Re: [Assam] Bandh culture
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7454_1468200,000800050001.htm We are ALL in the same boat, brother! The ULFA or Congress or AGP or whoever else, it is the same political machinery at work - churning money for the same overall set of power brokers. Whoever is saying independence, midwifed by ULFA, is going to be any different is pulling wool over our eyes. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] Hi Group.............
India isn't breaking up anytime soon. It's time to breakup has long passed. USSR was bankrupt by the time it was breaking up. More than anything else India's different regions and its pan Indian middle class have a very strong economic case to stick together. The status quo powers and their capitalist machinery NEED India to be one entity - for both economic and military reasons. India's federal army has way more funds today (at far less a percentage of GDP) than ever before. Except for some age old, diehard veterans on this board and some quixotic planners in Pakistan, IMHO there aren't too many that think it is possible in the immediate future - read our lifetimes. As for 200 years hence, it is too far away. Oh yes, with this may I add, the time for revolt and revolution is also long over. There is a better business case for sitting down quietly and peacefully and letting people work and earn money. It isn't any wonder why the streets of Assam aren't exactly burning with the fire of revolution. But Mike, you have posed an interesting question. Share your theories and answers to the questions you have posed. Take time asking 'Is India heading Somewhere?' What if India broke up without bloodshed - USSR Style? Who will gain and who lose? Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] Boga Baduli and BPO Boom--Part 1
Alpanadi, I almost assumed there was a hidden meaning in that harmless question, given the propensity of BPO business in India these days. Perhaps not. BPO means Business Process Outsourcing. It includes all those calls that get replied to in the case of a Dell computer support call, American Express call regading the card etc. While you dial your 1-800 number, the call reaches some part of India and is responded to by an enthusiastic young Indian voice going by the name of Becky or Bob. It also includes a whole load of back office processing functions in financial services, mortgage applications etc. American companies ship these jobs overseas (India being a most favored destination) and save costs. Consequently, young Indians pick up these jobs at far lower costs. Used to be that the guys studying in Commerce or Arts, getting out of DU or someplace else, would be sweating at the thought of looking for a career. No longer - if you are English speaking. Young 21 year olds earn Rs, 10,000 or 20,000 right out of college. They change jobs 1 or 2 times a year because there is so much demand. Companies scout around for young english speaking talent around the country - when they have exhausted New Delhi and Mumbai and Pune and Bangalore and so on, they go to smaller towns. Imagine having a recruitment goal of 20,000 new people in a year. To get an idea of how big it is - it is already a million workforce strong in India in just a few years. And taking over the role of the world's back office has not yet scratched the surface. As Swapnali points out, it probably could shape up as one of the most important cultural phenomena to hit a very young India. Thanks to Swapnali for bringing this account out. Are there many young Indians from the northeast in the BPO business? Rajib --- Alpana B. Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - What is a BPO? - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Assam] Boga Baduli and BPO Boom--Part 1 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 04:38:54 +0530 Hi Everybody, My association with this group isnt very old. It started 2 and half years back when my previous company sent a group of 30 people to Texas for training. And the plethora of information given by this group helped the entire group tremendously. After that I have been a sporadic visitor of this group. The other day I was reading the Prime Ministers speech in Oxford where he mentioned about the most important British legacy, the English language and about their modern school systems. http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/nic/0046/pmspeech.htm. A Times of India columnist once wrote that its only for the Tamil crusaders that English stayed in India despite the onslaught of Hindi Imperialism that started right after Independence. Hence all the kudos for the Indian BPO success should go to the Tamilians ! Another article that re-shaped my thinking process was the one I read (rather my mother read it aloud to me and my sister) in Prantik (an Assmese magazine) almost 16/17 years back, where a well settled NRA called the Assamese families who sent their kids to English medium schools as boga baduli (white bat) which is a bizarre epiphany. (Though I am not very certain about the writers name, the Prantik edition with that article still could be found in my book shelf back home provided my mother hasnt sold those old copies) This was said having found by the NRA writer that certain English medium educated Guwahati kids spoke worse Assamese than his own USA born and brought up kids. The article highly influenced my mother who is a teacher in a school named after the great martyr of baxa andulon Anil Bora. Once mother also told us how the Assamese had to fight to have Assamese as the official language of the state. The memory of that cataclysmic event was still fresh among the elders then. It was our father who put all our three kids in that English medium school in our town which was another legacy left by the colonial Brits and he expected us to imbibe some of their qualities like discipline, time management etc and definitely to learn English better. The following year my mother re-enrolled all her three kids in local vernacular school. While my siblings continued, I was not able to cope up with the difference, not for a single day and went back to my alma mater the very next day. However through out my student life I made sure I am equally proficient in Oxomiya like my siblings and many a times outdid them Years later when I was in Delhi pursuing my post- graduation, the BPO boom started first in Delhi. Though I was over qualified for those jobs, I thought of joining the bandwagon rather going back home and being jobless like my batch mates. Another reason for choosing the BPO was to avoid jostling with the rowdy and vulgar north Indian crowd. All BPOs have their private cabs for
Re: [Assam] Much Ado about What?
On the subject of roads, I got good news from home at last. Finally the moon craters of the roads leading into Lal Ganesh - the Lakhra road, seem to be filling up. They were creating proper drainage and laying it out at good speed was last I heard. All is not done however - sometimes they stop inexplicably half way through and never get back. These roads were such a terror, I was delighted enough to throw a party here. This, though, after civilians (not affiliated with political parties) were lathi charged by the police. --- Alpana B. Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Don't extortion calls reach your home earlier than you can drive back from the dealership with your car, these days?? If the car makes it to your home in one piece after driving on those roads built by Assam PWD engineers, or are these engineers imported from Dilli as well? - From: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tridip [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] Much Ado about What? Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Btw, guwahati is the second fastest growing city in the whole of south and south-east asian countries after blore. This shows that the penchant for development is there .but only if u give it a chance ..and of course the consumer market is booming going by the numbers of Mercedes and other high end cars that are hitting the roads of ghy ( earlier Mercedes means its either from jorhat or from dibrugarh/tinsukia the tea- belt). And this rise in consumerism (in ghy and elsewhere) is indirectly proportional to the decline of ULFA. Touché. Don't extortion calls reach your home earlier than you can drive back from the dealership with your car, these days?? Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] New Member
The charge of lahe-lahe may perhaps be a mindless one - clearly from MY extended experience in schooling across regions in India would demonstrate otherwise, even if the numbers from Assam were relatively less. What stares in the face however has different versions of the story. It might be a good one to listen to youngsters to find out what REALLY stares in the face. Some of us in the 50/60 age bracket might really end up listening to stuff they haven't heard (or perhaps do not want to hear). Applying the charge of scions of the establishment to most of these youngsters would be mindless too. people, scions of the establishment, raised in privileges, whose are witless and unable to see what sits on their faces, and then attempt to explain away Assam's conditions on a genetic disposition of its people that makes them slow, 'lahe-lahe', inept and corrupt. It does not require any PROVING otherwise, because the perception, the charge itself is at best, a mindless one. At 6:17 AM -0700 8/18/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote: A warm welcome to all of you who started membership recently. It is so heartwarming to see so many up and coming Assamese youngsters spreading all over India and holding responsible positions. You are the true ambassadors of Assam to tell the rest of India that the Assamese are just as capable as any other Indian, if not better. We in the 50/60 age group would like to hear from you guys regularly on topics that interest today's Assamese young people. We start new discussions in this net and mostly they degenerate into the same debate that has become too familiar. I am hoping you guys can change that with a fresh viewpoint. Dilip Deka Houston TX jadav kakoti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all I am Jadav Kakoti, working in North East Sun magazine, a political fortnightly published from Delhi. I have just joined the e-group. I'm from North Lakhimpur and have been here in Delhi for the last one decade. Hope I'll have a nice interaction with you all on diverse issues concerning the Land of Red Rivers and Blue Mountains. Bye Jadav http://adworks.rediff.com/cgi-bin/AdWorks/sigclick.cgi/www.rediff.com/signature-home.htm/[EMAIL PROTECTED]___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Much Ado about What?
Btw, guwahati is the second fastest growing city in the whole of south and south-east asian countries after blore. This shows that the penchant for development is there .but only if u give it a chance ..and of course the consumer market is booming going by the numbers of Mercedes and other high end cars that are hitting the roads of ghy ( earlier Mercedes means its either from jorhat or from dibrugarh/tinsukia the tea- belt). And this rise in consumerism (in ghy and elsewhere) is indirectly proportional to the decline of ULFA. Touché. Don't extortion calls reach your home earlier than you can drive back from the dealership with your car, these days?? Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Much Ado about What?
Today's Assam Tribune has a picture with the following caption: Relatives of last years I-Day blast victims at Dhemaji planting saplings at the blast site on Monday. School students took out a silent rally to mark State Grievance Day in memory of the departed souls. Now that is connected to the independence day celebrations. Though in itself, it is not quite a celebration. On 8/17/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was waiting to exhale after holding my breath for so long--about the impending violence and mayhem on Dependence Day--I mean, Independence Day :-) celebrations and also to read about all the throngs that would have defied the insurgents' call to go listen to the 'netas' on I-Day. But there is a curious silence in the news media. The ONLY reference I found was at http://www.janasadharan.com/. Apparently , except for a few ministers,hardly anyone went to re-plant their faith in 'independence' and desi-demokrasy or sow seeds of discontent on the freshly ploughed grounds of the Judges' Field. Well, what the heck, maybe the grass will grow better next time. Question is however, what is the story? I mean is it, like the Dainik J. announced that the presence and alertness of the 'security' forces prevented the violence ( and also the turnout of the loyal celebrants dying--not literally now--to take part in the festivities)? Or is it the fear caused by them insurgents' threats? Or was it empathy with the insurgents' calls? Or was it due to a deep apathy and cynicism towards these so called independence celebrations? For some strange reason however, I doubt there will be profound analyses and proclamations about the victory of democracy over the 'thugs', and an impending demise of the insurgencies. And if so, should the people, including us, not raise their voices to bring an end to the insurgencies thru a negotiated political solution? cm ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] I - Day, AT editorial
You do not need ULFA to reject the festivities of Independence day. That is the sad reality. Independence? From Whom? From What? That is the funny part. All these questions from Cda. And yet, many many people DO WANT to celebrate the festivities. I assume those children of Dhemaji did. I believe those were/are NOT questions these people are bothered with. I do not wonder whether too many people are concerned about ULFA REJECTING independence day activities. They are concerned about the damned bombs the ULFA would place when THEY WANT to take part in the festivities. What would people do if it was not a terror threat the ULFA was giving but a call or a request (without any terror threat)? How many people would take heed and how many wouldn't? --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, It is totally fine for ULFA or anyone else to have a different view of democracy, independence or whether or not to celebrate I-Day. What is galling is the threat the ULFA imposes on a people, who at least in their minds think they are free and DO want to celebrate I-Day. ULFA may not agree with their views, you or others may not agree with those views, but the fact that ULFA uses bombs and guns to control public opinion is utterly shameless. And the ULFA that supposedly yearns for freedom is the very same one that wants to scuttle it for Assamese people who don't agree with its views. Who are they kidding? --Ram On 8/15/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good to hear from you after a very long time Namita. But I think you are looking at the issue thru a rather constricted aperture. There is a whole lot more to it. Some of it you can see at: http://www.dainikagradoot.com/mainnews1.htm and also for Democracy perhaps, but freedom waits. at: http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20050822fname=JJohn+Pilgersid=1pn=3 You do not need ULFA to reject the festivities of Independence day. That is the sad reality. Independence? From Whom? From What? c-da At 9:02 PM -0400 8/15/05, Namita Das wrote: Feel terrible how the people of Assam are deprived of celebrating their own I-day by a terrible group. - Original Message - From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Assam assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:13 PM Subject: [Assam] I - Day, AT editorial Some of the sentiments a number of us have been expressing. __ I -Day violence Calls by the insurgent outfits to boycott the Independence Day and Republic Day has become the order of the day and this year is no exception as four militant outfits of the north eastern region including the United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA) have given a call to boycott the Independence Day celebrations. The ULFA, in an apparent move to deter the people of Assam from celebrating the day, even went to the extent of claiming that it would attack the venues of the Independence Day celebrations. But on the positive side, the number of militant outfits giving calls for Independence Day celebrations is coming down with every passing year with more and more militant outfits coming forward for talks with the Government of India for political solution of their problems and the possibility of the ULFA being totally isolated in the days to come cannot be ruled out. Major militant outfits of the North East region including both the factions of the NSCN have been holding talks with the Government of India, while, the ULFA lost another of its partner- National Democratic Front of Boroland (NDFB) as the Bodo outfit has also signed a cease-fire pact with the Government of India, which prevented the outfit from giving any call to boycott the Independence Day celebrations. The threat by the ULFA to attack the venues of the Independence Day celebrations also exposed the fact that the frustration level of the outfit is growing with every passing year. The ULFA can give boycott calls, but the people of Assam have the right to decide whether to attend the celebrations or not and no one has the right to use force to compel anyone from attending any function. The gruesome killing of 13 women and children in Dhemaji during the Independence Day celebrations last year is still fresh in the memory of the people of Assam and the ULFA should remember the State-wide public outcry against such kind of mindless killing before issuing any threat to the people who decide to attend the Independence Day celebrations. The ULFA should also realise the fact that any killing of innocent people will further alienate the outfit from the masses and so they should desist from targeting innocent people to achieve their goals. The outfit should also realise that it would never be able to justify the killing of
Re: [Assam] I - Day, AT editorial
I guess most people understands freedoms and ideas are relative. Those that don't are the ones willing to maim and kill if people don't accept their point of view. Like not going to Independence day celebrations. Thinking people make their choices, hold it up to reason and then change some when those choices turn against reason. Going by the logic presented on this post, when Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts blow up civilians and buildings, it is a fight for freedom. So is it when Daniel Pearl's head is cut off. And children in Beslan are held in a siege and then killed ruthlessly. Heck, even Hitler's mass murder of Jews was about creating a better Germany. But then we have to make our choices. Most thinking people would, in my opinion, make the choice AGAINST the idea of killing children just because they chose to celebrate Independence day. Even when, some who, like me, have not made a sacrifice of their life but are content posting opinions here opine that he is going to give credence to those giving their lives. The choice is between me or him, not me or ULFA or for that matter me or the Indian Army. The choice, in this case, is clear. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ULFA may not agree with their views, you or others may not agree with those views, but the fact that ULFA uses bombs and guns to control public opinion is utterly shameless. *** I cannot refute your argument Ram. It demonstrates your own development as a highly evolved human being who holds freedom and independence -- albeit under the Indian banner-- in high esteem, and thus looks down upon such violent behavior as armed struggle with guns and bombs, willingly accepting death and maiming or imprisoned indefinitely; by those who seek to achieve their own freedoms, under a different banner. But I am not sure that sense of 'shame' is an absolute value. From all I have seen all my life, even right this moment as an American, where I came seeking the kind of freedoms I have found; it is a RELATIVE one, under the best of circumstances. On a different plane, but no less relevant, is the Indian intelligentsia's sense of shame in their own affairs, as demonstrated the corruption of the nation, something, even characters like KPS Gill waxes eloquent about on the pages of Outlook India.com, is nothing to write home about, to put it mildly. And that is merely in one facet of public life. In that I tend to give more credence to those who put their lives where their mouths are. And knowing your integrity, I like to believe you too would, if not today, some-day :-). c-da At 8:45 AM -0500 8/16/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, It is totally fine for ULFA or anyone else to have a different view of democracy, independence or whether or not to celebrate I-Day. What is galling is the threat the ULFA imposes on a people, who at least in their minds think they are free and DO want to celebrate I-Day. ULFA may not agree with their views, you or others may not agree with those views, but the fact that ULFA uses bombs and guns to control public opinion is utterly shameless. And the ULFA that supposedly yearns for freedom is the very same one that wants to scuttle it for Assamese people who don't agree with its views. Who are they kidding? --Ram On 8/15/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good to hear from you after a very long time Namita. But I think you are looking at the issue thru a rather constricted aperture. There is a whole lot more to it. Some of it you can see at: http://www.dainikagradoot.com/mainnews1.htm and also for Democracy perhaps, but freedom waits. at: http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20050822fname=JJohn+Pilgersid=1pn=3 You do not need ULFA to reject the festivities of Independence day. That is the sad reality. Independence? From Whom? From What? c-da At 9:02 PM -0400 8/15/05, Namita Das wrote: Feel terrible how the people of Assam are deprived of celebrating their own I-day by a terrible group. - Original Message - From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Assam assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:13 PM Subject: [Assam] I - Day, AT editorial Some of the sentiments a number of us have been expressing. __ I -Day violence Calls by the insurgent outfits to boycott the Independence Day and Republic Day has become the order of the day and this year is no exception as four militant outfits of the north eastern region including the United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA) have given a call to boycott the Independence Day celebrations. The ULFA, in an apparent move to deter the people of Assam from celebrating the day, even went to the extent of claiming that it would attack the
Re: [Assam] Assam red-faced over CAG report - Telegraph
I checked the balance sheet numbers on Assam Government website and did not find any indicators. I think one would accept if you used numbers and sources for those numbers instead of just referring to Sanjib Baruah. Assam has been and continuing to pay huge assessments for deployment of the armed forces, not just the CRPF. I don't have the exact numbers or the percentage of the total costs to the forces, but enough to hold Assam tottering at the edge of bankruptcy for decades. Had it been a What exactly is huge amounts? Without numbers in hand, all this talk is weightless opinion. the poor-house. Combined that with Indian governmental/economic system that requires to maintain huge numbers of people in its payroll, work or no work; that the Assam Govt. faithfully emulates, Now that is worth a laugh. Because different states have gone forward with different models - many have kept relatively leaner governments. The center does not exactly hold a gun to the state governments to recruit people into the government. Incidentally, the center is the leanest of the governments. And sure enough, the insurgencies of 25 years adding up to nothing, has also made sure there is nothing much else in terms of private sector jobs to look forward to. Did Sanjib Baruah also mention how much we have lost in terms of jobs in the private sector because of insurgencies? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Assam red-faced over CAG report - Telegraph
