Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Extreme sarcasm alert:"Don't worry though. If you're on the political right, this virus can't hurt you. It must feed on self-righteousness or altruism or something. It only targets ignorant, lunatic leftists who let fear get the better of them. Seriously, if it weren't for those dang leftists, this virus wouldn't even be a problem. They'd all be dead and the world would be a better place. Or maybe no one would be dead, or hardly anyone, anyway, and the world would be a better place because the capitalist machine would still be spitting out its daily death and debt just as efficiently as it used to. All hail the status quo! But since they had to go crazy with all the social distancing and mask-wearing bullshit, people are dying more now than they would have if we'd just left the bloody thing alone. I mean seriously, that's some amazing universe-busting logic, right there. The more safety you employ, the more dangerous this thing actually gets, which means that greater infection rate somehow translates to lower risk. Look, I don't get it either, but that's just the way it is. So clearly the answer is to just let it run its course and kill everyone that doesn't matter. Anyone telling you that this virus is actually dangerous is just trying to scare you. If you die of Covid-19, you won't actually be dying of Covid-19. You'll be dying because your lungs shut down for completely unrelated reasons, or your organs failed for completely unrelated reasons. Or your brain threw a rod for completely unrelated reasons. Oh, and that virus in your system? It's pretty harmless. If you're young and healthy, you'll get better. Just ignore it and it will go away. Go back to work. Don't wear a mask. Don't be afraid. Be free! Long live 'Murica! Make 'Murica great again...or wait, was it make 'Murica sick again? Can't remember. Breathe in. Breathe out. Long live agent orange...no, wait, that's not right; orange is the new quack. That's better. And all those people saying "I can't breathe"...never mind them either."Obviously I don't believe any of that, and I agree that the disease is not fully known yet and is causing far greater problems than its mortality rate. I won't rush out to get a vaccine the instant it's available, but I also won't take ridiculous and insensitive chances in the meantime. I have respect for front-line workers, and I want to see them go on living, and hopefully living virus-free, so here we are. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551836/#p551836 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Extreme sarcasm alert:"Don't worry though. If you're on the political right, this virus can't hurt you. It must feed on self-righteousness or altruism or something. It only targets ignorant, lunatic leftists who let fear get the better of them. Seriously, if it weren't for those dang leftists, this virus wouldn't even be a problem. They'd all be dead and the world would be a better place. Or maybe no one would be dead, or hardly anyone, anyway, and the world would be a better place because the capitalist machine would still be spitting out its daily death and debt just as efficiently as it used to. All hail the status quo! But since they had to go crazy with all the social distancing and mask-wearing bullshit, people are dying more now than they would have if we'd just left the bloody thing alone. I mean seriously, that's some amazing universe-busting logic, right there. The more safety you employ, the more dangerous this thing actually gets, which means that greater infection rate somehow translates to lower risk. Look, I don't get it either, but that's just the way it is. So clearly the answer is to just let it run its course and kill everyone that doesn't matter. Anyone telling you that this virus is actually dangerous is just trying to scare you. If you die of Covid-19, you won't actually be dying of Covid-19. You'll be dying because your lungs shut down for completely unrelated reasons, or your organs failed for completely unrelated reasons. Or your brain threw a rod for completely unrelated reasons. Oh, and that virus in your system? It's pretty harmless. If you're young and healthy, you'll get better. Just ignore it and it will go away. Go back to work. Don't wear a mask. Don't be afraid. Be free! Long live 'Murica! Make 'Murica great again...or wait, was it make 'Murica sick again? Can't remember. Breathe in. Breathe out. Long live the orange. And all those people saying "I can't breathe"...never mind them either."Obviously I don't believe any of that, and I agree that the disease is not fully known yet and is causing far greater problems than its mortality rate. I won't rush out to get a vaccine the instant it's available, but I also won't take ridiculous and insensitive chances in the meantime. I have respect for front-line workers, and I want to see them go on living, and hopefully living virus-free, so here we are. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551836/#p551836 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Well, There are new things being discovered about this virus now. Since 2 3 days they publish new studies which makes this Virus even more dangerous. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551833/#p551833 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? lol akman, I am well aquainted with the walls in my home. I have more enjoyable conversation with them lol.In all seriousness though, I find it pointless to continue to respond. I have said everything I can possibly say. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551786/#p551786 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? He absolutely did, yup. And when he was confronted on it, he got mad because reputable news sources told the truth and he wanted it all walked back. He wanted the use of the word "tear gas" taken out because they used a compound that wasn't quite as strong (same effect though, people still needed medical attention from it). The guy wanted to pose in front of this church holding a bible (which he held upside down, BTW, so think what you want on that one), and instead of folks being warned ahead of time that he was going to be there, they just showed up and started shooting. Peaceful protestors have even been caught on video raising their hands and saying "Hands up! Don't shoot!", but that didn't stop Trump and his goons.I thought that his sound byte shortly thereafter was very telling. A reporter asked, "Is that your bible?", and Trump, in a very glib voice, said, "It's -A bible".I saw a funny little meme on Facebook the other day that I want to share. Goes a little something like this:"America is out of order. It will open with new management in November. Thank you for your patience." I laughed so hard. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551784/#p551784 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Didn't Trump removed some peaceful protestors outside white House with army, how on earth people are tolorating this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551772/#p551772 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Turtlepower, I understood you, don't worry. I'm glad you're wearing a mask at more than just your job. I'm in a position where I make a point to wear a mask in public if I'm out for any length of time, but if I'm, say, just nipping down to get the mail or going to put the trash out, I may not. In those situations I'm in and out in less than two minutes, and I make a point of going at weird hours so I don't actually encounter anyone. At this point, if I go to a store or whatever, I mask up. I don't even think twice about it. I'm going to be going to my dad's place again in a few days and I probably will not wear a mask in his car or at his home, but if we go into town for any reason (to get booze, for instance) I will wear my mask.See, the thing is, I recognize that masks aren't perfect at stopping viral transmission, but I also realize their odds of doing so are considerably greater than zero. As someone who actually has the capacity of analyzing basic numbers, I understand that when it comes to protection, even a number like ten percent protection is way, way bigger than zero percent protection, so I'd consider it morally bankrupt not to try and help protect myself and others. The fact that Covid-19 can break out in a factory, even a factory that makes masks, just makes me feel sorry for people who have to work in such conditions. Capitalism FTW, am I right?I mean, what's next? A thirty-six-point headline saying "Just in: Trump says belief in God kills Covid-19" and a massive flock to public worship spaces? Jesus. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551766/#p551766 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Hey, people wanted evidence, evidence of why I stood against these regulations, and I have provided that. It is not my problem that it isn't taken seriously, and quite frankly it is none of my concern. You have to do what you feel is best, and that's perfectly fine. That's what I am doing as well. What works for you might not work for someone else, and that is why these regulations are nothing more than a pathetic joke. They can't be enforced for one thing, unless you want to base every accusation on hear-say which is asking for more trouble than this virus could ever cause. Again, you do whatever works for you, and I'll do what I need to do. That's all I am promoting. Here's to hoping that things work out for all of us regardless. That's what we need to keep in view. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551747/#p551747 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Accman can you maybe get your understanding of virology from learning a bit about how viruses work as a system as opposed to constantly quoting the media, which has a real financial incentive to not cover a story in your best interests?Many political entities have real reasons to try to downplay the virus and the consequences are being seen in places like Texas and Florida now (a few months ago it was other places), they take advantage of the alienation presented by our current situation to make us not believe that the virus is as dangerous as it actually is. Instead of becoming hyper analytical of inconclusive information, we should be more proactive and look at the situation as a complex system, both on the social and the individual level.Self isolation isn't fun and has its own problems but we are actually extending the damage that self isolation causes by continuing to exasperate the disease, because there will be a point where we are materially forced to self isolate out of all of the death that surrounds us. Even if a disease only has a mortality rate of 5%, spreading throughout a community still has catastrophic results on its population. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551734/#p551734 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Eens, I am as a wall because I have rock-solid backing on which to stand. Just today, I saw where the Guardian had reported on a mask manufacturer in Los Angeles that had to close down because at least a hundred of its employees, all of them masked by the way, came down with this virus or something like it. And yes, you would have better luck talking to a brick wall in that it isn't a living thing and cannot disagree with anything you tell it. Look at it this way, in self-isolation you'll have all the wall to talk to that you could ever want. Have fun with that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551729/#p551729 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Honestly, after what I went through a few months back, not wearing a mask in public would feel like a giant fuck you to the person in my life who thankfully recovered, but was pretty sick there for awhile. I'll clarify that I wear my mask when I go to stores and stuff too, so it's not just about a work regulation. I think that was implied from my post, but I wanted to make it crystal clear.I want to briefly touch on the point that was made about false positives significantly affecting a person's livelihood while I'm here. I do get that it kind of makes you feel marked, for lack of a better word, and that's no good for anybody's mental health. That would be particularly true, I imagine, for certain races who are being unfairly treated and/or blamed for the spread of this virus. I can see how someone might feel as though they're being unfairly judged once they come out of their self-isolation period, whether they ever showed symptoms or not. That is an unfortunate side effect of both racism and fear, both of which are running rampant right now. The mental health effects of this really can't be understated enough, either. That's one thing that still makes me feel helpless, because there's no good solution for it. Historically, western societies, the US in particular, have had a pretty shitty attitude towards mental health concerns. Despite the fact that the suicide rate has been projected to go up due to all the stress this has caused, never mind things like PTSD for frontline workers, and those projections have been shown to be at least somewhat accurate, most people are too wrapped up in their own issues to be of much assistance. Alternatively, they just dismiss what others are going through because they haven't lost somebody, so it can't be that bad, right? A shining example of this actually exists on this very forum. A few months back, someone posted a topic in which they invited anyone to share what sorts of things they were stressed about due to the current situation. That topic got very few posts, which is rather sad, but flip that on its head, and it's understandable. See, psychologists, crisis line workers, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals are just as much on the frontline as the nurses who hold dying patients' hands because their families cannot. Going to a mental health professional now seems almost selfish, at least to me, because they, too, must be completely overwhelmed. Yes, they are trained to deal with tense and even life-threatening situations, but nobody's equipped to deal with any of it on this scale. That, alone, has made me feel incredibly lost in the worst struggles I was going through a few months back. I can't even begin to imagine how surreal, yet horrifying, it must feel to be a medical professional right now. Surely, they need those resources much more than someone like me who could have lost a significant person in their life, ultimately did not, but still feels the gravity of, what to me, at least, was a life-altering experience. You don't just forget something like that, not even when it caused you to reevaluate yourself and make positive changes, because you also feel like you're a step away from unravelling at any given time when those thoughts of what if? and if only... take over, which they often do. And if I'm selfish enough to still be struggling, the sheer magnitude of the awfulness others must be struggling with is just too big for me to fathom. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551726/#p551726 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Honestly, after what I went through a few months back, not wearing a mask in public would feel like a giant fuck you to the person in my life who thankfully recovered, but was pretty sick there for awhile. I'll clarify that I wear my mask when I go to stores and stuff too, so it's not just about a work regulation. I think that was implied from my post, but I wanted to make it crystal clear.I want to briefly touch on the point that was made about false positives significantly affecting a person's livelihood while I'm here. I do get that it kind of makes you feel marked, for lack of a better word, and that's no good for anybody's mental health. That would be particularly true, I imagine, for certain races who are being unfairly treated and/or blamed for the spread of this virus. I can see how someone might feel as though they're being unfairly judged once they come out of their self-isolation period, whether they ever showed symptoms or not. That is an unfortunate side effect of both racism and fear, both of which are running rampant right now. The mental health effects of this really can't be understated enough, either. That's one thing that still makes me feel helpless, because there's no good solution for it. Historically, western societies, the US in particular, have had a pretty shitty attitude towards mental health concerns. Despite the fact that the suicide rate has been projected to go up due to all the stress this has caused, never mind things like PTSD for frontline workers, and those projections have been shown to be at least somewhat accurate, most people are too wrapped up in their own issues to be of much assistance. Alternatively, they just dismiss what others are going through because they haven't lose somebody, so it can't be that bad, right? A shining example of this actually exists on this very forum. A few months back, someone posted a topic in which they invited anyone to share what sorts of things they were stressed about due to the current situation. That topic got very few posts, which is rather sad, but flip that on its head, and it's understandable. See, psychologists, crisis line workers, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals are just as much on the frontline as the nurses who hold dying patients' hands because their families cannot. Going to a mental health professional now seems almost selfish, at least to me, because they, too, must be completely overwhelmed. Yes, they are trained to deal with tense and even life-threatening situations, but nobody's equipped to deal with any of it on this scale. That, alone, has made me feel incredibly lost in the worst struggles I was going through a few months back. I can't even begin to imagine how surreal, yet horrifying, it must feel to be a medical professional right now. Surely, they need those resources much more than someone like me who could have lost a significant person in their life, ultimately did not, but still feels the gravity of, what to me, at least, was a life-altering experience. You don't just forget something like that, not even when it caused you to reevaluate yourself and make positive changes, because you also feel like you're a step away from unravelling at any given time when those thoughts of what if? and if only... take over, which they often do. And if I'm selfish enough to still be struggling, the sheer magnitude of the awfulness others must be struggling with is just too big for me to fathom. