Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Fri, January 31 2003 7:54 pm, mike wrote: : Not one of the hijackers was Iraqi, 15 of the 19 were Saudi however; our : ally. This ain't about 9/11, its about 11/??/2004. : Oh boy! All the things I could do to him! And he'd never say it was me, if I sent someone else to do it! WOOT! -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- You will be successful in your work. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Saddam has been a dictator (evil) and had weapons for 20 years and there has not been a global event. Dubya has been President for 2 years and he is going to start one. Taken with the fact that there are 2 other unrelated nations that he includes in his "axis of power", this is a dangerous situation. On Wednesday 29 January 2003 05:52 am, Vahur Lokk wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:50, you wrote: > > All I've got to say for The Shrub, our President, is, "SHOW ME THE BEEF!" > > If he shows me that he has proof for everything he said, especially the > > parts about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, I too will stand up and > > join you in saying loudly, "DO IT!" > > 1. No-one believes Saddam has nuclear weapons, even if he has been trying > to get one. > 2. He certainly has chemical - he has used them before > 3. He certainly has biological - he has used them. > I name fools everyone who seriously considers the idea that Saddam-like guy > has destroyed them all. > Now proof is almost impossible - its about finding a needle in a haystack. > So in fact there is quite stupid situation: > 1. There is no formal reason for war - no proof > 2. There is de facto reason - those weapons are out there > 3. War must start in february - climatical reasons > 4. If location of bio and chem weapons cannot be found before the war > breaks out, they can be used and effects of bio weapons will not be limited > to the war regions but could wipe out half the world > 5. If Saddam is just left alone continuing current idiotic policies it will > only get worse - like him getting nukes also. Which would be real shit. > > So there is no good answer, and whichever way they go there are serious > risks. Also this war will be much more difficult than previous Gulf War. > From militery point of view, I mean. If you have a good way to get rid of > Saddam fast, without the war, let uncle Bush know ;-) > > Wahur Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Not one of the hijackers was Iraqi, 15 of the 19 were Saudi however; our ally. This ain't about 9/11, its about 11/??/2004. On Wednesday 29 January 2003 01:48 am, Franki wrote: > get a grip people > > I don't know much about iraq.. none of us really do.. and thats the point, > we hear them proclaim inocence.. and he here the US and others declare > otherwise... who really knows... > > one thing I do know.. if they do nothing to iraq and saddam.. and another > 9/11 happens.. millions will stand up and lynch Bush demanding to know why > nothing was done beforehand.. why they were not warned.. why saddam was > allowed to get that far... > > One thing we can pretty safely speculate.. saddam is in a much better > position to either become a Terrorist (if he isn't already) or to finance > them then the Taliban were.. its unlikely that if he did something that it > would be as small as 9/11 (not that that was really small or minor, but > compared to a nuke or similiar, it could be) > > The thing is, saddam could nuke a city in the US without giving a shit.. > the US can't drop one on Iraq in response because of innocent > casualties... and the neighbouring Arab countries.. some of whom are not > the enemy... do you think saddam doesn't know that??? > > Also, I am not a yank, I'm Australian, but IF the US are telling the > truth.. then hell yes, we should overthrow saddam.. and for once we should > do it BEFORE a tragedy occurs, not after.. > > > Thats all I am saying on the matter, lets move this to the newbie list or > off mandrake altogether... > > rgds > > Franki > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 2:41 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 23:22 -0500, Mark Weaver wrote: > > Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > >Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > >future for MandrakeSoft. > > >After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > > >the world as we know it. > > >I listened to the US-Amercan president. > > >I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > >scare me to death. > > > > > >wobo > > > > wobo, > > > > I watched the speech as well, but I'm a little unclear as to what you're > > refering to. What did I miss? > > ??? Did you miss the phrase "We are peaceful. But if war is forced > upon us we will fight." Hitler used that phrase when he told the > German people that "Since 5:45 we return fire". > > Did you miss the way he told the american people that "he" is decided > to go to war? Did you miss that in his whole speech he never spoke > about the consequences of that war? > > wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Todd Lyons wrote on Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 12:03:39PM -0800 : > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > Offtopic for this list. Take it offlist. When I wake up tomorrow, I will unsubscribe everybody who has contributed to this thread as of right now. I announced it yesterday giving 24 hours notice. No more notices. People will be dropped, no questions asked. You'd think by now Godwin's Law would have ended this thread. Blue skies... Todd -- Todd Lyons -- MandrakeSoft, Inc. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ Favourite shell: bash, though I also like 'init=/usr/bin/emacs' --Andrew Tridgell Mandrake Cooker Devel Version, Kernel 2.4.21pre4-1mdk msg65330/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?(OFF LIST)
> > > > ..OH! That guy is going to kill his neighbour! Quick! Let's nuke them > > both right off the face of the earth! > > Whew, what an accurate characterization of current events. Stop being a > damn idiot. I'll stop being a damn idiot, sir, when you stop making arguable statements and insulting whoever dares to challenge you. Or, as you said in another post, "your American leadership". heh. > > Doing nothing is no answer. Trying to impose peace by force is no answer > > either. > > Tell it to the Jews and the English people. Anybody rooted in reality > is not going to buy the bullshit you are shoveling. You are damn right i can tell that to the English, pal. Ghandi freed his country from them without firing a single bullet. > > If i see two guys having a fist fight, i can try to stop them by > > getting in the middle, in which case i would probably get beat by both > > of them. > > Or you can get the cops to break them up (BY FORCE), at which point the > problem will be solved for awhile (LIKE IT WAS WITH KUWAIT AND IRAQ). And who is the world police? The US? > > I can try to make them calm down by talking to them, > > which is of course, useless. I can also sit and watch until it's over. > > It's your choice. Nations on middle-east are all populated by the > > same kind of people. Same origins, same look, same race. For > > some reason (religious, territorial, you name it) they have been > > killing each other for generations. Nothing will ever stop them from > > thinking their enemy is the enemy of their gods. Nothing will make > > them stop killing each other. > > How in the FUCK DO YOU KNOW? This country was founded on new ideas and I read the news, buddy. I study history. And i'm not wasting any more time on this. Damian -- -- I don't want Windows to be only for the 31173. Yes, we've come a long way from all those security holes, virii, and cryptic commands like "Edit textfile.txt" (what in the hell is that supposed to mean?) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Die thread, die. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 15:03, Todd Lyons wrote: > Wolfgang Bornath wrote on Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 04:49:36AM +0100 : > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > future for MandrakeSoft. > > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > > the world as we know it. > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > > Offtopic for this list. Take it offlist. > > Blue skies... Todd > - -- > ...and I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious > anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my binaries, and you > will know my name is root, when I lay my vengeance upon thee. > Mandrake Cooker Devel Version, Kernel 2.4.20-2mdk I note with interest the sig you chose for this occasion. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 16:38, Ross Slade wrote: > > > The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since > > > > Oh please, what a load of grandstanding tripe. > > My apologies to this list, I have just joined and thought I had joined a > Mandrake Linux support list. Can anyone give me the correct address so I can > join the Mandrake Expert list? My apologies as well. Shouldn't have posted that last message. Only lengthening a thread that should be left to die. I'll go find myself an alt.politics group someplace to rant in and leave my discourse here for Mandrake related things. Regards, Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
> > The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since > > Oh please, what a load of grandstanding tripe. My apologies to this list, I have just joined and thought I had joined a Mandrake Linux support list. Can anyone give me the correct address so I can join the Mandrake Expert list? -Ross --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 21/01/2003 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Thursday 30 January 2003 03:19 pm, Tibbetts, Ric wrote: > With all the Anit-American inflamitory comments that have been generated > on this thread, I couldn't help but to break down, and add my piece to > this. Thanks Ric! -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 16:11, Mick Szucs wrote: > All you Republican-wannabe U.S. fascist-impostor "president" lovers can > eat me. Go find one of those nukes that Dubya loves so much more than > educated children or healthy senior citizens and shove it right up your > ass. The world will be a safer place for us all when the Bush regime > has finally fallen. In retrospect, that may have been a little harsh. You can skip the nuclear-ass bit. You're still welcome to eat me. Peace! Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 15:19, Tibbetts, Ric wrote: > The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since > September 11. Remember, remember! Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of > weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were > burned alive. Remember those people leaping o their deaths from the > top of burning skyscrapers. Remember the hundreds of firemen buried > alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was > on one of the planes with her mum. Remember, remember -- and realize > that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it > could have. Oh please, what a load of grandstanding tripe. Remember, remember! Remember the U.S. victory over democracy in Guatamala, and the 200,000 civilians that have died at the hands of one after another brutal regime with close ties to Washington for more than four decades. http://www.rightsaction.org/articles/0797.htm Remember the more than 200,000 people of East Timor who have been killed at the hands of the Indonesian Government with the political, monetary and military support of the United States of America. http://etan.org/timor/BkgMnu.htm Remember 70,000+ U.S. sanctioned civilian murders in El Salvador. http://www3.uakron.edu/worldciv/pascher/salvador.html Remember Chile, Nicaragua, Panama. Remember the children of Iraq, who face starvation, lack of medicine, food and clean drinking, and who have died by the hundreds of thousands for the sin of being Iraqi. And will be killed again by a power-hungry madman who wants to show both his enemies and his "allies" exactly who is the boss. http://www.progressive.org/0801issue/nagy0901.html I could go on, but those who can hear what I'm saying already know this stuff, and those that can't won't be swayed anyhow. > ONE year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- > the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the > pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol > Pot's Mountain of skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked > like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so > cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world > could agree on one thing --nobody deserves this fate. That's right .. we were WITNESSES this time. The U.S. dishes out atrocity after atrocity around the globe, without prime-time coverage. September 11th really woke people up to the fact that there is a war going on - the casualties have been terribly one sided so far, but no one nation can hope to show such total disregard for the interests of the impoverished in the world without having to pay the piper one day. And attacks have come, and will come again and again unless there is a major reversal of U.S. foreign policy. Again and again, the U.S. seeks to serve it's economic interests abroad at great cost to the quality of life in already impoverished nations. Surely we can agree on one thing --NOBODY-- deserves this fate. Violence begets violence. The path to peace does not lead us through war. All you Republican-wannabe U.S. fascist-impostor "president" lovers can eat me. Go find one of those nukes that Dubya loves so much more than educated children or healthy senior citizens and shove it right up your ass. The world will be a safer place for us all when the Bush regime has finally fallen. ... wow .. this article really got my goat. :) Peace, Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Ladies and gentlemen (you too, Bornath) before I get started here I'd like to introduce Dr Khidhir Hamza, a defector nuclear scientist from Iraq currently residing in the United States. http://www.benadorassociates.com/hamza.php I note that there has been a considerable lessening of traffic on this thread since last night, a testament to the maturity of the peeps here, even if we all do get passionate at times. To ease the minds of all concerned, I will follow the traffic lessening trend after this, as long as it continues to be the trend. On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 02:11, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 00:44 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 22:49, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > > future for MandrakeSoft. After tonight I wonder whether there will > > > be a future for us all and the world as we know it. > > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. I'm not religious, I wish > > > I were. This madman and the options he has scare me to death. > > > > > > wobo > > > > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. Especially > > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > > then? > > You just described Hitler and the German people in 1939. > You just described Goebbels in the Berlin Sportpalast with 100,000 > excited Germans shouting "War!" > "If war is forced upon us we will fight." Mr. Bush used those words. > Hitler used those words when he told the German people that "Polland > has attacked!" Hear the speeches of 1939 and of 2003 and compare the > phrases. And don't try to tell me anything about the German history. Your arrogance is astounding. You spout your own versions of American history to us (obviously flawed), and then forbid us from saying anything about yours? This is the same kind of arrogance that got germans into WW2, and sealed the fate of the Jews. > I don't want to take Hussein's side. Of course you do; you already have. Same mistake you guys made in WW2; aligning yourselves on the bad side of right and wrong. To be as technically competent a people as you all seem to be, you sure do seem keen on making mighty stupid ethical choices. Maybe if you were a little more along the lines of "In God We Trust", you might not be assuming such indefensible positions and losing all the time. > Surely he is a madman. But Mr. > Bush is trying to convince the world to go to a war with unknown > consequences to the whole world and he does so without any proper > reason so far. Hans Blix disagrees with you, Dr Khidhir Hamza disagrees with you, and oh yeah by the way your own German intelligence forces disagree with you as well. http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/1 Excerpt(s) from above URL::: "German intelligence estimates that Iraq will produce three atomic weapons by 2005. Reports of terrorists trying to get their hands on crop-dusters also point to Iraq. Even before Desert Storm, Hussein's scientists had modified crop-dusters for spraying biowarfare agents. They also had fitted a fighter plane with a spray tank." "Iraq's germ warfare program was perfected during its war with Iran in the 1980s. Little known outside scientific circles is the fact that Hussein even experimented on humans, starting around 1985 with anthrax. Cholera was developed as a weapon as well and employed in experiments on villagers in the Kurdish north. Iraq's germ warfare equipment and stocks were supposedly destroyed under the direction of U.N. inspectors after Desert Storm. But Hussein managed to hide quite a bit of it, as well as the biologists who worked on the weapons." "After Iraq's defeat in the Gulf War in 1991, terrorist training camps proliferated all over the country. One was right next to my ranch, 30 miles north of Baghdad on a branch of the Tigris River. The rural setting was ideal for such a facility. There were other camps, I learned later, which were even more remote, reachable only by helicopter. The buildings were so rudimentary that from the air they looked like Bedouin encampments." "I got to know one of the commandos who knew of my high rank in the government and had become friendly with my sons. In a relaxed mood one day, he told me that the training included the use of gas masks and special protective clothing, an unmistakable hint that biowar was in the curriculum." "Another reason to worry about Iraq: It has a huge underground netwo
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
With all the Anit-American inflamitory comments that have been generated on this thread, I couldn't help but to break down, and add my piece to this. This is an article from London's Daily Mirror Surprise! Surprise! When one of the world's most liberal left wing newspapers writes a great article like this, there is hope for everyone. A thoughtfully written piece in one of the most left wing newspapers in the UK. Just a word of background for those of you who aren't familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror. This is one of the most notorious Left wing, anti-American dailies in the UK. Hard to believe that the Daily Mirror actually published it, but it did. NOTE: I didn't write it, and I'm not Brittish. But it does get to the point... This will be my one, and only contribution to this thread. Begin article: ONE year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing --nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: the victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil. But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance [deserved reprimand or punishment]. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country -- too loud, too rich, too full of themselves and so much happier than Europeans - but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach. America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of countries -- were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them? What touched the heart about those who died in the twin towers and on the planes was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands and wives. And children. Some unborn. And these people brought it on themselves? And their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter? These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11. Remember, remember! Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive. Remember those people leaping o their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers. Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum. Remember, remember -- and realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have. So, a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked up without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex. So, some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semiautomatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti. AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination? When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that -- and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war. The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell" if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Title: RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Ron, Where did you study psychology? Your opinion of the "Even an elementary psychological awareness immediately recognizes his multiple false projections. First, instead of owning it, he projects his own devils on to Osama bin Laden, now on to Saddam Hussien." make it seem as you are the one who needs to go to the nut house. Fact is Osama bin Laden killed over 3 thousand innocent people - is that God's healing power? I give up - I am going to make all Mandrake e-mails as "read" and forget this list for a while. -Original Message- From: Ron Stodden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 6:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. But it is plainly quite true - he is quite certifiably insane. He is the grandson of a traitor, Prescott Bush, who was aiding and abetting the Nazis though WWII until he was arrested and imprisoned. The sins of the father are visited upon the son, even over two generations. Even an elementary psychological awareness immediately recognises his multiple false projections. First, instead of owning it, he projects his own devils on to Osama bin Laden, now on to Saddam Hussien. When he describes Hussein he is describing himself and his own contemplated actions. This kind of projection is very common (and a serious sin against God), just very bad in his case. He has virtually no personality or character - his observers immediately sense this and project their own goodness on to him in the attempt to fill the psychological void (nature abhors a vacuum), but healing does not happen - it should be obvious why (there is falseness all around). The psychological effect of such behaviour on healthy observers is to induce the unconscious desire to heal (this is God at work). This strong attraction is sensed as charisma - always the result of mental sickness, serious character faults, in the observed. Shakespeare wrote most of his plays about this fascinating subject. So that in a few words is the simple explanation of what is going on. What is needed is better knowledge of one's internal psychological processes, so they are not disowned and therefore projected out on the external world. When that happens, the world reflects it back in kind, and it hurts. Beware of yourself, George W Bush! You yourself are the enemy your speechwriter describe so fluently. Bush himself is not fluent - note the constant applause interruptions in his State of the Union speech. No developed ideas at all - it takes peace and time to express them - result is more plans-void from Bush. Especially > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > then? Or more likely there is something seriously wrong with the German > side of the equation. Ah, yeah, given history, I'd say definitely so. > > It pisses me off when other countries that have no ethics or balls to do > the right thing in defense of innocents criticize my country and my > president. Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to > it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the > ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the > Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely > pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like > maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish > this dance. > > LX > > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Ron. [Melbourne, Australia] 20030119 Get Fastest Mandrake downloader, English-only, from: http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/ No Penguin Liberation Front (plf) access - no plf rsync server.
