or could be that your server is really busy.  When you look at
the server-status through Apache, does it show 255 processes busy as well?

  
  
Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it to
not return'?

  
  
You could either have a deadlock (synchronization issue) in your code, or
an infinite loop.

  
  
I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out where
my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.

  
  
Compress it and post it to the list or put it on a public webserver so we
can take a look.

Cheers

Dave

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RE: Tomcat performance issue?

[Shapira, Yoav]

Hi,
Absolutely.  Peter and I have been preaching this for years now ;)  I'm
glad this has helped you...

Yoav Shapira
Millennium Research Informatics


>-Original Message-
>From: Peter Lin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:17 PM
>To: Tomcat Users List
>Subject: RE: Tomcat performance issue?
>
>
>glad the suggestion helps. I firmly believe in
>profiling code to make sure simple little mistakes
>that appear harmless aren't killing performance.
>
>I'm constantly amazed at how little things improve
>performance. the benefit of using OptimizeIt or any
>other good profiling tool is well worth it. that's my
>biased perspective :)
>
>peter lin
>
>
>--- Allistair Crossley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>> This evening I did the same with JProbe under 360
>> requests as you describe and this led to me gaining
>> a 38% speedup.
>>
>> The main bottleneck I found was some very simple
>> tags I have were calling out.flush() at the end.
>> Thiw was consuming 14 seconds of time to flush 1
>> string from the tag. The tag is called many times
>> within our JSPs because it calls the current skin
>> label.
>>
>> By simply removing the flush call the tag call
>> method time across the load test went down to 2s.
>> Not bad hey. There were other areas which I solved
>> with application scope caching and a bean pool for a
>> 3rd party bean that takes ages to initialise a
>> connection.
>>
>> I am getting there slowly but surely but Yoav I
>> think was right all along and it is the code and you
>> have to profile it and examine those call graphs!!!
>>
>> ADC
>>
>>  -Original Message-
>>  From: Peter Lin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  Sent: Mon 12/04/2004 19:53
>>  To: Tomcat Users List
>>  Cc:
>>  Subject: Re: Tomcat performance issue?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  luckily I have a license of Borland OptimizeIt.
>>
>>  What I do is I start tomcat using OptimizeIt. Then
>> I create a test plan in JMeter. Once tomcat is
>> running, I warm it up by sending it a couple hundred
>> requests to make sure all the pages are compiled.
>>
>>  before the test starts, use OptimizeIt to garbage
>> collect. Once that is done, I start the test and
>> look at the number of threads and size of the heap.
>> If there's a memory leak, either the thread count
>> will increase, or the heap will grow rapidly. Once I
>> see either one, I then switch to the call graph to
>> get a better picture of which methods are getting
>> called. Usually, that is enough to point towards a
>> culprit.
>>
>>  repeat, and rinse as many times as needed until
>> you've squashed all bugs and leaks.
>>
>>  peter lin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Matt Woodings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  I just read your post this morning (I am lurking
>> today as I have a few
>>  issues of my own to clear up :-) ) and I think that
>> is some really good
>>  advice you gave. I do have a question though.
>>
>>  Once you have noticed you have a memory leak, how
>> do you go about locating
>>  it?
>>
>>  Matt
>>
>>
>>  -
>>  Do you Yahoo!?
>>  Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>---
>> QAS Ltd.
>> Developers of QuickAddress Software
>> http://www.qas.com";>www.qas.com
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>> Registered in Australia: No 082 851 474
>>
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RE: Tomcat performance issue?

[Peter Lin]

glad the suggestion helps. I firmly believe in
profiling code to make sure simple little mistakes
that appear harmless aren't killing performance.

I'm constantly amazed at how little things improve
performance. the benefit of using OptimizeIt or any
other good profiling tool is well worth it. that's my
biased perspective :)

peter lin


--- Allistair Crossley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> This evening I did the same with JProbe under 360
> requests as you describe and this led to me gaining
> a 38% speedup.
>  
> The main bottleneck I found was some very simple
> tags I have were calling out.flush() at the end.
> Thiw was consuming 14 seconds of time to flush 1
> string from the tag. The tag is called many times
> within our JSPs because it calls the current skin
> label.
>  
> By simply removing the flush call the tag call
> method time across the load test went down to 2s.
> Not bad hey. There were other areas which I solved
> with application scope caching and a bean pool for a
> 3rd party bean that takes ages to initialise a
> connection.
>  
> I am getting there slowly but surely but Yoav I
> think was right all along and it is the code and you
> have to profile it and examine those call graphs!!!
>  
> ADC
> 
>   -Original Message- 
>   From: Peter Lin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   Sent: Mon 12/04/2004 19:53 
>   To: Tomcat Users List 
>   Cc: 
>   Subject: Re: Tomcat performance issue?
>   
>   
> 
>   
>   luckily I have a license of Borland OptimizeIt.
>   
>   What I do is I start tomcat using OptimizeIt. Then
> I create a test plan in JMeter. Once tomcat is
> running, I warm it up by sending it a couple hundred
> requests to make sure all the pages are compiled.
>   
>   before the test starts, use OptimizeIt to garbage
> collect. Once that is done, I start the test and
> look at the number of threads and size of the heap.
> If there's a memory leak, either the thread count
> will increase, or the heap will grow rapidly. Once I
> see either one, I then switch to the call graph to
> get a better picture of which methods are getting
> called. Usually, that is enough to point towards a
> culprit.
>   
>   repeat, and rinse as many times as needed until
> you've squashed all bugs and leaks.
>   
>   peter lin
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   Matt Woodings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   I just read your post this morning (I am lurking
> today as I have a few
>   issues of my own to clear up :-) ) and I think that
> is some really good
>   advice you gave. I do have a question though.
>   
>   Once you have noticed you have a memory leak, how
> do you go about locating
>   it?
>   
>   Matt
>   
>   
>   -
>   Do you Yahoo!?
>   Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>
---
> QAS Ltd.
> Developers of QuickAddress Software
> http://www.qas.com";>www.qas.com
> Registered in England: No 2582055
> Registered in Australia: No 082 851 474
>
---
> 
> 
> >
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RE: Tomcat performance issue?

[Allistair Crossley]

This evening I did the same with JProbe under 360 requests as you describe and this 
led to me gaining a 38% speedup.
 
The main bottleneck I found was some very simple tags I have were calling out.flush() 
at the end. Thiw was consuming 14 seconds of time to flush 1 string from the tag. The 
tag is called many times within our JSPs because it calls the current skin label.
 
By simply removing the flush call the tag call method time across the load test went 
down to 2s. Not bad hey. There were other areas which I solved with application scope 
caching and a bean pool for a 3rd party bean that takes ages to initialise a 
connection.
 
I am getting there slowly but surely but Yoav I think was right all along and it is 
the code and you have to profile it and examine those call graphs!!!
 
ADC

-Original Message- 
From: Peter Lin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Mon 12/04/2004 19:53 
To: Tomcat Users List 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Tomcat performance issue?




luckily I have a license of Borland OptimizeIt.

What I do is I start tomcat using OptimizeIt. Then I create a test plan in 
JMeter. Once tomcat is running, I warm it up by sending it a couple hundred requests 
to make sure all the pages are compiled.

before the test starts, use OptimizeIt to garbage collect. Once that is done, 
I start the test and look at the number of threads and size of the heap. If there's a 
memory leak, either the thread count will increase, or the heap will grow rapidly. 
Once I see either one, I then switch to the call graph to get a better picture of 
which methods are getting called. Usually, that is enough to point towards a culprit.

repeat, and rinse as many times as needed until you've squashed all bugs and 
leaks.

peter lin




Matt Woodings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just read your post this morning (I am lurking today as I have a few
issues of my own to clear up :-) ) and I think that is some really good
advice you gave. I do have a question though.

Once you have noticed you have a memory leak, how do you go about locating
it?

Matt


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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Peter Lin]

 
luckily I have a license of Borland OptimizeIt.
 
What I do is I start tomcat using OptimizeIt. Then I create a test plan in JMeter. 
Once tomcat is running, I warm it up by sending it a couple hundred requests to make 
sure all the pages are compiled.
 
before the test starts, use OptimizeIt to garbage collect. Once that is done, I start 
the test and look at the number of threads and size of the heap. If there's a memory 
leak, either the thread count will increase, or the heap will grow rapidly. Once I see 
either one, I then switch to the call graph to get a better picture of which methods 
are getting called. Usually, that is enough to point towards a culprit.
 
repeat, and rinse as many times as needed until you've squashed all bugs and leaks.
 
peter lin
 
 


Matt Woodings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just read your post this morning (I am lurking today as I have a few
issues of my own to clear up :-) ) and I think that is some really good
advice you gave. I do have a question though.

Once you have noticed you have a memory leak, how do you go about locating
it?

Matt


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RE: Tomcat performance issue?

[Shapira, Yoav]

Hi,

>Once you have noticed you have a memory leak, how do you go about
locating
>it?

You don't just notice it out of the blue: you typically notice it
because a profiler shows it.  The same profiler shows you where it is.
Noticing and locating is typically one and the same for memory leaks.
It's fixing that's the 2nd step.

Yoav Shapira



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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Matt Woodings]

I just read your post this morning (I am lurking today as I have a few
issues of my own to clear up :-) ) and I think that is some really good
advice you gave.  I do have a question though.

Once you have noticed you have a memory leak, how do you go about locating
it?

Matt
- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Lin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat performance issue?


> From my own experience, this kind of behavior appears when a session isn't
getting timed out for one reason or another.  For example, say you get data
from some remote site using your own Http client libraries that is
multi-threaded. If that thread sits around and the socket it has isn't
explicitly closed, it can prevent tomcat from invalidating the session. this
would create a memory leak which may not be noticeable if you don't get a
lot of load. One easy way to expose this kind of bug is to load test your
webapp before deploying.
>
> Throw the load you get in 16 hrs at tomcat and you'll likely see the
memory leak. In all cases, issues with performance was due to a bug in our
application. egular load testing is the best way to expose these issues
during development.
>
> peter
>
>
>
>
> David Rees <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Daniel Gibby wrote:
> >
> > Tomcat config:
> > > className="org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpConnector"
> > port="8080" minProcessors="5" maxProcessors="255"
> > enableLookups="true" redirectPort="8443"
> > acceptCount="100" debug="0" connectionTimeout="6"/>
> >
> > Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups
> > around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about
> > this configuration?
>
> connectionTimeout is defined in milliseconds, not seconds, so that is 60
> seconds, not 16 hours.
>
> > Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?
>
> Could be, or could be that your server is really busy. When you look at
> the server-status through Apache, does it show 255 processes busy as well?
>
> > Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it to
> > not return'?
>
> You could either have a deadlock (synchronization issue) in your code, or
> an infinite loop.
>
> > I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out where
> > my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.
>
> Compress it and post it to the list or put it on a public webserver so we
> can take a look.
>
> Cheers
>
> Dave
>
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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Peter Lin]

>From my own experience, this kind of behavior appears when a session isn't getting 
>timed out for one reason or another.  For example, say you get data from some remote 
>site using your own Http client libraries that is multi-threaded. If that thread sits 
>around and the socket it has isn't explicitly closed, it can prevent tomcat from 
>invalidating the session. this would create a memory leak which may not be noticeable 
>if you don't get a lot of load. One easy way to expose this kind of bug is to load 
>test your webapp before deploying.
 
Throw the load you get in 16 hrs at tomcat and you'll likely see the memory leak. In 
all cases, issues with performance was due to a bug in our application. egular load 
testing is the best way to expose these issues during development.
 
peter
 
 


David Rees <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Daniel Gibby wrote:
>
> Tomcat config:
> > className="org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpConnector"
> port="8080" minProcessors="5" maxProcessors="255"
> enableLookups="true" redirectPort="8443"
> acceptCount="100" debug="0" connectionTimeout="6"/>
>
> Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups
> around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about
> this configuration?

connectionTimeout is defined in milliseconds, not seconds, so that is 60
seconds, not 16 hours.

> Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?

Could be, or could be that your server is really busy. When you look at
the server-status through Apache, does it show 255 processes busy as well?

> Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it to
> not return'?

You could either have a deadlock (synchronization issue) in your code, or
an infinite loop.

> I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out where
> my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.

Compress it and post it to the list or put it on a public webserver so we
can take a look.

Cheers

Dave

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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[David Rees]

Daniel Gibby wrote:
>
> Tomcat config:
>  className="org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpConnector"
>port="8080" minProcessors="5" maxProcessors="255"
>enableLookups="true" redirectPort="8443"
>acceptCount="100" debug="0" connectionTimeout="6"/>
>
> Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups
> around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about
> this configuration?

connectionTimeout is defined in milliseconds, not seconds, so that is 60
seconds, not 16 hours.

> Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?

Could be, or could be that your server is really busy.  When you look at
the server-status through Apache, does it show 255 processes busy as well?

> Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it to
> not return'?

You could either have a deadlock (synchronization issue) in your code, or
an infinite loop.

> I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out where
> my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.

Compress it and post it to the list or put it on a public webserver so we
can take a look.

Cheers

Dave

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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Daniel Gibby]

255 is as high as apache will go without recompiling. Therefore, it 
wouldn't make a difference if I go higher on the tomcat end either, right?

Trieu, Jason T - CNF wrote:

It could be a bug in your servlet that hangs your connection or you
might actually have a big enough load to max out your number of
concurrent Tomcat threads (maxProcessors).  If it is load, you should
look into increasing your maxProcessors.  Make sure though that you have
enough JVM heap memory (Xmx parm) to handle it or you will run into
OutOfMemory error which is worse than out-of-connections.
Jason

-Original Message-
From: Daniel Gibby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:43 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat performance issue?

I have this same problem. It creeped up without any configuration 
changes on 4.1.27
It doesn't always print this error message out, but the effect is the
same.

 

SEVERE: All threads (75) are currently busy, waiting. Increase
   

maxThreads (75) or check the servlet status
   

My apache config:

Timeouts: connection: 300keep-alive: 300
MPM Name: Prefork
MPM Information: Max Daemons: 255 Threaded: no Forked: yes 
StartServers   8
MinSpareServers5
MaxSpareServers   20
MaxClients   255
MaxRequestsPerChild  1000

Tomcat config:
   
Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups 
around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about 
this configuration?
Why is the connectionTimeout being reached? I think I had set it to a 
really high number because I figured I didn't want anything to ever hit
it.

Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?

Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it to

not return'?
I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out where
my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.

Daniel Gibby

 

"David Rees" wrote:

Like the messages say, all Tomcat threads are busy and you've hit the 
maximum number of threads which can be processed concurrently.  Sounds 
like you've got either a bug in a servlet causing it to not return, or 
your server is simply overloaded.  You can get a stack trace from the 
JVM to help debug this issue pretty easily.

   



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RE: Tomcat performance issue?

[Trieu, Jason T - CNF]

It could be a bug in your servlet that hangs your connection or you
might actually have a big enough load to max out your number of
concurrent Tomcat threads (maxProcessors).  If it is load, you should
look into increasing your maxProcessors.  Make sure though that you have
enough JVM heap memory (Xmx parm) to handle it or you will run into
OutOfMemory error which is worse than out-of-connections.

Jason

-Original Message-
From: Daniel Gibby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:43 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat performance issue?


I have this same problem. It creeped up without any configuration 
changes on 4.1.27
It doesn't always print this error message out, but the effect is the
same.

>SEVERE: All threads (75) are currently busy, waiting. Increase
>> > maxThreads (75) or check the servlet status
>

My apache config:

Timeouts: connection: 300keep-alive: 300
MPM Name: Prefork
MPM Information: Max Daemons: 255 Threaded: no Forked: yes 
StartServers   8
MinSpareServers5
MaxSpareServers   20
MaxClients   255
MaxRequestsPerChild  1000


Tomcat config:


Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups 
around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about 
this configuration?
Why is the connectionTimeout being reached? I think I had set it to a 
really high number because I figured I didn't want anything to ever hit
it.

Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?

Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it to

not return'?
I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out where

my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.

Daniel Gibby

>"David Rees" wrote:
>  
>
>Like the messages say, all Tomcat threads are busy and you've hit the 
>maximum number of threads which can be processed concurrently.  Sounds 
>like you've got either a bug in a servlet causing it to not return, or 
>your server is simply overloaded.  You can get a stack trace from the 
>JVM to help debug this issue pretty easily.
>  
>


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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Daniel Gibby]

I forgot to mention that I have All threads (255) are currently busy, 
not (75) which makes sense.

Daniel Gibby wrote:

I have this same problem. It creeped up without any configuration 
changes on 4.1.27
It doesn't always print this error message out, but the effect is the 
same.