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551726/#p551726 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Oh my god akman! Talking to you is like talking to a wall honestly. In fact, I think I would probably have better luck with the wall.Imunity is not! a universally scientificly established truth for all diseases. Imunity does not occur to all viruses, bacteria etc that one gets infected with, only certain ones. But for example, the flu virus basicly triggers little to no imunity. If you had read the article I posted, you would not be talking about those with comprimised immune systems, as the article and study was primarily on a large sample of regular people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551673/#p551673 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Turtlepower, good on you for taking it on the chin, as it were, admitting that wearing a mask in the heat sucks, but explaining that you can still smell things reasonably well. Yeah, I can imagine yawning or whatnot with one on would probably not be super pleasant. You're doing your part to slow this down, which is exactly what we need right now. If we'd let this virus do exactly as it intended, without any sort of slowdown, there'd be a ruined medical system and millions more dead right now. Regulation or not, you're doing the right thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551664/#p551664 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Right, so this topic blew up.First of all, it's not that much more difficult to smell with a mask on. I wear one for 8 hours a day, five days a week, at work, minus the time that I take a lunch break, so let's say 7 hours and 40 minutes. It's a cloth mask, so perhaps the disposable ones alter that sense a bit differently. I only wore one of those one time, and, while I didn't notice any significant difference, I wasn't paying that much attention at the time, either. The only thing that can suck a lot is when you yawn, or otherwise manage to inhale the smell of your breath through the inside of the thing. Let's just say I've got extra mints on hand for this purpose. Other than that, though, the route I take to the public bus in the afternoon goes past a restaurant, a very good cue as i'm navigating. I've had no problems picking up the smells emanating from the place, nor any other smells, for that matter. Oh, and yes, in 90+ degree weather every day, it really doesn't feel good when you're outside wearing one, but to me, it's a small price to pay. Maybe I'd care more if I was working outside, but I'm in an air-conditioned building, too well-cooled at times if you ask me, so I just don't see it as being such a monumental deal.I will say that I hate the fact that I seem to be the only person in the world who sounds really stupid while wearing the damn thing, even leading a friend of mine to say it sounds like I got my teeth punched in when I have it on. Ugh. But there again, am I going to let a little insecurity about the way I sound, something I never cared much for in the first place, trump the rights of everyone around me? No, I am not, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that all of us employees are required to wear masks. It's just the right thing to do at this time, unless new guidelines come to light from a trustworthy source which state otherwise. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551654/#p551654 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? EEn's, herd immunity is a proven scientific truth, and we countless instances in history to back it up. I never said it everyone would become immune to it. There are those who already have other conditions that have weakened their immune systems, so there will still be people who fall ill to this. This virus will spread no matter the regulations. I don't like it any more than the next person, but that's how things like this work unfortunately. Yes, the regulations may slow it down, but that's all they will accomplish. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551632/#p551632 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? I know, Enes. As I said, I was being ironic.You and I are pretty much in lockstep about all of this. The link you provided, the Quorra one I mean, shows that simplification to life and death is not even near the complete picture, and it's only ever done to minimize the impact this pandemic is having. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551507/#p551507 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Well Jayde, it is overly simplfying it to only boil it down to individuals life and death counts I do admit. But The motivation behind my posting was my belief that simplying it a little, would allow some of the opinion that this many deaths didn't matter to change their mindset. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551505/#p551505 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Ok all, some responses to the posts here, as I haven't been following this topic lately.Re: hherd emunity.Akman the idea that everyone will have imunity and we all will be fine once we getted hasn't been proven. There have been scientific studies questioning this stance. There is this spanish study that looked on whether people had antibodies, and how long people had them. They found that antibodies faided in most people after a couple weeks.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/herd-im … study.htmlOn hydroxycloroquin, the health authorities in the EU, as well as the FDA and the WHO have clearly stated that this drug has not been proven to work, and that the potential side effects would outweigh any benefit it provided. The only two countries I know of, that are using this drug are Brazil, and Turkey. Though the transparent! health minister claims they have seen benefits, and that is safe, I really don't trust that, as money has been known to talk really loudly in Turkey, and conflicts of interest might be involved, and also due to literally all public health experts causioning against using it. Turkey initially started using the drug for intubated patients, then people in intensive care. Now it has progressed so much, they give it to people who are presumed posetive covid-19, even when tests don't prove it, even as a profolaxis also. They additionally use this on people who are asymptomatic as well. They also claim in Turkey that this ddrug has been used for a long time, and the side effects understood. The problem with that is that a drug should be not only effective, but the harms of the drug should not be equal to or greater than the disease they are designed to treat. HCQ is approve to lupus and malaria, as these diseases have effects that are deleterious for most people, they do not recover on their own, and the drug is not worse than the diseases. Now this drug is worse than covid-19 for many people. It can cause abnormal heart rithems, which was actually a reason several studies were stopped, and also, cause blindness and deafness even months after the drugs are discontinued. Moreover, it is also genetoxic, toxic to the DNA and cell devision processes in the body, and thus likely to cause cancer. The FDA has a site called physician's desk reference, for physicians, where uses and side effects, as well as black box warnings and contraindications for drugs are indicated.https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Plaque … -1911.7193I don't think Turkey's really liberal use of this drug is known widely. One other thing that isn't known as well is that manditory HCQ treatment was a reason Germany didn't let it's citizens travel to Turkey, and excluded it from the safe travel locations list.On the vaccene, I again didn't see a day when I would agree partially with Akman, but it has come. This vaccene, people are naturally really impatient for one, and one is being rushed out as fast as possible. This would increase the possibility that it won't be tested as thoroughly as vaccenes normally are, and that it could have severe side effects affecting several populations. For this reason, I will hold off getting it when it comes out, until it has been tried in alot of people, and the adverse effects are widely known. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551494/#p551494 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Ok all, some responses to the posts here, as I haven't been following this topic lately.Re: hherd emunity.Akman the idea that everyone will have imunity and we all will be fine once we getted hasn't been proven. There have been scientific studies questioning this stance. There is this spanish study that looked on whether people had antibodies, and how long people had them. They found that antibodies faided in most people after a couple weeks.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/herd-im … study.htmlOn hydroxycloroquin, the health authorities in the EU, as well as the FDA and the WHO have clearly stated that this drug has not been proven to work, and that the potential side effects would outweigh any benefit it provided. The only two countries I know of, that are using this drug are Brazil, and Turkey. Though the transparent! health minister claims they have seen benefits, and that is safe, I really don't trust that, as money has been known to talk really loudly in Turkey, and conflicts of interest might be involved, and also due to literally all public health experts causioning against using it. Turkey initially started using the drug for intubated patients, then people in intensive care. Now it has progressed so much, they give it to people who are presumed posetive covid-19, even when tests don't prove it, even as a profolaxis also. They additionally use this on people who are asymptomatic as well. They also claim in Turkey that this ddrug has been used for a long time, and the side effects understood. The problem with that is that a drug should be not only effective, but the harms of the drug should not be equal to or greater than the disease they are designed to treat. HCQ is approve to lupus and malaria, as these diseases have effects that are deleterious for most people, they do not recover on their own, and the drug is not worse than the diseases. Now this drug is worse than covid-19 for many people. It can cause abnormal heart rithems, which was actually a reason several studies were stopped, and also, cause blindness and deafness even months after the drugs are discontinued. Moreover, it is also genetoxic, toxic to the DNA and cell devision processes in the body, and thus likely to cause cancer. The FDA has a site called physician's desk reference, for physicians, where uses and side effects, as well as black box warnings and contraindications for drugs are indicated.https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Plaque … -1911.7193I don't think Turkey's really liberal use of this drug is known widely. One other thing that isn't known as well is that HCQ was a reason Germany didn't let it's citizens travel to Turkey, and excluded it from the safe travel locations list.On the vaccene, I again didn't see a day when I would agree partially with Akman, but it has come. This vaccene, people are naturally really impatient for one, and one is being rushed out as fast as possible. This would increase the possibility that it won't be tested as thoroughly as vaccenes normally are, and that it could have severe side effects affecting several populations. For this reason, I will hold off getting it when it comes out, until it has been tried in alot of people, and the adverse effects are widely known. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551494/#p551494 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Ok all, some responses to the posts here, as I haven't been following this topic lately.Re: hherd emunity.Akman the idea that everyone will have imunity and we all will be fine once we getted hasn't been proven. There have been scientific studies questioning this stance. There is this spanish study that looked on whether people had antibodies, and how long people had them. They found that antibodies faided in most people after a couple weeks.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/herd-im … study.htmlOn hydroxycloroquin, the health authorities in the EU, as well as the FDA and the WHO have clearly stated that this drug has not been proven to work, and that the potential side effects would outweigh any benefit it provided. The only two countries I know of, that are using this drug are Brazil, and Turkey. Though the transparent! health minister claims they have seen benefits, and that is safe, I really don't trust that, as money has been known to talk really loudly in Turkey, and conflicts of interest might be involved, and also due to literally all public health experts causioning against using it. Turkey initially started using the drug for intubated patients, then people in intensive care. Now it has progressed so much, they give it to people who are presumed posetive covid-19, even when tests don't prove it, even as a profolaxis also. They additionally use this on people who are asymptomatic as well. They additionally in Turkey that this ddrug has been used for a long time, and the side effects understood. The problem with that is that a drug should be not only effective, but the harms of the drug should not be equal to or greater than the disease they are designed to treat. HCQ is approve to lupus and malaria, as these diseases have effects that are deleterious for most people, they do not recover on their own, and the drug is not worse than the diseases. Now this drug is worse than covid-19 for many people. It can cause abnormal heart rithems, which was actually a reason several studies were stopped, and also, cause blindness and deafness even months after the drugs are discontinued. Moreover, it is also genetoxic, toxic to the DNA and cell devision processes in the body, and thus likely to cause cancer. The FDA has a site called physician's desk reference, for physicians, where uses and side effects, as well as black box warnings and contraindications for drugs are indicated.https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Plaque … -1911.7193I don't think Turkey's really liberal use of this drug is known widely. One other thing that isn't known as well is that HCQ was a reason Germany didn't let it's citizens travel to Turkey, and excluded it from the safe travel locations list.On the vaccene, I again didn't see a day when I would agree partially with Akman, but it has come. This vaccene, people are naturally really impatient for one, and one is being rushed out as fast as possible. This would increase the possibility that it won't be tested as thoroughly as vaccenes normally are, and that it could have severe side effects affecting several populations. For this reason, I will hold off getting it when it comes out, until it has been tried in alot of people, and the adverse effects are widely known. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551494/#p551494 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? But Enes, don't you realize that boiling it down to only life and death makes it easier to ignore and consequently easier to justify just going back to the way it was, dang it?Don't you realize that this truth you shared is awfully inconvenient? There isn't enough sand in the world for my head to bury itself in anymore.Don't you realize that the economy is how we define ourselves as westerners? I mean, this individuality nonsense, this sanctity of life business, is highly overrated, isn't it? If you can't oil the machine, then you aren't worth anything, really, are you? So the economy just about has to start back up, some way, somehow, because that's all we know and it's all we cling to and we're going just about nuts without it.Clearly, this writer, Frank what's-his-face, is just a leftist lunatic with an agenda who's probably lying about his numbers. We don't shut the country down because of cancer, and Covid kills fewer than cancer does, so until cancer becomes contagious, we're just living in fear and overreacting. It's all a plot to unseat Donald Trump; it's too convenient to be otherwise.If you look at the big picture - no, not the real big picture, just the bits I want you to focus on, full of personal anecdotes and fallacious reasoning, -that big picture - you'll see that I'm right, and that you posting that link just shows that the fear has got to you too.And yes, for anyone who can't understand irony, this is meant to be satirical. Don't come in here howling because you think I changed my tune over a three-day stretch. I assure you that I didn't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551488/#p551488 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Here is an answer on Quara for those who truly wonder why we shut everything down and "didn't let everyone die for 1% deaths". I think it touches on some very important points, namely those who survive, but are mamed. https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-disease … pHTvoIYutU URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551479/#p551479 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @ Accman, I personally already knew about this, however this is just the tip of a iceberg. A lot of people sadly, don't see it, but its so obvious, if you open your eyes, that is. Not to go off topic here, but... mainstream media anyone? Notice any similar trends in the things we watch? E.g, canibolism, which-craft, just to mention a few? Start analysing the things you watch and listen to... Its not what it seems on the surface, it has a deeper meaning. Speaking of media... anyone here watched the movie contagen? If not, atch it; then compare the movie to the shit that is going on today with the corona virus. its not coincidence. Going back to the vaccine article though; I don't get it. How can then poison people without... killing them outright? Unless it is bit by bit, but the shit people do for profit... Hense my miss-trust of people in power. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551010/#p551010 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @ Accman, I personally already knew about this, however this is just the tip of a iceberg. A lot of people sadly, don't see it, but its so obvious, if you open your eyes, that is. Not to go off topic here, but... mainstream media anyone? Notice any similar trends in the things we watch? E.g, canibolism, which-craft, just to mention a few? Start analysing the things you watch and listen to... Its not what it seems on the surface, it has a deeper meaning. Speaking of media... anyone here watched the movie contagen? If not, atch it; then compare the movie to the shit that is going on today with the corona virus. its not coincidence. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551010/#p551010 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @ Accman, I personally already knew about this, however this is just the tip of a iceberg. A lot of people sadly, don't see it, but its so obvious, if you open your eyes, that is. Not to go off topic here, but... mainstream media anyone? Notice any similar trends in the things we watch? E.g, canibolism, which-craft, just to mention a few? Start analysing the things you watch and listen to... Its not what it seems on the surface, it has a deeper meaning. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551010/#p551010 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Since this subject of vaccines has come up, here is something that I thought I'd share here for your consideration. There are some compelling points made in this, so that's why I thought I'd drop this here for you so you'd be able to look into it for yourselves.https://home.solari.com/deep-state-tact … a-vaccine/I will not say that you must agree with the information in this article, but at least that you please take it into consideration before outright dismissing it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551004/#p551004 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? I won't be chomping at the bit for the vaccine the instant it becomes available either. Mistakes happen. Complications will inevitably arise. That said, I'm not in a vulnerable population at the moment, though I may be working with one by the time the vaccine comes out. I will absolutely maintain other practices, however, since if I'm not going to jump on the vaccine at the first opportunity, I need to do my part to make sure others don't get sick from me, and to keep myself safe in the bargain. In any case, I won't refuse the vaccine forever. Anti-vax is, at best, paranoid, and at worst it's just getting people killed. Most anti-vax advocates rely on questionable anecdotal evidence to support their stances, and it just doesn't stand up to rigorous testing and logic most of the time. I personally can't imagine, however, a world where I not only ignore health and safety guidelines, but also ignore a vaccine. I'd expect my friends and family to tell me that I was practically begging to get sick or hurt somebody, and I'd have no defense for that line of attack. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550976/#p550976 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? even if president Trump is the one who signs this thing into legislation, I won't be taking it when it comes out. It will be interesting once a vaccine does come out to see how that's going to be handled.Case in point regarding medicines, I can remember an instance where I had an infection. I was probably about eleven years old when this happened. I went and got it taken care of, and followed the prescription the doctor had ordered. Well, I spent practically the next week home from school with something like the stomach flu. I stopped taking the medicine once we realized it might be causing that as a side-effect, and the problem went away within the day. Don't get me wrong, staying home from school and playing video games and things was kind of cool. However, that's no way to do it. My God did that ever suck. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550903/#p550903 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? keep in mind that Trump said that the vaccine was going to be "fast-tracked" and have "red tape cut out." On one hand, that means it will be to us faster. That is a good thing. However, those prhases also mean "not tested as thoroughly," And there have been cases where medicines have been worse than the diseases they wer emeant to fight.I will get the vaccine, but not until its effects are well understood, which means I won't be clawing at the door to get mine right away. The drugs trump was touting have also largely been proven to be duds or worse, and if you injected yourself with disinfectant you would die or at least be severely poisoned. That is what disinfectant is. ItDisinfectants are poisons that are hostile to life but aren't in high enough quantities to severely hurt humans from casual content due to small amounts and things like our skin, you inject them however, and all bets are off, same with eating or drinking them as our president has suggested we do. Anyway, even with the "fast-track" a true vaccine is a good way away, so I'll just keep taking the safety measures I need to take to keep it from spreading to me, or god forbid, from me and as it will shorten the span of the pandemic, trying to convince those around me to do the same. You aren't putting yourself at risk from wearing a mask or staying 6 feet away from people, so there's no harm in that and I don't have to worry about nasty side effects. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550832/#p550832 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @ Accman, agree with you on the vaccine point. I, personally, am not gunna get it until we know what's in it. If people are willing to take said vaxine when it comes out... its on them, but I, personally don't trust the higher ups. It has been shown time and time again that in most cases they don't have the people's interests at heart so... No. I'll just say this, if I get corona and die as a result... It was my time, and when its your time to go, nothing you, or anyone else does, can stop it so yeah. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550813/#p550813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Thanks for sharing that link. I did find it interesting, but it didn't really have any information. Neither the article or itself, or the one it links you to, provide any specific details on the findings. Furthermore, the writer of the first article is, more or less, expressing an opinion when saying the words "I'm glad". Those words, "I'm glad", express an opinion and he has every right to hold that opinion. I'll agree that these drugs haven't had perfect results, but they haven't entirely failed either.Thanks again for sharing that though. I want to check that site out a bit more, looks like there should be some interesting content to check out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550799/#p550799 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06 … d-19-drugsHave a gander at that link. It's a starting point. And when you're done there, check this out:https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/navar … loroquine/For what it's worth, I'm glad I'm not a virologist either. It's a dizzying amount of info. What it looks like, though, is that one study with problems should never have been cited by Trump or anyone else as something people should be banking on.That's not even really the problem though. If Trump had had faith in something that didn't look harmful, and it turned out to be a bust, that's not awful in its own right.But it gets worse. Check this out:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177If you read this article, you'll see that Trump is essentially asking if putting UV light or disinfectants directly into the body can possibly kill Covid-19. And this is absolutely, categorically a foolish and dangerous thing to be caught saying, ever, in public if you run a country. Trump ought to know by now that there are enough idiotic Americans who would take that idea and run with it. If he didn't know that then, then he's even stupider than I imagined.Because let's be real here. I have known that you don't want to ingest bleach or rubbing alcohol since I was, oh, I dunno, about five or so, when I was caught sniffing a bottle of rubbing alcohol and shouted at because it was poisonous. right then, my mom explained to me what it was for, and that I must never drink it. I have since done plenty of research on the effects of these sorts of things on the body. You can get away with drinking rubbing alcohol if you're lucky, but the body will break it down into chemicals that don't kill infection, and you'll risk your life for nothing. Bleach is far, far worse, and can straight-up kill you by dissolving the mucosal membranes in your mouth, throat, esophagus and stomach, not to mention your trachea and lungs. While disinfectants and UV light have an effect on the Sars CoV2 virus itself outside the body, the effects inside the body are an entirely different matter.If Mr. Trump truly didn't know any of this, then the proper time and place to get his facts straight is away from the eye of the public. Because what he did - the quotes speak for themselves - is intimate that he thinks using these substances within the body might work. He doesn't come straight out and say so, but he leads it pretty nicely.This, I think, is what people talk about when they say that Trump is an idiot about disinfectants. Hydroxochloroquine, after all, is not a disinfectant; it's an antimalarial drug. We must not confuse the issue by attempting to mislead. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550778/#p550778 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06 … d-19-drugsHave a gander at that link. It's a starting point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550778/#p550778 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Careful Accman, you'll be labeled now as an Anti-vaxer and anti-science and anti-everything! Lol. Because progression trumps caution every time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550762/#p550762 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Trump was suggesting the use of Hydroxychloroquine, a different type of formula than what some think he was suggesting. there have been studies on this that show it works quite well. Here are the findings of one that I had come across, this wasn't published all that long ago.https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/ … ment-studyIn short, there is no one way that is going to be perfect in dealing with this. I certainly won't be getting whatever vaccine they come up with, not until I can see the insert that tells me every ingredient that it includes along with information about those ingredients. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550754/#p550754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? He hasn't entirely turned on us and the bill is not law yet. It's got three weeks yet before that happens, and it's entirely possible we end up having it destroyed because we've done that before. Ford has tried stupid shit before and has found himself stopped when there's enough public outcry. The premier is powerful, but he's only a provincial leader. This is something our country's leader would never do, IMO, so while it definitely looks bad, it's nowhere near as nasty as you might think.And hey. The way I figure it, we've got a premier in Ontario who was arguing for far too long with teachers, who definitely has interest in real estate over individuals, and who generally represents a center-right agenda. But we don't have someone in charge who will gas peaceful protestors. We don't have someone in charge who cares more about ratings than lives. We don't have someone in charge who has suggested drinking antiseptic to help cure Covid-19. We don't have someone in charge who ignores the good advice of health experts. In a side-by-side comparison of Ford vs. Trump, neither is much good, but we've got an enormous upper hand there. If I had to choose between the two, it's Ford every time. No question. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550577/#p550577 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? One thing our president did not do is reverse any decisions to allow people to stay in their apartments, or homes that they own, without fear of being evicted. That actually seems to be one area on which our country seems to agree. I remember hearing that in one of the briefings where that question had been brought up, and there was mention at that briefing from the president that he had no intentions of seeing people getting evicted or facing the possibility of foreclosure because of this. I am not sure how each individual state is handling it, but I do remember in the beginning of all of this there was mention that measures were being put into affect to make sure this wouldn't happen. That sucks that Ford turned on you guys like that. I hope things work out there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550555/#p550555 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Lest anyone wonder if I'm only interested in troubles abroad, I'm not.The premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, is someone whose policies I have generally disagreed with. He's center-right on the left-right axis, and used to be referred to as Mini Trump. He was never quite so self-deluded as the American president, but he definitely had some of the same rhetoric. I'll give him some credit, however: since the pandemic started, he has been deferring to health officials, being transparent and being straightforward. A lot of the stuff that's had people mad at him - and for extremely good reason, I might add - has been put aside for the moment because we've all got bigger fish to fry. We're going to be feeling the impact of this pandemic for years...though personally, I'd rather see that impact than the hundreds of thousands of extra deaths that would have resulted from a lack of shutdowns, physical distancing, and the mandatory wearing of masks in public places. The way I see it, we may never have done a shutdown on this level before, but the lower death tolls and better response curve is going to speak for itself. If we'd had the forethought to try this sort of thing in previous pandemics, we would have seen even smaller impact than what we ultimately ran into. Math and stats don't lie.So okay, I wasn't sold on Ford, and will never vote for the man, because I haven't forgotten what he's been doing, but I was (and am) willing to give credit where it's due.Well, imagine my surprise *read: lack of surprise) when he tries to walk back a bill that was passed in March protecting tenants from quick evictions due to nonpayment of rent. This bill essentially protects folks who can't pay rent due to Covid-related complications from being put on the street; Ford's latest action here wants to get rid of those protections, and after doing some research into the proposition, I've got to say it looks pretty grim for him. It's also doubly sneaky because now he appears to have won the public trust. I'm definitely going to make a point of making sure that folks in Ontario (since that's where this will come into effect) know about this. I'd hate to see it slip into law because nobody knew and nobody responded with enough force before it happens.To me, this is just proof that Ford really does not care about citizens. He cares about people who have more money, and cares more about making sure people pay rent than making sure they, y'know, stay alive and safe. One of the toxicities of the right, IMO. I think it's affected me as much as it has because I saw some good signs from this man throughout the past few months; as I said, I was never going to align with him, but I can admit when even someone I don't like or agree with does something right, and he did. So this feels a bit like being shot in the back by someone trying to earn your trust. I'll say this for a majority of leftists, at least: they're not going to backshoot you. If anything, they're going to be obnoxiously loud and in your face about exactly what they plan to do, and how they plan to do it. I prefer honesty over deceit, pretty much every time.Also just wanted to tack something onto the end of my post, since a friend shared this and I think it's absolutely fucking brilliant.What kind of backward do you have to be to endorse a world in which wearing a mask is a violation of rights, but controlling a woman's uterus is a proper function of government? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550540/#p550540 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Lest anyone wonder if I'm only interested in troubles abroad, I'm not.The premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, is someone whose policies I have generally disagreed with. He's center-right on the left-right axis, and used to be referred to as Mini Trump. He was never quite so self-deluded as the American president, but he definitely had some of the same rhetoric. I'll give him some credit, however: since the pandemic started, he has been deferring to health officials, being transparent and being straightforward. A lot of the stuff that's had people mad at him - and for extremely good reason, I might add - has been put aside for the moment because we've all got bigger fish to fry. We're going to be feeling the impact of this pandemic for years...though personally, I'd rather see that impact than the hundreds of thousands of extra deaths that would have resulted from a lack of shutdowns, physical distancing, and the mandatory wearing of masks in public places. The way I see it, we may never have done a shutdown on this level before, but the lower death tolls and better response curve is going to speak for itself. If we'd had the forethought to try this sort of thing in previous pandemics, we would have seen even smaller impact than what we ultimately ran into. Math and stats don't lie.So okay, I wasn't sold on Ford, and will never vote for the man, because I haven't forgotten what he's been doing, but I was (and am) willing to give credit where it's due.Well, imagine my surprise *read: lack of surprise) when he tries to walk back a bill that was passed in March protecting tenants from quick evictions due to nonpayment of rent. This bill essentially protects folks who can't pay rent due to Covid-related complications from being put on the street; Ford's latest action here wants to get rid of those protections, and after doing some research into the proposition, I've got to say it looks pretty grim for him. It's also doubly sneaky because now he appears to have won the public trust. I'm definitely going to make a point of making sure that folks in Ontario (since that's where this will come into effect) know about this. I'd hate to see it slip into law because nobody knew and nobody responded with enough force before it happens.To me, this is just proof that Ford really does not care about citizens. He cares about people who have more money, and cares more about making sure people pay rent than making sure they, y'know, stay alive and safe. One of the toxicities of the right, IMO. I think it's affected me as much as it has because I saw some good signs from this man throughout the past few months; as I said, I was never going to align with him, but I can admit when even someone I don't like or agree with does something right, and he did. So this feels a bit like being shot in the back by someone trying to earn your trust. I'll say this for a majority of leftists, at least: they're not going to backshoot you. If anything, they're going to be obnoxiously loud and in your face about exactly what they plan to do, and how they plan to do it. I prefer honesty over deceit, pretty much every time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550540/#p550540 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? I will keep what you said in mind Bookrage, I just hope and pray that others will do likewise. As I keep saying, there are an awful lot of standards being thrown around from the mask brigade, so that's why I don't take them seriously. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550388/#p550388 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Impressive Jade. Everything you said in that last post is completely wrong. I can't believe you actually used that conspiracy theorist cop-out again. That is a mighty convenient way to dodge the notion that you could be mistaken, and one that the left favors implicitly. As for my family and I getting sick, it's already happened this year. It might have been COVID-19, and it may not have been. It's hard to say because it shares so many symptoms with other common ailments, but the point is that we dealt with it, we stayed home until it was over, and we all recovered perfectly. By the way, you keep bringing up the pandemic of 1918 and how bad it was. You know as well as I do that sanitation back then was nothing like we have now, and I don't remember hearing about the great shut-down of 1918. The same goes with the flu pandemic of 1968. Where was the great shut-down of 1968? Oh that's right, it never happened even though a million people or more died from the flu. I could be wrong, but I think that a million died in the U.S. alone. I am not sure how it affected other nations. Either way, there was no shut-down of all businesses either. We have more cases each new day, but the rate of deaths per day is dropping steadily, and that's good news because we're starting to develop immunity to this. Am I saying that we're out of the woods yet? Hell no, that's not what I am saying at all. However, when you have the CDC even saying that this virus is getting to the point where it will loose it epidemic status here in the United States I think it can be said that we're getting somewhere. I also don't appreciate very much your assertions that it would, or could, be my fault when someone who comes in contact with me gets this virus. How do you know that's how they'd get it? What makes you think they didn't have it already? Statements like that are built on fear and speculation, nothing more. In short, there is nothing to be gained by continuing this. At least I can rest in the knowledge that I never actually tried to force you to do what you didn't think was best for yourself. I've repeatedly stated that if you want to follow the regulations in the name of personally feeling safe that you ought to do it if that works for you. You, on the other hand, have gone out of the way to accuse me of being selfish when I haven't even forced anything upon you. All I have tried to do is inform, but it was seen as selfishness. Again, as I said before, I'd look in that proverbial mirror a bit more closely and see who is actually being selfish here.This argument is done, I have no problem agreeing with that. However, if it is done, then do as I would like to do and stop trying to force me to follow a regulation I don't feel is necessary by guilt-tripping me, or implying that I am selfish. If I see more of that, I am not going to be silent about it. Just do what you're going to do, and leave it at that. One size does not fit all. That's true with education, and it is especially true with how we deal with this virus. Remember that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550376/#p550376 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? It's not just America, it's all over the world. Even in a small country like Romania conspiracy theories seem to be gaining ground quickly and more and more people start rebelling against the rules. Yesterday and today we registered the highest number of cases in 24 hours and authorities say this is the second peak, a peak that has already surpassed the first in terms of cases registered daily. And all of this happens because many people confused less restrictions with no restrictions and went to the beaches, organised huge parties and did everything just as before, without taking the most elementary precautions.I fear that we will all be infected one day if a vaccine isn't developed quickly, however the most important thing is to limit the spread to as few as possible because I don't think we can stop it completely. Masks are a great help regarding this. Of course they are not 100% effective but even 1% is better than nothing and could make a difference for millions. Just immagine that 3% of the world population would die, that's an insanely high number and noone even wants to think about taking responsibility for it so this is why we must try to limit the spread as much as possible until a vaccine is developed.What I noticed about conspiracy theorists though is that they are good at criticising the actual measures but fail spectacularly when asked about what measures should be implemented. They think about people just as numbers and herd immunity is their excuse for millions of deaths. I think it was Sven Hassel that said in one of his books that a few deaths can be a tragedy for the world but when the numbers are high it's just a statistic and everyone treats it as such. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550368/#p550368 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? you're right about this being a pointless project, but before I go, let me give you guys a basic American civics lesson that some people seem to forget.You are given vast rights in America. However, your rights end where the rights of others stop. By using "free speech" or whatever to not wear a mask, you are potentially infringing on others' right to life in the danger that potentially causes. Unlike "Free Speech" which can be restored after emergency restrictions, right to life cannot be restored after someone has died.When you talk of rights, keep that in mind. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550303/#p550303 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @Accman. People like you are the people that spreads the virus. Why cant you just ware a mask? its that simple. I dont get why americans cant follow this simple rule. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550243/#p550243 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Guys, I have a solution to this.Ignore Accman, otally and completely. Don't offer help or advice. Don't offer further criticism. Don't offer support if things go badly. He's made his bed, so let's let him lie in it now.He's convinced himself that since masks aren't perfect, they aren't worthwhile.He's convinced himself that being made to do something is some sort of mortal sin even though he presumably is fine with most laws against things like killing and stealing, since those laws help people.He's convinced himself that there is science to suggest that not wearing a mask is mathematically comparable with wearing one.He's convinced himself that we just need to let a disease that kills people run its course instead of taking steps to limit its spread. Aren't you glad he's not a virologist? I know I am.At the end of the day, there is no arguing with this. People will do stupid things if they're bound and determined, and in essence, we've been doing little but reinforce. I'm sorry for that. I get wrapped up in trying to help people see that they're being foolish, and I sometimes fail to realize that I'm actually reinforcing their dangerous behaviour. So logic won't work. I'm done. Because when Accman's behaviour hurts somebody, I don't want to later be told that it was my insistence that made him stick to his guns. Accman, for your sake, I hope you see reason before you and yours get sick, or before you do direct and measurable harm to someone. I also hope you learn the meaning of common courtesy. I'm also glad you don't own one of those small businesses you claim to want to be in support of.But yeah. My recommendation is simple. We know we're right. Let's stop arguing with the conspiracy theorist. Let's stop granting him indirect legitimacy by engaging with his ideas. It takes two or more people to argue, so let's end the argument on our own terms. Speaking personally, that's what I intend to do going forward. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550216/#p550216 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Bookrage, you can't make money forcing people to do anything they do not feel they should be required to do. That's taking decision power out of the individual, and basically forcing them to conform or not be served. That's segregation, and behavior that becomes someone of the Nazi mindset and doctrine. It is also a very good way for businesses to loose money because they ultimately do not have any constitutional authority to put that in place.You may say that wearing a mask does not decrease what you can do in a business, but in fact it can and does depending on said business. Again, it all comes down to the individual. You can't take the right to decide away from the individual. That's why I say that if someone wants to wear one then they should do so if that is what makes them feel safe. It is up to you, no one else. You're an adult and can make that choice for yourself. It is a scientifically known fact that masks do not eliminate the spreading of this, or any, virus. If you're sick, then wear one by all means. I am healthy, so I will not. That's my choice. No one close to me has yet been infected, but I have prepared myself for the possibility of that occurring. And yes, if that person I know is infected, it would still be only a part of a small percentage of the overall population. I will not be made to put everything on hold for that as the risk of such a thing can be true with much more than just this virus. Showing common courtesy is a two-way street. When someone makes me feel that I have to do it and I have no choice, then I will not because I simply will not be made to do something against my will like that. Again, if I made them wear a blind-fold, would they do it just to make me feel better, like they understand what it is like to be me? No, I wouldn't because I have too much respect for other people to make them do that. Yes, someone's going to say that has nothing to do with this. I used it to demonstrate a principle, hold your fire. If I'm selfish for deciding not to wear the stupid mask, then what does that make you who accuse me of being selfish. Sounds like we have, yet again, a double-standard here. That's an argument that is very becoming of a socialist. You might not be one, but I'm saying that is the logic they would follow. If you are making me feel like I have to do this, then you're as selfish as you make me out to be, and there's no way around it. If you want to live in fear of something you may, or may not ever catch, and something you may, or may not, ever spread then do it. That's your right to make that choice. I won't be selfish and keep you from making that choice. If you, or anyone else, wants to guilt-trip or force me into wearing this mask, then I'd say I'm not the one who is being selfish. I'm merely trying to inform people by providing information that they might not have, and am not going to make you do anything, so if what I'm doing is selfish then maybe you conformists need to look in the mirror a bit more closely before you go jumping to more conclusions that you're being programmed with. Remember, I will inform you of things, but I will not make you do anything as what you do with it is none of my business. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550203/#p550203 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @Jayde, A little off-topic, but that CBC link you provided reminded me of when I was a young boy watching Canadian cartoons like Bo on the Go, Arthur, and I think it was called DoodleBops. Gosh the animation styles were difinately something different.Back on point. So I listened to Accman's link, and I've never heard anything more politically motivated ever. Its like the guy took every single consperacy theory and clumped it all into 1 giant ideal. And anyone who tells you that consuming silver is dumb. Cherry picking now, and Accman, the guy did say that he believes that the WHO are lying, and he actually believes that A-Semptimatic people can spread it, so you're disproved by your own source.Eitherways, have a good night folks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550187/#p550187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? well, you said above that running at 100% capacity and such is "making a living." 1. you can still make money requiring masks, in fact, keeping a workforce and consumer base healthy does a lot to foster money-making.2. wearing a mask does not decrease what you can do in a business, but it does decrease the spread of the virus. As I said, it's a real unbalanced thing on possible downsides with inconvenience on one side and possible death and prolonging of the pandemic on the other if masks aren't worn.also, it isn't just a small percentage if it's someone you know that gets infected is it? I bet if it was a family member who got the virus from being around someone who wasn't wearing a mask, those numbers aren't quite as cold and distant. Remember, when you look at just the numbers, you are callously ignoring all those who are in that category, and 130k, or less if we are going to question the reporting, but even with your numbers it is still significant. It isn't putting your life on hold dude for you wearing a mask, it is showing common courtesy and decent concern for others and not being a selfish entitled person which is why America is doing so much worse than most of the rest of the world because there are too many selfish people who are worried about foggy glasses and a little humidity and heat on their faces more than hurting other poeple.It's really disgusting really.and anyway, you haven't denied that masks help stop the spread of the virus to an extent, so there is no justification other than selfishness for not wearing one unless you have some sort of health condition that means you can't wear one personally. You are saying you will not take a basic step to protect people with the only justification you have given is it is uncomfortable and you don't want to. That shows a solid and rather disturbing lack of consideration for the safety of others. If you believed that masks didn't work at all, I could get it, but you haven't said that and you have admitted that they work.and it's not even a big deal for you really. I have a freaking traichiotomy so I have to wear not only a mask but a scarf as well when I go out, even though it is in the 90s where I am. so stop your darn wining and suck it up.yes, whether masks are used or not, the pandemic will pass, but how many die before it does is going to really be determined by how safe we are aand how much we look to protect one another. If we use masks and social distancing, the pandemic will end faster and with fewer deaths and will also pop up in smaller clusters when it re-emerges (which it will as a carona virus as there are other kinds of this virus that have come out before) but if we do not take steps, the pandemic outbreak will be with us longer and more will die, both from a higher infection rate and from the longer duration of the outbreak. If you are eager to get back to normal, you should really do what you can in your own way to keep it from spreading, then the infection will die out faster and you'll be able to get back to your life in a more normal way faster.Even if you want to "live your life" you really have your best interest served in the long term by putting up with masks and social distancing now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550182/#p550182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? well, you said above that running at 100% capacity and such is "making a living." 1. you can still make money requiring masks, in fact, keeping a workforce and consumer base healthy does a lot to foster money-making.2. wearing a mask does not decrease what you can do in a business, but it does decrease the spread of the virus. As I said, it's a real unbalanced thing on possible downsides with inconvenience on one side and possible death and prolonging of the pandemic on the other if masks aren't worn.also, it isn't just a small percentage if it's someone you know that gets infected is it? I bet if it was a family member who got the virus from being around someone who wasn't wearing a mask, those numbers aren't quite as cold and distant. Remember, when you look at just the numbers, you are callously ignoring all those who are in that category, and 130k, or less if we are going to question the reporting, but even with your numbers it is still significant. It isn't putting your life on hold dude for you wearing a mask, it is showing common courtesy and decent concern for others and not being a selfish entitled person which is why America is doing so much worse than most of the rest of the world because there are too many selfish people who are worried about foggy glasses and a little humidity and heat on their faces more than hurting other poeple.It's really disgusting really.and anyway, you haven't denied that masks help stop the spread of the virus to an extent, so there is no justification other than selfishness for not wearing one unless you have some sort of health condition that means you can't wear one personally. You are saying you will not take a basic step to protect people with the only justification you have given is it is uncomfortable and you don't want to. That shows a solid and rather disturbing lack of consideration for the safety of others. If you believed that masks didn't work at all, I could get it, but you haven't said that and you have admitted that they work.and it's not even a big deal for you really. I have a freaking traichiotomy so I have to wear not only a mask but a scarf as well when I go out, even though it is in the 90s where I am. so stop your darn wining and suck it up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550182/#p550182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? well, you said above that running at 100% capacity and such is "making a living." 