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Lyvim Xaphir wrote: I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. But it is plainly quite true - he is quite certifiably insane.He is the grandson of a traitor, Prescott Bush, who was aiding and abetting the Nazis though WWII until he was arrested and imprisoned.The sins of the father are visited upon the son, even over two generations. Even an elementary psychological awareness immediately recognises his multiple false projections. First, instead of owning it, he projects his own devils on to Osama bin Laden, now on to Saddam Hussien.When he describes Hussein he is describing himself and his own contemplated actions. This kind of projection is very common (and a serious sin against God), just very bad in his case.He has virtually no personality or character - his observers immediately sense this and project their own goodness on to him in the attempt to fill the psychological void (nature abhors a vacuum), but healing does not happen - it should be obvious why (there is falseness all around). The psychological effect of such behaviour on healthy observers is to induce the unconscious desire to heal (this is God at work). This strong attraction is sensed as charisma - always the result of mental sickness, serious character faults, in the observed. Shakespeare wrote most of his plays about this fascinating subject. So that in a few words is the simple explanation of what is going on. What is needed is better knowledge of one's internal psychological processes, so they are not disowned and therefore projected out on the external world. When that happens, the world reflects it back in kind, and it hurts. Beware of yourself, George W Bush! You yourself are the enemy your speechwriter describe so fluently. Bush himself is not fluent - note the constant applause interruptions in his State of the Union speech. No developed ideas at all - it takes peace and time to express them - result is more plans-void from Bush. Especially when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen then? Or more likely there is something seriously wrong with the German side of the equation. Ah, yeah, given history, I'd say definitely so. It pisses me off when other countries that have no ethics or balls to do the right thing in defense of innocents criticize my country and my president. Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish this dance. LX Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Ron. [Melbourne, Australia] 20030119 Get Fastest Mandrake downloader, English-only, from: http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/ No Penguin Liberation Front (plf) access - no plf rsync server. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 12:24:20AM +1100, Ron Stodden wrote: > Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was because Kuwait was slant drilling under > the border to illegally extract Iraqian oil and refused to desist. I thought this thread was declared dead? But I do want to thank you for informing me as to why Kuwait was invaded, all of this time I was under the impression the Iraq invaded because they believe that once Kuwait was part of their territory. Thanks for clearing things up. -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
neither did Italy, yet they - along with a few lesser nations - were part of a well known and globally acknowledged partnership known as the "Axis", while the opposing nations were collectively known as the "Allies". it was a single global war comprised of numerous nations on both sides (both, as in 2 sides), fought on numerous fronts simultaneously - Europe, Asia, Pacific islands, Africa, Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. and now that this thread has been abused, bastardized and mauled beyond recognition more than once, let it die completely or take it private... PLEASE. by my very haphazard count, there have been somewhere close to 100 posts on this thread alone - far too many for a subject so blatantly OT as this was initially, and has continued to mutate into. --- Original Message --- From: et <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > >> You want it to sound like these powers were not part of the same set of >> allies; but they were. It was not a double war, it was a single war on >> two fronts. >> LX > > ehh,,, they sure did not surrender together. > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
> You want it to sound like these powers were not part of the same set of > allies; but they were. It was not a double war, it was a single war on > two fronts. > LX ehh,,, they sure did not surrender together. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Franki wrote: Also, I am not a yank, I'm Australian, but IF the US are telling the truth.. then hell yes, we should overthrow saddam.. and for once we should do it BEFORE a tragedy occurs, not after.. To act like that patently violates the UN charter which expressly prohibits that kind of megalomaniacal action - Iraq, USA, Australia all signed up to abide by the UN Charter. Thou shalt not aggress another sovereigh nation. Never! Not even if provoked (which Iraq has not done. Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was because Kuwait was slant drilling under the border to illegally extract Iraqian oil and refused to desist. -- Ron. [Melbourne, Australia] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:47, John Hart wrote: > Keep talking sonny. Oh, that is until the terrorists come and bomb your > insignificant little cities like Aarhus, Copenhagen ...etc. Then, just > maybe THAT will change your mind. Amen. Let's not leave out the possibility of nuclear fallout from another nearby area having been nuked, shall we? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:50 PM > To: Experts > Subject: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > future for MandrakeSoft. > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 14:17, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:39 -0500, Ronald J. Hall wrote: > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:11 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > > > > Totally different situation. The American president and the congress > > > did not want to go to war against Germany because a lot of large US > > > companies were tied up with Germany (mostly with the IG Farben > > > conglomerate). The Jewish emigrants from Germany brought hard evidence > > > about the Nazis. Still the Congress voted not to start war. Only the > > > Jewish community forced the president eventually to decide to enter > > > the war. So much about history. > > > > Whoah...I'm a little confused here. Aren't you mixing up World Wars? I thought > > we dragged our heels (a little) in WW1 but we joined WW2 after a cowardly > > attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor - and we were already assisting the > > Allies in many ways before Pearl Harbor. You'll never make me believe that > > this country did not want to enter WW2 after Pearl Harbor!!! > > In case you don't know it yet: Pearl Harbour was attacked by the > Japaneze. They are the slightly smaller men with (mostly) slanted eyes > and live on some islands across the Pacific Ocean to the West of you. Looks like you need to learn to read as well as learn some history; namely, that your Germany and the Japanese were allies; part of the Axis. > Germans are the average caucasian types living in the middle of > Europe, that is East of you across the Atlantic ocean. > > WWII was - concerning USA - a double war, one to the West with the > Japanese and one in the east against Germany. You want it to sound like these powers were not part of the same set of allies; but they were. It was not a double war, it was a single war on two fronts. > > -- > > > > /\ > > Dark< >Lord > > \/ LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
I have just two more comments on this thread... 1. Germans are not cowards. - They are mostly ashamed of the whole "Hitler" thing and what to guard against it ever happening again. (perhaps they are even paranoid of it happening again.)ie to learn from it. and that is as it should be. - Most people don't realise it, but Germany was Massively outnumbered in WWII, by about 10:1 or more they had a dumbass leader who did not listen to his own generals and flubbed many important decisions. and STILL, they almost won... but in the end, the dumb decisions cost them the war and thats also as it should be.. but just keep in mind, that it took the WHOLE world, 5 years to beat one country the size of Victoria (smallest state in Australia.) 2. Whatever the reasons, the US did join both wars in WWII, and its just as well they did.. because most of you would be speaking Japanese or German now, (assuming you are still alive) had they not joined the war effort. Thats just my take on history.. So saying that "No one voted in the US as world police" is silly, there is no other country capable of doing it right now.. and from a military standpoint, most of the other countries put together don't match the US.. Who else is there??? (Its also possible that the whole US/UN thing could be a global scale "Good Cop Bad Cop" scenario, where the US is the bad cop and the UN the good one.. Its not likely they would tell us if it were the case now is it?? Think about it, it actually fits doesn't it.. Countries like Iraq and leaders like Saddam, rely on the fact that the UN is very slow to do anything, and they forgive many many indescretions, because a collition of countries that all have their own agenda, will always have problems agreeing on anything until some mass violence occurs.. I am hoping that won't happen. but look how long the UN has put up with Iraq breaking their demands,, what is it, 12 years now??? If not for the US pushing the issue, the UN would spend another ten years pointlessly issuing demands to a dictactor who cares not a whistle for them... and eventually something would happen, people would die, and THEN the UN would do something.. Its not their fault.. but that doesn't change the fact that they nearly always respond AFTER the killing has begun or outright hostility is declaired.. One other thing.. with Germany, France and Russia, its possible that the reason they don't want war is because if the economic effect it would have on their countries to support such a war, or because they have agreements in place that would stop if war is declaired.. its possible they know without a doubt what is going on over there, and dont' want to be involved in a war anyway.. for monitary reasons or whatever, again, my point is that we just don't know. So not knowing, we should not be so quick to condemn.. if they are wrong.. it will come out eventually anyway. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lyvim Xaphir Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 3:24 AM To: ExpertMandrake-List Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 08:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > > > scare me to death. > > > > > wobo > > I guess that perhaps is the way America and the uk feel when they > hear your chancellor repetively refer "the german way". Talk about > scarey stuff, deja vu. No joke. > > First of all, this is not the right place to discuss this .. but we had many > > OT-discussions here, why not these... > Yep, might as well get your two euro's in as well. Heh. > > WTF ... You think war is the only way ? You think US-american have the > > right for being world-police ? > No, I don't think war is the only way. As for the US-American (sic) > having the right to be the world police, I don't care much for that > notion either. I am a firm believer that the US should withdraw from > NATO and let the europeans deal with their own issues. Might as well > withdraw from the United Nations as well, as it most certainly as > become as weak as the United League ever was. I agree with your statement about the weakness and neutered nature of the UN. Too many people have died because of their "inaction", which to the antilogic of the left seems to be the heroic thing to do these days. For the same reason however, I feel strongly that many people would die needlessly by the hands of dictators and terrorist regimes if the US did retract, similar to the deaths of those that have occurred already under the stewardship of the UN in the region around and in Iraq by virtue of the imaginary weapons of mass destruction that the liberals say don't exist. In a nutshell, I t
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
This is class!... hats off to the author now just to clean up the monitor after I spit out my dinner laughing. *grin* James On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 16:19, Damian Gatabria wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 18:56, Robert Goshko wrote: > > New flick, coming to a theatre of war soon: > > > >The Bush Administration > > In Association With > > The Other Bush Administration > > Presents > > > > Gulf Wars__ > > E P I S O D E I I > > Clone Of The Attack > > > > See the full movie poster: > > http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/episodeII.jpg > > > > ..on a side note, this just in, Frodo has failed: > > http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/darklord.jpg > > > GEEATT!!! :o) > > ROFL, nice pics! Right into my "funny shit" archive they go. Thanks! > > Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 18:56, Robert Goshko wrote: > New flick, coming to a theatre of war soon: > >The Bush Administration > In Association With > The Other Bush Administration > Presents > > Gulf Wars__ > E P I S O D E I I > Clone Of The Attack > > See the full movie poster: > http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/episodeII.jpg > > ..on a side note, this just in, Frodo has failed: > http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/darklord.jpg GEEATT!!! :o) ROFL, nice pics! Right into my "funny shit" archive they go. Thanks! Damian -- -- I don't want Windows to be only for the 31173. Yes, we've come a long way from all those security holes, virii, and cryptic commands like "Edit textfile.txt" (what in the hell is that supposed to mean?) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Fortunately that happens to include all your text as well; into the stupid category that you conveniently created. On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:46, Alan Wilter Sousa da Silva wrote: > I beg your all pardon but I could not keep my fingers away from the > keyboard after such a stupid things written below. <<<>> -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 09:01, Chuck Burns wrote: > The decision for war is with Saddam. According to Hans Blix, Iraq has NOT > allowed U2 Flyovers, has HIDDEN documents, etc.. THEY HAVE HAD 12 YEARS to > COMPLY with the UN Eunuchs.. Now.. Do you think if we give him more time, do > you REALLY think he will use it? I for one watched Hans Blix for myself on C-span, the whole report. And what I heard (among pronoucements of unaccounted for nerve gas, mustard gas, and various and sundry other items) was a declaration that there was obstruction and uncooperation with the arms inspectors. Hans said that their team was generally displeased with the cooperation from the Iraqi regime. I note that as of today there are quite a few responses in this thread; however NONE of them deal with the facts as you have presented them here. The fact of the matter is that the inspector's roles are NOT TO DISARM IRAQ. Their purpose is to CONFIRM DISARMAMENT by the existing regime; that means that the regime has to WANT to disarm in order for peaceful solutions to take place. That's the only way. If the present regime is unable to either a) present evidence accounting for present whereabouts of all weapons or b) allow those weapons to be found, then it is apparent to all but morons that the regime must be disarmed by force. Without consequences, a UN mandate has no teeth, and therefore a country in violation of said mandate has no accountability to anyone. This seems to be the aim of the "great brainwashed"; those that have been programmed by the socialist propaganda gurgitated by the media. > Or will he get rid of biological and > chemical weapons.. by SELLING them to the highest bidder?? Like terrorists? > Like Mr Blix said, if Iraq wants to disarm, then it will, if it doesnt then it > won't, inspectors or not. If Iraq wanted to disarm, it would SHOW us where > these weapons are hidden, instead of continuing to hide them... Iraq has had > 12 years to come clean, and they have not done so, and you are a fool if you > think that he will do it now. I've sat and watched specials on international TV concerning the struggles of the Kurdish people. There is untold suffering by these people, and it goes completely unreported by the general media. Why? I see children born mutated; I see whole villages wiped out by Saddam's weapons, and then I change channels and I see some moron media maggot on the screen screaming that he needs to see more proof. I see Dr. Khidhir Hamza, a defector scientist from Iraq, on C-Span. Just once. So I go to the website to get the video; no go, not available. So I complained to C-Span on the phone and to the webmaster - "From what I understand, video from C-span programs is supposed to remain on the C-span.org website for 15 days. This particular video is not up on the site, and according to your C-span staff whom I just finished speaking to on the phone, it looks like it never was. Specifically the 9-19 House Armed Services meeting, where Rep Duncan Hunter was interviewing Richard Butler and Dr. Khidhir Hamza, a nuclear physicist defector from Iraq." What did I get? Butkas. Goose egg. I never managed to get the entire broadcast recorded. It was never on the C-span website like all the democratic events actually were, and I never saw it broadcast again. Was I surprised? Not really. The bottom line is that Dr Hamza defected from Iraq and has supplied the government with much valuable information concerning the Iraqi nuclear weapons program, which he was an integral part of. At the time of the weapons inspectors first stint in Iraq, he stated that Iraq was six months away from having a viable nuclear weapon. He stated this in response to a question from Rep Duncan Hunter from California in the 9-19 Armed Services Committee meeting, as I stated above. So if Saddam was six months away from a viable nuclear warhead 12 years ago, where exactly does that put him now, in the face of 12 years of total unaccountability by the UN? The thing that bothers me about leftists is this: they have all emotion and no facts. Most of them source their information primarily from mainstream media, which is without a doubt strongly socialist/communist, and as a result carries a set of very unamerican attitudes. This includes sources in the USA like CNN, MSNBC, CBS; there is hardly ANYBODY out there that even knows who Dr Hamza is, and that is no accident. It's also no accident that while most C-Span tapes can be had for 25 or so bucks, they charge 150.00 for the 9-19 Armed Services Committe recording. Admittedly there are alternative sources out there, like Fox News; but they are brand new when compared to the existing media mafia. And only now coming into their own. I can't get Fox at all, so I'm forced to watch CNN and it's subchannels; and I despise every minute of it. But I still force myself to watch anyway, mainly because it gives me a keen perspective on where exactly the
