from:"R C"

I tried to post one of these "classic western signs"..  saying  ...   
"No scum allowed"   it needs moderator approval apprently.



but...    how about that?


Ron


On 7/18/21 10:54 PM, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

How about making it very simple, something like "Be excellent to each other."


 On Sunday, July 18, 2021, 1:58:54 PM MDT, R C  wrote:
  
  
On 7/18/21 1:22 PM, Mark Wendt wrote:

Whoever decided we somehow needed a Code of Conduct. Someone needs to
enforce it, no?

Nah,  it could be done like gun control in Chicago
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 7/18/21 9:58 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:33 -0600, R C wrote:

On 7/18/21 9:24 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:16 -0600, R C wrote:

On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:

I missed the beginning as well, but I think something
happened
that
was
not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?

I really have no idea.

No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
important.   I
asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".

Personally, I don't see the need for it.

I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when
they
can't
be explained.
You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't
pretty.   If
someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.

Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a
"cooperative
effort"
between a number of very intelligent folks.

I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal
to
follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious
who
thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even
start.

Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some
cases
intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an
objectively
tiny
set of additional rules for the common good.

Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by
someone
for
others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and
therefor
not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S' storm
you
see going on here, and rightfully so.

You are again misunderstanding my words: I didn't say that rules
are
objective, I said it is an objectively tiny set of rules (compared
to
some other CoC like the Sourceforge one and the W3C one).
And yes, who runs the project has admin rights and owns it in
practice,
and has the right to issue rules for others to follow.

You need to meticulously read what you just sent, possibly more than
just once,  but please use a dictionary when you do, too look up the
meaning of words like "objective"..   I had to learn English too,  it
is
my second language,  I know it can be hard at times.

(although I  actually have the impression that you're just spewing
nonsense, and when someone calls you on it, you claim them to be too
dumb and not actually understand what it is you said. That is not
how
language works.).

I wrote exactly the thing I had in mind and it is absolutely the right
thing, the meaning is the same in italian and in english:


So it's nonsense in both languages...    glad you figured that out by now.




https://context.reverso.net/traduzione/italiano-inglese/Oggettivamente

"
Oggettivamente è giustificabile, è corretto. -> Objectively this is
justifiable, it is correct.

Oggettivamente parlando, - ha un aspetto più virile. -> Objectively
speaking, he does appear more virile.
"





Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal
decision.   It
doesn't
take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and
helpful!
Tread lightly!

I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped
humanity.
Try and find something else you have done that has "helped
humanity".
That is BIG.

Lets not blow it.

Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have
helped
me
and
others with LCNC.
I really appreciate your efforts!  :-)

Dave


On 7/17/2021 1:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

WOW - I missed it all!

My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I
didn't
check
emails until we returned.

Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment
with
the
obligation to comment.

The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the
list
has been
doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event",
is
appropriate.

I don't know what triggered the need for putting in the
work to
develop the
COC but I trust Jeff has identified the need.

I don't know who/what is going to be the COC sheriff but it
will be
a
thankless job. Even more thankless than general
development. :)

It is my hope the job of COC sheriff is somewhat less
interesting
than the
maytag repairman job.

thank you Jeff for your attention and work

Stuart

I was encouraged when I saw Valerio comment about making a
project.
He is
thinking about getting back to work. We should follow his
thought
pattern.
:)

My only negative feeling was when it was suggested a
democratic
vote would
fix it. Democracy is mob rule - nothing else. It is one
hundred
people
walking into a restaurant and waiting until 51 have agreed
on
what
to eat
and then everyone has to eat what the 51 decided everyone
needs
to
eat. Not
pleasant.





On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:48 AM Mark Wendt <
wendt.m...@gmail.com>
wrote:


On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:07 AM andy pugh <
bodge...@gmail.com
wrote:


On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:55, Mark <
wendt.m...@gmail.c

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 7/18/21 9:52 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:33 -0600, R C wrote:

On 7/18/21 9:24 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:16 -0600, R C wrote:

On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:

I missed the beginning as well, but I think something
happened
that
was
not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?

I really have no idea.

No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
important.   I
asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".

Personally, I don't see the need for it.

I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when
they
can't
be explained.
You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't
pretty.   If
someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.

Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a
"cooperative
effort"
between a number of very intelligent folks.

I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal
to
follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious
who
thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even
start.

Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some
cases
intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an
objectively
tiny
set of additional rules for the common good.

Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by
someone
for
others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and
therefor
not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S' storm
you
see going on here, and rightfully so.

You are again misunderstanding my words: I didn't say that rules
are
objective, I said it is an objectively tiny set of rules (compared
to
some other CoC like the Sourceforge one and the W3C one).
And yes, who runs the project has admin rights and owns it in
practice,
and has the right to issue rules for others to follow.

You need to meticulously read what you just sent, possibly more than
just once,  but please use a dictionary when you do, too look up the
meaning of words like "objective"..   I had to learn English too,  it
is
my second language,  I know it can be hard at times.

(although I  actually have the impression that you're just spewing
nonsense, and when someone calls you on it, you claim them to be too
dumb and not actually understand what it is you said. That is not
how
language works.).


The CoC is just an application of real world practices: it is like you
went visiting me at home, not only you have to follow the law, in
addition you have to follow my rules if you want to stay, and if you
start a flame against my rules it is sure that you cannot stay, because
I own the home and have the right to kick you out.


seriously,  you need to try  and read what it is you're trying to say,  
before you hit the send button, because again,  this is again just 
nonsense,  ...  word salad.








Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal
decision.   It
doesn't
take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and
helpful!
Tread lightly!

I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped
humanity.
Try and find something else you have done that has "helped
humanity".
That is BIG.

Lets not blow it.

Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have
helped
me
and
others with LCNC.
I really appreciate your efforts!  :-)

Dave


On 7/17/2021 1:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

WOW - I missed it all!

My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I
didn't
check
emails until we returned.

Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment
with
the
obligation to comment.

The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the
list
has been
doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event",
is
appropriate.

I don't know what triggered the need for putting in the
work to
develop the
COC but I trust Jeff has identified the need.

I don't know who/what is going to be the COC sheriff but it
will be
a
thankless job. Even more thankless than general
development. :)

It is my hope the job of COC sheriff is somewhat less
interesting
than the
maytag repairman job.

thank you Jeff for your attention and work

Stuart

I was encouraged when I saw Valerio comment about making a
project.
He is
thinking about getting back to work. We should follow his
thought
pattern.
:)

My only negative feeling was when it was suggested a
democratic
vote would
fix it. Democracy is mob rule - nothing else. It is one
hundred
people
walking into a restaurant and waiting until 51 have agreed
on
what
to eat
and then everyone has to eat what the 51 decided everyone
needs
to
eat. Not
pleasant.





On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:48 AM Mark Wendt <
wendt.m...@gmail.com>
wrote:


On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:07 AM andy pugh <
bodge...@gmail.com
wrote:


On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:55, Mark <
wendt.m...@gm

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 7/18/21 9:24 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:16 -0600, R C wrote:

On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:

I missed the beginning as well, but I think something happened
that
was
not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?

I really have no idea.

No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
important.   I
asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".

Personally, I don't see the need for it.

I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when
they
can't
be explained.
You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't pretty.   If
someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.

Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a "cooperative
effort"
between a number of very intelligent folks.

I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal to
follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious who
thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even start.

Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some cases
intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an objectively
tiny
set of additional rules for the common good.

Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by someone
for
others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and
therefor
not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S' storm
you
see going on here, and rightfully so.

You are again misunderstanding my words: I didn't say that rules are
objective, I said it is an objectively tiny set of rules (compared to
some other CoC like the Sourceforge one and the W3C one).
And yes, who runs the project has admin rights and owns it in practice,
and has the right to issue rules for others to follow.


You need to meticulously read what you just sent, possibly more than 
just once,  but please use a dictionary when you do, too look up the 
meaning of words like "objective"..   I had to learn English too,  it is 
my second language,  I know it can be hard at times.


(although I  actually have the impression that you're just spewing 
nonsense, and when someone calls you on it, you claim them to be too 
dumb and not actually understand what it is you said. That is not how 
language works.).









Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal decision.   It
doesn't
take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and helpful!
Tread lightly!

I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped
humanity.
Try and find something else you have done that has "helped
humanity".
That is BIG.

Lets not blow it.

Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have helped
me
and
others with LCNC.
I really appreciate your efforts!  :-)

Dave


On 7/17/2021 1:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

WOW - I missed it all!

My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I
didn't
check
emails until we returned.

Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with
the
obligation to comment.

The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the
list
has been
doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event", is
appropriate.

I don't know what triggered the need for putting in the work to
develop the
COC but I trust Jeff has identified the need.

I don't know who/what is going to be the COC sheriff but it
will be
a
thankless job. Even more thankless than general development. :)

It is my hope the job of COC sheriff is somewhat less
interesting
than the
maytag repairman job.

thank you Jeff for your attention and work

Stuart

I was encouraged when I saw Valerio comment about making a
project.
He is
thinking about getting back to work. We should follow his
thought
pattern.
:)

My only negative feeling was when it was suggested a democratic
vote would
fix it. Democracy is mob rule - nothing else. It is one hundred
people
walking into a restaurant and waiting until 51 have agreed on
what
to eat
and then everyone has to eat what the 51 decided everyone needs
to
eat. Not
pleasant.





On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:48 AM Mark Wendt <
wendt.m...@gmail.com>
wrote:


On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:07 AM andy pugh 
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:55, Mark 
wrote:


Bullshit.  It's a sign that someone(s) wants to create
political
division and strife

No, I think that we can be 100% sure that that was never
Jeff's

intention.

--
atp


It may not have been his intention but it certainly has
turned
the group
into just that.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:

I missed the beginning as well, but I think something happened that
was
not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?

I really have no idea.

No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
important.   I
asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".

Personally, I don't see the need for it.

I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when they
can't
be explained.
You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't pretty.   If
someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.

Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a "cooperative
effort"
between a number of very intelligent folks.

I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal to
follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious who
thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even start.

Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some cases
intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an objectively tiny
set of additional rules for the common good.


Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by someone for 
others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and therefor 
not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S' storm you 
see going on here, and rightfully so.







Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal decision.   It
doesn't
take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and helpful!
Tread lightly!

I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped humanity.
Try and find something else you have done that has "helped humanity".
That is BIG.

Lets not blow it.

Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have helped me
and
others with LCNC.
I really appreciate your efforts!  :-)

Dave


On 7/17/2021 1:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

WOW - I missed it all!

My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I didn't
check
emails until we returned.

Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with the
obligation to comment.

The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the list
has been
doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event", is
appropriate.

I don't know what triggered the need for putting in the work to
develop the
COC but I trust Jeff has identified the need.

I don't know who/what is going to be the COC sheriff but it will be
a
thankless job. Even more thankless than general development. :)

It is my hope the job of COC sheriff is somewhat less interesting
than the
maytag repairman job.

thank you Jeff for your attention and work

Stuart

I was encouraged when I saw Valerio comment about making a project.
He is
thinking about getting back to work. We should follow his thought
pattern.
:)

My only negative feeling was when it was suggested a democratic
vote would
fix it. Democracy is mob rule - nothing else. It is one hundred
people
walking into a restaurant and waiting until 51 have agreed on what
to eat
and then everyone has to eat what the 51 decided everyone needs to
eat. Not
pleasant.





On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:48 AM Mark Wendt 
wrote:


On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:07 AM andy pugh 
wrote:


On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:55, Mark 
wrote:


Bullshit.  It's a sign that someone(s) wants to create
political
division and strife

No, I think that we can be 100% sure that that was never Jeff's

intention.

--
atp


It may not have been his intention but it certainly has turned
the group
into just that.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct


for what it is worth:


I have been on and off this list for a good long whle, mostly lurking (I 
first signed up probably a decade ago, probably different email addr)



What I never saw happen, accept on rare occassions, is getting a 
"personal" email from another member.


Now I am get half a dozen to a dozen a day. So that CoC has two side 
effects, already, it seems.



1] Directly emailing each other about things that could be on the list, 
but also not really  BUT also


2] The amount of "social interaction", things that don't necessarily 
have to do with CNC. I must say, I got to know several people quite a 
bit better, so that is good



:)


Hey what about an ethics list of something?   let's see what that does.


Ron


On 7/18/21 2:23 PM, Bari wrote:

On 7/18/21 1:08 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:


Who is the sheriff?

Whomever has admin, Op, kick, ban, etc. etc. status for the mail list, 
IRC, forums. wiki, etc.etc.



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 7/18/21 2:18 PM, Mark Wendt wrote:

Snort. That works so well.


It working well  was never the intention,  it's the "control" part that 
was of interest.


Ron



On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 15:59 R C  wrote:


On 7/18/21 1:22 PM, Mark Wendt wrote:

Whoever decided we somehow needed a Code of Conduct. Someone needs to
enforce it, no?

Nah,  it could be done like gun control in Chicago



Mark

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 14:11 Stuart Stevenson  wrote:


Who is the sheriff?

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 9:37 AM fxkl47BF via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


On Saturday, July 17th, 2021 at 12:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson <
stus...@gmail.com> wrote:


WOW - I missed it all!
My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I didn't

check

emails until we returned.
Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with the
obligation to comment.
The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the list has

been

doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event", is

appropriate.

it's "a non-event" until the sheriff bans you



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 7/18/21 1:22 PM, Mark Wendt wrote:

Whoever decided we somehow needed a Code of Conduct. Someone needs to
enforce it, no?