SEVERE: All threads (75) are currently busy, waiting. Increase

> maxThreads (75) or check the servlet status


My apache config:

Timeouts: connection: 300keep-alive: 300
MPM Name: Prefork
MPM Information: Max Daemons: 255 Threaded: no Forked: yes

StartServers   8
MinSpareServers5
MaxSpareServers   20
MaxClients   255
MaxRequestsPerChild  1000

Tomcat config:
   
  port="8080" minProcessors="5" maxProcessors="255"
  enableLookups="true" redirectPort="8443"
  acceptCount="100" debug="0" connectionTimeout="6"/>

Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups 
around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about 
this configuration?
Why is the connectionTimeout being reached? I think I had set it to a 
really high number because I figured I didn't want anything to ever 
hit it.

Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?

Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it 
to not return'?
I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out 
where my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.

Daniel Gibby

"David Rees" wrote:
 

Like the messages say, all Tomcat threads are busy and you've hit the
maximum number of threads which can be processed concurrently.  Sounds
like you've got either a bug in a servlet causing it to not return, or
your server is simply overloaded.  You can get a stack trace from the
JVM to help debug this issue pretty easily.
 



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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Daniel Gibby]

I have this same problem. It creeped up without any configuration 
changes on 4.1.27
It doesn't always print this error message out, but the effect is the same.

SEVERE: All threads (75) are currently busy, waiting. Increase
> maxThreads (75) or check the servlet status

My apache config:

Timeouts: connection: 300keep-alive: 300
MPM Name: Prefork
MPM Information: Max Daemons: 255 Threaded: no Forked: yes

StartServers   8
MinSpareServers5
MaxSpareServers   20
MaxClients   255
MaxRequestsPerChild  1000

Tomcat config:
   
Hey, I just realized something... I think I have been having lockups 
around every 16 hours... 6 seconds! So what does that mean about 
this configuration?
Why is the connectionTimeout being reached? I think I had set it to a 
really high number because I figured I didn't want anything to ever hit it.

Is some servlet not returning content but hanging on to a connection?

Could you explain a little further about 'bug in a servlet causing it to 
not return'?
I have a stack trace, but I don't see how that helps me figure out where 
my problem might be... I'm not sure what exactly to look for.

Daniel Gibby

"David Rees" wrote:
 

Like the messages say, all Tomcat threads are busy and you've hit the
maximum number of threads which can be processed concurrently.  Sounds
like you've got either a bug in a servlet causing it to not return, or
your server is simply overloaded.  You can get a stack trace from the
JVM to help debug this issue pretty easily.
 



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Autoreply: Re: Tomcat performance issue?

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"David Rees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Denise Mangano wrote, On 4/9/2004 10:05 PM:
> >
> > I've tried searching the archives but have come up empty-handed.  A few
> > days ago I received a few complaints that my users hit a certain point
> > in the application and could go no further.  This point was when Apache
> > gives control to Tomcat.  I checked the log and found this.
> >
> > Apr 4, 2004 2:19:43 PM org.apache.tomcat.util.threads.ThreadPool logFull
> > SEVERE: All threads (75) are currently busy, waiting. Increase
> > maxThreads (75) or check the servlet status
> >
> > The only thing that did the trick was restarting Tomcat and Apache.  Any
> > ideas on what these errors mean?
>
> Like the messages say, all Tomcat threads are busy and you've hit the
> maximum number of threads which can be processed concurrently.  Sounds
> like you've got either a bug in a servlet causing it to not return, or
> your server is simply overloaded.  You can get a stack trace from the
> JVM to help debug this issue pretty easily.
>

Also, when running behind Apache, you have need to have at least as many
Tomcat threads as you have Apache children allowed (since each child will be
talking to a single thread).  You should probably increase the maxThreads on
you AJP/1.3 Connector to match what you've configured for MaxChildren in
Apache.  If you expect your loads to come in bursts, then you can configure
maxSpareThreads low to allow Tomcat to discard threads that are freed up by
Apache killing off children.

> -Dave




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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[Bill Barker]

"David Rees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Denise Mangano wrote, On 4/9/2004 10:05 PM:
> >
> > I've tried searching the archives but have come up empty-handed.  A few
> > days ago I received a few complaints that my users hit a certain point
> > in the application and could go no further.  This point was when Apache
> > gives control to Tomcat.  I checked the log and found this.
> >
> > Apr 4, 2004 2:19:43 PM org.apache.tomcat.util.threads.ThreadPool logFull
> > SEVERE: All threads (75) are currently busy, waiting. Increase
> > maxThreads (75) or check the servlet status
> >
> > The only thing that did the trick was restarting Tomcat and Apache.  Any
> > ideas on what these errors mean?
>
> Like the messages say, all Tomcat threads are busy and you've hit the
> maximum number of threads which can be processed concurrently.  Sounds
> like you've got either a bug in a servlet causing it to not return, or
> your server is simply overloaded.  You can get a stack trace from the
> JVM to help debug this issue pretty easily.
>

Also, when running behind Apache, you have need to have at least as many
Tomcat threads as you have Apache children allowed (since each child will be
talking to a single thread).  You should probably increase the maxThreads on
you AJP/1.3 Connector to match what you've configured for MaxChildren in
Apache.  If you expect your loads to come in bursts, then you can configure
maxSpareThreads low to allow Tomcat to discard threads that are freed up by
Apache killing off children.

> -Dave




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Re: Tomcat performance issue?

[David Rees]

Denise Mangano wrote, On 4/9/2004 10:05 PM:
 
I've tried searching the archives but have come up empty-handed.  A few
days ago I received a few complaints that my users hit a certain point
in the application and could go no further.  This point was when Apache
gives control to Tomcat.  I checked the log and found this.
 
Apr 4, 2004 2:19:43 PM org.apache.tomcat.util.threads.ThreadPool logFull
SEVERE: All threads (75) are currently busy, waiting. Increase
maxThreads (75) or check the servlet status
 
The only thing that did the trick was restarting Tomcat and Apache.  Any
ideas on what these errors mean?
Like the messages say, all Tomcat threads are busy and you've hit the 
maximum number of threads which can be processed concurrently.  Sounds 
like you've got either a bug in a servlet causing it to not return, or 
your server is simply overloaded.  You can get a stack trace from the 
JVM to help debug this issue pretty easily.

-Dave

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Re: tomcat performance with 100 webapps

[Adam Hardy]

Pardon my ignorance but how do you share one port between multiple 
instances of tomcat? Are you talking launching tomcat 100 times (100 
JVMs), or are you talking 100 Hosts configured in server.xml?

Adam

On 03/30/2004 05:28 PM Reynir Þór Hübner wrote:
I just wanted to post my info on the subject, even though I dont have 
100 hosts on a single machine.

We run near 60 hosts on one machine, in 10 instances of tomcat. memory 
usage has been the biggest problem as our application use cache:ing alot 
to increase performance. all of those hosts are running fairly complex 
CMS systems. the computer has 2 Xeon CPUs and 4gigs ram  RedHat EAS.

The greatest improvement on our memory problem got fixed when we changed 
the setup of tomcat so that it would not reload contexts and jsp pages. 
The memory leaks that we had been seeing (ever increasing memory usage 
of tomcat) stopped.

But, in my opinion you should not be seeing some memory problems with 
100 hosts (if you have 16g ram). I recomend the usage of several 
instances of tomcat, but that will be on the cost of memory (one 
instance seems to use around 30mb (rather basic setup) of ram, even 
though the profiled usage is alot less), but by doing this you will get 
way better manageability. I dont think I have to point out the obvious 
benefits of having several hosts, but one is restarting services will be 
alot easyer and dealing with all sorts of problems will be easyer.

100 hosts require alot of memory, but everything dependes of course on 
your application and traffic. This machine is taking on something around 
20req/sec average, and the load is (cp from top) "load average: 1,08, 
1,22, 1,24"

But of course cpu power or IO is usually not the bottleneck in 
java-server-applications.

-reynir

Niki Ivanchev wrote:

God save our apps from any memory leaks.
Of course we will test them for this issue. And perform stress testing
20 sounds fair enought. Frankly I don't expect too much traffic per 
e-shop.
Niki

Shapira, Yoav wrote:

Hi,
We have tomcat instances that run ~20 webapps without a problem.  Beyond
that, we haven't tried, but then again that's why we have tools like
JMeter, no? ;)
In large part this will depend on the soundness of the application.
Especially if it's 100 of the same app, because then each memory leak
would be multiplied by 100.
Yoav Shapira
Millennium Research Informatics
 

-Original Message-
From: Niki Ivanchev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:43 AM
To: Tomcat User
Subject: tomcat performance with 100 webapps
Have some one tested Tomcat with more than 100 webapps. For example
e-commrece solution, without many bells and whistles - jsut shopbuilder
and  sopiing cart
Each webapp is based on trubine/velocity/torque. Each webapp using it's
own firebird database.
Can I expect smooth performance on dual xeon with raid controler and
  


lot
 

of RAM (16G) on RedHat EAS?
Niki
Icygen Co.


--
struts 1.1 + tomcat 5.0.16 + java 1.4.2
Linux 2.4.20 Debian
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Re: tomcat performance with 100 webapps

[Reynir Þór Hübner]

Hi,

I just wanted to post my info on the subject, even though I dont have 
100 hosts on a single machine.

We run near 60 hosts on one machine, in 10 instances of tomcat. memory 
usage has been the biggest problem as our application use cache:ing alot 
to increase performance. all of those hosts are running fairly complex 
CMS systems. the computer has 2 Xeon CPUs and 4gigs ram  RedHat EAS.

The greatest improvement on our memory problem got fixed when we changed 
the setup of tomcat so that it would not reload contexts and jsp pages. 
The memory leaks that we had been seeing (ever increasing memory usage 
of tomcat) stopped.

But, in my opinion you should not be seeing some memory problems with 
100 hosts (if you have 16g ram). I recomend the usage of several 
instances of tomcat, but that will be on the cost of memory (one 
instance seems to use around 30mb (rather basic setup) of ram, even 
though the profiled usage is alot less), but by doing this you will get 
way better manageability. I dont think I have to point out the obvious 
benefits of having several hosts, but one is restarting services will be 
alot easyer and dealing with all sorts of problems will be easyer.

100 hosts require alot of memory, but everything dependes of course on 
your application and traffic. This machine is taking on something around 
20req/sec average, and the load is (cp from top) "load average: 1,08, 
1,22, 1,24"

But of course cpu power or IO is usually not the bottleneck in 
java-server-applications.

-reynir

Niki Ivanchev wrote:

God save our apps from any memory leaks.
Of course we will test them for this issue. And perform stress testing
20 sounds fair enought. Frankly I don't expect too much traffic per 
e-shop.
Niki

Shapira, Yoav wrote:

Hi,
We have tomcat instances that run ~20 webapps without a problem.  Beyond
that, we haven't tried, but then again that's why we have tools like
JMeter, no? ;)
In large part this will depend on the soundness of the application.
Especially if it's 100 of the same app, because then each memory leak
would be multiplied by 100.
Yoav Shapira
Millennium Research Informatics
 

-Original Message-
From: Niki Ivanchev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:43 AM
To: Tomcat User
Subject: tomcat performance with 100 webapps
Have some one tested Tomcat with more than 100 webapps. For example
e-commrece solution, without many bells and whistles - jsut shopbuilder
and  sopiing cart
Each webapp is based on trubine/velocity/torque. Each webapp using it's
own firebird database.
Can I expect smooth performance on dual xeon with raid controler and
  
lot
 

of RAM (16G) on RedHat EAS?
Niki
Icygen Co.
-
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intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your 
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Re: tomcat performance with 100 webapps

[Peter Lin]

 
the only way you will know is to stress test it. I would recommend doing a small test 
with 10 webapps and a fair amount of load. I can tell you right now if you're not 
using  SSL/TSL hardware acceleration, that's going to be your bottleneck. 20-25 
concurrent https requests will max out a 2ghz AMD athlon. Once that happens everything 
else slows down and performance degrades rapidly.
 
look at the performance numbers in my article. Maybe Remmy can post his old SSL 
numbers from the benchmarks we ran on tomcat 4.  If your shopping cart is efficient, 
100 webapps won't matter. Ultimately, the concurrent requests across all webapps will 
be your bottleneck. After the SSL, the database will be the next major bottleneck. If 
you're using database sessions to keep track of the shopping cart, use JMeter to 
figure out the maximum concurrent queries for firebird first. hope that helps.
 
peter lin
 


Niki Ivanchev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Have some one tested Tomcat with more than 100 webapps. For example 
e-commrece solution, without many bells and whistles - jsut shopbuilder 
and sopiing cart
Each webapp is based on trubine/velocity/torque. Each webapp using it's 
own firebird database.
Can I expect smooth performance on dual xeon with raid controler and lot 
of RAM (16G) on RedHat EAS?
Niki
Icygen Co.

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.

Re: tomcat performance with 100 webapps

[Remy Maucherat]

Niki Ivanchev wrote:
Have some one tested Tomcat with more than 100 webapps. For example 
e-commrece solution, without many bells and whistles - jsut shopbuilder 
and  sopiing cart
Each webapp is based on trubine/velocity/torque. Each webapp using it's 
own firebird database.
Can I expect smooth performance on dual xeon with raid controler and lot 
of RAM (16G) on RedHat EAS?
I recommend using Tomcat 5, since it will save a significant amount of 
per context resources.

You should also use a global datasource, which would give you a global 
limit on concurrent DB requests. If all webapps use a separate DB, then 
it could lead to resources problems because of too many connections (but 
of course, I haven't tested anything).

--
x
Rémy Maucherat
Developer & Consultant
JBoss Group (Europe) SàRL
x
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Re: tomcat performance with 100 webapps

[Niki Ivanchev]

God save our apps from any memory leaks.
Of course we will test them for this issue. And perform stress testing
20 sounds fair enought. Frankly I don't expect too much traffic per e-shop.
Niki
Shapira, Yoav wrote:

Hi,
We have tomcat instances that run ~20 webapps without a problem.  Beyond
that, we haven't tried, but then again that's why we have tools like
JMeter, no? ;)
In large part this will depend on the soundness of the application.
Especially if it's 100 of the same app, because then each memory leak
would be multiplied by 100.
Yoav Shapira
Millennium Research Informatics
 

-Original Message-
From: Niki Ivanchev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:43 AM
To: Tomcat User
Subject: tomcat performance with 100 webapps
Have some one tested Tomcat with more than 100 webapps. For example
e-commrece solution, without many bells and whistles - jsut shopbuilder
and  sopiing cart
Each webapp is based on trubine/velocity/torque. Each webapp using it's
own firebird database.
Can I expect smooth performance on dual xeon with raid controler and
   

lot
 

of RAM (16G) on RedHat EAS?
Niki
Icygen Co.
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This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged.  This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else.  If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender.  Thank you.

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RE: tomcat performance with 100 webapps

[Shapira, Yoav]

Hi,
We have tomcat instances that run ~20 webapps without a problem.  Beyond
that, we haven't tried, but then again that's why we have tools like
JMeter, no? ;)

In large part this will depend on the soundness of the application.
Especially if it's 100 of the same app, because then each memory leak
would be multiplied by 100.

Yoav Shapira
Millennium Research Informatics


>-Original Message-
>From: Niki Ivanchev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:43 AM
>To: Tomcat User
>Subject: tomcat performance with 100 webapps
>
>Have some one tested Tomcat with more than 100 webapps. For example
>e-commrece solution, without many bells and whistles - jsut shopbuilder
>and  sopiing cart
>Each webapp is based on trubine/velocity/torque. Each webapp using it's
>own firebird database.
>Can I expect smooth performance on dual xeon with raid controler and
lot
>of RAM (16G) on RedHat EAS?
>Niki
>Icygen Co.
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and 
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Re: Tomcat performance

[Peter Lin]

 
well I'm biased, since I'm a commiter on JMeter.  JMeter is a jakarta project and it 
has quite a few features in the latest version.
 
JMeter now supports proxies, cookie management, header management, default parameters, 
ftp protocol, jdbc protocol, java sampler, webservice, soap/xml-rpc, and accesslog 
sampler.
 
anyway, it has lots of features, just look at the jmeter page.
 
peter lin


Philipp Taprogge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi all!

Peter Lin wrote:
> then I will throw major load at it for 48hrs generating a couple million page views.

Just out of curiosity: what is the best way to generate page views for 
such a benchmark? What tools do you use?

Thanks

Phil


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RE: Tomcat performance

[Peter Lin]

doh! typo. that should a big fat NOT.
 
as in I'm NOT the main developer.
 
peter lin


Peter Lin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

well I'm really the main developer. right now sebastian and jordi are far more active 
than I am. I'm responsible for the webservice and accesslog samplers.

I wrote the accesslog sampler to do simulation testing using production access logs. 
it parses common log format and generates requests.

peter ln



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Re: Tomcat performance

[Peter Lin]

 
did you read the performance article on the resources page?  Remy and I compared 
windows, linux and solaris. while it is far from comprehensive, it's better than 
nothing. if someone donates an IBM iSeries, I'll gladly run a ton of benchmarks and 
publish them :)
 
 
peter lin


Pete Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thinking more about people experiences running their bits on different 
os's etc, if they got much better results with a different combination etc.

