Re: September Foals
This message is from: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 10:19 PM 9/26/2007, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congratulations to all the late arrivals. When I first got into fjords and started hearing about all the foals, I thought Joe was an oddity for having a foal date in September. Glad to know he is in such good company. Mike, without doing a lot of research, do you know about what percentage of foals are born in this time frame vs. the May - June time? I am afraid that one isn't an easy one to look up in the database. Mike Kate and Joe (who just celebrated his 9th birthday a week ago) and Della (who appreciated the birthday cookies for Joe's birthday) ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Late Foals
This message is from: Michele Noonan [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are also in the same position as Solvi and Catherine. Our mare was bred last year and confirmed with an ultrasound on August 24th. She was at that time 43 days bred. Well her June 07 foaling date came and went. The vet palpated her and said, Yes she still is bred, probably going to go a month over due. Well that date came and went and we had her palpated again end of August. Now the vet feels it will be an October baby. We never turn mares out with the stallion for the winter unless they are confirmed bred. I guess Elsker knew his balls were on the line and wanted one more before we cut him. The vet figures she reabsorbed sometime in September or early October and then came back into heat. So we have no clue except we know what date Elsker was cut! LOL Two Rivers Kare is looking quite like an elephant though. So my guess is in October. Good thing those babies are born with a good coat on them. This one will get to nurse all winter long for sure. Michele Noonan Wild Hair Ranch Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:45:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Olivia Farm, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: New Foal We are in the same boat as Catherine Lassesen - at some point the mare reabsorbed and was covered by the stallion. Ahh, the fun of pasture breeding! Solveig Watanbe Olivia Farm www.oliviafarm.comhttp://www.oliviafarm.com/ The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
September Foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congratulations to all the late arrivals. When I first got into fjords and started hearing about all the foals, I thought Joe was an oddity for having a foal date in September. Glad to know he is in such good company. Mike, without doing a lot of research, do you know about what percentage of foals are born in this time frame vs. the May - June time? Kate and Joe (who just celebrated his 9th birthday a week ago) and Della (who appreciated the birthday cookies for Joe's birthday) ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Question regarding stallion influence on foals
This message is from: Marge or Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello list In my animal husbandry classes, a few years ago, it seemed that there was always a lot of emphasis on whether the male gender possessed Paternal or Maternal traits. In the horse world, that being that the makeup of the foal was more likely to be influenced by the mare or the stallion. It seems there is very little mentioned about that in the breeding industry now days. I would like to see some discussion on this theory or fact. On another subject that was discussed at length on the list. Regarding getting rid of moles. I trap them using a trap called the black box and made by the Victor company. I trapped 68 last year. I even had to trap for the neighbors because I ran out on moles. I was just reminded of the subject when I saw a news report on TV that a professional mole trapper in Washington State was arrested for trapping moles. Seems that it is illegal in the state of Washington to use a leg hold or body squeeze type trap to catch fur bearing animals??? OH MY. Bet it takes a lot of moleskins to make a coat!!! Our Son and Daughter-in-law just informed me that they plan to sell their 2 yr. old filly, a 3 yr. old filly and a 4 yr. old gelding. From good stock, Registered and ready for training. They are too busy to do justice to the training of these nice young Fjords and will probably make some one a good deal on all three. Located in beautiful but getting overcrowded (north Idaho). Email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wishing all a Fjord Fun summer. Dennis Johnson, usually a lurker. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I love reading about the foals - congratulations to all the proud parents. I've never been around newborns, and had a question about an incident that happened to some non-Fjords at our barn. We have 4 pastures. Mare and 4-day old filly in one pasture, 3 geldings and 2 mares in the pasture next to them (just for the record, Joe is NOT in that pasture). The baby somehow slipped through the fence into the other pasture, and one of the geldings went after her. Not as violently as he could have, but by the time someone got to him to drive him off, he had chewed her up pretty badly and had her cornered well away from where mom could get to either one of them. Does this happen often? Is there a particular amount of time that you keep the babies away from any other horses? Kate and Joe (who seems to love babies and is very offended when the mama tries to kill him if he walks by and looks at the baby). ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Foals
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] My gelding, a Trakehner, was absolutely wild when his Mom came out in the other field with a new baby filly. He screamed, ran the whole field for at least a half hour. I am not sure if he thought the mare was being attacked by the little creature following her, or that he knew he had been replaced. He was in training about fifty miles from here and just home for the weekend. Eventually he calmed down but it was a carefully watched procedure when they went in together five months later. No problem. Jean Gayle Author of: 'The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Team of mares with foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just an FYI. Here at Hestehaven, we have a great team of mares that are being offered for sale. They both come with a 2007 foal at their side. ( one is still in the belly) Optional: A breed back to Blaamann. These are older ( 1986 1990 ) mares that have been there and done that in driving and riding. They are not open show quality for under saddle but can kick the pants off of any driving event or farm event. They work single and team. The younger is a hoot to drive. (Ask Amy Evers) If any of you went to the 2006 NW Horse Expo, these mares were there. In order to meet the demand of a changing breed program, we are doing some changes in our brood mare staff. (If you are wondering why they are for sale.) The mares are great for a beginner team driver or lady driver. They are light to the bit and are very fun to drive. They have been doing the public trail rides and driving lessons here at the farm and has received good comments from our clients. Serious inquiries only. Thanks! Catherine Lassesen Hestehaven - The Horse Garden www.hestehaven.com / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Southern Oregon The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
bloodlines and foals
This message is from: Sara Faull [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is always interesting to learn new things about bloodlines especially when they are common threads running through your herd. We have a mare who is a granddaughter of Waldo. We also have her full brother. They are two of our best horses- Our mare Fjorgyn is the steadiest most reliable horse on the farm. She can be led around by a four year old. Her foals have the same qualities. From day one they are brave confident and calm. It is interesting to learn that Waldo was used as as the ideal therapeutic riding horse. In related news, our Waldo granddaughter, Fjorgyn just foaled. She had a lovely refined colt sired by Curt Pierce's stallion Wynn. He has the same personality her other foals have had. Even at a week old her runs up to us without hesitation, can be handled by anyone, and is not afraid of loud noises or flapping raincoats... Our Solar daughter, Selma, has also foaled. She had a filly. This foal is the darkest I have ever seen. Usually they are so light in color only to darken after they shed their foal coat. This filly is dark. She is sired by our grey stallion MVF Karimann. I love looking at our mare herd and seeing so many great mares representing so many different bloodlines. They each have their individual strengths, but as a whole they are wonderful and I never get tired of looking at them. Sara Faull Mandala Farm Yerxes was a son of the Dutch Studbook stallion, Waldo. What I know about Waldo is that he was the horse that was responsible for the official Belgian Therapeutic Riding Program choosing Fjordhorses as the Ideal Therapy horse. -- You see, Waldo was lent for a time to the biggest equine therapy program in Belgium where they did a long study over several years before determining that the Fjordhorse was the ideal breed for this kind of work. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
FOALS, FOALS, FOALS
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are very happy to announce the foals are here. well, all but 3 of them. :-) The latest is a little colt out of Elisie by Overmann. He is a cutie. He is not named yet and the owner has decided to sell him. The first $2000 offer can name the colt and take him home in 4-5 month. (You can contact me for the owner's information) Born May 13, 2006 11 AM. Tryggmann was born on May 4, 2006 at 10:45 PM out of Korlina (aka Bananas) by Blaamann. He is a very healthy colt and is offered for sale as a stallion prospect or gelding. Please contact me directly of you are interested in him. So the total born here at Hestehaven is EIGHT, so far. The colts are ruling the place. :-) 1. Tyrmann out of Kristi by Blaamann - 1/28/2006 - Sold to Kim Kinney 2. Tulipan out of Flip by Blaamann - 2/10/2006 - Sold to Oregon Fjord Club for raffle foal 3. Tordenmann out of Lupin by Blaamann - 3/10/2006 - Sold to Nancy and Kathy in WI 4. Topas out of Lakka by Johan - 4/4/2006 - We are keeping this grey filly. 5. Tordenmann out of Belle by Johan - 4/6/2006 - FOR SALE 6. Charlie (not named by owner yet) out of Nisse (aka Dandy's E-Bay) by Overmann - 4/15/2006 - FOR SALE by OWNER (Gordon Thomas 1-541-839-4600) 7. Tryggmann out of Korlina byBlaamann - 5/4/2006 - FOR SALE 8. T boy (not named by owner yet) out of Elisie by Overmann- 4/13/2006 - FOR SALE by OWNER ( Lana White, see me for details) 9. TBA - ? - out of Taffy by Blaamann - FOR SALE by OWNER - Amy Evers - 541-825-3303 10. TBA - ? - out of Emily by Blaamann - FOR SALE by OWNER - Amy Evers -541-825-3303 11. TBA - ? - out of Mojave by Blaamann - FOR SALE by OWNER - Cheri Gill (contact me via email for details) I LOVE FOALING SEASON. we play all day with them. All the ones born on property are handles daily and LOVE people. They have bathes and they are working with their Mamas and they are well socialized and well behaving for foals. Weanling depends on the individual foal. Normally they wean themselves at 4-5 months. Contact me for more details. REMEMBER new EMAIL address. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for your time. Catherine Lassesen Southern Oregon, USA 1-866-484-5141 (Toll Free) Will you help me help others by sponsoring me for the Breast Cancer 3-Day walk. I will be walking 60 miles in Arizona on November 3 - 5, 2006. My goals is to raise over $5,000.00. 85% goes to the Susan G. Komen breast Cancer Foundation. 15% goes to the National Philanthropic Trust Breast Cancer Fund. Go to the link below to make a donation. Thank you! https://www.kintera.org/faf/donorReg/donorPledge.asp?ievent=131571 https://www.kintera.org/faf/donorReg/donorPledge.asp?ievent=131571supid=12 7047049 supid=127047049
Re: Orphan Foals
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Ellen, I have lots of good memories. Jean Gayle Author 'The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520
Orphan Foals
This message is from: Sue Clark-Sorger [EMAIL PROTECTED] I second or third or whatever this one. I have a 5 year old orphan gelding that I raised, I have worked and worked with him and he challenges me often. He will work well for days at a time and then he will run out on the lunge line and he will rear. I can't hold him when he runs out, I have tried a knotted halter a chain over under around his nose, I put the lunge line behind me and around under my butt and hold both ends in front off me and brace ready and once in a while I can hold him but mostly not. It is the rearing that scares me, I don't move as fast as I once did. Until recently he would bite me I haltered him and any other chance he got, he found out I could be the bitchy boss mare one day, and that stopped. Yes, I know I should part him but it is not his fault he was a orphan and why should I pass my problems on to someone else. His mom was the most wonderful horse that I have ever had the joy of owning. I had emailed Beth Beymer about him and have posted her response to me below. I think that your Kez situation, unfortunately, really comes from him having been raised an orphan and you being his surrogate mother. I think that, no matter what you do, he will always try to display his playful (and disrespectful) behavior towards you. You haven't done anything wrong. It seems, to me, that some geldings never seem to mature in a way that mares do (stallions go on to other jobs besides being playful) and have to dispense that playful energy in some way. It seems that he tends to direct that energy towards you. Sue and Kez and Heather in very dry New Mexico Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:31:19 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Orphan Foals This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beth said, Just ask anyone who has raised an orphan how difficult it can be to keep that foal from learning how to push its humans around. And I say, as the owner of an 8 year old orphan foal, AMEN! My poor mare misses her mother so much she nurses herself after you give her a treat. She can't really reach her own teats, but she lifts her hind leg, usually her left, reaches her head back there and sucks on her tongue, for about 4-5 minutes. It is harmless enough as far as I know, so I don't try to interrupt her. If she is tied to the trailer or getting on the trailer, etc., she isn't allowed to, of course. I was wondering if anyone has ever had a foal by such a mother? Would her mental imbalance make her reject a foal? Would she become obsessively attached to it forever? Just wondering, Valerie