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
> > For the same reason however, I feel strongly that many people would die > needlessly by the hands of dictators and terrorist regimes if the US did > retract, similar to the deaths of those that have occurred already under ..OH! That guy is going to kill his neighbour! Quick! Let's nuke them both right off the face of the earth! > the stewardship of the UN in the region around and in Iraq by virtue of > the imaginary weapons of mass destruction that the liberals say don't > exist. In a nutshell, I think the withdrawal of the US from the > international scene would involve the deaths of entire populations of > people, since the UN and the EU are going to do the heroic thing and > stand by doing nothing, like they have for the last 12 years in response > to the Iraqi UN violations, for example. Doing nothing is no answer. Trying to impose peace by force is no answer either. If i see two guys having a fist fight, i can try to stop them by getting in the middle, in which case i would probably get beat by both of them. I can try to make them calm down by talking to them, which is of course, useless. I can also sit and watch until it's over. It's your choice. Nations on middle-east are all populated by the same kind of people. Same origins, same look, same race. For some reason (religious, territorial, you name it) they have been killing each other for generations. Nothing will ever stop them from thinking their enemy is the enemy of their gods. Nothing will make them stop killing each other. It's their way of life (way of death?) And right then, there goes the US, messing with them, thinking they can impose peace by way of war. Suit yourselves, guys. That's all i'm gonna say for now. Damian -- -- I don't want Windows to be only for the 31173. Yes, we've come a long way from all those security holes, virii, and cryptic commands like "Edit textfile.txt" (what in the hell is that supposed to mean?) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
> > Except when it comes to people that are not here, like the President of > the United States. Better to talk in insults about people when they > can't respond or see your emails directly, eh? ...Is Bush your uncle or something? -- -- I don't want Windows to be only for the 31173. Yes, we've come a long way from all those security holes, virii, and cryptic commands like "Edit textfile.txt" (what in the hell is that supposed to mean?) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 07:12 pm, Jack Coates wrote: > On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:12, et wrote: > > > Take it offlist or people will start getting booted from the list. I > > > don't have the capability to do it right now, but I will request it if > > > this thread continues too much longer. > > > > don't do that, don't even threaten it. these are very helpful folks that > > feel a need to discuss this. besides, it will go away MUCH quicker if > > nothing like this is ever said > > Tood is right; everyone is perfectly welcome to discuss it all they > want, somewhere else. This is not the place. I think it has already died Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:12, et wrote: > > > > Take it offlist or people will start getting booted from the list. I > > don't have the capability to do it right now, but I will request it if > > this thread continues too much longer. > > > don't do that, don't even threaten it. these are very helpful folks that feel > a need to discuss this. besides, it will go away MUCH quicker if nothing like > this is ever said Tood is right; everyone is perfectly welcome to discuss it all they want, somewhere else. This is not the place. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
Dallam Wych wrote on Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 04:57:55PM + : > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:34:31AM -0500, Sascha Noyes wrote: > > The only reason that he posted privately (by error) is that you have got a > > "reply to" set while discussing on a mailing list. > I don't think so, I think it is a kmail thing. It isn't my mutts > fault that someones mailer can't deferentiate between a list reply > and a personal reply. I gather then that in kmail you don't have an > "r" option for a reply as opposed to "L" for a list reply? You are correct, that is not something that other mailers besides mutt have. However, you are exacerbating the problem by forcibly setting a reply-to in your emails. That's the equivalent of using a quote reply string of "begin %n quotation:". Though it's funny to watch others squirm, you have no basis to complain when they *HONOR* your settings. In your .muttrc, comment out the 'set reply_to' setting, such as this: #set reply_to = ask-yes Blue skies... Todd -- | MandrakeSoft USA | Security is like an onion. It's made | | http://www.mandrakesoft.com | made up of several layers and makes | | http://www.mandrakelinux.com | you cry. --Howard Chu| Mandrake Cooker Devel Version, Kernel 2.4.20-2mdk msg65247/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, January 29 2003 1:43 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *snip* > Consider this case: > A large state such as California had 1,000,000 votes cast. After counting > 750,000 ballots, Bush is leading by 300,000 ballots. California, under the > electoral vote system can stop counting now as those remaining 250,000 > ballots will not change the result. > > I don't think there was a lead that large in any given state, but 50 states > times 10,000 votes a state adds up. Not only that my friend, but, in states where one or the other carried EASILY, they don't even bother to count the mail-in votes, unless they need to. And there-in lies the BIG equation. Mail-in votes are mainly military overseas. And historically, military people vote republican, so I would hazard a guess to say that 80% of the mail-in vote was NOT counted, and OF those 80%, approximately 75% of them COULD have voted for Bush.. throwing off the "popular vote" by quite a lot. -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- Last yeer I kudn't spel Engineer. Now I are won. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 14:34 -0500, logic7 wrote: > According to accounts from different areas of the world, we didn't enter the > war until we were attacked. I've heard this from folks from several european > countries. Our history books would have you believe that we were the heros > of ww2, in fact the consensus seems to be that Russia had the biggest > influencer in the war's outcome. This is at least debatable. 1. Russia had great internal problems and actually not anything worth to be called an army at the beginning. Only later they herded all men together who were able to hold a gun and treated them with Vodka and drugs to let them storm the German strongholds. It was a totally different way of wardare than the American way. Russia would have gone down long before if there wasn't the US ships sailing into Murmansk with all the goods Russia needed to survive. Before USA joined the real action they supported the UK and Russia with millions of tons of material. They even had a support group in England before they actually joined the war. The US was on the verge to stop those convoys because of the increasing danger of the German submarines which acted like wolves in a flock of sheep when they spotted a convoy on the Atlantic. The combined pledges of the UK, Russia and the Jewish lobbyists in congress and the growing public uproar about the German submarines destroying US ships forced USA to join the war in the European theatre. 2. At the end of the war all allied forces would not have accomplished a landing like on D-Day, not even the landing in Sicily without the US troops. Ah, Sicily would not have been so easy without the local Mafia striking a deal with the US, BTW. American and Russian troops met in the east at a small river. According to the history books it was the misunderstanding of the US geographical department thet there were 2 rivers with similar names. They chose the one which was far more to the west, being the reason that a large chunk of land would have been part of West Germany later which now belonged to the East part (until 1989). So the US troops had to crawl back until they came to the other river the Oder-Neisse line which later marked the Iron Curtain. The US marched east and disregarded Berlin in their task to get as far to the east as possible so to mark their area. Due to the geographical glitch they had to march back AND lost Berlin to the Russians. A lot of things would have been different in the time to come if those soldiers had better studied their maps. 3. The Russians gave Germany the first hard blow which was the beginning of the end - the battle of Stalingrad. So each side has it's merits in the outcome of WWII. But one thing is for sure: Only all of them together could end it in due time. Maybe that Russia or the USA would have been able to defeat Germany on their own but it would have been a much longer ordeal for all sides. There were no heroes in WWII on any side. Only dead and survivors. As it is in every war that has been and that will be. My heroes of that time were the people who stood up against the Nazis and were murdered in Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen and all the other places of the unthinkable. My heroes of that time were the people who supported the Jews to escape or gave them a place to hide themselves. Those were the normal German people. An American movie director/producer told a great story which may have changed the view of some US-Americans about the normal Germans. Movie is named "Schindler's List" and tells a story that really happened. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
> > Take it offlist or people will start getting booted from the list. I > don't have the capability to do it right now, but I will request it if > this thread continues too much longer. > don't do that, don't even threaten it. these are very helpful folks that feel a need to discuss this. besides, it will go away MUCH quicker if nothing like this is ever said Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:09, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > Guys, PLEASE! Uncalled for, ugly, and way too knee-jerk U.S.A.-conservative. Oh but there's been absolutely no leftist socialist knee jerking here, has there? Not getting too hot for you, is it, praedor? > Let's please cut the personal name-calling. Except when it comes to people that are not here, like the President of the United States. Better to talk in insults about people when they can't respond or see your emails directly, eh? > Just stick to discussing Bush's > lack of any real education and utter lack of curiosity about anything of > which he is ignorant (this last part about utter lack of curiosity is cribbed > from a newspaper article appearing in a local Indiana paper about a week ago > - - the words are from a CONSERVATIVE journalist who spent time at the White > House with Bush and friends for a while...can't recall his name right now). Or we could discuss your utter lack of talent or principle when it comes to judging Presidents, or the utter lack of principle when it comes to leftist socialists in general. > > Oh for the days when we had a President who actually read BOOKS (comics, > sports pages from newspapers don't count - nor do the stock market pages). I reckon you were sleeping beside him every night as he was being raised from a child, since you act like his evil twin brother. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Last word for me on this topic
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:09 pm, Ronald J. Hall wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:14 pm, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > > of US citizens with contrary views to those of the court-appointed US > > president and his apologists - I count several besides myself in this > > list thus far. Not all Americans respond with reflex support for what the > > current person in the White House says. > > Just to be accurate, there were no less than -3- independent recounts of > the votes after the election - Bush was the winner in all 3 recounts. > Sohe was not "court appointed". Under the rules of our voting system - > whoever takes the most votes in the Electoral college wins. Bush did this. > Gore did have more popular votes - but he did not have more electoral > votes. There are a lot of opinions (for and against) the electoral college > - but it is the way the system is setup legally. It was setup before the > election between Bush and Gore. Only Gore wanted to change the rules AFTER > the election started. I understand that it was the electoral college - but I disdain and wish to see abolished the electoral college. It is a vestige of the attempts by SOME early Framers to restrict who could vote/who had "control" of the political process. No other democracy on the planet uses a system whereby the majority of the citizens can be overruled by cliques of supervoters. The people themselves know what they want more than some misrepresentation of the people. If most people voted against you, by definition, you do not properly represent them and cannot claim to do so. All too often the electoral vote is used to determine "landslide" victories or "mandates". Reagan did this because he overwhelmingly won the ELECTORAL vote. Looking at the popular vote, the actual people's votes themselves, he had no mandate for anything. He didn't get much more than 50% (I seem to recall it being on the order of 54%). That means that nearly half the country voted against you and doesn't support you. That doesn't say mandate or landslide by any stretch. The electoral college is wrong and needs to go. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ODQ41i/6R1B/Yh0RAhiSAJwKTNa+PaAkmP63GK1rQnq8PSp4yACfY14R iHpXepRG8iVoZP70Y1OIIb8= =I0m7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Franki wrote on Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 02:48:37PM +0800 : > get a grip people > I don't know much about iraq.. none of us really do.. and thats the point, Take it offlist or people will start getting booted from the list. I don't have the capability to do it right now, but I will request it if this thread continues too much longer. Blue skies... Todd - -- ...and I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my binaries, and you will know my name is root, when I lay my vengeance upon thee. Mandrake Cooker Devel Version, Kernel 2.4.20-2mdk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ODQ6lp7v05cW2woRAgPsAJ47kz8CPTxfYZTWnWFFVx6Bak4JhACgsjLP L+O2/2BYE5jpzmP1IQPxPC4= =iDy3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:34 pm, logic7 wrote: > According to accounts from different areas of the world, we didn't enter > the war until we were attacked. I've heard this from folks from several > european countries. Our history books would have you believe that we were > the heros of ww2, in fact the consensus seems to be that Russia had the > biggest influencer in the war's outcome. As far as I'm concerned, *anyone* who stood up against the "Axis of Evil" were heros!!! I'm not going to discount Russia's role in the war - certainly just being Germany's 2nd front tied up their resources immensely. I'd have to ask what role they played against the Japanese though? Also, remove Russia from the war and do a "what if"now remove the United States from the war and do a "what if"... which has more impact? Just an interesting exercise... :-) -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? The sun will come outtomorrow, bet your bottom dollar...