Pete.


Shapira, Yoav wrote:

> Howdy,
> I'll give my stock opinion: any benchmarks given to you by others are at
> best interesting and at worst misleading, the latter being far more
> likely. There's no such thing as a standard webapp, and you have to
> benchmark your own webapp against your own expected user load.
> 
> Yoav Shapira
> Millennium ChemInformatics
> 
> 
> 
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Pete Stokes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:34 AM
>>To: Tomcat Users List
>>Subject: Tomcat performance
>>
>>Hi all.
>>
>>I am wondering about Tomcat performance on different platforms. Any 1
>>know which is best / figures, running a standard Java webapp, nothing
>>fancy (with JTOpen to an iSeries DB if this makes any difference -
>>looking for 1200 users) ???
>>
>>Tomcat 5.0.18 on
>>
>>Win2k,
>>Linux (Intel desktop / Xeon / AMD64)
>>Sun (Linux / Solaris)
>>
>>Opinions are appreciated !
>>Pete.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>***
> 
> 
> 
>>
>>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> 
> intended
> 
>>solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> 
> addressed.
> 
>>If you have received this email in error please notify the system
> 
> manager.
> 
>>This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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> 
> 
> 
>>
>>For any information on the Quinn Group of Companies please visit :-
>>
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>>
>>
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> This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, 
> and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. 
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> not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not 
> the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer 
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RE: Tomcat performance

[Peter Lin]

 
well I'm really the main developer. right now sebastian and jordi are far more active 
than I am. I'm responsible for the webservice and accesslog samplers.
 
I wrote the accesslog sampler to do simulation testing using production access logs. 
it parses common log format and generates requests.
 
peter ln


"Shapira, Yoav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Howdy,

>Peter Lin wrote:
>> then I will throw major load at it for 48hrs generating a couple
million
>page views.
>
>Just out of curiosity: what is the best way to generate page views for
>such a benchmark? What tools do you use?

JMeter, as he mentioned. He's also its main developer, and it's a great
tool -- I use it all the time.

Yoav Shapira



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Re: Tomcat performance

[Pete Stokes]

Thinking more about people experiences running their bits on different 
os's etc, if they got much better results with a different combination etc.

Pete.

Shapira, Yoav wrote:

Howdy,
I'll give my stock opinion: any benchmarks given to you by others are at
best interesting and at worst misleading, the latter being far more
likely.  There's no such thing as a standard webapp, and you have to
benchmark your own webapp against your own expected user load.
Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics


-Original Message-
From: Pete Stokes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:34 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Tomcat performance
Hi all.

I am wondering about Tomcat performance on different platforms. Any 1
know which is best / figures, running a standard Java webapp, nothing
fancy (with JTOpen to an iSeries DB if this makes any difference -
looking for 1200 users) ???
Tomcat 5.0.18 on

Win2k,
Linux (Intel desktop / Xeon / AMD64)
Sun (Linux / Solaris)
Opinions are appreciated !
Pete.


***



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RE: Tomcat performance

[Shapira, Yoav]

Howdy,

>Peter Lin wrote:
>> then I will throw major load at it for 48hrs generating a couple
million
>page views.
>
>Just out of curiosity: what is the best way to generate page views for
>such a benchmark? What tools do you use?

JMeter, as he mentioned.  He's also its main developer, and it's a great
tool -- I use it all the time.

Yoav Shapira



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Re: Tomcat performance

[Philipp Taprogge]

Hi all!

Peter Lin wrote:
then I will throw major load at it for 48hrs generating a couple million page views.
Just out of curiosity: what is the best way to generate page views for 
such a benchmark? What tools do you use?

Thanks

		Phil

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Re: Tomcat performance

[Peter Lin]

 
I'm planning on running a new set of benchmarks in a week or two if you can wait that 
long. JMeter is getting ready to release 2.0 with quite a few enhancements, so I plan 
on load testing the latest Tomcat5 with JMeter 2.0.
 
my plan of attack right now is to update my old addressbook webapp with an application 
context, update/delete features and caching. then I will throw major load at it for 
48hrs generating a couple million page views.
 
as usual, I will publish the results when I am done on the mailing list.
 
peter lin


Pete Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi all.

I am wondering about Tomcat performance on different platforms. Any 1 
know which is best / figures, running a standard Java webapp, nothing 
fancy (with JTOpen to an iSeries DB if this makes any difference - 
looking for 1200 users) ???

Tomcat 5.0.18 on

Win2k,
Linux (Intel desktop / Xeon / AMD64)
Sun (Linux / Solaris)

Opinions are appreciated !
Pete.




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RE: Tomcat performance

[Shapira, Yoav]

Howdy,
I'll give my stock opinion: any benchmarks given to you by others are at
best interesting and at worst misleading, the latter being far more
likely.  There's no such thing as a standard webapp, and you have to
benchmark your own webapp against your own expected user load.

Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics


>-Original Message-
>From: Pete Stokes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:34 AM
>To: Tomcat Users List
>Subject: Tomcat performance
>
>Hi all.
>
>I am wondering about Tomcat performance on different platforms. Any 1
>know which is best / figures, running a standard Java webapp, nothing
>fancy (with JTOpen to an iSeries DB if this makes any difference -
>looking for 1200 users) ???
>
>Tomcat 5.0.18 on
>
>Win2k,
>Linux (Intel desktop / Xeon / AMD64)
>Sun (Linux / Solaris)
>
>Opinions are appreciated !
>Pete.
>
>
>
>
>***

>
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended
>solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed.
>If you have received this email in error please notify the system
manager.
>This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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>***

>
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>
>http://www.quinn-group.com
>
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Tomcat performance

[FRANCOIS Dufour]

on xp the curent process whit tomcat is  process   28
uc   3 to 
10%
   dedicated charge   213 mo



[EMAIL PROTECTED]
administrateur http://entre-nous.qc.tc




From: Pete Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Tomcat Users List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tomcat performance
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:33:40 +
Hi all.

I am wondering about Tomcat performance on different platforms. Any 1 know 
which is best / figures, running a standard Java webapp, nothing fancy 
(with JTOpen to an iSeries DB if this makes any difference - looking for 
1200 users) ???

Tomcat 5.0.18 on

Win2k,
Linux (Intel desktop / Xeon / AMD64)
Sun (Linux / Solaris)
Opinions are appreciated !
Pete.


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Re: Tomcat performance on Windows versus Linux

[Oscar Carrillo]

I am about to setup Tomcat under a new Linux 2.6 kernel with 2 Athlon MP
processors. Since scheduling, threading, and SMP have been much improved
in the new kernel I wonder if it will add to performance.

I don't have anything to test the new setup with, but if anyone has good
ideas (and by good, I mean "easy"), as I haven't done any profiling, etc.

Oscar
http://daydream.stanford.edu/tomcat/install_web_services.html

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Sean Dockery wrote:

> Thanks, Tim, for the even handed response.
> 
> I'm not looking for a business case to choose one or the other, however; it
> is certain that our customers will be deploying our application on both
> Linux and Windows (and even Solaris).  I'm just looking to find out whether
> or not OS service (TCP/IP stacks, threads, file I/O, etc...) implementation
> differences between Linux and Windows have a significant impact on
> performance and thus should be weighed accordingly.
> 
> I received a response in email from Peter Lin in which he details his
> experience (which was very helpful; thank you, Peter).  I've read Peter's
> article about performance tuning and a few other white papers as well, but I
> haven't really seen anything in the past that focused on OS differences and
> how those differences might affect the recommended approach to profiling and
> tuning.
> 
> My conclusions from my readings so far:  Slow java code (i.e.: algorithms)
> will be slow on any platform; change the implementation to make it faster.
> Configurable behaviour dependent upon OS services (TCP/IP stacks, threads,
> file I/O, etc...) should be tuned for the platform on which the application
> will live.
> 
> PS:  I was sad to learn that the Tomcat Performance Handbook publishing date
> would be postponed.  I would be thrilled if either you or Peter could tell
> me that the book will see a printer's press anytime soon.
> 
> PPS:  Is there a wiki for this stuff anywhere?
> 
> "Tim Funk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [I hate saying this since its rather very much like flambait but...]
> >
> > If its worth anything, I haven't had enough load on any of our apps to
> know
> > whether Linux or Windows is better. Instead, look at:
> > *** - Maintenance - If your a windows shop - stay windows ***
> > - Debugging - I think troubleshooting is easier on *nix systems (YMMV)
> > - Comfort - If your comfortable with unix concepts - linux might be easier
> > than windows
> >
> > -Tim
> >
> > Sean Dockery wrote:
> >
> > > I am planning to profile a web application on Windows XP (my development
> > > platform).  I am curious as to whether or not different components in
> Tomcat
> > > and the JVM will behave differently (in a relative comparison) on Linux
> > > (production platform) than Windows.
> > >
> > > For example, I have had a person tell me that threads under Linux are
> more
> > > performant than threads under Windows--leading to the corollary that web
> > > applications under Linux are more performant than web applications under
> > > Windows on the same hardware.  My guess is that this claim is based upon
> the
> > > supposition that thread/context switches under Linux are faster than
> under
> > > Windows.  I find the claim rather dubious because I've never seen data
> to
> > > support the claim, but doubt is not certainty.
> > >
> > > Is there any evidence that this claim and other component performance
> > > differences between the Windows and Linux platform exist and are
> significant
> > > enough to throw my performance measurements out the "window".  :-)
> > >
> > > My concern is that I'll profile the application under Windows and tune
> it,
> > > but then find that my gains aren't as significant or maybe even
> worthless
> > > under Linux.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
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Re: Tomcat performance on Windows versus Linux

[Sean Dockery]

"David Rees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> Not enough difference to make it a deciding factor between the two
> platforms.  IMO, Tim's criteria are spot on when deciding what platform to
> deploy on.  Personally, I prefer Unix as I find it easier to setup and
> administer.  Of course, the majority of my experience with Tomcat is on
> Unix, and not on Windows.

That's fine.  I never disagreed with Tim's reasons to choose one platform
over another.  But, as I have already responded, I am not choosing a
platform on which to deploy my application; so, arguments as to which
platform is better are moot.

> If you haven't looked already, have a look at the Volano benchmarks
> (google for it) for some numbers on the scalability and performance of
> different JVM, but note that those numbers won't necessarily reflect the
> performance of YOUR application running on Tomcat.

Thanks for this tidbit.  It is still very early in the process, but
scalability of JVMs is definitely of interest to me.




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Re: Tomcat performance on Windows versus Linux

[David Rees]

On Mon, December 15, 2003 at 9:42 am, Sean Dockery wrote:
> "Tim Funk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message:
>> [I hate saying this since its rather very much like flambait
>> but...]
>>
>> If its worth anything, I haven't had enough load on any of our apps
>> to know whether Linux or Windows is better. Instead, look at: ***
>> - Maintenance - If your a windows shop - stay windows *** -
>> Debugging - I think troubleshooting is easier on *nix systems
>> (YMMV) - Comfort - If your comfortable with unix concepts - linux
>> might be easier than windows
>
> Thanks, Tim, for the even handed response.
>
> I'm not looking for a business case to choose one or the other,
> however; it is certain that our customers will be deploying our
> application on both Linux and Windows (and even Solaris). I'm just
> looking to find out whether or not OS service (TCP/IP stacks,
> threads, file I/O, etc...) implementation differences between Linux
> and Windows have a significant impact on performance and thus should
> be weighed accordingly.

Not enough difference to make it a deciding factor between the two
platforms.  IMO, Tim's criteria are spot on when deciding what platform to
deploy on.  Personally, I prefer Unix as I find it easier to setup and
administer.  Of course, the majority of my experience with Tomcat is on
Unix, and not on Windows.

If you haven't looked already, have a look at the Volano benchmarks
(google for it) for some numbers on the scalability and performance of
different JVM, but note that those numbers won't necessarily reflect the
performance of YOUR application running on Tomcat.

> My conclusions from my readings so far: Slow java code (i.e.:
> algorithms) will be slow on any platform; change the implementation
> to make it faster. Configurable behaviour dependent upon OS services
> (TCP/IP stacks, threads, file I/O, etc...) should be tuned for the
> platform on which the application will live.

I think you've got the idea.

-Dave


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Re: Tomcat performance on Windows versus Linux

[Sean Dockery]

Thanks, Tim, for the even handed response.

I'm not looking for a business case to choose one or the other, however; it
is certain that our customers will be deploying our application on both
Linux and Windows (and even Solaris).  I'm just looking to find out whether
or not OS service (TCP/IP stacks, threads, file I/O, etc...) implementation
differences between Linux and Windows have a significant impact on
performance and thus should be weighed accordingly.

I received a response in email from Peter Lin in which he details his
experience (which was very helpful; thank you, Peter).  I've read Peter's
article about performance tuning and a few other white papers as well, but I
haven't really seen anything in the past that focused on OS differences and
how those differences might affect the recommended approach to profiling and
tuning.

My conclusions from my readings so far:  Slow java code (i.e.: algorithms)
will be slow on any platform; change the implementation to make it faster.
Configurable behaviour dependent upon OS services (TCP/IP stacks, threads,
file I/O, etc...) should be tuned for the platform on which the application
will live.

PS:  I was sad to learn that the Tomcat Performance Handbook publishing date
would be postponed.  I would be thrilled if either you or Peter could tell
me that the book will see a printer's press anytime soon.

PPS:  Is there a wiki for this stuff anywhere?

"Tim Funk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [I hate saying this since its rather very much like flambait but...]
>
> If its worth anything, I haven't had enough load on any of our apps to
know
> whether Linux or Windows is better. Instead, look at:
> *** - Maintenance - If your a windows shop - stay windows ***
> - Debugging - I think troubleshooting is easier on *nix systems (YMMV)
> - Comfort - If your comfortable with unix concepts - linux might be easier
> than windows
>
> -Tim
>
> Sean Dockery wrote:
>
> > I am planning to profile a web application on Windows XP (my development
> > platform).  I am curious as to whether or not different components in
Tomcat
> > and the JVM will behave differently (in a relative comparison) on Linux
> > (production platform) than Windows.
> >
> > For example, I have had a person tell me that threads under Linux are
more
> > performant than threads under Windows--leading to the corollary that web
> > applications under Linux are more performant than web applications under
> > Windows on the same hardware.  My guess is that this claim is based upon
the
> > supposition that thread/context switches under Linux are faster than
under
> > Windows.  I find the claim rather dubious because I've never seen data
to
> > support the claim, but doubt is not certainty.
> >
> > Is there any evidence that this claim and other component performance
> > differences between the Windows and Linux platform exist and are
significant
> > enough to throw my performance measurements out the "window".  :-)
> >
> > My concern is that I'll profile the application under Windows and tune
it,
> > but then find that my gains aren't as significant or maybe even
worthless
> > under Linux.




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Re: Tomcat performance on Windows versus Linux

[Tim Funk]

[I hate saying this since its rather very much like flambait but...]

If its worth anything, I haven't had enough load on any of our apps to know 
whether Linux or Windows is better. Instead, look at:
*** - Maintenance - If your a windows shop - stay windows ***
- Debugging - I think troubleshooting is easier on *nix systems (YMMV)
- Comfort - If your comfortable with unix concepts - linux might be easier 
than windows

-Tim

Sean Dockery wrote:

I am planning to profile a web application on Windows XP (my development
platform).  I am curious as to whether or not different components in Tomcat
and the JVM will behave differently (in a relative comparison) on Linux
(production platform) than Windows.
For example, I have had a person tell me that threads under Linux are more
performant than threads under Windows--leading to the corollary that web
applications under Linux are more performant than web applications under
Windows on the same hardware.  My guess is that this claim is based upon the
supposition that thread/context switches under Linux are faster than under
Windows.  I find the claim rather dubious because I've never seen data to
support the claim, but doubt is not certainty.
Is there any evidence that this claim and other component performance
differences between the Windows and Linux platform exist and are significant
enough to throw my performance measurements out the "window".  :-)
My concern is that I'll profile the application under Windows and tune it,
but then find that my gains aren't as significant or maybe even worthless
under Linux.


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RE: Tomcat performance issues with W2k - SP4

[Shapira, Yoav]

Howdy,
Ask Microsoft.

Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics


>-Original Message-
>From: Wade Chandler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:37 AM
>To: 'Tomcat Users List'
>Subject: RE: Tomcat performance issues with W2k - SP4
>
>Tomcat isn't the only application.  IIS suffers as well.  Are you using
>Server or Advanced Server?  There are some major problems with Advanced
>Server after installing the patch.  I think you should ask MS about
>this.  Also check with your VM manufacturer.  We have some ISAPI
>applications that run in IIS that have suffered as well.  We are
working
>with MS currently to try and figure this out.
>
>Wade
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Benito Garcia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:03 AM
>To: >
>Subject: Tomcat performance issues with W2k - SP4
>
>
>Hello.
>
>I have Tomcat 4.0.4 in a  Windows 2000 SP3  ( and a Oracle DataBase
>) working fine and with good performance.
>
>When installing the Service Pack 4 in the Windows 2000, all
continue
>working OK, but wit a great loss of performance.
>
>If I uninstall the SP4, the performance remains degraded. I need
>re-install Windows 2000 - SP3  in order to get good performance again.
>
>I'm a little bit confused...
>
>Tanks in advance.
>
>Benito.
>
>
>
>
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>
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RE: Tomcat performance issues with W2k - SP4

[Wade Chandler]

Tomcat isn't the only application.  IIS suffers as well.  Are you using
Server or Advanced Server?  There are some major problems with Advanced
Server after installing the patch.  I think you should ask MS about
this.  Also check with your VM manufacturer.  We have some ISAPI
applications that run in IIS that have suffered as well.  We are working
with MS currently to try and figure this out.

Wade

-Original Message-
From: Benito Garcia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:03 AM
To: >
Subject: Tomcat performance issues with W2k - SP4


Hello.

I have Tomcat 4.0.4 in a  Windows 2000 SP3  ( and a Oracle DataBase
) working fine and with good performance.

When installing the Service Pack 4 in the Windows 2000, all continue
working OK, but wit a great loss of performance.

If I uninstall the SP4, the performance remains degraded. I need
re-install Windows 2000 - SP3  in order to get good performance again.

I'm a little bit confused...

Tanks in advance.

Benito.




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Re: Tomcat performance issues with W2k - SP4

[Antony Paul]

My machine too have this problem. Any solutions. I am using JDK 1.4.1 ,
Tomcat 4.1.27 and Oracle 8i.
- Original Message -
From: "Benito Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ">" 
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: Tomcat performance issues with W2k - SP4


Hello.

I have Tomcat 4.0.4 in a  Windows 2000 SP3  ( and a Oracle DataBase )
working fine and with good performance.

When installing the Service Pack 4 in the Windows 2000, all continue
working OK, but wit a great loss of performance.

If I uninstall the SP4, the performance remains degraded. I need
re-install Windows 2000 - SP3  in order to get good performance again.

I'm a little bit confused...

Tanks in advance.

Benito.




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RE: Tomcat Performance Questions

[Shapira, Yoav]

Howdy,
Is there a way you could possibly not hijack other subjects?  If you
have a question that's not related to a thread, don't post it in that
thread.  The answer to your question is yes:
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/config/host.html

Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics


>-Original Message-
>From: Laxmikanth M.S. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 9:26 AM
>To: Tomcat Users List
>Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Questions
>
>Hi Shapira,
>Is there way to host multiple sites in Tomcat without using apache
>thanks
>Laxmikanth
>
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:Shapira, Yoav [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent:Friday, February 14, 2003 7:53 PM
>> To:  Tomcat Users List
>> Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Questions
>>
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> >Just wanted to find out what the list's experience is with Tomcat
>> versus
>> >Apache ?  Why is one preferred over the other ?
>>
>> Depends on your situation.  People with lots of static files
frequently
>> put Apache in front to handle the static files and delegate
servlet/JSP
>> requests to tomcat.  I personally prefer a standalone tomat.
>>
>> >Is Tomcat used in a production site or just for development ?
>>
>> Used in many production sites.  Unfortunately due to the legal
realities
>> in many companies of people on this list, you will not be able to get
a
>> good list of companies using tomcat in production.
>>
>> >I've been arguing the case for Tomcat on an internal project esp.
since
>> >there are no static pages and the system is using JSP/Java.
>>
>> Then tomcat is probably your choice.  If you write you app to the
>> servlet specification, you can easily compare tomcat with other
>> spec-compliant containers for performance and reliability.
>>
>> >Just don't have any hard qualitative data.
>>
>> I don't think there IS such a thing as "hard qualitative data."
>> Qualitative is kind of like subjective in that way, when applied to
>> server choice and performance data ;)
>>
>> Yoav Shapira
>> Millennium ChemInformatics
>>
>>
>>
>> This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business
>> communication, and may contain information that is confidential,
>> proprietary and/or privileged.  This e-mail is intended only for the
>> individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied,
>> printed, disclosed or used by anyone else.  If you are not the(an)
>> intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your
>> computer system and notify the sender.  Thank you.
>>
>>
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>confidential / privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee or
>addressees. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, you
may
>not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should
>destroy
>this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
>immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet email
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RE: Tomcat Performance Questions

[Laxmikanth M.S.]

Hi Shapira,
Is there way to host multiple sites in Tomcat without using apache
thanks
Laxmikanth



> -Original Message-
> From: Shapira, Yoav [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:53 PM
> To:   Tomcat Users List
> Subject:  RE: Tomcat Performance Questions
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> >Just wanted to find out what the list's experience is with Tomcat
> versus
> >Apache ?  Why is one preferred over the other ?
> 
> Depends on your situation.  People with lots of static files frequently
> put Apache in front to handle the static files and delegate servlet/JSP
> requests to tomcat.  I personally prefer a standalone tomat.
> 
> >Is Tomcat used in a production site or just for development ?
> 
> Used in many production sites.  Unfortunately due to the legal realities
> in many companies of people on this list, you will not be able to get a
> good list of companies using tomcat in production.
> 
> >I've been arguing the case for Tomcat on an internal project esp. since
> >there are no static pages and the system is using JSP/Java. 
> 
> Then tomcat is probably your choice.  If you write you app to the
> servlet specification, you can easily compare tomcat with other
> spec-compliant containers for performance and reliability.
> 
> >Just don't have any hard qualitative data.
> 
> I don't think there IS such a thing as "hard qualitative data."
> Qualitative is kind of like subjective in that way, when applied to
> server choice and performance data ;)
> 
> Yoav Shapira
> Millennium ChemInformatics
> 
> 
> 
> This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business
> communication, and may contain information that is confidential,
> proprietary and/or privileged.  This e-mail is intended only for the
> individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied,
> printed, disclosed or used by anyone else.  If you are not the(an)
> intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your
> computer system and notify the sender.  Thank you.
> 
> 
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RE: Tomcat Performance Questions

[Shapira, Yoav]

Howdy,

>Just wanted to find out what the list's experience is with Tomcat
versus
>Apache ?  Why is one preferred over the other ?

Depends on your situation.  People with lots of static files frequently
put Apache in front to handle the static files and delegate servlet/JSP
requests to tomcat.  I personally prefer a standalone tomat.

>Is Tomcat used in a production site or just for development ?

Used in many production sites.  Unfortunately due to the legal realities
in many companies of people on this list, you will not be able to get a
good list of companies using tomcat in production.

>I've been arguing the case for Tomcat on an internal project esp. since
>there are no static pages and the system is using JSP/Java.

Then tomcat is probably your choice.  If you write you app to the
servlet specification, you can easily compare tomcat with other
spec-compliant containers for performance and reliability.

>Just don't have any hard qualitative data.

I don't think there IS such a thing as "hard qualitative data."
Qualitative is kind of like subjective in that way, when applied to
server choice and performance data ;)

Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics



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Re: Tomcat Performance Measuring

[Bill Barker]

TC 5.x has this (accesable via JMX).  I don't know if it will get
back-ported to the 4.1 branch.  However, as Peter said, it is a pretty
simple Filter:

public class MyTimingFilter implements Filter {

  public MyTimingFilter() {
  }

  public void init(FilterConfig conf){
  }

  public void destroy() {
  }

  public void doFilter(ServletRequest req, ServletResponse res, FilterChain
chain)
 throws IOException, ServletException {
 long start = System.currentTimeMillis();
 chain.doFilter(req, res);
 long end = System.currentTimeMillis();
 // Implement something here to record the times.
  }
}

"Garrett Dangerfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I've looked through the documentation I could find, and I looked through
> the source for AccessLogValve and I didn't see the option for what I'm
> looking for.
>
> I'm looking for getting a measurement of "page duration" (the time,
> preferrably in milliseconds, between when the server originally receives
> the first byte of a request and the time it sends the last byte of the
> response).
>
> What I'm trying to do is monitor the server load/response time back to
> the users, particularly by time of day.
>
> I've seen lots of test clients that do this, but I want to monitor my
> actual production system to see how it's doing.
>
> Thank you,
> Garrett.




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Re: Tomcat Performance Measuring

[Peter Lin]

a simple way to do this is to replace the
AccessLogValve wit your own, then use a filter to kick
off the timer.

if you don't want the performance elapse time in the
accesslog, then you can just use a filter and not
bother with accesslogvalve.

peter

--- Garrett Dangerfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've looked through the documentation I could find,
> and I looked through 
> the source for AccessLogValve and I didn't see the
> option for what I'm 
> looking for.
> 
> I'm looking for getting a measurement of "page
> duration" (the time, 
> preferrably in milliseconds, between when the server
> originally receives 
> the first byte of a request and the time it sends
> the last byte of the 
> response).
> 
> What I'm trying to do is monitor the server
> load/response time back to 
> the users, particularly by time of day.
> 
> I've seen lots of test clients that do this, but I
> want to monitor my 
> actual production system to see how it's doing.
> 
> Thank you,
> Garrett.
> 
> 
>
-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 


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RE: Tomcat Performance Measuring

[Jacob Hookom]

There is an article at javaworld on filters that accomplish this, otherwise
head over to opensymphony.com to download the filter itself.

-Bocaj

| -Original Message-
| From: p niemandt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:11 AM
| To: Tomcat Users List
| Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Measuring
| 
| There is some stuff on filters for doing this on the web: do a google,
| but the basic idea is you write a filter that filters the request, get
| the current time, dispatches the request, filter the response, work out
| the difference, and return to the browser ...
| 
| hth,
| paul
| 
| On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 04:39, Garrett Dangerfield wrote:
| > I've looked through the documentation I could find, and I looked through
| > the source for AccessLogValve and I didn't see the option for what I'm
| > looking for.
| >
| > I'm looking for getting a measurement of "page duration" (the time,
| > preferrably in milliseconds, between when the server originally receives
| > the first byte of a request and the time it sends the last byte of the
| > response).
| >
| > What I'm trying to do is monitor the server load/response time back to
| > the users, particularly by time of day.
| >
| > I've seen lots of test clients that do this, but I want to monitor my
| > actual production system to see how it's doing.
| >
| > Thank you,
| > Garrett.
| >
| >
| > -
| > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| --
| p niemandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| 
| 
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Re: Tomcat Performance Measuring

[p niemandt]

There is some stuff on filters for doing this on the web: do a google,
but the basic idea is you write a filter that filters the request, get
the current time, dispatches the request, filter the response, work out
the difference, and return to the browser ... 

hth,
paul

On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 04:39, Garrett Dangerfield wrote:
> I've looked through the documentation I could find, and I looked through 
> the source for AccessLogValve and I didn't see the option for what I'm 
> looking for.
> 
> I'm looking for getting a measurement of "page duration" (the time, 
> preferrably in milliseconds, between when the server originally receives 
> the first byte of a request and the time it sends the last byte of the 
> response).
> 
> What I'm trying to do is monitor the server load/response time back to 
> the users, particularly by time of day.
> 
> I've seen lots of test clients that do this, but I want to monitor my 
> actual production system to see how it's doing.
> 
> Thank you,
> Garrett.
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- 
p niemandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Peter Lin]

 
The plan remy and I had was to make all of it available, source, binaries, sample data 
and so on.  Let me run that by the editors and see if it's cool for me to release the 
test webapp early.  the webapp itself is simple, but the tools I wrote to generate the 
test plans, test data and so on are useful. when appropriate, we've tried to include 
as much of the why.  for example, to illustrate the impact of normalized/complex data 
model, I ran benchmarks with different dataset sizes to show how it impacts 
performance. I also tried to go into why one would use a flat data model vs a 
normalized one.
 
Most of it leads back to functional requirements and educating management about how 
features impact design, which have real and measurable impact on performance.
 
peter lin
 
 Will Hartung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> From: "Peter Lin" 
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

> 9. tool for generating jmeter test plan from tomcat access logs

What a great idea, that never occured to me (I haven't looked at the access
log valve much, can it include POST information?

> I have tried to provide as much as I can and hopefully
> when it's all done, people will find it useful. I'll
> let remy speak for himself :)

That list looks really good and hits a lot of issues that most folks are
doing. My only hope is that you're putting a lot of WHY into your text, not
just HOW.

Regards,

Will Hartung
([EMAIL PROTECTED])




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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Will Hartung]

> From: "Peter Lin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

> 9. tool for generating jmeter test plan from tomcat access logs

What a great idea, that never occured to me (I haven't looked at the access
log valve much, can it include POST information?

> I have tried to provide as much as I can and hopefully
> when it's all done, people will find it useful. I'll
> let remy speak for himself :)

That list looks really good and hits a lot of issues that most folks are
doing. My only hope is that you're putting a lot of WHY into your text, not
just HOW.

Regards,

Will Hartung
([EMAIL PROTECTED])




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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Peter Lin]

There's a link to it on the tomcat resources page.
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/resources.html


Here's a general list of what the book will contain.

1. setting performance requirements
2. building test plans
3. vm tuning options with benchmark results
4. performance consideration for data model, data
access
5. linux and solaris
6. sun and ibm vm
7. sample webapp (addressbook and recipe site)
8. jdbc benchmarks for oracle
9. tool for generating jmeter test plan from tomcat
access logs
10. tool for generating random data for the
adddressbook for benchmarking purposes
11. concrete examples of how to handle streams,
strings and so on.
12. SAX vs DOM performance (since the webapp uses XML
so readers don't have to install a database)
13. tips and tricks for tuning performance
14. SSL performance
15. XML hardware acceleration

I have tried to provide as much as I can and hopefully
when it's all done, people will find it useful. I'll
let remy speak for himself :)

peter lin


--- Bill Barker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> "Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote in message
>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Peter,
> >
> > I also look forward to the book and have the same
> questions that Sean has.
> > Also,
> > 1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)?
> Currently, clustering should be supported in TC 5.x.
> 
> > 2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM
> to use (i.e. IBM,
> > JRocket)?
> > 3. Performance monitoring using JMX?
> TC 5.x currently has these out the ying-yang ;-). 
> Some of them have even
> been migrated to the 4.1 branch (cvs HEAD, not
> current release).
> 
> > 4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the
> OS should have for
> Tomcat
> Well, on Solaris you will crash and die if you don't
> include the
> "recommendend patches".  Can't say much about other
> O/Ss.
> 


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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Bill Barker]

"Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Peter,
>
> I also look forward to the book and have the same questions that Sean has.
> Also,
> 1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)?
Currently, clustering should be supported in TC 5.x.

> 2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM to use (i.e. IBM,
> JRocket)?
> 3. Performance monitoring using JMX?
TC 5.x currently has these out the ying-yang ;-).  Some of them have even
been migrated to the 4.1 branch (cvs HEAD, not current release).

> 4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the OS should have for
Tomcat
Well, on Solaris you will crash and die if you don't include the
"recommendend patches".  Can't say much about other O/Ss.

>
> Many Thanks,
> Tony
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:40 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
>
>
> I look forward to getting a copy of your book.
>
> What will be the book's title?  Who will be your publishing company?  What
> is the scheduled release date?
>
> At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an
> >example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in
> >performance.
> >
> >peter lin
> >
> >-
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Sean Dockery
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Certified Java Web Component Developer
> Certified Delphi Programmer
> SBD Consultants
> http://www.sbdconsultants.com
>
>
>
> -
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>
>




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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Bill Barker]

"Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hi All,
>
> I am looking at Tomcat for production and seeing some things that make me
> question its use for production. I believe what Jakarta group is doing is
a
> great thing for all of us looking for cheaper alternatives but there is
may
> be a serious issue to using Tomcat. I have seen and now read concern about
> Tomcat's performance. I found an interesting tidbit in a newsgroup about
> Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks were
> done in 2001 and are out of date but even today I still hear of concerns
> regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a
"reference
> implementation only". The links are as follows:
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=performance+vs+tomcat+weblogic+websphere&h
>
l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=HOEFIONAHHKFEFENBMNOAEPPCBAA.rsanford%40nol
> imitsystems.com&rnum=4
>
> http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html
>

If you actually read this page, then you will see that they tested against
TC 3.1.  I don't even think that this was the most current release in 2001.
TC 4.1 and even 3.3 run circles around 3.1 in terms of performance.  This
data is hopelessly out of date (and like John implied, probably was when it
was first published).

I don't seem to have it here, but at one point I had a link showing that
Tomcat was very competitive with commercial servers.  I'll look to see if I
can find it tomorrow.  Of course, as someone else pointed out, the only
benchmark that counts is yours ;-).