Re: Orphan Foals
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] In this case I doubt Beth's pessimism. You are describing my Charley, who just left this earth two months ago at twenty five, a sweetheart and my best friend. C. was born huge and dwarfed his follower mother. My old Arab gelding would let him play with him nipping legs all day. C. was difficult to lead, did exactly the same thing on the lunge of escaping, loved to nip anyone who was not looking and tried his best to take advantage of his great size. Many is the time I let him have it with the crop. He laughed! I was told this was not a woman's horse. Trainers were afraid of him and his size and he made fools of them in the early shows. I was raised very strictly as a child and believe me I was not easy on his bad behavior and he got his punishment. I think Charley's problem was he was overly bright and he thought himself an equal with his rider. He loved crowds and knew when they adored him. Here comes Charley Yeah Charley! He was so big he could stretch that long neck from his stall across the aisle to nip anyone going by. I was dressage and finally found him, did not start breaking him until seven, a male rider who handled him beautifully and they made great progress until Charley at age 14 and third level, winning, caught his leg under my arena door and popped a sesamoid. He had wanted to come home and would hide behind the barn when I got the trailer out. He mellowed as he grew more mature, was my best pal and family. So do not give up. The colt probably sees you as Mom and needs a good nip and eventually a shoe in the right place. I think, barring some genetic disorder, you will find him your smartest and most winning fellow. Jean Gayle Author 'The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520
nervous foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For my first foal, a Morgan, I made a soft cloth halter with Velcro. It couldn't stand a lot of pulling, like you could not lead with it. It was just for the feeling of having a halter, and it was so soft it could be left on. If his foot had gotten caught in it, it would have pulled right apart. He was so delicate at first, I couldn't put a stiff leather or itchy nylon on him Regarding my giant 8 year old orphan foal - she got on the trailer today first try for our first trailering trail ride of the season. We loaded another horse. We had a nice hour's ride with 3 other horses. She did not kick anybody. She did not roll. She was forward and interesting without being scary. Life is good. Valerie
Orphan Foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beth said, Just ask anyone who has raised an orphan how difficult it can be to keep that foal from learning how to push its humans around. And I say, as the owner of an 8 year old orphan foal, AMEN! My poor mare misses her mother so much she nurses herself after you give her a treat. She can't really reach her own teats, but she lifts her hind leg, usually her left, reaches her head back there and sucks on her tongue, for about 4-5 minutes. It is harmless enough as far as I know, so I don't try to interrupt her. If she is tied to the trailer or getting on the trailer, etc., she isn't allowed to, of course. I was wondering if anyone has ever had a foal by such a mother? Would her mental imbalance make her reject a foal? Would she become obsessively attached to it forever? Just wondering, Valerie
OT Lethal white disease in foals
This message is from: Tamara Rousso [EMAIL PROTECTED] I adopted a paint PMU mare that was bred to a stallion that we later found out carried the lethal white gene. Fortunately my mare turned out to not be in foal, but anyone breeding paints should know that the lethal white is NOT just confined to the overos... From a UC Davis article that can be found at http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ceh/HR20-3lethal.html: The lethal white disease is most often associated with the overo spotting pattern in horses, but it can occur in tobianos and toveros as well. Horses with this disease are all white and die shortly after birth due to intestinal abnormalities (similar to Hirschsprung Disease in humans). Surgical intervention has not proved successful; therefore, this condition is lethal in all cases. The whole article is quite good. Tamara As of next week Applegate OR On Friday, August 12, 2005, at 11:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean Ernest wrote: The Lethal white occurs in paints,,I forget which,Overo, I think. breeding two with a lot of white may produce an lethal whit..Many don't even survive to be born. Jean, You are right about it being Overo that produces the lethal white. Howerver, it can happen to any that carry the overo gene. A friend had a crop out mare (QH who had too much for the QH registry at that time) woh had only one white spot on her belly. She had a lethal white when bred to an overo stallion. When I bred my breeding stock mare to an overo stallion I kept my fingers crossed! I lucked out! Barb Lynch
New Foals!
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just wanted to share our birth announcements this year Felix had a new daughter and a new son born here at Bluebird Lane! All went well and the mommas and little ones are doing great! Raldiene, who is by Prisco's sire, Halstor, had a fantastic little filly who has just captured my heart. This filly is so typey and so charming, I just love everything about her. Her name is Ibis (EYE-biss) and when I call her, even if she is way out in pasture, she throws up her head and answers mee-he-he-heee then comes to greet me. Cindy (Ostar) at 23 years of age had a super athletic little colt, his name is Koel, and the moves on him are so entertaining, sometimes he scarcely touches the ground. He keeps his mom busy, that is for sure. I guess that is nature's way of getting the figure back in a hurry. Our foal watch system, consisting of an infrared camera which I can rotate by remote control, infrared spotlight so it all works in the pitch dark, microwave receiver and transmitter (no cables from barn to house) and monitor in our bedroom - the whole system constructed by my electronics hobbyist husband Stefan - worked perfectly again this year, and I was present for both births. Raldiene foaled at 3:30 am on the first night of watching her, I woke at 3:20 and saw her circle and lay down, her tail was twitching in that way it does. We sprinted out there and attended the birth of wonderful Ibis. Cindy I had been watching every hour through the night for two nights and she was acting totally casual, although the signs from her udder said it was time. I put her out on grass Friday morning and started cleaning her stall when I got a funny feeling and looked out the window in time to see her lay down and the water break. So she foaled outside, which was quite lovely with the grass, dandelions, sun and breeze. I sat behind her, and when she sat up in between contractions to have a bite of grass, I moved his feet to remind her to concentrate and get this baby born. Other than that, she really didn't need my help, but I feel I owe it to my mares to make every effort to be there for them. At any rate, I sure didn't need to worry that Cindy was too old :-) This is Cindy's 9th foal and she looks so great, is totally sound, and before getting big in foal was being ridden 6 days per week. You can see photos of our new arrivals on our web site at http://bluebirdlane.com/arrivals.html Also, I have one horse left on my sales list, a super gelding sired by Flotren, he is five years old and grey in colour. This horse has a SOLID temperament and wonderful gaits, with an especially good canter. I have owned him since he was a yearling and he has been brought along by me in dressage training. He has a great attitude to work, he loves it. He's entered for his first open dressage show next weekend, I can't wait! This is a great horse for a timid rider as he is so steady, and for anyone interested in riding dressage because he is well trained and such a nice mover. Our National FEI Pony Dressage Coach said Valebu is one Fjord that truly moves like a dressage horse. Check him out if interested! http://bluebirdlane.com/saleslist.html Lori Lori Albrough Bluebird Lane Fjords Moorefield Ontario http://www.bluebirdlane.com
older orphan foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The mare I bought last summer is a grown up (7yr) orphan foal. She has one odd habit that must stem from her having been an orphan foal; she tries to nurse herself after she gets a treat. It would be comical if it weren't so sad. She reaches back for her flank and cocks her hind leg and sucks on her tongue. She seems to go into a trance and stands there noisily sucking on her tongue. I leave her alone and see no harm to it. If she is given a treat when she loads into the trailer or is tied, she does not try to nurse, but I think that it is her preferred behavior. Other than being aggressive towards her pasturemates and a bit jealous, she seems otherwise pretty normal. Valerie Columbia, CT
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: =?iso-8859-1?q?clare=20brennan?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] i know steve has called for an end to this discussion but when i read some of the posts they made my blood boil.this list is about fjord horses ok, but i thought we were all here because of our love for horses in general?the fact that people are turning their backs on a horse in need just because of its blood is terrible, we wouldnt do it to a human.it all comes down to money in the end and the people that are money orientated by their fjords are just as bad as the farmers that create these innocent by products of the meat industry, maybe you should sit back and enjoy the fact that you own a beautiful horse and not a particular breed!i dont own any horses because i cant afford to,im from england and its quite expensive to keep a horse in my county, but if i did it wouldnt matter what its bloodlines are just as long as its healthy. id like to be removed from the list please steve, its becoming too hostile on this list and the fact that people who do care about the horses are being told to join other list is, well, its just silly. i'll now take my leave ,feeling alot better for writing. bright blessing, clare Ruth Bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Ruth Bushnell this is a fjord line Only ... Bo Fjords are we only allowed to talk about pure bred fjords on this line ...Sue ~~~ Having just inadvertently sent a frame with nothing in it, I guess the element of surprise is gone = (apologies) Talking about cross breds and ADVERTISING them are two different things entirely! The Quilter post which had the website advertising cross breds, was at the very least in poor taste, (on a Fjord List) and I didn't like it either! If a lot of you breeders out there would speak up, you'd admit you didn't appreciate it much. The horse market in general is bad and the last thing we need right now is offers of cheap imitations... which are a hazard to the purebred Fjord industry. That particular post was an advertisment for an unprincipled breeder that had probably supplied the PMU industry and is now left holding a surplus because of current restrictions. There are now hundreds of unwanted cross breds! By promoting their despicable practice in this manner, the lady that posted their site is adding to the problem of cross breed proliferation and unethical breeding practices. There is already an e-mail List for Fjord rescues and that would have been a better choice to post these kinds of notices. I hated to comment on this as I know this subject has caused controversary in the past but all it takes for wrong to succeed is silence. When I think of the many Fjord owners who throughout the years have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and spared no efforts in improving and preserving the wonderful Norwegian Fjord horse, only to have their major investments and self sacrifice diluted and cheapened by unprincipled pirates, it makes me sick! You can talk all you want about the cross bred being a darling horse and their life worth as much as a purebred, (but certainly not their net worth) and I can agree with that, but when you start promoting the practice of cross breeding I see red! Ruthie, nw mt - ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: Tamara Rousso [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve - My sincere apologies. I really do understand the word STOP, but my mistake was in answering an email before reading through all 45 I had this morning. When I got to yours that said no more (two more words I actually understand - and not trying to be sarcastic here, but rather chiding myself) it was too late. I had already sent the email. I should have immediately posted an apology at that point. I wasn't sure if appropriate 'net etiquette was to apologize, again drawing attention to the thread, or to just let it go. I am so embarrassed. Again so sorry. Tamara Hiding out in Fallbrook CA and considering lurkerdom. On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Steve McIlree wrote: This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tamara-- Thursday, August 5, 2004, you wrote: I didn't interpret the post as promoting cross breeding. That has been done by the PMU ranchers already and as long as Premarin holds a market that will continue. I don't mean to pick on Tamara, but I do want to make it clear I am not kidding. Just what part of STOP is it that is hard to understand? We are NOT going to get involved in another discussion of PMU, cross-bred, rescue, etc. The next person who chimes in on this thread may find themselves off the list. -- Steve McIlree Owner/Administrator FjordHorse List.