Does Assam Government pay for the cost of running military operations in Assam? If yes, is it the same model for other states in India where the military has a similar role? --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, BTW, isn't the Assam govt. run by the same folks who hold the reins of the powers at Delhi? Is there a problem with this National Party? I really don't think the 'party' in power makes a difference. The Centeral Govt. set this up during the Vajpayee Admin. (there was probably a different admin in Assam too). Just because there is a change at the helm, it doesn't mean treaties and allocations change overnight. There may be policy changes but things that need to be funded continue.The Central Auditors do hold BOTH the Center and the State responsible for the proper use of allocated funds. That was their report. Now, whether the CM or others or even Central ministers get punished or even caught in this scam is a different matter and the auditors have no say in that. Suppose we assume that the Center slept these past 25 years, what happened to the GOA (all with Assamese interests), what did they do? They took the allocated funds, and spent and misused it - cash strapped or not. All the auditors did was follow the money trail, and unfortunately it led straight to the GOA. This is a normal procedure for all state allocations - the Centeral funds are allocated to the states for various projects, and the states (normally) try and get this done within the framework of solid accounting practices and are accountable for what and where they spend. And the auditors do their job. This type of scenario is often repeated. The voter ID cards - Assam logged in less than 1% completion, while every other state had atleast more than 50%. And who need voter IDs more than any other state? The same happened with the Asian Dev. Bank funds(loans) for the reorg of ASEB. From last reports, that money is nowhere to be found. Why did the Center give the funds to Assam to do the Center's job? Was it not aware of the corruption that goes on ? So, alongwith the Center, why not also blame the ADB for being so foolish to fund money to Assam? Oh!, I am sorry, the ADB probably had no clue about the rampant corruption in the state - its their fault anyway, for not researching well enough. --Ram On 8/9/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Center ought to send its own border construction team and get the job done. *** I think that would be jumping the gun. After all twenty five years is not that long. I mean for the Center to realize there is a problem, and that it has a duty to protect the borders, and not cry about its funds being 'mis-utilized' by a state that is already broke from having to pay for the Indian military who have found a permanent home in Assam? BTW, isn't the Assam govt. run by the same folks who hold the reins of the powers at Delhi? Is there a problem with this National Party? And if there is how can Assam get rid of its incompetent governance? Are there built-in safeguards in desi-demokrasy, or is it the people of Assam's own damn fault? What happened to the vaunted framework of 'steal', I mean steel--the Civil Services, the Center's CAN-DO cadres, that are supposed to manage the affairs of state with its cutting edge management skills? Or should we hold the people of Assam responsible for dereliction of its duty of not protecting the 'national' borders too? *** I see a propensity to blame Assam instead of holding those whose duty it is to protect the borders. Why did the Center give the funds to Assam to do the Center's job? Was it not aware of the corruption that goes on ? Or was it to help the right parties get the right contracts thru the leaky system in Assam? Not entirely out of the realm of possibilities, is it? At 10:03 AM -0500 8/9/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: The Gogoi admin has been diverting and misusing Central funds meant for border construction, and thus unable to implement the Assam Accord. Comptroller and Auditor General of India revealed that funds to the tune of Rs 7.53 crore provided between 1999 and 2004 for the project by the Centre had been diverted, misutilised and locked up to benefit the state PWD, irrigation, Assam State Electricity Board and bank, which has adversely affected the implementation of the project. Huh! And we still have die-hards who would like to put the blame squarely on Delhi as to why the border hasn't been completed. I would fault the Center for entrusting an incompetent State machinery to undertake such a major project. The Center ought to send its own border construction team and get the job done. ___ Issue Date: Tuesday, August 09,
Re: [Assam] The Irascible Prophet: V. S. Naipaul - NYT
Is there a contradiction or a double speak? In 1964 (An Area of Darkness) and 1974 (India: An Wounded civilization), he wrote about India with scathing criticism. In India of those times, the initial euphoria of independence had died down, corruption was seeping in in torrents and social structures were showing signs of decay. One of the important indicators of this perhaps could be the separatist tendencies that began to emerge in different parts of the country soon thereafter. So these books were not really out of context. It is just that an entire generation of Indians tried to hide behind the bombast of our supposed achievements aeons back and the harking of some elusive new socialist order even as things around them were falling apart. This generation and its societal leadership failed to digest any kind of criticism. Naipaul's latest writings on India - the book India: A million mutinies now and other articles - reflect what is going on right now in India. A sense of hope and aspiration for hundreds of millions of people, a pan-Indian feeling of nationalism (only some of which can be Hindutva) and the gargantuan aspirations of yet more hundreds of millions of people that want to move into the middle class (those that made India Shining lose). I don't see any conflict and contradiction. I see a brilliant insight (in his non-fiction) into current events and how it is going to shape the world. Events change, countries transition - ideas and writings need to change over time as well. Incidentally, Among the Believers, his 70s book on Islamic fundamentalism might as well have been written today. It is a great read. --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bhuban da, So far as his views on India and China are concerned, he is not alone in thinking in this vein. You are right, he is not alone. But what I find interesting is VSN's doublespeak, so to say. On the one hand he does not hold his punches, but nevertherless he cannot stop writing (and visiting) about India. I remember after reading his India a wounded Civilization, VSN (who at that time hadn't been to India) was full of expectations of how welcome he would be, when he landed in India, but was in for a rude shock. He soon found out that not only did any one NOT really care about an Indian expat from the West Indies, but he profoundly missed the red carpet. He does talk about the invisible thread that makes West Indians eager to visit India - even though generations before them have not. (a la Dr. Livingstone, or a Wordsworth yearning for Yarrow, and then being dissapointed) Maybe there is a lesson in there for our children/grandchildren who have settled down in the West. Would they also be pulled into such a vortex, full of expectations, but to be deflated upon arrival? I don't know? IHMO, visits to India (for someone who hasn't experienced it firsthand) ought to be withought any preconceived notions. That way they can actually enjoy all the mysticism and charms of an ancient country. But, I do agree with you with I hold the writer in great esteem and don't agree that he's a biased statesman as described at times by certain critics during the last two decades or so. I too find him interesting. --Ram On 8/8/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Ram, for making it possible for me to go through the piece on V S Naipaul by Rachel Donadio. It's glib, nonsensical talk from people who don't understand that holy war for Muslims is a religious war, and a religious war is something you never stop fighting. I suppose Nailpaul has just given the meaning of the words 'jihad' and 'dar al harb' (I forgot the exact words), which imply a continuing religious war. Although controversies exist regarding the true meaning of these words, it exists in one way or the other. So far as his views on India and China are concerned, he is not alone in thinking in this vein. Even of late respected American papers are subscribing to these views. As to great thinkers by the criteria of international recognition in given fields, there are few indeed. I've possibly read almost all the works by Naipaul but only vaguely remember the contents of his books; particularly those of the stories and novels. While being captivated by his fictional works, I also read a few of his commissioned works on contemporary histories of Africa, the Middle East and India. I hold the writer in great esteem and don't agree that he's a biased statesman as described at times by certain critics during the last two decades or so. Say, for example, his book describing India as the Dark Continent earned him no laurels in India. He had certainly incurred the displeasure of many people within and outside the Indian subcontinent because of his outspokenness in a number of issues.
Re: [Assam] What is the Matter with These People? ? From ToI
Education is not necessary to gauge whether an action is unjust to the point of being depraved. Ours is a society that digests (and shall I say thrives on) injustice on a day to day level. Never mind how educated we become. How much prosperity seeps into our middle class midst. How much of the rest of the world we see. As I have often repeated, we might have had only 3 ot 4 times in history where we have seen ideas emerge with leaders to execute them that were just. No wonder we have had so many years of foreign rule. I guess we need leaders again that will get the masses to rise - otherwise we will continue to bend societal institutions, effectively shut out new religions and corner the economic system. in the country, with the best educational institutions and 'corruption free' and more India than Indians ?? cm The untounchables Part - II what upper castes do to dalits, the dalits do to vannars Wretched of the Earth For Puthirai Vannars, the diktat is clear. They are destined to live as their ancestors did. And die everyday. Without self-dignity or aspirations. As slaves in modern India. That is why they ask: Who says India is free? By PC Vinoj Kumar Chennai Darkness Within: They carry the torch during wedding processions There have been cases where dalit men have raped our women. They bear the cost of abortion and put an end to the matter. The victimised women don't go to the police. There have been cases where dalit men have exploited our women when they go to get food from their houses - Irusan Ragupathi, president, Tamil Nadu Harijan Washermen Federation If given a choice, most Puthirai Vannar families would like to put an end to the practice of begging for food. They long for the day when they can cook at home, for it would give them a sense of self-dignity. But dalits don't allow them to cook. The reason is not far to seek. When the Vannars beg for food, it destroys their self-worth. The tradition perpetuates the slave mentality, pre-empts and crushes a rebellious spirit. It's worse than the slavery that existed in the West, says Professor A. Sivasubramanian, currently doing research on the community. People bought the slaves there. To a certain extent, they were looked after well because the owners had to suffer losses if they fell sick or died. But the Vannars have no such advantages. Dalits treat them just as slaves but refuse to take their responsibility in terms of welfare. In most ways, this social oppression is the mirror image of how dalits are treated by the upper castes all over India. Till date, in many villages, the Vannars cannot sit in front of a dalit. They are not allowed to take water from their street taps. When there is a death in a dalit house, we have to perform special duties. We prepare the dead body and make the padai (burial cast). As people walk to the crematorium, we are required to spread sarees on the ground before them to walk on it. After the rituals are completed, we sit down wearing a white dhoti and the mourners drop coins on it, says Santhappan of Velankani Nagar in Tiruvannamalai district. According to another tradition, the Vannars are required to carry the 'theepantham' (a flaming torch) during wedding processions. There is fire in their hand, and darkness within. Those defying this ancient heirarchy are repressed ruthlessly. There have been instances when Vannars in some villages have refused to beg for food. But they have either been forced to fall in line or driven out of the village. Rosamma of Elanthapet village in Cuddalore district decided to stop this daily house-to-house begging for food, and instead started cooking food at home. But she was forced to go back after direct threats from dalits. They forced me to eat the leftover food, she says. About two years ago, in Athanur in Villupuram district, a man was forced to eat leftover food by a dalit family. When he refused to eat, they chased him out of the village. The diktat is clear. If you are born a Vannar, you are destined for a predetermined way of life. Live as your ancestors did. Have no dreams or aspirations. Die everyday. All over the country, dalits suffer at the hands of upper caste people. As far as the Vannars are concerned, the same dalits are the perpetrators of atrocities against them. Irusan Ragupathi, state president of the Tamil Nadu Harijan Washermen Federation, a Puthirai Vannar outfit, talks of dalit atrocities. In many villages in Senji taluk in Villupuram district, dalit men have raped our women, then they bear the cost of abortion and tell us to keep shut. The victimised women don't go to the police. There have been cases where dalit men have exploited our women when they go to get food from their houses. The Vannars face other forms of harassment as
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Central leaders come to the state to campaign because people want to listen to them and then form opinions. The ULFA is not stopping elections to the state and federal level (at least not yet) - they are preventing leaders that PEOPLE IN ASSAM want them to vist from visiting during elections. After all, Narasimha Rao was never invited and Sonia Gandhi always is. The elections will happen, the state structure will remain the same. No change there. The only thing perhaps that will happen will be that the elections will be COERCED into having an outcome they want. If indeed the ULFA has such appeal amongst the masses - why issue a threat against political parties or civilians. Why not just appeal (not coerce, appeal) to the public to refrain from attending meetings that have central leaders in the interests of Assam. Without any threat whatsoever. Guess what would be the outcome amongst the people of such an appeal? --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Catch 22 here, isn't it? It sure is. No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. Many countries will allow you to at least challenge the validity of the Constitution in such cases. Even India does. So, violence and breaking laws is not the ONLY way out. But IF they see that IT IS the only way out, then, of course, those who defy such laws oughtn't to cry foul when they are hunted down. They know the rules of the game. The freedom they thus seek, if it does come, comes at a high price, and they should be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing Wonder what the US would do in such a situation? The US for all its might and glory and democratic institution, puts down such insurgent tendencies with swift and summary justice. They have no patience or do not as a policy go soft on such groups. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. C'da, its a two-way traffic. IMHO, the ULFA has to put down arms and stop violence before the GOI will give it any serious hearing. The GOI for all its faults can keep this festering for another 50 years without flinching, can the ULFA? In the end the people lose. --Ram On 8/4/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? Catch 22 here, isn't it? No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing . Even at this late date things could be done, reforms undertaken to address the causes of the insurgencies. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. That is the difference. At 1:46 PM -0500 8/4/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing praises of the establishment. I do not think just talking about seperation or freedom necessarily means that one could be killed or jailed. In the case of South Africa, Mandela paid a huge price. Others like Patrice Lulumba was hunted down and killed. Where do you see any tolerance for seditious behavior (whether freedom was warranted or not). Nations will, usually not tolerate such behavior, specially if they are violent. In this country, you have incidents like Ruby Ridge. I am not sure which democratic country will, in this day and age, tolerate a section of its population going violent because they want freedom? Can you or anyone, name one such country? Britain again, came close to your definition, when they allowed Mullas to preach violence in mosques on English soil. Now, with the bombings, even the British patience has run out. Those Mullas now
[Assam] A taste of their own bad medicine
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/bus.shooting/index.html Now Israeli terrorists kill Arab civilians. It is a crazy world. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
I wonder if there a synergistic connection here between the AAMSU diktat and the the ULFA diktat? Or is it a conflict? Specifically, is ALL this designed to - by the use of terror, direct or indirect - to influence elections against the wishes of the people? --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In another development, two frontline minority groups, representing Muslims and Bengali-speaking people in Assam, have decided to block the entry of politicians belonging to the AGP and the BJP into areas dominated by religious and linguistic minorities. The All Assam Minority Students' Union (AAMSU) and the All Assam Minority Yuva Parishad have taken the decision to protest the role played by the AGP and the BJP in getting the Supreme Court to strike down the Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunals) Act on identifying illegal Bangladeshis. The two parties were actively involved in getting the IMDT Act repealed and we cannot forgive them. Now genuine Indians will be harassed in the name of detection and deportation of illegal foreigners, AAMSU leader Sabibur Rahman said. The two groups command a lot of clout in pockets dominated by Muslims and Bengali-speaking settlers. Muslims and Bengali-speaking voters in Assam hold the key to winning elections in at least 40 of the 126 assembly constituencies. Muslims account for about 30 percent of Assam's 26 million people. See: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1187410.cms Comments? ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] re: why conscetious Hindus should not go to GuruVayoor
But he is a long standing devotee as well - most of his songs are Hindu devotional songs! And yet!! --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:34 PM + 7/31/05, priyankoo sarma wrote: One of the devotees of the Guruvayyur Temple is the famous singer Yesudas. The fun thing is that, every now and then he donates large sum of money and paintings to the GV temple, but he is still not allowed inside. *** Why is Yesudas not allowed into the temple? Is he a Christian? anecdote courtesy: my Mallu friends, Jobin etc.! Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari... The most important thing in life is never to forget who you are... http://plaza.ufl.edu/priyanku http://clients.rediff.com/signature/track_sig.asp ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpagefile_name=story3%2Etxtcounter_img=3?headline=ULFA~diktat:~No~entry~for~'outside'~vote-seekers Another tactic this time. Not allowing central leaders of national parties to campaign in Assam. Or else, guess what will happen? I wonder what kind of a democracy will be there in independent Assam. __ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Re: Truth?? police encounter shooting in UK metro
Is that all true? I mean about the comparison between the bobby and the thulla? I agree with you on the decision to put those 8 (wasn't 1 enough?) bullets through the head of a guy running away despite police entreaties and that too with a long coat on. But c'mon - the bobby has had only the first case of bombing from the mullahs. The Indian army has had it happening for sometime now. One hit and the Muslim community has threats, graffiti, mosque burning and what not coming in from the general populace. What happens when that happens on a fairly regular basis -let's say once every month or so for the next 10 years? I am sure they will be butchered way before that. Let's not give the bobby too much credit - wasn't his ancestor responsible for Jallian Wala Bagh? Wasn't British policy one of absolute passivity all these years - give all these Jihadists that create trouble all over the world shelter. Till they come home to roost. Finally, when the very same guys (idealogicially speaking) did the Bombay blasts not too long back (and there were 500 killed, not 50) - the British government (or was it the EU) that had the gall to call upon India to solve Kashmir to prevent these killings. We need the bobby to be putting in those bullets. We also need the protestors to be keeping them on the edge. Hopefully therein they would find a balance over the long term term. --- Rini Kakati [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - The difference between the Indian Army and British Bobby is -- the Indian Army do it all the time in a callous, calculative and well planned manner. Whereas the police officer in London had to do it in split seconds. This morning when I walk past the high street I saw few people waving placards reading Racist killers, No shoot to kill. In my mind to say how lucky you guys are ! -- you are not one of those innocents killed in 7 July. But none of these idealistic protesters have put themselves in the shoe of the undoubtedly courageous police officers who are struggling to protect Britain from the ever -- burgeoning threat of terrorism. It was human error and we all do it. But the difference in other professions, can apologise for their mistakes and move on. It is never that simple for a police officer on what is rapidly becoming the war-style front line of crime fighting in Britain. If the Brazilian had been a suicide bomber, shouting to injure would'nt have prevented him from detonating a bomb. If it is my son I'd be shouting and screaming and demanding a full explanation into how this terrible mistake robbed an innocent man of his life. Looking at it objectively, what is the alternative ?. This is a terrible tragic mistake and no one wishes to distract from the grief suffered by Jean Charles de Menzes' family. But if this country and everyday commuter like myself is going to stand a chance of beating terrorism then Sir Ian Blair (Met Commissioner) is right to say the shoot-to-kill policy stays in place. Rini Kakati - Winks nudges are here - Download MSN Messenger 7.0 today! ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] 9/11 - Development--learn from Saudi Arabia's downhill per capitaincome - versus Japan