Nah,  it could be done like gun control in Chicago



Mark

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 14:11 Stuart Stevenson  wrote:


Who is the sheriff?

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 9:37 AM fxkl47BF via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


On Saturday, July 17th, 2021 at 12:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson <
stus...@gmail.com> wrote:


WOW - I missed it all!
My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I didn't check
emails until we returned.
Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with the
obligation to comment.
The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the list has

been

doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event", is

appropriate.

it's "a non-event" until the sheriff bans you



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-17 Thread R C

Oh come on, don't be so negative, this CoC thing is not really a bad 
thing,  that is what I think by now ..   it is starting to look like it 
is working after a few weeks.



I have been included in some "spin of's" from threads that die out on 
the list itself, or didn't even make it there, and some EMC users 
amongst themselves keep chatting outside the list, in sort of a EMC sub 
CC-list, directly.



Maybe that is just the noise the CoC wants to get rid of to begin with, 
right?  who wants that?  right? the general 
CNC/maching/tips/ovrbearing-help  I even was included in a few threads 
in EMC topics, I didn't even see on the mailing list. as in "hey did you 
see this?"  "check this out",   etc...


That is a good thing,  that way no one gets offended by seeing a mailing 
list topic they didn't expect,  without a trigger warning,  or sees 
unexpected CNC topics they are not interested in. It is really cool to 
see how considerate a bunch of people have become in no time,  by not to 
just include everybody on new cool stuff for no apparent reason.


I think it's a good thing, it looks it is very considerate, that some 
responsible list members send email to others with subjects starting 
with "[Emc-user]" (see it?) first  than actual immediately to 
[Emc-users] list,  that way no one gets offende or so by unexpected 
Linux-CNC topics. etc ...



I think this CoC thing might actually really be on to something,   
something more.. "refined" more considerate,  more thoughtful ...   ... 
something I never thought of really ...     like, for example, one 
should not just include everyone, in some CNC or linuxcnc topic,  
blattantently assuming they might like it. Since this is a technical, 
CNC, linuxcnc group,  one should be aware that not everyone in the 
"linuxcnc" mailing list is interested in every linuxcnc topic...   that 
would be assumptious, offensive and wrong.   keep it up guys,   I think 
it is great and really going somewhere!!



Ron





So yeah   *lolo*   god job



On 7/17/21 9:31 PM, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:

  I prefer the term "Special" to stupid.

I'm not "Special" enough to believe that the "COC" will help anything or anyone.
Scott

 On Saturday, July 17, 2021, 1:05:37 PM CDT, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:
  
  Yes, I just stumbled on this too.  What pointless junk.  Whoever maintains

a list can have whatever rules he likes.  Mostly the rules are "don't be
stupid"  Then some guy complains "But I LIKE being stupid." and others seem
to agree.  Can't they all find a back channel to argue on?

Block the topic on your mail reader, and you will never see it again.  (If
your mail reader can't block topics and senders, get a different mail
reader.)



On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 10:31 AM Stuart Stevenson  wrote:


WOW - I missed it all!

My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I didn't check
emails until we returned.

Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with the
obligation to comment.




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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points



On 7/12/21 9:20 AM, Les Newell wrote:
It's pretty easy to do this in g-code. There is no need to get 
involved with HAL programming.

Here is one way I do it on my mill. I have buttons for the following:
Zero X (runs code G92X0)
Zero Y (runs code G92Y0)
Zero Z (runs code G92Z0)
X/2 (runs code G92X[#5420 / 2])
Y/2 (runs code G92X[#5421 / 2])




what does the "#5420" do/mean?


Ron



Say I want to find the centre of X. I find one X edge using a probe or 
eyeball as required then zero X. Move to the other side and hit X/2. 
X0 is now in the centre.
If you have an electronic probe this plugin works quite well 
<https://github.com/linuxcnc-probe-screen/probe-screen-ng>.


Les

On 12/07/2021 05:29, R C wrote:

Hello,


in linuxcnc,  is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between 
two points?   (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some 
coordinate (x, y)  (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the 
the middle of where you touched off and where the spindle is now?



thanks,


Ron




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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points



On 7/12/21 8:59 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

That was actually what I was looking for, a button "like that", and
wondered if I just didn't see/find it.

Yeah I can see some "convenient" functionality in that,  but being able
to go "half way" between two points, even with some iteration would
help, to get that started

(It would be really easy, math wise, once you have something like that,
to find the center of a circular hole,  or a rectangle, or anything
symmetrical, basically)

I wonder, in hal, with a plugin, if you can just move the tool/spindle,
and the DRO screen shows where it is going. For example,  for finding
the center of a circular hole, you'd only need to find the edge in 3
spots, and then just "go there".


I'd love to figure out how to write a plugin like that.


Well If you want to use an electronic probe tool to automatically stop at
contact I think the use of HAL is unavoidable since the probe input is a
part of the MOTION component of LinuxCNC. You'll also have to make fancy
G-CODE as John said with this approach since you're gonna need to deal with
digital outputs and delays to make the routine.
right, and I don't know if I want to go that route, if there's a simpler 
one.

  If you plan to externalize
the probing or if you plan to use a wiggle edge finder, you can still use
HAL to manually set the points with a button as we talked earlier.


that was orinallt the 'question' I had in mind.  Something simple with a 
few buttons, that can do some simple calculations.  But if it's already 
there, I just haven't found it yet.


I am not that experienced using LCNC/Axis,  and don't have a lot of time 
to  'play' with it  (it's that paycheck commitment thing :)  )




As Andy suggests, there are plenty of GUI(ed) ways to do this also, but I'm
so comfortable with HAL that I really don't mess around too much at GUI
level. (That's a big to do on my list)

If you have some C programming knowledge I think you will be more than alright 
making your custom component to try this.


Actually,  been programming in C for a few decades, on all kinds of 
platforms. Question, as always is,  where to get started?  Is there some 
sort of "skeleton", a frame  that shows what it should look like, with 
some  trivial functionality?


For example,  if you want to write a linux daemon, you can use a 
"skeleton", that basically show  some of that,  and with already 
existing coding skills,  you can write your own functioning daemon.


So if there is something like that for  LCNC/Axis,  I'd give that a shot.



  I myself am pretty far
from being a programmer and I could do a lot of custom components with the HAL
Component Generator  for
the machines I have here.

Any help you need please feel free to ask :)


Well,  is there a spot where I can find some examples, of that what you 
mentioned?



Ron




El lun, 12 jul 2021 a las 5:20, andy pugh () escribió:


(Nothing quoted, as this is general info)

If you have a probe, then there is a hole centre macro that ships with
LinuxCNC, "probe-hole.ngc"
That will work without any config changes.
There is a fairly complete set of probe routines included in the
distribution which are included in the QTDragon and Woodpecker QTVcp
GUIs at least.
(There is a lot going on with QTVcp, it seems, and it is passing me by)

In the venerable "Axis" interface you can spoof a fair bit of what is
being talked about here in the touch-off dialog as it will accept
mathematical expressions in the box.
So, you can type in the current DRO reading and halve it ( 1.234 / 2
). I believe that any valig G-code expression will work: (sin[60] / 2
for example)

It would be handy to be able to use axis letters in there, and feels
like an easy thing to add. I would not be at all surprised to find
that some of the newer GUIs allow exactly that.

This touch-off behaviour will be GUI-specific, and I doubt that anyone
is intimately familiar with more than a couple of GUIs.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


Hi Andy,

On 7/12/21 2:17 AM, andy pugh wrote:

(Nothing quoted, as this is general info)

If you have a probe, then there is a hole centre macro that ships with
LinuxCNC, "probe-hole.ngc"
That will work without any config changes.


Well I have a simple, mechanical one, one end cylindrical, the other 
side a cone..  I think it is called a "wobbler" ?




There is a fairly complete set of probe routines included in the
distribution which are included in the QTDragon and Woodpecker QTVcp
GUIs at least.
(There is a lot going on with QTVcp, it seems, and it is passing me by)

In the venerable "Axis" interface you can spoof a fair bit of what is
That is what I am using, up until a few weeks ago I didn't know there 
were different interfaces.

being talked about here in the touch-off dialog as it will accept
mathematical expressions in the box.
So, you can type in the current DRO reading and halve it ( 1.234 / 2
). I believe that any valig G-code expression will work: (sin[60] / 2
for example)

It would be handy to be able to use axis letters in there, and feels
like an easy thing to add. I would not be at all surprised to find
that some of the newer GUIs allow exactly that.

This touch-off behaviour will be GUI-specific, and I doubt that anyone
is intimately familiar with more than a couple of GUIs.


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points



On 7/12/21 2:03 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

The Shumatech DRO-350 just uses the same technique for circles as for squares.  
Move only in X direction to each edge to determine the mid-point.  Then do the 
same for the Y axis only.   Yes, it's 4 points instead of 3 for a circle but 
realistically is easier to understand even if it's not as clever.

I have yet to get the HOME Z and HOME XY buttons I put onto the pyvcp panel 
working.  Once I get back to that adding the probe stuff shouldn't be that 
hard.  I really don't understand why that doesn't already exist in AXIS.

Well, seems it would be convenient.  watching videos etc/  about how to 
do stuff, I ran into "so, how do I do that in LCNC?"





-Original Message-----
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 11:25 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

correct,

If you draw 2, different, triangles like that, with their corners on a
circle, their hypotenuses intersect in the center of that circle. also
the middle of these hypotenuses, of each triangle, would be the center,
hence, that is why I was interested in finding� the "half way point" of
2 points, coordinates.


on a mill it would actually be pretty easy.� touch off on a 'reasonable'
spot at the edge of a 'circle� (30-60 degree XY axis or so).

Go down/up the X-direction until you find the edge again. From there go
in the Y direction til you find the edge yet again. The center (of that
circle/hole) will be half way� between where you "touched off" and where
you are now.

for a rectangle, similarly you could center the X axis,� and next the Y
axis (and find the center of a piece of stock for example). Technically
you would have found the center of a concentric circle,� but that's the
same thing.



It would be a cool utility,� that you can find all kinds of "spots" on a
part with, I'd be interested in 'building' something like that


Ron


On 7/11/21 11:52 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Here are your 3 points.  As a math wiz you can see that if you draw a 
perpendicular line from each pair of points they all intersect in

the middle.

The third angle is the one I can create graphically and from that the length 
for the XY of the center but you might be able to explain

the math a bit better.




-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 10:31 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


On 7/11/21 11:15 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Essentially the process involves two touch off operations.  First one side 
until an LED comes on or even better the probe input

goes

active.  At that point touch off so the axis is set to 0.

Then you move in the opposite direction until the probe (or LED) goes active.  
Divide that axis value by two and move back to

that

position.  Now touch off again to set the axis to 0.  You are now in the middle.

Right,? I can do that with a calculator and some arithmetic, and jog
there manually,? but I am a mathematician,? and we're known to be lazy,?
so I am thinking about a button?? :)



It's probably possible with a fancy G-Code macro.

well,? if one can write a plugin,? it would probably be fairly easy (but
I am a CNC rookie) to do that,? if that plugin can actually move the
tool/spindle



A number of different projects I've done have been set up that way.  Find the 
center of the object which is also where I've set

the

center in the CAM software.  Rather than top left or bottom left corner of 
something that has been milled away.

right,? I don't think it is not too difficult to find the center of all
kinds of shapes (geometrically or otherwise), in a math kinda way that is.



But I'm an amateur and probably do things the hard way.  Often...

well,? hobbyist that's trying to learn some stuff here,? I am actually a
mathematician,? I can calculate things,? but I'd be a starving machinist
or CNC person/operator/machinist ...?? this weekend I created 4 proto
types of a stepper motor mount,? aka scrap.

John

Ron



-Original Message-
From: R C [ <mailto:cjv...@gmail.com> mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 10:00 PM
To:  <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


On 7/11/21 10:47 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I still have my Shumatech DRO on my mill.  I touch one side and zero the axis.  
I then move across and jog until the LED goes

on.

Then FCN 1 and the axis letter button.  At that point the axis changes to minus 
halfway between where I just touched off and

the

original 0 point.

I move to make the DRO show 0 and then touch off that axis on the AXIS screen.  
Now I have the center point between the

two

edges.  Since the LED indicator probe is 0.2" diameter the distance to the 
center doesn't matter.  Only if I a

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct


because you don't have a point. Other than the Mussolini one.

On 7/12/21 1:08 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

I don't really want to talk with a troll like you.

Communication terminated.




On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 00:10 -0600, R C wrote:

On 7/11/21 11:45 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

Nobody stops you,

exactly my point, that's your non-existent necessity



   however your project will not gain much professional
attraction.

oh really? you're that clairvoyant? "professional attraction" ??
Haha!!   progress was never accomplished by those that played by the
rules...   that's why it's called progress  aka rebellion ..  you
have
to ignore the establishment ..   the ones that want you to behave
under
their control ...  as is done/attempted with CoC's...   'nothing'
will
ever be accomplished by CoC's other than a futile attempt to
safeguard
established thinking, or cover your ass for legal reasons..   CoC's
live
in a world where nothing new is allowed.




On Sun, 2021-07-11 at 22:55 -0600, R C wrote:

No it isn't,


I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today, cause it
is
getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to stop me,
if
it
doesn't have a CoC?




On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has a
Code
of
Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.

Regards



On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net
wrote:



Valerio wrote: >>
So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support the
adoption
of a
CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C as I
proposed.
Evidently the idea of being an organized community doesn't
appeal to
LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so much
opposition,
after all it is assumed that an organized community is
able to
work
better and with more personal satisfaction for all the
participants,
and instead in this case a terrible conflict has broken
out.