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tamara-- Thursday, August 5, 2004, you wrote: I didn't interpret the post as promoting cross breeding. That has been done by the PMU ranchers already and as long as Premarin holds a market that will continue. I don't mean to pick on Tamara, but I do want to make it clear I am not kidding. Just what part of STOP is it that is hard to understand? We are NOT going to get involved in another discussion of PMU, cross-bred, rescue, etc. The next person who chimes in on this thread may find themselves off the list. -- Steve McIlree Owner/Administrator FjordHorse List.
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: Tamara Rousso [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 05:38 AM, Ruth Bushnell wrote: You can talk all you want about the cross bred being a darling horse and their life worth as much as a purebred, (but certainly not their net worth) and I can agree with that, but when you start promoting the practice of cross breeding I see red! I didn't interpret the post as promoting cross breeding. That has been done by the PMU ranchers already and as long as Premarin holds a market that will continue. Menopausal women - forgo the premarin! I think the person who posted has a big heart and was trying to save some babies and was hopeful that those of us that love Fjords would be more likely to rescue if Fjord blood was involved. I actually offered to geld a Fjord cross stallion on a Canadian ranch that was described as docile if someone would adopt him. I've no more room, and the thought of that wonderful Fjord disposition going to the meat man made me too sad. There were (are) many stallions in need, but because I love Fjords that is the one I wanted to help. That said (and before you breeders start flaming away) I do have to say that if you want a FJORD you need to get a purebred and you need to be darn picky about the breeder. I do not breed Fjords, but have experience breeding and buying other purebreds. The best way to be happy with the Fjord you get is to look at the breeder's program and spend the time researching. I recently had a thoroughbred breeder chastise me for adopting a PMU mare because it hurt her foal market. I don't agree. First of all I wasn't in the market for a horse - I only did it because I love animals and wanted to save a horse that would otherwise become someone's dinner. Secondly I would never buy a Thoroughbred anyway. And I am holding dear to the day when we move and have more land of getting a second Fjord. Speaking of which I contacted a breeder who occassionally posts on this list and requested a tour while we are vacationing near them. I never heard back. Is it possible said breeder knows from the list I can't buy right now and so doesn't want to waste their time. If so shame! I'll be looking somewhere more hospitable when the time comes... Tamara Rousso Fallbrook CA - where WNV has just reared its ugly head www.algedifarm.com
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: Barbara Kellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] I really need to speak up in Patty's defense. I own a purebred Fjord that I got from a stunt rider in Canada. She had a less than dignified beginning and I've spent countless hours trying to undo the damage done to this beautiful creature. She is not conformationally perfect, but she is my pride and joy and the object of much admiration. My point here is that neither Patty nor I own a Fjord that would compare to one that we could purchase for say $12,000 or $8,000 or even $4,000. But we love the breed and everything about it. By adopting a PMU foal, we are not condoning the PMU industry. We are trying to undo some of the damage done by this horrendous industry but giving wonderful homes to great little horses who are frowned at by people who have no use for anything less than perfect. We, like you, grit our teeth at the practice of mixing Fjord blood with any breed that makes a bigger Fjord.( Biigger Fjords mean more meat.) The PMU industry is going away, slowly but surely. It is all through the efforts of people like Patty and SOS Rescue, that's right, Rescue, and not through the efforts of people who condemn the innocent product of the industry to certain death. We joined the board to share our love of the breed with other Fjord lovers, but instead have been insulted and chastised. It is true that rescues are being phased out and are being given the opportunity to become brokers for PMU farmers. But as people become educated about hormone replacement therapy and the practice of PMU farming, this too shall pass. These so called imitation Fjords aren't doing any damage to the Fjord industry. The only people adopting or buying Cross bred Fjords are people who can't afford the purebred prices. From: Ruth Bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: cheap Fjord foals Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 05:38:14 -0700 This message is from: Ruth Bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] this is a fjord line Only ... Bo Fjords are we only allowed to talk about pure bred fjords on this line ...Sue ~~~ Having just inadvertently sent a frame with nothing in it, I guess the element of surprise is gone = (apologies) Talking about cross breds and ADVERTISING them are two different things entirely! The Quilter post which had the website advertising cross breds, was at the very least in poor taste, (on a Fjord List) and I didn't like it either! If a lot of you breeders out there would speak up, you'd admit you didn't appreciate it much. The horse market in general is bad and the last thing we need right now is offers of cheap imitations... which are a hazard to the purebred Fjord industry. That particular post was an advertisment for an unprincipled breeder that had probably supplied the PMU industry and is now left holding a surplus because of current restrictions. There are now hundreds of unwanted cross breds! By promoting their despicable practice in this manner, the lady that posted their site is adding to the problem of cross breed proliferation and unethical breeding practices. There is already an e-mail List for Fjord rescues and that would have been a better choice to post these kinds of notices. I hated to comment on this as I know this subject has caused controversary in the past but all it takes for wrong to succeed is silence. When I think of the many Fjord owners who throughout the years have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and spared no efforts in improving and preserving the wonderful Norwegian Fjord horse, only to have their major investments and self sacrifice diluted and cheapened by unprincipled pirates, it makes me sick! You can talk all you want about the cross bred being a darling horse and their life worth as much as a purebred, (but certainly not their net worth) and I can agree with that, but when you start promoting the practice of cross breeding I see red! Ruthie, nw mt _ Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to Dig Yourself Out of Debt from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am going to call for a stop to this thread right now. If need be I will filter further discussion on this topic. -- Steve McIlree - Pferd, Skipper Clust - Omaha, NE/Las Cruces, NM, USA Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire(1694 - 1778)
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: Debi Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] I raise Pure bred Fjords but I don't care if someone wants to let the rest of us know where these foals are available. What I do care very much about is that those getting the foals understand, 1. crosses can not be bred to pure bred Fjords. 2. PMU cross stallions should be gelded to prevent such breeding practices. (A cheap breeding is just Too attractive for people to pass up. I went to a BLM adoption recently. $125.00 for some nice young stock. There was a bidding but no one raised the bid. Only a few that went thru were bid on, most were just passed thru. They were bought after the bidding had finished in a second chance round. And here's a kicker---$25.00 for a buddy after you have bought one at the $125.00 price. People were getting 2 or three young mares with breeding plans for them. I can only hope these horses do have a good home for a year while they adopters must wait for title. there is an online auction coming up. you bid on line like Ebay. The animals can then be shipped to a drop off point where you have to pick them up. I guess that isn't Fjord related either, as none of them are Fjords... thankfully!! debi williams
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: Ruth Bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] this is a fjord line Only... Bo Fjords are we only allowed to talk about pure bred fjords on this lineSue
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/4/04 9:24:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This message is from: BO-FJORDS [EMAIL PROTECTED] this is a fjord line Only These are fjord foals, Patty didn't post about quarter horse foals, are we only allowed to talk about pure bred fjords on this line maybe everyone had better show their registration papers before posting?. I have a PMU fjord mare with no papers, am I not allowed to talk about her on this line. This kind of message angers me. Some of us cannot afford to pay the high prices fjords can cost and will do anything possible to own one of these wonderful horses and that includes adopting and saving the lives of PMU mares and foals. Now that off my chest I will go back to lurker land. Sue Sue Clark-Sorger Crown Oak Fjords Sandia Park NM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:43 PM Subject: Re: cheap Fjord foals This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.shaw.ca/sos3/BM_FOALS.htm this PMU rescue site has 7/8 Fjords foals for under $600 each, delivered to several different sites across the US. Patty
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: BO-FJORDS [EMAIL PROTECTED] this is a fjord line Only - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:43 PM Subject: Re: cheap Fjord foals This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.shaw.ca/sos3/BM_FOALS.htm this PMU rescue site has 7/8 Fjords foals for under $600 each, delivered to several different sites across the US. Patty
Re: cheap Fjord foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.shaw.ca/sos3/BM_FOALS.htm this PMU rescue site has 7/8 Fjords foals for under $600 each, delivered to several different sites across the US. Patty
Re: Character in foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I enjoyed the post re dominant mare - jittery horses, In my herd of 5 horses my mare is the alpha. I, too, seperate into two groups. Sven and Lena (alpha) do well togethershe being the dominent one, but, in a kind way. When she is in with all the horses she not only fusses about her space but that of the other fjords. I can also put Hasse (son of Lena) in with her and Sven and all is well. Add the QH or the App.things get crazy. For a time I had Sven, Hasse and Miss Dottie Lottie (leapord app) at a farm nearby. They often commented that there seemed to be no dominent horse and that they all got along beautifully. So, to keep everyone calm I seperate. Safer for handlers as well. Isn't it funny though.take one of the herd away from the group and the ones that can't seem to get along fuss the most:) Have a great day.it is so da** cold here today I am crazy! Way below zero :( Linda in MN
Character in foals
This message is from: Norsk Wood Works [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from Phillip Odden. Perhaps character better defines the qualities good or bad in horses and foals as opposed to temperament or disposition. So Carol, do you think the foal arrives with genetic baggage with regards to character or is the foal a blank sheet of paper so to speak being influenced by its environment and those who control it. There must be a mix of genetic and environmental influence. Further what behavior do you look for in a foal just weaned that would indicate good character? In my experience it is important to promote an atmosphere of trust and respect on the farm. I know the horses will arrive at a level of hierarchy or dominance within the herd. But if one horse rains terror and causes the entire group to be uneasy and jumpy I will isolate the over-dominant individual. It is kind of like regime change, kinder and gentler. With the bully contained the rest of the herd feels better and seem easier to work with. Last winter I let the bully, (a Dutch -bred athletic mare that ruled with an evil eye, a quick hoof, and spade teeth,) have her way with the herd for a few months. By spring they were all pretty jumpy. It took half the summer with plenty of green grass to sooth their spirits. I found the horses less trusting while that mare was in charge. When I isolated the mare form the herd they all seemed to feel better including the boss mare.
Re: foals
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alright, now every one knows I am not a good speller and use spell check. Evidently the computer loves horses and refuses to allow euthanasia to be seen so made it into a musical reference.. Jean Jean Walters Gayle Aberdeen, WA Author:The Colonel's Daughter $20 PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: foals
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was talking to a friend of mine who has a large training arena in Olympia. She says the horse market is deader than any time she can recall. She is in her early fifties. I recall this happening before and many horses being euphonized or mistreated. So when I hear all the births coming I wonder what the world will have to offer the new ones? When this happened before, everyone stopped breeding and then, about eight or ten years later, (maybe longer) there was a shortage of horses!!! My warmblood mare has the best of breeding, but no sale so far. Jean Jean Walters Gayle Aberdeen, WA Author:The Colonel's Daughter $20 PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: Hello!!!! Stallions/Mares /Foals (long!)