On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 06:51, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > How many citizens in Iran and Afghanistan are or were truly happy with the > fundamentalist governments they have or had? I'm sorry to say it gets much worse. In the 1930's and 1940s, in the North West Frontier Province of what is today Pakistan, there was a Puhktoon leader, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, who embodied just about every noble impulse you could ever want in a progressive leader at the time. The British imprisoned him for 15 years, then the new Pakistani Government for another 15 years (altogether more than Nelson Mandela). His "crimes"? Opening schools, liberating women and the peasantry, unifying his people, and worst of all, fighting against colonial rule with dedicated nonviolence (Khan was close to Gandhi). In short the Puhktoon people had a truly enlightened leadership not that long ago but it was smashed to pieces by outsiders. And look at the state of Puhktoons today -- the Taliban, appalling poverty and repression, and more. If you're interested in this hidden and little known history, you may like to check out: http://www.asianreflection.com/twoislamicsoldiers.shtml and http://www.asianreflection.com/khanafghanistan.shtml Damon -- Damon Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wolfgang Bornath wrote on Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 04:49:36AM +0100 : > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > future for MandrakeSoft. > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > the world as we know it. > I listened to the US-Amercan president. Offtopic for this list. Take it offlist. Blue skies... Todd - -- ...and I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my binaries, and you will know my name is root, when I lay my vengeance upon thee. Mandrake Cooker Devel Version, Kernel 2.4.20-2mdk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ODOblp7v05cW2woRAtdPAJ0RktVg3lGM+hobqX5AYYxwOlNNbwCgksMA idgLG7NgDTUEiSPALlnkHkc= =CyMy -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:43 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I would put forth, that if Bush collected the majority of the electoral > votes, that Occam's razor would tell us that he also collected the majority > of the popular votes since the electoral votes are based upon the popular > vote. Have you taken into account that electoral votes per state have not changed, but populations per state have? -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Title: RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? One of the beautiful things about America & the freedoms within - filing for bankruptcy protection. . . . Now that's madness! -Original Message- From: Wolfgang Bornath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:50 PM To: Experts Subject: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a future for MandrakeSoft. After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and the world as we know it. I listened to the US-Amercan president. I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has scare me to death. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you.
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
I would put forth, that if Bush collected the majority of the electoral votes, that Occam's razor would tell us that he also collected the majority of the popular votes since the electoral votes are based upon the popular vote. Consider this case: A large state such as California had 1,000,000 votes cast. After counting 750,000 ballots, Bush is leading by 300,000 ballots. California, under the electoral vote system can stop counting now as those remaining 250,000 ballots will not change the result. I don't think there was a lead that large in any given state, but 50 states times 10,000 votes a state adds up. Don't pick apart the specifics of that example, look at the general case. The electoral system is designed so that as soon as one person's lead is greater than the amount of remaining ballots counting can cease, so speed election results. Considering the logistics of counting up to 2 billion ballots, I'm sure you all can understand the logic behind this. Cliffs notes: Under the electoral system, you cannot compare popular votes as all ballots are not counted. >Gore did >have more popular votes - but he did not have more electoral votes. There are >a lot of opinions (for and against) the electoral college - but it is the way >the system is setup legally. It was setup before the election between Bush >and Gore. Only Gore wanted to change the rules AFTER the election started. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 06:29, Mark Weaver wrote: > and you know this how? please...proof of this would be interesting. Check the mainstream human rights websites :-) Even if American personal are not directly involved, they know full well what happens when they hand prisoners over to their comrades in other countries for "further questioning". Damon -- Damon Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
According to accounts from different areas of the world, we didn't enter the war until we were attacked. I've heard this from folks from several european countries. Our history books would have you believe that we were the heros of ww2, in fact the consensus seems to be that Russia had the biggest influencer in the war's outcome. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ronald J. Hall Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:11 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Totally different situation. The American president and the congress > did not want to go to war against Germany because a lot of large US > companies were tied up with Germany (mostly with the IG Farben > conglomerate). The Jewish emigrants from Germany brought hard evidence > about the Nazis. Still the Congress voted not to start war. Only the > Jewish community forced the president eventually to decide to enter > the war. So much about history. Whoah...I'm a little confused here. Aren't you mixing up World Wars? I thought we dragged our heels (a little) in WW1 but we joined WW2 after a cowardly attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor - and we were already assisting the Allies in many ways before Pearl Harbor. You'll never make me believe that this country did not want to enter WW2 after Pearl Harbor!!! -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 03:54, Chuck Burns wrote: > We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD to > ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries with > NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them alone, > so, of course we didn't sign it. Chuck, where's your evidence? Please demonstrate with scientific facts that 3rd world countries emit more climate change emissions per capita than 1st world countries. Big problem: you can't, because you're wrong. The real story is that the U.S. acted to weaken the Kyoto protocol when it was being negotiated, then pulled out at the last minute. I find it difficult to believe the U.S. elite who were behind this ruse actually love their kids and grand kids in any kind of meaningful way. Everyone is going to have to face the consequences of climate change. Damon -- Damon Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 08:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > > > scare me to death. > > > > > wobo > > I guess that perhaps is the way America and the uk feel when they > hear your chancellor repetively refer "the german way". Talk about > scarey stuff, deja vu. No joke. > > First of all, this is not the right place to discuss this .. but we had many > > OT-discussions here, why not these... > Yep, might as well get your two euro's in as well. Heh. > > WTF ... You think war is the only way ? You think US-american have the > > right for being world-police ? > No, I don't think war is the only way. As for the US-American (sic) > having the right to be the world police, I don't care much for that > notion either. I am a firm believer that the US should withdraw from > NATO and let the europeans deal with their own issues. Might as well > withdraw from the United Nations as well, as it most certainly as > become as weak as the United League ever was. I agree with your statement about the weakness and neutered nature of the UN. Too many people have died because of their "inaction", which to the antilogic of the left seems to be the heroic thing to do these days. For the same reason however, I feel strongly that many people would die needlessly by the hands of dictators and terrorist regimes if the US did retract, similar to the deaths of those that have occurred already under the stewardship of the UN in the region around and in Iraq by virtue of the imaginary weapons of mass destruction that the liberals say don't exist. In a nutshell, I think the withdrawal of the US from the international scene would involve the deaths of entire populations of people, since the UN and the EU are going to do the heroic thing and stand by doing nothing, like they have for the last 12 years in response to the Iraqi UN violations, for example. > > > Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > > > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > > > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > > > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to > > > it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the > > > ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the > > > Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely > > > pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like > > > maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish > > > this dance. > Well, I understand you are mad..as you should be. Perhaps you wish > you had put things a bit more eloquently :) Maybe if it was an eloquent thread, perhaps. But the start of this thread is one of the most moronic I've ever seen, birthed by me-too liberal and socialist attitudes, bathed in emotion, and accompanied by a total lack of regard for factual or historical information. They are up there in Oz with the tin man and the flying monkeys looking for a brain. Maybe they'll bump into Barbara Streisand while she quotes Shakespeare or party on with another bogus CNN broadcast while Sean Penn or Susan Sarandon serves the drinks. In the meantime I don't mind trading insult for insult. By the same token I'm also willing to trade fact for fact, though that opportunity has been vanishingly small, as it always is when dealing with the left. > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed what > > people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to understand > > whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! > I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor > just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? > Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. > > -- > Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 > 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:17 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > In case you don't know it yet: Pearl Harbour was attacked by the > Japaneze. They are the slightly smaller men with (mostly) slanted eyes > and live on some islands across the Pacific Ocean to the West of you. Thats exactly what I said in my first reply. Did you not read it? and... I'm perfectly aware of where Japan is... geographically and historically. > Germans are the average caucasian types living in the middle of > Europe, that is East of you across the Atlantic ocean. Thanks for reminding me of what I've known for quite some time (about 30 years). > WWII was - concerning USA - a double war, one to the West with the > Japanese and one in the east against Germany. Again, thanks for reminding me of something I learned 30 years ago. > I was talking about the war against the Germans which took place in > Europe, the next continent you find if you start from the Eastcoast > over the big water. You can stop the condescending attitude just any 'ole time partner. > Of course USA went to war against the Japanese right after their raid > on Pearl Harbour. Any nation would have. Even those allegedly > cowardice Germans. I'm glad we agree on something. (I'm not so sure about Germans=cowards though!) -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:39 -0500, Ronald J. Hall wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:11 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > > Totally different situation. The American president and the congress > > did not want to go to war against Germany because a lot of large US > > companies were tied up with Germany (mostly with the IG Farben > > conglomerate). The Jewish emigrants from Germany brought hard evidence > > about the Nazis. Still the Congress voted not to start war. Only the > > Jewish community forced the president eventually to decide to enter > > the war. So much about history. > > Whoah...I'm a little confused here. Aren't you mixing up World Wars? I thought > we dragged our heels (a little) in WW1 but we joined WW2 after a cowardly > attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor - and we were already assisting the > Allies in many ways before Pearl Harbor. You'll never make me believe that > this country did not want to enter WW2 after Pearl Harbor!!! In case you don't know it yet: Pearl Harbour was attacked by the Japaneze. They are the slightly smaller men with (mostly) slanted eyes and live on some islands across the Pacific Ocean to the West of you. Germans are the average caucasian types living in the middle of Europe, that is East of you across the Atlantic ocean. WWII was - concerning USA - a double war, one to the West with the Japanese and one in the east against Germany. I was talking about the war against the Germans which took place in Europe, the next continent you find if you start from the Eastcoast over the big water. Of course USA went to war against the Japanese right after their raid on Pearl Harbour. Any nation would have. Even those allegedly cowardice Germans. But concerning the so called European War the USA were really dragging their feet for a long time. There were too many US companies supporting Hitler and his industry (mainly rubber and chemicals). So the anti-war faction was heavily supported by those lobbyists of the industry. Read the documentations and the history books and learn how it really was. I assure you a very surprising story. wobo > -- > > /\ > Dark< >Lord > \/ > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:14 pm, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > of US citizens with contrary views to those of the court-appointed US > president and his apologists - I count several besides myself in this list > thus far. Not all Americans respond with reflex support for what the > current person in the White House says. Just to be accurate, there were no less than -3- independent recounts of the votes after the election - Bush was the winner in all 3 recounts. Sohe was not "court appointed". Under the rules of our voting system - whoever takes the most votes in the Electoral college wins. Bush did this. Gore did have more popular votes - but he did not have more electoral votes. There are a lot of opinions (for and against) the electoral college - but it is the way the system is setup legally. It was setup before the election between Bush and Gore. Only Gore wanted to change the rules AFTER the election started. -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
New flick, coming to a theatre of war soon: The Bush Administration In Association With The Other Bush Administration Presents Gulf Wars__ E P I S O D E I I Clone Of The Attack See the full movie poster: http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/episodeII.jpg ..on a side note, this just in, Frodo has failed: http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/darklord.jpg -- ...Rob -- A closed mouth gathers no foot. = Robert Goshko Axis Computer Consulting Services, Inc President Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada http://www.axis-dev.ca/ Supporting the Revolution In Your World = Registered Linux User #260513GNU/Linux i686 2.4.20-2mdk-725ca 11:48am up 4:20, 5 users, load average: 1.28, 1.23, 1.20 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:11 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Totally different situation. The American president and the congress > did not want to go to war against Germany because a lot of large US > companies were tied up with Germany (mostly with the IG Farben > conglomerate). The Jewish emigrants from Germany brought hard evidence > about the Nazis. Still the Congress voted not to start war. Only the > Jewish community forced the president eventually to decide to enter > the war. So much about history. Whoah...I'm a little confused here. Aren't you mixing up World Wars? I thought we dragged our heels (a little) in WW1 but we joined WW2 after a cowardly attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor - and we were already assisting the Allies in many ways before Pearl Harbor. You'll never make me believe that this country did not want to enter WW2 after Pearl Harbor!!! -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? The sun will come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:45 pm, Franki wrote: [...] > believe it or not.. often a dictator is better economically then a > democracy (at least initially).. simply because the leader need not worry > about public opinion.. but that certainly doesn't make it right... Yah, one example is Pakistan. Musharrif is essentially a dictator but the alternative is likely MUCH worse (good likelihood that Moslem extremists would gain a considerable level of power). Not good - it just produces another dangerous regime to worry about and cause problems for its neighbors. Until conditions for average Pakistani's improve to the point of squelching any desire to vote for religious extremists, I would have to say that the current nondemocratic situation is best overall (for the Pakistani's themselves, though they may not think so right now, and the world). How many citizens in Iran and Afghanistan are or were truly happy with the fundamentalist governments they have or had? I'd wager that the women are particularly less than pleased. Such situations invariably favor the poorly educated as such systems give them power that they wouldn't have. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBSr1i/6R1B/Yh0RArdwAKCf8DZTtfWPxz60zbjZBJD5v/241ACfYSYf T4Q1JLb0fIPzMrWFER32ET8= =1Fmc -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