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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


correct,

If you draw 2, different, triangles like that, with their corners on a 
circle, their hypotenuses intersect in the center of that circle. also 
the middle of these hypotenuses, of each triangle, would be the center, 
hence, that is why I was interested in finding  the "half way point" of 
2 points, coordinates.



on a mill it would actually be pretty easy.  touch off on a 'reasonable' 
spot at the edge of a 'circle  (30-60 degree XY axis or so).


Go down/up the X-direction until you find the edge again. From there go 
in the Y direction til you find the edge yet again. The center (of that 
circle/hole) will be half way  between where you "touched off" and where 
you are now.


for a rectangle, similarly you could center the X axis,  and next the Y 
axis (and find the center of a piece of stock for example). Technically 
you would have found the center of a concentric circle,  but that's the 
same thing.




It would be a cool utility,  that you can find all kinds of "spots" on a 
part with, I'd be interested in 'building' something like that



Ron


On 7/11/21 11:52 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Here are your 3 points.  As a math wiz you can see that if you draw a 
perpendicular line from each pair of points they all intersect in the middle.
  
The third angle is the one I can create graphically and from that the length for the XY of the center but you might be able to explain the math a bit better.
  

  

-----Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 10:31 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


On 7/11/21 11:15 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Essentially the process involves two touch off operations.  First one side 
until an LED comes on or even better the probe input goes

active.  At that point touch off so the axis is set to 0.

Then you move in the opposite direction until the probe (or LED) goes active.  
Divide that axis value by two and move back to that

position.  Now touch off again to set the axis to 0.  You are now in the middle.

Right,� I can do that with a calculator and some arithmetic, and jog
there manually,� but I am a mathematician,� and we're known to be lazy,�
so I am thinking about a button�� :)



It's probably possible with a fancy G-Code macro.

well,� if one can write a plugin,� it would probably be fairly easy (but
I am a CNC rookie) to do that,� if that plugin can actually move the
tool/spindle



A number of different projects I've done have been set up that way.  Find the 
center of the object which is also where I've set the

center in the CAM software.  Rather than top left or bottom left corner of 
something that has been milled away.

right,� I don't think it is not too difficult to find the center of all
kinds of shapes (geometrically or otherwise), in a math kinda way that is.



But I'm an amateur and probably do things the hard way.  Often...

well,� hobbyist that's trying to learn some stuff here,� I am actually a
mathematician,� I can calculate things,� but I'd be a starving machinist
or CNC person/operator/machinist ...�� this weekend I created 4 proto
types of a stepper motor mount,� aka scrap.

John

Ron



-----Original Message-
From: R C [ <mailto:cjv...@gmail.com> mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 10:00 PM
To:  <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


On 7/11/21 10:47 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I still have my Shumatech DRO on my mill.  I touch one side and zero the axis.  
I then move across and jog until the LED goes on.

Then FCN 1 and the axis letter button.  At that point the axis changes to minus 
halfway between where I just touched off and the
original 0 point.

I move to make the DRO show 0 and then touch off that axis on the AXIS screen.  
Now I have the center point between the two

edges.  Since the LED indicator probe is 0.2" diameter the distance to the 
center doesn't matter.  Only if I am trying to find the

edge

and the Shumatech can be told the diameter of the probe.

Certainly there must be an easy way to do this with LCNC?  The Shumatech 
software has been around for at least 13 years.

Oops,?? I didn't see this last line...?? I think so,??? either some
added functionality in the DRO? (that is where I was looking around),?
or else a plugin.?? it's probably not that hard,? if I knew how to write
a plugin for LCNC



John



-Original Message-
From: R C [ <mailto:cjv...@gmail.com> mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 9:29 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list
Subject: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

Hello,


in linuxcnc,? is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between two
points??? (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some
coordinate (x, y)? (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the the
middle of where you touc

Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points



On 7/11/21 11:15 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Essentially the process involves two touch off operations.  First one side 
until an LED comes on or even better the probe input goes active.  At that 
point touch off so the axis is set to 0.

Then you move in the opposite direction until the probe (or LED) goes active.  
Divide that axis value by two and move back to that position.  Now touch off 
again to set the axis to 0.  You are now in the middle.


Right,  I can do that with a calculator and some arithmetic, and jog 
there manually,  but I am a mathematician,  and we're known to be lazy,  
so I am thinking about a button   :)





It's probably possible with a fancy G-Code macro.


well,  if one can write a plugin,  it would probably be fairly easy (but 
I am a CNC rookie) to do that,  if that plugin can actually move the 
tool/spindle





A number of different projects I've done have been set up that way.  Find the 
center of the object which is also where I've set the center in the CAM 
software.  Rather than top left or bottom left corner of something that has 
been milled away.


right,  I don't think it is not too difficult to find the center of all 
kinds of shapes (geometrically or otherwise), in a math kinda way that is.





But I'm an amateur and probably do things the hard way.  Often...
well,  hobbyist that's trying to learn some stuff here,  I am actually a 
mathematician,  I can calculate things,  but I'd be a starving machinist 
or CNC person/operator/machinist ...   this weekend I created 4 proto 
types of a stepper motor mount,  aka scrap.


John


Ron





-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 10:00 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


On 7/11/21 10:47 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I still have my Shumatech DRO on my mill.  I touch one side and zero the axis.  
I then move across and jog until the LED goes on.

Then FCN 1 and the axis letter button.  At that point the axis changes to minus 
halfway between where I just touched off and the
original 0 point.

I move to make the DRO show 0 and then touch off that axis on the AXIS screen.  
Now I have the center point between the two

edges.  Since the LED indicator probe is 0.2" diameter the distance to the 
center doesn't matter.  Only if I am trying to find the edge
and the Shumatech can be told the diameter of the probe.

Certainly there must be an easy way to do this with LCNC?  The Shumatech 
software has been around for at least 13 years.


Oops,�� I didn't see this last line...�� I think so,��� either some
added functionality in the DRO� (that is where I was looking around),�
or else a plugin.�� it's probably not that hard,� if I knew how to write
a plugin for LCNC



John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 9:29 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list
Subject: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

Hello,


in linuxcnc,? is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between two
points??? (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some
coordinate (x, y)? (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the the
middle of where you touched off and where the spindle is now?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

I have been watching a lot of CNC and machining videos over the past 
year and a half too...  (which makes me wonder why I still turn so much 
stock into scrap.. :)  )


On 7/11/21 11:15 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I've been watching the Tormach Path Pilot videos and there's a lot of 
information in the LCNC side of things for setting tool height etc.  There are 
a number of G-Code macros that can find edges.

John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 9:58 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

Hi John,


I have seen videos about these electronic "add on" DROs that is actually
why I am asking.�� It would be incredibly helpful finding the center of
circles (aka holes), or squares, the center of stock etc etc.


That's why I wondered if there is something like that in linuxcnc.��
(Maybe I should start looking into how to build plugins for linuxcnc...� )

thanks,

Ron


On 7/11/21 10:47 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I still have my Shumatech DRO on my mill.  I touch one side and zero the axis.  
I then move across and jog until the LED goes on.

Then FCN 1 and the axis letter button.  At that point the axis changes to minus 
halfway between where I just touched off and the
original 0 point.

I move to make the DRO show 0 and then touch off that axis on the AXIS screen.  
Now I have the center point between the two

edges.  Since the LED indicator probe is 0.2" diameter the distance to the 
center doesn't matter.  Only if I am trying to find the edge
and the Shumatech can be told the diameter of the probe.

Certainly there must be an easy way to do this with LCNC?  The Shumatech 
software has been around for at least 13 years.

John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 9:29 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list
Subject: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

Hello,


in linuxcnc,? is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between two
points??? (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some
coordinate (x, y)? (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the the
middle of where you touched off and where the spindle is now?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


Hi Leonardo,

That was actually what I was looking for, a button "like that", and 
wondered if I just didn't see/find it.


Yeah I can see some "convenient" functionality in that,  but being able 
to go "half way" between two points, even with some iteration would 
help, to get that started


(It would be really easy, math wise, once you have something like that, 
to find the center of a circular hole,  or a rectangle, or anything 
symmetrical, basically)


I wonder, in hal, with a plugin, if you can just move the tool/spindle, 
and the DRO screen shows where it is going. For example,  for finding 
the center of a circular hole, you'd only need to find the edge in 3 
spots, and then just "go there".



I'd love to figure out how to write a plugin like that.


Ron




On 7/11/21 11:08 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

Hi Ron,

I guess you could do it with a custom component in HAL. You can link a
physical button to set the points and then compute the center point. You
should need a reset button and some other functionalities too I guess, but
I think it's perfectly doable. Also you could show the output with pyvcp so
you can replicate what a DRO does. It's not that easy but neither that hard
I guess.

El lun, 12 jul 2021 a las 2:02, R C () escribió:


On 7/11/21 10:47 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I still have my Shumatech DRO on my mill.  I touch one side and zero the

axis.  I then move across and jog until the LED goes on. Then FCN 1 and the
axis letter button.  At that point the axis changes to minus halfway
between where I just touched off and the original 0 point.

I move to make the DRO show 0 and then touch off that axis on the AXIS

screen.  Now I have the center point between the two edges.  Since the LED
indicator probe is 0.2" diameter the distance to the center doesn't
matter.  Only if I am trying to find the edge and the Shumatech can be told
the diameter of the probe.

Certainly there must be an easy way to do this with LCNC?  The Shumatech

software has been around for at least 13 years.


Oops,   I didn't see this last line...   I think so,either some
added functionality in the DRO  (that is where I was looking around),
or else a plugin.   it's probably not that hard,  if I knew how to write
a plugin for LCNC



John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 9:29 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list
Subject: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

Hello,


in linuxcnc,� is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between two
points?�� (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some
coordinate (x, y)� (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the the
middle of where you touched off and where the spindle is now?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points



On 7/11/21 10:47 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I still have my Shumatech DRO on my mill.  I touch one side and zero the axis.  
I then move across and jog until the LED goes on. Then FCN 1 and the axis 
letter button.  At that point the axis changes to minus halfway between where I 
just touched off and the original 0 point.

I move to make the DRO show 0 and then touch off that axis on the AXIS screen.  Now 
I have the center point between the two edges.  Since the LED indicator probe is 
0.2" diameter the distance to the center doesn't matter.  Only if I am trying 
to find the edge and the Shumatech can be told the diameter of the probe.

Certainly there must be an easy way to do this with LCNC?  The Shumatech 
software has been around for at least 13 years.



Oops,   I didn't see this last line...   I think so,    either some 
added functionality in the DRO  (that is where I was looking around),  
or else a plugin.   it's probably not that hard,  if I knew how to write 
a plugin for LCNC




John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 9:29 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list
Subject: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

Hello,


in linuxcnc,� is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between two
points?�� (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some
coordinate (x, y)� (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the the
middle of where you touched off and where the spindle is now?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


Hi John,


I have seen videos about these electronic "add on" DROs that is actually 
why I am asking.   It would be incredibly helpful finding the center of 
circles (aka holes), or squares, the center of stock etc etc.



That's why I wondered if there is something like that in linuxcnc.   
(Maybe I should start looking into how to build plugins for linuxcnc...  )


thanks,

Ron


On 7/11/21 10:47 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I still have my Shumatech DRO on my mill.  I touch one side and zero the axis.  
I then move across and jog until the LED goes on. Then FCN 1 and the axis 
letter button.  At that point the axis changes to minus halfway between where I 
just touched off and the original 0 point.

I move to make the DRO show 0 and then touch off that axis on the AXIS screen.  Now 
I have the center point between the two edges.  Since the LED indicator probe is 
0.2" diameter the distance to the center doesn't matter.  Only if I am trying 
to find the edge and the Shumatech can be told the diameter of the probe.

Certainly there must be an easy way to do this with LCNC?  The Shumatech 
software has been around for at least 13 years.

John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-11-21 9:29 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list
Subject: [Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points

Hello,


in linuxcnc,� is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between two
points?�� (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some
coordinate (x, y)� (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the the
middle of where you touched off and where the spindle is now?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct


No it isn't,


I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today, cause it is 
getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to stop me, if it 
doesn't have a CoC?





On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has a Code of
Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.

Regards



On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net wrote:
  


Valerio wrote: >>
  So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support the adoption of a
  CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C as I proposed.
  Evidently the idea of being an organized community doesn't appeal to
  LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so much opposition,
  after all it is assumed that an organized community is able to work
  better and with more personal satisfaction for all the participants,
  and instead in this case a terrible conflict has broken out.


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[Emc-users] 'automatically' go halfway between 2 points


Hello,


in linuxcnc,  is there an easy/automated way to get halfway between two 
points?   (Fort example, you'd touch off somewhere, move to some 
coordinate (x, y)  (or even (x, y, z)) and go inbetween right to the the 
middle of where you touched off and where the spindle is now?



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread R C



On 6/30/21 7:58 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44 AM Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:


On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:


We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
code
of conduct for this list.

  Mark

In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.

Regards


That's may all be well and good for your organization.  That doesn't mean
it translates easily or well to other organizations like this one.  This


European countries, mostly  dem/lib with social tendencies/policies have 
a lot of labor protection laws and labor unions that have a lot of 
leverage. Companies, organizations, negotiated CoC-s to push back on 
that leverage.