This message is from: ceacy henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List! This is Sue Giargiari, a voice from the past. I think it has been a year?? since I have jumped in and posted to the list! I have missed you all! I am farm sitting at Ceacy's and she has been trying to come in from St Croix since yesterday! I just checked the airlines and she is on schedule to fly in at 11:00pm tonite with 5 pups from the Carribean! They are Carribean Found Hounds and every year Ceacy brings some strays back to find homes here, and she always does! I just checked outside and it is snowing lightly now. I know that they closed Logan in Boston but Bradley is still open so I guess I will allow for slow travel(4 wheel drive of course!) and head out in a few minutes. I can't believe that my Jack Russell Maggie is due with pups on the 15 but she is laying here on a chair all curled up with one of Ceacy's jacks, Lilly, and is doing some heavy breathing! Not sure whether to take her or what !! Welcome to the List! all of the newcomers in the last year! It is great to see new folks joining in! Peggy! I can't believe you are moving again! Good luck!! I won't tell anyone whether there is room in our new two car garage for a car yet! or how far the boxes in the 2 horse gooseneck dressing room have traveled this past summer! Time sure flys! Hello to all the newer members! Congratulations to Ruthie and Gayle's group and Catherine is unbelieveable...! One other abbreviation..NFHA. Northeast Fjord Horse Association. When we do a mailing for the dues, which will be coming out in a newsletter shortly, we always have to make sure the NFHA members know that when they get the Equine Journal. We want them to be members of both! Stallions Mares foaling.. We have had our stallion Hilmar, in with a mare when she has foaled. When Ragnar was born, Sunday and Hilmar were in a summer pasture together. We checked her bag twice a day, and she was one to wax up every time. We didn't check one day when we went off and when we got back after dark and headed the truck lites into the pasture, there was Sunday, down with Ragnar out except for the hind legs. He was sitting up looking at Sunday. Hilmar was just standing there about 20 feet away, head down, on guard! Dick had to go hook up the trailer, then we loaded Hilmar in first, and carried the foal while Sunday followed us into the trailer. Tied up Sunday in the back of the stock trailer and I sat with the foal just about in my lap so he wouldn't try to get up! Of course I talked to him the whole time and when he was all settled in, I went up to house to get a bucket of warm molasses water for Sunday to drink and when I got back and started to imprint Ragnar he heard my voice and went nuts talking to me and trying to get up!! He 'bonded' with me as I talked to him in the trailer on the ride from the field to home! LOL! I stayed out of the barn for quite a few hours and he was then fine, answering only to Sunday! We put her right back out into the pasture the next day, with Hilmar, the one near our house, and Hilmar was fine. Even when he pasture breeds, except for the first one of the summer, when he gets carried away and has to go oh Yeah! No chasing!! all over hill and dale!! The mare puts him right in his place if she isn't ready to breed. The foal, even at 9 days old, knows to stay the heck out of the way! They usually get up in front of mama! When we wean the foals, they stay with Hilmar, as the mares stay with him all summer and winter, as long as they are bred back. I keep Dena with him, his Dam, but she is bred back to Konggard. I do pay attention and I can see or hear any funny business if she were to come back into heat. If we take the two mares out to work, the foals stay in with Hilmar. Then they don't panic as they are in the familiar place. When the mares are all bred, and with Hilmar, Stella is the alpha mare! He is low man on the totem pole, except for breeding time. The colts will also play with him. On another note, I had a group with a bred mare, Rosita and two geldings, a yr and a half and a 7 year old, get in with Hilmar and his herd. When we found them, the younger gelding, who had grown up in the pasture with him, was grazing just a few feet from him. The gelding, who was brought in as a 6 uear old, was no where to be found. After I fixed the fence, I walked out to the very back woods of the pasture and there was the gelding, about as far away from the herd as he could get. Just standing there resting with one leg cocked. He had a few bites but nothing major. Hilmar drove him away but let the younger one stay. I geld at 4 months, a few weeks before weaning, less trauma and swelling on the youngster. The fillies stay with him until they are a yearling, maybe a little later. I haven't had one come into heat while that age. Knock on my wooden head! Congratulations to Janice! I too saw Herman in Norway and Catherine was trying her hardest to get him!! That is so
Already an update on PMU Fjord cross foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone, Here is an update on the post I emailed earlier. Here is the latest word from Sandy regarding the PMU foals in Oregon. RobinThe foals have all been bought from the farm in Canada and brought to Sisters, Oregon and are just looking for homes now. There are about 230 of them. The ladies name over there that is watching over all of them is Virginia at (541) 595- 6143. Thanks Sandy EVEA Horse Rescue Emerald Valley Equine Assistance Eugene,ORSue-Ellen Brown, Psy.D.
Re: quiet foals, normal?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/5/2002 8:13:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1st foal, 1st time I've been around a Fjord foal. I think she should run and jump and buck more, she does some, but not as much as I anticipated. The vet will be out Monday for a well baby checkup and first vaccinations. She is wormed monthly. She shares momma's grain and hay and has pasture. She has a playmate in the donkey yearling. So, she is fairly calm in pasture, very calm to handle. Was imprinted. Already leads, stands tied, loads, good w. clippers, gives her feet and tolerates a bath, at 10 weeks. I've seen friend's foals of other breeds and none of them were this workable. She is just as calm and friendly as you could imagine a foal to be. As my mom would say count your blessings and don't go looking for trouble. g She sounds like a lovely baby that you've been handling nicely. Nothing wrong with it not being a basketcase. :) Pamela A HREF=http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html;Northern Holiday Horses/A
Re: quiet foals, normal?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope; My little Hasse is much the same. He is 3 1/2 months old. Leads from both sides, stands nicely to be haltered, backs on voice command and a little touch, clips, bathes (loves it!!), loads and trailers quietly, stands nicely, tied, to eat his grain - when finished does not fuss - just plays with the tie rope. This is my first foal and feel as though he was more of a handful when a month old. He plays a little with my older gelding - but not alot. Rarely runs and bucks - but, he really runs, squeals and bucks when we let him in the round pen all by himself. Loves to run really fast - I think it is because the footing is good. Anyway, he is just a joy! Linda in MN - here comes the heat and humidity:(
Re: quiet foals, normal?
This message is from: Hope Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear listers, I probably have new mom worries, but want to ask anyway, are Fjord babies calmer than other breed's foals? 1st foal, 1st time I've been around a Fjord foal. I think she should run and jump and buck more, she does some, but not as much as I anticipated. The vet will be out Monday for a well baby checkup and first vaccinations. She is wormed monthly. She shares momma's grain and hay and has pasture. She has a playmate in the donkey yearling. So, she is fairly calm in pasture, very calm to handle. Was imprinted. Already leads, stands tied, loads, good w. clippers, gives her feet and tolerates a bath, at 10 weeks. I've seen friend's foals of other breeds and none of them were this workable. She is just as calm and friendly as you could imagine a foal to be. Maybe this is a fairly normal range of behavior for Fjord babies? I plan to ask the vet to draw blood for a CBC just to be on the safe side. Thanks, Hope N IL
Re: feed for foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/5/2002 9:21:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What do people feed for the foals? Just pasture, some hay? Any grain? We do just Mom pasture till weaning time, then depending on the foal and how much they stress we might give them a bit of grain. I'm not a big fan of really pumping the grain to babies like they do (or used to do when we were breeding) QHs. Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords Redmond, OR Fjord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feed for foals
This message is from: Hope Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] What do people feed for the foals? Just pasture, some hay? Any grain? Thanks, Hope
Re: Re: Dogs\Flies and Foals
This message is from: Reena [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have to throw in my two cents here. A friend of mine had a Australian Cattle Dog..cute as bug, but no matter what she did this dog wanted to HERD!it would circle the horses endlessly when they were out. The only thing she could do would be to lock her up. she even wanted to 'herd' my kids! The dog did get kicked a few times, nothing serious, but still it would herd. That is just what they are meant to do This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter wrote: ... 2) I have a new dog who is just great with our three small kids and wonderful on the farm except where horses are concerned The dog is a Shep\Collie mix, one year old and always been in a city Your dog is genetically programed to have a strong instinct to herd. It may be difficult to ever reliably train this dog not to herd your horses. Horse kicks and human punishment will ~not~ deter a herding dog, speaking from experience. --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002
Re: Re: Dogs\Flies and Foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter wrote: ... 2) I have a new dog who is just great with our three small kids and wonderful on the farm except where horses are concerned The dog is a Shep\Collie mix, one year old and always been in a city Your dog is genetically programed to have a strong instinct to herd. It may be difficult to ever reliably train this dog not to herd your horses. Horse kicks and human punishment will ~not~ deter a herding dog, speaking from experience. This dog is young -- perhaps age and careful, consistent training will help. But scolding your dog is not an appropriate way to go about it -- you need a stronger (= positive reinforcement) way to do it. Instinct is an incredibly strong motivator -- punishment is not an effective deterrent for instinctive behavior. If you cannot find a way to deter the dog from herding your horses, do the dog a kindness and find it a loving home without horses to herd. DeeAnna
Re: Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list,no?
This message is from: Alison Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi W. Peter Randall, If you can get hold of a training collar. I have one that is an electic collar that is controlled by a hand held button. Most of the larger pet store carry them, some will even rent them for a week or so. The collar work for me on a guardian dog, who as a year old pup decided that the goat he was to protect were fun to play with. It does sound like you mare may be bagging up. Alison Bakken Sundre, Alberta ...One of the hottest and driest on record. The price of hay has gone thur the roof.
Re: Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list,no?
This message is from: bolinsj [EMAIL PROTECTED] I agree that I don't recommend the procedure, but my first pony, Beast trained our poodle not to chase and nip his heels. He was usually a dog hater and would blast them good, but seemed to know that Elan was one of us. He waited until she made a grab at his ankle and 'lifted' her clear into the air, throwing her a few feet. She hit with a thud. She continued to follow us around, but at a comfortable distance. Beast discouraged a lot of dogs over the years we had him. And anyone or anything that looked like it was 'after his herd'. I think the 'shocker collar' is a pretty good method even though it sounds harsh. I have a couple neighbors who have used it to deter their dogs (sheepdog, setter) from chasing neighbors cows. I couldn't find a shocker collar small enough for our little dogs. Martie in MD T Peter, Let me say that I don't really reccomend this method because it cost me money at the dog vet, but my Irish Setter was cured 2 years ago from chasing horses by one swift kick to the head. He lived but won't talk about. When the horses come out into the lawn where he is ( with an invisable fence ) he
RE: Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list,no?
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] That wasn't positive reinforsement but it worked. You MIGHT be able to duplicate this more safely if you could administer an electric fence sized shock that the dog would think had come from the horse. I do not have experience with shock collarsbut I have seen dogs that would not even walk anywhere in the direction of an electric fence line after they were once shocked by it. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list,no?
This message is from: Bill Kelley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Carol J. Makosky Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:14 PM To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list,no? This message is from: Carol J. Makosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] W. Peter Randall wrote: This message is from: W. Peter Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED] A few things from the Niagara Region in heat struck Ontario... 2) I have a new dog who is just great with our three small kids and wonderful on the farm except where horses are concerned. He takes after them and especially bothers my exquisite filly Elsa (Leader Lane) - and she's something, never had a horse person see her who didn't want to buy her. The dog is a Shep\Collie mix, one year old and always been in a city. I have been leading horses down the drive, by the dog while my wife has him on a leash and choke collar and she chokes him and says no everytime he barks at a horse. We also tie him up whenever he is bad like this but as you can imagine it can be quite dangerous. Last night I was taking Elsa into her stall after grooming and the dog flew out of nowhere biting her back legs and Elsa and I did dangerous out of control circles around her stall till I kicked him out and got the metal stall door shut. I am praying the horse novelty will wear off but am obviously concerned for the safety of the horses and us humans! ADVICE GREATLY APPRECIA Peter, Let me say that I don't really reccomend this method because it cost me money at the dog vet, but my Irish Setter was cured 2 years ago from chasing horses by one swift kick to the head. He lived but won't talk about. When the horses come out into the lawn where he is ( with an invisable fence ) he normally goes to the other side of the house so he won't be reminded of being knocked silly. That kick was from a rather porky QH mare. The Fjord (Henry)got a good kick in to the head of a neighbors German Shepard that charged him from behind while we were adjusting our saddles on the side of the road accross the street from the dogs house. Henry was eating grass and never lifted his head. The dog went flying and yelping back to the house. The owners adult son came out and told us not to ride by their house anymore because we hurt their dog (who would never attack a horse, Henry had to attack him). We had to apoligise for my horse because his dog crossed the road (leash law in effect)so my horse could attack him . That dog doesn't even bark at horses anymore. That wasn't positive reinforsement but it worked. Bill Kelley Webster NY
Re: Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list, no?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Peter- So much to learn! And it never ends. I resisted using fly spray till quite recently. No, it's not natural and yes, it is toxic. However, in nature horses roam over a large area and their dung does not pile up in one place, attracting flies. Also they are not fenced so they can seek relief in dust, shade, water etc. AT my new boarding facility there are LOTS of flies. I'm swatting them off myself, and it's rather annoying. I purchased and tried the new spot type fly repellent, and it worked well. It only needs to be applied once every two weeks, and it's odorless. The horses are much more comfortable. Re: dogs. Congrats on your new pup! Negative reinforcement (pulling on leash, saying no) will actually make the problem worse. Your dog will start to associate horses with punishment and get more and more agitated around them. Check around for a good dog trainer who uses positive reinforcement/clicker training. With these methods it's possible to reprogram your dog's responses to certain stimuli, like horses. Keep us posted! Brigid M Wasson San Francisco Bay Area, CA A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A A HREF=http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html; Fjordings West/A / )__~ /L /L
Re: Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list,no?