The export of militant idealogy happens through the Wahabbi institution - in terms of funds they are the second most important priority - after the king's family. Saudi families may go without jobs but the Wahabbis get their money. Because without their support the House of Saud might as well not exist. The House of Saud has enough funds to keep funding the idealogy for as long as they choose to - at least as long as we are alive. --- Rajen Barua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can we learn from Saudi Arabians who are sitting on their haunches - and getting poorer despite owning 25% of the world's oil --- whereas Japan grew without ANY mineral resources to become the second largest world economy? Good analysis. I think somebody is exploiting the Saudis. I think the Assamese and the Saudi Arabians are proving, albeit in their own different ways, that having oil in your yard does not guaranty that you will be rich. Like the Saudis producing 25% of World oil, Assam is producing about 25% of India's oil. Lesson to be learnt. Rajen Barua - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:27 PM Subject: [Assam] 9/11 - Development--learn from Saudi Arabia's downhill per capitaincome - versus Japan Hi, I was going thru many books in Martin Luther King - the main DC public library at China Town - which even has a mural with Mahatma Gandhi's image- and somebody had just read this book 9/11 commiission report -- it had info on Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. I was surprised to learn that Saudi Arabia's per capita income (supposed to be nearly as high as Switzerland $28,000 per annum when I was in high school) has fallen to just as much as that of Chile -- just $12,000 -- about the same as Malaysia. Hopefully, a poor Saudi Arabia would not be able to fund terrorism (15 out of the 19 - 9/11 terrorists were from this country) in near future at all - when it become as poor as Bangladesh or worse - since it does not allow female education or voting in elcetions. http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sa.html can we learn from Saudi Arabians who are sitting on their haunches - and getting poorer despite owning 25% of the world's oil --- whereas Japan grew without ANY mineral resources to become the second largest world ecxonomy? Umesh -- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail -- ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Fear-stricken Manipur engineers submit resignation -The Hindu
Is it any different anywhere else in the north east? Isn't Assam the same? --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a sad state of affairs. The Govt. has reserved 15% contracts for surrendered militants, but in reality they corner all contracts and projects. The common people in Manipur seem to be living in fear in this gun and dada-giri culture. __ Iboyaima Laithangbam IMPHAL: Harassed by anti-social elements, 230 engineers of the Manipur Public Works Department have put in their papers en masse. But Chief Minister Okram Ibobi, who holds the Personnel portfolio, has refused to accept the resignations. A few hundred engineers of the Irrigation and Flood Control Department and the Public Health Engineering Department are expected to follow suit. Talking to mediapersons, PWD chief engineer N.G. Rashtrapati said the State Government had not taken steps to protect the engineers. On July 1 PWD executive engineer R.K. Mobisana was kneecapped in his house. Following threats to his life, Mr. Mobisana twice requested the State Government to provide security guards twice but to no avail. On the contrary, he was punished for refusing to give in to gunmen's demands, said Mr. Rashtrapati. The incident sparked fear in all engineers.Earlier, chief engineers S. Brajamani and O. Digendra took voluntary retirement, unable to withstand harassment. As part of a rehabilitation policy, 15 per cent of contracts and other projects in all government departments were reserved for surrendered insurgents. This policy is said to be behind the recent problem. Though such reservation was officially closed, reports suggest that gunmen corner almost all contracts. ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] From ToI -conversions
Let me specifically answer the question C'da has raised: In Kohima, the sole Hindu temple was brought down with total connivance of the local government, police and offcourse the mobs. LK Advani was enraged. I think this was last year. Pashupatinath Mandir in Senapati district of Manipur was burnt down in 1995 by the NSCN. And there are offcourse systemic injustices perpetrated against the Riyangs in Mizoram because they are Hindus. Maybe when I have some more time, I will come out with a longer list. You could google and find out the truths about some of these. It would be laughable idea if someone says there is no Christian hegemony in some of the states. It would be even more laughable if some one says the Church does not bless such atrocities. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would suggest that she also make a trip to the North East - Meghalaya, Tripura or Mizoram and see how Hindus are treated there by the tribal Christians. How are Hindus treated there? I never heard of harassment of Hindus in the NE Christian areas before. Can you refer us to some credible source? At 4:44 PM +0100 6/30/05, umesh sharma wrote: C-da, I find it absurd that she was sent a FAX to threaten her. Perhaps VHP has gone nuts. The rape threat was made by Hindus - no doubt - but by anonymous phone call. Anyone of the Hindus in Orissa could have made the call - maybe even the Christian missionaries or their evangelist supporters. That said, I do not approve of threats or acts of physical violence . I do belive in countering evangelists' aggresive christianization by free competition to win co-religionists. Even today I was singled out to be given some pamphalet on Jesus in the bus - no white person was offered. I would suggest that she also make a trip to the North East - Meghalaya, Tripura or Mizoram and see how Hindus are treated there by the tribal Christians. Umesh Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'Sangh Parivar activists threatened to rape us' VIJI SUNDARAM INDIAWEST[ THURSDAY, JUNE 30, 2005 10:36:22 AM ] Surf 'N' Earn -Sign innow San Francisco-based academic Angana Chatterji, along with other women members of the Indian People's Tribunal on Environment and Human Rights, was allegedly threatened with rape by some members of the Sangh Parivar on June 14 while investigating the spread of communalism and human rights violations in Orissa. The women claim they were defamed, insulted and falsely accused of bias as they were deposing residents of Bhubaneswar, some from the Sangh Parivar itself. The Hindu nationalist organizations (Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Rashtriya Sevika Samiti) have maligned and targeted the Tribunal and its members, wrote Chatterji in a letter to India's National Human Righ! ts Commission, calling for an investigation. . . . Especially, they have continued to directly intimidate and verbally attack me since the incident, as I remain in Orissa for a few days to continue the Tribunal's work. The Indian People's Tribunal on Environment and Human Rights was formed June 5, 1993. Its stated purpose is to conduct fair and credible investigations focusing on issues concerning human rights and environmental justice. Chatterji said she has been working for the rights of the oppressed in Orissa since 1995. The alleged threats came by fax from the state office of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, lambasting the tribunal as a group of leftists, fellow travelers and Hindu baiters. The fax made a pointed reference to Chatterji, an associate professor of anthropology at the San Francisco-based California... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1156238,curpg-4.cms ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/messenger/*http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/messenger/*http://uk.beta.messenger.yahoo.com calling worldwide with voicemail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing
Re: [Assam] From ToI -conversions
I assume you realize you are muddling (or trying to)
muddle issues. Your question was one of specific
instances. You have them there.
--- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In Kohima, the sole Hindu temple was brought down
with
total connivance of the local government, police
and
offcourse the mobs. LK Advani was enraged. I think
this was last year.
What happened to the laws of the land that
ought to prevent such things?
Could not LKA, as the leader of the opposition or
the shadow PM, go
to Kohima to prevent it? Was his stature of no
consequence? Where did
them Christians get such UN-Indian, un-secular
ideas? I am outraged!
And there are offcourse systemic injustices
perpetrated against the Riyangs in Mizoram because
they are Hindus.
*** How very un-Hindu, un_Indian acts. There oughtta
be a law!
It would be laughable idea if someone says there is
no
Christian hegemony in some of the states.
*** Amazing! Imagine religious hegemony and
bigotries in India, the
secular democracy the world is attempting to
emulate!
I bet the way to fix it will be to impose Hinduism
as the State
Religion of India. That ought to teach them n
minorities a lesson.
At 9:46 AM -0700 6/30/05, Rajib Das wrote:
Let me specifically answer the question C'da has
raised:
In Kohima, the sole Hindu temple was brought down
with
total connivance of the local government, police
and
offcourse the mobs. LK Advani was enraged. I think
this was last year.
Pashupatinath Mandir in Senapati district of
Manipur
was burnt down in 1995 by the NSCN.
And there are offcourse systemic injustices
perpetrated against the Riyangs in Mizoram because
they are Hindus.
Maybe when I have some more time, I will come out
with
a longer list. You could google and find out the
truths about some of these.
It would be laughable idea if someone says there is
no
Christian hegemony in some of the states. It would
be
even more laughable if some one says the Church
does
not bless such atrocities.
--- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would suggest that she also make a trip to
the
North East -
Meghalaya, Tripura or Mizoram and see how
Hindus
are treated there
by the tribal Christians.
How are Hindus treated there? I never
heard of
harassment of
Hindus in the NE Christian areas before. Can you
refer us to some
credible source?
At 4:44 PM +0100 6/30/05, umesh sharma wrote:
C-da,
I find it absurd that she was sent a FAX to
threaten her. Perhaps
VHP has gone nuts. The rape threat was made by
Hindus - no doubt -
but by anonymous phone call. Anyone of the
Hindus
in Orissa could
have made the call - maybe even the Christian
missionaries or their
evangelist supporters.
That said, I do not approve of threats or acts
of
physical violence
. I do belive in countering evangelists'
aggresive
christianization
by free competition to win co-religionists.
Even
today I was singled
out to be given some pamphalet on Jesus in the
bus
- no white person
was offered.
I would suggest that she also make a trip to
the
North East -
Meghalaya, Tripura or Mizoram and see how
Hindus
are treated there
by the tribal Christians.
Umesh
Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
'Sangh Parivar activists threatened to rape us'
VIJI SUNDARAM
INDIAWEST[ THURSDAY, JUNE 30, 2005 10:36:22 AM
]
Surf 'N' Earn -Sign innow
San Francisco-based academic Angana Chatterji,
along with other women
members of the Indian People's Tribunal on
Environment and Human
Rights, was allegedly threatened with rape by
some
members of the
Sangh Parivar on June 14 while investigating
the
spread of
communalism and human rights violations in
Orissa.
The women claim they were defamed, insulted and
falsely accused of
bias as they were deposing residents of
Bhubaneswar, some from the
Sangh Parivar itself.
The Hindu nationalist organizations (Bajrang
Dal,
Vishwa Hindu
Parishad and Rashtriya Sevika Samiti) have
maligned
and targeted the
Tribunal and its members, wrote Chatterji in a
letter to India's
National Human Righ! ts Commission, calling for
an
investigation. . .
. Especially, they have continued to directly
intimidate and verbally
attack me since the incident, as I remain in
Orissa
for a few days to
continue the Tribunal's work.
The Indian People's Tribunal on Environment and
Human Rights was
formed June 5, 1993. Its stated purpose is to
=== message truncated ===
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Re: [Assam] From ToI -conversions
But I was flabbergasted by Rajib's righteous and straight faced citation of LKA's outrage at the Kohima temple demolition, coloring my response. Now, now! LKA was an addendum to the main news. There is no righteousness on my part. It is just information for you to consume. In Kohima, the Nagas brought down a temple and LKA was outraged. That was news. I understand you needed to color your response based on the fact that facts were being produced for you. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Indians bastards, Bitch Indira! Can Assam born in US be proud Indians again?
It is --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can Assam born in US be proud Indians again? *** Interesting question :-). cm ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] some top Harvard alumni/attendees from India -from Harvard Alumni website
There are many Baruas in Chittagong in Bangladesh - they form the part of the sizable Buddhist (?) community there. Are they Assamese? --- Gautam Choudhury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is heartening to find 3 Assamese (I suppose Baruas are Assamese only) amongst 8 Indian ex-Harvard luminaries. We are really proud of them. At the same time, it makes me also sad that unlike the other Indian, none of them made return to Assam (for whatever the reason may be). It seems the Assamese goes abroad with a mind never to return and in next 2 generations we find no Assamese in them. Regards Gautam CHoudhury --- umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TATA, Ratan N. Mr.House Harvard EducationAMP - Advanced Management Program 1974 Business (Preferred)Tata Industries Limited Bombay House 24 Homi Mody Street Bombay, MS 41 India GANDHI, Rahul Mr.House Harvard EducationCOL - Harvard College 1993 (1990-1993) he only attended so no degree is mentioned with his name BARUA, Gautam G. Mr.House Harvard EducationMBA - Master of Business Administration 1997 With Distinction Home (Preferred)3759 Fillmore Street #6 San Francisco, CA 94123 TitleManaging Director OccupationConsulting Work StatusFull Time Empld Business Barua, Blok Company 3759 Fillmore Street San Francisco, CA 94123 ph: (415) 531-5317 fax: (419) 821-6363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] BAJAJ, Rahul Mr.House Harvard EducationMBA - Master of Business Administration 1964 Business (Preferred)Bajaj Auto Ltd Bombay-Pune Road Akurdi Pune, 411035 India MATHUR, Alok Mr.House Harvard EducationEDM - Master of Education 1991 Home (Preferred)Rishi Valley School Rishi Valley Chittoor District Andhra Pradesh, 517352 India SHARMA, Prabhu D. Mr.House Harvard EducationEDM - Master of Education 1949 HAZARIKA, Rajneesh S. Dr.House Harvard EducationSM - Master of Science 2002 Home (Preferred)40 Commons Drive Apt # 10 Shrewsbury, MA 01545 ph: (857) 205-1346 Title OccupationMedical Doctor Work StatusFull Time Empld [EMAIL PROTECTED] BARUA, Phani KumarHouse Harvard EducationBUS - Graduate School of Business Admin 1951 (1949-1950) Home (Preferred)21 Vasant Mohal C Road, Churchgate Mumbai, 400 020 India - How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Free antispam, antivirus and 1GB to save all your messages Only in Yahoo! Mail: http://in.mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Nagas want joint defence with India
Here is another article in Pioneer: http://dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front %5Fpagefile_name=story2%2Etxtcounter_img=2 Question is how does a Congress government under the Nehru Gandhi family squander away the understanding in less than a year? Another surprising observation: Isaac Muivah and RK Sudarshan (of RSS)think the same of Nehru! Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Correspondent, why avoid asking , No peace without Sovereignty restored?
Right on! But then with her or against her is going a bit far, isn't it? It is immaterial whether you are with her or against her. Or for that matter ignore her. She is just a messenger that has just her standing in Indian and Assamese society to move forward on. She does not have deterrant capabilities, she does not have feet on the streets, she does not have money to move any things. The problem still remains one of you are either with GOI (or against) OR to a far lesser extent with ULFA (or against). --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: MRG cannot be seen as taking sides (GOI or ULFA). If she is, then she loses credibility. Her role ought to be just to facilitate the talks and act as a conduit for messages back forth. It should be nothing more. What do you think are the chances of MRG coming seeking approval on what you or I might deem she SHOULD do? In this case, it is with her or against her. There is no middle ground. She is not submitting to desi-democratic-decisions her. She is doing what she feels need doing. At 12:08 PM -0500 6/15/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Only thing I get is that some of our fine, morally upstanding, loyal, patriotic desi-demokrasy bhokots are burnt up for MRG's support of ULFA's determination to go into negotiations without surrendering to GoI demands first, like they seek, but are afraid to express it. Huh! Are they? So they attempt to have it both ways ---support MRG, but don't want ULFA to be able to go to negotiations without renouncing their main objective. Let Ulfa keep its demands intact. That is what they have said all along. So, we know that, and its not anything new. What people may not want is that the GOI capitulate or agree to demands that they really cannot realistically fulfill. MRG cannot be seen as taking sides (GOI or ULFA). If she is, then she loses credibility. Her role ought to be just to facilitate the talks and act as a conduit for messages back forth. It should be nothing more. --Ram On 6/15/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi A: That is very very subtle indeed. Sorry I missed it altogether. You know how I am, just an old Jokaisukiya black and white, right or wrong, my way or the highway type , down to earth dude, unable to differentiate nuances of statecraft and politics :-). Thanks for attempting to set it straight. But what is the difference A? I still don't get it :-). Only thing I get is that some of our fine, morally upstanding, loyal, patriotic desi-demokrasy bhokots are burnt up for MRG's support of ULFA's determination to go into negotiations without surrendering to GoI demands first, like they seek, but are afraid to express it. So they attempt to have it both ways ---support MRG, but don't want ULFA to be able to go to negotiations without renouncing their main objective. I don't know A. I don't see any moral clarity here :-). c-da At 11:15 AM -0500 6/15/05, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: Hi C'da: Aapunar siro-porisito aao-paak loguwa kotha-khini porhi robo nuwarilu aaru. :) So you don't support MRG really, because she has insisted with the GoI that they OUGHT to discuss the ULFA's central demand--that of sovereignty for Assam. I don't remember reading anywhere that MRG insisted with the GOI that they OUGHT to discuss the ULFA's central demand - the sovereignty for Assam, but read that the 'talk' between the two must take place, even if it includes the topic of Assam's sovereinty. From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rajen Barua [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] Correspondent, why avoid asking , No peace without Sovereignty restored? Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:58:59 -0500 So you don't support MRG really, because she has insisted with the GoI that they OUGHT to discuss the ULFA's central demand--that of sovereignty for Assam. But you cannot say that, and instead indulge in semantics, attempting to have it both ways. You sure have made a very impressive stand here Rajen--one of principled courage :-) At 10:57 AM -0500 6/15/05, Rajen Barua wrote: No I don't think I am changing the context. : When MRG says: I am sympathetic to the causes the ULFA have been fighting for the past 25 years. Whether they would get a sovereign state or not is a different matter, but it should be discussed at the negotiating table. she does not seem to mean ULFA should have the RIGHT to bring the topic to the negotiating table. === message truncated === __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email,
Re: [Assam] From The ToI
In my judgement :-), there is no good programmer on the horizon. Looks like you are judging. So am I. As citizens, I assume we both have the qualifications to do. Unless you believe there should be a dictatorship - by definition it is then going to be a bad program. You are looking at the judge's qualification or the programmer's? As a judge, I would look at basic qualifications of the programmer such as whether he knows the programming language at all or not. The programmer in this case does not seem to have learned the programming language at all :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 9:31 AM -0700 6/11/05, Rajib Das wrote: When a bad programmer sets out to create a NEW software program, ALL you get is garbage. What part of garbage everywhere is so hard to fathom? *** How about a good programmer? Is he already under commitment to the powers that be and thus unavailable? Or is it that the program in place is already at the cutting edge, and thus no meaningful improvement is foreseeable? Also WHO is deciding the QUALITY of the programmer, and determining it is bad, or will be bad? Does this judge have a record to wave as a reliable judge, either from past record or from demonstrated expertise? --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6:39 PM -0700 6/10/05, Rajib Das wrote: Somehow I fail to understand, how without this cloning (in a sovereign entity) this is going to be any different. *** Clone of a defective system is more defective progeny. What part of 'garbage in, garbage out' hard to fathom? The cloning effect not only touches the GOA, evidently it touches the militants and the intellectuals as well. Nothing selective about this cloning effect in Assam. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? *** That is because you are selective about what you want to read or hear, Ram. In fact this kind of thing is the rule and not the exception. But I will be sure to post something like this for your info., when I come across one. At 4:35 PM -0500 6/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, *** Incisive, steel trap minded observation Ram. Thanks for the compliment, though throughly undeserving. Goes to prove, once again, that the Assamese are unfit to govern themselves. That is your unique way of gross generalizations. No, I was only referring to the GOA. The Assamese (people) were in fact the victims. It is the GOA that is not able to govern. A situation like this where someone is held in Tezpur for 58 years, never produced for trial - ie the individual was basically forgotten by the GOA. And its not just one case, there were 5. It is no use saying that the GOA has learned this from the Center, because I seriously doubt, if you will find such cases in other states, where prisoners and inmates are forgotten by the authorities to fall between the cracks and ignored for eternity. If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? Wern't they also cloned in the GOI's image. --Ram On 6/10/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And in the end, as usual, it took an outside body (the NHRC) to point this out to the GOA. *** Incisive, steel trap minded observation Ram. Goes to prove, once again, that the Assamese are unfit to govern themselves. But of course the system of justice of desi-demokrasy and the Assam Govt cloned in the likeness of Indian Govt. has nothing to do with anything. Hurricane force spinning Ram, that is what is :-) At 3:27 PM -0500 6/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, This is indeed shocking and really disturbing. I am little confused by the term 'under-trial'. Are these people awaiting a trial, once they are held mentally competent to do so? In any case this is just horrible. NHRC has come upon a case of five undertrials who have spent decades === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http
Re: [Assam] From The ToI