1. you can still make money requiring masks, in fact, keeping a workforce and consumer base healthy does a lot to foster money-making.2. wearing a mask does not decrease what you can do in a business, but it does decrease the spread of the virus. As I said, it's a real unbalanced thing on possible downsides with inconvenience on one side and possible death and prolonging of the pandemic on the other if masks aren't worn.also, it isn't just a small percentage if it's someone you know that gets infected is it? I bet if it was a family member who got the virus from being around someone who wasn't wearing a mask, those numbers aren't quite as cold and distant. Remember, when you look at just the numbers, you are callously ignoring all those who are in that category, and 130k, or less if we are going to question the reporting, but even with your numbers it is still significant. It isn't putting your life on hold dude for you wearing a mask, it is showing common courtesy and decent concern for others and not being a selfish entitled person which is why America is doing so much worse than most of the rest of the world because there are too many selfish people who are worried about foggy glasses and a little humidity and heat on their faces more than hurting other poeple.It's really disgusting really.and anyway, you haven't denied that masks help stop the spread of the virus to an extent, so there is no justification other than selfishness for not wearing one unless you have some sort of health condition that means you can't wear one personally. You are saying you will not take a basic step to protect people with the only justification you have given is it is uncomfortable and you don't want to. That shows a solid and rather disturbing lack of consideration for the safety of others. If you believed that masks didn't work at all, I could get it, but you haven't said that and you have admitted that they work. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550182/#p550182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? well, you said above that running at 100% capacity and such is "making a living." 1. you can still make money requiring masks, in fact, keeping a workforce and consumer base healthy does a lot to foster money-making.2. wearing a mask does not decrease what you can do in a business, but it does decrease the spread of the virus. As I said, it's a real unbalanced thing on possible downsides with inconvenience on one side and possible death and prolonging of the pandemic on the other if masks aren't worn.also, it isn't just a small percentage if it's someone you know that gets infected is it? I bet if it was a family member who got the virus from being around someone who wasn't wearing a mask, those numbers aren't quite as cold and distant. Remember, when you look at just the numbers, you are callously ignoring all those who are in that category, and 130k, or less if we are going to question the reporting, but even with your numbers it is still significant. It isn't putting your life on hold dude for you wearing a mask, it is showing common courtesy and decent concern for others and not being a selfish entitled person which is why America is doing so much worse than most of the rest of the world because there are too many selfish people who are worried about foggy glasses and a little humidity and heat on their faces more than hurting other poeple.It's really disgusting really. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550182/#p550182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Jade, do you hear yourself? You're talking about 1918, and while that was terrible, I'm talking about 2020. I am well aware of what happened in 1918, more so than what they teach our kids about it in schools now since many textbooks don't really mention much about it which is why it is commonly known as the forgotten pandemic. Oh, and while I may hold a right-wing position, I don't value corporation. In fact, I value small businesses over most corporations. However, that's not what we're talking about just now.I am not ignoring science either. I might be ignoring your version of it, but I am not ignoring science, and am, in fact, basing all decisions that I make on science.and, no one else puts there lives on hold for me, I don't want them to do so either as I have no right to expect that. Thus, I won't put my life on hold for the rest of society based on a small number of deaths in terms of its percentage. You say I don't argue the facts, and you hold to that like its a lifeline for you. Truth is that I do base my every decision on facts, and you know what, I and those around me are still alive. I am choosing to use my right of thinking for myself. I know how to stay safe, and I know how to keep other safe while I am at it. If someone gets this virus, there are literally hundreds of thousands of others who could have given it to that person.I am, at this very moment, listening to an interview with a woman who is in a nursing home, is not sickly at all, and has not been permitted to go out since March. Nursing homes like this won't even let family visitors, masked though they would be, visit their loved ones. This lady wants to go visit her daughter, but is also told that she would have to stay there until this is all over, when ever that is. Afterwords, she could come back. Her husband also lives there, and this would mean she would be apart from him. They are, in essence, making her choose between her husband and her daughter over this virus that you, and so many others, are worried about. She is, like many others out there, a prisoner in all senses of the word. Physically, she is fine. However, she, like so many of the other residents in places like this, have no activities, no visitors except through a glass window, and no idea of when things are going to end because the owners follow the rules of the state governments. This is why I am telling you, in truth, that this thing is going to result in deaths that will be way more tragic than the COVID-19 deaths. That is the reality of it. So, in the name of a virus that doesn't pose a major threat scientifically speaking, you're welcoming in a prison state with no idea of when it might end. So, yes I do know what I am talking about. You don't agree with it, and I get that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550102/#p550102 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Because that worked so well in 1918's influenza pandemic. And that worked even better back when almost two-thirds of Europe died to the bubonic and pneumonic plagues, right? I ask again: jesus, do you even know what you're saying anymore?You can't argue with facts. Masks aren't perfect, but not wearing a mask is no defense at all. Numerically, it's like this. Let's assume that masks are only 10% effective (they're probably higher, but let's use a low number that won't offend your tender sensibilities). So if you wear a mask, that's a 10% resistance to you getting sick, and a 10% lesser likelihood that others get sick from you if you are carrying and end up transmitting. If you are without a mask, that protection is 0. If you think your precious American patriotism is any protection against this virus, go talk to the hundred and thirty-odd thousand dead Americans killed by Covid-19 and ask them how well their patriotism served them. I am thoroughly done being gentle and sympathetic with you.The simple fact remains that you want to live your life. Cool. So while you're at it, admit that by doing so in the way you intend, you're valuing that life over virtually everyone else's, to such an extent that you'll ignore science if it suits you to do so. You are, at this point, an embodiment of one of our greatest criticisms of the right wing. They value institutions, corporations and the status quo over individuals. That's you, right down to the ground. If the mask fits... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550085/#p550085 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Ph, and Jade, you're no authority on my safety or that of anyone else either. so, no I will not "cut the crap". When I see that the number of COVID-19 deaths matches the number of unborn that we have murdered, over 70,000,000, since that became legal, then I'll start hearing you about doing any regulation you like. Until then, and there won't be a then with this virus I am sure, I will not have governments, or anyone else, telling me about what I need to do to be safe. I know how to keep myself safe, and how to keep others safe. As I said before, this is going to spread, but the death-rate will be no where near what people think. Will more get sick? I'm sure that will be the case, but that's how viruses work. Even with your mask and all of its vaunted protection, that virus is very small. It will get through the pores in the material of your mask. Unless that thing is air-tight, you're still going to get it, and there are doctors, real doctors, that would validate what I've said there. Let's go back to school, let's go back to work, and let's catch this thing and get it over with so we'll have an established immunity to it. Let's have science run its natural course and deal with it like we've always done with other viruses. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550082/#p550082 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? That's my point. He died of cancer, and it was marked down as COVID-19. He did not have the virus. I know that this virus is serious, but so is the flu, so is every other disease out there. Restaurant owners want their places running at full capacity because that's how they make their money. It's called making a living, and running a business. Virus's be damned, we've got to keep living our lives, and we can't do that with these restrictions.Now, regarding news sources we don't trust. At least the article I provided did provide sources. We just saw an update from one of our main news outlets here, and the wouldn't site their sources. How convenient is that. One thing I will blast both liberal and conservative media outlets for is this. They can't expect to be taken seriously if they won't provide the sources they talk about. You can't just say it was a well placed source, or some inside source. Yes, that article provided a link to a tweet as one if the sources, but at least it gave one the ability to see that source. Now, personally I do not take news seriously that comes from social media platforms of any sort. I will consider those sources, but am not apt to take them seriously due to those platforms being really picky about what they now will allow since it just might be something they don't agree with. This virus will spread whether you're masked or not. We will build an immunity to it just as we have so many other things. Yes, more people are testing positive. Newsflash, it's a virus! There have been more cases, but for the majority of the population it has no affect. I'm done having my life put on hold for that which we can do nothing about. More people are dying every day than those which this virus is blamed for. I am tired of a media that has no idea how to report things properly, and who just needs to shove the fear-based narrative down our throats. last week we lost over 33,000 Americans to other diseases. That is ten times the number of COVID-19 deaths from that same week. Let's get real because if we don't we're going to have a lot worse than a few COVID-19 deaths on our hands. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550081/#p550081 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Also, someone who's going through chemo or radiation is in no fit state to fight off that virus in any meaningful way. As stated, hospitals are not great places to be unless you absolutely must go there.Accman, the only relevant piece of your latest post that I'm going to focus on - because the rest is a waste of my time and yours - is this.You say that I should do what makes me safe, and you'll do what makes you safe.That's not right. I'll do what makes me safe. You'll do what validates your political opinion and makes you feel good. We've already demonstrated over and over that masks are better than nothing, by a good margin, when it comes to the stop of transmission. This means that by refusing to wear them, you are increasing your own risk of being infected, and increasing the odds that you pass the infection to someone else, whether you realize you've done it or not. After all, your news source, which is dubious enough as it is, doesn't actually say that people without symptoms can't pass the virus. Learn the difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic; there's a reason this whole field of study actually contains experts instead of armchair warriors.In other words, cut the crap. You aren't increasing your safety at all. Your self-righteousness, maybe, or your peace of mind, sure, but not your safety. That ship sailed the moment you put your foot down about not wearing a mask.As I said, if the mask fits, just fucking wear it already.Game. Set. Match. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550060/#p550060 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? right now, hospitals aren't a good place to be. I have an elderly friend who is putting off needed reconstructive surgeries to stay out of hospitals even though she's living with a lot of pain.Also, I imagine those who don't look closely at the issues are saying that social distancing isn't being addressed. This is simply not true, our governor reminds us a lot and has told the protestors that if they continue to protest in the manner they have been, they'll put themselves and everyone else at risk and even if they clean up their act some, he recommends they get tested because of the big gatherings. He's not even against the protestors and is openly supporting them and he still is saying that.Public health officials are also saying that we need to do that left and right. The reason most of us aren't witnessing a lot of social distancing isn't because of a lack of mentioning and stressing that it needs to be done but rather that nobody is listening. People are running off in my state to crowd movie theaters, diners are suing the government because they aren't allowed to put everyone at risk by running at 100% capacity, and businesses that somehow think public safety guidelines are simply a political issue devised as part of the "liberal agenda" aren't putting any safeguards in place. Resurants in my community have had to be completely shut down in my community as lack of safeguards or lack of following them has caused every employee at the place to become sick. The infection rate of this virus is no joke.As for the cancer thing, you can't apply anecdotal evidence to a larger sample without more evidence than what the article contains, particularly because it is not written in a way that is seriously journalistic or professional, which brings its credibility into question or at least suggests that it is politically motivated rather than motivated as a means of providing accurate information. Try reading articles you find like this aloud, if you find your voice becoming energetic, rising, or speeding up, it probably isn't there to inform you but rather to evoke a non-critical emotional response. I like to analyze political ads and how they sound when campaign season comes around for elections and both parties don't really want you to be thinking critically about a lot of what they say about their opponents. I'm definitely left-leaning but I know a lot of dishonesty resides in the democratic party as well and they aren't always fair to the right. MSNBC is pretty much as bad as Fox News. Also, what kind of cancer was it? Depending on what sort of organ it was affecting, Carona was probably still a contributing factor and thus can honestly be recorded as such. If it was the throat, any part of the circulatory or Respiratory system, certain parts of the endocrine system like the liver or Pancreas, or if it just happend to occur near one of those organs and thus the tumor grew up against those organs concerned, it probably interfered with breathing or enzymes which would have been made much worse by the virus. Someone with Lung cancer or lukemia is definitely at risk with the virus, and anyone on radiation or chemotherapy will have even less protection from the virus than most, so it's still a valid way of categorizing it to a point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550050/#p550050 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? I'd like to point out that I did try and verify the political source that Accman gave, but I think I used the wrong query -- I only got news sources I didn't trust, sadly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550045/#p550045 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? The confederate monuments were mentioned because of the timing of all of this. I think what they may have been getting at is that these rioters weren't social distancing and wearing masks, and people have issues with that because no one addresses tat issue.Speaking of masks and this virus, more interesting information has come to my attention. We know a lady here whose brother is in the hospital now with COVID-19. Interesting things is how he came to be infected. He had previously gone to the hospital for Dialysis, and caught it when he was there, in a hospital of all places. we just heard of a person who had severe cancer and that cancer killed him. Guess what, his death was written down as a COVID-19. He died in the hospital, and it was known that he died from cancer. We heard of a couple of ladies who had gone to get tested, and filled out all the paperwork. They were in line, and it was apparently a remarkably long line at that. They decided to just turn around and go home due to the length of the line and how much time this was all going to take. Later they got a phone call and the person on the other end, who was from the place they were to be tested, informed them that they had COVID-19. Remember, they were never tested, but somehow they're being told they have this virus. So, again we're shutting things back down here in the states over absolutely nothing. Yet, people are permitted to go about tearing down things they're told are offensive, seeking to erase a past they can't change, and these people are not practicing the regulations that they say we're supposed to be holding to. Again, none of this is opinion. I'm perfectly willing to admit when my opinion is in erorr, but when I know the facts I stick to them. There are too many double-standards flying around to give these regulations any validity at all. Our daughter has jsut had her services started up again, so she is getting