interestingly enough, the newbie list has been on topic all night... go figure :-) And what is democratic about having your leader appointed by a foreign authority, anyhow? Didn't they get all the leaders of the various tribes together and let them elect one to lead??? Short of a dictator, what else could they do??? Dictators are a better bet than democracy, at least from an economic standpoint. The people of the country suffer, but you can't make an omelet (i.e. get access to cheap Oil in this case) without breaking a few eggs (i.e. murdering millions of civilians.) While we're learning from history, see U.S. involvement in Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador for some examples. I think most of the dictators were because its well known that you are more likely to win a war if you have an inside advantage... and that usually results in a dictator at the end of it all... Its definately wrong, The US has scored very badly in the past, but its history.. And I hope like hell they learn from it. believe it or not.. often a dictator is better economically then a democracy (at least initially).. simply because the leader need not worry about public opinion.. but that certainly doesn't make it right... rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mick Szucs Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 1:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:18, Franki wrote: > maybe they are learning.. albiet slowly.. > > They did not put a dictator in charge of afganistan... they tried to start a > democracy if memory serves... Poor wording on my part - I was referring to the Millions of dollars in aid, weapons and training provided to Al Queda in the 80s, and the millions of dollars that Dubya's administration gave to the Taliban in 2001. And what is democratic about having your leader appointed by a foreign authority, anyhow? > I can only assume they would do the same in Iraq.. if not because they > learned from history. then because there is no military power in iraq now > that the US could aid in taking power.. Saddam saw to that... Dictators are a better bet than democracy, at least from an economic standpoint. The people of the country suffer, but you can't make an omelet (i.e. get access to cheap Oil in this case) without breaking a few eggs (i.e. murdering millions of civilians.) While we're learning from history, see U.S. involvement in Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador for some examples. Wow - I've not yet seen a single message related to Mandrake on here since I joined. I take that as an encouraging sign, the more dialog on these issues, the better off we all will be. My $.03, now. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:24 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I wish you people would quit cluttering my mailbox with all this crap. > There are other lists where this would be appropriate. > > "Franki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote .. > > > first of all... repeat after me. "FRANKI IS NOT AN AMERICAN" :-) > > > > I'm an Aussie... [...] Heh. Just joining the list? At least you got in 'early'. Anyone who fires up the email latter in the day will be barraged. Better and more extensive than spam! At least it is an easy filter rule based on subject line. It will die down eventually. Perhaps as soon as one of the more inflammatory individuals needs help with a problem on their system and have to accept the aid of their new-found list "enemy". - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBAv1i/6R1B/Yh0RAo2fAJ9cfFf0qyt/ccWpchj555xz+4YvGgCeIKet eX3bo54lWyQJdTj4fMmMIkQ= =dc74 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:23 pm, Mark Weaver wrote: > Wolfgang Bornath wrote: [...] > > Last polls in USA show that nearly half of the American people don't > > want war against Iraq in any case. In Germany our chancellor wouldn't > > get away with doing something like that without a large majority on > > his side. And he'd never get that majority. [...] > > I sincerely wish that it was that way here. sadly, it would appear that > america's people, for better or worse, are along for the ride. It is actually something like 30-ish% support going in without evidence, thus most are against this notion, while 70-ish% are for it WITH proof. So far, no proof, just the words, "you have to trust me on this". Doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBAT1i/6R1B/Yh0RAjoeAKCkVPDEGo4tOxdWPXxfEkc54sCVrwCfTfup oLrqm25Fld2QyKih0Q2RbxI= =amaI -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Sascha Noyes wrote: On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:54 am, Chuck Burns wrote: On Wed, January 29 2003 8:43 am, tarvid wrote: *snip* Bush chooses internationalism when it suits him. He scuttled Kyoto, ABM and the Biological weapons protocols and ignores the Viena and Geneva conventions. So, you think implementing a system that protects US citizens from ICMBs is a bad thing? Come down off your high horse. He did not say that it was a bad thing, he stated simply that this constitutes a breach of the ABM treaty. Also, when was the last time we broke the Geneva convention? The last war was in Desert Storm, and did we torture any of those Iraqi soldiers that surrendered without firing a shot? No, I don't think we did. We have ALWAYS treated enemy soldiers as well, or better, than the Geneva convention states, EVEN when our enemies did not, such as was the case in Vietnam, where our troops were torturted with electric shock. The USA government torture(d/s) many of the detainees from the war in Afghanistan. They do this with the justification that it is necessary in order to prevent further attacks on the USA, and that these people are not really prisoners of war anyway. (I'll leave it to you to decide whether someone captured in the War in Afghanistan is a prisoner of war or not.) and you know this how? please...proof of this would be interesting. -- Mark --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 & 9.0 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:18, Franki wrote: > maybe they are learning.. albiet slowly.. > > They did not put a dictator in charge of afganistan... they tried to start a > democracy if memory serves... Poor wording on my part - I was referring to the Millions of dollars in aid, weapons and training provided to Al Queda in the 80s, and the millions of dollars that Dubya's administration gave to the Taliban in 2001. And what is democratic about having your leader appointed by a foreign authority, anyhow? > I can only assume they would do the same in Iraq.. if not because they > learned from history. then because there is no military power in iraq now > that the US could aid in taking power.. Saddam saw to that... Dictators are a better bet than democracy, at least from an economic standpoint. The people of the country suffer, but you can't make an omelet (i.e. get access to cheap Oil in this case) without breaking a few eggs (i.e. murdering millions of civilians.) While we're learning from history, see U.S. involvement in Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador for some examples. Wow - I've not yet seen a single message related to Mandrake on here since I joined. I take that as an encouraging sign, the more dialog on these issues, the better off we all will be. My $.03, now. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
chill out guys, I like a heated discussion as much as the next guy, but when it degenerates to name calling and personal attacks, its not a discussion anymore.. its childish namecalling.. and I stopped doing that when I turned 27 some years back.. :-) rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lyvim Xaphir Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 1:14 AM To: ExpertMandrake-List Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:14, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > > Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. Of course you don't. > > They swallow without even looking. > > Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it > up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? You tell me; you're the one that's full of shit. > wobo > -- LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Wolfgang Bornath wrote: On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:18 +, Dallam Wych wrote: I guess that perhaps is the way America and the uk feel when they hear your chancellor repetively refer "the german way". Talk about scarey stuff, deja vu. When did Mr. Schroeder say something like "the German way"? And when did he say something that makes you look back to the Nazi era? It would be a déjà-vu if he'd side up with Mr. Bush. The we'd really be concerned. BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your statement I doubt that you have any clue. No, I don't think war is the only way. As for the US-American (sic) having the right to be the world police, I don't care much for that notion either. I am a firm believer that the US should withdraw from NATO and let the europeans deal with their own issues. Might as well withdraw from the United Nations as well, as it most certainly as become as weak as the United League ever was. So that USA would not have to pay their debts to the UN? A dept which is quite as large as some 3rd world country's debt with the BIG 7. So USA leaves NATO, so what? I think USA would suffer more than Europe from that. Meanwhile most NATO tasks are fulfilled by European soldiers because USA has already drawn nost of their military our of the current NATO involvements. And guess who is the country with the highest financial support of NATO? Read it on the NATO sites. I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. Not on the Anti-Americanism but on the Anti-War issue. That is a big difference! Although I must confess that since Mr. Bush lives in the White House we may have developped some resentments. Since WWII Germany has a very strong feeling against any military involvement. As we have a more democratic way of dealing with our chancellor (i.e. he has far less political power than your president) he has to bend to the peoples will. Last polls in USA show that nearly half of the American people don't want war against Iraq in any case. In Germany our chancellor wouldn't get away with doing something like that without a large majority on his side. And he'd never get that majority. wobo wobo, I sincerely wish that it was that way here. sadly, it would appear that america's people, for better or worse, are along for the ride. -- Mark --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 & 9.0 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 18:23, Dallam Wych wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +0100, Steffen Barszus wrote: > > Sorry that I did not checked if your reply-to header is set right. I know > > it is bad behavior and you would know it that I know it after reading my > > sig. > > > > > > So I need to update kmail ;) . My intend was to quote the text you have > > answered too. Sorry for that. > > No problem. > > > Thanks for your judge about me > > Actually, it isn't a judgement about you at all. This is the problem > with discussing politics, religion, etc...people (myself included) > get very passionate about what they believe and say things that > really don't need to be said. > I apologize to you for the last comment, it was totally uncalled > for. Thanks :-) And yes we all have to calm down a lot. We have different socialization and different meanings. And we should be glad we are able to discuss it here (or elsewhere). -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:32 am, Sascha Noyes wrote: > The terms "socialist" and "liberal" are mutually exclusive. > > Sascha Noyes so that is your final say on that? or how do you realy feel? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:57 am, Alfredo C. López wrote: > El Mié 29 Ene 2003 11:54, Chuck Burns escribió: > > We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK > > GOOD to ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world > > countries with NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty > > left them alone, so, of course we didn't sign it. > > That crap men. the 3rd world countries didn't have industries. so > is very difficult to polute in that way > The exxon valdez was and american bote right? This sort of argument is erroneous for many basic reasons. A factory in a 3rd World Nation will likely pollute like crazy relative to any developed nation's factories, but there is only one or two such factories and so many fewer citizens doing their own damage. Then you have the US with many MANY factories/power plants, all putting out much less pollution PER PLANT but the sheer number of plants and the number of people doing their own polluting (a lot less than an INDIVIDUAL citizen of a 3rd World Nation) adds up to MUCH more pollution overall than a given 3rd World Nation could even aspire to produce. A lot of a little can easily add up to more than a little of a lot. And in this case, it does. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OA2G1i/6R1B/Yh0RAgBlAJ4m73JGkVCe0wjU+n1tqZXjTL8WHgCeKd6y IkzCrB6w9USnd4Zu4qZWvdI= =Oyf6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
I wish you people would quit cluttering my mailbox with all this crap. There are other lists where this would be appropriate. "Franki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote .. > first of all... repeat after me. "FRANKI IS NOT AN AMERICAN" :-) > > I'm an Aussie... > > Second.. the US must be spending what ?? 5-10 millian a day at the very > least, probably a good deal more, putting all that military might around > iraq... and its been going on for a very long time... > > That sort of money would take along time to get recompensed by iraq oil, > particularly since the US would still have to pay for it anyway, and would > have no direct control over it... as with Kuwait > > Yes... presidents have looked the other way many times in the past.. maybe > its time to stop that??? > > Tibet is a good example to me is Tibet.. the chinese have all but totally > crushed the wonderous culture of that country.. but in the 50's no one > lifted a damn finger to stop them.. and thats not just the US.. thats > everybody.. > > History is full of that as well.. maybe its time to stick up for the > underdogs and try and make the whole world a democracy in some form or > another > > I actually agree with the observation made earlier that Germany has a much > more business like government then most other countries.. and I agree that > from an economical perspective,, thats a really good thing.. from a > military perspective, its a bad thing, because the people that don't know > all the facts, can overrule the ones that do.. > > but overall I wish australia was run the same way... in Australia, our > politicial parties spend all their time attacking each others policies > instead of promoting the merits of their own policies .. > > If I had two wishes for the perfect democracy.. I would ask that a law > be > put in place where political parties MUST NOT attack their opposition at > ever step and must instead promote the benefits of their own party and > policies instead of relying on attaching everyone elses.. > The other wish would be that issues of a military nature should be discussed > by a commitee of the smartest people in the country, not the most popular.. > intellegence and knowledge should be the prerequsite to being on that > commitee... The very smartest minds in the country... regardless of their > industry or occupation. > > And that commitee should have the ability to veto the head of state in > issues of a military nature, and must have the ability to propose and act > on > actions decided upon by the commitee.. > > That way, the best minds are the ones making the important decisions, not > politicians.. > > rgds > > Franki > > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alfredo C. López > Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:34 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > Hi! > > I'm a guy living in Argentina, far away from the bullets. > > El Mié 29 Ene 2003 10:23, Franki escribió: > > You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without > fighting... > > (assuming he is guilty.) > > > > what are the alternatives.??? > > There are always alternatives. May be leave the iraquies alone > Like a lot of US presidents did with Latin American in the past. > It's known that in the past there were here a lot of Military presidents > that > didn't respect human rights and the us presidents never took action against > them. > More to say in Chile with President Alende... US was involve in the > killing of Alende trough this guy called Kissinger. And it was a president > voted by the people. And US supported the military president that come > after > that. Almost the same happend here in Argentina and Brasil. > So... Please excuse me if I dont believe in your president. I don't trust > anymore in a president that have to hide "evidence" in the behave of the > people. Here in Argentina we suffer the doctrine of "national security" > (of > course... with the support of the US). > So... to me the only explanation to the action taken by Bush > administration is about oil and money. Nothing else. there no comunist > to > fight this time. > > > > > > I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know > > enough as civilians to make the distinction... > > That is very sad to hear. And coming from an american, is very > disappointing. > I think that the civilians need to know so they can control what rule > you. > M
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:14, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > > Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. Of course you don't. > > They swallow without even looking. > > Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it > up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? You tell me; you're the one that's full of shit. > wobo > -- LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:46 am, Alan Wilter Sousa da Silva wrote: > I beg your all pardon but I could not keep my fingers away from the > keyboard after such a stupid things written below. [...] > Pardon Praedor, but I could not help myself considering this subject over. > However I shall not write anymore about it. Heh! I'm as guilty as you are in writing on the subject. It is immensely difficult to hold the tongue (fingers?) when certain things are stated. Plus, I wanted to make sure that within the USA chorus there were a number of US citizens with contrary views to those of the court-appointed US president and his apologists - I count several besides myself in this list thus far. Not all Americans respond with reflex support for what the current person in the White House says. I just "loved" some of his proposals: the one where he mentions saving the forests from being ravaged by fires - HAH! That is newspeak for "give full access to timber companies so they can "thin" the trees, particularly that nasty old-growth garbage"...totally ignoring the fact that controlled burning is superior to cutting timber in this regard. Amazing how the extensive (one-time) forests of the North American continent managed to exist at all for so many thousands of years without such protectors as Bush Republicans being there to cut it all to shreds for "its own good". His "give the elderly access to drug benefits" means giving up their long-time doctors and joining a least-common-denominator HMO where any treatment that actually may extend/save lives is deemed "experimental" and thus not covered. You get the old-fashioned, largely ineffective treatments of yesteryear because they are cheaper. Period. Oh, and the drug benefit still costs the seniors an arm - somewhat better than an arm-and-a-leg as it is now. His "clear skies" initiative to clean up the air...means allowing power plants to produce MORE pollution and NOT add new/improved scrubbers. It means NOT requiring imminently doable mandated increases in CAFE standards for ALL cars/trucks. He had the audacity to mention fuel-cell automobile development too (apparently he couldn't recall the term "fuel-cell" and used a long, drawn-out description of using hydrogen for fuel and producing just water) - this after he tore the Gore campaign apart for advocating fuel-cell and hybrid vehicles, referring to them as jokes instead of real useful technologies. His proposal to ban ALL human cloning. Not just reproductive cloning, which you could possibly get some broad agreement on, but ALL cloning. This means that top-notch scientists will leave the US (if such a ban comes to pass - I happen to know some already are or are planning to) because all the real research will be conducted in Great Britain, France, and other European and Asian countries (Japan and China in particular) - don't know about Germany. This isn't about stopping someone from cloning themselves to make a baby (big deal), it is about stopping the creation of cures for many many diseases. It means a ban on cloning human stem cell lines (therapeutic cloning which could "fix" damaged neural tissue in epileptics, stroke victims, etc, correct heart tissue damage due to heart attack, prevent tissue engineering work targetted at growing new replacement organs). The list goes on. It is all tied to his lack of ability to understand anything having to do with science, and his total lack of curiosity about anything he doesn't currently understand. He just wants to bury his face in a bible and quit thinking. His mantra for "jumpstarting" the US economy is to give ever greater tax cuts to the wealthiest individuals, period, inspit of the fact that many of the RICHEST (Including the anti-christ Bill Gates) are against it. Who better to speak for the wealthy than Bill Gates? Bah! He's an idiot and if allowed to follow his path with some good blocking from the Senate minority, he will stumble as he must and be replaced next term. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OAwr1i/6R1B/Yh0RAr0vAKCVEixK2JQGolXKK3auVbp91TxnMgCeL1vs ogfc5b3/yUwU9WgYfOdnt5I= =4DrQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