In the US, a lot of states states being "work at will", they don't need 
them because you can be terminated for no reason, pretty much. But hey, 
it's a cool liberal/socialist thing, so let's do it here too, even if we 
don't need it, it's management porn that blew over from Europe.



Also, what is the point of having rules if you there is no way to 
enforce them?  You can have a CoC here,  and throw someone out if you 
don't like what they have to say. but nothing keeps that user from 
registering with another account.


Besides that, people here just talk/chat, how much leverage/control do 
you actually want to add by writing up a CoC, that you already don't have?



Ron




group tends to be more oriented to machining, machine control and
programming.  In all the years I've been on this list, I've never seen
anyone publicly harass anyone, though I may have missed a post or two over
those years that did contain something like that.  Pretty much every post I
see on this list is either someone asking a question or requesting help,
and a whole lot of people jumping in to try and fix the problem or help the
OP work their way through the issue.  This group seems to be based on
giving and receiving help for all the issues and problems that pop up.

Again the original question I asked needs to be answered.  Why is it really
necessary to institute a Code of Conduct on a group that's already well
behaved?  Legal Reasons?  Someone feels that we need a CoC just because?
What is the impetus for having this imposed?  And why does the CoC that's
been written have to include all the political nonsense?

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 5:17 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 17:07 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 4:54 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

Could you please try to avoid reading too literally and instead try
to
understand the broad sense of what I write?

I can try, but I am not good at reading minds, it's not my problem
you
didn't say what you meant.


I said exactly what I meant, but for some (unknow to me) reason you
don't interpret it as I do:

That's because your comparison is/was wrong.

I presume that good organization is
necessary to avoid the chaos that can sometimes arise in human
interactions.


No it isn't, chaos arises because of people disagreeing, hence what you 
call good organization isn't necessarily interpreted as good by others 
and creates chaos.




  The fact that LinuxCNC succeeded without organization is
pure luck in my opinion, in general human communities organize
themselves to avoid being overwhelmed by chaos and to facilitate the
resolution of internal conflicts.


No I think they succeeded, because these "guys" doing this are very good 
at what they are doing, are knowledgeable, and like doing this for 
others to enjoy this software (which I definitely do).




Also, I am done with this conversation..   I go with the guy with the 
"be kind sign" email,  I think that is what we should have as a CoC (and 
I didn't see inclusive etc etc in the definition of 'kind')



over and out.





Also, I changed my mind  ..

hey all, can we still have that CoC? with that one rule in it that
said
something about not telling others what to do, or something like
that.



On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:39 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 4:19 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:29 -0500, Bari wrote:

On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is
still
no
why...
let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a
controlling
vague one.

The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even
nature
and
animal groups have their survival rules.

It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive
group.

I thought that LCNC is an open source software project. What
is
this
dramatic talk of animal survival?

as humans we are evoluted animals and human collectivity
follows
the
same survival rules. That is only for comparison.

those are not rules, those are laws deducted from what is
observed,
same/similar to  physical laws (like the law of gravity).

Animals don't have rules on how to behave, there might be some
very
primal ones based on picking order, power.

for example, a coyote doesn't give a damn that there is a rule
not
to
attack poodles, the only reason for it not to attack the poodle
is if
it
were more dangerous for the coyote then for the poodle.

Evolution does have NOTHING to do with rules, it is a pattern, "a
scientific law" that  is assumed and proven because of
observations.


Also, you cannot compare something, with something else that is
false
or
doesn't make sense,  that is nonsense, a moot point in any
argument.



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 4:54 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

Could you please try to avoid reading too literally and instead try to
understand the broad sense of what I write?


I can try, but I am not good at reading minds, it's not my problem you 
didn't say what you meant.



Also, I changed my mind  ..

hey all, can we still have that CoC? with that one rule in it that said 
something about not telling others what to do, or something like that.





On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:39 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 4:19 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:29 -0500, Bari wrote:

On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is still
no
why...
let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a
controlling
vague one.

The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even
nature
and
animal groups have their survival rules.

It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive
group.

I thought that LCNC is an open source software project. What is
this
dramatic talk of animal survival?

as humans we are evoluted animals and human collectivity follows
the
same survival rules. That is only for comparison.

those are not rules, those are laws deducted from what is observed,
same/similar to  physical laws (like the law of gravity).

Animals don't have rules on how to behave, there might be some very
primal ones based on picking order, power.

for example, a coyote doesn't give a damn that there is a rule not
to
attack poodles, the only reason for it not to attack the poodle is if
it
were more dangerous for the coyote then for the poodle.

Evolution does have NOTHING to do with rules, it is a pattern, "a
scientific law" that  is assumed and proven because of observations.


Also, you cannot compare something, with something else that is false
or
doesn't make sense,  that is nonsense, a moot point in any argument.




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 4:28 PM, David Bagby wrote:


On 6/29/2021, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

the
vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC which
is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.


I've been monitoring this list since about 2002. I mostly just read 
and stay informed as best I can.  I've been trying to stay out of this 
topic, but I just can't - it seems to me that an obvious "management 
error" has been made.


I won't claim to know much about a majority of open source projects, 
but I'll assume the above quoted statement is true.


The second part of the statement does a good job of describing why 
there is controversy over, and discussion of the sudden appearance of 
a CoC.


As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed and 
accepted by community members".  It was just simply announced as a 
fait accomli.


Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus re its 
contents within the community, or that there appears to be little to 
zero by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people 
see question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.


This does raise the question of "imposed by whom"?   I am unaware of 
any current, formally functioning LCNC management organization which 
the community members would be predisposed to accept this from. So I'm 
not surprised that the general reaction is differing levels of WTF.


In my humble opinion, whoever (be that one or more people) worked in 
the background to give LCNC a new CoC and then simply announced has 
rather grossly overstepped their (presumed) authority.


Dave


well, the ones that are "well organized",  like Centos and some other 
large opensource projects for example, are way more organized,  with a 
corporate like structure, large amounts of money/grants etc. (look at 
how big RedHat is/was) but somehow always manage to get themselves in 
trouble, financially, legally etc.


linux cnc, I believe formerly emc2 (was it??) has been around for a long 
time, maybe that is why?






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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 4:19 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:29 -0500, Bari wrote:

On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is still no
why...
let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a controlling
vague one.

The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even nature
and
animal groups have their survival rules.

It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive group.

I thought that LCNC is an open source software project. What is this
dramatic talk of animal survival?

as humans we are evoluted animals and human collectivity follows the
same survival rules. That is only for comparison.


those are not rules, those are laws deducted from what is observed,  
same/similar to  physical laws (like the law of gravity).


Animals don't have rules on how to behave, there might be some very 
primal ones based on picking order, power.


for example, a coyote doesn't give a damn that there is a rule not to 
attack poodles, the only reason for it not to attack the poodle is if it 
were more dangerous for the coyote then for the poodle.


Evolution does have NOTHING to do with rules, it is a pattern, "a 
scientific law" that  is assumed and proven because of observations.



Also, you cannot compare something, with something else that is false or 
doesn't make sense,  that is nonsense, a moot point in any argument.







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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 4:01 PM, andy pugh wrote:

There seems to be a serious misunderstanding developing here about how
LinuxCNC is organised.

It isn't.

Really not at all.

All LinuxCNC has is a web page, a github, a buildbot, a code-base and
a bunch of contributors.

Some contributors have admin rights on the web server, and some have
push rights on the github. (I have both of these things) But that
doesn't make me part of "The management" or mean that I have some
agenda.
And the same is true of Jeff. He is a supremely valuable contributor
to the LinuxCNC code-base (I think that he has written more lines of
code than almost any other contributor[1])  but I very much doubt that
he has any particular political agenda to push.
(If I had to guess, and it would be a guess, because we haven't
discussed it,  it would be that Jeff is worried about trouble looming
if we don't have a CoC).


Well,  the lists are on here (sourceforge),  and the 'stuff' is on 
github (good idea actually).


I assume that sourceforge wants compliance, with how they are organized. 
The list being 'private' moderated/administered, you could just throw 
anyone off who's posts you don't like, especially of course, when 
illegal etc.


I don't think the real trouble is in having a CoC or not. Companies etc 
tend to have one as "a stick behind the door" more for "personnel 
management" then anything else. Except for some name guessing you don't 
know if anyone is male/female, where from etc etc. and it doesn't look 
like anyone was ever denied on here for things that typically could get 
you in trouble, simple because you don't know and don't care other then 
someone being interested in hooking up a stepper motor, or how to thread 
a bolt. I don't know how admins deal with "deleting user accounts", but 
from what I see on the list, that doesn't seem to happen often (or at 
least I don't have the impression it does.)



On social media, like FB etc,  there are people going at each others 
throats about differences of opinion on what drive through lane to use 
at McD (yeah I am not kidding)  threaten each other over it too.  
Doesn't look like you have anything similar here about CNC stuff. (this 
CoC thing is probably one of the most "flared up" threads I have ever 
seen.)  I am not a legal person, but it doesn't look like there's much 
to worry about,  especially since  the repos,  mailing lists etc seem 
separate. Besides, I think,  if you'd have a CoC, you might actually  
have something that people actually CAN complain about, about it not 
being inclusive enough, because you forgot to mention some group, OR it 
being derogatory, illegal etc etc.  Maybe not being too organized, as 
you mentioned, is a good thing, then there's not much to complain about 
either.  Now it looks like a bunch of people maintaining something "for 
fun", some more that volunterely contribute,  and then there this list 
where anyone can talk/ask/chat about it.



if you get too organized, you might just end up somewhere, where no one 
wants to be.



but that's just my 2 cts


Ron





Don't go imagining that there are Machiavellian intrigues going on in
back-channels. We are not that organised.

Nobody is in charge, there is no committee, there is no board of
directors. Things only get done if one person decides that something
should be done, and then does it.

[1] 
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/graphs/contributors?from=2003-10-05=2021-06-29=a




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct




On 6/29/21 4:00 PM, Bari wrote:
I'm not singling anyone out. I find these CoC's to be mostly 
hypocritical. Especially by large corporations. Codes of ethics for 
subordinates, ruthless and lawless behavior by those at the head, 
e.g., just don't get caught. But hypocrisy seems to be in vogue along 
with CoC's.



My experience too, and I work for a very large 'institution', once you 
let that happen to you, you're pretty much done.




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 3:37 PM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 22:53:12 +0200
  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 14:32 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 2:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
respect
to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
provided
that you act as the CoC says.

Regards


and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
you
can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
rules
for
what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
countries
where you can happily follow those rules.

This is what I think:

The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
to
act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
this
kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
aggregation and mutual respect.

right, most normal/decent people know that is expected behavior, so
it
is pointless to re-iterate, and mosyly turns into something
manipulative.


I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
the
vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
which
is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.

Because it is pointless.  There still has not been given an urgent
reason for doing this kinda left-ish thing.


I make a point of that all the time, also at work, where they have
several of these things.


Reason?  Oh an upper management person  once said it was needed
"because
everyone deserves to be respected, and by the end of the day can go
home
being happy they accomplished something"

I questioned him "Why?"  ..  except for a lot of "uh"-s no real
answer.
Of course not,  because there are no reasons to do that..  it's
management porn.



The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.

why?  seriously, make a pressing point of  why.



Regards


Ron


I cannot comment on what you do at work. However this is how things
work in a human society, we need to state very clearly what are the
leadership actions to do in case controvercies need to be resolved, and
state what is expected behavior and unacceptable behavior from
community members, so that everybody knows that staying in the
community involves some kind of mental and behavioral engagement. This
is necessary to avoid irrimediable conflicts that can lead to
destruction of the community.

I'm happy to see that LinuxCNC community has survived so long without a
CoC. That said every community needs a CoC mostly as an assurance to
external people that they can join the community without fear.

Sorry, but this total bs.

I would suggest that all people voting for CoC make a mailinglist 
"emc-users-...@lists.sourceforge.net" or better 
"coc-ems-us...@lists.sourceforge.net" 'cause  CoC is more important than LinuxCNC and 
users (who need users when we are the management?)

Nik



giving in to that, is 'their' first step.

I think that, and this thread,  should go to the tweet community..  and 
leave this alone.








Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 3:29 PM, Bari wrote:

On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is still no
why...
let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a controlling
vague one.

The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even nature and
animal groups have their survival rules.

It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive group.
I thought that LCNC is an open source software project. What is this 
dramatic talk of animal survival?



liberal arts debate strategy (stating something as an undeniably fact 
(even if wrong or unrelated), and then associate it or make it parallel 
to their debate topic to make an argument. )






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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 3:07 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 15:45 -0500, Bari wrote:

On 6/29/21 3:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
respect
to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
provided
that you act as the CoC says.

Regards


and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
you
can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
rules
for
what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
countries
where you can happily follow those rules.

This is what I think:

The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
to
act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
this
kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
aggregation and mutual respect.

I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
the
vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
which
is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.

The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.

Regards


The problem is with what is perceived as acceptable and by whom.
Different people perceive things differently based on their
background,
experiences, education, parenting, intelligence, age, environment,
country they live in, etc. etc.

Another thing to consider is what is LinuxCNC? What is the board of
directors? is this a democracy or a dictatorship or something else?


It is incredible that after so many years those questions are still
open. They should have been resolved many years ago, when the community
was born.


Who
decides which persons that this applies to? Users, persons in IRC,
developers that wish to have their code included in the main
distribution, forum posters, etc who is this for and what is the
real
reason for this?

It is a slippery slope.