orientation and mobility again after almost four months of being denied that service along with everything else she was to receive under federal law. I see where our state is beginning to shut things back down again, and if her services are taken away a second time we're going after the state of Pennsylvania. That is a case we will not lose. So, in light of all of this, I will follow no restrictions and no regulations as there is no need of them. You say the masks work, and for you that's good.. Do what you must to feel safe. I am doing what I must to feel safe, and to go about my life, or rather what there is of it nowadays. Until these double-standards are dealt with, a lot of people, more by the day, are going to fight these restrictions and regulations, especially when they're perfectly healthy. Oh, there is one other thing I forgot to mention. I New York, we had thousands of patients that had the virus sent into nursing homes, and now their pathetic excuse for a government is blaming the nursing home deaths on infected staff. the government forced them to take these patients from the beginning, and, just like a good liberal government would normally do, are not taking the blame for what they did and blaming someone else for it. So, there again, we have good reason to object to all of these regulations. They're not helping anyone, they won't help anyone in the long run, and are a complete waste of time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550036/#p550036 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? See, I'm not ignoring your source, Accman. Not entirely, at least. It's out there, so I did look at it. What I read made me start asking a lot of questions, since if the article could be taken on its own, at face value, then it makes a strong case for what you've been saying all along.I noticed some troubling issues with the article; for instance, mention of confederate monuments and a tieback to more positive tests raising positive numbers. This article definitely has a right-wing slant on it. That doesn't by default make it a lie, and it doesn't mean it's worthless, but it doubled my desire to start looking into the matter more.So off I went, and right away I found this article:https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who … -covid-19/This particular piece put into greater context the entire issue, suggesting that truly asymptomatic spread is very rare, but pre-symptomatic spread might account for up to half of overall viral transmission. It did not completely invalidate your own news source, but it immediately raised a lot of questions about its validity. Interestingly, Statnews did not appear to cite politics in so doing; they did not criticize Trump, America or anything else, merely presented facts. Again, this doesn't make them right by default, but it suggests that they wanted to stick to the facts, instead of an interpretation thereof.So I kept digging, and I found this news article:https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/who-covi … -1.5604353It seems to largely echo the first one I found, but is critical of the WHO for making inaccurate claims. I cite this article in particular because it feeds into your own narrative about inaccurate or untrustworthy information. It appears that Maria van Kerkhove tried and failed to explain this situation clearly, and faced almost immediate backlash, the brunt of which implies that data about this issue is simply not clear enough to be making such claims. In response, the WHO walked that claim back. I ought to mention here that this sort of thing does happen, and it alone is not an indicator that a source cannot be trusted, unless the behaviour becomes so common that it dominates the organization's narrative. That hasn't appeared to happen here. It's also important to note that given van Kerkhove's familiarity with the situation overall, her particular choice of words in relation to her expertise, she may have been misunderstood to some extent. That doesn't mean she's off the hook - she's not, and I do feel that health experts need to be very careful when the public is going to be this hyper-dependent upon them for guidance - but it does mean that even a small miscommunication can have large consequences. That appears to be the case here. Yet again, CBC cited facts, and did not make this a political issue. They did not overly criticize anyone who was not involved or who did not deserve it. They cited sources, their quotes were on point, and there is no good reason to doubt what they had to say.Now, I could keep going, but at this point, I don't need to. Here are the conclusions i've drawn:1. Over a month ago, when talk of reopening while wearing masks was not quite as charged as it seems to be now, the WHO, in the personage of Maria van Kerkhove, miscommunicated details about asymptomatic spread.2. This miscommunication - partially the fault of the WHO, partially the fault of those who leapt to conclusions - caused considerable backlash.3. The WHO corrected these statements and attempted, with limited success, to clarify the intended message.4. Because data is not clear - again, multiple sources agree that this is the problem in the first place - taking precautions makes sense. Even if that assertion eventually proves correct in precisely the way your original news source implies. Right now, that certainty is beyond us. If and when we reach a point where we know that your likelihood of hurting someone is infinitessimally small unless you're showing a lot of symptoms, we will know that masks may have been an overreaction. At this stage, however, we simply don't have the data to assume that, so it is better to be safe than sorry.5. Most damning of all: you and others read the first news source, the one you cited, and immediately jumped on board with it. For you, it represents the gospel truth, because it immediately aligns with your own personal beliefs. It doesn't help that it also furnishes some other nuggets of context which politicize the issue. Put bluntly, Accman, it told you what you wanted to hear with a slant that you trust, so you swallowed it whole. I, on the other hand, took the claim seriously, but not the entire article, and went digging. What you see above took me less than ninety seconds to find, read and process. I didn't even have to target especially left-leaning sources to get the info I suspected I would find. I went into your article expecting some truth and some misinterpretation, and that's
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Okay, so you're saying that even though to WHO has admitted this stuff you still won't take it seriously. I thought you agreed with the World Health Organization. Well, can't say I didn't try. You'll get nothing more from me on this because I am not going to waste any more time with it. You go ahead and live in fear with those lovely masks, and I'll continue to live like as much of a free human as I can. No one on this planet has the authority to make me wear the thrice-cursed mask. Don't like it? Fine, turn the other way and go about your business, and leave me to mine. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549892/#p549892 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Masks do work. Sure, they're hot and inconvenient and uncomfortable, but they do work. They are a damn sight better than nothing.Fun fact: lip-reading is said to be between 30-40% accurate at the best of times.Accman, your questions about gigging virtually are legitimate enough I suppose. But what about getting help from your wife to set up video? Or asking other blind people here if they have any experience with this sort of setup? Ditto things like Paypal and whatnot. You haven't even tried, to my knowledge, investigating any of this. While I understand that it's frustrating as hell not to have business as usual, you aren't alone in this, and just because you're frustrated doesn't give you or anyone the right to toss everyone under the bus. I don't 'know what sort of home setup you have, but if you're a gigging musician, you likely have the means to record, correct? Why not record at home and sell your music digitally? I mean, there may be valid reasons why some of this stuff won't work, but when you came back with reasons as to why you can't work virtually or whatever, most of them boiled down to "well I don't know but...". Sure, okay, that's understandable, but you've had months to find out. If you're really so frustrated by your lack of work, have you made the attempt? Have you been told and had it confirmed that nothing's going to work? Paypal and other money services are pretty common. Online streaming is very possible. I don't personally have all your answers, but they're out there.Also, let's be clear. When I said that I understand your frustration, that doesn't mean I agree with the conclusions you're drawing. Sure, okay, it's annoying that you're out of work and that life has been disrupted. It feels like fear-mongering, all this mask and Covid stuff. But that doesn't change all the people who have sickened and died either as a direct result of this disease, or due to complications from the damage done. It doesn't change that masks are effective...not perfectly so, but definitely effective. And no, they are not just for the sick, either. Obviously you are not going to change your mind until someone close to you gets sick, but I just wanted to be clear that sympathy does not mean tacit agreement. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549846/#p549846 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Masks work watch the video below. No one likes wearing them but we have to stay safe. If you don't wear one you're endangering others and that's selfish of you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tp0zB904Mc URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549808/#p549808 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Sorry. One tweet and a previous article from the same source aren't enough to sell me on this one. And whether this article is true or not, what I said above regarding masks still stands. Taiwan has been a world leader in its pandemic response, though unacknowledged, and a huge part of this is because of masks, temperature checks, and much better contact tracing than either Canada or the States. Asian cultures have a history of wearing masks, so noone sees a prblem with doing it, whether they are sick or not. The only reason there is so much discourse over masks here is because it's not something that we typically do here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549796/#p549796 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? That link is not dead. I found out what happened with it. Apparently, when I tried to copy and paste it something went weird. Here it is again, and this time it will work. So, don't jump to any conclusions based on something you didn't see yet.https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-06- … ssion.htmlNow you should be able to see the article I had intended to share with you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549759/#p549759 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? The link is dead. And masks are proven to be effective. all you have to do is look at Hong Kong and Taiwan to see that that, among with the other health measures they took, are vastly better landscapes than what we have here in North America. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549756/#p549756 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Here is an article that was just published yesterday, and it is quite though provoking. The information in this article is legitimate, and is also another reason why I, and many, many others, will not wear masks.https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-06- … sion.html=Please be sure to read this carefully and think on it for a bit. I am not saying you must agree with it, but I am saying that it seriously needs to be considered, especially given the source from which the information in this article originates . As the title suggests, this article has to do with what the WHO has just recently stated. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549745/#p549745 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @694, not sure where you are located, but the article I posted earlier is from Canada. Over here, especially in Quebec,they do admit that they've been counting probable cases as positive ones. And Hong Kong and Taiwan are both examples of places that have dealt with covid19 much better than other places. But it's not due to just physical distancing.. it's due more to masks, contact tracing and tracking apps, and an earlier response to the world because of the SARS outbreak. Schools and restaurants weren't closed, no tight lockdowns like we've seen in the rest of the world. But what it does show is how effective masks are, because those are both places where people have always worn masks when sick, pandemic or not. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549710/#p549710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @694, that makes sense. Sort of. What about notes 1 and 5 of tables I and II over here (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm)? For reference, note 1 says "Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1", and note 5 says "Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, pneumonia, or influenza, coded to ICD–10 codes U07.1 or J09–J18.9." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549709/#p549709 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @694, that makes sense. Sort of. What about notes 1 and 5 of tables I and II over here (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm)? For reference, ntoe 1 says "Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1", and note 5 says "Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, pneumonia, or influenza, coded to ICD–10 codes U07.1 or J09–J18.9." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549709/#p549709 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? actually, that article isn't right, we've only reported cases where the person was already confirmed to have the virus at the time of death. As for whether the virus killed them, that is more of a grey area I admit, however, it is almost certainly a contributing factor. The virus among other things prevents the red blood cells from transferring oxygen, and that is in fact, the main way it attacks our bodies, that would make any other disease we have much worse as we would find our bodies having a lot more trouble oxygenating themselves, making any struggling systems that are stressed by other diseases more likely to fail.Therefore, even if the Carona virus doesn't kill you directly and it is another disease, it definitely has a part in it. and as for the spreading the likely infection cases outward, that is based on the fact of how infectious diseases work in general. If someone has an infectious disease, they are sharing germs with those around them. We do not assume that those around them have it, that's an exaggeration, but we do and should assume that they have been exposed to the virus, whether they contract the illness or not, and many healthy people will not contract the virus at all even if they are exposed to it. Also remember that one can be a vector for a disease without having it, which is why we are told to be very careful. in addition, infectious disease outbreaks last longer if there are more vectors to pass the pathogen around. By taking the simple, though admittedly annoying steps. of mask-wearing, social distanceing, and minimizing public exposure, you reduce the number of disease vectors and thus give the virus fewer places to go, causeing many avenues it could travel to dead end. Keep in mind that Hong Kong is far more densely populated than almost anywhere else and yet, because their compliance rate with the masks and distancing has been 97%, they have become one of the lowest infection rated places on Earth and also have had only a few deaths, and most of those were foreigners who failed to comply with the safety guidelines. This is proof that the safety measures work. This also shows that the public spirit that led to the high compliance rates vastly slows and weaknes the infection. Hong Kong is very close to China, where this whole thing started and yet they have been one of the success stories, and they never even locked down at all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549702/#p549702 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Bookrage, you do make some good points as well. However, it is the idea of it. When the New England Journal of Medicine has clearly stated they are not ineffective, or have very little effect in actually keeping this thing from spreading, I tend to take that seriously. Now, here in Pennsylvania, we just heard that our joke of a governor is thinking of leveling sanctions against three of the counties where cases have gone up. That was from one of our main news outlets, and my wife and I saw this just yesterday afternoon. This being the case, no one will convince me that this is anything other than a move to control people. these masks are for the sick, not the healthy. Also, there are some other things to consider when you are wearing those things. If you're dealing with someone who is deaf, how are they to read your lips with the mask in their way? Yes, I know their is sign language, but you can't assume that all deaf people, or all others for that matter, would know it. Also, there is the classic case of someone not understanding you when your in an area with more activity going on around you. My wife went grocery shopping, and tried the mask experience just to satisfy the person she was with at the time, and she had to repeat something she had said to a store worker no fewer than three times. She then just removed the mask, and all went well. Also, how in the world are we going to expect kids to keep these things on all day through school? that's not healthy, and it makes no sense.As for doing concerts on the internet, I had considered that, but where's the money going to come from. The only way I can collect it is via PayPal or another solution like it, but there are still a great deal of people who are not comfortable using services like that, not too mention that in order to receive PayPal payments, the person sending has to have a PayPal account if I understand things correctly. I could be wrong on that though. And then, how do you book these things? Also, how does a blind person rig up video for something like that when there is no sighted assistance due to fear of this stupid virus? There is no way that the death-rates are going to be