maybe they are learning.. albiet slowly.. They did not put a dictator in charge of afganistan... they tried to start a democracy if memory serves... it doesn't seem to be working to well so far, but thats what they did.. I can only assume they would do the same in Iraq.. if not because they learned from history. then because there is no military power in iraq now that the US could aid in taking power.. Saddam saw to that... rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mick Szucs Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:29, Franki wrote: > Those who do not heed the past are destined to repeat it.. so he is at least > making an effort to stop something before it happens now.. history is full > of cases where no action was taken till it was too late.. who knows, he > might actually stop the next 9/11, but he will get no praise for it.. but if > he went and gained retribution AFTER the act had taken place, he'd be called > an American hero or words to that effect.. just as he did with 9/11 and > Afghanistan... He would probably rather be a hero then an unremembered > nobody.. but still he is making an effort to stop something happening BEFORE > it kills a heap of people.. Gotta jump in here and point out that a long line of American interventions into the affairs of sovereign nations show that American foreign policy is certainly not "heeding the past" today. Long line of friendly dictators installed by Americans that turn into enemies. The "enemy of my enemy" approach doesn't seem to work out so well, either. Shah in Iran, Pinochet in Chile, Noriega in Panama, Al Queda and then the Taliban in Afganistan, Saddam in Iraq .. who's going to be added to this list when Saddam falls? I think you'd need to be quite ignorant of history to be willing to risk a repeat performance here.. My $.02. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +0100, Steffen Barszus wrote: > Sorry that I did not checked if your reply-to header is set right. I know it > is bad behavior and you would know it that I know it after reading my sig. > So I need to update kmail ;) . My intend was to quote the text you have > answered too. Sorry for that. No problem. > Thanks for your judge about me Actually, it isn't a judgement about you at all. This is the problem with discussing politics, religion, etc...people (myself included) get very passionate about what they believe and say things that really don't need to be said. I apologize to you for the last comment, it was totally uncalled for. -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
first of all... repeat after me. "FRANKI IS NOT AN AMERICAN" :-) I'm an Aussie... Second.. the US must be spending what ?? 5-10 millian a day at the very least, probably a good deal more, putting all that military might around iraq... and its been going on for a very long time... That sort of money would take along time to get recompensed by iraq oil, particularly since the US would still have to pay for it anyway, and would have no direct control over it... as with Kuwait Yes... presidents have looked the other way many times in the past.. maybe its time to stop that??? Tibet is a good example to me is Tibet.. the chinese have all but totally crushed the wonderous culture of that country.. but in the 50's no one lifted a damn finger to stop them.. and thats not just the US.. thats everybody.. History is full of that as well.. maybe its time to stick up for the underdogs and try and make the whole world a democracy in some form or another I actually agree with the observation made earlier that Germany has a much more business like government then most other countries.. and I agree that from an economical perspective,, thats a really good thing.. from a military perspective, its a bad thing, because the people that don't know all the facts, can overrule the ones that do.. but overall I wish australia was run the same way... in Australia, our politicial parties spend all their time attacking each others policies instead of promoting the merits of their own policies .. If I had two wishes for the perfect democracy.. I would ask that a law be put in place where political parties MUST NOT attack their opposition at ever step and must instead promote the benefits of their own party and policies instead of relying on attaching everyone elses.. The other wish would be that issues of a military nature should be discussed by a commitee of the smartest people in the country, not the most popular.. intellegence and knowledge should be the prerequsite to being on that commitee... The very smartest minds in the country... regardless of their industry or occupation. And that commitee should have the ability to veto the head of state in issues of a military nature, and must have the ability to propose and act on actions decided upon by the commitee.. That way, the best minds are the ones making the important decisions, not politicians.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alfredo C. López Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Hi! I'm a guy living in Argentina, far away from the bullets. El Mié 29 Ene 2003 10:23, Franki escribió: > You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without fighting... > (assuming he is guilty.) > > what are the alternatives.??? There are always alternatives. May be leave the iraquies alone Like a lot of US presidents did with Latin American in the past. It's known that in the past there were here a lot of Military presidents that didn't respect human rights and the us presidents never took action against them. More to say in Chile with President Alende... US was involve in the killing of Alende trough this guy called Kissinger. And it was a president voted by the people. And US supported the military president that come after that. Almost the same happend here in Argentina and Brasil. So... Please excuse me if I dont believe in your president. I don't trust anymore in a president that have to hide "evidence" in the behave of the people. Here in Argentina we suffer the doctrine of "national security" (of course... with the support of the US). So... to me the only explanation to the action taken by Bush administration is about oil and money. Nothing else. there no comunist to fight this time. > > I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know > enough as civilians to make the distinction... That is very sad to hear. And coming from an american, is very disappointing. I think that the civilians need to know so they can control what rule you. My two cents. > > > > rgds > > Franki > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 8:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > > democracy... > > anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own > > generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had > > no > > > real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. > >
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 17:08, Dallam Wych wrote: > Mr. Barszus, > Please refrain from posting privately on a mailing list, it really > isn't proper netiquette. > Sorry that I did not checked if your reply-to header is set right. I know it is bad behavior and you would know it that I know it after reading my sig. > - Forwarded message from Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - > > > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:21 +0100 > > From: Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 14:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you > > > > informed what people here in germany think ? How much are you > > > > interested to understand whats going on in minds here ? I would say > > > > THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! > > Your quoting is wrong, I didn't write this...you did. So I need to update kmail ;) . My intend was to quote the text you have answered too. Sorry for that. > This will be my last post in regards to this thread. Perhaps I am > wrong and maybe someone will correct me (please do)...but was it > Mark Twain who said that you can't argue with fools, you will always > lose? Thanks for your judge about me -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
El Mié 29 Ene 2003 11:54, Chuck Burns escribió: > We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD > to ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries > with NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them > alone, so, of course we didn't sign it. That crap men. the 3rd world countries didn't have industries. so is very difficult to polute in that way The exxon valdez was and american bote right? -- = Lic. Alfredo Carlos López INIFTA - UNLP Phone: +54-221-425 7430 Instituto de InvestigacionesFax: +54-221-425 4642 Fisicoquímicas Teórica y Aplicada. Suc. 4 C.C. 16 1900 La Plata, Argentina Calle 68 nro.74 (e118/119) Dto. 15Phone: +54-221-423 6240 1900 La Plata, Argentina Cell-Phone: +54-221-(15) 455 0141 = "One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:29, Franki wrote: > Those who do not heed the past are destined to repeat it.. so he is at least > making an effort to stop something before it happens now.. history is full > of cases where no action was taken till it was too late.. who knows, he > might actually stop the next 9/11, but he will get no praise for it.. but if > he went and gained retribution AFTER the act had taken place, he'd be called > an American hero or words to that effect.. just as he did with 9/11 and > Afghanistan... He would probably rather be a hero then an unremembered > nobody.. but still he is making an effort to stop something happening BEFORE > it kills a heap of people.. Gotta jump in here and point out that a long line of American interventions into the affairs of sovereign nations show that American foreign policy is certainly not "heeding the past" today. Long line of friendly dictators installed by Americans that turn into enemies. The "enemy of my enemy" approach doesn't seem to work out so well, either. Shah in Iran, Pinochet in Chile, Noriega in Panama, Al Queda and then the Taliban in Afganistan, Saddam in Iraq .. who's going to be added to this list when Saddam falls? I think you'd need to be quite ignorant of history to be willing to risk a repeat performance here.. My $.02. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:34:31AM -0500, Sascha Noyes wrote: > The only reason that he posted privately (by error) is that you have got a > "reply to" set while discussing on a mailing list. > Sorry, but that is your fault. I don't think so, I think it is a kmail thing. It isn't my mutts fault that someones mailer can't deferentiate between a list reply and a personal reply. I gather then that in kmail you don't have an "r" option for a reply as opposed to "L" for a list reply? -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
I beg your all pardon but I could not keep my fingers away from the keyboard after such a stupid things written below. First, Bush (and I put him apart from USA because America, despite elected him, is greater than that asshole) never signed Kyoto Protocol, but USA (Clinton) had previously signed an Intention Protocol. Kyoto was just to formalise what many nation had agreed before, including Europe, China and Russia, the other big polluters. BTW, American democracy is interesting since Al Gore had more votes than Bush and we shall never know what happen at Jeb Bush's farm (I mean, Florida). Second, despite all technology today, still is USA the biggest, worst, very far, ever polluting country in all time of Human History. This is a fact. USA is responsible by 25% of the world pollution and has <5% of world population. Bush said that a recession would be worst to the world than pollution. But if we do not have world? If every human on Earth lived as an American it would be necessary 4 Earths to sustain us. Nowadays we are consuming 1.2 Earth, so, we are destroying our world. I regret that Bush Jr. represents such a great people and nation, but do you know which American president had the worst I.Q.? Bush father, who were now surpassed by his son. Petroleum will finish someday not far from today, and then, who will be the next? Brazil? Which has 20% of potable water of the world, or will America assault Antarctic? USA has one of the cheapest gasoline among rich countries. Bush and Cheney came from Oil Companies. Have you ask yourself if the reason of this war is really against terrorism or just to keep oil prices down? Sharon was reelect in Israel. I'm really concerned about Americans doing the same, i.e, keeping that jerk for another term. Pardon Praedor, but I could not help myself considering this subject over. However I shall not write anymore about it. On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Chuck Burns wrote: > > So, you think implementing a system that protects US citizens from ICMBs is a > bad thing? Come down off your high horse. > Also, when was the last time we broke the Geneva convention? The last war was > in Desert Storm, and did we torture any of those Iraqi soldiers that > surrendered without firing a shot? No, I don't think we did. We have ALWAYS > treated enemy soldiers as well, or better, than the Geneva convention states, > EVEN when our enemies did not, such as was the case in Vietnam, where our > troops were tortured with electric shock. I had a doctor-friend, who was a > medic back in the Vietnam war, who was captured, during a VC raid on a > hospital compound.. They beat him so severely that, to this day, he speaks > with a weak and raspy voice almost like a whisper, because his larynx was > nearly destroyed, but he is still a good doctor. > We never SIGNED Kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD to > ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries with > NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them alone, > so, of course we didn't sign it. --- Alan Wilter S. da Silva --- Laboratório de Física Biológica Instituto de Biofísica Carlos Chagas Filho Universidade do Brasil/UFRJ Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Keep talking sonny. Oh, that is until the terrorists come and bomb your insignificant little cities like Aarhus, Copenhagen ...etc. Then, just maybe THAT will change your mind. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:50 PM To: Experts Subject: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a future for MandrakeSoft. After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and the world as we know it. I listened to the US-Amercan president. I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has scare me to death. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:29 am, Franki wrote: > 3. Oil, I don't recall hearing that the Oil fields that the US liberated in > Desert storm are now owned by the US did I miss some important news > flyer here??? who is running Kuwait now??? I wasn't aware it was the No oil fields were taken after desert storm. In previous years when we were fast friends with Iraq, US oil companies invested a lot in Iraqi oil development/oil fields. Not very different than France, Russia, etc. When we decided that Iraq was no longer a friend (it was never a nice place - Saddam hasn't changed between then and now) it lost us those investments. It's kind of like the rabid, illogical hatred/fear that many Republicans have wrt Cuba. Cuba is SUCH a threat (that is sarcasm, by the way). They are s evil. No. What makes them sooo evil and bad is the lost investment that US companies suffered when it fell to Castro - not that the previous Cuban situation that the US gov't LIKED was good for the local citizens, but that doesn't matter because US companies were squeezing big bucks from their investments in Cuba. A not-insignificant part of the US gov't drive to go after Saddam/Iraq is oil. It certainly wont upset US oil companies if they will regain access to their investments. praedor -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - Friedrich Nietzsche. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Hi! I'm a guy living in Argentina, far away from the bullets. El Mié 29 Ene 2003 10:23, Franki escribió: > You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without fighting... > (assuming he is guilty.) > > what are the alternatives.??? There are always alternatives. May be leave the iraquies alone Like a lot of US presidents did with Latin American in the past. It's known that in the past there were here a lot of Military presidents that didn't respect human rights and the us presidents never took action against them. More to say in Chile with President Alende... US was involve in the killing of Alende trough this guy called Kissinger. And it was a president voted by the people. And US supported the military president that come after that. Almost the same happend here in Argentina and Brasil. So... Please excuse me if I dont believe in your president. I don't trust anymore in a president that have to hide "evidence" in the behave of the people. Here in Argentina we suffer the doctrine of "national security" (of course... with the support of the US). So... to me the only explanation to the action taken by Bush administration is about oil and money. Nothing else. there no comunist to fight this time. > > I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know > enough as civilians to make the distinction... That is very sad to hear. And coming from an american, is very disappointing. I think that the civilians need to know so they can control what rule you. My two cents. > > > > rgds > > Franki > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 8:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > > democracy... > > anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own > > generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had > > no > > > real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. > > That doesn't sound much like what is going on in the US at the moment.. > > You are right with this. I did not compare the situation in the USA of > today with the situation in Germany in the 30ies. I just compared Mr. > Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939. > > > everyone keeps saying "War is not the way" > > Correct. "War is commencing policy by different means." This quote > (can't remember who said that) doesn't apply any more in modern times. > Back when this quote was made war took place in the field. > > There were soldiers whose profession it was to go to war. They were > called "warriors". Was the girl killed in 9/11 or the man in the > streets of Oklahoma or the tourist in Djerba or on Bali, were they > warriors? NO. > > War has changed to something NOBODY can controll any more. All those > brave soldiers with their fine toys and their "Yes, Sir - No, Sir!" > mentality, they are just a part of war. If Saddam has to fight a > military action of the USA we all will be not warriors but potential > victims of that war. No matter how military actions proceed in Iraq, > there will always be enough terrorists ready to "revenge" whatever > they claim to be to revenge. > > > I'd like someone to give us an alternative for getting rid of saddam.. > > does > > > anyone have one? > > Sanctions didn't work against him... just starved his people and made the > > west look like assholes (because saddam tells the people that the west > > are the reason they are starving). > > > > He has been doing the same stuff since 91 and none of the UN stuff has > > worked worth a damn.. > > > > So what is this "alternative" so many speak of?? bribe him to leave?? > > assasinate him?? what?? lets hear the alternatives. > > One last thing, If there is nothing to what the US has been saying... > > then the UN would not be putting the pressure on iraq that they are > > now... so there must be something to it... > > The UN - looks like USA regards themselves not a member any more. All > I hear is "We want this and UN wants that!". The community of world's > people - nothing else is the UN! - has a board of directors if you may > say so, it has no CEO! Maybe Mr. Bush does not know this... > > The UN does what the people want from them - they put pressure on > Saddam to find out what's goin