Usually the leadership is voted and elected by members, and the CoC
should be applied to *everything* involving the community, so Users,
persons in IRC, developers that wish to have their code included in the
main distribution, forum posters, visitors, external experts, and this
is not an exhaustive list.


You made a spelling mistake,  it is not spelled "leadership",  it 
typically is spelled "corrupt politicians"  or "business major with a 
bloated ego"



If it was leadership,  you'd go do something ..  and the rest would be 
following behind you,  which doesn't seem to be the case.










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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 2:57 PM, Les Newell wrote:
Valerio, I agree completely. I also think we should give Jeff a break 
here. LinuxCNC is a loosely organized group and things only really get 
done when someone sees a problem and tries to fix it. Many open source 
projects have a CoC so Jeff put something together, trying to help. He 
now pretty much gets accused of being a dictator.  I'm sure that is 
far from his intention.



The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.


Historically when someone comes up with a new feature they announce it 
on the list, there is a bit of discussion about it and in most cases 
it gets added to the source, possibly with some modification. No name 
calling or political posturing. That is probably closer to how Jeff 
expected this to go.



Are you trying to organize this thing,  take over and sell it or so?




Les


On 29/06/2021 21:21, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

This is what I think:

The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is to
act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do this
kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
aggregation and mutual respect.

I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC, the
vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC which
is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.

The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct


yup..  there you go


looks like  that CoC is just a control mechanism,  let's see a year or 
so after this,  this list will be done.




who wants to start a new one?





On 6/29/21 2:59 PM, Bari wrote:

I forgot to include this link to a video in my last post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moWe3rk7LzQ

This was not satire.



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 2:53 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 14:32 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 2:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
respect
to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
provided
that you act as the CoC says.

Regards


and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
you
can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
rules
for
what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
countries
where you can happily follow those rules.

This is what I think:

The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
to
act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
this
kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
aggregation and mutual respect.

right, most normal/decent people know that is expected behavior, so
it
is pointless to re-iterate, and mosyly turns into something
manipulative.


I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
the
vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
which
is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.

Because it is pointless.  There still has not been given an urgent
reason for doing this kinda left-ish thing.


I make a point of that all the time, also at work, where they have
several of these things.


Reason?  Oh an upper management person  once said it was needed
"because
everyone deserves to be respected, and by the end of the day can go
home
being happy they accomplished something"

I questioned him "Why?"  ..  except for a lot of "uh"-s no real
answer.
Of course not,  because there are no reasons to do that..  it's
management porn.



The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.

why?  seriously, make a pressing point of  why.



Regards


Ron


I cannot comment on what you do at work. However this is how things
work in a human society, we need to state very clearly what are the
leadership actions to do in case controvercies need to be resolved, and
state what is expected behavior and unacceptable behavior from
community members, so that everybody knows that staying in the
community involves some kind of mental and behavioral engagement. This
is necessary to avoid irrimediable conflicts that can lead to
destruction of the community.

I'm happy to see that LinuxCNC community has survived so long without a
CoC. That said every community needs a CoC mostly as an assurance to
external people that they can join the community without fear.


You still didn't say why,  except for a bunch of blabla leadership,  
sounds like it has nothing to do  with neither linux, nor CNC.



again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is still no why...   
let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a controlling vague one.





Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 2:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
respect
to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will provided
that you act as the CoC says.

Regards


and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
you
can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating rules
for
what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
countries
where you can happily follow those rules.


This is what I think:

The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is to
act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do this
kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
aggregation and mutual respect.


right, most normal/decent people know that is expected behavior, so it 
is pointless to re-iterate, and mosyly turns into something manipulative.




I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC, the
vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC which
is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.


Because it is pointless.  There still has not been given an urgent 
reason for doing this kinda left-ish thing.



I make a point of that all the time, also at work, where they have 
several of these things.



Reason?  Oh an upper management person  once said it was needed "because 
everyone deserves to be respected, and by the end of the day can go home 
being happy they accomplished something"


I questioned him "Why?"  ..  except for a lot of "uh"-s no real answer.  
Of course not,  because there are no reasons to do that..  it's 
management porn.





The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.


why?  seriously, make a pressing point of  why.




Regards


Ron





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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 12:57 PM, andy pugh wrote:

Yes, I read that, and is saddened me. But in more than just the
obvious way, because that means that some of us have been acting in a
way that upset Kirk, but if you asked us I would bet that not one of
us would think that we had.
I am not sure that a CoC is any help there, until Kirk said what he
said I had always considered this mailing list to be friendly, and
that I was already behaving according to the CoC.

I totally agree there, for one   IF it was on the list, we all would 
have seen something ...  aaand someone might have said something about  
said toxic remarks. It is unlikely that it was "out of band", but 
possible it was sent directly. BUT In the latter case, the risk the 
toxic person is running is that it would be posted on the list anyway 
(which would expose it)  or  it would be forwarded to an admin/moderator.



Also,  if someone has something to complain about, speak up and say what 
it is no one else has noticed.  Also,  there is no way a CoC is going to 
prevent people from experiencing something as toxic or prevent them from 
getting their feelings hurt.


(and there's no way you can make everyone happy, the world simply 
doesn't work that way, there will always be people that are unhappy, 
complain, or both)



So yeah,  I totally agree with what you said.



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with respect
to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will provided
that you act as the CoC says.

Regards

and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way you 
can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating rules for  
what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are countries 
where you can happily follow those rules.






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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 10:39 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 16:45, Mark Wendt  wrote:

Have there been any instances of any discrimination, bullying or other
problems with people having issue with anyone of any sort on this list,
forum, wiki or IRC?

It's very hard to say. I see about half a dozen new subscribers every
day. About 20% go on to post a single question to the forum, and then
disappear. I like to think that in general that is because they got
the help they wanted (and no more :-) and saw no reason to stick
around. But it is possible that they felt unwelcome and left.



I think many do that on lists like that ask a question they can't find 
an answer to, then either leave because it wasn't a tech answer they 
were looking for, or just hang around, read but not post.


It would be unusual I think, this list is not at all like 
"stackoverflow" for example,  where a post first gets editted, and then 
people start questioning you why you asked in the first place.


(actually I have done that, in many other lists, just joing to ask a 
question or two)


Ron



The IRC serves a social function for many people, but the forum really
is just focussed on the topic at hand.




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 9:40 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:

Have there been any instances of any discrimination, bullying or other
problems with people having issue with anyone of any sort on this list,
forum, wiki or IRC?


Nope,  not that I can remember, not as long as I have been here (which 
started years ago, with different account)




What forced this issue to the forefront all of a sudden?
the enlightened woke left ones, loosing territory,  or those that can't 
live without them for some reason. Consider it a last ditch effort 
before they become useless.


All the CoC needed to say was said in the first 31 words.

"In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
contributors and leaders pledge to making participation in our project and
our community a harassment-free experience for everyone."


yeah and that is not even a "Code of Conduct" that people need to be 
reminded of.



And then, for example,  what are you going to do with this/these?:

- let's assume a known child molester, rapist, is on here..

- let's assume,  you find out some terrorist, or adversary is on here, 
trying to figure out how to do/build something, or figure out technology.



are you (I mean the list, not 'you' you) still going to be that inviting 
and "inclusive" or remove them?  that's why a CoC doesn't make sense.




Adding all the rest of the nonsense is telling people what and how to think.


exactly., thanks



Mark



Ron





On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 11:28 AM Sebastian Kuzminsky <
seb.kuzmin...@gmail.com> wrote:


The Code of Conduct is not about controlling anyone or shoving anything
down anyone's throats.  It's about defining inclusive and welcoming
community standards for peaceful cooperation and coexistence.

It's useful to do this explicitly and openly, because that creates a
shared standard of communication and interaction that we can all see and
agree on.

Nothing in the Code of Conduct should be surprising to anyone here - it
really is all common sense "don't be a jerk" type stuff.

If it offends you or you think it's "woke babble" that it explicitly
mentions don't be a jerk to trans people, or don't be a jerk to people
based on their race or religion or whatever, then please take this as a
request to leave, and our community will be better off without you.

Please, let's just all be polite to the people we share this community
with, it's not hard.  Let's keep focussing on our shared interest in
machining and open source fabrication software, and I look forward to
collaborating with you all for many years to come.

--
Sebastian Kuzminsky


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 9:26 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
The Code of Conduct is not about controlling anyone or shoving 
anything down anyone's throats.


yes it is


It's about defining inclusive and welcoming community standards for 
peaceful cooperation and coexistence.
that was already the case, so "defining" does not make any sense, hence 
my previous statement.


It's useful to do this explicitly and openly, because that creates a 
shared standard of communication and interaction that we can all see 
and agree on.


Nothing in the Code of Conduct should be surprising to anyone here - 
it really is all common sense "don't be a jerk" type stuff.


No it isn't useful, and if it's common sense here already, then why do 
you need it?





If it offends you or you think it's "woke babble" that it explicitly 
mentions don't be a jerk to trans people, or don't be a jerk to people 
based on their race or religion or whatever, then please take this as 
a request to leave, and our community will be better off without you.


No it's not offending,  I am not a jerk to people in general (neither 
are the majority of subscribers here), except, I am, to jerks and dumb 
people etc., that are trying to tell people what they can and cannot do, 
it is controlling, obsessive compulsive, ridiculous, not offensive.





Please, let's just all be polite to the people we share this community 
with, it's not hard.  Let's keep focussing on our shared interest in 
machining and open source fabrication software, and I look forward to 
collaborating with you all for many years to come.



Yeah let's do that,  let's focus at what we all like to do as a hobby 
and work,  and take that social CoC experiment to another appropriate 
group/list, like a social studies, 'whomever" issues interest group. one 
or so, we don't need it here, because here (most) have common sense, as 
you stated earlier.




Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

Hi Robert,

oh I totally agree with you. The reason why STEM people (Science, Tech,
Enineering, Math) have dealt with "that crap" for so long is because
they don't tend to "socialize" and therefor not organize. Most of us
are more like, let me do what I like to do, my job, solve problems, and
ignore the woke liberal artsy stuff. That used to work fine, but now
there are just too d*mn many of the woke now and they won't stop,
because they are not told to stop.

I think that is changing, look at this thread for example, this thread
explosion would not have happened 2 years ago.) The general public, and
the majority of them are moderate, whatever side you look at, and are
fed up with the nonsense, Those are mostly the productive members of
society anyway and I think that will prevail.

Ron

On 6/29/21 9:07 AM, Robert Murphy wrote:

RC that’s the point I was trying to make, but now it would seem a complete lack
of eloquence and a whole lot of a bull in a china shop.

And Les with regards to the Yaniv character, how would you refer to an
individual that makes appointments with businesses that deal with “feminine
hair issues” then proceeds to drag them through the courts because they refused
to wax his male genitalia?
The same person was also brought up on illegal weapons charges, and complaints
have been made regarding grooming of underage girls. Not to mention an assault
charge, where the assault was caught on camera. All but the grooming have been
dealt with by the caught. Also Yaniv tried to organise a “topless” swimming
event where teen girls were encouraged not to bring parents or guardians. These
all for public record. Adding to that there was crowd funding campaign for the
entry fee for a beauty contest.
Yes I think those actions have proved Yaniv to be a social pest.
As for the instigator of the CofC maybe a better wording would have been his
actions have been those of a bully and have not been positive.

Composed with my Crayons

On 30 Jun 2021, at 00:42, R C wrote:

On 6/29/21 8:25 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 15:18, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

+1 CoC guarantees nontechnical tentacles grab hold on technical projects. Nobody needs
those "management" types.

I don't see any real risk of that happening to LinuxCNC. Apart from
anything else I doubt that anyone non-technical has any interest in
the project. (This is not the case for a desktop OS, or a graphics
package, for example)

Might not be about the technical nature/interest, it might just be that woke "everyone has to
do what we say" policy. It's "cancel culture", if you don't behave like we demand,
you're going to be banned. (or not hosted there anymore) Doesn't matter if it is highly technical
or not.

(look at what is happening at the "woke math" in the K-12 school system, which
is spreading to sciences too)

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 8:25 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 15:18, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp  wrote:


+1 CoC guarantees nontechnical tentacles grab hold on technical projects. Nobody needs 
those "management" types.

I don't see any real risk of that happening to LinuxCNC. Apart from
anything else I doubt that anyone non-technical has any interest in
the project. (This is not the case for a desktop OS, or a graphics
package, for example)

Might not be about the technical nature/interest,  it might just be that 
woke "everyone has to do what we say" policy. It's "cancel culture",  if 
you don't behave like we demand, you're going to be banned. (or not 
hosted  there anymore) Doesn't matter if it is highly technical or not.


(look at what is happening at the "woke math" in the K-12 school system, 
which is spreading to sciences too)






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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 8:16 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

+1 CoC guarantees nontechnical tentacles grab hold on technical projects. Nobody needs 
those "management" types. To push it to the extreme, with CoC you are not 
allowed any more to tell these self-proclamed policemen to go where the sun never shines.


exactly   , I see that everywhere,  including where I work (a fairly 
large 'institution'), management/policy-makers (or "spread sheet people" 
as I call them)  telling you how, when and what to do (including 
nonsense 'training').  At some point you just have to say things like 
"No!",  "go away", "shut up" etc.   Yeah that is probably not 
"inclusive" (haha),  but I am not going sit there and listen to that, 
because it is not constructive,  in fact, it is destructive.  and that 
seems to, in fact, putting your foot down actually a positive effect.


I think that probably explains the 'explosive' trending topic here,  ..  
enough is enough, and people are speaking up.