>
>
> If anyone knows of some more up to date information regarding this issue
> please let me know. I would really appreciate the feedback!
>




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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Jacob Kjome]

Here's the post by Remy where he posted a sample chapter and pointed to a 
URL to pre-order

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-user&m=104254235126023&w=2

Jake

At 04:00 PM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Peter,

I also look forward to the book and have the same questions that Sean has.
Also,
1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)?
2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM to use (i.e. IBM,
JRocket)?
3. Performance monitoring using JMX?
4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the OS should have for Tomcat

Many Thanks,
Tony

-Original Message-
From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:40 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns


I look forward to getting a copy of your book.

What will be the book's title?  Who will be your publishing company?  What
is the scheduled release date?

At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote:

>Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an
>example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in
>performance.
>
>peter lin
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sean Dockery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Certified Java Web Component Developer
Certified Delphi Programmer
SBD Consultants
http://www.sbdconsultants.com



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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Turner, John]

I believe it's Wrox, due out this spring.  Wrox also has a new entry in it's
handbook series coming out this month that is devoted to Tomcat security,
both with Tomcat itself and applications that use Tomcat.

John


-Original Message-
From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:40 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns


I look forward to getting a copy of your book.

What will be the book's title?  Who will be your publishing company?  What 
is the scheduled release date?

At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote:

>Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an
>example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in performance.
>
>peter lin
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sean Dockery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Certified Java Web Component Developer
Certified Delphi Programmer
SBD Consultants
http://www.sbdconsultants.com



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Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
 

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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Anecito, Anthony (HQP)]

Peter,

I also look forward to the book and have the same questions that Sean has.
Also,
1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)?
2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM to use (i.e. IBM,
JRocket)?
3. Performance monitoring using JMX?
4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the OS should have for Tomcat

Many Thanks,
Tony

-Original Message-
From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:40 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns


I look forward to getting a copy of your book.

What will be the book's title?  Who will be your publishing company?  What 
is the scheduled release date?

At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote:

>Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an
>example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in
>performance.
>
>peter lin
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sean Dockery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Certified Java Web Component Developer
Certified Delphi Programmer
SBD Consultants
http://www.sbdconsultants.com



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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Sean Dockery]

I look forward to getting a copy of your book.

What will be the book's title?  Who will be your publishing company?  What 
is the scheduled release date?

At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote:

Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an
example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in
performance.

peter lin

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Sean Dockery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Certified Java Web Component Developer
Certified Delphi Programmer
SBD Consultants
http://www.sbdconsultants.com



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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Chanan Braunstein]

Yet another performance page:
http://webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletReport/index.html

Chanan Braunstein
knovel Corp.
Web Development Manager
607-648-4770 x672
http://www.knovel.com


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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Peter Lin]

I'll just add one more tidbit into the conversation. 
The biggest bottleneck in most dynamic sites is the
data access layer.  In the benchmarks I ran recently,
getting 16-20K of data from oracle will take a minimum
of 200ms.

when you compare this to the time tomcat spends doing
other work, it becomes obvious that more than 50% of
the CPU time is getting data. The only situation where
page markup is slow is using XML with complex schema.

Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an
example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in
performance.


peter lin




--- Will Hartung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From: "Turner, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
> 
> 
> > 1.  Orion is a "competitor" to Tomcat making
> benchmarks from them
> > automatically suspect (at the very least
> biased)...that URL is 2 years
> > old...massive changes have been made to Tomcat
> since
> 
> I'm with John on this one. Not to slight Orion, but
> everyone knows
> benchmarks are meaningless, unless they're YOUR
> benchmarks.
> 
> But think very hard about your statement here. Think
> about what the issue
> is.
> 
> Here you have an application that you are thinking
> of or have already
> written. You write it to the best within your
> abilities and you FOLLOW THE
> PLATFORM SPEC.
> 
> Now, it comes down to deployment, tweaking, and
> performance.
> 
> So, you take your application and you benchmark it
> using whatever tools you
> are willing write/buy/download.
> 
> If your application provides you with acceptable
> performance, you're done.
> 
> But here's the real treat. If it's NOT, then drop it
> on any of several
> containers (Orion, Resin, Tomcat, Jetty, Sun ONE,
> JRun, Weblogic, Oracle,
> IBM...and I'm missing some).
> 
> Now benchmark it again...is it better? Is it worse?
> 
> Do that a couple of times and stand back and bask in
> the glow when it
> hits...had you developed your application in
> ANYTHING else, this would not
> be an option. If you wrote your app using any other
> technology, PHP, Perl,
> ASP, .NET, WebObjects, Zope, etc. then when your
> application was finished
> and you wanted to deploy it only to discover you
> were unhappy, you find you
> had no recourse.
> 
> With any other methodology you would need to look
> for more hardware or
> clustering or rewriting. All of those can be
> expensive and complicated (and
> I'm not saying the having to buy licenses for some
> of these other containers
> will not be expensive, as they can be).
> 
> This is the real power of what Tomcat has to offer.
> If it doesn't meet your
> production needs, then something else might, and you
> have the flexibility to
> choose that option. You can say "Tomcat sucks,
> forget it, I'm leaving" and
> move on.
> 
> The portability of WebApps is getting better with
> every release of the
> specification and the containers. This is why if you
> follow my posts here, I
> almost always bring up portability because I think
> that it's extermely
> important and fundamental to the platform, it's why
> I like that Tomcat is
> the reference implementation so that I can be better
> assured that were
> striving to compliance with the spec.
> 
> Now, of course, the spec is vague enough and has
> gray areas that can make
> porting difficult, and I wish Tomcat were a bit more
> strict on things, but
> portability is real, it's possible, and it can be
> less painful than you
> think. And I think we all should send a big Thank
> You to the Tomcat team,
> Sun and the spec writers for pushing this effort
> forward, and tell the
> platform providers that portability is a real
> concern to us as developers.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Will Hartung
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 


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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Turner, John]

Tell your peers to vent some of that gas if they are basing their
"rumblings" on data that's 2 years old. :)

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Anecito, Anthony (HQP) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:27 PM
> To: 'Shapira, Yoav'; Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
> 
> 
> Hi Shapira,
> 
> Many thanks for the reply. I agree with your list below but 
> am looking for
> some simple benchmarks to start with. Also, a previous 
> response to this
> posting by John Turner indicated a tuning book that may 
> resolve some of the
> concerns by my peers about performance and I look forward to 
> reading the
> book and trying some of its suggestions myself.
> 
> Again, I am not trying cause a "Holy War" but just looking 
> for some help. I
> really do believe in what is being done by Jakarta group but 
> want to quell
> some rumblings by my peers.
> 
> Many Thanks,
> Tony
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:09 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> >Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks
> were
> >done in 2001 and are out of date 
> 
> Very out of date.  Referring to a previous (3.x) generation of Tomcat,
> which is much slower than the current (4.1.x) implementation.
> 
> I haven't used Orion, but looking at their front page
> (http://www.orionserver.com/) I see a couple of things 
> relevant to this
> discussion:
> 
> - Current release of Orion is a full J2EE server.  Tomcat isn't and
> doesn't try to be.
> - Current release of Orion supports the Servlet 2.2 (and the "Public
> Draft") of Servlet 2.3 standards.  That is too funny to even 
> comment on.
> - Current release of Orion is $1500 per physical server for commercial
> use.   Not Weblogic-level pricing at least ;)
> 
> Their benchmark page
> (http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html)
> Claims "One of the main goals for the Orion Application 
> Server has been
> to outperform everything else on the market".  Very nice goal.  Why
> haven't they bothered to update their benchmarks in a long time?
> 
> >but even today I still hear of concerns
> >regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a
> >"reference
> >implementation only". 
> 
> Your peers are not up to date on this particular question.  
> Tomcat is a
> reference implementation in the sense that it strives to implement the
> servlet and JSP specifications as closely and strictly as possible.
> However, it adds many features above and beyond the 
> specification.  And
> being a "reference implementation" does not necessarily mean a slow
> implementation.
> 
> Like the Orion benchmark page says, and the several 
> discussions per year
> we have on this list all conclude, it comes down to:
> - Establishing the required performance level for your application
> - Creating stress tests to simulate real stress 
> - Running the stress tests with your application on various containers
> - Tweaking / tuning whatever possible
> - Repeat until satisfied.
> 
> Personally, and I can't share the actual numbers due to legal
> restrictions in my company, we've benchmarked our app with extensive
> tuning on Orion, Resin, and Jetty and found Tomcat to be superior.
> 
> Yoav Shapira
> Millennium ChemInformatics
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Will Hartung]

> From: "Turner, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:01 AM
> Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns


> 1.  Orion is a "competitor" to Tomcat making benchmarks from them
> automatically suspect (at the very least biased)...that URL is 2 years
> old...massive changes have been made to Tomcat since

I'm with John on this one. Not to slight Orion, but everyone knows
benchmarks are meaningless, unless they're YOUR benchmarks.

But think very hard about your statement here. Think about what the issue
is.

Here you have an application that you are thinking of or have already
written. You write it to the best within your abilities and you FOLLOW THE
PLATFORM SPEC.

Now, it comes down to deployment, tweaking, and performance.

So, you take your application and you benchmark it using whatever tools you
are willing write/buy/download.

If your application provides you with acceptable performance, you're done.

But here's the real treat. If it's NOT, then drop it on any of several
containers (Orion, Resin, Tomcat, Jetty, Sun ONE, JRun, Weblogic, Oracle,
IBM...and I'm missing some).

Now benchmark it again...is it better? Is it worse?

Do that a couple of times and stand back and bask in the glow when it
hits...had you developed your application in ANYTHING else, this would not
be an option. If you wrote your app using any other technology, PHP, Perl,
ASP, .NET, WebObjects, Zope, etc. then when your application was finished
and you wanted to deploy it only to discover you were unhappy, you find you
had no recourse.

With any other methodology you would need to look for more hardware or
clustering or rewriting. All of those can be expensive and complicated (and
I'm not saying the having to buy licenses for some of these other containers
will not be expensive, as they can be).

This is the real power of what Tomcat has to offer. If it doesn't meet your
production needs, then something else might, and you have the flexibility to
choose that option. You can say "Tomcat sucks, forget it, I'm leaving" and
move on.

The portability of WebApps is getting better with every release of the
specification and the containers. This is why if you follow my posts here, I
almost always bring up portability because I think that it's extermely
important and fundamental to the platform, it's why I like that Tomcat is
the reference implementation so that I can be better assured that were
striving to compliance with the spec.

Now, of course, the spec is vague enough and has gray areas that can make
porting difficult, and I wish Tomcat were a bit more strict on things, but
portability is real, it's possible, and it can be less painful than you
think. And I think we all should send a big Thank You to the Tomcat team,
Sun and the spec writers for pushing this effort forward, and tell the
platform providers that portability is a real concern to us as developers.

Regards,

Will Hartung
([EMAIL PROTECTED])




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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Anecito, Anthony (HQP)]

Hi Shapira,

Many thanks for the reply. I agree with your list below but am looking for
some simple benchmarks to start with. Also, a previous response to this
posting by John Turner indicated a tuning book that may resolve some of the
concerns by my peers about performance and I look forward to reading the
book and trying some of its suggestions myself.

Again, I am not trying cause a "Holy War" but just looking for some help. I
really do believe in what is being done by Jakarta group but want to quell
some rumblings by my peers.

Many Thanks,
Tony

-Original Message-
From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:09 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns


Howdy,

>Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks
were
>done in 2001 and are out of date 

Very out of date.  Referring to a previous (3.x) generation of Tomcat,
which is much slower than the current (4.1.x) implementation.

I haven't used Orion, but looking at their front page
(http://www.orionserver.com/) I see a couple of things relevant to this
discussion:

- Current release of Orion is a full J2EE server.  Tomcat isn't and
doesn't try to be.
- Current release of Orion supports the Servlet 2.2 (and the "Public
Draft") of Servlet 2.3 standards.  That is too funny to even comment on.
- Current release of Orion is $1500 per physical server for commercial
use.   Not Weblogic-level pricing at least ;)

Their benchmark page
(http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html)
Claims "One of the main goals for the Orion Application Server has been
to outperform everything else on the market".  Very nice goal.  Why
haven't they bothered to update their benchmarks in a long time?

>but even today I still hear of concerns
>regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a
>"reference
>implementation only". 

Your peers are not up to date on this particular question.  Tomcat is a
reference implementation in the sense that it strives to implement the
servlet and JSP specifications as closely and strictly as possible.
However, it adds many features above and beyond the specification.  And
being a "reference implementation" does not necessarily mean a slow
implementation.

Like the Orion benchmark page says, and the several discussions per year
we have on this list all conclude, it comes down to:
- Establishing the required performance level for your application
- Creating stress tests to simulate real stress 
- Running the stress tests with your application on various containers
- Tweaking / tuning whatever possible
- Repeat until satisfied.

Personally, and I can't share the actual numbers due to legal
restrictions in my company, we've benchmarked our app with extensive
tuning on Orion, Resin, and Jetty and found Tomcat to be superior.

Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics

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Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Peter Lin]

I've been running a ton of benchmarks the last 3 weeks
for the Tomcat Performance book with Remy.
General questions like that are very hard to answer.
Most performance issues are the result of bad design
and poor administration.

If some one is telling you "tomcat can't perform."
they need to back it up with numbers. I'm assuming
this is for an existing site, so you should have some
web access logs to look at.  If you're asking, "Can
tomcat handle 1000 requests/second?" I would say it
depends on the hardware, setup and the page. If it's a
static page, then I would say depends on the hardware.
But here's the catch.  How many of those requests are
for images? and how many page views does that equal?

I can gaurantee that unless your Yahoo who gets
1.5billion page views a day, you're not going to get
1000 page views a second. Based on the recent
presentation at PHPCon by a yahoo staff member, their
average pageview per second per machine is around 4.
They also have 4500 servers, so again be specific
about what kinds of apps, the response threshold and
peak loads.

I know there are some major sites using Tomcat, though
many aren't allowed to acknowledge publicly.

I hope that helps. by the way, most of the benchmarks
out there comparing performance of servlet containers
are flawed and synthetic. In my own test with tomcat
4.1.12 with Orion's old jsp test page, Tomcat was
faster than orion 1.5.3.  It's very easy to write test
pages that makes one server appear faster than
another.


peter lin


--- "Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am looking at Tomcat for production and seeing
> some things that make me
> question its use for production. I believe what
> Jakarta group is doing is a
> great thing for all of us looking for cheaper
> alternatives but there is may
> be a serious issue to using Tomcat. I have seen and
> now read concern about
> Tomcat's performance. I found an interesting tidbit
> in a newsgroup about
> Tomcat performance and a reference to some
> benchmarks. The benchmarks were
> done in 2001 and are out of date but even today I
> still hear of concerns
> regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are
> saying it is a "reference
> implementation only". The links are as follows:
> 
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=performance+vs+tomcat+weblogic+websphere&h
>
l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=HOEFIONAHHKFEFENBMNOAEPPCBAA.rsanford%40nol
> imitsystems.com&rnum=4
> 
> http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows of some more up to date information
> regarding this issue
> please let me know. I would really appreciate the
> feedback!
> 


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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Shapira, Yoav]

Howdy,

>Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks
were
>done in 2001 and are out of date 

Very out of date.  Referring to a previous (3.x) generation of Tomcat,
which is much slower than the current (4.1.x) implementation.

I haven't used Orion, but looking at their front page
(http://www.orionserver.com/) I see a couple of things relevant to this
discussion:

- Current release of Orion is a full J2EE server.  Tomcat isn't and
doesn't try to be.
- Current release of Orion supports the Servlet 2.2 (and the "Public
Draft") of Servlet 2.3 standards.  That is too funny to even comment on.
- Current release of Orion is $1500 per physical server for commercial
use.   Not Weblogic-level pricing at least ;)

Their benchmark page
(http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html)
Claims "One of the main goals for the Orion Application Server has been
to outperform everything else on the market".  Very nice goal.  Why
haven't they bothered to update their benchmarks in a long time?

>but even today I still hear of concerns
>regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a
>"reference
>implementation only". 

Your peers are not up to date on this particular question.  Tomcat is a
reference implementation in the sense that it strives to implement the
servlet and JSP specifications as closely and strictly as possible.
However, it adds many features above and beyond the specification.  And
being a "reference implementation" does not necessarily mean a slow
implementation.

Like the Orion benchmark page says, and the several discussions per year
we have on this list all conclude, it comes down to:
- Establishing the required performance level for your application
- Creating stress tests to simulate real stress 
- Running the stress tests with your application on various containers
- Tweaking / tuning whatever possible
- Repeat until satisfied.