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The only reason that he posted privately (by error) is that you have got a "reply to" set while discussing on a mailing list. Sorry, but that is your fault. Sascha Noyes On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:08 am, Dallam Wych wrote: > Mr. Barszus, > Please refrain from posting privately on a mailing list, it really > isn't proper netiquette. > > - Forwarded message from Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - > > > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:21 +0100 > > From: Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 14:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you > > > > informed what people here in germany think ? How much are you > > > > interested to understand whats going on in minds here ? I would say > > > > THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! > > Your quoting is wrong, I didn't write this...you did. > > > > I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor > > > just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? > > > Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. > > > > O yeah sure Now I see german is anti-american. And schroeder was > > elected because he isanti-american. Is that what the press told you there > > you live ? A really nice draw ... Maybe you should read for yourself what > > is going on in the world and don't believe in all what is told you. > > I have a rule I use when reading any publication Mr. Barzus, which > is this: There are three sides to every story, what party one says, > what party two says and then the truth itself lies somewhere in the > middle ground. I am quite capable of reading and interpreting for > myself and as a scientist for the past 25+ years I am not in the > habit of believing what is told to me. But, thank you for your > concern. > > > I am not anti-american. > > I did not elected our chancellor for being anti-american. > > I do not mean to be rude, but personally I could care less if you > are or aren't anti-american, what you and a few of the other > contributors to this thread think of my country really doesn't > matter in the overall scheme of things. > This will be my last post in regards to this thread. Perhaps I am > wrong and maybe someone will correct me (please do)...but was it > Mark Twain who said that you can't argue with fools, you will always > lose? - -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OAKagzJdfX+cTW8RAnUgAKCMJDnsQPg6VNgXdpRWh4Rq0HJwkACfSlaS UUlA+AffKEYz1VhpYCRDB7E= =IzXD -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 10:36, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > There is a little thing of lost oil field control by US oil companies as a > result of all the Desert Storm, etc, ugliness. Bush would love nothing more > than to install a friendly leader in Iraq who would then turn over the oil > fields in question to their former US oil company "owners". Ties into both > Bush's and Cheny's former business partners in the business. Your information is speculative and has zero reality. The oil will be controlled by a coalition of countries, and not by the US unilaterally. You need to watch something else besides the Commie News Network. > I was on B-52s in Desert Storm. The Soviet stuff had my attention (I was an > electronic warfare officer - bomber electronic defensive systems) but the > only weapons I actually had any fear of were the US-supplied HAWK missile > systems. We were geared to deal with Soviet equipment and there is just not > a lot that can be done to a HAWK missile wrt jamming/spoofing. That's quite impressive, because judging from many of your previous posts I had you pegged for a child of sixteen or so. > Bush is also in a precarious position, primed to lose the next election for > sure depending on how it plays out. He is spending billions of dollars on > sending troops to the Gulf in preparation for war. The longer they sit there > idle, the less effective they become (for soldiers it is just wearying to sit > around waiting for something to happen - doesn't mean they need to be > warmongers - I'm not. It is a matter of fact that the longer you have to sit > around, the less effective you will be). Also, the longer they just sit > there, the more the expenses pile up. Ding! Ding! Ding! That is the sound > of deficits skyrocketing (after 8 years of steady decline under a truly > intelligent and good, if not libido-riddled, previous president). If our > troops have to sit there too long, it will hurt the US financially and, more > importantly to the current administration, it will hurt chances of > re-election. It wont matter if Osama finally is caught and Iraq is crushed > if it ends up wrecking the US economy for several years - Bush will lose > re-election. He can't have that so better to smash Saddam NOW, regardless of > what almost anybody else things, and get the boys back, reducing the > financial costs and better ensuring chances of re-election. > > Plus, he wants to give his daddy a present. Stupid kid. Funny, that last comment is what I think after I finish looking at your post subject lines. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:53 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 09:38, Chuck Burns wrote: > > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > *snip* > > > > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > > background. > > > > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > They swallow without even looking. The terms "socialist" and "liberal" are mutually exclusive. Sascha Noyes > > LX > > > Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > ---===--- > > To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am always > > right. > > > > > > > > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com - -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OAIugzJdfX+cTW8RAsgIAJ42YVV2tu+DCIBWElZvA1WYkpkMswCeKi0E gdhbr3wtz9uuZkpcyUtxCB4= =aPwQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:14 -0500, et wrote: > > looks like poop... smells like poop, feels like poop, if you think it's not > poop, then you taste it In this case I'd rather put it like this: Looks like poop... smells like poop... feels like poop. Now it's up to you to believe or not when the man says: "Naw, it's not poop! Trust me, I know what I'm doing!" wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
yeah, I'd go along with most of that.. accept for a couple of points.. 1. I stand by my comment about not Judging him.. for one thing.. if you don't know the facts, how can your judgement possibly be appropriate?? (also I was referring to the war issue, not the economy, that you can judge for yourself because it speaks for itself..) He gets judged by those that know.. and unfortunately that isn't us. history will judge him as well, and that's good because history has a much better chance of knowing the relevant facts. 1.1 Your analogy is like those windows users that adversely judge Linux without having ever seen or tried it.. how can they judge something they have never known.. ??? 2. If your family was in a building or a plane or whatever that either an Iraq agent, or an Iraq sponsored terrorist took down,, you would probably find yourself at the forefront of the war crying.. We don't know all the facts.. Those who do not heed the past are destined to repeat it.. so he is at least making an effort to stop something before it happens now.. history is full of cases where no action was taken till it was too late.. who knows, he might actually stop the next 9/11, but he will get no praise for it.. but if he went and gained retribution AFTER the act had taken place, he'd be called an American hero or words to that effect.. just as he did with 9/11 and Afghanistan... He would probably rather be a hero then an unremembered nobody.. but still he is making an effort to stop something happening BEFORE it kills a heap of people.. 3. Oil, I don't recall hearing that the Oil fields that the US liberated in Desert storm are now owned by the US did I miss some important news flyer here??? who is running Kuwait now??? I wasn't aware it was the yanks.. The only things I think that bush has done so far: 1. Not enough explanation of his reasons for it happening now instead of 5-10 years ago to the world at large. 2. Not taking Nth Korea every bit as seriously as Iraq or explaining why they haven't. 3. Not waiting till the UN decreed it.. he should have had agents in there looking and watching for the weapons long before now if there were mass destruction weapons over there.. (after all, the US spends billions on intelligence agencies, satellites etc.. one would think they would have some idea where the weapons were moved, or at least some idea of the areas. if a satellite can read your number plate, it should have a good chance of catching a convoy of flatbed trucks or other sus looking activities, that's an extreme generalisation, but you see what I mean.) I could go on.. but you get my point, I am simply saying that unless you know what they know, you are in no position to declare them right or wrong.. end of story.. They are probably wrong,, who knows, but if they are right, should we wait till thousands or millions die before we do anything Lack of knowledge (ours in this case) is the biggest enemy.. I keep an open mind about this stuff till I know the facts.. I also think I have somewhat of a different perspective here.. I am of German/polish heritage, and I am not in the US.. So I am not just jumping on the war bandwagon.. but history is far to full of retaliation and not enough prevention... By the same token, this will all be history in 20 years, regardless of the outcome.. not much we say here has any bearing on it anyway... So, does anyone have something nice to say about 9.1 rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of et Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Frankl says "To put it simply, we MUSTN'T judge Bush, because we have no idea what he knows.." I say very wrong statement,,, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We MUST Judge the Government continueally, if we are ever to hope to have a government "by the people, for the people and of the people". I think it was also Frankl that said "I just compared Mr. Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939." I would love anyone that has studied Goering-Hitler to apply the same standards and study Rush Limbaugh-Bush. That is a thesis I would read and give much consideration to. LX says "cause he got well over 9 standing ovations that I could count". I could be wrong here, but in the past I had seen (some where damn if I remember where now) that an "average" for standing ovations at a State of the Union Address was 21. Damian Gatabria said "Hard to see.. the future is. Always in motion it is impossible to see." Yoda, read from you again, good it is. James Sparenberg says; "How about if I, an American, Vetran, and Native born Citizen. Call him the scariest thing I've ever seen." How about I, an American, Vietnam Veteran, and Native born C
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 05:17, Steffen Barszus wrote: > First of all, this is not the right place to discuss this .. but we had many > OT-discussions here, why not these... Wobo had his tit; I had the tat, then offered to take it private. Looks like it's public anyway. Fine. > > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. Especially > > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > > then? Or more likely there is something seriously wrong with the German > > side of the equation. Ah, yeah, given history, I'd say definitely so. > > > > That comment really pisses ME off. Well, good; that means the construction met design specs. > > It pisses me off when other countries that have no ethics or balls to do > > the right thing in defense of innocents criticize my country and my > > president. > > WTF ... You think war is the only way ? You think US-american have the > right for being world-police ? As Chuck pointed out, this is not a US-only deal, since Saddam has violated UN resolutions set forth after the Gulf war, which was precipitated by an Iraqi attack on Kuwait. The issue is the enforcement of the UN resolutions that have been violated, which will be done by a coalition of nations that includes the US, with the US being the lead horse. I wouldn't need to point all this out if you did'nt have your head up your a$$. > > Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to > > it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the > > ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the > > Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely > > pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like > > maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish > > this dance. > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed what > people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to understand > whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! Repeat that mantra while you are entertaining your own reflection; and when you are done, come back with some facts instead of reguritated socialist media gibberish. > We really need a different place for discuss this ... Yeah? You mean like my inbox? > -- > Regards > Steffen > LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:54 am, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:43 am, tarvid wrote: > *snip* > > > Bush chooses internationalism when it suits him. > > > > He scuttled Kyoto, ABM and the Biological weapons protocols and ignores > > the Viena and Geneva conventions. > > So, you think implementing a system that protects US citizens from ICMBs is > a bad thing? Come down off your high horse. He did not say that it was a bad thing, he stated simply that this constitutes a breach of the ABM treaty. > Also, when was the last time we broke the Geneva convention? The last war > was in Desert Storm, and did we torture any of those Iraqi soldiers that > surrendered without firing a shot? No, I don't think we did. We have ALWAYS > treated enemy soldiers as well, or better, than the Geneva convention > states, EVEN when our enemies did not, such as was the case in Vietnam, > where our troops were torturted with electric shock. The USA government torture(d/s) many of the detainees from the war in Afghanistan. They do this with the justification that it is necessary in order to prevent further attacks on the USA, and that these people are not really prisoners of war anyway. (I'll leave it to you to decide whether someone captured in the War in Afghanistan is a prisoner of war or not.) >I had a > doctor-friend, who was a medic back in the Vietnam war, who was captured, > during a VC raid on a hospital compound.. They beat him so severely that, > to this day, he speaks with a weak and raspy voice almost like a whisper, > because his larynx was nearly destroyed, but he is still a good doctor. > We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD > to ecologists. The real reason that it was not signed by the USA government was that it imposed environmental regulation upon its corporations and was therefore a danger to profits made by raping the environment. Do you honestly think that if Kyoto was really "nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD to ecologists." that the USA government, on behalf of its corporations would not be the very first to sign such a convention. >The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries > with NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them > alone, so, of course we didn't sign it. There are two ways to measure how polluting a country is: 1. Measuring the tons of pollutants emitted by that country. 2. Measuring the tons of pollutants emitted by that country and dividing it by the size of the population. The USA is among the top pollutants under method 1., but is frankly off the chart under method 2. The statistics are further complicated by the fact that American corporations engage in polluting abroad, which does not get measured into the amount for the USA, while the actual money resulting from this activity is shipped to the USA. If I have not been clear enough in this email about how the USA government is simply the executive of large american corporations, I present you with the following news story in an area that we all (on this list) should be knowledgeable about: Free Software. This article details how the USA government in a meeting of _Asian_ countries twisted the proceeding such that there would not be an official notice of support for open source software: http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/01/15/030115hnwsisos_1.html (http://www.pigdog.org/auto/digital_gar_gar_gar/link/2781.html) Sascha Noyes - -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/7igzJdfX+cTW8RAjq2AJ4s/MdSb2Ab1A37TYbH5J5BoxZkjQCeKpI7 sMv5l3egVe8Mc9Rlan7wCXM= =g9ns -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:14 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > > Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. I would say it was a case of the pot calling the kettle "black" > > > They swallow without even looking. > > Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it > up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? > > wobo looks like poop... smells like poop, feels like poop, if you think it's not poop, then you taste it Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:53 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 09:38, Chuck Burns wrote: > > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > *snip* > > > > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > > background. > > > > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side Guys, PLEASE! Uncalled for, ugly, and way too knee-jerk U.S.A.-conservative. Let's please cut the personal name-calling. Just stick to discussing Bush's lack of any real education and utter lack of curiosity about anything of which he is ignorant (this last part about utter lack of curiosity is cribbed from a newspaper article appearing in a local Indiana paper about a week ago - - the words are from a CONSERVATIVE journalist who spent time at the White House with Bush and friends for a while...can't recall his name right now). Oh for the days when we had a President who actually read BOOKS (comics, sports pages from newspapers don't count - nor do the stock market pages). - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/zI1i/6R1B/Yh0RAhIpAKCO4G8Y/eJE59DS398zRBGcq/2xmQCdHOrE T+jQxDxoIMJz0kJtZo5W7Gc= =lV78 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. > They swallow without even looking. Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