Ron


Nik





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

Yeah,  but the problem with that is, that when you "leave it alone" or 
ignore it, contrary to "old fashioned belief", the woke and self 
proclaimed morally/ethically superior won't leave you alone.



Look at the Centos list/project, they have now have meetings "the 
group/meeting of smart people" as they call themselves (yeah I am not 
kidding) and they decide if people should waste their time on answering 
what you asked... Of course by now, Centos is pretty much dead.


(one reason is, IBM doesn't want to pay for that anymore,  other reason, 
developers walked away.)



On 6/29/21 7:50 AM, Ed wrote:

On 6/29/21 7:55 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps just say "NO!" to such silliness? I have been on this mailing 
list for years and don't recall any instances of bad behaviour. I 
only very occasionally know enough about a topic to contribute but 
I've been delighted with the help received for my questions. Keep 
things as they are!


As Ken said, leave it alone!


This discussion has caused more bad OT than I have ever seen.


Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

I agree with you John,  and what some others said on here, about this 
coc thing ...




I have been lurking on here for a good long while,  and asked some 
questions lately...   but I think I can say that I have never really 
seen anything mean/inappropriate  posted here (although I don't 
meticulously read everything) ..


so, probably like others, I thought .. "where did that came from?"  
Well, I guess some are just more pro-active/creative than I am, you 
know, "just in case" or something like that.



Ron



On 6/29/21 12:43 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

From: Robert Murphy [mailto:robert.mur...@gmx.com]




I have a feeling this post maybe violating the Code of Conduct.

Your post violates the spirit of what LinuxCNC and open source forims is all 
about and IMHO there is no place for that on this forum.

I want to learn from experienced people who are gracious enough to lend their 
time and knowledge to not only improve LCNC but also teach and help others use 
and perhaps in the future develop 'features'.

My issue with that one line in that CoC, which is a negative for that a new 
user, or an old one who is forgetful which comes with age.  The problem is:

"When you don't know what you don't know it's very difficult to look up information 
and separate the good from the bad".

This is where the 'experts' come in.  My Shuttle Express was the perfect 
example of how it would have worked perfectly on my 2.7.14 PC based system but 
was badly broken on the 2.8.1 Pi4.  It took a lot of coaching and reading and 
studying and trying things until I finally had the correct motion.  But without 
the support I would have bailed.  I learned a lot in the process.

But a short 4 word answer condensed down to RTFM only helps those who already 
know because they don't have to wade through wordy replies or questions.

I'll leave that subject with this old saw.  "Those that can do, those that can't 
teach" which is the biggest pile of rubbish coined but those who 'can' but haven't 
got a clue how to teach and rather than look stupid made up the phrase.  IMHO that one 
line is penned in by those who have forgotten that.

John Dammeyer



On 29/6/21 3:13 pm, R C wrote:

On 6/28/21 10:53 PM, Robert Murphy wrote:

Coraline Ada Ehmke is a blight, he's just a trouble maker that likes to
throw his weight around.

I had to google that...�� now I am confused� 


"based in Chicago <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago>, Illinois
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois>. She began her career as a
web developer" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_developer>



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct



On 6/29/21 12:16 AM, Robert Murphy wrote:

Read the rest of the wiki page, it's there in black & white.



yeah ...   but when I read "began a career as a web developer .."   I 
zoned out when I noticed it was raining outside 


what was the link again?




As much as a male tries to transition to a female or the other way
around, biology can not be denied.

Only a biological female can give birth.

Yeah I feel sorry for those for those that suffer from the anguish of
gender dis-morphia, it must be a horrible thing to go through. If they
transition and live the way they feel most comfortable so be it. As long
as they honest about it and don't force you into their fantasy. I feel
those that are genuinely afflicted are likely to be more honest and less
forceful in their actions.

In saying that there seems to be a few, and these are the loudest, that
will use their transgenderism to bully others, bully others in such a
way that if anything is said to oppose their actions their you are
treated as some kind of this or that phobic. They are also the one that
advocate puberty blockers so per-pubescent children can destroy their 
lives.


In our last federal election is Australia one of the major parties
wanted it to make it an offense for a Doctor to recommend counseling for
a patient presenting with gender dis-morphia. The law would have
compelled them to send them off to transition.

As much as the Code of Conduct targeted is at OSS projects, it goes much
much deeper than that. Take a look at some of the laws that have been
passed in western countries because of these squeaky wheels. This is the
madness that has led to terms such as "birthing person", "chest feeding"
and mediocre male "sportsmen", and I use that tern lightly, being
allowed to compete against biological women and dominating competitions.

I have a feeling this post maybe violating the Code of Conduct.



Yeah,  we're both gonna be moved from FB jail to LCNC jail. ... I hope 
we get along ...





On 29/6/21 3:13 pm, R C wrote:


On 6/28/21 10:53 PM, Robert Murphy wrote:

Coraline Ada Ehmke is a blight, he's just a trouble maker that likes to
throw his weight around.


I had to google that...   now I am confused  


"based in Chicago <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago>, Illinois
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois>. She began her career as a
web developer" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_developer>





On 29/6/21 1:17 pm, R C wrote:


On 6/28/21 9:11 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a bit
extreme:

"Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the
question asked"


I agree with you,  I am a rookie, as well in machining as in using
linuxcnc,  and I welcome all additional (excessive ?) info. I did get
quite a bit extra info "of the thread" from several here, which only
helps me understand things better


Ron




John Dammeyer


-Original Message-
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jep...@unpythonic.net]
Sent: June-28-21 6:26 PM
To: Jeff Epler
Subject: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

The LinuxCNC community including this mailing list now has a written
code of conduct. Unless it's your idea of fun to harass other 
people,

this is a big non-event for you.

You can read the code of conduct here:
https://www.linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT/

Jeff


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-28 Thread R C



On 6/28/21 10:53 PM, Robert Murphy wrote:

Coraline Ada Ehmke is a blight, he's just a trouble maker that likes to
throw his weight around.


I had to google that...   now I am confused  


"based in Chicago <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago>, Illinois 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois>. She began her career as a web 
developer" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_developer>






On 29/6/21 1:17 pm, R C wrote:


On 6/28/21 9:11 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a bit
extreme:

"Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the
question asked"


I agree with you,  I am a rookie, as well in machining as in using
linuxcnc,  and I welcome all additional (excessive ?) info. I did get
quite a bit extra info "of the thread" from several here, which only
helps me understand things better


Ron




John Dammeyer


-Original Message-
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jep...@unpythonic.net]
Sent: June-28-21 6:26 PM
To: Jeff Epler
Subject: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

The LinuxCNC community including this mailing list now has a written
code of conduct. Unless it's your idea of fun to harass other people,
this is a big non-event for you.

You can read the code of conduct here:
https://www.linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT/

Jeff


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-28 Thread R C



On 6/28/21 9:11 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a bit extreme:

"Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the question 
asked"


I agree with you,  I am a rookie, as well in machining as in using 
linuxcnc,  and I welcome all additional (excessive ?) info. I did get  
quite a bit extra info "of the thread" from several here, which only 
helps me understand things better



Ron




John Dammeyer


-Original Message-
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jep...@unpythonic.net]
Sent: June-28-21 6:26 PM
To: Jeff Epler
Subject: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

The LinuxCNC community including this mailing list now has a written
code of conduct. Unless it's your idea of fun to harass other people,
this is a big non-event for you.

You can read the code of conduct here:
https://www.linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT/

Jeff


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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

2021-06-27 Thread R C


Hi Andy,


is that an ISO?  I have been looking around at the linuxcnc.org website, 
but don't see it.



Do you have a download url?


thanks,


Ron



On 6/27/21 5:08 PM, andy pugh wrote:

LinuxCNC 2.8.2 has been released.

This is mainly a bugfix release, though it also adds a new HAL
component ("sendkeys") for creating input device events from HAL pins.

All users are encouraged to update.

In addition there is a new RTAI kernel based on 4.19.195. This comes
with a new version of RTAI 5.3. Both should be automatically installed
with the 2.8.2-rt version of LinuxCNC. If you are using the ISO
install or know that you are running the preempt-rt kernel this need
not concern you.

Thanks to the following contributors: alkabal Chris Morley damiodj
Dewey Garrett elovalvo Greg Carl Hans Unzner Håvard Flaget Aasen john
Kiall Mac Innes McCodie NhanPham Norbert Schechner Phillip Carter Rene
Hopf Sascha Ittner

The abridged changelog:

gladevcp: Numerous Updates
qtvcp -cam_align panel: allow selection of camera number
gmoccapy_3_1_3_8 - many updates
Typo correction Axis.py "Geometry reading" XYZBCUVW > XYZABCUVW
Docs add info on loading halscope
update 2.8 from master for xhc-whb04b-6
Merge pull request #1024 from kiall/2.8-axis-error-pin
translations - fixed moccapy / gmoccapy errors
Update hostmot2.9
Fix: update manual SSI
Update abs_encoder.c
add info on installing mesaflash
rx_mode typo in hm2_uart_setup
Docs: Many updates
flipflop: Add an inverted output pin, like the classic D-type latch
pncconf -fix inverting of steppers, in the tune axis test
qtvcp -qtaxis: change controls for lathe configs
pyui -fix commands for joints/axis changes
Docs: Correct pin direction 14 in the parallel port docs
gmoccapy_translations - new translation files
interp_o_word.cc: mdi-opened files leak #1088
command.c: use consistent external offset epsilon
sendkeys: A HAL component to send keystrokes and UI events
plasmac: fix material verter for sheetcam update
fix halcompile singleton option on userspace components
pncconf -fix internal description of 7i73 mode 1
pncconf -fix sserial number when parcing XML
pncconf -fix sserial channel number for the 7i96
Docs: Update URL to updated Pi SD card image. Also document limitations.
Merge pull request #1052 from Hans470/2.8-restructure-hal-doc
pncconf -many uodates
Added new version of Raspberry Pi4 and Raspberry Pi 400
AXIS: Add an axisui.error pin
qtvcp -qtDragon docs: add a bit of information about probing.
Update near.comp add {} for syntax coherence
PlasmaC: Many Updates
hal_glib -fix check_for_modes always failing
emccanon.cc GET_EXTERNAL_TOOL_SLOT hdl bogus request
Revert bad change inside driver XHC-WHB04B-6 lcnc 2.8





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Re: [Emc-users] changinging parallel port numbers

2021-06-26 Thread R C


thanks!!  that worked


Ron



On 6/26/21 2:58 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 at 20:49, R C  wrote:


Where (and what) do I change in the config file(s)  to for example  move
from port 2 to port 0?

Look in the HAL file for "loadrt hal_parport cfg=" and either
change it there, or if it references the INI, in the INI.





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[Emc-users] changinging parallel port numbers

2021-06-26 Thread R C


Hello,


this probably (somewhat) trivial;   I replaced a pci parallel card (one 
gave up) and of course the order of the ports changed.



Where (and what) do I change in the config file(s)  to for example  move 
from port 2 to port 0?



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

2021-06-14 Thread R C

that's ool.  Once I clear out my "work bench" a bit,  I might et up a 
few things,  possbly even with an RPI4 or so, and just test some setups.



I wonder if I have more fun playing/messing with these CNC machines the 
actually doing stuff with them  (which I want to, I have that telescope 
project too).



Ron


On 6/14/21 9:27 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Here's my test setup.

from left to right.
1. MESA 7i92H connected via Ethernet to the Pi4 1Gb sitting under my monitor.
 The Pi is running LinuxCNC.
2. Probotix Break out Board and although it could be isolated I'm using the 
same 12V supply for both sides with the BLK/WHT twisted wires.
 It generates the 5V to run the MESA 7i92H.  BLK/RED twisted wire.
3. The PWM Spindle Control board I pulled from the mill because I was too lazy 
to assemble another one for this testing.
 It too is powered from the 12VDC adaptor (actually more like about 16V)  
Grey jacket cable to black connector.
 This holds the little PWM to 10V module and is driven by the BoB via DB25 
pins 14-PWM, 16-DIR and 1-ENABLE
4. Bergerda AC Servo showing that it's running the motor at 558RPM which I set 
from the LinuxCNC buttons.

Now the first surprise when I stopped the LinuxCNC program.  I've been spoiled 
by the ChargePump on the PMDX-126 BoB I use.  With this small Probotix board 
the program stopped and the parallel port output pins all went high.  Not a 
problem for a stepper motor.  Big issue when the PWM input thinks that is 100% 
and the ENABLE signal which is active high goes high.  Motor started turning at 
full speed.

I'm not surprised.  So many of the Break Out Boards out there are designed only 
with stepper motors in mind but in this case this is the spindle.  This enable 
signal would also run a master power relay which would also stay on after 
LinuxCNC went away.  Not good.

With the Charge Pump gone the Break Out Board automatically disables outputs so 
they can't source current out to a drive and it definitely switches off any 
relays on the BoB.  So not too impressed with this small BoB.

Or maybe the issue is with the 7i92?  Perhaps on loss of communications with the host it 
should set the outputs low.  It's looking like it sets them high since the PWM output was 
0 and the ENABLE output is also LOW set by the "Toggle Machine Power F2" button 
on the user interface.





-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-14-21 8:14 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think


On 6/14/21 3:50 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 at 02:16, R C  wrote:


I have seen the 7i92� mentioned, and others,� can they do multiple
stepper motors?� (right now I am using a parallel BOB,� that connects
to� steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

The Mesa FPGA card replaces the parport card, and in some cases also
replaces the BoB.