Hehehe... Didn't you notice the public summarily dismissing your case? :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my judgement :-) *** And I rest my case :-). At 11:40 PM -0700 6/11/05, Rajib Das wrote: In my judgement :-), there is no good programmer on the horizon. Looks like you are judging. So am I. As citizens, I assume we both have the qualifications to do. Unless you believe there should be a dictatorship - by definition it is then going to be a bad program. You are looking at the judge's qualification or the programmer's? As a judge, I would look at basic qualifications of the programmer such as whether he knows the programming language at all or not. The programmer in this case does not seem to have learned the programming language at all :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 9:31 AM -0700 6/11/05, Rajib Das wrote: When a bad programmer sets out to create a NEW software program, ALL you get is garbage. What part of garbage everywhere is so hard to fathom? *** How about a good programmer? Is he already under commitment to the powers that be and thus unavailable? Or is it that the program in place is already at the cutting edge, and thus no meaningful improvement is foreseeable? Also WHO is deciding the QUALITY of the programmer, and determining it is bad, or will be bad? Does this judge have a record to wave as a reliable judge, either from past record or from demonstrated expertise? --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6:39 PM -0700 6/10/05, Rajib Das wrote: Somehow I fail to understand, how without this cloning (in a sovereign entity) this is going to be any different. *** Clone of a defective system is more defective progeny. What part of 'garbage in, garbage out' hard to fathom? The cloning effect not only touches the GOA, evidently it touches the militants and the intellectuals as well. Nothing selective about this cloning effect in Assam. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? *** That is because you are selective about what you want to read or hear, Ram. In fact this kind of thing is the rule and not the exception. But I will be sure to post something like this for your info., when I come across one. At 4:35 PM -0500 6/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, *** Incisive, steel trap minded observation Ram. Thanks for the compliment, though throughly undeserving. Goes to prove, once again, that the Assamese are unfit to govern themselves. That is your unique way of gross generalizations. No, I was only referring to the GOA. The Assamese (people) were in fact the victims. It is the GOA that is not able to govern. A situation like this where someone is held in Tezpur for 58 years, never produced for trial - ie the individual was basically forgotten by the GOA. And its not just one case, there were 5. It is no use saying that the GOA has learned this from the Center, because I seriously doubt, if you will find such cases in other states, where prisoners and inmates are forgotten by the authorities to fall between the cracks and ignored for eternity. If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? Wern't they also cloned in the GOI's image. --Ram === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] NHRC
As always true to form :-) My response was to the question you posed about whether they have done anything in the NE. After the NCW stepped in, the hue and cry got a little more huer and cryer. Last I heard, the Assam Rifles was forced to exit Kangla Fort and they were placed under the dispensation of the Manipur Government. AFSPA was removed from Imphal municipality. The Government of Manmohan Singh set up a committee to review AFSPA - the committee includes amogst others such notables as Sanjoy Hazarika. It submitted its report this month. __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] From The ToI
When a bad programmer sets out to create a NEW software program, ALL you get is garbage. What part of garbage everywhere is so hard to fathom? --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6:39 PM -0700 6/10/05, Rajib Das wrote: Somehow I fail to understand, how without this cloning (in a sovereign entity) this is going to be any different. *** Clone of a defective system is more defective progeny. What part of 'garbage in, garbage out' hard to fathom? The cloning effect not only touches the GOA, evidently it touches the militants and the intellectuals as well. Nothing selective about this cloning effect in Assam. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? *** That is because you are selective about what you want to read or hear, Ram. In fact this kind of thing is the rule and not the exception. But I will be sure to post something like this for your info., when I come across one. At 4:35 PM -0500 6/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, *** Incisive, steel trap minded observation Ram. Thanks for the compliment, though throughly undeserving. Goes to prove, once again, that the Assamese are unfit to govern themselves. That is your unique way of gross generalizations. No, I was only referring to the GOA. The Assamese (people) were in fact the victims. It is the GOA that is not able to govern. A situation like this where someone is held in Tezpur for 58 years, never produced for trial - ie the individual was basically forgotten by the GOA. And its not just one case, there were 5. It is no use saying that the GOA has learned this from the Center, because I seriously doubt, if you will find such cases in other states, where prisoners and inmates are forgotten by the authorities to fall between the cracks and ignored for eternity. If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? Wern't they also cloned in the GOI's image. --Ram On 6/10/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And in the end, as usual, it took an outside body (the NHRC) to point this out to the GOA. *** Incisive, steel trap minded observation Ram. Goes to prove, once again, that the Assamese are unfit to govern themselves. But of course the system of justice of desi-demokrasy and the Assam Govt cloned in the likeness of Indian Govt. has nothing to do with anything. Hurricane force spinning Ram, that is what is :-) At 3:27 PM -0500 6/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, This is indeed shocking and really disturbing. I am little confused by the term 'under-trial'. Are these people awaiting a trial, once they are held mentally competent to do so? In any case this is just horrible. NHRC has come upon a case of five undertrials who have spent decades in jail This is a serious blot on successive governments in Assam, the local administration of mental institutions etc. And in the end, as usual, it took an outside body (the NHRC) to point this out to the GOA. If they did not, the GOA, would have never have on their own to either point this out or take steps to remedy it. --Ram On 6/10/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Torture that goes beyond madness TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 2005 09:03:45 PM ] Surf 'N' Earn -Sign innow NEW DELHI: If any proof of the complete failure of criminal justice system was needed, here are not one but five examples. NHRC has come upon a case of five undertrials who have spent decades in jail. One of them has spent 54 years in jail, while the other four have prison experience of more than three decades each. All are now inmates of a mental hospital in Tezpur. An upset commission on Friday asked inspector general (prisons), Assam, and the state's chief secretary to respond within two weeks. The matter was reported to the commission by its rapporteur Chaman === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Re: Assam Digest, Vol 21, Issue 64
I have always wondered if Assam started at the same starting line with TN or Andhra or what have you, and if the astute judges of this Whether it started at the same starting line or not, aren't some of these true: a. Most of the thrust in development in those named states happened in the last 20 years. b. Assam ranks from the bottom 3rd or 5th (I am not sure) - net net it is very near Bihar in those rankings than Tamil Nadu. c. Much of these achievements for Assam of going down in ranking happened in the last 20 years. Assam perhaps was better off at the starting line. And then went down. If you were to take a timescale graph of development, it might have been a split Y inverted 90 degrees. The ones going up for Tamil Nadu and the one going down for Assam. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] From The ToI
Somehow I fail to understand, how without this cloning (in a sovereign entity) this is going to be any different. The cloning effect not only touches the GOA, evidently it touches the militants and the intellectuals as well. Nothing selective about this cloning effect in Assam. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? *** That is because you are selective about what you want to read or hear, Ram. In fact this kind of thing is the rule and not the exception. But I will be sure to post something like this for your info., when I come across one. At 4:35 PM -0500 6/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, *** Incisive, steel trap minded observation Ram. Thanks for the compliment, though throughly undeserving. Goes to prove, once again, that the Assamese are unfit to govern themselves. That is your unique way of gross generalizations. No, I was only referring to the GOA. The Assamese (people) were in fact the victims. It is the GOA that is not able to govern. A situation like this where someone is held in Tezpur for 58 years, never produced for trial - ie the individual was basically forgotten by the GOA. And its not just one case, there were 5. It is no use saying that the GOA has learned this from the Center, because I seriously doubt, if you will find such cases in other states, where prisoners and inmates are forgotten by the authorities to fall between the cracks and ignored for eternity. If 'cloning' was the problem, how is that we don't read about stark examples from other states? Wern't they also cloned in the GOI's image. --Ram On 6/10/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And in the end, as usual, it took an outside body (the NHRC) to point this out to the GOA. *** Incisive, steel trap minded observation Ram. Goes to prove, once again, that the Assamese are unfit to govern themselves. But of course the system of justice of desi-demokrasy and the Assam Govt cloned in the likeness of Indian Govt. has nothing to do with anything. Hurricane force spinning Ram, that is what is :-) At 3:27 PM -0500 6/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, This is indeed shocking and really disturbing. I am little confused by the term 'under-trial'. Are these people awaiting a trial, once they are held mentally competent to do so? In any case this is just horrible. NHRC has come upon a case of five undertrials who have spent decades in jail This is a serious blot on successive governments in Assam, the local administration of mental institutions etc. And in the end, as usual, it took an outside body (the NHRC) to point this out to the GOA. If they did not, the GOA, would have never have on their own to either point this out or take steps to remedy it. --Ram On 6/10/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Torture that goes beyond madness TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 2005 09:03:45 PM ] Surf 'N' Earn -Sign innow NEW DELHI: If any proof of the complete failure of criminal justice system was needed, here are not one but five examples. NHRC has come upon a case of five undertrials who have spent decades in jail. One of them has spent 54 years in jail, while the other four have prison experience of more than three decades each. All are now inmates of a mental hospital in Tezpur. An upset commission on Friday asked inspector general (prisons), Assam, and the state's chief secretary to respond within two weeks. The matter was reported to the commission by its rapporteur Chaman Lal who visited the hospital on March 31 and April 1. While all cases are shocking, the worst is the plight of Machang Lalung, now 77, who has been an undertrial for 54 years. The others are Khalilur Rehman, who has spent 35 years there, Anil Kumar Burman, who has been there for 33 years, Sonamani Deb, for 32 years, and Parbati Mallik, who has been in the mental asylum for 32 years. Lalung now works in the hospital garden without communicating with anybody. The medical superintendent has stated that he is not on any psychotropic medicine for several years and is free of any active signs of mental illness. Despite that, Lalung has not been produced in the trial court after August 9, 1967. Similarly, Rehman has been in the judicial custody since 1963 and continues to be in judicial custody despite being declared fit. Burman also remained at the institute despite being fit to be discharged from April 20, 1974. Deb's case is equally shocking. He was admitted to the hospital in 1972 at the age of 16 years. A destitute, he
Re: [Assam] NHRC
The NHRC (or the NCW - National Commission for Women) was involved in the situation in Manipur - the rape in custody of a Manipuri woman recently. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://nhrc.nic.in/NHRC is a legally chartered, govt. body, not an NGO. There are dozens of cases cited. Many on custodial deaths and encounter killings, but sy urprisingly NONE from Assam or the NE. Obviously such things don't happen there :-( ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Daam Borhwa Resignation?
Chan Da, I am not aware of what you believe, but I can tell you that in present India, Congress along with Lalooa's RJD the red brigade are the sole bearer cum protector of Secularism in India. But are they? The Congress has never been secular. Way back it played the Hindu card against Jinnah, it played the Brahmin hegemony card for at least 45 years after independence, it nurtured parochial, religious leaders like Bhindrawale who came to bite them and where it suited them, it brought in, illegally, Muslim migrants for vote bank politics in many places. Lalooa's RJD is an out and out casteist party of MY - Muslims / Yadavs. Caste or religion or ethnicity - if you choose either over the whole you are not secular. And the red brigade... They are dead anyway. __ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Daam Borhwa Resignation?
*** You and Rajib miss the point entirely. Looks like, I don't. Read my previous mail. However, whether India can survive without being secular is out for debate. Like you said India must realize ancient (and modern) Hindu bigotries. It must realize why a major country could forge itself into a real country (well, almost) only 4 times in its 5000 years of history. It must also realize why it remained under foreign rule (Islamic and British) for 1000 years. That does not mean however that secularism is the answer. Whichever way India moves forward, it needs a major revision of Hindu religious practice into one where every participant is equal. Perhaps we need as much a Sankardev as a Manmohan Singh. Without that, most of India will still not be emancipated. Besides we need an expansive version of the religion that has the capacity to absorb others and give those others a fair share. After years of secular politics, Europe finds itself scared shitless of the unarmed Muslim invasion - the hordes of practicing Muslims that outnumber practicing Christians in France today. To admit a Muslim country (Turkey) into the EU it goes into convulsions. A secular existence might still be possible if for example Muslim thought undergoes radical change. Religion is not about to go away in this millenium - it has never gone away for most of human existence. And so long as any religion gives itself a primacy over others and calls its flocks to its own political system, something other the nation will compete for primacy. Asking for such change from Islam is asking for too much. Forcing change - such as getting a national church or a national institution of Islam (not answerable to Rome or Cairo or the boonies of Afghanistan for that matter)- would be anti-secular, wouldn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Daam Borhwa Resignation?
One school of thought is it is not. Essentially LK Advani has thrown the gauntlet at the RSS to get out of BJP. And BJP (or at least those having allegiance to Advani / Vajpayee) wants to chart its own path independent of RSS. The reason being, while BJP will continue to be nationalist, it wants to free itself of the rabidity of the VHP and many of the arcane ideas of the RSS. What they realized in their short time at leading the government is that for the party to move forward, it needs to liberate itself from any kind of idealogy and focus on governance and economy. But then it is a sorry state of affairs when politicians have to go all the way to Pakistan to get the fealty of Indian Muslims. Laloo with his Lahori aloo did it to great effect. Rajiv Gandhi brought Benazir to Lucknow. Worse even LKA has had to do it. The entire Indian political class has not given up the two nation theory. And then they denounce Jinnah. Incidentally, calling Jinnah was not just a Hindu sin, it seems it was a secular sin too. The Congress / Nehru Gandhi parivar came out strongly against Jinnah. God forbid, historians in India find out really how much Nehru was instrumental in partitioning India. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this another one of those 'daam borhwa' resignations ( resignation to increase stature)? Any bets :-)? BTW, what exactly did LKA say about Jinnah that sent the VHP and RSS on the warpath ? Did calling him a secular patriot amount to a Hindu sin, or was there something more to it ? cm BJP sinks deeper into crisis MOHUA CHATTERJEE TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, JUNE 09, 2005 12:56:12 AM ] Surf 'N' Earn -Sign innow NEW DELHI: The crisis in the BJP deepened on Wednesday evening with L K Advani rejecting out of hand an appeal by senior BJP leaders to reconsider his resignation as party president. He insisted that it would not be possible to do so as BJP had not moved to defend him against criticism over his remarks on Pakistan founder Mohammed Ali Jinnah. The BJP delegation which called on Advani to present him a resolution that urged him to take back his resignation found the leader in an unrelenting frame of mind. What is new in this resolution? It is very much the same as what you had to say yesterday, he is understood to have told the leaders, most of whom are seen as his proteges. Continued...Next ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Daam Borhwa Resignation?
Like I said it is one school of thought. Will the BJP stand a chance without VHP - I wouldn't be surprised if it did. IMHO, the BJP represents a lot more than trishul brandishing, valentine bashing ruffians. Extending the same logic however going to Pakistan will hardly help. secular Indians. The Congress party is NOT the sole standard bearers of India's secular polity, is it? Who is / are? __ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] GOI-ULFA Negotiations II
Santanuda, I was trying to point out that GOI has a non-trivial stake in attaining peace and stability - even if the assumption is made that it does not give a damn about the people of Assam. Looking at the situation from certain prisms, it is no longer one remote and unimportant backfill for the country. While Kashmir has only political significance, Assam has both political and economic significance. India's internal axes of importance in the future is to be found in the edges (the south and the east), not the heartland north. And perhaps that could fuel a change in the governance model. Since the stake is non-trivial, GOI will be willing to pay a price (in cash and certain kinds of kind). Perhaps a high price. And Assam needs to analyze and understand how much of cash it will be, what kinds of kind will it be ready to part with and then be prepared to extract that price. Would be interested in understanding your analysis of what imperatives GOI might have or not, with regard to attaining peace in the region. What are they prepared to give up? Rajib --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rajib: I am not sure about the broad objectives of the GOI outlined by you - but I perfectly agree with you that Neither the ULFA nor the GOI voices the aspirations of many sections of Assamese people. Which is why its voice/s and the message/s are necessary. The public does not need to twiddle their thumbs and stay behind the rest of India for the next 50 years just because the ULFA decided on a pernicious fight for 25 years. And if for that it needs to sell out ULFA or treat the GOI as a business opponent which needs the maximum extracted from, so be it. God forbid, we have a new cabinet and the change over of cornering the market for government contracts from SULFA to ULFA alone and nothing else to show for it. Santanu -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Rajib Das Sent: Sat 6/4/2005 8:38 AM To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] GOI-ULFA Negotiations II The GOI's strategy is to wait and hope that all militancy will eventually tire and get corrupted to a degree that doles and state level ministries can buy out. Then it can just do another Assam accord of 1985. Left to itself GOI would have waited out the eventual death of a militant group that finds its space continually getting limited by the day. The context for GOI, however, is very different. There is way more than a strong desire for peace in the state to the point where the GOI is hearing it loud and clear. It seeks economic growth in Assam (as it seeks in Karnataka) and waiting much longer would be very detrimental. There is a huge sensitity locally and globally against terrorism. It desires to be in the Security Council. It needs to connect to the rich nations of SE Asia to fuel the humongous economic growth it is seeking. GOI NEEDS peace in the next 2/3 years, not the next 20/30. This context has very little to do with ULFA. And the public - its context is very different from either ULFA or GOI. Neither the ULFA nor the GOI voices the aspirations of many sections of Assamese people. Which is why its voice/s and the message/s are necessary. The public does not need to twiddle their thumbs and stay behind the rest of India for the next 50 years just because the ULFA decided on a pernicious fight for 25 years. And if for that it needs to sell out ULFA or treat the GOI as a business opponent which needs the maximum extracted from, so be it. God forbid, we have a new cabinet and the change over of cornering the market for government contracts from SULFA to ULFA alone and nothing else to show for it. __ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] More on ULFA Inc.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050604/asp/frontpage/story_4825508.asp For most of the rest of India today, money flows into the country from outside and creates jobs. Here the reverse is happening - money is going out of Assam to create jobs elsewhere. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] Ulfa Hotels Incorporated
http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/jun/04ulfa.htm Another reason why the public needs its own voice. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] GOI-ULFA Negotiations II
The GOI's strategy is to wait and hope that all militancy will eventually tire and get corrupted to a degree that doles and state level ministries can buy out. Then it can just do another Assam accord of 1985. Left to itself GOI would have waited out the eventual death of a militant group that finds its space continually getting limited by the day. The context for GOI, however, is very different. There is way more than a strong desire for peace in the state to the point where the GOI is hearing it loud and clear. It seeks economic growth in Assam (as it seeks in Karnataka) and waiting much longer would be very detrimental. There is a huge sensitity locally and globally against terrorism. It desires to be in the Security Council. It needs to connect to the rich nations of SE Asia to fuel the humongous economic growth it is seeking. GOI NEEDS peace in the next 2/3 years, not the next 20/30. This context has very little to do with ULFA. And the public - its context is very different from either ULFA or GOI. Neither the ULFA nor the GOI voices the aspirations of many sections of Assamese people. Which is why its voice/s and the message/s are necessary. The public does not need to twiddle their thumbs and stay behind the rest of India for the next 50 years just because the ULFA decided on a pernicious fight for 25 years. And if for that it needs to sell out ULFA or treat the GOI as a business opponent which needs the maximum extracted from, so be it. God forbid, we have a new cabinet and the change over of cornering the market for government contracts from SULFA to ULFA alone and nothing else to show for it. __ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] Assamese Indian in Hall of Fame
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5967_1385351,001600060001.htm __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Re: Change of Indian system.