This message is from: Carol J. Makosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] W. Peter Randall wrote: This message is from: W. Peter Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED] A few things from the Niagara Region in heat struck Ontario... 2) I have a new dog who is just great with our three small kids and wonderful on the farm except where horses are concerned. He takes after them and especially bothers my exquisite filly Elsa (Leader Lane) - and she's something, never had a horse person see her who didn't want to buy her. The dog is a Shep\Collie mix, one year old and always been in a city. I have been leading horses down the drive, by the dog while my wife has him on a leash and choke collar and she chokes him and says no everytime he barks at a horse. We also tie him up whenever he is bad like this but as you can imagine it can be quite dangerous. Last night I was taking Elsa into her stall after grooming and the dog flew out of nowhere biting her back legs and Elsa and I did dangerous out of control circles around her stall till I kicked him out and got the metal stall door shut. I am praying the horse novelty will wear off but am obviously concerned for the safety of the horses and us humans! ADVICE GREATLY APPRECIA Hi, I would try a remote shock collar on the dog. This sounds like a very bad and dangerous situation and is not good training for your horses to accept and trust dogs. I don't even want to think of what could happen if you are driving down the road and a dog comes out after the horses have had to deal with the one at home. Did you get this dog as a pup? Good Luck I want to take this time to thank all of you in Canada for sending down the high with much cooler and drier air for us in WI. I enjoyed an almost bug free drive this morning. -- Built FJORD tough Carol M. On Golden Pond Northern Wisconsin
Dogs\Flies and Foals - Good title for a message to the list, no?
This message is from: W. Peter Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED] A few things from the Niagara Region in heat struck Ontario... 1) Re: Only thing works around here is a flyswatter I found that quite amusing. I myself can't help but think about flies and horses in a different light. Lots of people cover themselves in bug repellant and go for a walk. I have never touched the stuff. I realize people are vastly different but naturally horses do not have fly spray in their wild herds now do they? I hope my Fjords are burning calories swatting flies, heaven knows they always find a way to eat too much! You can spend a lot of money on fly sprays but aren't flies on horses a little bit natural like mosquitoes on people? Some get swatted, some actually bite..question is, is there any long term harm done? That being said, I am a novice that knows nothing... 2) I have a new dog who is just great with our three small kids and wonderful on the farm except where horses are concerned. He takes after them and especially bothers my exquisite filly Elsa (Leader Lane) - and she's something, never had a horse person see her who didn't want to buy her. The dog is a Shep\Collie mix, one year old and always been in a city. I have been leading horses down the drive, by the dog while my wife has him on a leash and choke collar and she chokes him and says no everytime he barks at a horse. We also tie him up whenever he is bad like this but as you can imagine it can be quite dangerous. Last night I was taking Elsa into her stall after grooming and the dog flew out of nowhere biting her back legs and Elsa and I did dangerous out of control circles around her stall till I kicked him out and got the metal stall door shut. I am praying the horse novelty will wear off but am obviously concerned for the safety of the horses and us humans! ADVICE GREATLY APPRECIATED! 3) As mentioned before, I am awaiting my first foal. Half Diamond Kristi out of Lukas is due the 24th of July. As she is a maiden mare and I the greenest novice..it is a difficult combination. I cannot see the signs and quite frankly I don't think she is providing any. I know sometimes maiden mares show no signs until poof the foal has arrived. Last night I noticed two soft lumps in front of her teats on my daily inspections. I think these are new but cannot be sure. Kind of like a couple of testicles, soft and pliable. Is this her bagging up? Am I a pitiable Neanderthal? Advice??? 4) PS love the barn swallows, try to keep as many nests and birds as I can. Flies are never a problem in the barn where they live. But then I just love nature and I love the farm being home to birds and trees. Knock yourself out eating flies and mosquitoes I say. The barn is your home! 5) PS I'm a hypocrite on liking everything natures way...I do love the Fjords mane trimmed and standing straight up and keep mine this way. Seems un-Fjord like and unmajestic (bad English-that's not a word Peter!) all flopping around wild. 6) I am busy reading books like Carole's excellent Fjord Handbook, the list etc. Thank you all for the great advice and learning. The woods are lovely dark and deep but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep... Sorry for the length!!! W. Peter Randall Beamsville Ontario
Re: PMU Fjord cross foals
This message is from: Holly Tuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Karen, You may already have your answer but I know that I purchased two fjord crosses last year. Unfortunately one died as a result of an accident. She was the 3/4fjord/belgian cross. Our other girl is a 3/4 QH/Fjord cross. If you want more info just email me at my private email address. Holly from Manitoba --- Karen Petty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Karen Petty [EMAIL PROTECTED] A while ago there was a discussion on this list about PMU Fjord cross foals. Does anyone know if this is still occurring with Fjords in and, if so, what the current situation is? Thanks, Karen Petty [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif] __ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: pmu foals
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check this site out also. http://www.naeric.org/default.asp here's a web site: www.pmufoalquest.com/foals/coaston2002.htm To find out about foals from pmu fjord mares, I assume that you could contact the representative and get that information. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
pmu foals
This message is from: sandra church [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi-earlier someone asked the list about information on pmu foals. I'm missing posts lately so her question may have already been answered but here's a web site: www.pmufoalquest.com/foals/coaston2002.htm To find out about foals from pmu fjord mares, I assume that you could contact the representative and get that information. Warningthese pictures melted my heart and I can only hope that every foal can be adopted so remember that you were warned.Sandra in Va. MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
PMU Fjord cross foals
This message is from: Karen Petty [EMAIL PROTECTED] A while ago there was a discussion on this list about PMU Fjord cross foals. Does anyone know if this is still occurring with Fjords in and, if so, what the current situation is? Thanks, Karen Petty [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif]
Re: foals sweating
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way, Jean it was warmer in Alaska on one day last week than in Florida - the weather guy got a kick out of that. It's beautiful today, but back to the 90's next week I hear. Well, It will be 85 degrees here today, definitly too hot for me...the weatherman on the Today show mentioned Fairbanks this morning..forecast 85 in Fairbanks, when New York was only to be in the 50's. Trouble is we'll be right into fire season with this hot weather, after a late breakup. Leaves popped out over the weekend. Spring lasts for about 2 days herethen right into summer. Poor Fjords haven't lost all of their winter coat either. (just to make this Fjord related!) Jean in Sunny and hot (to us) Fairbanks, Alaska 82 degrees and the hottest part of the day hours away! 19 hours, 20 minutes sunlight! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: foals sweating
This message is from: Nancy Newport [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Jean for your comment about your foal sweating at a few days old. I have been collecting all kinds of information on this and it seems to vary widely between foals being able to sweat at birth to foals can take up to 6 weeks or more to begin to sweat. The best info I've gotton for my problem is that it can take some time and meanwhile if you're having a heat wave you need to cool them off. Since I am in the south I would appreciate anyone's experience on foals and heat regulation and I will pass on what I find out to the list. I currently have a recent vet school graduate friend doing some more research for me. I especially would like to know if there have been any studies done in a controlled environment - so far I haven't come across any, but then I really don't know where to look. By the way, Jean it was warmer in Alaska on one day last week than in Florida - the weather guy got a kick out of that. It's beautiful today, but back to the 90's next week I hear. Thanks, Nancy Newport
Re: congrats to all new with new foals..