The 5i25 and 7i92 replace only the Parport card and would retain the
same BoB. They can both be used with the same BoB as you currently
use, or you could use a 7i76 (probably overkill)

right I have been looking at some.� I don't mind using existing BOBs,
since I have several, and since I am not really running high-tech,
industrial stuff..� it shouldn't be too expensive.

(I saw some between 50-100 bucks, that would work (?)



Alternatively you could look at a 7i96 or 7i76E which both connect to
the ethernet port and replace both the parport card and the BoB.

I'll look into those too.

I wonder how these things need to be programmed though, John explained
some of that.� I think in a bit, when I have more time, I� just buy a
few and just jum in (but build a test setup first.


Ron



There are not any PCI cards which also directly replace the BoB, and
none that replace the stepper drivers.


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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

2021-06-14 Thread R C



On 6/14/21 3:45 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 at 01:45, R C  wrote:


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?

The most direct replacement for the PCI parallel port card would be a
Mesa 5i25. (or 6i25 if you are PCIe)

That looks just like a parallel port card, and hooks up in exactly the
same way.

Potentially up could add a back-panel adaptor for the second DB25 port
and have one connector for the lathe and one for the mill.


true,  BUT  those db25 connectorrs are a pain to route through walls 
etc,  bulky connectors.  So I like the idea of just using a cat 5  cable 
since they are easier to snake along stuff. (they are thinner too).


also cat5/6  is available in more lengths, and less expensive.





I see every other reply is saying "7i92" but I think your situation
looks more 5i25-shaped.




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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

2021-06-14 Thread R C



On 6/14/21 3:50 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 at 02:16, R C  wrote:

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple 
stepper motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects 
to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

The Mesa FPGA card replaces the parport card, and in some cases also
replaces the BoB.

The 5i25 and 7i92 replace only the Parport card and would retain the
same BoB. They can both be used with the same BoB as you currently
use, or you could use a 7i76 (probably overkill)


right I have been looking at some.  I don't mind using existing BOBs, 
since I have several, and since I am not really running high-tech, 
industrial stuff..  it shouldn't be too expensive.


(I saw some between 50-100 bucks, that would work (?)




Alternatively you could look at a 7i96 or 7i76E which both connect to
the ethernet port and replace both the parport card and the BoB.


I'll look into those too.

I wonder how these things need to be programmed though, John explained 
some of that.  I think in a bit, when I have more time, I  just buy a 
few and just jum in (but build a test setup first.



Ron



There are not any PCI cards which also directly replace the BoB, and
none that replace the stepper drivers.



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think



On 6/13/21 8:14 PM, Milosz K. wrote:

Hi Ron,

The MESA card, 7i92 as we are talking about in this case would replace your
failed PCI card.


Uhm, I thought that would be an ethernet card?


We might need a bit more info on how you have the 2 machines wired and
implemented in your present config to suggest the correct MESA solution.


well,  Originally the machines came in an Paxton/Patterson enclosure,  
with "optistep" electronics,  which is basically a parallel port 
"thing"  but the pinouts are all different.  The opti step has "onboard" 
simple  stepperdrivers.



What I did in both, is replaced the electronics (optistep), by using 
stepperdrivers (like those DM542 ones), and used a parallel port DB25 
BOB/breakout to connect it to a PC with a PCI parallel port card.



I don't mind at all throwing out the PCI card, BOB and use a mesa card 
to drive the stepper drivers.  and if I can talk to the/a MESA card  
with a regulat ethernet card, that would be great.



So basically,  I might just replace "everything" between the PC and the 
stepper drivers (DM542)  if that makes sense.




Ron






On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 10:06 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:


Ron,
Ethernet from your PC to the 7i92H which has two 26 pin headers.  Ribbon
cable from that to 25pin DB-25.  Male or Female depending on your Break Out
Board.  Mine plugs into the PMDX-126 and a far east Cheap BoB because the
PMDX126 doesn't bring out all the outputs on the second port.

If the picture makes it through the 7i92H is sitting on the bottom of the
cabinet at the left and a ribbon cable up to the PMDX126.  Or I plugged in
the parallel port cable sitting loose on the right.

It's that easy.

John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-13-21 6:55 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hi Ralph,

well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..� and it sounds like
I'd still need a parallel port?� The configuration, bitfile,� would that
be a linuxcnc thing?

(as I mentioned� previous;y,� I wouldn't mind� leaving parallel PCI
cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet
cards?)


thanks,


Ron

On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:

A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic

configuration you want ("bitfile") for your application.  It could have

the same pinout as your parallel port to plug right into your existing

breakout, but run your steppers much smoother and faster.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University

email system.


I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple

stepper motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that

connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual

steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot

(which has LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might

be plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.

My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical

grounding issues. Had too many of those in the past with

direct connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC

on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a

parallel BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of

them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are

harder to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these

things are desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for

fun, I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I

am mostly turning stock into scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the

ones that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet

cards used with

those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature

encoder,  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a

quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think


Hi John,


On 6/13/21 8:03 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Ron,
Ethernet from your PC to the 7i92H which has two 26 pin headers.  Ribbon cable 
from that to 25pin DB-25.  Male or Female depending on your Break Out Board.  
Mine plugs into the PMDX-126 and a far east Cheap BoB because the PMDX126 
doesn't bring out all the outputs on the second port.


So let's see if I get it.


On the PC side an ethernet card is used,  that connects to that 
breakoutboard, your PMDX-126, that in turn connects to the  MESA board, 
7i92H, with a 25 pin db25, and the mesa card runs the stepper drivers,  
am I on track here?






If the picture makes it through the 7i92H is sitting on the bottom of the 
cabinet at the left and a ribbon cable up to the PMDX126.  Or I plugged in the 
parallel port cable sitting loose on the right.
yes picture made it through.  It looks easy enough,  I just never used  
MESA cards, but it looks like that is a better options.  I can ut the  
cards in the enclosure,  and the just run a cat5/6 to it, which is a lot 
easier.


It's that easy.

John


thanks,


Ron








-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-13-21 6:55 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hi Ralph,

well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..� and it sounds like
I'd still need a parallel port?� The configuration, bitfile,� would that
be a linuxcnc thing?

(as I mentioned� previous;y,� I wouldn't mind� leaving parallel PCI
cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet
cards?)


thanks,


Ron

On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:

A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic configuration you want 
("bitfile") for your application.  It could have

the same pinout as your parallel port to plug right into your existing 
breakout, but run your steppers much smoother and faster.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that

connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might

be plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.

My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with

direct connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, 
doesn't need a pci or pcie slot this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-----
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of

them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder 
to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for

fun, I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am 
mostly turning stock into scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet

cards used with

those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a

quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think


Hi John,

On 6/13/21 7:58 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

RC,
If you go back and look at the message I posted today at 1AM the attached photo 
shows the MESA 7i92H connected with a ribbon cable to a small Probotix BoB and 
a DB-25 cable to a bunch of switches.


I'll have to dig through the trash can for that.




The PIN file I'm using is attached to this posting. The first part shows that 
the FPGA is configured by the .bit file to have
2 PWM channels
2 Quadrature channels
10 StepGen Channels.

The second half of the file shows a table with column 1 showing how the DB-25 
pins are connected.
The pins marked None are simple Inputs or outputs depending on the PP standard.

The StepGen is set up as Charge Pump on the conventional DB25 pin 17
Estop input on Pin 10
Machine or System enable output on Pin1

Any of the predefined modules do not have to be used and instead can be I/O.
At the moment on the first DB-25 (P2 on the 7i92) I am using 11,12,13 as the 
Home/Limit and on pin 15 Shared 3 axis limits on the other end of the home 
switch instead of the encoder.

The StepGen modules start at #0 and are assigned sequentially so you can't use 
StepGen 1 as outputs and then continue with StepGen 2 as another stepper 
source.  So normally what one would do is:
StepGen0 = X axis  DB25.1-2,3 for step,dir
StepGen1 = Y axis  DB25.1-4,5 for step,dir
StepGen2 = Z axis  DB25.1-6,7 for step,dir
StepGen3 = A axis  DB25.1-8,9 for step,dir

And you can see in this pin file there is no stepgen4 Direction output because 
it's used as the charge pump.
If you have a B or C rotary axis then the second port would use
StepGen5 = B axis DB25.2-2,3 for step/dir

The rest of the outputs like 4..9 can be used for Coolant etc.

I'm not sure since I've used quadrature #0 pins 11..13 on DB25.1 as Input 
whether the quadrature #1 can be used for quadrature.  My intention is to 
repurpose those pins to the spindle anyway and move the limit switches over to 
the second port.


but the counting of the encoder is done by that MESA card, correct?




I no longer have the need to keep this a dual boot WIN/Linux system that can 
still run from parallel ports.


I use an older Dell for that, just running Linux.




Thing is this is just one .pin file configuration.  There are others that have 
other features or are organized differently.  So first make a map of what your 
DB25's are organized as.  Then take a look at the various 7i92 pin files and 
find the closest one.  If you need more I/O there are other MESA expansion 
cards that use a Smart Serial module in the pin file on a couple of the header 
pins.  They then wouldn't be available to the DB-25 of course.


well..   I could use DB25/par ports again,  but had one break, and they 
are harder to come by, so I was thinking that ethernet would be an 
option where it's easier to find parts for?




Hope that helps.

it does..

John Dammeyer


Ron






-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-13-21 6:13 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,� part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.� So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that
connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be

plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.

My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct

connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't 
need a pci or pcie slot this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of

them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder 
to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun,

I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly 
turning stock into scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet

cards used with

those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers

Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think



On 6/13/21 7:38 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

Others will have more experience, mine is relatively recent.
The 7i92 in my setup interfaces to the BOB (PMDX132 in my case). It is driving 
4 axes on a shop made gantry-type mill. The actual stepper drivers on the 
PMDX132 are Gecko 201's, nothing stellar but it was almost free, and it works 

If you pick the right 7i92 version it has a DB25 as one of the 2 connectors. 
The Mesa board would directly connect to your PC using an ethernet cable.


That's an option I'd like.  Cat5/6 is a lot easier to get, and 
ethernetcards are easy to find. (It's harder to keep finding the right  
LPT PCI cards).


So each machine, the mill and the lathe,  both would need their own 
7i92, or whatever model,  right?



Ron




Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 9:13 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the parallel 
PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are harder to get.  So 
I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based controller in the PC side (Dell 
T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
.bit files to configure the Mesa card.
My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It also 
expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot 
this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up (PCI 
printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, besides, the 
setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the
ones that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards
used with
those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think


Hi Ralph,

well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..  and it sounds like 
I'd still need a parallel port?  The configuration, bitfile,  would that 
be a linuxcnc thing?


(as I mentioned  previous;y,  I wouldn't mind  leaving parallel PCI 
cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet 
cards?)



thanks,


Ron

On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:

A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic configuration you want 
("bitfile") for your application.  It could have the same pinout as your 
parallel port to plug right into your existing breakout, but run your steppers much 
smoother and faster.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
.bit files to configure the Mesa card.
My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It also 
expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot 
this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-----
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up (PCI 
printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, besides, the 
setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with
those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the 
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are 
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based 
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).


I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
.bit files to configure the Mesa card.
My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It also 
expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot 
this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up (PCI 
printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, besides, the 
setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with
those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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[Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think


Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a 
parallel BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them 
just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder 
to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?



What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things 
are desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying 
to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning 
stock into scrap).



I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones 
that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with 
those?)



I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature 
encoder,  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature 
encoder).



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

2021-06-12 Thread R C

I have several RPI3's and RPI4's.  what I noticed (with the RPI4)  more 
memory is always better.


There are  things they are good at, especially "light-weight" stuff, and 
other things they are not.   I use one as a datalogger, I tried RPI3 
RPI4-1GB/4GB/8GB, and it has timing and temperature issues.


(I am not using them for CNC).  I use aa RPI as a datalogger for a 
seismograph, that seems to be pushing it,  I use one for home 
automation, like switching off/on lights (which is not time critical), I 
use it for reading humidity/temp data, also fine because there are no 
timing critical things with that either. (I don't care if the lights go 
on/off a half second sooner or later)


they are pretty powerful little ARM computer/boards..  BUT  it is a 
$40-$80 piece of equipment... you get what you pay for.


I run CNClinux on a Dell, 172GB, dual cpu, 24 cores, I don't think an 
RPI can match that. an RPI might be able to run a CNC machine..  but if 
I'd do it, I'd do it for "funsies" to see if I can get away with it and 
make a point.


(I've been known to do things like that, just to see if I can get away 
with things.)


For example ..  what an RPI is not good at... is reliably read a 
quadrature encoder output, and I know some use these encoders.




but that's just my 2cts.


Ron



On 6/12/21 5:24 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

Hello guys,

As  some of you know, I'm finishing a CNC router and I'm about to purchase
all the control hardware. I know Gene, John, and several people here are
running LCNC on the PI with success but I would like to know how much of a
pain in the ass is to get it running well with a 7i76E for controlling the
router.

I'm trying to decide wheter I purchase Rpi 4b or I use a normal PC as I've
been doing with all the other machines. I really like the idea of using
something as portable and small as the Rpi but I don't want to purchase one
just to test right now... I do have a Rpi3 with Octoprint on the ender but
I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.

What do you guys think?

Thanks as always and I hope you're all doing well :)

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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc 2.8 debian 10 buster

2021-05-15 Thread R C


nevermind...