*** In this particular case you cite about DD sharing DA's displeasures over ULFA's new demands as unreasonable and my 'sensitivity' to it as you sense and equating that to this mythical or even real Bimal Das who is sensitive to mine or Kamal's pointing out the weaknesses and faults of desi-demokrasy ; you are comparing apples and oranges. Is it any different? Reading all the different posts, to me it does not look like it is. There are known problems of desi demokrasy and there are known problems of militancy and militants (and why it might not want to come to the negotiating table). The known problems, in your case, is again as much of a speculation in the sense that your feet are not on the ground. In as much as leaders of ULFA are fighting for their compatriots freedom, the bureacrats and the politicians ON THE GROUND are working the system for the betterment of Assam. In as much as your opinions of desi demokrasy are colored by your views against India and the Indian system, DD's views are colored based on the biases he supposedly carries. In that sense the DD vs. Ulfa Leaders is similar to CM vs real CM and bureacrats. In both cases, the protagonists have come far away to the luxuries of the west and of opinion giving from far afar. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] GOI-ULFA negotiations.
Kudos for the only pragmatic point of view (IMHO) on this whole debate. Also given the kind of biases each one of us carry, my orientation would mostly be focused on economics and a little bit of politics. My two bits: a. The central government bribe that should come about as a natural course of buying peace. While the central government's policies resulted in the problems that gave rise to militancy, the militants did not quite help the cause of the people by keeping them devoid of economic progress for so long for so little. This bribe should be for the people not the militants (unlike the last time around when the militants (SULFA) got the bonanza they are living up to this day). Just doing pure number crunching, this sum should be no less than 10 times the bribe given to Nagaland (Rs. 4000 crores). This amount therefore should be no less than Rs. 40,000 crores. b. Renegotiating the royalty on oil (and if possible all past oil outflow) to result in a further sizable inflow of money. I don't know the economics of this - perhaps someone can elucidate. c. The opportunity cost of militancy - for the people to make up lost time and lost opportunities with more funds to address more issues in far less time. This opportunity cost should also be sizable. d. To negotiate the SE Asia corridor initiative in a manner that as a national infrastructure build up it takes more priority over most other Indian issues for the next 5 years. To execute the SE Asia corridor in a manner that the BJP government formulated - actually, in a manner that it is beneficial optimally for the NE states. In fact to negotiatiate a NE development tax on all merchandise crossing either way into perpetuity. I am sure, in the economics of it, though I have not analyzed it so far, there is margin for both mainland India and the SE Asia nations to benefit over the status quo right now and yet this development tax can be paid. For reference, Pakistan will earn $ 800 million for the oil pipeline that will pass through it from Iran to India. And the road network for merchandise flowing through is no different. e. To use this as an opportunity to break up the politician - militant - current Marwari business nexus and bring changes in governance that will bring big business houses to invest in the state as well as enable local entrepreneurship to grow successfully. This nexus has monopolised business and entrepreneurship in the state in a manner inimical to the populace at large. And it can be broken by the government (both state and federal) carrying with them in their negotiations big business houses such as Wipro or Reliance Steel to come in, give them enough sops to make it attractive to invest in the state and throw on them enough social strictures (whom to give low end contracts etc. and whom not to). On politics, I am sure there are way more competent opinion givers. I am sure the Bangladeshi problem will be solved in a manner that does not get colored by the patronage that the current militants get or what certain political parties think are votebanks. - Original Message - From: Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:57 AM Subject: [Assam] GOI-ULFA negotiations. Suppose for a moment we set aside the question of our own views on the ULFA, its demands and the history of its movement. Assume that at some point in time the representatives of the govt of India and the ULFA actually meet across the table for negotiations - just like the Naga or Bodo insurgency leaders did. You will agree that in that event - what will be most important will be the actual nitty gritty of the negotiation itself and that there is a possibility that there will be a negotiated settlement. History teaches us that such settlements often look very different from the formal charters of the organizations. In fact, there is little doubt that the organization ULFA, its historical perspective and its full set of demands are controversial - there is no general consensus on them. In particular, a large section (without trying to quantify how large) do not actually sympathise with the ULFA or its demand for sovereignty (just as a large section actually do). However, on specific issues that the ULFA initially stood for, popular opinion is often quite close to ULFA's perspective. For example, my own observation most people actually sympathise with the fact that Assam is virtually in some sort of a colonial socio-economic relationship with mainland India - whether or not they think of it as a deliberate imposition or simply an outcome of history to which the Assamese have contributed. Similarly, most people actually believe that Assam's options of selling its natural resources to the world market at fair prices are actually cut off. That, de facto, Assam has had little access to its geographical neighbors on the east through whom it could
Re: [Assam] GOI-ULFA negotiations.
Regardless of whether one supports ULFA's positions, the fact that ULFA's emergence was the single most important force that got the Center's attention to Assam's sense of alienation is forgotten by these people going about sporting intellectual blinders. Perhaps, also, these people examine the problem for what it is TODAY. ULFA's continued existence, in the shape and manner it has, is the single most reason Assam continues to remain in a morass - economic or otherwise. It is a problem that continues to exert every ounce of attention and energy from a whole lot of people who could in the interim have done better things - even with the system they have. And continues to keep at arms length all these other people that we need. Perhaps the biggest single constituency available in Assam is PEACE. Not the love of ULFA or the Center and their respective agendas. Somehow people seem to be furthering their agendas. Too bad it is perceived as for the center. Somewhat like Bush - you are either with us or against us. The truth for the most part is neither. And that is not intellectual blinderism at work. Perhaps Collective Opportunism. But that is good business sense. __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] List of Assamese in some inflential posts in GOI
Another way of looking at things - and I see already that the CMDship of oil companies already has / had a few people from Assam - is to figure out how to create the infrastructure to monopolize oil jobs across the country. I remember GAIL (Gas Authority of India) where I worked for a year had pubjabis at the top followed by hordes of Bengalis in the middle cadre. But if specialized education enables wholesale awarding of jobs from top to bottom (and wherever they might be) to people from Assam it would be great. That would make business sense for the companies. It would be a competitive edge that should be relatively easier to obtain given local industry presence. Besides oil and oil companies are not going away any time soon. I hear even the drilling laborers in Saudi Arabia and other places come from Texas. --- mridul bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Dear fellow netters, With apologies to the persons, whose name I have mentioned, here is a list of our fellow assamese in some of the top rung posts in GOI, of which the fellow netters might not be aware. 1. Kumar Sanjay Krishna - Director in PMO (Prime Minister's Office) 2. Mr.Mushary (the first name I forgot) - Director, BSF 3. Mr.Ranjit Kumar Dutta - CMD (Chairman-cum-Managing director), Oil India Ltd. 4. Mr. Bikash C. Borah - Ex-CMD ONGC. 5. Mr.Jyotirmoy Chakrabartee - DIG, SPG (Special Protection Group) 6. Director General of Police Communication (Forgot his name) There will be many more, not to mention the name of famous writers, who has been recognised in the national level and few famous journalist/newreaders with popular news channel NDTV and renowned Newspapers. I am hopeful that with so many people in the top ehleons of GOI, Assam's problems shall be highlighted in the proper forums in the near future. Others may add further to this list. Mridul Bhuyan - Job hunting? Get the right one! Log on to www.timesjobs.com TODAY ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Assam's economy
We have heard a lot of things about these issues from a lot of people. One aspect that has remained un-deliberated on is WHY Assam should not be fully autonomous or independent. Perhaps those of you who either are partisan to or lean towards this point of view could lay the reasons down, as best as you see them. It would be educational for everyone. Maybe some of us here who don't subscribe to that point of view will learn something from it. Actually the real question is why Assam should be independent, for which groups of people of Assam, what it means for them, how it will be achieved and why it makes more sense. I don't believe there is enough of clarity on these matters for many people, including myself. In any case, here are reasons why Assam should not become independent (let's leave aside the autonomy part for a bit). Apologies for a long and meandering answer. It is a lazy afternoon and there is no enthusiasm in editing what I have written. 1. Who is this independence for? In other words, who is an Assamese and who is not? Someone on this board mentioned those who speak Assamese (and the rest will be forced to speak Assamese if they are to live in Assam). Clearly those who are unwilling to change their mother tongue one fine day do not want Assam to be independent. And very clearly, there are enough number of people of that category. I read somewhere the pre-independence census of 1930s or 40s had more people not speaking Assamese versus those that spoke. The situation has't changed much for the better. And then ,today, there are a 1000 mutinies OTHER than the independent Assam one. Which essentially means there are enough people not wanting Assam Independence that means something negative for them. And if there is indeed the concept of an integrated Assam - an aggregation of multiple identities, it is as artifial a construct (or not) as India. Unless it has congealed itself into a whole that absorbs everything else. In my opinion, it has not. So, why not have an independent Bodoland, independent Kachariland, independent Tiwaland, independent Ganeshguri or my independent corner of Ganeshguri - a lone house, fluttering a lone flag. 2. What does this independence mean? If Question 1 is answered, those for whom independence should mean something will be prone to asking Question 2. What kind of a government will be there? WHat will be my share of power? How will my opportunities be better? Taking cues from what is happening around, people will try to figure out who will be the likely leaders, what is their vision of independence, what is their roadmap for granting people their opportunities. At this point and time, the answers to all these questions will be very dire. Some want dictatorship in Assam. And many people will wonder, how those that will gain dictatorship (or power thru some other means) will behave when their behavior even before they gained absolute power is next to apalling. They wonder how much tax they will pay (given than they pay their taxes and then give in to the demands of the extortionists now), they worry about what economic opportunities they will have (given that these guys have no economic blueprint for the Assamese nation) and finally they wonder what the pre-occupation of the leaders be - their own aggrandisement or the betterment of the people. Those that wonder thus will give a resounding no to independence. And there are many that wonder thus. 3. How will it be achieved? 25 years and nothing much to show for an independence movement. 25 years back the enemy (the Indian nation) was weak and on the verge of defeat and breakup. Now it is resurgent - internally and externally for the most part. Militarily and politically, the answer to who - the independists or the unionists - will hold off longer is no longer in doubt. 25 years back, many of the generation asked why should we be a part of the mess called India. They had their time in the sun to force India to a defeat or a draw. The opportunity cost was low. Now the opportunity cost is so high that the only idea that draws ALL sections of the people of Assam together is PEACE. So they can move forward to find PROSPERITY that is still eluding them while it is within reach of others in India. No wonder why some of the older generations (who have not experienced the changes in the country) continue to hang to their shibboleths. And many in the younger generations sense opportunity - being denied primarily because there is so much violence in the region - and want their chance at addressing it. 4. How will it sustain independence? Militarily, economically and culturally there will be a tremendous amount of power and energy required to sustain independence. The independent nation of Assam will have an antagonistic India (because independence was wrested from it), an antagonistic Bangladesh (because they consider Assam their backyard where their teeming millions NEED to go), an antagonistic
Re: [Assam] Status of ONGC
All the same, they are government entities in the sense that the oil market in India is not necessarily driven by market forces. Their humongous profits are driven by monopolies. So if they are not handing over enough royalties for local consumption, they need to pay their dues in other ways. Like setting up schools and hospitals, giving jobs to people of Assam etc. As Shantikamda rightly pointed out, it is not the most efficient model. But neither is the market efficient. The ideal situation would have been that they focus on exploring, drilling and distributing oil. And handing over money to the government of Assam. But then who would utilize the money better - ONGC or the government of Assam? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] One about the Singapore dictatorship
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[Assam] Sentinel Article: Guess who is on whose side: Ref the boycott of Bangladeshis
Wasn't there somebody here who mentioned the central plan of supporting Bangladeshis? What do folks think of this? ULFA: Stop harassing Assamese Muslims By a Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, May 22: The proscribed ULFA today joined the save Muslims bandwagon by issuing a warning to those harassing innocent people. It termed the move as a pre-election exercise of people with vested interests. Chairman Arabinda Rajkhowa in a statement said that the outfit will not tolerate atrocities on indigenous Assamese Muslims in the name of illegal immigrants. Rajkhowa also refuted allegations that the outfit had appealed to the US administration to strike off its name from the countrys list of terrorist organizations. He said that recent reports in this regard are an attempt to discourage the struggle of the outfit. On the other hand, four persons were arrested last night for their alleged nexus with the ULFA. Panbazar Police apprehended two persons Kuntal Sarma, a correspondent of a vernacular daily and Chinmoy Kanti Sarkar from Bilasipara on charges of their involvement in unlawful activities under ULFA. Chandmari Police also arrested Fainur Ali and Tafiruddin Ahmed from Maroi in Sipajhar for their links with the ULFA. A large number of arms, ammunition and documents were recovered from their possession. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] It takes a village
I assumed the discussion was about Singapore model in its entirety - not just Singapore's record of cleanliness. Am I wrong there? If I am, why not just impose presidential rule for 5 years (the governors of Assam have been very proactive in recent years), throw all politicians out of the state, bring in the army - yes even to do policing duties, allow them unfettered access to the boys, hunt them down and kill them without asking questions, kill those who support them, sack corrupt or even non-performing bureacrats without due recourse to law to defend themselves and yes throw all Marwari businessmen out. Let's see: take the guns away from SULFA and get the AASU to stop doing anything other than studies. Yes.. beat people up for peeing on the roadside, raze slums to the ground, lathicharge folks when the protest about bad roads, break all the extensions people have done with encroachments on the road, close the roadside vendor shops that don't have permits, don't allow village patients to come to town hospitals and park by the road. Jail kids who bunk classes to watch a movie. Cane them publicly when they get into a fight. Finally, the public, bureacrats, police, the judiciary cannot complain if and when the governor decides to go transfer all of Fancy Bazar real estate to his name. Which to do and which not? --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: KJD, Bhale ne? By all appearances and measures, it has been working astoundingly well.If anti-social behavior( corruption,littering,jaywalking,spitting) is allowed to continue in the name of democracy, then that class of democracy should be thrown out of window--as simple as that That is a mouthful. Why do think, some netters (I am one) do not think Singapore is a model for India or even Assam to emulate? Let me try and explain, if you will. Singapore is considered the cleanest in the world. And how did it accomplish this feat (that even a rich and advanced country like the US hasn't)? Simple, by instituting draconian laws and punishments on people who misbehave, are corrupt, litter etc, etc. And sure enough, people fall in line and do whatever the great leader stipulates (since 1959, if I may add). People will have to choose. Will it be law order, or law order with a dash of 'due process' for people who break civic laws. There is NO due process in Singapore. Would you want that in Assam/India? Inspite of what C'da thinks, India does have more 'due process' than Singapore. I agree that anti-social behavior should not be confused with freedom. The problem, I see is in the applicability of such standards in say for example Guwahati. You ban jaywalking. Millions walk everyday. There are no crosswalks or even cops to regulate pedestrians. How would you apply this law? I can go, but you catch my drift. First the Guwahati authorities must have a system in place, and then you can order people to follow the rules. But you can't impose rules and regulations (and punishments) and expect people to follow them when they just cannot. If you ban littering. The last time I checked, Guwahati had little or no trash pickups or dumpsters. The GMC just doesn't function well, There are no thrash dumps that all the city garbage can be picked up and processed. Then to top it all, after the rains every year, we suddenly come to realize, that Guwahati actually doesn't have a drainage system that works. Where will all that filth muck go? The other point is educating people. The rickshaw puller or the dhobi has never been 'educated' in civic duties. How do you plan to get a model civic society? And what about those middle class people in nice homes. They manage to keep their homes clean, and throw the trash out on the streets. I am not sure they need to be educated on civic duties, but they too may not have any other options than to throw stuff on the streets. I don't know the answers. But the price in the Singapore model is just too darn expensive. The price of having vastly curtailed other freedoms because I want my city to look clean. Its easier said - about this emulation business. --Ram On 5/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cd, Mridul Bhuyan has said it all.You see,Singapore just does not fit some of our fellow netter's categories.By all appearances and measures, it has been working astoundingly well.If anti-social behavior( corruption,littering,jaywalking,spitting) is allowed to continue in the name of democracy, then that class of democracy should be thrown out of window--as simple as that.But then,folks of this forum seem to have mastered the craft of devising means by creating new alibi or pretext or rationalization ( Whatever one calls it) in order to buttress their arguement.Fling in few catch-phrases like democracy/political rights and the job is done.Can anyone deny that
Re: [Assam] Re: Assam Digest, Vol 20, Issue 223
Amazing how the habit of laying everything at Delhi's doorsteps never goes away!! Right now this full support thing is coming from elsewhere - and we all know where it is. Lay it out for what it is. Break old habits. Hopefully the 1.6 million jobless of Assam will step in to take on the jobs at the brickkilns and the empty rickshaws. The jobs aren't going away and so long as the jobs are there and not enough people to man those jobs, others will come. --- Anupam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Namashkar, we should support the movement going in Assam otherwise those bangladeshis will rule us one day with full suport from Delhi. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 05/20/05 20:35:01 To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Assam Digest, Vol 20, Issue 223 Send Assam mailing list submissions to assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Assam digest... Today's Topics: 1. Do women write better e-mails? (mridul bhuyan) 2. Rickshaw pullers, labourers go missing - IANS (Ram Sarangapani) 3. Re: It takes a village (Rajen Barua) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 19:13:37 +0530 From: mridul bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Assam] Do women write better e-mails? To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7373 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pikespeak.uccs edu/pipermail/assam/attachments/20050520/633bb7e2/attachment.txt -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:27:30 -0500 From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Assam] Rickshaw pullers, labourers go missing - IANS To: Assam assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rickshaw pullers, labourers go missing in Assam:- Guwahati | May 20, 2005 2:43:42 PM IST Guwahati, May 20 : Until just the other day, streets across Assam were crowded with cycle rickshaws and there was no dearth of workers for construction companies and road contractors. But today commuters in many Assamese cities and towns are stranded with rickshaw pullers doing the vanishing trick, while contractors find their regular workforce virtually missing from their sites. The sudden disappearance of rickshaw pullers and other workers is a direct fallout of the recent controversy in Assam over hounding of illegal Bangladeshi migrants from the state. Until Wednesday we had up to a hundred workers, but all of sudden we find that the entire workforce has simply vanished. We do not know where they disappeared, said Mukul Das, a road contractor. Thousands of Bengali speaking workers were engaged by local contractors in brick kilns, road and building construction works. A large number also pulled rickshaws. While some say these workers are illegal Bangladeshi migrants, others dismiss such charges. Just because they speak the Bengali language, practice a particular religious faith, and resemble Bangladeshis, you cannot === message truncated === Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Aryans for a Nazi solution/Sankaracharya's Buddhist massacre in ancient Kamrup?