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone, It is very exciting to hear about all the new arrivals! I just brought home our younger mare Budeia after what we hope was a successful insemination on Sat. I was a bit embarassed going to Fed-Ex asking for a semen shipment...new experiences..:) Our older mare Agneta is at 318 days and we are axiously awaiting the arrival of her little one. She is definately nesting. Each night she walks straight to her stall which is very deep in straw and she gives me that big doe-eyed look and a big sigh. We are getting some needed rain and everything is so green. As I headed out after midnight to check on Aggie I smelled skunk. I kept thinking what a sight I would be in my flannel nightie coverered with horse hair and skunk! Spring days are exciting.. Have a great day:) Kathy Rollins
Re: OTHER leg problems in foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aimee, I did surgery today on two different foals with the same problem. If the angle is not too bad it may correct on its own, maybe with corrective trimming. If it has a significant amount of angle then surgery may be needed. It is a simple procedure to stimulate the growth on the outside. Severe angles require a more involved surgery requiring wires or staples implanted on the inside to slow the growth there. Some time there is no bone problem, just joint laxity which they will out grow. Either way, I would limit the activity of the foal. Having it run around on the crooked legs could damage the joints. Confine it to a stall or small pen until you and your vet decide what to do with it. No hurry to do anything. I usually give them a month before making any plans. Steve White, DVM Waterloo, Nebraska
Re: OTHER leg problems in foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 5/16/02 6:25:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Our baby ~ Cynric, not yet a week old, was born Knock Knee'd, right leg shoots out to the side, quite a bit. I was HOPING with a little exercise it would come back under himbut to no avail. Vet was out yesterday to gelded my yearling, and looked at him...said to give him another week, but because there hadn't been any real improvement...it wasn't looking good. Surgery was probably in his future. My little one is a little knock kneed. About the same age as your little one (3 days old). The vet said they should come around, not to rush it. It could be a couple of weeks, or even a little longer. Then he didn't mention surgery, but splints. So see what nature does your your little boy. It may work out for the best. But if intervention IS needed, I think the prognosis is good. But your pocket book will be a little bit lighter. Pamela
OTHER leg problems in foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi list, I almost wish a contracted tendon is what I'm facing right now seems like a pretty easy fix, but I'm not. Our baby ~ Cynric, not yet a week old, was born Knock Knee'd, right leg shoots out to the side, quite a bit. I was HOPING with a little exercise it would come back under himbut to no avail. Vet was out yesterday to gelded my yearling, and looked at him...said to give him another week, but because there hadn't been any real improvement...it wasn't looking good. Surgery was probably in his future. We didn't discuss logistics at this point...just wanted me to be prepairedhe'll come back in a week and look at him again I was wondering if anyone else has faced this...? Dr. Steve, your imput? :) He is the most HANDSOME foal I have seen in yearsand it just saddens my heart to have him less then perfect. It sure hasn't held him up anyhe's outside now running laps around momflying lead changes and everything :):):) God he's CUTE !!! :) Ok...just thought I'd bring this up...while we're discussing leg problems in foals. Thanks, Aimee
Re: foals splints
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lauren, Thank you. That was nice of you to say. Thank you Steve White for all your attention to the list, I may throw in a different opinion every once in awhile please know how much I appreceiate you caring about our fjords, you are a good man. Steve White Waterloo, Nebraska
foals splints
This message is from: Snowy Mtn. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our personal experience is, we have had one case of a foal of needing splints in nearly 30 born here. This happened on a year that I had my brood mares on a much higher source of protein and highly fertilized clover, alfalfa grass mix. Our vet coming from Sask. experience several (6) foals needing splinting the first year he arrived in our area. A large herd (over 30) that had previously never had this problem. No more such cases since. He I both are much more careful about the feed given ie. no overdoing the protein. Good Grass is the greatest. Therefor I would not rule out feed as a contributing factor. It is so hard to see foals horses suffer. I wish the best to all of you out there that have lost a foal a mare or have a sick one. I understand how heartbreaking it is. Good Luck We are so lucky to have a healthy herd. Thank you Steve White for all your attention to the list, I may throw in a different opinion every once in awhile please know how much I appreceiate you caring about our fjords, you are a good man. Lauren Sellars yeh miss aloe vera, www.fjordhorse.net
Foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone, Thanks for all the congrats on our new foal, she is certainly a doll! Nancy, good luck with your second foaling. Hopefully our Michigan weather will be a bit more helpful then this past weekend! Lynda and Daniel Bailey's Norwegian Fjord Horse Farm White Cloud, MI 231-689-9902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords/
Foals for sale
This message is from: kim Gibson-Rogstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's sadly time to part withour three beautiful colts. All of them are halter broken, handled daily,trimmed every six weeks and are well behaved in cross ties.Two of the colts were sired by Felix, a wonderful approved breeding stallion from Norway. We see them as excellent breeding prospects themselves. For more information contact Kim And Gunnar Rogstad at Tall Pines Farm, Sutton Ontario 905 722-4241 e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fjord cross PMU foals
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 11:10 AM 1/8/2002 -0700, you wrote: Hmmmthis brings up an observation I have made...admittedly not based on a lot of instances...but an observation nonetheless. In the effort to get Fjords with athletic ability, the breed (in some states/countrys) may be moving in general toward lighter and lighter built stock. Howeversome of the nicest Fjords I've seeen...from the standpoint of having powerful, suspended movement and athletic abilities...have come from a combo of drafty mares and lighter built stallions. So...simply from a pure economic viewpoint...the PMU farms should use drafty Fjord mares and well-selected lighter built FJord stallions. That way they have drafty mares producing urine and quality foals to sell. (You have to assume here that the market really is for the more athletic Fjords...not so in some parts of the country, I know. You also have to assume the PMU farms are well enough organized and financed to actually market the FJord foals properly.) I certainly in no way meant to criticize the woman for saving the Fjord cross foal. I only wanted to convey my dismay at the thought that Fjord mares were being used in PMU farms. If it is only Fjord studs being used as Jean says, I feel somewhat better. However I wonder, since the name of the game as I understand it is to have a drafty mare that will provide a lot of urine. -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd Skipper -- Omaha, NE/Las Cruces, NM, USA Wherever man has left his footprint in the long ascent from barbarism to civilization, we will find the hoofprint of a horse beside it. --John Trotwood Moore Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fjord cross PMU foals
This message is from: D T [EMAIL PROTECTED] Foalquest, the organization that the gal got her foal from, does an excellent job in saving many foals that would go to the meat market including the 3/4 Fjord x foal. Now I understand why it would be best to not cross breed Fjords and I am sad that it happens. However it happens and no one can stop that. I do hope that no one treats that gal with the Fjord x unkindly just because she doesn't have a fully registered Fjord. I am planning on adopting a foal this spring and if I can get a Fjord cross to save I will do that or any other draft x. Fjords are absolutely wonderful but so are many other horses. I can only think if I there was only one horse I could have and the choice was anything other than a registered Fjord I would take a Fjord cross. (although it could never be as cute as Lars :-) There are many, including myself, that would love to have a full-blooded Fjord but can't afford them. I got Lars because the breeder is trusting enough to let me pay him off over time. Otherwise I may be one that was hoping somewhere I could find a Fjord cross. I do hope I have not offended anyone as that is not my intention. I think the Fjord world is fantastic and will always advocate that Fjords not be cross bred. However I am unwilling to put a scarlet letter on a foal because it is only part Fjord. The part Fjord is probably the best part :-) Deb _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Fjord cross PMU foals
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Deb-- Tuesday, January 08, 2002, 10:00:35 AM, you wrote: I do hope that no one treats that gal with the Fjord x unkindly just because she doesn't have a fully registered Fjord. I am planning on adopting a foal this spring and if I can get a Fjord cross to save I will do that or any other draft x. I certainly in no way meant to criticize the woman for saving the Fjord cross foal. I only wanted to convey my dismay at the thought that Fjord mares were being used in PMU farms. If it is only Fjord studs being used as Jean says, I feel somewhat better. However I wonder, since the name of the game as I understand it is to have a drafty mare that will provide a lot of urine. -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd Skipper -- Omaha, NE/Las Cruces, NM, USA Wherever man has left his footprint in the long ascent from barbarism to civilization, we will find the hoofprint of a horse beside it. --John Trotwood Moore
Re: weaning foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/24/2001 12:53:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To those who raise foals, what is the best age to wean them? ... 5-6 months?Also, when weaning foals, are they taken away gradually? That is, are they brought back to the dams say once or twice a day to nurse? Or are they weaned cold turkey? We wean anywhere from 4 to 6 months- depending on the foal. It's size, growth, etc. And we wean cold Turkey I think it's easier on the Mare and foal in the long run. We ALWAYS put the weanling in with a buddy, whether it's another weanling, or just another horse (Our late stallion Bjorn-Knutson was great as a weaning buddy). Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords Redmond, OR Fjord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
weaning foals
This message is from: John Eunice Bosomworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To those who raise foals, what is the best age to wean them? ... 5-6 months?Also, when weaning foals, are they taken away gradually? That is, are they brought back to the dams say once or twice a day to nurse? Or are they weaned cold turkey? If so, do you take some milk from the mother if her udder is hard? Fjordally yours, Eunice[EMAIL PROTECTED] John Eunice Bosomworth Deere Country Fjords Ayton, Ontario, CANADA `
Fjord Foals
This message is from: Robyn Millar [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've seen so many nice Fjord foals for sale this fall, I am really tempted! I have raised several light horse foals, but only one pony (and that was a shetland). I am wondering what the feeding requirements are to raise a healthy foal (not an old-time halter baby, blob). Anyone who cares to share advice can e-mail me privately at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Robyn Millar
Re: stones/id of foals, etc.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ursula, the stones are pretty common in geldings in this area. I'm told mares get them, too, but pass them much more easily. Alfalfa is a contributor because it is high in salts. When I went out with Ginny Cowles in Rowe NM to pick out Ida, we went out in the truck and about 30 fjords saw people and came a running. She said, This is Ida, and totally befuddled I asked, How do you know? She pointed to her neck and said, See, she has a curl. I have two half-sister mares a year apart and it was a good 6 months before I knew them apart instantly. Now, I dont think they look anything alike :-} Riba is more upheaded and a touch arrogant and has dark hock stripes. Ida is more athletic and looks like Betty Boop with long eyelashes she bats at you. Cynthia, most lists get a little nuts once in a while. I think when you see it coming it's best just not to read for about a week until it passes. I think it has something to do with the limitations of E-mail as a form of communication and the fact that it's new enough we haven't deveoloped sound courtesy forms across the board. Me, I've finally learned to write long hostile answers and then say, Get over yourself, girl, nobody made you queen of the world, and immediately delete them without mailing. Turns out the world turns nicely without my input. Gail in Tucson
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just checked out the website, which has good information on this subject; I suggest anybody wanting to know more look at this website: http://www.pmufoalquest.com Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, soggy again after .7 inches rain. The monsoon season has arrived! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To repeat the gist of my original message: If someone on this list wants to adopt a Fjord-cross PMU foal that would otherwise have gone to a packing plant, you now have the information necessary to do so Based on a question sent to me by private email, I will add that no Fjord-cross horse can be registered with either the U.S. NFHR or the Canadian CFHA. Ah yes, but there were some Fjord cross colts there that looked like they would make very nice geldings. Both fillies and colts which are not registerable CAN make very good 'using horses'. Just try to choose the cross that best fits what you want to use the horse for eventually. And the price is right, plus you are doing something kind for an animal that just deserves a chance to live out its life. Mary = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I understand why there are those who do not wish to engage in an endless debate about the ethics of PMU farms. For the record, I am one of them. I am a wee bit nettled that some individuals think my original post is apparently an invitation to do so. To repeat the gist of my original message: If someone on this list wants to adopt a Fjord-cross PMU foal that would otherwise have gone to a packing plant, you now have the information necessary to do so -- see my previous post on this topic. Based on a question sent to me by private email, I will add that no Fjord-cross horse can be registered with either the U.S. NFHR or the Canadian CFHA. The parents of these cross-bred foals, at least according to NFHR rules, are also ineligible for (continued) registration. DeeAnna
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] PLEASE, Lets not start the PMU discussion again! AMEN, Jean!! = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have had this discussion before, I must have missed it. Sorry!
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wouldn't it be easier to organize such a protest movement against the whole PMU business that even the chosen ones in the business would run for their safety and end the problem by using synthetics? If you kill their profits or pie their faces badly enough, they move on. No more PMU foals to have to save. Merek
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And from us, Thanks Jean . Wondering how are all the people that have had some accidents lately are.Hope all are on the mend and enjoying the weather and their Fjords. Amy has been horse farming at Lynn Millers this last week and again this week. She enjoys that so much. Mowing the hay and bringing it to the stack and then up on the stack, making a beautiful stack for winter feeding. Like her dad she feels she was born 100 years to late. Give us the OLE days. Tillie Dun Lookin' Fjords Bud,Tillie Amy Evers Redmond OR (541) 548-6018 http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/8589
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: Tekin Family [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 7:34 PM Subject: Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have talked many women out of using Premarin and switching to estrogen replacement hormones made from other sources than mare's urine. There are several that are manufactured from sweet potatoes that work just as well according to their doctors. And the women seem just as satisfied with the other medication. From the literature I have read from PETA, and the photos I have seen of the farming practices used to collect mare's urine, it is a practice that seems cruel to any horse lover. Similar to veal farming. And there is the issue with the discarded foals. If List readers looked in to this, maybe they can convert more women into switching from Premarin to something else. I myself have used natural herbal products with great results. What I would like to know if these colts and fillies will have future health problems and if anyone out there has adopted any I am very interested after seeing the site. Linda please email privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: Lynn Mohr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Jean!
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] PLEASE, Lets not start the PMU discussion again! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have talked many women out of using Premarin and switching to estrogen replacement hormones made from other sources than mare's urine. There are several that are manufactured from sweet potatoes that work just as well according to their doctors. And the women seem just as satisfied with the other medication. From the literature I have read from PETA, and the photos I have seen of the farming practices used to collect mare's urine, it is a practice that seems cruel to any horse lover. Similar to veal farming. And there is the issue with the discarded foals. If List readers looked in to this, maybe they can convert more women into switching from Premarin to something else.