On 5/15/21 4:49 PM, R C wrote:

I run linuxcnc with dual monitors, and finally installed 2.8

How does one mirror the displays?


thanks,


Ron




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[Emc-users] linuxcnc 2.8 debian 10 buster

2021-05-15 Thread R C


I run linuxcnc with dual monitors, and finally installed 2.8

How does one mirror the displays?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc forum website: Lathe G code Generator

2021-03-08 Thread R C


ah, cool,  I'll try that.


thanks!


Ron


On 3/8/21 4:53 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 at 23:50, R C  wrote:


With 'LinuxCNC Master' do you mean the master on github?

The easy way to get it is precompiled from the buildbot:

http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org




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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc forum website: Lathe G code Generator

2021-03-08 Thread R C




On 3/8/21 4:26 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 at 22:46, R C  wrote:


Do I need an addon/plugin or so to actually run examples, I found, that
have G71/G72  code/cycles in it or so?

LinuxCNC Master (also known as development or 2.9)  includes G71 /
G72. The cycle is not included in 2.8.



With 'LinuxCNC Master' do you mean the master on github?

(https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc)

If it's somewhere else, do you have a link for it?


thanks,


Ron







Master also has sample .ngc files in the nc_files directory.

It is possible to add the codes to LinuxCNC 2.8 via a remap, but that
version uses different combinations of command letters.




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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc forum website: Lathe G code Generator

2021-03-08 Thread R C

So I have been digging arond the internets a bit to find G71/G72 g-code 
examples, but somehow I don't seem to be able to get them to work. It 
always seems to be the case that linuxcnc 'complains' about a 
code/command it does't know.



I found one example, in the linux-cnc examples dir, called: 
lathe_pawn.ngc (make sure you pronounce that right  :)  )


Running that in axis works, but I don't see any G71/G72 'instructions' 
in it.



Do I need an addon/plugin or so to actually run examples, I found, that 
have G71/G72  code/cycles in it or so?



thanks,


Ron

(as mentioned before, I am a rookie and don't know much about g-code 
programming/coding, but like to learn by example, especially on a lathe)





On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 9:14 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


I  am still looking for some tools/utilities  to create/run g-codes for
a cnc lathe, in linuxcnc.


I saw this link:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/28692-lathe-g-code-generator


it's from 2014 though, but wondering .. is it still around, can it be used?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc forum website: Lathe G code Generator



On 3/7/21 11:13 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Fusion360 is the only tool I've seen that can automatically generate lathe
tool paths.  It is pretty much "point and click" but there is a lot of
pointing and clicking to specify the cut depth and your tool angle and a
dozen other things.Then it generates a g-code file and can run the file
in simulation (but LinuxCNC can also run it in simulation)

The software is free for hobby users and start-up businesses.



I did set up a windows partition to do that, installed fusion360 and 
played with it a little. I am not a really big fan, but there doesn't 
seem to be much else (if anything else.)


I'd rather use something on linux, and i happen to like freecad. But 
somehow  there's nothing much for lathes in it (yet)


I might just need to give it another shot..






On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 9:14 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


I  am still looking for some tools/utilities  to create/run g-codes for
a cnc lathe, in linuxcnc.


I saw this link:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/28692-lathe-g-code-generator


it's from 2014 though, but wondering .. is it still around, can it be used?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] nother not so silly Q




On 3/7/21 10:43 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

If you intend to print man pages use the "-t" option and you will get
Postscript output that is easier to read than dumb-ASCII.

Something like

man -t chmod > chmod_manpage.ps

Will generate a Postscript file for the "chmod" command that is formatted
for letter-size pages with professional-like typesetting.   30 years ago I


you mean like ... bold ?



once had a notebook of these printouts it worked the same way then as now.
UNIX was old, even then.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 9:20 PM R C  wrote:


well you could pipe it  through lpr.


but also, probably easier,  you can pipe it to a file..  and then print
that file.


for example for ls:


$ man ls > ls-man.txt


check ls-man.txt,  it should be an ascii/txt file.   and you can print
that.


Ron

On 3/7/21 10:08 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I guess I'm one of the guys that grew up reading the printed word, and to
this day I grasp a howto 10 times better by reading it on paper.

So, how is the best way to get a paper copy of a man page, since man
doesn't seem to have the ability to redirect its screen output to a
printer?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] nother not so silly Q


well you could pipe it  through lpr.


but also, probably easier,  you can pipe it to a file..  and then print 
that file.



for example for ls:


$ man ls > ls-man.txt


check ls-man.txt,  it should be an ascii/txt file.   and you can print 
that.



Ron

On 3/7/21 10:08 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I guess I'm one of the guys that grew up reading the printed word, and to
this day I grasp a howto 10 times better by reading it on paper.

So, how is the best way to get a paper copy of a man page, since man
doesn't seem to have the ability to redirect its screen output to a
printer?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett



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[Emc-users] linuxcnc forum website: Lathe G code Generator


Hello,


I  am still looking for some tools/utilities  to create/run g-codes for 
a cnc lathe, in linuxcnc.



I saw this link: 
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/28692-lathe-g-code-generator



it's from 2014 though, but wondering .. is it still around, can it be used?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: pcb milling

2021-03-03 Thread R C



On 3/3/21 9:13 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:

Something like 
https://blog.snapeda.com/2016/12/13/the-top-5-desktop-pcb-printers/


yeah probably  :)




-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: March 3, 2021 10:47 AM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: pcb milling

I wonder how long before someone comes up with something, so that you can just  print a 
pcb on a 3d printer.  Put a sheet of "substrate" in it, and just print the 
traces on it.

On 3/2/21 9:20 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote:

Has anyone tried this for holding down PCB's when milling?

https://www.materialsampleshop.com/products/micro-suction-tape

Roland

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: pcb milling

2021-03-03 Thread R C

I wonder how long before someone comes up with something, so that you 
can just  print a pcb on a 3d printer.  Put a sheet of "substrate" in 
it, and just print the traces on it.


On 3/2/21 9:20 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote:

Has anyone tried this for holding down PCB's when milling?

https://www.materialsampleshop.com/products/micro-suction-tape

Roland

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Re: [Emc-users] pre-programmed keys or macros ?

2021-02-28 Thread R C


I made those changes, but when starting linuxcnc I get this:


Error: no pyvcp element in file!


On 2/28/21 3:52 PM, Feral Engineer wrote:

Happy to help, sir 

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 5:47 PM R C  wrote:


That looks like exactly what it is that I want to do.

(I probably have to play with the 'MDI_COMMAND a bit,  since I want to
do that in 2 steps. First go to the x0, y0 position and after that to
the Z0, to prevent crashing into anything)

thanks!!


Ron



On 2/28/21 3:27 PM, Feral Engineer wrote:

You can make a gladevcp or pyvcp button that activates a macro/mdi

command.

See if this is helpful

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Custom_MDI_Buttons

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 7:33 PM R C  wrote:


I think I figured it out partially:


G0 G54 X0 Y0

G0 G54 Z0


takes me 'safely' to where I touched off.


How can I create a button, or a "key combination", that does that?


Ron



On 2/27/21 4:52 PM, R C wrote:

Hello,


is there a way, in axis, to pre-program a function key, or key
combination, that can be used to execute some g-code?


Also,  is there a way to go back to the point/spot where you touched
off at the end of a run?  (X, Y first, then Z axis) ?


thanks,


Ron


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Re: [Emc-users] pre-programmed keys or macros ?

2021-02-28 Thread R C


That looks like exactly what it is that I want to do.

(I probably have to play with the 'MDI_COMMAND a bit,  since I want to 
do that in 2 steps. First go to the x0, y0 position and after that to 
the Z0, to prevent crashing into anything)


thanks!!


Ron



On 2/28/21 3:27 PM, Feral Engineer wrote:

You can make a gladevcp or pyvcp button that activates a macro/mdi command.

See if this is helpful

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Custom_MDI_Buttons

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 7:33 PM R C  wrote:


I think I figured it out partially:


G0 G54 X0 Y0

G0 G54 Z0


takes me 'safely' to where I touched off.


How can I create a button, or a "key combination", that does that?


Ron



On 2/27/21 4:52 PM, R C wrote:

Hello,


is there a way, in axis, to pre-program a function key, or key
combination, that can be used to execute some g-code?


Also,  is there a way to go back to the point/spot where you touched
off at the end of a run?  (X, Y first, then Z axis) ?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] pre-programmed keys or macros ?

2021-02-27 Thread R C


I think I figured it out partially:


G0 G54 X0 Y0

G0 G54 Z0


takes me 'safely' to where I touched off.


How can I create a button, or a "key combination", that does that?


Ron



On 2/27/21 4:52 PM, R C wrote:

Hello,


is there a way, in axis, to pre-program a function key, or key 
combination, that can be used to execute some g-code?



Also,  is there a way to go back to the point/spot where you touched 
off at the end of a run?  (X, Y first, then Z axis) ?



thanks,


Ron




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[Emc-users] pre-programmed keys or macros ?

2021-02-27 Thread R C


Hello,


is there a way, in axis, to pre-program a function key, or key 
combination, that can be used to execute some g-code?



Also,  is there a way to go back to the point/spot where you touched off 
at the end of a run?  (X, Y first, then Z axis) ?



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] (off topic) nema17 angle gearbox

2021-02-26 Thread R C



On 2/26/21 12:19 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 18:49, R C  wrote:


this is off topic,  but was wondering if anyone knows of any 90 degree
angle nema17 gearboxes (preferably 1:1)

To be unhellpful: I don't know of any but most of the NEMA17 that I
see are shorter than they are wide, so I am not sure what the
application would be?


I was thinking about mounting a nema17 motor at a 90 degree angle on an 
acis.  The ones I have are actually longer,  plus taking the 
motormounts, coupler and wheels into considering that could save me 
quite a bit of space.  I know about the backlash,  that would never be 0,





There would generally be backlash introduced, too.




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[Emc-users] (off topic) nema17 angle gearbox

2021-02-26 Thread R C


Hello,


this is off topic,  but was wondering if anyone knows of any 90 degree 
angle nema17 gearboxes (preferably 1:1)


that take a 1/4" input shaft, and of course a nema17 stepper motor


thanks,


Ron





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Re: [Emc-users] axis speed overrides

2021-02-18 Thread R C


thanks!

On 2/18/21 4:50 PM, Phill Carter wrote:



On 19 Feb 2021, at 10:45 am, R C  wrote:

Hello,


where in axis can I set the range for the "speed overide",  or the ranges for the 
"overrides" in general?   (I want to use it to  speed up  the process when using axis for 
'simulations')

<http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-config.html#_display_section 
<http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-config.html#_display_section>>



thanks,


Ron



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[Emc-users] axis speed overrides

2021-02-18 Thread R C


Hello,


where in axis can I set the range for the "speed overide",  or the 
ranges for the "overrides" in general?   (I want to use it to  speed up  
the process when using axis for 'simulations')



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

actually,  I think that is what I saw that guy in that video I posted 
doing. In freecad, he took a plane and intersected it with his work 
piece, and then created a path (he called it a wire.).  I posted that 
video here  a few iterations back in this thread.



That seemed kind of neat, how he did that,  but I was not able to 
reproduce that.




On 2/3/21 3:29 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 21:55, R C  wrote:


I know how to code, from micro controller to clusters,  but this "g-code
thing" is a different animal.  And I imagine,  that it would take a lot
of drawing and coding on paper, you know,  like the 1970's Univaxes...

Not really, you just need to draw the outline. For most lathe-turned
parts that is just a set of diameters and shoulders.




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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software



On 2/3/21 2:14 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 18:18, R C  wrote:


I have been busy for a while with that pay check thing, and didn't have
much time to look into  creating g-code, that I can use  in linux cnc
for a lathe.

It's worth pointing out that now that LinuxCNC has G71 and G72 you
might not need CAM.


right,  I looked at that, a while back.



If you can hand-code the desired profile then the repeated cuts etc
are all done by the cycle.


I know how to code, from micro controller to clusters,  but this "g-code 
thing" is a different animal.  And I imagine,  that it would take a lot 
of drawing and coding on paper, you know,  like the 1970's Univaxes...


It seems more convenient, esier, less error prone, less crashing tools 
in the chuck, work etc,  to do it with a CAD program, and have it 
generate  g-code.




Be aware that the built-in version in Master uses a different set of
control words to the Python remap version that can run on earlier
versions.


Uhm,   I don't ven understand what it is you just said 



I am still searching for something that  works for me the easiest, but  
as I said, it is a beginning hobby for me, so I am not pressured for time.





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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

I set up a new machine with a clean windows 10 install (on a disk tray), 
after the install it was not happy with the  AMD ATI video card 
(irritating), apparently there is an ATI driver that messes up and is 
not needed.



When the application starts,  one needs to be connected to the internet, 
and log in with an account and password previously created.  (also  
annoying  and a security risk I think).




does the installer, a new download, install over the old one?  do you 
need to uninstall the old one?   or start from scratch with a fresh 
windows 10 even?





On 2/3/21 1:59 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:13 PM R C  wrote:


well,


I don't expect companies to give me stuff for free of course, they
produce software for a market, to make money, I am just not in that
market. I read that a license, per year, if not mistaken, is $495, and
you can use it for free for a year (1st year ?). That is of course a
good deal, for a machine shop.


The one year license is renewable.  To renew you just download the

installer again.  I don't think I even let the download complete last time
I did it.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software