Personally, and I can't share the actual numbers due to legal
restrictions in my company, we've benchmarked our app with extensive
tuning on Orion, Resin, and Jetty and found Tomcat to be superior.

Yoav Shapira
Millennium ChemInformatics

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RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns

[Turner, John]

Well, this is probably a holy war, but:

1.  Orion is a "competitor" to Tomcat making benchmarks from them
automatically suspect (at the very least biased)...that URL is 2 years
old...massive changes have been made to Tomcat since

2.  I have a server right now that has 20 distinct instances of Tomcat on
it, is serving a fairly sustained rate of 500kbps-1.2Mbps with several
hundreds of open connections.  About 1.3 million hits a month, but hits are
misleading.  CPU load (dual P3-1.2) is averaging 31%.  4GB of RAM, memory
used averages about 2.2GB.  Red Hat 7.2, Tomcat 3.1.

So, based on my experience with a server running an ancient version of
Tomcat, I would say Tomcat is just fine, given a correct configuration.

That said, Remy and Peter Lin have a Tomcat performance tuning book due out
this spring, so from my point of view, performance concerns with Tomcat are
the least of my problems.  But that's me.  My bosses are happy, that's all I
need to know. ;)

I think the traffic on this list bears out that, by and large, performance
gains (or problems) are a result of application architecture, not the
application doing the serving.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Anecito, Anthony (HQP) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:50 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: Tomcat Performance Concerns
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I am looking at Tomcat for production and seeing some things 
> that make me
> question its use for production. I believe what Jakarta group 
> is doing is a
> great thing for all of us looking for cheaper alternatives 
> but there is may
> be a serious issue to using Tomcat. I have seen and now read 
> concern about
> Tomcat's performance. I found an interesting tidbit in a 
> newsgroup about
> Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The 
> benchmarks were
> done in 2001 and are out of date but even today I still hear 
> of concerns
> regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it 
> is a "reference
> implementation only". The links are as follows:
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=performance+vs+tomcat+weblog
> ic+websphere&h
> l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=HOEFIONAHHKFEFENBMNOAEPPCBAA.
> rsanford%40nol
> imitsystems.com&rnum=4
> 
> http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows of some more up to date information regarding 
> this issue
> please let me know. I would really appreciate the feedback!
> 

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RE: Tomcat performance problems after a while

[Dmitry Letin]

It will not have. I have the same problems with tomcat 4.0.4 and 4.1.10

-Original Message-
From: Kwok Peng Tuck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:18 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat performance problems after a while

Consider moving to tomcat 4, it is faster than tomcat 3. I believe
tomcat 4 was redesigned for better performance. Also maybe there is some
code segement in the jsp that is eating up a lot of time, so maybe you
could get someone (if you're not the author of the page) to check it out.

Rafael Angarita wrote:

>My webserver is stopping  answering requests or answers too slowly
> after a while running.
>If  a http request is sent  to tomcat directly it's answered
> quickly but the same request to apache takes a lot of time to be
> answered (request a .jsp file).
>If  the tomcat process is  stopped and started again (the apache is
> not stopped), the requests to apache are answered quickly.
>It looks like something is happening inside the java process that
> produces a poor performance after a while, but I have no clue, how to
> look inside the java, it could be a configuration issue or  an
> application issue  but all  I  can see  is not helpful to establish
> the main reason
>Any suggestion?
>The environment:
>- Solaris 8
>- Apache 1.3.26
>- tomcat 3.2.4
>- java 1.2
>- TheadPool Max = 600
>
>Thanks is advance,
>



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Re: Tomcat performance problems after a while

[Bill Barker]

Well, half right :-).

The 3.2.x line is known to have memory leaks.  Upgrading to Tomcat 3.3.1 is
probably enough.  For web-apps that don't require the Servlet-2.3/JSP-1.2
features, it is usually at least as fast as TC 4.0.x.  TC 4.1.x has
optimizations in the JSP compiler that are unlikely to be back-ported to the
3.3 line, so heavy JSP sites will win here.

As always, your mileage may very depending on what your web-app actually
does.  There is no such thing as one-size-fits-all.

"Kwok Peng Tuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Consider moving to tomcat 4, it is faster than tomcat 3. I believe
> tomcat 4 was redesigned for better performance. Also maybe there is some
> code segement in the jsp that is eating up a lot of time, so maybe you
> could get someone (if you're not the author of the page) to check it out.
>
> Rafael Angarita wrote:
>
> >My webserver is stopping  answering requests or answers too slowly
> > after a while running.
> >If  a http request is sent  to tomcat directly it's answered
> > quickly but the same request to apache takes a lot of time to be
> > answered (request a .jsp file).
> >If  the tomcat process is  stopped and started again (the apache is
> > not stopped), the requests to apache are answered quickly.
> >It looks like something is happening inside the java process that
> > produces a poor performance after a while, but I have no clue, how to
> > look inside the java, it could be a configuration issue or  an
> > application issue  but all  I  can see  is not helpful to establish
> > the main reason
> >Any suggestion?
> >The environment:
> >- Solaris 8
> >- Apache 1.3.26
> >- tomcat 3.2.4
> >- java 1.2
> >- TheadPool Max = 600
> >
> >Thanks is advance,
> >





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Re: Tomcat performance problems after a while

[Kwok Peng Tuck]

Consider moving to tomcat 4, it is faster than tomcat 3. I believe 
tomcat 4 was redesigned for better performance. Also maybe there is some 
code segement in the jsp that is eating up a lot of time, so maybe you 
could get someone (if you're not the author of the page) to check it out.

Rafael Angarita wrote:

>My webserver is stopping  answering requests or answers too slowly 
> after a while running.
>If  a http request is sent  to tomcat directly it's answered 
> quickly but the same request to apache takes a lot of time to be 
> answered (request a .jsp file).
>If  the tomcat process is  stopped and started again (the apache is 
> not stopped), the requests to apache are answered quickly.
>It looks like something is happening inside the java process that 
> produces a poor performance after a while, but I have no clue, how to 
> look inside the java, it could be a configuration issue or  an 
> application issue  but all  I  can see  is not helpful to establish 
> the main reason
>Any suggestion? 
>The environment:
>- Solaris 8
>- Apache 1.3.26
>- tomcat 3.2.4
>- java 1.2
>- TheadPool Max = 600
>
>Thanks is advance,
>



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Re: tomcat performance and load capability

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Michael Locasto wrote:

> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:58:23 -0400
> From: Michael Locasto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Tomcat Users List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Tomcat Users List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: tomcat performance and load capability
>
>
> >
> > - Our provider has uttered that running it on two machines (Solaris),
> > one containing the apache web server, the other server hosting tomcat
> > would be the way to do it. Since only a few popup's are HTML and all
> > other pages have to be handled by Tomcat anyway (I would say more than
> > 80% off all request are for JSP's), I am concerned if it really is a
> > good idea to have apache forwarding all pages to a different computer.
> > Since we HAVE to use our providers shared MySql, the database server was
> > not part of my performance consideration.
>
> having apache handle static content isn't a bad idea anyway.
>
> > - Which version of Tomcat is recommended (4.0.4 or 4.1.8)?
>
> 4.0.4 is the current "production quality" release, but the 4.1.x (4.1.9
> was just released) releases will probably give you better performance, as
> well as running with the jdk1.4. Many folks on this list have reported
> good things while running 4.1.x
>

Among other things, 4.1.x includes a completely rewritten JSP page
compiler.  One of the primary concerns was improving the performance of
the generated code for a JSP page, especially for pages that use lots of
custom tags (where 8x to 10x performance improvements have been observed).

That being said, there are many other critical success factors, including
proper configuration (75 just happens to be the default maximum number of
threads on the HTTP connector -- is that coincidental?) to which OS/JVM
combination you are running (the maximum simultaneous thread counts for
different combinations vary widely) to how fast your database accesses
run.  Performance tuning is almost always going to be very dependent on
the particular mix of technologies and behavior in *your* application.

> If you are concerned with relatively heavy load, you may wish to consider
> multiple Tomcat instances.
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>
>

Craig


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Re: tomcat performance and load capability

[Michael Locasto]

>
> - Our provider has uttered that running it on two machines (Solaris),
> one containing the apache web server, the other server hosting tomcat
> would be the way to do it. Since only a few popup's are HTML and all
> other pages have to be handled by Tomcat anyway (I would say more than
> 80% off all request are for JSP's), I am concerned if it really is a
> good idea to have apache forwarding all pages to a different computer.
> Since we HAVE to use our providers shared MySql, the database server was
> not part of my performance consideration.

having apache handle static content isn't a bad idea anyway.

> - Which version of Tomcat is recommended (4.0.4 or 4.1.8)?

4.0.4 is the current "production quality" release, but the 4.1.x (4.1.9
was just released) releases will probably give you better performance, as
well as running with the jdk1.4. Many folks on this list have reported
good things while running 4.1.x

If you are concerned with relatively heavy load, you may wish to consider
multiple Tomcat instances.

Regards,
Michael




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RE: tomcat performance and load capability

[Wills, Mike N. (TC)]

We have one website running under Windows NT that gets 10,000 hits a month.
And another that got 5,000 hits last month. Both are on the same tomcat 3.2
server.

-Original Message-
From: michael wimmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:42 PM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: AW: tomcat performance and load capability


Hi Mike,

I can't correct you, since my last post made it obvious that I am new to
both, tomcat and JSP. My point is, that it is not clear to me where high
loads start and low loads end. Maybe the subject was misleading, I meant
'possibly relative high loads for tomcat'. If you think that tomcat is
not capable of handling that type of project I described, thanks for the
information. (that was my intention in the first place, now there is
still time left to evaluate alternatives like Orion, JRun or Resin).

Regards,

Michael

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Wills, Mike N. (TC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Gesendet: Montag, 12. August 2002 23:30
> An: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Betreff: RE: tomcat performance and load capability
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Tomcat designed for low loads not
> heavy
> loads? I think you may need to look into a commercial product.
Bealogic
> and
> IBM Websphere I hear are good ones.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: michael wimmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:25 PM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Subject: tomcat performance and load capability
> 
> 
> hi all,
> 
> we are trying to migrate our development, at least partually, from
> coldfusion to jsp. Our first project is about to start and we are now
a
> little bit concerned about the performance.
> 
> It is a simple promotion, consisting of 6 JSP pages with access to a
> MySql database. DB connectivity is implemented with mm.mysql driver
and
> protomatter for connection pooling.
> 
> Since the the project will be promoted via radio spots, we estimate up
> two 30.000 hits per day with possibly extreme peaks after the spots
have
> been broadcasted.
> 
> I used JMeter for testing and I came up with the insight that tomcat
has
> problems if I start more than 75 concurrent threads. (e. q. 100 users,
> going for two rounds ended up with maybe half as many entries in the
> database as there were supposed to be). Increasing the 'maxProcessors'
> parameter for the connector did not solve the problem, tomcat (version
> 4.1.8) still stopped at 75 threads only viewing now the higher number
in
> the error message 'servlet status'. This problem did not occur when I
> ran the same project in the resin 2.1.4 container.
> 
> My questions are:
> - Is Tomcat capable of that load? (Especially for the peaks, I am not
> concerned about the overall load).
> 
> - Our provider has uttered that running it on two machines (Solaris),
> one containing the apache web server, the other server hosting tomcat
> would be the way to do it. Since only a few popup's are HTML and all
> other pages have to be handled by Tomcat anyway (I would say more than
> 80% off all request are for JSP's), I am concerned if it really is a
> good idea to have apache forwarding all pages to a different computer.
> Since we HAVE to use our providers shared MySql, the database server
was
> not part of my performance consideration.
> 
> - Which version of Tomcat is recommended (4.0.4 or 4.1.8)?
> 
> - Which JDK (1.3 or 1.4) works best with Tomcat.
> 
> - Any hints / tips for optimizing the configuration would be highly
> appreciated.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Michael Wimmer
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:tomcat-user-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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RE: tomcat performance and load capability

[Wills, Mike N. (TC)]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Tomcat designed for low loads not heavy
loads? I think you may need to look into a commercial product. Bealogic and
IBM Websphere I hear are good ones. 

-Original Message-
From: michael wimmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:25 PM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: tomcat performance and load capability


hi all,
 
we are trying to migrate our development, at least partually, from
coldfusion to jsp. Our first project is about to start and we are now a
little bit concerned about the performance. 
 
It is a simple promotion, consisting of 6 JSP pages with access to a
MySql database. DB connectivity is implemented with mm.mysql driver and
protomatter for connection pooling.
 
Since the the project will be promoted via radio spots, we estimate up
two 30.000 hits per day with possibly extreme peaks after the spots have
been broadcasted.
 
I used JMeter for testing and I came up with the insight that tomcat has
problems if I start more than 75 concurrent threads. (e. q. 100 users,
going for two rounds ended up with maybe half as many entries in the
database as there were supposed to be). Increasing the 'maxProcessors'
parameter for the connector did not solve the problem, tomcat (version
4.1.8) still stopped at 75 threads only viewing now the higher number in
the error message 'servlet status'. This problem did not occur when I
ran the same project in the resin 2.1.4 container.
 
My questions are:
- Is Tomcat capable of that load? (Especially for the peaks, I am not
concerned about the overall load).
 
- Our provider has uttered that running it on two machines (Solaris),
one containing the apache web server, the other server hosting tomcat
would be the way to do it. Since only a few popup's are HTML and all
other pages have to be handled by Tomcat anyway (I would say more than
80% off all request are for JSP's), I am concerned if it really is a
good idea to have apache forwarding all pages to a different computer.
Since we HAVE to use our providers shared MySql, the database server was
not part of my performance consideration.
 
- Which version of Tomcat is recommended (4.0.4 or 4.1.8)?
 
- Which JDK (1.3 or 1.4) works best with Tomcat.
 
- Any hints / tips for optimizing the configuration would be highly
appreciated.
 
 
Best regards,
 
Michael Wimmer
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Tomcat Performance question

[Henner Zeller]

Hi Sean,

> My problem is that my sys admin person who needs to deploy this system 
> on a production box is concerned that Tomcat cannot be performant enough 
> to satisfy the high volume of requests on the server.  He is convinced 
> that Tomcat is loaded every time anyone accesses the html, even if they 
> do not access the servlets themselves.

No, tomcat is already started. The tomcat process is running, waiting for 
requests. Each requests is passed to an already spawned and waiting 
thread. So handling a request is pretty fast. Tomcat behaves like a normal 
webserver in this regard: started and waiting for requests.
Even the servlets inside Tomcat are started once at startup and then 
are reused on every request in a separate thread.

HTML-serving is just another servlet in tomcat, that just reads a file and 
passes it to the servlet output stream.

I assume your admin compares tomcat to CGI-programs. CGI-progams (mostly 
written in Perl, thus often referred to as CGI-script) are started every 
time a request goes to them; this indeed is not good for performance, 
especially for scripts that need to start-up a huge interpreter that needs 
to parse its script first.

> One more point.  These servlets must be in a secure environment.  They 
> use a Thawte certificate for security.  I thought Tomcat could be 
> configured to use a secure certificate fairly simply, but he says 
> otherwise.

Yes. Anyway I'd suggest to always use Apache as the frontend (handling 
as well the SSL stuff) and then connect tomcat with AJP12/13 to the 
apache.

ciao,
 -hen


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Re: Tomcat Performance is good!

[Ben Walding]

It might be worth looking at Jakarta Lucence 
(http://jakarta.apache.org/lucene)

Full text search engine - no point reinventing the wheel

(I've never used it, just about to start for my new ultra-secret project).