PMU Fjord-cross foals for adoption
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was extremely surprised to learn recently that there are some Fjord-cross foals being born at the PMU (pregnant mare urine) farms in Alberta and Manitoba, Canada. I thought maybe some people on this email list might be interested in adopting one of these foals, so I'm passing the info along to you all. (Pregnant mare urine is used to manufacture Premarin, a product taken by menopausal women to replace the estrogen their bodies used to naturally manufacture.) Each fall, the weaned foals are sold at auction. According to information at FoalQuest, http://www.pmufoalquest.com , over two-thirds of the auctioned PMU foals do go to good homes. The remaining foals will go to meat buyers, unless they are rescued by one of a number of groups who attempt to save the unwanted foals. One person on a draft-horse forum I read said that many draft and draft-cross foals are at greater risk of being bought for slaughter, because many auction buyers don't want draft foals. Anyway, if you are interested in adopting a PMU foal from FoalQuest, you have until August 31 to mail a contract, a wish list of the kind of foal desired, and the appropriate funds ($500 for light, $600 for draft cross, and $700 for draft). The details are available at the website. There are photos of two Fjord-cross foals available for adoption at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=88874a=12700010f=0 (look for #49 and #02, Belgian-Fjord foals -- #49 in particular has the classic brown dun Fjord coloring) I don't have any affiliation with FoalQuest, by the way. DeeAnna
Re: Itchy foals
This message is from: LarryMargaret Shorhen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Try dusting the horses with D.E.. We use it for all kinds of insect control,,it is non-toxic and as it falls to the ground/bedding it kills insects there as well. Hope this will help you a little bit. Larry Shorhen
Itchy foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: gnats and no-see-ums In Minnesota we also have gnats -- have noticed they REALLY bite one mare, love to burrow down in my fjord geldings folds and just nibble on my QH. The mare is almost crazy they bother her so much. She has big scabby areas where they bite and bite. I use gnat away and a generous blob of clear SWAT on areas I know the gnats will go to -- but, if at all possible I put them in their stalls. I don't go out when the darn gnats are out -- and their bites not only itch but swell up and hurt. UFFDA!!! Linda in MN
Re: holes in mane/foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 5/11/01 3:31:32 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: no grass..no holes! i hope it works I don't think it would work for me, because they do it for more than just food but to visit with all and sundry. It's not like anything really grows here. But maybe now that they're in a different environ, they'll do something different. My tenant in Albuquerque had a horse pregnant with her first this year and she was ok at dinner and dead in the morning. I have heard of more losses this year. And then with Sue's loss, I'm afraid my girls may be joining the cloister. I guess if you don't want to lead with your heart, you just shouldn't have horses, but ouch. Gail in Tucson
FOALS - BRAGGING
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello All, I returned home from Norway to find 2 foals here at the farm and 2 reported on the ground at other farms. Announcing the additions to HESTEHAVEN 1. Oyane - Grey Filly from Blaamann and Karimill Born on April 27, 2001 (I was in the air on the plane to Norway) 2. Overmann - Brown Colt from Blaamann and Kariya on May 8, 2001 (I was on the plane going home from Norway) 3. Filly - Brown from Blaamann and Korlina Born May 5, 2001 in Oakdale, California 4. Colt - Bay from my AQHA Stallion and my mare Krystle Born on April 2, 2001 in Utah. All are healthy and all are doing fine. Papas are very Proud and all Mamas are going well. Catherine Lassesen
Foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congrats to all with new babies! Lynda and Daniel Bailey's Norwegian Fjord Horse Farm White Cloud, MI 231.689.9902 http://hometown.aol.com/heithingi/BaileysNorwegianFjords.html
Bragg alert ~ late foals
This message is from: Julie Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fløtren arrived at our farm in early October of 1999, having been in quarantine at Cornell for 5 weeks. We had two outside mares waiting for his arrival, MVF Viola, belonging to the Lapp Family, and Phelisia, a brown dun imported daughter of Briggen (a grey), belonging to the Lunde's. Both mares foaled early in September; a filly for the Lapps and a colt for the Lunde's. These are Fløtren's first American born offspring! The filly, Valena, (a brown dun) is so lovely, with tiny ears and muzzle, good bone and correct legs, and a beautiful high head carriage. The colt, much to all our surprise, is a grey, also beautifully put together. We had not expected Fløtren to produce greys! His Norwegian offspring have all been brown or red duns, as far as we have been able to determine. We are extremely pleased with the quality of these foals, and the grey color is the ice cream on the cake! Congratulations to their proud owners! Julie ~ Old Hickory Farm, Weedsport, NY
Re: BDF STALLIONS FOALS BORN WITH CONTRACTED TENDONS NOT ALWAYS SERIOUS
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wonder if the contraction is more often found in maiden mares with large foals? My Charley's dam was 15.2 and maiden. He about killed her getting the shoulders through and two of us had to pull as she contracted. He was huge and matured at 17.2 1/2 (Trakehner...not Fjord..gasp) He walked on his back pasterns for a week despite splints put on by a cow vet. He was also windswept as her uterus was too small. His right legs actually curved to the right outside. Yet he straightened out to achieve third level dressage before injuring himself. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: BDF STALLIONS FOALS BORN WITH CONTRACTED TENDONS NOT ALWAYS SERIOUS
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - From: misha nogha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Carole's new kids This message is from: misha nogha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congrats Carole. Nice to hear you got another full brother to King and Obelisk. Of the two I really took to Obelisk and think he is a dandy stallion. Oby has a certain something I really like. You have produced some good ones!!! Thanks, Misha, for your kind words about BDF Kanada King and BDF Obelisk. Of course, you have the right to prefer one of the brothers over the other, but I did want to point out that IF that preference has to do with behavior, and I would suppose it does, but then again, maybe not (you can tell me that), what I'd like to point out is that we sold BDF Kanada King as a six month old to a woman without a lot of horse experience. He was a perfectly nice baby when he left here, and I feel that maybe things could have been done differently with him resulting in a much happier horse, a calmer horse. An exellent example is BDF Obelisk, owned by Starfire Farm. Beth and Sandy bought Obey when he was 1 1/2 years old. We'd always kept him with a young gelding. The two of them played constantly, thus Obey was never a frustrated young stallion living alone. We advised Beth to continue these arrangements when she got Obey to Colorado, which she has done. We'd also handled and trained Obey a lot. He was ground-driving quietly in harness when he left here, and was a pleasant, contented young stallion. Beth is an expert horsewoman. She knows how to train and how to command respect, while at the same time maintaining a good relationship with her horses. We're absolutely delighted that our top notch stallion is in the care of Beth and Sandy at Starfire Farm. We honestly couldn't wish for more. Obey lives out all the time in the company of geldings. Unless you present him to a mare, you wouldn't guess he was a stallion, unless of course, you spot him in the group and say, Wowee!!! That Fjord most certainly is a breeding stallion. He's awesome!!! I have to tell you that almost all of the offspring from our stallion, GJEST, and the beautiful mare, STINE, have been outstanding examples of the breed. As to the sons, all but one have been incredibly good. The one that wasn't quite as good was still an unusually beautiful and well conformed Fjordhorse. He simply didn't possess that extra something you need for a breeding stallion. So, while you're certainly entitled to your preferences, I just want to say that all three of Stine and Gjest's sons that are breeding today are equally fine and impressive examples of the breed - BDF KANADA KING, BDF MALCOM LOCK BDF OBELISK. They all share the same blood, which has been proven over and over to produce the highest quality to be found anywhere. If one of them has shown less than ideal deportment, then it's likesly to be caused by environment rather than genetics. --- At Beaver Dam Farm, we've learned over the years never to keep a young stallion by himself. They need companions the same as all the other horses. We sold BDF MALCOLM LOCKE to Nancy Roemer in Ohio, and he's produced many beautiful Fjords already at a young age. Malcolm left us as a 2 yr. old, and was already driving having had a lot of attention from our driving trainer. Malcolm is outstandingly beautiful, a good breeding stallion, and a pleasant using horse. Nancy is another experienced horsewoman who has also done a great job with one of our stallions. We're just as pleased that Malcolm Locke is with Nancy Roemer as we are that Obey is with Beth and Sandy. It's owners like these that make everything worthwhile. (By the way Carole, nice of you to point out that big babies sometimes are born contracted and usually come out of it. Very kind and honest!) Misha Thanks again, Misha. You're right that big foals often are born contracted. It's happened maybe six times with us over the years out of over sixty foals born, and as I think about it, all of them were colts, and all big ones. I was pretty upset the first time it happened, but a wise old vet in N.H. said the colt would straighten out quickly. He advised me to take a Polaroid photo of the colt's legs each day to see the difference. I didn't do that, but they quickly righted themselves. One year, we had a colt born in the field, BDF JUBILEE CANADA (Gjest x Maryke). This one was REALLY knuckled over. He wasn't walking on his fetlocks, he was walking on his knees. In fact, we had to carry him in from the pasture, and hold him up for nursing. However, we started the physical therapy on him right away, and by the third day, the tendons released to a marked degree, and he was on his way to being perfect. So, that's why I don't get excited anymore about this. However, one thing I want to caution everybody about if this happens to you
Re: New Foals at Beaver Dam Farm SALE HORSES
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carol I like Ranier better than Remco which sounds like a company logo. How wonderful to get the worries over with in one fell swoop Congratulations Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: New Foals at Beaver Dam Farm SALE HORSES
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - We've had our two foals for the year, and Boy!, am I glad that's over. I was really nervous this year fearing that one of the mares would have a difficult birth. I was particularly concerned about Riena, a 4 yr. old imported from Holland. Not that I had any reason to be particularly concerned, other than the fact that this was her first foal. No real reason, but nevertheless, I was worried!!! Riena was overdue by about 10 days. Stine, the other pregnant mare wasn't due for about 10 days. Guess what? They both foaled early Thursday morning at about the same time. We could tell because both foals were equally wet. They also foaled within 20' of each other as that's where we found the placentas. Isn't that amazing? I wish somebody could tell me how this happens. --- Since last Thursdays 'Miracle', I've heard that women living together will menstruate at the same time. Must be the same phenonomen. I told you sometime ago that I wanted to name at least one of the foals after the two mares that died in the barn fire in Newfoundland, RANI and REINE. I thought we'd get a filly this year after three colts last year. Now, I have to figure a way to masculinize the names Rani Reine. I was thinking one of the colts could be - BDF RAN REINER. It has a nice, strong ring to it, I think. I'd also like to name one of them after a young man from Holland who was with us several years ago. We've stayed in touch and maintained the friendship. His name is REMCO. This is Beaver Dam Farm's R year. Riena's colt is perfectly formed, cute, very lively, and little only in comparison to Stine's colt who is unbelievably HUGE, MUSCLED TRULY GORGEOUS IMPRESSIVE. He's a full brother to BDF Kanada King, BDF Obelisk, and BDF Malcolm Locke. He's terribly long-legged, and was born with his hooves knuckled over. However, I wasn't too concerned as I've seen this before and it corrects itself quite quickly. This colt couldn't even walk on his feet, he was so over at the fetlocks. So, we put him in a stall, and stared Physical Therapy . . . a really useful kind of Imprint Training. We just pulled on his pasterns and gently stretched the tendon. The next day, he was much better, and by Saturday, he was walking flat on his hooves. We think Stine's colt may be a red dun, and if so he'll be stunning because the stripe is very distinct, just not black . . . so far, anyway. We'll have to wait and see, but I'm hoping for a gorgeous red dun. There are other signs as well. One hoof is definitely lighter. And, most interesting of all, is that the skin of his scrotum is not black. --- We're betting on a beautiful red dun. ~~ SALE HORSES - MIRA - 14 yr. old Norwegian imported mare. In foal to Gjest. Drives. Green broke to ride. Excellent quality mare that produces beautiful foals with her gorgeous head. --- Offered at very attractive price. JACOB - 5 yr. old gelding. Tall, big good looking. A really nice horse professionally trained to ride and drive. Has had (so far) 5 months professional driving training. Great character and temperament. Ideal competetive or family horse. A hands down favorite here with everybody. Our trainer is begging me to keep him for our Beginner Driving Vacations. SASKA - 8 yr. old mare. Daughter of the wonderful imported stallion, Holunder. At BDF on consignment and for re-training. She's super gentle and kind. Rides drives. Going well, but needs more good quality training. I really like this mare. I find her extremely soft and pleasant. She deserves a kind and permanent home. You will like her as much as I do. KASPAR - 4 yr. old gelding. Son of Solar. Very nice and good looking. Just started his driving training, and going well. JARLE - 2 yr. old gelding, sired by Solar, and out of top Dutch Keur mare. A very high quality horse. Good looking with excellent temperament. Started his driving training with us last Fall, then went back to his owner. Now he's back to start in harness, and for sale. An excellent horse for a good owner. BDF QUENTIN DURWARD - 1 yr. gelding sired by Gjest, out of beautiful Dutch mare. This is a gorgeous horse with a temperament you won't believe. FULL BROTHER TO BDF IDAR, the dressage horse owned by Elaine Olsen in Los Angeles. FULL BROTHER TO BDF MISS NAVETA, the beautiful driving horse owned by Betsy and Michael Scott in MN. A lovely gelding sired by Gjest, out of one of our best mares. QUINTESSA - Yearling filly sired by KONGGARD, out of imported Norwegian mare. Absolutely beautiful filly with excellent character. Well mannered and very sociable. Can do anything with her. IMPORTED 2 YR. OLD FILLIES - Still a few available. Call for details. Best Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm
Naming of foals and their parents
This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decided that while I still am waiting for my foal (Lori you lucky dog, another one hits the straw!) I should develop a name not only for the foal, but for ME .. have decided on grand-mare (as in grandmere, for the non-francophones out there) .. With a french husband, I thought this was highly appropriate and sounds rather important but it doesn't work for the guys.