Mr. Barszus, Please refrain from posting privately on a mailing list, it really isn't proper netiquette. - Forwarded message from Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:21 +0100 > From: Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 14:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed > > > what people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to > > > understand whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU > > > WRITE ! Your quoting is wrong, I didn't write this...you did. > > I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor > > just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? > > Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. > O yeah sure Now I see german is anti-american. And schroeder was elected > because he isanti-american. Is that what the press told you there you live ? > A really nice draw ... Maybe you should read for yourself what is going on in > the world and don't believe in all what is told you. I have a rule I use when reading any publication Mr. Barzus, which is this: There are three sides to every story, what party one says, what party two says and then the truth itself lies somewhere in the middle ground. I am quite capable of reading and interpreting for myself and as a scientist for the past 25+ years I am not in the habit of believing what is told to me. But, thank you for your concern. > I am not anti-american. > I did not elected our chancellor for being anti-american. I do not mean to be rude, but personally I could care less if you are or aren't anti-american, what you and a few of the other contributors to this thread think of my country really doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things. This will be my last post in regards to this thread. Perhaps I am wrong and maybe someone will correct me (please do)...but was it Mark Twain who said that you can't argue with fools, you will always lose? -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 09:38, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > background. > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. They swallow without even looking. LX > Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ---===--- > To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am always right. > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:35 am, tarvid wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:07 am, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:08 am, tarvid wrote: > > > I like my horse, even though he is over 30 now. > > > > 30?! Wow. What kind of horse is he? Have you retired him to pasture > > grazing or do you actually still ride him? > > Norwegian Fjord and more of a retired cart horse than a trail horse. My > daughter rides him on ocassion. > He prefers cookies to grass although he manages to keep his 7 acre paddock > rather close. The one horse keeps 7 acres close? Are the goats helping in this regard? I/we had 2 horses and 5 acres of pasture - they'd keep patches of it close while other sections grew long enough to require mowing now and again (they don't like fescue - out pasture is a mix of fescue and...something else I don't recall). Now we have the original 2 quarter horses and a Percheron that was acquired/rescued 3 months ago. He was "donated" to the local university veterinarian school where my wife works. This meant he was almost certain to be euthanized after a little educational use by veterinarian students. We couldn't have that. We are hoping that this third horse wont overstress the pasture come spring and summer. > I keep a few goats - cashmeres, saanens and alpines. > > The place is blessed with a few dozen wild turkeys. Sound wonderful. No turkeys here (unfortunately - though we do see them around in the more forested portions of Indiana) but we have hawks, falcons, bald eagles, golden eagles, jack-rabbits, and my personal favorite, coyotes. The stench from the hog farm down the road wafts this way which gives me a "hazy perspective" but for entirely different reasons, I think, than your place does for you ;) - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/k51i/6R1B/Yh0RArdAAJ9Rp/V0Zq4qEFP9PIepnfo/AQLX4gCfcsoG nS4LdRgbplVbaNuTUoya/W0= =j03t -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 08:57, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 7:55 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > > statement I doubt that you have any clue. > I think the Germans are so scared of their OWN past, that they will allow ANY > country to do whatever they want to do to their OWN people, as long as the > cowardly germans have to do nothing! Bingo, bingo Bingo!! Man, you nailed it. Hitler has left them with no nads whatsoever. You got it before I could. LX > -- > Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ---===--- > Tomorrow's computers some time next month. > -- DEC > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 14:56 +, Dallam Wych wrote: > > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > > statement I doubt that you have any clue. > In all honesty, I only spend a few weeks a year now in germany as > opposed to the 1970's when I spent perhaps 3 months out of the year > there. My opinions are formed as are most everyones...by what we > read and from what friends in other countries convey to us. Call > that clueless if you like. I live here. And I am not dependent on any German papers because I watch foreign tv (CNN, BBC, NBC) as well as German tv. > And why shouldn't a european country shoulder the burden of > defending itself? Provide its own soldiers, etc? I just personally > believe that NATO isn't a viable option for the US or the UK. OK, back to the times of "Splendid Isolation". Apart from the fact that I just love England, went to school there and return twice a year for a short vacation with friends in London and Exeter, Devon, I don't care too much for British politics. I am not against a "European Military Union" instead of NATO. NATO had it's time during the cold war and Europe was a fine buffer zone for the USA but times have changed. > For the US inparticular in light of the rabid anti-americanism > there. It costs a lot of money to keep troops stationed on foreign > soil, plus it pumps a lot of money into countries that dispise you > anyway. The rabid Anti-Americanism, think back when did it start? Yes, it really started after Mr. Bush was ruled into presidency. > _world_ carried this story for at least the last week of the german > election. I could swear it was mentioned about the same time one of > the german politicians compared Bush to Hitler, but then again I > might be mistaken. Another fact that was formed by the press. What did she really say exactly? She said that Mr. Bush uses a strategy which was well known and used by mighty men like (she named a British guy I can't remember), Hitler, Napoleon, and some others back to Machiavelli. So if you read it closely all she did was stating a historical fact. Your military leaders use the same tactics as some German generals during WWII and some generals before them because they are tactics out of military books that are used in Sandhurst and Annapolis as well as in the strategy lessons all around the world. So I do compare your generals with German WWII generals? Yes but in a historical context. Just a small example of what can be done by misinformation. Not that the US administration would be too shy to do such things as trying to manipulate the media. > I think this is a matter of convenience and I feel one day in the > not to distant future given the latest franco-german manipulation of > the european union I will be proven right. No manipulation there. Or do you think Germany would face a slap in the face by the European Union if there were such manipulations? > History is full of things you can't imagine people actually were bad > enough to do. If our chanceller would do other than the parliament entitles him to do he would be out of office the same minute. Our political system works different than yours. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Frankl says "To put it simply, we MUSTN'T judge Bush, because we have no idea what he knows.." I say very wrong statement,,, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We MUST Judge the Government continueally, if we are ever to hope to have a government "by the people, for the people and of the people". I think it was also Frankl that said "I just compared Mr. Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939." I would love anyone that has studied Goering-Hitler to apply the same standards and study Rush Limbaugh-Bush. That is a thesis I would read and give much consideration to. LX says "cause he got well over 9 standing ovations that I could count". I could be wrong here, but in the past I had seen (some where damn if I remember where now) that an "average" for standing ovations at a State of the Union Address was 21. Damian Gatabria said "Hard to see.. the future is. Always in motion it is impossible to see." Yoda, read from you again, good it is. James Sparenberg says; "How about if I, an American, Vetran, and Native born Citizen. Call him the scariest thing I've ever seen." How about I, an American, Vietnam Veteran, and Native born Citizen who can trace his roots back to the pilgrims and Jamestown on one side, and the Revolutionary war on the other side, says a damn loud; "ME TOO". Just wait till it's Jeb's turn to be Prez. (2008) he is a lot smarter than Geo, and that will be even scarier. Dallam Wych says; " It costs a lot of money to keep troops stationed on foreign soil, plus it pumps a lot of money into countries that dispise you anyway." unless the US Military decides to have truly "Universal Conscription" we will always be giving the "countries that dispise you" a reason to dislike the USA, since we are sending the underclass (economicly and social skill classes) to their soil. unless people like the Bush family (and lots of other Politically connected families) are required to send their children to war and not allowed to avoid the dirty parts of war (like pulling dogtags off dead bodies or packing body bags, or marking where body parts are found with flags after a jet crash, or seeing the face of someone that is "kill or be killed" for you.) then The USA has no moral high ground to stand on, in my opinion. Praedor Tempus Atrebates said; "This is WAY offtopic and would be better suited for an alt.* newsgroup. As a US Desert Storm veteran and now reservist, I think I can speak for EVERYONE that Bush is an idiot, in fact, he truly is the most ignorant, ill-educated president that the US has EVER had and that his actions, politics, and behavior is an unfortunate expression of this fact. Lets just leave it here at what we ALL can and must agree on because these are simple, objective facts. There, all fixed. Now this topic can die." Well said Praedor. Having lived a few years "on the economy" in Germany, and having had business, personal and political problems with the Bush family, being a Democrate from Miami-Dade County Fla. and having generations long family friends and neighbors of the Reno family (Janet's dad and my mom worked together for many years), I my have a somewhat different view about this than some, and I sure love to put my useless -.02$USD view here too. altho I will NOT speak about the personal and business problems I have had with the Bush family, just leave it that the business was in real estate. and the personal stuff involved Donald Rumsfeld and Bush the senior in the time frame between 1969 and 1980 (sometime in there, that ought to be vague enough to keep me out of further trouble) IMHO, the German view of Government is much more "business like" than the American view. American Government seems to be very "idealistic" and often will pass and enforce laws that are not really "by the people, for the people and of the people" in spite of any mandate. That's why we had laws like liqueur prohibition, and the Federal criminalization of Marijuana, (even where the popular vote has "legalized marijuana" the federal government steps in and says basicly, "we don't care what laws you pass, or that over half the people in the USA have done it, we ain't gonna allow this to be legal". It is a big business, and there are lots of folks in the "inner circles" making lots of money from it being against the law. In the USA you can not just go to the Apothecary and pick up a concentrated caffeine drops to help stay awake or loose weight ($15.00USD and 10 min. time), since we want you to have to see a doctor, ($70.00 TO $100.00) then go to a drug store and pay an outrageous amount of money for a drug to loose weight or stay awake (80.00 a month), and then to find out the drug will kill you 10 years from now due to some organ it weakened. To me, this is the difference, very thrifty and business like to just get what you want with the min. of interferance, as opposed to a bunch of laws (designed to
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good morning, Wobo... On Wednesday 29 January 2003 06:37 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Looking back I realize that I have made a mistake by opening this > thread. Sorry folks, I'll start a new one on my experiences with the > Beta2 of 9.1 in some minutes. And it will contain nothing about > politics! Promise. [Dave puts on a black wig and leans close to the monitor] Whisper about it in my ear. No one else will ever know. 8-) Dave - -- Dave Laird ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Used Kharma Lot / The Phoenix Project Web Page: http://www.kharma.net updated 01/20/2003 Year 2 of running Mandrake Linux workstation on a 100% Microsoft-free system. An automatic & random thought For the Minute: Don't assume that every sad-eyed woman has loved and lost -- she may have got him. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/ZRaE1ENZP1A28RAlkUAKCa4Rj1VdM1D6sIxKUCG5XgFHEBBACffKmS Ja4Pca2v1dRtyM/5WvCc39A= =gQZx -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:27 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:36 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > > FACT: The French have oil contracts with Iraq. > > Aha! Now we are seeing some real beef. The French have and the US have > not? (You may recognize that I'm coming down to your level of arguing > slowly but surely). There is a little thing of lost oil field control by US oil companies as a result of all the Desert Storm, etc, ugliness. Bush would love nothing more than to install a friendly leader in Iraq who would then turn over the oil fields in question to their former US oil company "owners". Ties into both Bush's and Cheny's former business partners in the business. > > FACT: Nearly all the Iraqi weapons are of old Soviet design, where did > > they get these designs? Russia and her neighbors, under the old USSR > > So let me see, whre we have all old weapons from Russia with love: > German criminals use them, some dozen countries in Africa use them, > Pakistan has some, I was on B-52s in Desert Storm. The Soviet stuff had my attention (I was an electronic warfare officer - bomber electronic defensive systems) but the only weapons I actually had any fear of were the US-supplied HAWK missile systems. We were geared to deal with Soviet equipment and there is just not a lot that can be done to a HAWK missile wrt jamming/spoofing. [...] > It all boils down to the situation that Mr. Bush and his followers are > like a French Terrier dog, getting up on his hindfeet ready to be > unleashed to get at his prey. Bush is also in a precarious position, primed to lose the next election for sure depending on how it plays out. He is spending billions of dollars on sending troops to the Gulf in preparation for war. The longer they sit there idle, the less effective they become (for soldiers it is just wearying to sit around waiting for something to happen - doesn't mean they need to be warmongers - I'm not. It is a matter of fact that the longer you have to sit around, the less effective you will be). Also, the longer they just sit there, the more the expenses pile up. Ding! Ding! Ding! That is the sound of deficits skyrocketing (after 8 years of steady decline under a truly intelligent and good, if not libido-riddled, previous president). If our troops have to sit there too long, it will hurt the US financially and, more importantly to the current administration, it will hurt chances of re-election. It wont matter if Osama finally is caught and Iraq is crushed if it ends up wrecking the US economy for several years - Bush will lose re-election. He can't have that so better to smash Saddam NOW, regardless of what almost anybody else things, and get the boys back, reducing the financial costs and better ensuring chances of re-election. Plus, he wants to give his daddy a present. Stupid kid. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/UW1i/6R1B/Yh0RAqRjAJ0V/zcZl1TxWVwKmyURDL4Yygca2gCeLuj/ cyKgzm0nN9UHI/RszzMKYgY= =6ETR -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good morning, Mike... On Wednesday 29 January 2003 06:20 am, Mike Veltman wrote: > And please respect the fact that a lot of europeans have a different view > of the Irac case. ...as do *SOME* Americans. Dave - -- Dave Laird ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Used Kharma Lot / The Phoenix Project Web Page: http://www.kharma.net updated 01/20/2003 Year 2 of running Mandrake Linux workstation on a 100% Microsoft-free system. An automatic & random thought For the Minute: Minicomputer: A computer that can be afforded on the budget of a middle-level manager. -- T.A. Dolotta -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/UiaE1ENZP1A28RAm80AJwOfYVYz42m8HOicUhmdDWDJgaW+wCfbDCF BP4eEI4qanJ6/HOVeUi53CU= =rglC -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:07 am, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:08 am, tarvid wrote: > > I like my horse, even though he is over 30 now. > > 30?! Wow. What kind of horse is he? Have you retired him to pasture > grazing or do you actually still ride him? > Norwegian Fjord and more of a retired cart horse than a trail horse. My daughter rides him on ocassion. He prefers cookies to grass although he manages to keep his 7 acre paddock rather close. I keep a few goats - cashmeres, saanens and alpines. The place is blessed with a few dozen wild turkeys. The animals help me keep a hazy perspective on human folly. Jim Tarvid Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:38 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > background. > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. Different to your sig your posting did not contain anything worth focusing. But I really enjoyed reading those verses once more. Thanks anyway. See, I focused on your posting, not on your sig although again it was much more interesting. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:36 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > FACT: The French have oil contracts with Iraq. Aha! Now we are seeing some real beef. The French have and the US have not? (You may recognize that I'm coming down to your level of arguing slowly but surely). > FACT: Nearly all the Iraqi weapons are of old Soviet design, where did they > get these designs? Russia and her neighbors, under the old USSR So let me see, whre we have all old weapons from Russia with love: German criminals use them, some dozen countries in Africa use them, Pakistan has some, > Now.. You explain to me why these nations are reneging on their signed > documents? Why, all of a sudden, the SAME nations who AGREED to Resolution > 1441, now are saying that it shouldn't be carried out? Please, explain that > to me. I am waiting. Why don't you read the text of 1441 instead of waiting? Didn't you learn to search and evaluate information? Where in 1441 is the sentence which automatically creates a declaration of war if 1441 was not followed by the letter? It all boils down to the situation that Mr. Bush and his followers are like a French Terrier dog, getting up on his hindfeet ready to be unleashed to get at his prey. The more calmer parties in the council are prepared to give the prey a bit more leeway to avoid an unpleseant scene. Well, Tony, he is different case at all. He has so many problems at home in Downing Street that he was really happy to find an issue to distract his people. Which will not work at all. If Tony Blair joins Mr. Bush he will lose his job, that's for sure. The majority of his people is against war at every cost, same as in Germany. Mr. Schroeder can not vote against the will of the German parliament. He has to discuss the issue in parliament and if this parliament says "Nay" he is forced to say "Nay" in the council. Mr. Schroeder does not speak for himself, he speaks for the German people. That is one of the differences between him and Mr. Bush. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