Trenton D. Adams wrote:

>Yep, perl is better for big text searches as far as the programmer is concerned, but 
>it's not really all that fast.  After all, regular expressions are literally 
>integrated right into the language.  No function calls.  Much easier to work with.
>
>
>I think it's primarily due to the precompiled nature of java BYTE-CODE.  It's easier 
>to translate byte values to other byte values for native machine instruction than it 
>is for translating straight text such as perl to native machine instructions.
>
>Nope, no database backend.  I used a plain text file.  It has one verse per line.  
>Example below.
>Genesis;01;001;001; In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
>
>I am thinking of switching to a database backend though.
>
>I'm using the regular expression package with JDK1.4.0.  Then I have a split routine 
>that I made myself for splitting up the book;booknum;chapter;verse;versetext into 
>their separate parts.  The new String.split () isn't fast enough because it's got the 
>overhead of all possible regular expressions.  In fact, I reduced a search from like 
>1300ms to less than 800ms by switching to my new split.  The reason it's a big 
>improvement is because it's in a loop.  I could do extra programming to work around 
>the fact that it has to be in a loop every time, but I figured it's not worth it.
>
>It's mostly JSP for the HTML part, then I have a bibleSearch method with a simple 
>bean.
>
>
>
>Who knows, maybe it's not actually faster!  Maybe יהוה has made it faster without 
>my knowledge.  LOL
>
>-Original Message-
>From: August Detlefsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>Sent: June 14, 2002 5:30 PM
>To: Tomcat Users List
>Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance is good!
>
>
>That is interesting. I always thought perl was better for big text searches...
>
>Did you give it a database backend? 
>What API are you using for the search? 
>Or is your performance improvement strictly due to the precompiled always-on nature 
>of servlets (as opposed to interpreted perl)?
>
>-August
>
>--- Sébastien_Dui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Let's hope that it will also work for applications without acts of 
>>god...
>>
>>
>>
>>-Message d'origine-
>>De : Trenton D. Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Envoyé : sam. 15 juin 2002 0:06
>>À : 'Tomcat Users List'
>>Objet : Tomcat Performance is good!
>>
>>
>>I've recently been doing some fiddling with Tomcat.  I've built a King
>>James Bible search program.  I based it off of my brother's perl
>>bible
>>search program.  It outputs all identical HTML to the perl version. 
>>It
>>was already out performing it by a couple of seconds on one
>>particular
>>search.  The search for perl took about 6 seconds and the search in
>>the
>>J2EE version on tomcat took approx 4 seconds.  With some code
>>efficiency
>>improvements, I've gotten that down to less than 3 seconds.
>>
>>Just thought you might all like to hear some good news about Tomcat.
>>
>>
>>Tomcat 4.0.3
>>Apache 1.3.20
>>Perl 5.6.0
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>--
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>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>  
>




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RE: Tomcat Performance is good!

[Trenton D. Adams]

Yep, perl is better for big text searches as far as the programmer is concerned, but 
it's not really all that fast.  After all, regular expressions are literally 
integrated right into the language.  No function calls.  Much easier to work with.


I think it's primarily due to the precompiled nature of java BYTE-CODE.  It's easier 
to translate byte values to other byte values for native machine instruction than it 
is for translating straight text such as perl to native machine instructions.

Nope, no database backend.  I used a plain text file.  It has one verse per line.  
Example below.
Genesis;01;001;001; In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

I am thinking of switching to a database backend though.

I'm using the regular expression package with JDK1.4.0.  Then I have a split routine 
that I made myself for splitting up the book;booknum;chapter;verse;versetext into 
their separate parts.  The new String.split () isn't fast enough because it's got the 
overhead of all possible regular expressions.  In fact, I reduced a search from like 
1300ms to less than 800ms by switching to my new split.  The reason it's a big 
improvement is because it's in a loop.  I could do extra programming to work around 
the fact that it has to be in a loop every time, but I figured it's not worth it.

It's mostly JSP for the HTML part, then I have a bibleSearch method with a simple bean.



Who knows, maybe it's not actually faster!  Maybe יהוה has made it faster without 
my knowledge.  LOL

-Original Message-
From: August Detlefsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: June 14, 2002 5:30 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance is good!


That is interesting. I always thought perl was better for big text searches...

Did you give it a database backend? 
What API are you using for the search? 
Or is your performance improvement strictly due to the precompiled always-on nature of 
servlets (as opposed to interpreted perl)?

-August

--- Sébastien_Dui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Let's hope that it will also work for applications without acts of 
> god...
> 
> 
> 
> -Message d'origine-
> De : Trenton D. Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Envoyé : sam. 15 juin 2002 0:06
> À : 'Tomcat Users List'
> Objet : Tomcat Performance is good!
> 
> 
> I've recently been doing some fiddling with Tomcat.  I've built a King
> James Bible search program.  I based it off of my brother's perl
> bible
> search program.  It outputs all identical HTML to the perl version. 
> It
> was already out performing it by a couple of seconds on one
> particular
> search.  The search for perl took about 6 seconds and the search in
> the
> J2EE version on tomcat took approx 4 seconds.  With some code
> efficiency
> improvements, I've gotten that down to less than 3 seconds.
> 
> Just thought you might all like to hear some good news about Tomcat.
> 
> 
> Tomcat 4.0.3
> Apache 1.3.20
> Perl 5.6.0
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
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Re: Tomcat Performance is good!

[otisg]

Of course, the bottleneck here would be the full-text search application
(its algorithm and implementation) and not Tomcat vs.vanilla CGI (I'm
assuming that Perl search stuff is a regular Perl CGI).

Otis



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> 
> From: Trenton D. Adams
> Sent: 6/14/2002 7:08:53 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Tomcat Performance is good!
> 
> I've recently been doing some fiddling with Tomcat. I've built a King
> James Bible search program. I based it off of my brother's perl bible
> search program. It outputs all identical HTML to the perl version. It
> was already out performing it by a couple of seconds on one particular
> search. The search for perl took about 6 seconds and the search in the
> J2EE version on tomcat took approx 4 seconds. With some code
efficiency
> improvements, I've gotten that down to less than 3 seconds.
> 
> Just thought you might all like to hear some good news about Tomcat.
> 
> 
> Tomcat 4.0.3
> Apache 1.3.20
> Perl 5.6.0
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 
> 

RE: Tomcat Performance is good!

[August Detlefsen]

That is interesting. I always thought perl was better for big text
searches...

Did you give it a database backend? 
What API are you using for the search? 
Or is your performance improvement strictly due to the precompiled
always-on nature of servlets (as opposed to interpreted perl)?

-August

--- Sébastien_Dui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Let's hope that it will also work for applications without acts of
> god... 
> 
> 
> 
> -Message d'origine-
> De : Trenton D. Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Envoyé : sam. 15 juin 2002 0:06
> À : 'Tomcat Users List'
> Objet : Tomcat Performance is good!
> 
> 
> I've recently been doing some fiddling with Tomcat.  I've built a
> King
> James Bible search program.  I based it off of my brother's perl
> bible
> search program.  It outputs all identical HTML to the perl version. 
> It
> was already out performing it by a couple of seconds on one
> particular
> search.  The search for perl took about 6 seconds and the search in
> the
> J2EE version on tomcat took approx 4 seconds.  With some code
> efficiency
> improvements, I've gotten that down to less than 3 seconds.
> 
> Just thought you might all like to hear some good news about Tomcat.
> 
> 
> Tomcat 4.0.3
> Apache 1.3.20
> Perl 5.6.0
> 
> 
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RE: Tomcat Performance is good!

[Sébastien Dui]

Let's hope that it will also work for applications without acts of god... 



-Message d'origine-
De : Trenton D. Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Envoyé : sam. 15 juin 2002 0:06
À : 'Tomcat Users List'
Objet : Tomcat Performance is good!


I've recently been doing some fiddling with Tomcat.  I've built a King
James Bible search program.  I based it off of my brother's perl bible
search program.  It outputs all identical HTML to the perl version.  It
was already out performing it by a couple of seconds on one particular
search.  The search for perl took about 6 seconds and the search in the
J2EE version on tomcat took approx 4 seconds.  With some code efficiency
improvements, I've gotten that down to less than 3 seconds.

Just thought you might all like to hear some good news about Tomcat.


Tomcat 4.0.3
Apache 1.3.20
Perl 5.6.0


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Re: Tomcat performance issues

[Giorgio Ponza]

If you disable the database connection, the time is still long?
Are you sure is not a db problem?

Hi


- Original Message - 
From: "Power-Netz (Schwarz)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:59 AM
Subject: AW: Tomcat performance issues


> 
> > Hi All
> >
> > I have designed some jsp pages which extract from a database. But
> > the pages
> > can take upto 5 minutes before they show the content. Is there
> > anyway I can
> > pinpoit where the bottle neck is. My current settings are APACHE
> > +  MOD_jk +
> > Tomcat 4.03 (could the bottle neck be my Apache and tomcat
> > servers being on
> > separate machines?) . Are there any tools that I can use to test the
> > performance of my servers?


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RE: Tomcat performance issues

[Subir Sengupta]

Use a tool like Optimizeit from Borland or wrap your methods in
System.currentTimeMillis().  That will at least help you narrow down your
search.

Good luck,
Subir

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 4:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Tomcat performance issues


Hi All

I have designed some jsp pages which extract from a database. But the pages 
can take upto 5 minutes before they show the content. Is there anyway I can 
pinpoit where the bottle neck is. My current settings are APACHE +  MOD_jk +

Tomcat 4.03 (could the bottle neck be my Apache and tomcat servers being on 
separate machines?) . Are there any tools that I can use to test the 
performance of my servers?

Regards 
amran

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Re: +Tomcat+Performance??

[peter lin]

you can try it out in 4.1.4 when the binaries are released. a new
version of tag pooling, which is cleaner has already beed added. Once
the tires are kicked a bit, it should be in the first official 4.1.x
release.

peter


> As I see there is no tag pooling support as of now in 4.x.
> If my memory serves me right, it was lastly supported in 3.3.
> Let me know if it is avaiable in 4.x

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Re: +Tomcat+Performance??

[Hanks Mei]

Quoting  peter lin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 
> 
> Hanks Mei wrote:
> 
> > Well try this approach before deployment. Thanks for the tip peter.
> > But right now I just have a small page with 4-5 tag libraries. which
> just retrieve information
> > from a bean(where data is hard coded) and displayed in the page.
> 
> when you say "hard coded" I am interpreting this as the data is in the
> bean and does not get it from a database, file or some other remote
> source.

Yup, you are right

> Have you tried using JMeter to benchmark the pages?  some of
> the
> things I've done to track down performance issues is to look at the
> "standard deviation" or "variance" of the responses. Something weird
> must be happening if you're seeing a range of 90-2200. I am guessing
> the
Not really worked much with JMeter.Will try it out.
> standard deviation will be 3-4x the average. If that is the case, a
> likely culprit is garbage collection. If you have any synchronized
> blocks or use a lot of local variable, it may be triggering GC
> prematurely. 
> 
This could be my problem, because the in the test page I have
duplicated 5 times (a block of 5 JSP tags, inserted in a table).
The jsp code generation instantiates the tag libraries. And this might cause 
the GC problem.

As I see there is no tag pooling support as of now in 4.x.
If my memory serves me right, it was lastly supported in 3.3.
Let me know if it is avaiable in 4.x
> keep in mind when GC is triggered, all processes are blocked, until GC
> is done. One way to see if that is the case is to start tomcat with
> higher heap settings. try heap settings of 120min 180max and see if
> that
> helps.


> If that improves the performance it's likely GC is the cause. 
> To
> find out for sure, use JProbe thread profiler to see exactly what is
> happening and what classes are being garbaged.
> 
> I hope that helps.
> 
Will also try increasing the heap and using JProbe.
Thx
mano
> 
> peter
> 
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> 
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> 

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RE: +Tomcat+Performance??

[Hanks Mei]

Quoting  "Trenton D. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Are you loading a bean with scope="request"?  If so, this could cause a
> problem.
> 
I have not used any bean!! The java class is invoked from the tag library.

> -Original Message-
> From: Hanks Mei [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: June 11, 2002 9:17 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re:+Tomcat+Performance??
> 
> 
> Quoting  Rick Fincher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Just a shot in the dark because you sound pretty well versed in JSP, 
> > but were your pages pre-compiled?
> I have not yet tried with that. Will try and update ASAP.
> > If not, they compile the first time they are called, that adds 
> > significantly to loading time.
> But the delay in loading of pages in between i.e in subsequent
> requests.
> 
> > 
> > If it looks like class lookup was the bottleneck, was the slowdown on
> > the
> > first call to the class or was it random? 
> YUP random
> > The slowdown may have been
> > because the first call to the class loaded it, while subsequent calls
> > didn't.
> > 
> > Also, what was the load on the server/database system?  If you are
> > making
> > calls to a corporate database on a remote server, its performance can
> > vary a
> > lot during peak hours.
> Just stand-alone tomcat
> > 
> > Same with a heavily used server.
> > 
> > Rick
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Hanks Mei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:06 AM
> > Subject: Tomcat Performance??
> > 
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have been trying to analyze the
> > > performance of my application(Jsp pages with tag libraries)
> > > in tomcat4.0.3+ jdk1.4
> > >
> > > But I was astonished to find that, the time taken for
> > > the pages to be served was varying between 90ms to 2200ms.
> > > The test jsp page is a dummy page without any back-end processing.
> > > The tags use a java class which contains all the required info
> > > hard coded for testing purposes.
> > >
> > > I am working on a application which must be highly
> > > responsive. So as I was trying to find out the reason,behind it.
> > > The time increase seems to be due to the Class lookup.
> > > (All the required classes are within the WEB-INF/classes)
> > >
> > > Can anybody shed some light on this?
> > > Has anybody seen this issue?
> > >
> > > I would greatly appreciate your help.
> > >
> > > Thx
> > > mano
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:  
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> 
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RE: +Tomcat+Performance??

[Trenton D. Adams]

Are you loading a bean with scope="request"?  If so, this could cause a
problem.

-Original Message-
From: Hanks Mei [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: June 11, 2002 9:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:+Tomcat+Performance??


Quoting  Rick Fincher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi,
> 
> Just a shot in the dark because you sound pretty well versed in JSP, 
> but were your pages pre-compiled?
I have not yet tried with that. Will try and update ASAP.
> If not, they compile the first time they are called, that adds 
> significantly to loading time.
But the delay in loading of pages in between i.e in subsequent requests.

> 
> If it looks like class lookup was the bottleneck, was the slowdown on
> the
> first call to the class or was it random? 
YUP random
> The slowdown may have been
> because the first call to the class loaded it, while subsequent calls
> didn't.
> 
> Also, what was the load on the server/database system?  If you are
> making
> calls to a corporate database on a remote server, its performance can
> vary a
> lot during peak hours.
Just stand-alone tomcat
> 
> Same with a heavily used server.
> 
> Rick
> - Original Message -
> From: "Hanks Mei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:06 AM
> Subject: Tomcat Performance??
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have been trying to analyze the
> > performance of my application(Jsp pages with tag libraries)
> > in tomcat4.0.3+ jdk1.4
> >
> > But I was astonished to find that, the time taken for
> > the pages to be served was varying between 90ms to 2200ms.
> > The test jsp page is a dummy page without any back-end processing.
> > The tags use a java class which contains all the required info
> > hard coded for testing purposes.
> >
> > I am working on a application which must be highly
> > responsive. So as I was trying to find out the reason,behind it.
> > The time increase seems to be due to the Class lookup.
> > (All the required classes are within the WEB-INF/classes)
> >
> > Can anybody shed some light on this?
> > Has anybody seen this issue?
> >
> > I would greatly appreciate your help.
> >
> > Thx
> > mano
> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:  
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

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Re:+Tomcat+Performance??

[Hanks Mei]

Quoting  Rick Fincher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi,
> 
> Just a shot in the dark because you sound pretty well versed in JSP,
> but
> were your pages pre-compiled?
I have not yet tried with that. Will try and update ASAP.
> If not, they compile the first time they are called, that adds
> significantly
> to loading time.
But the delay in loading of pages in between i.e in subsequent requests.

> 
> If it looks like class lookup was the bottleneck, was the slowdown on
> the
> first call to the class or was it random? 
YUP random
> The slowdown may have been
> because the first call to the class loaded it, while subsequent calls
> didn't.
> 
> Also, what was the load on the server/database system?  If you are
> making
> calls to a corporate database on a remote server, its performance can
> vary a
> lot during peak hours.
Just stand-alone tomcat
> 
> Same with a heavily used server.
> 
> Rick
> - Original Message -
> From: "Hanks Mei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:06 AM
> Subject: Tomcat Performance??
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have been trying to analyze the
> > performance of my application(Jsp pages with tag libraries)
> > in tomcat4.0.3+ jdk1.4
> >
> > But I was astonished to find that, the time taken for
> > the pages to be served was varying between 90ms to 2200ms.
> > The test jsp page is a dummy page without any back-end processing.
> > The tags use a java class which contains all the required info
> > hard coded for testing purposes.
> >
> > I am working on a application which must be highly
> > responsive. So as I was trying to find out the reason,behind it.
> > The time increase seems to be due to the Class lookup.
> > (All the required classes are within the WEB-INF/classes)
> >
> > Can anybody shed some light on this?
> > Has anybody seen this issue?
> >
> > I would greatly appreciate your help.
> >
> > Thx
> > mano
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[Remy Maucherat]

peter lin wrote:
> 
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
> 
> 
>>4.0.4 doesn't have the try/catch nesting patch, as it is a major change.
>>None of the changes and improvements made in Jasper 2 were ported to
>>Jasper 1.
>>
>>Remy
>>
> 
> 
> my apologies for giving out wrong information.  I have multiple version
> running on my box and it's getting hard to keep track.

No problem Peter; it's obviously very hard to keep track of everything ;-)

So in that case, it would seem worthwhile to try 4.1.3. Of course, if 
there are really only 4-5 tags in the page, I don't see how this would 
be caused by the tag nesting problem.