Re: naming foals 2000 - oops!
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To early in the morning - just realised that the word varg probably doesn't mean wolf in Norwegian. It's called ulv (which is the Old Scandinavian/Nordic word). Hmmm...wonder what varg means...:o) Have to check that up when I go back! Anneli ** Anneli Sundkvist Dept. of Archaeology Ancient History St. Eriks torg 5 75310 Uppsala SWEDEN +46-18-4712082 (work) +46-18-553627 (home)
Re: naming foals 2000
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linda wrote: My mare, Stella III, is in foal to Erlend for late April, 2000. Since this is our first, and this year the letter is V for foals, where do you find the names list for authentic Norwegian names for fillies colts? I personally think that a good name for a colt is VARG, which means wolf in the Scandinavian languages. Another one is VESTLAND - the part of Norway where the cradle of the Fjordhorse stood. In the old days, I think that the name Vestlandshest was used more than Fjordhest. VIKING is another suggestion, but perhaps it has been used a lot? I'll think about filly-names. Have to prepare a lecture right now. Regards Anneli (in Sweden) ** Anneli Sundkvist Dept. of Archaeology Ancient History St. Eriks torg 5 75310 Uppsala SWEDEN +46-18-4712082 (work) +46-18-553627 (home)
Re: naming foals 2000
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My mare, Stella III, is in foal to Erlend for late April, 2000. Since this is our first, and this year the letter is V for foals, where do you find the names list for authentic Norwegian names for fillies colts? Thanks for any info. you folks out there can share with me. Linda Wollowitz, in thawing, muddy, but sunny Syracuse NY.
Stallions, early foals
This message is from: Margaret Strachan [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been wondering about all the early foals in cold country, or late depending on whether or not you consider January 1st as a universal birthday. I can't understand December foals for that reason. Here in very warm, sunny Southern California I can see January foals, and I've had 2 mares under lights since mid December for early foals next year. Both mares will be shown and the foals will be almost weaned by the start of show season. I also won't have to halter break foals in 103 degree weather. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. It has been between 70-80 degrees daily with nightime lows 40-50 here. I know it has been cold up north because the local snowbird mecca has been swamped. When we insured Valbjorn the vet had to check fertility. That test entailed hefting and measurements recorded. Valbjorn is a docile and quiet horse; he stood for the indignity without even a halter on his head. No calipers though, Dave is a super experienced breeding vet and he just used his hand. Funny thing though, he called me about 1/2 hour later and asked me to check the form--he thought he had erred and written cm instead of mm as the unit of measurement. He was right. Margaret Strachan Village Farm Nuevo, CA http://www.pe.net/~barry/
Still On Foals
This message is from: sini seppala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Saskia and all! I'm sorry this is a long post. However, we know that many people think about this kind of things and think they are worth discussing. Are you planning to do some of the so called imprint training? You don't have to repeat every exercise 100 times like it's sometimes said - if the foal relaxes earlier which is quite possible. The only thing which is quite important to do 'by the book' is that you should wait until the foal relaxes before you let him go. (Will call the foal 'him' from now on.:) He WILL instinctively try and get up at some point even if the situation is quite nice. IF you let him get up, the foal will learn that unclear situations can be solved by force. But if you go on stroking until the foal relaxes and then let him go, hewill learn that unclear situations can be handled by calming down. It's also useful to let him get an idea of all kinds of things he's going to come across later on. It's good to let him learn by watching what mom does. For example our foals have understod the idea of driving by watching their dam pulling a cart. When we then start driving them they know right away that they are supposed to go forward although the human is now behind them and not by their side like when being led. Especially if the mare is calm she can teach her foal to face all kinds of situations and places with confidence (bikes, flying hens, ditches, barking dogs etc.). She will also teach her foal how to communicate with people - and that's why we think it's a good idea to make sure the mare has a chance to be a good role model: it'd be great if she didn't have to do anything which will make her protest because the foal will pick that up. If she has to do something uncomfortable it might be a good idea to find something for the foal to do in the meantime so that he won't see her dam having disagreements with people. When hesees mom being friendly and cooperative hewill start doing the same. Also if there are other horses around who sometimes for example test their limits, it might be best not to show those conflicts for the foal. Another thing which we've found useful and which is discussed by some vets over here, too, is to let the foal get used to various circumstances - hills, rocks, woods. Their tendons and muscles get much stronger and more flexible than on even fields and they learn to look after their feet - good for future jumpers (and all others). This also greatly reduces the risks for all kinds of injuries - that they are allowed to run in the woods when they are little. They do know how to do it from the very first day - and they will easily forget all about it if they are kept on fields only. You can also see quite clearly that their movement develops into what their capacity really is - which may not happen when they are mainly on even fields. It would be nice to hear everybody's thoughts about these things. Thank you in advance. Everybody have a wonderful year change and all the best in 2000! Sini in Finland. home page at http://www.saunalahti.fi/~partoy/Juhola6.html
Still On Winter Foals
This message is from: Sini Seppala [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...if you wonder why I recommended the address of Cyberfoal: it's good to know where to get information - obviously it sounds like everything will go just fine for you. There is one centre for this purpose even in the Netherlands these days, by the way, it's mentioned at this Cyberfoal site. Sini. home page at http://www.saunalahti.fi/~partoy/Juhola6.html
Re: Winter Foals
This message is from: saskia schoofs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Sini! Thank you for your mail! You really made me feel more at ease! I was so nervous lately, as if Kitty were the first mare in the world to have a foal! But thanks to you and of course thanks to Pamela, Brian and Joanna and the knowledge this list exists, I begin to feel as if everything will be allright! I love your website! We actually had to use a hair-dryer which she enjoyed so that she fell asleep in our hands. (A good form of imprint training!) :- I have to find my hair-dryer! I only use it in summer (to stir up the barbecue :-))) Kaci also seemed to be happy to be able to choose the actual place herself. aha. The (foaling) stall is in a small pasture with trees. If she foals by dailight and it doesn't freeze, it might be safer indeed to let her choose where to foal. From then on the baby and Kaci were outdoors all the time. If Kitty likes her herd I would probably let her foal in the company of the others. It may be a nice experience for her to know that the others are there to guard her safety won't the young colts attack the foal? Well, I hope to have them gelded still before the birth, but I don't know if that's possible in December. If the weather remains like this not, but maybe it will change. I don't think it matters to the foal whether the colts are gelded. But I guess you mean you can't put them together with Kitty so that they won't breed her. yes, also. and because I heard horror stories about colts/stallions killing foals. But on the other hand, my farrier (again him!) always lets his mares foal in the herd, with his stallion, and there has never been an accident or incident. You could also check these sites out: http://horseforum.com/tjones/manual.htm http://www.cyberfoal.com/ good idea Thanks again for your help! Good luck and a lot of happiness to you, your family and all of your horses and other animals in 2000! Saskia
Winter Foals
This message is from: Sini Seppala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Saskia, our Kaci had one of her foals here in Finland when there was still some snow on the ground in places. Guess what - the baby (Troia) must have known it was cold outside as she was born with a thick, wooly coat - quite different from e.g. the following foal Somnus who was born with a silky coat next summer! So she was definitely warm except when she ran so much she got wet one evening. We actually had to use a hair-dryer which she enjoyed so that she fell asleep in our hands. (A good form of imprint training!) Kaci didn't have a blanket when she was foaling in her pasture. However, had she been sweating more she might have needed one afterwards. The temp was about 2-4 degrees Centigrade. I think it's safer to let the mare foal outdoors if possible because there's no way the foal can end up in a difficult position between the mare and a wall or anything like that. Kaci also seemed to be happy to be able to choose the actual place herself. She picked up a nice, even, safe place under the trees. (Quite many Fjord people around here also think the foals who are born outside often become even healthier than other Fjord babies. At least Kaci's foals have always been completely healthy.) From then on the baby and Kaci were outdoors all the time. If Kitty likes her herd I would probably let her foal in the company of the others. It may be a nice experience for her to know that the others are there to guard her safety - especially since she is a dominant mare: I don't think the others will disturb her. If you want to keep them separate you could still turn them out with the others quite soon. The idea of having your Shetland pony with her sounds very good. In any case, Kitty will protect the foal from the others if they tend to get too wild. It took Kaci about an hour before she recovered well enough to realise what she's supposed to do. First she didn't protect the foal as much as she perhaps could have when the rest of the herd wanted to get to know the newcomer. Everything went well, however. I don't think it matters to the foal whether the colts are gelded. But I guess you mean you can't put them together with Kitty so that they won't breed her. There are a lot of good foaling-related sites on the net. You could try 'foal', 'foaling', 'imprint training' and words like that on some of the search engines. You could also check these sites out: http://horseforum.com/tjones/manual.htm http://www.cyberfoal.com/ All the best to all of you! What a wonderful way to start a new millennium! Sini. http://www.saunalahti.fi/~partoy/Juhola6.html