Now this is interesting, coming from BB! Would be very interested in knowing more about the massacre of Buddhists in ancient times. Is that how Hinduism came back into the Brahmaputra valley? Bengal had the Palas and Senas to bring back Hinduism. Now for the BB comment - Aryans for a Nazi... - now is that what you term the current vigilantism as? A Nazi solution? Is that because it is Bangladeshis being hounded out? As opposed to Biharis? And given BB's inclinations, am I surprised?? Weren't Bihari laborers also lynched in Dibrugarh sometime back? There is a movie called A day without a Mexican available in Blockbuster. A satire about how society will come to a halt in California if the Mexicans vanish. I guess we will find that happening in Assam. --- Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Thousands of Bangladeshis flee Assam http://www.navhindtimes.com/stories.php?part=newsStory_ID=05206 Reuters Guwahati May 19: Thousands of Bangladeshis have fled Assam following threats by anonymous groups against migrants and a campaign asking locals not to employ foreigners, officials and residents said. The unidentified groups in Dibrugarh district have circulated leaflets and sent text messages on mobile phones in the past week, warning Bangladeshi nationals to leave immediately or face unspecified action. Mobile phones in Assam are being flooded with text messages saying, Save the nation, save identity. Lets take an oath ... no food, no job, no shelter to Bangladeshis while leaflets seeking an economic blockade of the migrants are also being distributed. Many labourers working in brick kilns, rickshaws pullers and construction workers have fled in the past one week due to the threat, said Mr P C Saloi, superintendent of police in Dibrugarh. Over the years, hundreds of thousands of illegal Bangladeshi migrants have swamped the tea-growing and oil-rich state in search for work and food. Over two years ago, the government estimated there could be up to 20 million illegal Bangladeshi immigrants in India, and labeled some of them a security risk. In the early 1980s, the powerful All-Assam Students Union launched a bloody campaign to push Bangladeshis back to their homeland. Thousands of Bangladeshis, including women and children, were massacred across the state by indigenous people who feared they would be reduced to a minority in their own land. The government and the students union signed a pact in 1985, but clauses on the deportation of foreigners have still not been implemented. The campaign against the Bangladeshis has mushroomed into a full-fledged uprising against New Delhis rule and many rebel groups are still battling for independence. India has fenced parts of the 4,000-km border with Bangladesh, but officials say this has done little to deter migrants bent on leaving one of the worlds poorest countries. Assam shares a 272 km porous border with Bangladesh, a vast stretch of which is unfenced. Fencing along the border with Bangladesh in this sector has started to prevent illegal infiltration, said the Union Home Secretary, Mr V K Duggal. Legal and judicial measures have also been adopted to deport illegal Bangladeshi settlers from the country. The lush paddy fields and the sandy, shifting plains of the mighty Brahmaputra river that divides the countries are natural transit routes. Hundreds take rickety boats across the river, which at some places is 15 km wide, into India. The migrants become farmhands or river fishermen in villages. In towns they are often construction workers or rickshaw pullers, and the women work as maids. Since the latest campaign against Bangladeshis began, rickshaw pullers in Assam have gone off the road, maids have stopped coming to work and there is a shortage of eggs and chickens as most vendors were Bangladeshi. Brick kilns have been closed due to shortage of labor. Though there are no officials figures of actual numbers of Bangladeshis in Assam, locals say their population could be six million of the states 26 million people. Every day around 6,000 illegal infiltrators cross the border and enter the state, said an intelligence official in Guwahati. The police said most of the fleeing Bangladeshi have now moved to districts close to the border with Bangladesh. The police have been put on maximum alert and instructions have been given that no genuine citizens are harassed and no communal clashes take place in disturbed areas, said the state Home Minister, Mr Rockybul Hussain. - Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Another One from Tehelka
The article misses out one element in the nexus - the militants (the ex-militants too). Under the 60:40 rule, one needs to add that component and voila - all local power holders are happy. Nothing unusual - the bogey of central blame has been used (very successfully, I must say) time and again for too long. More than a systemic failure, it is a failure of leadership (perhaps across generations). And given that all share in the loot, whether power changes from a central to federal to autonomous to independent - all that is going to happen is that a few dollars will be moved around these 4 entities. --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, I am appalled on two counts. One of course, by the enormity and the sheer ease by these scams have been perpetrated on the NE people. I truly sympathize with the real victims - the people. The second, is how the article shifts the blame on Delhi because it did not pay attention to the scams. Shouldn't one be outraged by the ministers an businesses who scammed the people first? The different State Govts (the primary watchdogs) of the respective NE can then be asked why they have been napping. When we get enough answers, we can then ask the Center, why they have been neglecting the scams in the NE. This is atrocious, if someone's home were to be robbed, the first anger should be against the thieves, then the local cops, and finally the Justice Dept. Something like the lottery scams are controlled by the State Govt. There are procedures. My guess would be that until unless the State Govt. asks the Center's help, the Center can't do much. Now, it would be understandable, if it were a income tax evasion scam. In that event, the IT department the Center would be responsible. BTW: I did not see anywhere in the article, that Central Govt. officials or Ministers were involved (atleast those from outside the states). What does that tell us? More than likely, the scams, the artists, the players, and the victims were all of the local variety. Its time to get the house in order, IMHO. --Ram On 5/20/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This story, as incomplete a picture as it is, does point to certain issues that are often overlooked by some of our friends here in Assam Net for example, and by most Indians. To get a better understanding of how and why exactly these can take place and with such impunity one needs to read Sanjib Baruah's book DURABLE DISORDER, Understanding the Politics of Northeast India, which I have started reading, finally. cm Scam as scam can Corruption prospers in the Northeast because it bothers so few By Nitin A. Gokhale The eight states of the Northeast may be unique in most respects but when it comes to big-time financial scams, the region is no different than the rest of India: Politicians, bureaucrats and businessmen gang up to rob the exchequer of big amounts in the Northeast as they do across the country. For scamsters in the region the colour of money is same as in any part of India. There is, however, one unique thing about scams in the Northeast - no one is unduly perturbed, no one gets punished and all is forgotten with time. Being outside the radar screens of New Delhi, most corrupt practices and big-time scams in the Northeast go unnoticed and unreported Financial irregularities, running into hundreds of crores of rupees, have been uncovered in the region more frequently than anywhere else. The Rs 300-crore lottery scandal in Nagaland; the Rs 250-crore import of palmoline oil scandal; the Rs 197-crore power department scam or the latest Rs 100-crore fci supply scam, the list is endless. Those in the know have even coined a term for these scandals. They are called the 60:40 scandals. This is how they work. The well-informed bureaucrat proposes a scheme, the politician endorses it and the ubiquitous businessman implements it - all on paper! Then the spoils are shared 60:40 - 30 percent each goes to the politician and the bureaucrat and the rest is pocketed by the trader. All these swindles have been well documented and written about but none of the culprits has been taken to task. Many of them continue to be active and flourishing politicians or bureaucrats. Businessmen, under the patronage of the politician-bureaucrat nexus, carry on defrauding governments in the Northeast with impunity. If any of these scandals had taken place in the so-called mainland India, someone would have made a song and dance - the opposition, the media, civil society groups. But India's Northeast appears immune to any of these reactions to big-time scams. Mainly because, like with most other aspects of governance, the region suffers from the 'out-of-sight-out-of-mind' syndrome. Being outside the radar
Re: Re: [Assam] It takes a village
I wonder why some folks think curtailing of rights is ok with India (or Assam) and not ok when GW Bush goes around brandishing the Patriots Act in the country they live in! If we are to going by Singapore's model, if they can whip a boy for spray painting, I wonder what they would do to boys that brandish guns and kill others. Incidentally also I hear (in whispers in Singapore), the original dictator of Singapore Lee Kwan Yew controls more than 50% of available real estate in Singapore. Further, since we are talking Singapore, it is a tiny little country in peril. The biggest problem they face is they don't know how to remain relevant in an age where giants in its neighbourhood have woken up - even Malaysia gives them the shivers when right across the sea Malaysia offers port facilities at one third the price. Their solution to the problem is the leader of the country going on TV to dictate to the citizens to think laterally. New business ideas, technologies or even great artists are not exactly born in Singapore. Giving the example of Singapore in these times is somewhat of a joke. In 50 years time it will go back to being the dirty port it was unless someone discovers a way to make itself relevant again. I am also assuming that those who consider Singapore a role model are emphasising economic improvement not political freedom, aren't we? So is that what is the core of the problem in Assam or are we changing tune again? Also there is Lee Kwan Yew's Singapore. And then there is Idi Amin's Uganda and Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe. It becomes a credible point for discussion if we are somehow to determine who exactly is going to be Assam's Lee Kwan Yew. At this point the potential candidates are limited and to an extent we understand their capabilities. Since this person would not exactly be chosen by the complete, unfettered free will of the people of Assam, what are the chances we would land up with an Idi Amin instead of a Lee Kwan Yew? My bet is with the former. --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da Are you getting into the Texas shhotiong from the hip mode too? Yup! we Texans shoot first, ask questions later :-) You are right, must have confused Singapore to some other country. Asides that, though the facts still remain., ie solutions that work in Singapore may not work for country like India, specially the curtailing of 'rights' part. The closest we came to something like that was during Indira's emergency. Few liked it, and during those 2 years, India actually lost productivity (I read this some years ago, could be wrong) That is why those who want to govern themselves better ought to be able to do so, as either smaller independent units or truly autonomous smaller entities-- like Assam. I agree with you on the autonomous part. Though, I am not sure if the 'govern' part will work well for some states (like Bihar). Maybe, autonomy should be given in small portions, and see how it works. You know, 'give a man enough rope, and he will hang himself' shouldn't be the motto. Autonomy for the sake of better goveranace, I agree, but NOT autonomy for autonomy's sake. --Ram On 5/19/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: Are you getting into the Texas shhotiong from the hip mode too? -- its a country by itself and is ruled basically by a dictator. Look up: http://www.travelblog.org/World/sn-gov.html Singapore is a Pariliamentary Republic, with the President, the CEO, elected democratically. The Parliament is too. You also complained that Singapore is very small--thus not fair to compare it with India. Well, duh! Why do you think some of us have been attempting to explain, to no avail, that India's size and diversity is an impediment to its governance and its progress. That is why those who want to govern themselves better ought to be able to do so, as either smaller independent units or truly autonomous smaller entities-- like Assam. And in areas where size is an advantage, they can have treaties, such as for trade, or defense, as a federation. From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/05/19 Thu AM 01:42:00 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] It takes a village KJD, In the case of Singapore, its a country by itself and is ruled basically by a dictator. Thus the government is answerable to itself, and people have no rights, and bureaucracy is cut-short. As for Guwahati, the size may be small compared to a Singapore, but the City is answerable in some capacity to the the DC, the GOA, which in turn to the GOI. Its not as if the mayor of Guwahati can rule with an iron fist to enforce cleaniness. In Singapore even chewing gum is banned (so I have heard). Do you think its possible for the mayor, the CM,
RE: Re: [Assam] It takes a village
My understanding is this is neighbourhood based in Guwahati - mostly local citizen initiatives. It happens in Rehabari (more settled, a bit more money) where the neighbourhood folks agreed to part with Rs. 50. It does not happen in my mother's neighbourhood in Lal Ganesh (less money, newer houses) where the neighbours feel wasting Rs. 50 on throwing garbage is a waste of money. So far. The vote count seem to be changing over time. --- Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, it is not in Delhi. Some concerned and enlightened citizens in Guwahati have organized similar garbage pick up and Mridul Bhuyan is right with his complaint. I know of one organization that has been formed by Mrs. Kamal Kumari Baruah ( mother of Geeta Deka who passed away) and my aunt Dr. Trishna Mahanta. The organization uses contractor/s to provide the service. These two people live at two ends of the city. So I assume it is a citywide organization. But the complaint is the same. The organization charges Rs. 50 per month per household for this garbage pick up. Most pay to keep their neighborhoods clean but there are some who have defaulted and some complain that Rs. 50 is too much. Dilip Alpana B. Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here, even people prefer to throw their garbage to roads instead of paying Rs.30/-pm to the garbage pickers. This is in Delhi, I assume. At least the garbage pickers are available there. In Guwahati, 'poisa dileu paaboloi naai'. And where would they even dump it? The principle prevailing here is 'keep your home clean, throw the garbage outside' :-) I agree, that is the common attitude there - all over India. From: mridul bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] It takes a village Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 15:40:22 +0530 ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed Here, even people prefer to throw their garbage to roads instead of paying Rs.30/-pm to the garbage pickers. The principle prevailing here is 'keep your home clean, throw the garbage outside' :-) Mridul Bhuyan From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] It takes a village Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 23:24:04 -0500 KJD IMHO, Singapore is a very tiny country, and that by itself can be a big advantage when talking about law and order, or even keeping it clean. The question is whether such a system, with all the trappings of draconian laws work in India? Why even the slightest move in that direction will cause an uproar in India, specially by those who are advocating it right now. They will be the first to yell about fundamental rights being curtailed etc etc. Will Indians be willing to pay that price that Singaporeans or S. Koreans have paid? --Ram On 5/18/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cd, That's why I wrote This is not to say that such actions can be yoked to religion itself. You are right.Just forty years ago, Singapore was a war-battered British port,which had rapidly growing,poor,uneducated population living in slums and households.Singapore struggled along until 1965,when it became an independent nation with prime minister Yew in firm control.Forty years later,75% of families,the previous slum-dwellers own their homes.Despite a few harsh measures ( eg,forced savings),Singaporeans are happy with their paternalistic government. KJD ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam - Claim your space online! Share your world for free! Have a blast with MSN Spaces! ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options:
Re: Re: [Assam] It takes a village?
by one group. It looks like use or non-use of violence is determined more by culture than by any religious belief or teaching. I don't think Koran says that by committing suicide one can go to heaven (what is that?). What the Jihadis do is not interpreted as suicide - it is interpreted as martyrdom in the name of Islam. Koran does say that when you achieve martyrdom (and many in the Muslim world say it is martyrdom when you bomb yourself out in the middle of children), you DO go to heaven. Not only that, you get the services of 40 (I think) beautiful virgins when you go to heaven. The only thing interpretable is how you define martyrdom. Almost all through its history, one area martyrdom has been clearly defined is when fighting against unbelievers. Suicide bombings against Americans, Jews, Hindus, other pagans etc. would fall into that category. In fact the use of excessive violence through most of history was inspired by religious belief or teaching. The Arabs were harmless desert dwelling folks till the urge to spread Islam made them spread far and wide and bring unspeakable terror to many regions of the world including the killing of 50,000 people in the doors of Sind. The creation of the new world (and significant damage to the local heathen population) was done on the basis of Christianity. And much earlier in history even the spread of Persian empire started when Zarathustra (Zoraster) energised Persian religion and enthused great Persian kings to take the fight between good and evil to all corners of the world. Culture and religion are not compartmentalized entities - they share space and shape each other on a continual basis. Religion shapes, and is shaped by, events happening around. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] It takes a village?