as bad as the experts say, I don't by it for a second. If I'm wrong, then I'll admit it. However, we can't continue to live under these regulations. the numbers tell a much different story, showing percentages of people infected, and those that have died, to be so small that they are not even worth worrying about. I am sorry for those deaths, but it is not enough to make everyone put their lives on hold in go into a state of blind fear. Then, there's the other thing to consider. Out of those known cases, which we are too assume are positive, how many are false? I just saw recently in Florida where there were over 33,000 tests that showed positive, but in fact were not. If it happened there, it can happen anywhere in the country or the world for that matter. Again, not trying to be difficult. I'm trying to get people to really think about what their governments are telling them to do. I have taken into consideration the point of view from those that would have me mask up to go outside my home, and all I am asking in return is that people promoting that fear-driven notion please take into consideration the other side of that argument as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549694/#p549694 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? That's something I definitely don't like about the COVID death reports -- that we consider "probable" cases and not actually "confirmed" cases (only). We consider everyone in an area infected with it if only a single person has it and they happen to be in that area (and we don't even confirm the remaining ones, from what I know, its just a blanket assumption). If someone dies from "underlying medical conditions" (or evendies peacefully), or, as in the article in 690, they die peacefully but happen to have COVID-19, we consider their death a result of COVID-19 and add that death to the fatalities count -- even though the death was not, actually, COVID at all. And this is not the only source that claims this either. I found another (can't find the link, sorry) that said pretty much the same thing. So I find it perfectly understandable that some people wouldn't consider this virus as bad as everyone else claims it to be when we have our very medical institutions claiming coronavirus deaths even if the death was not coronavirus at all. If you have any of the symptoms of coronavirus (which happen to be very, very common to other diseases, infections, ...) your death is labelled, unquestionably, as coronavirus-induced. So... could the death rate be much higher? Yes. But there's also an equal -- if not higher -- probability, I think, that the death rate is a lot lower, and the number of deaths is lower than we are lead to believe. Even the CDC counts deaths if the death is confirmed or even just presumed to have been caused by coronavirus. Anyone got a reason as to why this is happening? Because it really seems like there's a huge problem here.I'm not saying that the article in 690 is right but... can anyone here necessarily say its wrong either? Wouldn't it be better if we reported "actually confirmed" COVID-19 cases, and only those cases, and not "presumed" or "probable" cases? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549687/#p549687 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? That's something I definitely don't like about the COVID death reports -- that we consider "probable" cases and not actually "confirmed" cases (only). We consider everyone in an area infected with it if only a single person has it and they happen to be in that area (and we don't even confirm the remaining ones, from what I know, its just a blanket assumption). If someone dies from "underlying medical conditions" (or evendies peacefully), or, as in the article in 690, they die peacefully but happen to have COVID-19, we consider their death a result of COVID-19 and add that death to the fatalities count -- even though the death was not, actually, COVID at all. And this is not the only source that claims this either. I found another (can't find the link, sorry) that said pretty much the same thing. So I find it perfectly understandable that some people wouldn't consider this virus as bad as everyone else claims it to be when we have our very medical institutions claiming coronavirus deaths even if the death was not coronavirus at all. If you have any of the symptoms of coronavirus (which happen to be very, very common to other diseases, infections, ...) your death is labelled, unquestionably, as coronavirus-induced. So... could the death rate be much higher? Yes. But there's also an equal -- if not higher -- probability, I think, that the death rate is a lot lower, and the number of deaths is lower than we are lead to believe. Even the CDC counts deaths if the death is confirmed or even just presumed to have been caused by coronavirus. Anyone got a reason as to why this is happening? Because it really seems like there's a huge problem here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549687/#p549687 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Consider it this way regarding the masks and social distancing. What are you losing in wearing a mask? very little. You might not be showing your face, masks can be uncomfortable, and if you are smart, you might have to do a little more laundry.if you are not wearing a mask and taking precautions in this pandemic, what are your risks? 1. as many pandemics throughout history have shown, you are more highly at risk not only to receive the infection, but to spread it as well. Some have said (incorrectly) that asymptomatic isn't a thin. Let's assume, to make the argument stronger that it is true and you can't have asymptomatic cases. Even so, even with similar diseases like the common cold and flu (which are very similar in how they spread) you are contagious not only before you start having symptoms, but after you are felling better as well for a few days. This is why the anti-vacination argument that "I'll keep my child home if they are sick" does not work because the kids can spread their diseases before they actually start feeling bad, and the same is true of Carona. For the regulations as we open up with Carona, the safety guidelines are for most of us, at worst, an inconvenience vs. potential spreading of the disease (making it last in the world longer and thus leading to more deaths) if we don't follow the regulations. And for our musician, there have been a few ideas that other have pushed around. If you record, get together with your band and record sessions, or give streamed youtube, twitch, or other service concerts to your fans via the internet. It isn't quite the same as a concert venue, but it is better than nothing and you will be able to keep up your public visibility and maybe earn a few bucks while you're at it. But just think about the safety regulations this way. You've got inconfenience as a downside forfollowing them, and the lengthening of the outbreak and potential for more deaths for you or those around you if you don't. as I see it it becomes a no-brainer at that point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549676/#p549676 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Not ready to acceptthis as gospel, but there are certainly some questions.. and it's definitely something to hink about. And one of the reasons I'm not just going to unqestioningly accept the word of every expert I hear from.https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/01/cov … MydsUeec7E URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549655/#p549655 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? I, and my family, did get the first check back in April, and there's supposed to be a second one coming either this month or in August. But, that only gets you so far. I tried for unemployment, but, like over a million other residents in my state, heard absolutely nothing in return on it. As for getting caught up on reading and watching things, that I can certainly agree with you on as there is plenty of time to do that. However, I need something more than that. One can only read for so many hours, watch so many shows and films, and play so many games. There has to be more of a purpose than that. What kinds of stuff are you reading and listening to now by the way? I only ask because there might be something you are checking out that could prove interesting. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549411/#p549411 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @Accman, I think it will go into next year but it doesn't bother me because I have tuns of podcasts, youtube videos, fan fiction, things like that.You could tgry reading or listening to stuff you either want to or said you'd get around to but haven't yet, I know I've got stuff like that on my hard drive.As for money, you could get that stimuless cheque thing americans can get, it seams quite useful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549395/#p549395 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? You do make some good points there Jade. I had considered the possibility that things would start up again regarding the music. It's just the not knowing wen, and having something to do during that time. This not working business is for the birds. I hate feeling like I'm in jail when I haven't even done anything. In my community, or rather what passes for one, we have zero cases, not a single one. This is why I just can't see myself wearing a mask, especially when it's 90 degrees or higher with humidity going through the roof. I guess it's just that, on top of feeling like I've been under the equivalent of house arrest, I now would have to subject myself to all this other stuff with these regulations, and I am just not willing to do that. For my own sanity, I simply can't. I do understand where you are coming from in the points you are making, and I am glad I was able to help you see my position more clearly. Hopefully, this thing will be over sooner than later. I think that's the best we can look for at this point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549346/#p549346 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Accman, I have a ton of sympathy for someone in your position, at least where it comes to frustration regarding your chosen career. Thank you for disclosing that, by the way; it helps me understand, in part, why you feel the way you do.What I want to tell you, though, is that I don't think your career as a musician is lost. You're not old, correct? Not, like, in your seventies with tons of chronic health conditions. This means you've likely got decades left of your life. Even if we're still months from some semblance of normalcy, and even if it means this year has been pretty much shot for you, it doesn't mean that this will be the case forever. By this time next year, or even five months from now, it may be entirely possible for you to be gigging, performing or recording again. I feel like maybe you're jumping the gun a little bit by saying that your career is over forever when, in fact, it's just stopped.As such, while I understand your frustration, and the feeling that you don't want to be held back from the things you enjoy doing, I'd ask you to please not misrepresent caution as fear. To be sure, some people are afraid, and some people have deliberately tried to play off of that fear. In my view, that's an awful thing to do. But to say that we need to be more careful during this pandemic would, I think, be perfectly reasonable. If you agree that people who drive drunk should be charged even if they don't hurt people, then you should understand that wearing a mask, particularly in close physical situations, should be dealt with the same way. It's a needless increase of risk toward those around us. If you just nip out to get the mail, walk your dog or cut your grass, and you're not dealing with crowds, then no, by all means don't wear a mask if you don't want to. But if you want to go to that ice cream shop, at least do the employees the courtesy of trying to keep everyone safe. Sure, it's annoying. Grumble about it all you like. But if you truly care about people, and you're truly sorry that people get sick and die, and you truly want to see an end to this, then please, for god's sake do your own part to help it happen. This isn't fear. It's not guilt. It's common sense. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549219/#p549219 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? I was a professional musician, and most of my shows were canceled by those who booked them when this all started, even slightly before it actually and that's because people were becoming afraid right out of the starting gate. I should, as I write this, be somewhere other than home right now as I would normally be in one of my busiest times of the year. However, it wouldn't have been lucrative for me to go, especially given how few shows I would have had in the end. I consider my career lost because I have no idea when this fear, which I believe to be the real pandemic, will end. As long as these regulations are in place, I am not going to be able to do my shows. I especially will not be performing with a bloody mask on my face. There is nothing for work available where I live, and, also because of this virus and all of this fear and these regulations, I am unable to move because no one really knows what's going on with the real-estate market in our state at this time, so it would seem. That all having been said, I am currently working on certifications in I.T. since I can't see any other course of action. It does, of course, mean that I am having to go further into debt with more loans, but we'll see. Maybe it will work out better than my old career did. I still intend to take gigs if they should come up, and I am hoping to maybe record something again soon, but I just don't know. I guess what really has me angry at this time is that I had my entire life invested in this music career, went to berklee College of Music, graduated from there, and was doing well at it until all of this happened. Now, I am having to go, in essence, back to school and take out more loans, in the hopes that this will work out better. Once I get my certifications, the work would be primarily done from home, so that's a good thing. I also know that there were two other blind students who recently graduated from the same program I am working on and they are doing quite well with it. I've had two classes so far and they're actually really a lot of fun and quite educational. So, if I have seemed combative, that is not my normal it all. I am just sick and tired of all this, and am pissed that I can't currently perform for live audiences, and cannot be certain when that will happen again. If I have offended anyone here, please know that it was not my intent. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549206/#p549206 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Accman, I've asked this before. How did you actually straight-up lose your career? I can understand being laid off for the foreseeable future, but I'm not sure why a career you once had is now completely nonviable, unless that career was something like professional virus-spreader. That's a joke, BTW; I'm sure that is not, in fact, what you were doing, because who does that?The reality is that the world would never have been able to grind to a complete stop. Why do you think grocery stores stayed open? Why do you think truckers still had to go to work? Why do you think UPS, Canada Post and other shipping companies continued to function? No one was ever suggesting that every single person stay home, refuse to leave their home, refuse to open windows, and just wait to die. That's not realistic and it misrepresents the situation. Instead, we were asking people to maintain better physical distance, to not gather unless absolutely necessary, to wear masks if they had to interact with the public to any serious degree. Many people did this, and in countries where compliance was higher, recovery was quicker. In countries like the United States, where resistance to said safety guidelines was higher, you end up with a very scary per-capita infection rate. You said yourself that numbers don't lie, so you're hung up by your own logic here. Better compliance (read: not being completely shut in, but taking precautions) leads to better control, lower transmission, lower strain on the medical system. After all, people can still function in society by wearing masks; certain professions do it all day, every day, irrespective of the pandemic.It's one-thirty in the morning, and you're ready to head home from the bar. You're pretty tipsy, but you decide to get in your car anyway. You figure it's only two miles to reach your home, and the roads are quiet at this time of night. You start driving, and all seems well...but then a cop shows up, pulls you over, tests your blood alcohol level and charges you with driving under the influence of alcohol. The cop is right to do it; you broke the law, and the law is there for a good reason because people die every day from drunk driving.It's five o'clock, and you decide to head down to the local ice cream parlour for a tasty treat. You live in a small community, but a state-wide law says that not wearing a mask can result in a fine. You haven't heard of any Covid-19 cases in your community, so you decide that you don't need to wear a mask; it violates your rights and freedoms, and really, who's going to get hurt, anyway? There's a problem though. A sign on the door says, "Open for business! Take-out only. By law, customers must wear a mask while on the premises. No mask, no service. We appreciate your patronage. Help us stay safe and stay open." You shake your head, and go to push open the door. You are immediately asked to leave because you aren't wearing a mask. At first you protest, but then you turn away in disgust. A helpful policeman, wearing a mask, has decided to get ice cream at the same time, and, noticing that you are in violation of the law, slaps you with a fine. The cop is right to do it. You are in violation of a law meant to protect public safety, and people die every day from Covid-19.The average drunk-driving-related deaths per day is 30. Can you say the same of Covid? Because to me, the virus is the clearly bigger threat. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549200/#p549200 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @682, medical systems are already overwhelmed, good sir. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549199/#p549199 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? If people had complied better, then everything would have been brought to a dead stop, so no that wouldn't have helped anything. I understand your concern, respect it even. However, these numbers, and the percentages, do not lie. We have to look at this in the bigger picture which means taking things in light of either the entire world population, or that of each country so you get the percentages of both the world and each country you're looking into. I am sure there will be many more who contract this virus, but I don't see the medical system getting completely overwhelmed, not at the current rate of recovery. We've got to get things back on track here and open things up so that we can try and go on living like we're supposed to. Now that I know these figures and what they actually represent, I am even more convinced that all these regulations are absolutely pointless, all save for one. I do agree that travel between countries should still be restricted, but that is a given. However, to make it mandatory for people to put on a mask in order to even leave their homes is not only stupid, it is insane. It is due to information such as what I have provided in my example that I will not stand for being made to subject myself to all of these needless regulations. I've lost my career, as have many others, due to this and I'm not going to sacrifice any further for something that, as the figures have shown, doesn't not currently represent a major threat. In the name of common sense, I just cannot do that, and will not do that. I will be mindful of others and keep a respectable distance between myself and others when I meet people, but I am going no further, not until there is sufficient evidence that shows me otherwise and that evidence cannot be based on what could or might happen.. You do make some considerable points Jade, but I just cannot sacrifice any more of my life due to this virus in light of what I have now learned. My intent is not to come across as selfish, but if that's how you choose to see it then I can't help you. In the end, at least you do, hopefully, understand why I take the position that I do in this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549189/#p549189 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Those numbers are approximately what I've been working with. Ethin, thank you for posting them, as they give some lovely perspective.If all you want to do is look at the population of the world and say "well, it's a tiny tiny number that's actually dying", then sure, the numbers will help you.But I see a few factors that make me worry:1. This thing got started in the winter, in a lot of places, which means people weren't together quite as much; now that it's summer, the chances that people try to hang out together are higher.2. Those numbers are as low as they are precisely because of things like physical distancing, mask-wearing and the temporary shutdown of services. They'd be even lower still if people had complied better.3. An ugly number, but work with me here. The United States represents nearly 20% of positive cases, but has a population less than five per cent of the world's population. This means that America's per-capita infection rate is much higher than a lot of other countries.4. There is absolutely a time and a place to start relaxing your guard. Many European countries have been able to do it successfully because they handled their safety guidelines well, and while they'll still need to stay vigilant for future spikes, they appear to be coming out of the woods. America, on the other hand, is not getting better yet. Some communities, especially rural ones with little travel in and out, are pretty stable and appear safe, and that's great, but on the whole, Covid-19 is far from finished with America.5. You're not considering some other factors that the numbers alone don't tell you. First of all, even though the death rate is far harsher overall than I was characterizing, complications in those who survive are relatively common. Critical cases are high enough that medical staff have been overworked and underprepared. The medical system is simply not well-equipped to handle huge floods of patients, and it can't handle numbers that will continue to rise. You can't just represent total deaths as a function of world population and conclude there's no problem, as that's extremely shortsighted. Next, remember that these numbers are relatively current, and that the virus isn't done yet. Those numbers will never, ever go down; they can only grow. Experts in virology suggest that by the time we get a handle on this pandemic, between 15-30% of the world's population will have gotten the virus personally. I've read this from several places, none of them with an especially leftist slant. You're looking at around 1.5 billion, if we're being a little kind. Of those, if current death statistics are to be even close, approximately 60 million will die, and hundreds of millions more will overburden the medical system.So no, I am not pretending that 9 out of 10 people get this virus, and of those 9, several will die. That's ridiculous. Everything I've said comes not only from my analysis of the numbers I've been reading, but of my ability to do some basic math and logical extrapolation.Many restaurants, by the way, are unwilling to do dine-in service but are happy to cook food for you and give it to you via takeout, or delivery services like Skip the Dishes, Uber Eats or DoorDash. If you do want to go to a restaurant to eat, wear your mask, for fuck's sake. These people are being paid normal wages in most cases, and are being forced to deal over and over again with foolish people who might be sick and who may be exposing them to illness. In fact, the people I feel worst for are not your average citizen, but essential workers. You know, the ones who stayed employed during the shutdown, didn't get paid extra, but had to deal with longer work weeks and ungodly amounts of workplace anxiety because they were afraid of getting sick? the ones that are being disrespected to an enormous degree by people refusing to wear masks? They kept the world rolling. Supply chains bent, but they didn't break. And the way you repay them is to say, "hail no, I ain't wearing that dang mask in this heat"? Seriously, that's just disgusting. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549178/#p549178 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Ethin, thanks for explaining that. I had seen that when I ran the one calculation, and I didn't think I was doing something correctly as I had never seen that before. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549174/#p549174 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Its scientific notation. If you see the number 5.449283913e-6, it actually means 0.05449283913. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549159/#p549159 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Your number, 1e-4, means the 1 is four digits the other way, so 1e-4 = 0.0001. To be completely accurate, the e-4 means multiply by 10^-4 or 1/10^4 or . ooo1 That notation is a convenience for writing and comparing very large, or in this case very small numbers.I have no idea what so ever what that means but, it should answer your question or confuse you even more. I searched and that's the first thing that came up on google. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549152/#p549152 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? One question. What's with the E-4? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549140/#p549140 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? it makes sense to me because as much as I don't like it; I don't want to get fined. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549139/#p549139 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? okay guys. I said I would provide backup for why I come at this the way that I do, and I will do that here.Keep in mind, I am not primarily looking at just the number of cases here, but I am looking at them in light of the population as a whole.When I last checked it, the world population stood at 7,796,085,098 people. However, that figure is always going to be changing, so we'll run with that number for the purposes of this illustration. The other figures I will be working from are from those which Ethin had posted earlier today, and have likely changed. However, for this example they will give a general idea of where I am coming from.As of the time he posted this information, the total number of cases worldwide was 11505482.The total number of deaths was shown, at that time, to be 535641.If we calculate the percentage of that total number of cases in relationship to the total population, we find that about .14 percent of the world's population is known to have the virus. If we look at the deaths in relation to the world's population, we find that the number of deaths would come to be a very weird percentage number, 6.870640754516813e-5. That is, when you look at it, a very small figure.Now, let's look at things from the vantage point of the United State population.The total population of the United States, as of the last time I looked, is 331,033,524 people, so we'll use that for the purpose of this example.As before, we'll use the figures that Ethin had earlier posted just to get a general idea of how things look.The total number of cases in the US was shown as being 2975389.The number of deaths overall for the US is 132538.Now if we look at percentages, we find that out of the entire United States population, about .8 percent are known to have the virus, not even a whole percentage of the population. If we look at the number of deaths in relation to the overall population, we find a percentage of 4.003763679233889e-4.So, there you have it, based on some of the most recent figures. So, we're under all these regulations, worldwide as well as in the United States, over these percentages that I just showed you. This just shows that there has really been nothing to worry about, no reason to shut down businesses, no need for people's lives to have been ruined the way they have, and no need for these regulations and mandates. The math does not lie, and I did double-check to make sure I did it correctly. If this isn't enough, then there's nothing more I can do for you. It is because of what I have had confirmed for me in running these numbers that I am going about my life the way that I am. If such a time comes where things do get much worse, then, and only then, will I put myself under these kinds of mandates. I hope it never comes to that.Ethin, I thank you once again for having posted those figures earlier, I really appreciate that. Now, let's allow all of this to sink in, let the full ramifications of what these figures mean to be realized, and then see what you think about having to mask up when you just want to leave your home and go for a walk, out to eat, shopping, or what have you. It just doesn't make sense to do any of that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549135/#p549135 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? All right, so about these claims. The posetivity rates of many of these tests is really low, certainly not enough to justify slowing down testing. If I had a false posetive test, and still isolated, I wouldn't regret that, and I would have done the right thing by not needlessly endangering people.As for otomobiles and air conditioning, actually this makes a better case for wearing a mask. The virus spreads easier this way, through the circulating air. Covid importantly differs from cancer and car accidents as you can't spread a car accident or cancer to anyone else, and infect more than a hundred people per case. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549110/#p549110 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @JayJay, I agree. cooking a nice home made meel is tuns better than KFC and fast food places. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549091/#p549091 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Hmm. @Accman, our Prime Minister specifically said when he was closing down our stores, that aside from stopping the spread of the virus, but its just better for us to cook at home. Prepare a nice home made dinner for yu family instead of going to KFC or those places. Over here, you can dine in again. Its just that the tables are really spread out. And they cut down the capaciety down a lot. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549080/#p549080 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @665, I agree with JJ.I don't think the entire world will shut down, but places like the UK and the US will be closed for a while.I hear that the UK is allowing travel to other countries, probably bassed in Europe, but I don't know how long that will last. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549076/#p549076 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? 665, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, the question is how does one define essential. I mean, here in Pennsylvania we've had places like barber shops shut down, but liquor stores are open. I think we're all familiar with the _expression_ "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". That principle also seems to apply to what might be considered essential vs nonessential businesses and services.Ethin, thanks for providing those stats. Not only did I find that interesting, but very helpful. I think I know where Jade and I are having issues here now. Jade is coming at this in terms of the number of known cases. I am looking at things from the perspective that looks at things in terms of the entire population. When you do that, the statistics do look different. There are in the neighborhood of 11,000,000 known cases worldwide now. I'll grant that this is a big number, but when the world population is several billion, it is a very, very small percentage. This has been my approach on this thing, and I sincerely apologize for not having made that clear from the get-go. I just feel that when you have over a billion people whom this hasn't touched, that there is no cause for alarm. Yes, there is good reason to practice goo hygiene, and I always make it a point to do just that.A point was made about not being served at restaurants if you don't wish to wear a mask. That's a very dumb move for those establishments if they wish to keep their businesses open. Say you want to go out to eat on your own, with your family, or on a date with someone. You want to eat in the restaurant. Guess what, you're going to have to take the blasted mask off in order to eat or drink. They'll tell you to eat quickly so you can mask back up, but that isn't healthy either because eating quickly is scientifically proven to be bad for digestion. So, policy or not, you're going to have about twenty or thirty minutes where you're not going to be wearing that mask. The virus would spread anyway, so again it doesn't make sense. Also, if restaurants aren't going to serve you simply because you won't wear a mask, that screams segregation and discrimination. Personally, if a restaurant won't serve me because of it, then I'll go somewhere that will or I will just cook as they obviously don't need my business that much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549075/#p549075 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @Accman, I keep forgeting america is a lot hotter than the UK.I take back what I said, if there's no cases in your area and you follow the, what is it, 5 feet rule, then go for it, just remember some places might make you ware a mask.OH god, I'm just thinking, if I think it's hot in the mask now, imagine being in america, no thanks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549074/#p549074 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? @665, I dont think the world will shutdown, just the major powers, and more badly hit nations. There are stil many places that are chugging along nicely, and haven't reported cases in weeks.666. Mark of the beast damn it! Its to the end of his post. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549070/#p549070 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end?
Re: Corona Virus: is it the beginning of the end? Jade, you're the one who was taking away from the point. All I was illustrating was that there are, in fact, other causes of death that we need to concerned that might just, in fact, be as important as, if not more important, than this virus.If you truly believe that jail time and/or fines are something to be considered, then you're going beyond safety. You're starting to venture into the realm of conformist indoctrination, and I figured you might be above that.You're comparison you had made was sensible for its application. However, that's not talking about the spreading of viruses, and that's why I said what I said. Let's pay attention to things a little more closely please, as I really couldn't have been much clearer on that.As for your stance on masks? If you want me to where one, then come and make me do it. We are in a community up here where there have been absolutely no cases of this whatsoever. I am not wearing a mask in hot weather just to make someone else happy and to conform to some new normal. If that bothers you, then look the other way and go about your business. And, if you happen upon me, then practice what you preach in terms of social distancing. I don't get in people's faces, and would expect they wouldn't do that with me either.I will stop feeding you"bullshit" if you stop feeding it to me as well. Get tested as much as you like. If you get it and seem to have no symptoms, then go ahead and isolate for two or three weeks, but as I have said before that is two or three weeks of your life gone and you'll not be getting those back. For some people, that would lead to anxiety.In the end, as I've said it before, do whatever makes you feel safe. If getting tested, wearing masks, and, if need be self-isolating, is what you need to do then you go ahead and do it. However, I am not sacrificing my freedom as an American simply based on lies, damned lies, and fudged statistics. As for your evidence you so desperately seek from me, would you accept it as such if it came from a source that wasn't leftist in origin, whether or not you liked it. Would you consider it? I would be more than happy to do that, but I am coming at it like this because I've seen what happens before when attempting this. If you want evidence of any kind, you're going to have to be open to looking at some things that are from sources you might not consider to be real, even though they are. If that's fine by you, then we'll proceed. However, if not, then we're finished. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549069/#p549069 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