Remy


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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[peter lin]

Remy Maucherat wrote:

> 4.0.4 doesn't have the try/catch nesting patch, as it is a major change.
> None of the changes and improvements made in Jasper 2 were ported to
> Jasper 1.
> 
> Remy
> 

my apologies for giving out wrong information.  I have multiple version
running on my box and it's getting hard to keep track.

peter

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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[Remy Maucherat]

Hanks Mei wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>   I have been trying to analyze the 
> performance of my application(Jsp pages with tag libraries)
> in tomcat4.0.3+ jdk1.4
> 
> But I was astonished to find that, the time taken for 
> the pages to be served was varying between 90ms to 2200ms.
> The test jsp page is a dummy page without any back-end processing.
> The tags use a java class which contains all the required info 
> hard coded for testing purposes.
> 
> I am working on a application which must be highly 
> responsive. So as I was trying to find out the reason,behind it.
> The time increase seems to be due to the Class lookup.
> (All the required classes are within the WEB-INF/classes)
> 
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
> Has anybody seen this issue?

I would recommend trying 4.1.3 Beta to see if the problems come from 
Tomcat. 4.1.3 includes the try/catch nesting problem Jasper has in 
4.0.x, and also generally improves performance. Some additional 
performance improvements will be done in future 4.1.x releases, but this 
should at least give you a good idea of what to expect.

Remy


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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[Remy Maucherat]

peter lin wrote:
> Are you using tomcat 4.0.3 _ jdk1.4 on Solaris?
> 
> If so, there is a bug with sun.tools.javac.Main that hits performance
> and jsp page compilation.
> 
> In general, JSP tag performance is slower than pages with scriplets. In
> the last 2 months there have been patches and changes to jasper which
> improve the performance. The are several known issues with JSP Tag
> performance.
> 
> 1. pages with lots of tags (50+) do not perform well under load
> 2. pages with 100+ tags may not compile due to 64K per method limitation
> in Java. This particular issue is currently being address by a couple
> developers and should be fixed in 4.1.x.
> 3. deeply nested try/catch statements result in rapid performance
> degredation under load
> 
> 
> There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When tomcat
> 4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
> try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
> Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number of
> concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves
> significantly. If you're page still performs poorly, try breaking it up
> into include files and use action include instead of include directive.
> I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I hope
> that helps.

4.0.4 doesn't have the try/catch nesting patch, as it is a major change. 
None of the changes and improvements made in Jasper 2 were ported to 
Jasper 1.

Remy


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Re: +Tomcat+Performance??

[peter lin]

Hanks Mei wrote:

> Well try this approach before deployment. Thanks for the tip peter.
> But right now I just have a small page with 4-5 tag libraries. which just retrieve 
>information
> from a bean(where data is hard coded) and displayed in the page.

when you say "hard coded" I am interpreting this as the data is in the
bean and does not get it from a database, file or some other remote
source. Have you tried using JMeter to benchmark the pages?  some of the
things I've done to track down performance issues is to look at the
"standard deviation" or "variance" of the responses. Something weird
must be happening if you're seeing a range of 90-2200. I am guessing the
standard deviation will be 3-4x the average. If that is the case, a
likely culprit is garbage collection. If you have any synchronized
blocks or use a lot of local variable, it may be triggering GC
prematurely. 

keep in mind when GC is triggered, all processes are blocked, until GC
is done. One way to see if that is the case is to start tomcat with
higher heap settings. try heap settings of 120min 180max and see if that
helps. If that improves the performance it's likely GC is the cause.  To
find out for sure, use JProbe thread profiler to see exactly what is
happening and what classes are being garbaged.

I hope that helps.


peter

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Re:+Tomcat+Performance??

[Hanks Mei]

Quoting  peter lin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 
> 
> Hanks Mei wrote:
> > 
> > Hi, Sorry mail client got corrupted, so just copied your mail and
> > see inline for answers
> > 
> > For Peter:
> > 
> > >Are you using tomcat 4.0.3 _ jdk1.4 on Solaris?
> > NOPE!! Using Linux 6.1 RH
> > 
> > >1. pages with lots of tags (50+) do not perform well under load
> > >2. pages with 100+ tags may not compile due to 64K per method
> limitation
> > >in Java. This particular issue is currently being address by a
> couple
> > >developers and should be fixed in 4.1.x.
> > I understand that there will be a performance degradation when tag
> > libraries are used.But still the same page must be in the
> > same range right??
> > >3. deeply nested try/catch statements result in rapid performance
> > degredation under load
> > 
> > Well, maybe i need to check the tags code for nested try/catch
> > I dont remember adding any, anyway will check this.
> 
> the deeply nested try/catch is the generated jsp source under
> tomcat/work/localhost/.  It has nothing to do with the tag itself,
> unless you're using custom tags which you wrote. If you're using jstl,
> struts or some third party tag, it's unlikely there would be deeply
> nested try/catch.
> 
Yup I have used my own custom tags. They don't  have nested try/catches

> > 
> > >There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When
> tomcat
> > >4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
> > try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
> > >Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number
> of
> > >concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves
> > 
> > Maybe I will try with 4.0.4& 4.1.3
> > 
> > >significantly. If you''re page still performs poorly, try breaking it
> up
> > >into include files and use action include instead of include
> directive.
> > >I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I
> hope
> > >that helps.
> > But using includes/forwards will increase the performance load,
> rather
> > than decreasing it. Bcos the request handler has to process
> > the request and there is always an overhead in using includes
> 
> believe it or not, for 8+ concurrent requests, the performance could be
> better. You can search the tomcat-dev  and tomcat-user list for the
> benchmarks I posted a while back. With one request, using include
> directive is faster, but you run into the 64K per method limit 4.0.3
> jasper. You may not be able to break a long jsp page into discrete
> pieces, but doing so does improve performance under load. I've done
> tests where I wrote the same pages using both tags and scriplets. The
> scriplets has the lower memory and performance overhead compared tags.

Well try this approach before deployment. Thanks for the tip peter.
But right now I just have a small page with 4-5 tag libraries. which just retrieve 
information 
from a bean(where data is hard coded) and displayed in the page.

> 
> One thing to remember is tomcat handles each request in one thread, so
> when action include is used, there's more than one thread handling the
> request. If the page is broken up correctly, the page will perform
> better than include directive. This is especially true if all the set
> calls are at the very beginning of the page and do not occur through
> the
R u talking about the bean's set calls? any way we r having the bean's set calls
in the beginning.
> rest. Breaking up the rendering logic to chunks will speed up the
> response time.
> 
Will surely try this out.
> peter
> 
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Thx
mano
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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[peter lin]

Hanks Mei wrote:
> 
> Hi, Sorry mail client got corrupted, so just copied your mail and
> see inline for answers
> 
> For Peter:
> 
> >Are you using tomcat 4.0.3 _ jdk1.4 on Solaris?
> NOPE!! Using Linux 6.1 RH
> 
> >1. pages with lots of tags (50+) do not perform well under load
> >2. pages with 100+ tags may not compile due to 64K per method limitation
> >in Java. This particular issue is currently being address by a couple
> >developers and should be fixed in 4.1.x.
> I understand that there will be a performance degradation when tag
> libraries are used.But still the same page must be in the
> same range right??
> >3. deeply nested try/catch statements result in rapid performance
> degredation under load
> 
> Well, maybe i need to check the tags code for nested try/catch
> I dont remember adding any, anyway will check this.

the deeply nested try/catch is the generated jsp source under
tomcat/work/localhost/.  It has nothing to do with the tag itself,
unless you're using custom tags which you wrote. If you're using jstl,
struts or some third party tag, it's unlikely there would be deeply
nested try/catch.

> 
> >There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When tomcat
> >4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
> try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
> >Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number of
> >concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves
> 
> Maybe I will try with 4.0.4& 4.1.3
> 
> >significantly. If you''re page still performs poorly, try breaking it up
> >into include files and use action include instead of include directive.
> >I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I hope
> >that helps.
> But using includes/forwards will increase the performance load, rather
> than decreasing it. Bcos the request handler has to process
> the request and there is always an overhead in using includes

believe it or not, for 8+ concurrent requests, the performance could be
better. You can search the tomcat-dev  and tomcat-user list for the
benchmarks I posted a while back. With one request, using include
directive is faster, but you run into the 64K per method limit 4.0.3
jasper. You may not be able to break a long jsp page into discrete
pieces, but doing so does improve performance under load. I've done
tests where I wrote the same pages using both tags and scriplets. The
scriplets has the lower memory and performance overhead compared tags.

One thing to remember is tomcat handles each request in one thread, so
when action include is used, there's more than one thread handling the
request. If the page is broken up correctly, the page will perform
better than include directive. This is especially true if all the set
calls are at the very beginning of the page and do not occur through the
rest. Breaking up the rendering logic to chunks will speed up the
response time.

peter

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Re:+Tomcat+Performance

[Hanks Mei]

Hi, Sorry mail client got corrupted, so just copied your mail and
see inline for answers
Hope I am not sending it for the 4th time, b'cos my mail client has been crashing...
sorry guys



>Are you using tomcat 4.0.3 _ jdk1.4 on Solaris?
NOPE!! Using Linux 6.1 RH


>1. pages with lots of tags (50+) do not perform well under load
>2. pages with 100+ tags may not compile due to 64K per method limitation
>in Java. This particular issue is currently being address by a couple
>developers and should be fixed in 4.1.x.
I understand that there will be a performance degradation when tag
libraries are used.But still the same page must be in the
same range right??
>3. deeply nested try/catch statements result in rapid performance
degredation under load



Well, maybe i need to check the tags code for nested try/catch
I dont remember adding any, anyway will check this.

>There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When tomcat
>4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
>Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number of
>concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves

Maybe I will try with 4.0.4& 4.1.3

>significantly. If youre page still performs poorly, try breaking it up
>into include files and use action include instead of include directive.
>I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I hope
>that helps.
But using includes/forwards will increase the performance load, rather
than decreasing it. Bcos the request handler has to process
the request and there is always an overhead in using includes


>
>peter



>Hi. It seems very strange. you ve got very differents response time, from 90
>up 2200 ms!!! Do you have any other kind of service running and wasting your
>cpu or io service?
>Regards, Euclides.
NOPE!!! just tomcat.
I have even removed all other web applications, since they affect
the performance of tomcat.


Thx
Mano
.

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Re:+Tomcat+Performance

[Hanks Mei]

Hi, Sorry mail client got corrupted, so just copied your mail and
see inline for answers



>Are you using tomcat 4.0.3 _ jdk1.4 on Solaris?
NOPE!! Using Linux 6.1 RH


>1. pages with lots of tags (50+) do not perform well under load
>2. pages with 100+ tags may not compile due to 64K per method limitation
>in Java. This particular issue is currently being address by a couple
>developers and should be fixed in 4.1.x.
I understand that there will be a performance degradation when tag
libraries are used.But still the same page must be in the
same range right??
>3. deeply nested try/catch statements result in rapid performance
degredation under load



Well, maybe i need to check the tags code for nested try/catch
I dont remember adding any, anyway will check this.

>There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When tomcat
>4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
>Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number of
>concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves

Maybe I will try with 4.0.4& 4.1.3

>significantly. If youre page still performs poorly, try breaking it up
>into include files and use action include instead of include directive.
>I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I hope
>that helps.
But using includes/forwards will increase the performance load, rather
than decreasing it. Bcos the request handler has to process
the request and there is always an overhead in using includes


>
>peter



>Hi. It seems very strange. you ve got very differents response time, from 90
>up 2200 ms!!! Do you have any other kind of service running and wasting your
>cpu or io service?
>Regards, Euclides.
NOPE!!! just tomcat.
I have even removed all other web applications, since they affect
the performance of tomcat.


Thx
Mano
.

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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[Jiann-Ming Su]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, peter lin wrote:

> There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When tomcat
> 4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
> try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
> Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number of
> concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves
> significantly. If you're page still performs poorly, try breaking it up
> into include files and use action include instead of include directive.
> I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I hope
> that helps.
> 

Will this solve my connection problem with IE6?

-- 
Jiann-Ming Su  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  404-712-2603
Development Team Systems Administrator
General Libraries Systems Division


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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[Hanks Mei]

Hi, Sorry mail client got corrupted, so just copied your mail and
see inline for answers


For Peter:

>Are you using tomcat 4.0.3 _ jdk1.4 on Solaris?
NOPE!! Using Linux 6.1 RH


>1. pages with lots of tags (50+) do not perform well under load
>2. pages with 100+ tags may not compile due to 64K per method limitation
>in Java. This particular issue is currently being address by a couple
>developers and should be fixed in 4.1.x.
I understand that there will be a performance degradation when tag
libraries are used.But still the same page must be in the
same range right??
>3. deeply nested try/catch statements result in rapid performance
degredation under load



Well, maybe i need to check the tags code for nested try/catch
I dont remember adding any, anyway will check this.

>There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When tomcat
>4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
>Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number of
>concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves

Maybe I will try with 4.0.4& 4.1.3

>significantly. If you''re page still performs poorly, try breaking it up
>into include files and use action include instead of include directive.
>I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I hope
>that helps.
But using includes/forwards will increase the performance load, rather
than decreasing it. Bcos the request handler has to process
the request and there is always an overhead in using includes
>
>peter

Euclides:(thought i sent it not sure so just reposting)

>Hi. It seems very strange. you ve got very differents response time, from 90
>up 2200 ms!!! Do you have any other kind of service running and wasting your
>cpu or io service?
NOPE!!! Just tomcat.
I have even removed other web applications b'cos they seem 
to affect the performance of tomcat.

>Regards, Euclides.

Thx
Mano

.

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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[Rick Fincher]

Hi,

Just a shot in the dark because you sound pretty well versed in JSP, but
were your pages pre-compiled?
If not, they compile the first time they are called, that adds significantly
to loading time.

If it looks like class lookup was the bottleneck, was the slowdown on the
first call to the class or was it random?  The slowdown may have been
because the first call to the class loaded it, while subsequent calls
didn't.

Also, what was the load on the server/database system?  If you are making
calls to a corporate database on a remote server, its performance can vary a
lot during peak hours.

Same with a heavily used server.

Rick
- Original Message -
From: "Hanks Mei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:06 AM
Subject: Tomcat Performance??


> Hi,
>
> I have been trying to analyze the
> performance of my application(Jsp pages with tag libraries)
> in tomcat4.0.3+ jdk1.4
>
> But I was astonished to find that, the time taken for
> the pages to be served was varying between 90ms to 2200ms.
> The test jsp page is a dummy page without any back-end processing.
> The tags use a java class which contains all the required info
> hard coded for testing purposes.
>
> I am working on a application which must be highly
> responsive. So as I was trying to find out the reason,behind it.
> The time increase seems to be due to the Class lookup.
> (All the required classes are within the WEB-INF/classes)
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
> Has anybody seen this issue?
>
> I would greatly appreciate your help.
>
> Thx
> mano



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Re: Tomcat Performance??

[peter lin]

Are you using tomcat 4.0.3 _ jdk1.4 on Solaris?

If so, there is a bug with sun.tools.javac.Main that hits performance
and jsp page compilation.

In general, JSP tag performance is slower than pages with scriplets. In
the last 2 months there have been patches and changes to jasper which
improve the performance. The are several known issues with JSP Tag
performance.

1. pages with lots of tags (50+) do not perform well under load
2. pages with 100+ tags may not compile due to 64K per method limitation
in Java. This particular issue is currently being address by a couple
developers and should be fixed in 4.1.x.
3. deeply nested try/catch statements result in rapid performance
degredation under load


There are a couple things that will improve the situation. When tomcat
4.0.4 comes out, it has a recent patch which fixes deeply nested
try/catch. Also, tomcat 4.0.4 has a new httpconnector called coyote.
Together the performance improves dramatically such that the number of
concurrent requests triples. Also, the response time improves
significantly. If you're page still performs poorly, try breaking it up
into include files and use action include instead of include directive.
I.e use  or , instead of <%@ include %>. I hope
that helps.

peter


Hanks Mei wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been trying to analyze the
> performance of my application(Jsp pages with tag libraries)
> in tomcat4.0.3+ jdk1.4
> 
> But I was astonished to find that, the time taken for
> the pages to be served was varying between 90ms to 2200ms.
> The test jsp page is a dummy page without any back-end processing.
> The tags use a java class which contains all the required info
> hard coded for testing purposes.
> 
> I am working on a application which must be highly
> responsive. So as I was trying to find out the reason,behind it.
> The time increase seems to be due to the Class lookup.
> (All the required classes are within the WEB-INF/classes)
> 
> Can anybody shed some light on this?
> Has anybody seen this issue?
> 
> I would greatly appreciate your help.
> 
> Thx
> mano
> 
> -
> Sify Mail - now with Anti-virus protection powered by Trend Micro, USA.
> Know more at http://mail.sify.com
> 
> Take the shortest route to success!
> Click here to know how http://education.sify.com
> 
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