When Indians and Pakistanis go to war, for Indians its not 'Kaali mai ki jai', its about Kashmir, about politics etc. But for Pakistanis, its Allah ho Akbar', Jihad, and then about Kashmir, territory. Don't our soldiers also cry Har Har Mahadev, Jo Bole So Nihal and other such exhortations depending on what regiment you belong to? We don't do Allah Ho Akbar because there is no Muslim Regiment - though I have heard in the Kargil war, the JK Light Infantry (or some other group) did compete with the Pakistanis in that particular war cry leaving the Pakistanis confused and quite a few of them dead. __ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Solve the following
The rest of the answers: How many times can you substract the number 5 from 25? Once? What can you catch but not throw? A cold Some months have 30 days,some months have 31 days,how many have 28? One? What do the numbers 11,69,88--all have in common? They are the same upside down! __ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] NGOs
And setting up an NGO is the hottest thing going for young folks all over Assam - even those without any socio-economic agenda. It seems NGOs get funds and those funds can be pocketed easily. Seems easier than working (or for that matter finding work). Why do I think is it hot for this category of people? Because, a cousin of mine, a low level political type in the hinterland whose party is currently in power talks about doing it. What it means is that it is a better option to get money than government contracts. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Sarangapani, All NGOs are not created equal;separate the wheat from the chaff,ignore propoganda and look at their track records,especially financial statements.Despite their saintly image in the media,some misuse their funds.Motivations of political,religious,or ideological activism make not an NGO.Delhi-based NGOs will not succeed in getting the people of NE to participate in determining their develomental needs,since they donot work with native ways of knowing things. KJD ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Help! We are from the N.E. - Telegraph
The report does not mention the delhi based NGO. Wouldn't be surprised if those running the show would be from the NE as well. --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Incidents like these give NGOs a bad name. Moreover, there seems to some patronizing attitude toward the NE by Delhites. This is just shameful! If they were organizing events of this nature, they ought to do their homework. --Ram __ Issue Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 Help! We are from the N-E SHILLONG NOTES / PATRICIA MUKHIM It has become fashionable for sundry organisations based in New Delhi to do something for the people of the Northeast. It almost seems as if the natives are such a helpless lot that they are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Recently, a New Delhi-based non-governmental organisation (NGO), claiming to be a publishing house and a non-profit organisation, invited creative writers from the region for a three-day meeting. Two prestigious schools, the Assam Valley School and Maria's Public Schools, were also included among the invitees. The schools responded in the hope that they would have a wonderful opportunity to interface with other students from equally prestigious schools in Delhi. They were deeply disappointed as the school that participated was not what they expected it would be and they learnt nothing from the interface. Assam and Manipur had a big contingent of creative writers, artists, filmmakers, theatre personalities and journalists attending the function. Meghalaya, Arunachal Pradesh and Nagaland had one representative each. Prior to the event, the organisation had hyped things up so much that several sponsors and donors agreed to pool funds towards the projected expenditure for the three-day event. Sponsors included DoNER, ONGC, the Union culture ministry and the North Eastern Council (NEC). So keen were the organisers to make the event a high-profile one that they also invited two mediapersons, one each from Meghalaya and Manipur. Those who responded to the call did so with the expectation that the event would bring them face to face with policy planners and other reputed writers of the capital. Nothing of the sort happened. Except for a few members belonging to the organisation and New Delhi-based students from the Northeast, there was hardly anyone from Delhi. So, in retrospect, this was another of those vain attempts to ostensibly flag critical issues of the region to a Delhi audience, except that it turned out that almost all of the speakers in the panel and also in the audience were people from the Northeast. Yet again, people from the region are talking to themselves, about themselves and for themselves. It just did not make any sense at all. We could have had a similar gathering at any of the capital cities of the region at very little cost. And we would not have required a New Delhi-based organisation to do the planning for us. We could have done that ourselves. For an event of that stature, one would have expected the metro media to be attending in full strength. But that, too, was missing. The event received little or no coverage at all. On the whole, the episode was a big letdown. Things turned out to be even more nightmarish when the organisation refused outright to refund the airfares of participants they had specifically invited to be on different panels. In fact, the entire event was so badly organised that people had to be suddenly pulled out from among the audience to become panellists for sessions they were ill-prepared for. P.A. Sangma was asked to come for a session that was to start at 10 am. He arrived on the dot and sat through the session that he was a panellist of, giving an incisive over-view of the Centre's perception of the Northeast, which was well taken by the audience. After the two-hour session, Sangma took leave because he had a Parliament session to attend. Without taking cognisance of the MP's hectic schedule and his more important duty of sitting in Parliament, the organisers suddenly announced that Sangma would also chair an afternoon session where school students would engage in a mock parliament. Sangma was taken aback! He was not told of this arrangement, he said. And he could not justifiably remain absent from Parliament for the whole day. This blatant disrespect for protocol and the propensity to take for granted anyone who is from the Northeast was amply demonstrated by the organisers, showing yet again what scant respect the mainstream really has even for political stalwarts from the Northeast. Another session, which was supposed to be attended by about 40 people from different universities of Delhi, also had a lukewarm response. There were precisely eight people from Jawaharlal Nehru University and Delhi University who attended. The rest were all northeasterners. Those who came
Re: [Assam] From the ToI/Biggest Threat to Indian security
And if it is not ULFA, who are left to run autonomy or freedom? And if it is ULFA... well! --- Santanoo Medhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Please do not entrust ULFA or their sympethisers with the responsibility of running the Autonomy opr freedom. - Original Message - From: J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] From the ToI/Biggest Threat to Indian security As far as Assam goes, give complete autonomy or freedom! Jugal C'da, But seriously though, does it not sound like a familiar story? India is a huge country with a grand mix of languages, cultures, etc. One would expect that certain sections of the population will not be happy with the setup - like the Naxals. The Naxals, like other goups are common hoodlums who are taking advantages of weaknesses in the system. The y have no uplifting political ideology that people should look up to. Their basic MO is to operate in the rural areas of states like the AP and Karnataka, and mislead the poor into taking up arms, killing and blowing up installations. The fact that there are groups like Naxals or Ulfa, does not in anyway dilute the Desi demokrasy. What it does say is that there are unscruplous groups and individuals that will always try and take advantage of system weaknesses. Instead of working together to strengthen the country (where they see ills), and make those better, they have done just the opposite by causing mayhem, and promising the moon to people who poor and destitute. Faulting desi demokrasy because (a) the growth of Naxals if spreading or (b) not being able to curp this growth is a streatch. Demokrasy is what people make of it. The system exists (and has for 50 odd years), with all its ups downs. Its one thing to take up issues that one thinks as 'undemocratic' and fight for those within the generally accepted ways, by educating the powers that be, by demonstrations, law suits or what have you.But its totally different to kill, maim, plunder, just because one thinks they have a better 'demokrasy' up their sleeve. So, lets hear it from you. What do you suggest? If you were (for the moment) the PM of India, how would you go about solving the Naxal or ULFA problem. With all the resources and problems that India has, how would you (if you could) make India a better (or ideal) demokrasy? Lets hear some solutions, C'da. --Ram On 5/10/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: Now, now C'da, you wouldn't be gloating, would you? :-) :-) At least I would not be taunting anyone :-). But seriously though, does it not sound like a familiar story? And the same old excuses of the apologists of desi demokrasy? c-da At 8:12 AM -0500 5/10/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Looks like, all of a sudden, out of the blue, something else has appeared, to destroy India. Who would have known? Now, now C'da, you wouldn't be gloating, would you? :-) :-) On 5/10/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like, all of a sudden, out of the blue, something else has appeared, to destroy India. Who would have known? The concluding paragraph below: If indeed the government plays the waiting game in the hope that democracy will ultimately triumph, the cost that India pays will be very high. It is uncanny how these things repeat themselves. Sounds very much like the internal medicine practisioner's approach to that obstructive coronary disease-- wait and see :-). Naxalites: biggest threat to Indian security JOSY JOSEPH INDIATIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, MAY 10, 2005 01:33:55 PM ] Sign into earnIndiatimes points A nightmare is beginning to unfold in the heart of India: latest intelligence reports say that armed Naxalites have a presence in 170 districts in 15 states of India as of now, and spreading wide and far. Just months back, the Naxals were present only in 156 districts in 13 states. Not just numbers, what adds to the administration's worry is that they are armed with sophisticated weapons. From the peasant uprising in Naxalbari village in Darjeeling district of West Bengal in May 1967, the movement is today a complex web that covers some 15 states of India, and with active links to the Maoists of Nepal. When the group started under the leadership of people like Kanu Sanyal and Charu Majumdar in West Bengal it was still part of Communist Part of India (Marxist), but split away, took to underground and stayed there to build a powerful network spanning hundreds of villages. In 1969 they
RE: [Assam] Lethal dose of mannerism
As well as the time, when I was on Tinsukia Mail on the way to high school when it stopped for about 4/5 hours in the middle of summer between stations near Delhi. And the villagers took turns providing drinking water to the whole train. --- mridul bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - There are some good experiences too : About 4-5 yrs. back, my wife had to undergo an abortion. After the abortion, during her next m/c, I was out in office with a very hectic schedule. My wife at home suddenly started bleeding very profusely. She could not contact me in the office, however, managed to call the neighbourhood punjabi lady. After continuous bleeding, she fainted. The lady all alone in the house managed to bring my wife to a nereby hospital in a unconscious state and persuaded the doctor to go for an emergency operation, which saved the life of my wife. We will never forget that incident atleast in our lifetime. Mridul Bhuyan From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: RE: [Assam] Lethal dose of mannerism Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:57:20 -0500 You are so right Santanu. Another anecdote: We, the dept. of Architecture from IIT KGP, were on an India wide excursion. On our way to Bhakra Dam from Delhi by bus, two of our girl classmates, needed to go bathroom in a bus stop somewhere in between, in a small town. The bathroom at the stop, as expected, was beyond belief. None of us could go in there. But us guys had ways to go find relief. The girls, one a Punjabi the other Bengali, went to a private residence nearby and asked if they might be able to use their facilities. Guess what? They were rudely turned away. We were horrified. It hit me so hard, that for a long time thereafter I felt awful about those folks. I tried to rationalize that if every bus had a passenger or two who would go asking to use their facilities, it could be a terrible problem. One could understand their refusal. But somehow I never could come to terms with that experience. It was very upsetting. And those unfriendly faces staring at us strangers remain etched in a jolted psyche. At 9:43 PM -0500 5/11/05, Roy, Santanu wrote: There are always the good, the bad and the ugly. And among the upward moving private sector workers, the need to be polite and courteous has finally entered the incentive system. But it is true that left to his or her elements, an average person from the Delhi-Haryana- eastern Punjab-Western UP belt is much more likely (than say, an eastern or southern Indian) to be rude to a stranger for absolutely no reason at all. In the rural areas, a woman who is not from the village is often fair game for molestation. It is ingrained in the culture of the place - a brutal history of conflict and struggle for survival against a very hostile climate that has prevented the growth of any soft social norms. In a sense, gods died there long time ago. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chan Mahanta Sent: Thu 5/12/2005 10:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] Lethal dose of mannerism Kamal: I understand your disgust. I was treated worse at the left-luggage-shack at Delhi airport. I kept thinking about why that punk was so rude. Later I thought that perhaps he expected a hefty 'bakshish'. Not that I am tight-fisted to the degree that I could not leave him a tip, but that comes AFTER the business transaction. On the other hand I had this terrific experience with a young KLM representative in the horrendously chaotic IGI Airport: He helped us with the check-in line, came to look us up every ten or fifteen minutes as we progressed at snails pace to the boarding gate, a very helpful and courteous young man. So I offered a decent tip at the end. But he would NOT accept it. I tried to explain to him that there is nothing wrong in accepting it. But to no avail. He kept saying, Sir, it is my job. Another example: We stayed at a fancy hotel at the posh Delhi suburb of of Gurgaon once. The folks were very nice. Too nice--to the degree that our daughter was complaining that the overly helpful young lady was getting too personal :-). Anyway, my niece, who works at a call-center, came to dinner with us at the hotel, and then we all went to the airport straight, to fly back. There was not enough time for me to drop her off at her apartment. I was worried sick, that she would have to go back home from the airport, alone, that late in the evening, in a Delhi taxi-cab. But explained my predicament to the hotel front desk clerk before he called the taxi. He said Sir, don't worry'. I gave a fat tip to the taxicab before he drove off from the airport with my niece in his taxi. Sure enough there was NO problem. But I WAS worried sick, until we got home and spoke to my niece. The
Re: [Assam] incredible Harvard trained Chinese Univ Presidents!!
Some more - a. Infosys and Wipro - both are billion dollar companies now and from the look of it they are beating Accenture and IBM in some cases now. b. Biocon in biotech c. Escorts and Apollo in Medical Tourism d. Rina Dhaka, Kavita Bhartia and other designers doing designs for Galeries Lafayette in Paris this summer e. OmaxAuto, Anand, Igarshi etc. as tier 2 auto component manufacturers. f. Oh yes, tata small cars in Europe too - it has a small start but a promising one. --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder how many Indian companies dare sell in US under Indian brand names (except for Indian ethnic products in Indian stores). Well, Umesh, I know of at least two. Mahindra Tractors and Escort Tractors do sell under their own brand names. In fact both of them are doing extremely well (specially Mahindra). Mahindra, is probably the fastest selling medium range tractor. I have come across a number of farmers in the Texas Hill country who swear up down on Mahindra. They like the price and the performance. BTW: they don't sell these in the Indian ethinic stores :-) --Ram da On 5/11/05, umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Ijust met afew people from China - whowere ALL presidents ofvariousgovt run universities and technical colleges. They had just completed a 2 week training program especially organized for them at Harvard Graduate School of Education. All expenses paid by the Chinese Govt. About 30 people were there. Many had children studying in America, Europe and Australia and some did not know English. They had an interpretar to translate into Chinese and vice versa. I learned that now inChina grade 3 onwards in primary school students start learning English - so - except for my Indian accent which was a bit difficult for the Chinese (even more than for Americans) I can find my way about in China --would seem easier than being in Tamil Nadu or Kerala -whose language is as foreign to me as Chinese. Today saw a two page advt in Wall Street Journal by a Chinese company selling computers Lenovo - this company has purchased IBM's PC division globally and now selling PCs in US under own brand name as well!! I wonder how many Indian companies dare sell in US under Indian brand names (except for Indian ethnic products in Indian stores). Though, I did see an article in Harvard' Crimson newspaper about global reach of Indian advertising agencies. Umesh How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] even if you don't like Hindi films
Unfortunately it escapes some people that, to some of this thinking set, the alternatives presented (to the dysfuntional Indian system) do not give the confidence that they will do better. In fact, they do the opposite - they give cause for visions of long years of anarchy, mahyem and misery - a system way worse than what exists today. This is not about being risk averse or paranoid. It is simply about NOT being attracted to a really bad idea. It is a fundamental tenet that new ideas that seek change have to be way more attractive. That those ideas themselves and the progenitors and executors of those ideas have the intrinsic capability to sell themselves to enough groups of people to convince them to be converted. If enough people are not converted, and seemingly enough aren't - it typically follows that the apple is rotten (in whole or in parts) enough not to be eaten. Now just because that demand for change in India is not loud enough does not mean that Assam ought to languish with the rest. That is MY point. I know it unnerves many of you, and more so because I framed it together with the argument that if need be Assam will have to wrest the control of its destiny from a dysfunctional Indian system. That kind of defiance is scary for you good but highly risk averse folks. Now why would that bother a highly informed person like you or Ram or BK or Dilip or Kamal, if mine is a hare-brained , far-out idea, like you all assert it is? Obviously you can see the merit of my arguments, and that is why you get concerned that others do too, that if thinking people begin to accept and advocate such ideas it may strengthen ULFA's defiance of Indian rule. So you defend the status-quo, the dysfunctional state, like a deity, even though you do not really believe it. But it is time to change that stance. You have so much to contribute. Take care. c __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/apr/28ulfa.htm
Now the ULFA is a designated terrorist organization as per the US Government State Department. The report mentions it receives aid from unknown external sources. Wonder who these sources are! What are the implications for citizens and other residents of USA vis-a-vis this? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/apr/28ulfa.htm
Guantanamo perhaps? And weren't we told American demokrasy was perfect (vis-a-vis the desi demokrasy i.e.)? At 8:17 AM -0700 4/28/05, Rajib Das wrote: Now the ULFA is a designated terrorist organization as per the US Government State Department. The report mentions it receives aid from unknown external sources. Wonder who these sources are! What are the implications for citizens and other residents of USA vis-a-vis this? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/apr/28ulfa.htm
Does political reciprocity mean that if India and USA agree to a quid pro quo arrangement in terms of my terrorist is your terrorist too (and the US Congress approves) such sanctions could come into play? --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The actual report can be found on the US State department web-site: http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/c14813.htm The report is made to the Congress as part of a statutory requirement of facts and actions taken with respect to international terrorist activity that harms the interests of US citizens. These are subject to direct legal and exceutive sanctions. This year's report also mentions other facts in order to appraise Congress of the global context of terrorist activity and in that context, lists some groups that are not known to have directly harmed the interest of any US citizens. It follows that such groups are not going to attract any sanctions nor those supporting them - unless the US congress decides to take special measures on the basis of a political reciprocity argument from the administration. ULFA is listed in the latter category. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajib Das Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:18 AM To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: [Assam] http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/apr/28ulfa.htm Now the ULFA is a designated terrorist organization as per the US Government State Department. The report mentions it receives aid from unknown external sources. Wonder who these sources are! What are the implications for citizens and other residents of USA vis-a-vis this? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] The meek shall be homeless -II
Amongst those point by point answers, this one stands out a bit. ULFA. But those who are ready to sacrifice their lives Are those in power in the ULFA organization sacrificing their lives?? The foot soldiers aren't quite in power, are they? in defence of a goal, one Are they defending a goal?? Is the goal unambiguous, unchanged and unshakeable or have other interim goals taken over? if they get power, They have power - albeit limited power. They have the power to put in bombs all over Assam. How exactly are they showing power? they must not follow the same defective and dysfunctional ways of desi-demokrasy. Are they demonstrating, in the way they conduct the defence of their goal (in their limited demonstration of power) - that they are NOT following the same defective... blah...?? desi-demokrasy. That they must put in place something better. Have they shown the something better alternative to the people? Do their current actions show that there is indeed something better on the horizons? In many opinions, the morning isn't quite showing the day. Are the ULFA or for that any other insurgency leaders that great, dynamic, honest capable of leading the country to peace and prosperity? *** I am not in a position to speak on behalf of the ULFA. But those who are ready to sacrifice their lives in defence of a goal, one might think, might be smart enough to realize that if they get power, they must not follow the same defective and dysfunctional ways of desi-demokrasy. That they must put in place something better. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Road to Success
I didn't hear about any MLA (or ex MLA) voicing words of support to the harassed citizenry on the Lakhra road. Somehow the electoral mathematics allows these MLAs to shun large sections of the public at will. The only thing that works on the Lakhra road is the Tata Scorpio - everything else is almost like driving recreational (I wish) off road vehicles! --- Anjan K. Nath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craters still in place after 7-day deadline A STAFF REPORTER April 18: The Kamrup metropolitan administration has blamed the public works department (PWD) for failing to repair the Rajgarh road even after the expiry of the seven-day deadline. The administration had promised to repair the road after women, youths and businessmen, having shops in Rajgarh, blocked the road on April 8 in protest against Dispur's criminal negligence towards it. Sources said the administration had asked the chief engineer of PWD (road) to start work on the stretch soon after the protest. Executive magistrate Rahul Chandra Das personally spoke to PWD officials about the poor condition of the road soon after he pacified the residents on April 8, a source said. The PWD in turn has shifted the blame to pre-monsoon rains. There is a project to repair the road, but pre-monsoon rains disrupted early execution of the work, an official said. He added that the administration cannot force the PWD to start work. Such instruction must come from Dispur. We can only play the role of a facilitator between citizens and the PWD, the official said. The Rajgarh road is an important and busy link, connecting various parts of Dispur and West Guwahati Assembly constituencies. Residents of Chandmari, Noonmati, RG Baruah Road and Pub Sarania take this shortcut to GS Road. However, years of neglect have turned the road into a nightmare for drivers. Even now, work on the road has not even started though the seven-day deadline has expired. This has generated resentment and anger among the residents. Many of them threatened to launch a vigorous agitation if the road is not repaired soon. Nirmala Deka, a 60-year-old woman who joined the last road blockade, said it is sad that even after submitting a memorandum to chief minister Tarun Gogoi, work on Rajgarh road has not started. Former MLA of East Guwahati, Biraj Kumar Sarma, said the Rajgarh road is a glaring example of the Congress government's false promises to the people. ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Re: Roads in Assam
Talking of roads in Assam, the Lokhra road in Guwahati, passing through Lal Ganesh - and I have talked about it before as well - are probably the worst in any part of the state (perhaps India as well), worse than the craters of the moon. There is even a news item on this one on Assam Tribune. People protesting (surprising but good) and them getting Lathi charged - the MLA/MP from the area obviously turning a blind eye for a long time. ASSAM TRIBUNE Police lathicharge protesters in Lokhra By A Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, April 11 Several persons were injured when police resorted to lathicharge at Lalganesh area in the city this afternoon to disperse a crowd of people who were blocking the Lokhra road in protest against the failure of the authorities to repair the road. Police also arrested hundreds of persons taking part in the agitational programme under the banner of the Dakshin Guwahati Unnayan Samannoyrakhsi Samiti and the city unit of the Asom Jatiyatabadi Yuva-Chattra Parishad (AJYCP), from various parts of the Ambari Cycle Factory-Lokhra area like Ambari Cycle Factory, Lokhra and Lalganesh. Mentionably, the people of the localities on the Lokhra Road have been agitating for quite a long time now protesting the apathy of the authorities towards improving the condition of the road. The State administration had about two months back, announced a programme to improve the condition of the road. But the people of the localities have resented that the announcement of the Government was only a step to hoodwink the common people. --- Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AKN: I am not at all surprised at your findings, and I am so glad that you are trying to get to the bottom of things. But is not it shocking though?. How can Assamese civil engineers be so far behind the rest of India? Apparently Assam has not progressed at all from the pre independence British days. How can the people of Assam have allowed this to happen? But looking at the conditions of the roads in Assam, one can be sure that something must be terribly wrong in the system. What is news however is the fact that this is not a news at all to the Assamese media. A typical Hob Diok mentality again. There is no investigative journalism, no serious reporting from any quarter. Litikai Assamese media and the public is happy to tag along India and publish whatever garbage the mainland India consider as news: like Chief Minister Modi's visa denial and what not. It is always a wonder to me how can there be so much apathy on the part of the people of Assam?. What is the reason? Why it is not a news to Assam, why the people of Assam are revolting? Why? Why? While writing these lines, an answer came to my mind. I think it is because the situation in Assam is so hopeless (or the people feel so hpeless) that the general public donot have any faith in the system at all. There is a deeper reason for this for this lack of faith. I think today Assamese societies are pregnant with ideas like : that they are living in 'koli kal' and this is the way it is, that there is corruption everywhere in India, that it is even worse outside Assam, that one cannot believe anyone, that the Indian system is about to collapse if not already broken and that it a question of time only when something terrible will happen. With such ideas in their brain, it is easy for them to believe that the main reason Assam is underdeveloped is that GOI is exploiitng Assam and that they are not giving enough money to Assam etc. In such atmosphere, they cannot see the reality that the system is breaking mainly in Assam, and the Assamese people need to stand up on their own and that if we need to fix anthything we must start with the system in Assam and not in Gujarat or Delhi. One way to enlighten the people is to write this type of investigative report and show the people the reality. The road construction may be one case, but there are many. Anjan, frankly speaking you should take this 'Road Construction' in Assam a typical case in point and try to go the bottom. If you want to write, I would give all my supports. This net may not be the right platform for our discussion, and if necessary we will go offline and do some investigative research. You can write a series of articles in Assam News paper or you can write a book in plain road construction. I don't mind being a co author and contribute something on road construction in America and South America. The roads in Brazil will be interesting to know because they are in the similar type of rainforest. You should also try to find out what they are doing in Burma and Thailand. I believe if you can write such a book, your late father would be happy. What do you say to that? Well it may sound like a bit high thinking, But we must start somewhere, and you have already started. All I am trying to do is to give you some ideas and say: Don't stop. There will be many
Re: [Assam] SC NOTICE ON DALIT CHRISTIANS
Wouldn't that be true whether Dalits remain as Hindus or convert? That this question needs to be posed and answered itself is a reflection on Hinduism, Hindus and India. Religion, like political idealogy is a tool for social emancipation. And its attractiveness should be in its ability to present opportunities for EVERYONE in its fold to reach God (or whatever else) without any qualifications. Cleary Hinduism and Hindus have failed to rise up to giving this opportunity throughout history except in bits and spurts - perhaps it also explains why we have been ruled for so long by outsiders. That Dalit Christians (or Muslims) face the same problems that Dalit Hindus face is an indictment of Hindu society more than anything else. We have the capability to infuse our inequities into others in our midst. When Muslims go to Mecca, they go as one people (even if the Arabs would like to consider themselves as truer Muslims). The Bible talks of all men as being equal. But in our everyday rituals and practice of Hinduism, we will find inequities at every step. Brahmin priests and the rest of us who take their services (many of us) give great importance to religious scholars who espoused these inequities (and their prescribed rituals) instead of relegating them to the trashbins of history. The Dalit Christian or Muslim has at least the promise of equality given by their God and His Word. The mullah or the Christian priest cannot and does not change that interpretation. The Dalit Hindu has no such thing. It is the duty of the institutions that govern India to make sure those that need emancipation and empowerment get emancipated and empowered. If that means giving Dalit Christians quota protection, why should there be any hulla? Or is the fear that giving them the quota will mean all dalits will convert to Christianity? The SC should give that quota - at least there is a chance the purveyors of Hinduism (and movements within) could face up to market forces, make necessary changes and bring all people into one fold. OR India will become a Christian nation but at least one people. Either is a better alternative. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wouldn't that be true whether Dalits remain as Hindus or convert? *** I don't know. My assessment is from the historical trends. If the Hindus ( I mean the educated, intellectually oriented ones who have been the pillars of society) have been unable to help open the eyes of their compatriots to the disgrace of 'untouchability' for so long, why should anyone expect miracles in a couple of generations to come? Dalits today are not discriminated against or ostracized as much as years ago (as Hindus). *** Since I don't know any Dalit personally, I can only go by what I hear and read about. The latest disgrace was from the Tsunami victim shelters which we read about just so recently. And that in camps staffed and managed by India's best, or so it might be interpreted- not illiterate bigots from some remote corner of Bihar or MP. It was from 21st Century Tamil Nadu, home to some of Hindu-dom's most significant intellects. *** It is always nice to hope for better. But hope must be founded on observable trends, not on wishful thinking. *** Yes, I know my observations and comments rub Hindus the wrong way. But that is the whole idea :-). To ring the chimes of the faithful. If lots of people did that, like Hindu intellectuals who ought to know better, maybe it would have been different by now. But many of these find it easier to present ridiculous defense for untouchability or present favorable spin to it rather than speak out unequivocally against the practice. At 7:00 PM + 4/12/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: But I would submit that it would be conceivable to imagine that in subsequent gens. the burdens of a Dalit's social ostracism would recede faster in the folds of Buddhism or Christianity, than among Hindus. Wouldn't that be true whether Dalits remain as Hindus or convert? I mean, in the general sense, Dalits today are not discriminated against or ostracized as much as years ago (as Hindus). I went thru a couple of websites on Dalits. One, in fact is the Worldwide Dalits' site. Browsing thru, one would come across numberous articles on the mistreatment of Dalits by caste Hindus etc. But the pleasant surprise was a section on matrimonials' where the listing for Dalit grooms had some very well qualified Dalits, Doctors, Enggs. etc. Obviously, the Dalits themselves have some sub-castes (one article in these sites talks about that too), and those that are being ostracized are not the well-to-do Dalits, but those in the lowest rung of the social order (the sweepers, cleaners etc.). And the women seem to be on the receiving end of it all. Here the Dalits self-impose the injustices. ***When Sumitra Bai left her
[Assam] The Jamiat flexes its muscle in Assam
Interesting article! http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050404/asp/frontpage/story_4571088.asp The Jamiat has that much of an influence in Assam? __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] Reply to Mridul, Part II
Damn these Indians!!! They don't know how to think for themselves, have no idea about how to govern. No brains. The inability to communicate what changes they seek. They never had before, they don't have it now and they will never have. It is in their genes. When they don't seek any changes or when they do indeed seek some others, they are being stupid. When they mumble inanities to inane questions they are being stupid twice over. Anything good in governance or economy they have done is a fluke. How did so many duffers gather in one place? They need others in other parts of the world such as St. Louis to instruct them how to lead their lives. So why did these guys in St. Louis and other places in America take 300 years to figure out that segregation is a bad thing? And why of all things, does evolution versus creationism takes so much political space? Damn!! :-) *** I have read maybe one or two articles at most arguing in favor of widespread and radical reforms, in these last ten years or so of my web-surfing life. I realize that means little. But one can also make educated guesses about the desire for such among the desi-population or among the ex-pats. Among the desis, it is totally absent, the concept seems completely alien. Had that been there, young and otherwise informed people like Mridul, who are energetic about contributing their fair share to the collective good, would not make the kind of arguments they do. And we have seen these arguments in Assam Net umpteen times. When one poses such questions as how do you see things turned around, they become speechless, they mumble inanities about how democracy is imperfect and other garbled gobledy-gook. You have already heard the well-worn cliche: We are like that only. If asked WHY people in India are 'like that only', they would explain 'our people are bad', Assamese are bad, Indiansare bad, Gujaratis are REALLY bad, and so forth. And if you get real mean and ask them how they remained good while their desi compatriots are all bad, they slink away to get another drink to bury their sorrows in, or play no-comprendo or begin to wax pseudo-philosophical. However Ram, you can defend yourself well if you can pull a couple of articles from your research or archives and post them in Assam Net. I will accept the notion that even such a small sampling would establish a trend, even though it would be only voo-doo statistics at best. Being the ever generous person I am, I would also let you post your own arguments where you might have made some credible arguments, explaining the whys and hows of such reforms. But until such time, I shall not back down on my assessment, and I shall bear the mighty burden of being charged with 'displaying utter disdain for all things desi', like I have always done with quiet dignity and the strength of my aging and drooping shoulders. More autonomy for states has always been accepted by many people for the Indian democracy. But this should in no way be construed as 'sovereignity'. Right now we do not see any valid arguments for a sovereign Assam - politically or practically. *** Now for the juicy part, the petit-sirloin, to bite into: I remember that. And I certainly admire such broadmindedness. But there is a little catch here, it could 22, could be 23. It is to expose that little catch that I posed the question to mwr Oxom Netor manoniyo bondhuxokolok, ji-xokole oti-bibesonaxilotare aru modhyostotare 'swayttwo xaxon'r proxongxa kori adori loboloi issa prokax korisil: Apwnalwkok kiyo 'oxomor babe' swayotto xaxon lage'? Apwnalwkor monot kiyo oxomok swaytooto xaxon lage, jar obihone oxomot xanti aru unnotir probol byaghat ghoti ahise ba bhobisytot ghotibo? Pise mwrei durbhagyo, uttorot kewol mwr xadharonote xobak bondhuborgoi hoy amta-amta korile, nohoy nimati koinar rup loi swsa mari rwh ghorot xwmalgoi eke' kwbe'. ( This will be hard to translate, but I will try. TGIF after all: I posed the question Why do you want autonomy for Assam, without which it either cannot achieve peace or continue on a path of progress? But it was my misfortune, that when I posed the question, my otherwise articulate and honorable opponents in these debates, either resorted to inscrutable platitudes or took umbrage at my asking nasty questions.) But I won't hold my friends in suspense for ever: I asked the question to lead us to the next possible eventuality: What if any possible 'autonomy' would not come with the freedom to enact effective reforms in the many significant areas, such as the electoral process, the system of law enforcement and justice, getting rid of outdated and unenforceable laws and regulations whose only function is to continue to empower corruption,power to prioritize development, the control of resources, authority to levy taxes, usher-in enlightened development and economic policies, so on and so forth? Without those it will amount to little more than 'kona-haanhok potan dhan diya. And why am I
Re: [Assam] Reply to Mridul, Part II
Incidentally, doesn't India have better voter turnouts on an average than the US of A? --- Prasenjit Chetia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi CM; I don't agree when you said Quote The 'thinking Indians who deliberately show disrespect to Indian democracy by abstaining from voting' that bothers you are probably demonstrating a surrender to the state of affairs. Elections come and go, new govts. come and go, but little changes to the state of affairs. People would put up with slogans only for so long. After rounds of the same, comes a time people would give up. Unquote. Does a low voter turnout indicates surrender ? I don't think so. Take 2004 lok sabha, nagaland was torn apart by the kuki, nscn conflicts and so was manipur. But they registered 91% and 67% turnout while maharastra contributed to 54% valid votes casted. Assam had a not too bad 69% turnout. Does that indicate in maharastra people are fed up with democracy and coming and going of goverments ? Maharastra accounts for one of the largest percentage of GOI grants. The reason behind low turnout can be varied depending on the issues which come as a flash just before the D-Day of voting. The case of Nagaland was a depiction of hope for a change not to lose it and sit at home. If Nagaland can have that hope why not assam ? If the people of assam learn from previous betrayals and act judiciously, change can be possible within the present framework. The system can't corrupt the people, people themselves corrupt it. Prasenjit On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:08:25 -0800 (PST), Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is a well thought out and well composed letter. I support you in your thought process. Change is needed in Indian politics and constitution and the young generation must make that happen in stead of accepting the status quo. They are changing the social and cultural aspects but the enlightened ones among them must get into politics and shake up the hold that the corrupt ones have had. However I must add that such changes do not have to be via arms and violence. Long term planning and gradual change should be the guiding principles, and that needs long term commitment from the proponents of modern India. Sovereignty is not a practical solution, more autonomy is. Dilip Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi M: It is not my intent to keep beating a dead horse. However, a couple of additional issues you raised need to be looked into. Regarding Indian democracy, irrespective of others, that you have mentioned, I respect Indian democracy inspite of giving birth to so many Laloos, mulayams, advanis, modis. It will definitely take time to improve upon the things with billions of illiterate people on board, and the damage inflicted upon by the Nehru Dynasty. *** I have no problem with your respect for Indian democracy. However it ought NOT to be a blind one. That because it is Indian, its flaws ought to be overlooked or hidden, or its failures and shortcomings ought to be accepted as inevitable. Lot of people,intelligent, educated and otherwise able people do and have, and that is why Indian democracy is in the shape it is in today. It is a culmination of living in denial for way too long. Just like Raman described in his Rediff article very credible details, albeit very unwittingly. I am glad to hear from you however, that your generation, the younger generation, is serious about changing. I wish you well. But to change, you must know what is faulty, what is broken. And you can pin-point that only by keeping an open mind, with willingness to find them and put your fingers on them. If you get defensive when someone points it out, subtly like political scientists and diplomats, or not so subtly by your fellow men or irreverent Assam Netters :-), it would not help you with your quest for problem definition. It would only lead you to unsavory experiences like a hit on the head with a baseball bat of a visa denial to Modi by the USA, again and again. Did you notice what happened to Modi's UK travel plans yesterday? And his China travel plans earlier, which were kept under wraps so far, but got exposed now? *** I agree with you that an educated polity is essential for improving the quality of democracy. But literacy is NOT a measure of such education. An illiterate person can be far more educated than one with multiple degrees. Just look at all the civil-service babus, who have umpteen degrees and are walking encyclopedias and how they have contributed to the degradation of democracy in India. Furthermore, this ready explanation of your generation for Indian society's ills is a rather un-informed one at best. To realize that, all you need to do is ask who have been running the country since independence? Was it the 'illiterates'?
[Assam] another denied visa
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpagefile_name=story7%2Etxtcounter_img=7 This time it is an Indian Muslim public figure. On account of terrorism support. I wonder what Biju Mathew and his CAG supporters are saying! Kalbe Sadiq unlike the plethora of pan-Islamic Wahabi scholars, is very much an Islamic idealogue that is a nationalist, wants progressive reform of Muslim personal law in India (and not fearful of the Wahabi and secularist bodies to say so) and is a progressive along lines many Indians want for all Indians, including Muslims. Should Indians NOT be outraged about this one? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Reply to Mridul-Part I
On this issue, here is the latest on Biju Mathew, one of the instigators of CAG http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/essays/biju_mathew.html This guy has obviously been, for long, against Hindu dollars flowing into India. The usual commie that: a. Chooses to come to USA but not lose the red b. Chooses to delegitimise anything Hindu and has done so for a long time. Never mind all the humbug about humanity, this whole anti-Modi thing is guided by those whose main cause is politics and that would cut off anything pro-Hindu if they could. And as usual, with all that this guy is doing, he is completely silent on the funding of US based Christian missionary organizations into very often deceitful activities such as conversion by fraud. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi M: But I sincerely wish that someday India will be in a position to tell US to mind its own business and not to poke its nose to others toilets. *** Yours is an undisguised expression of hurt national pride . And that hurt is happening, because you allowed Modi to become a symbol of India. If you had not, like Jug Suraiya explained eloquently, that pride would not be hurt. And you could have basked in the warmth of the praises the ex-US Ambassador showered on Indian democracy in the article you saw in Assam Net the other day. Obviously you don't quite believe that article either. But I won't blame you for that. Because we cannot let someone else fool us into believing that we are something we are not. If we did, we would be submitting to: naakit dhori saakit ghuruwa -- ( as a Xiboxagoriya like me, I am sure you know the meaning of the 'fokora' :-)). 'Oti bhokti swror lokhyon' --remember? When someone showers us with exaggerated praises, it means someone is trying get something from us on the sly. Also, your expression of disgust with Modi's misdeeds or BJP's divisive policies don't ring true. Because you are hurt by the insult to Modi meted out by the USA. Something isn't meshing here. But I think I know what it is: *** You like Raman the Rediff columnist, and like so many otherwise intelligent and able Indians, both in India as well as abroad are resigned to the Indian condition that the majority will continue to massacre minorities, stomp on their rights, exploit them and would not hesitate to deny them justice, with impunity, like it has always been, since independence. That in spite of the fact that you yourselves do not approve of it personally, and actually might even be ashamed of it. *** You too, like Raman and many other bright Indians are so pre-occupied with proving to anyone who would listen, that the so-called secularists ( code name for the Congress party and the leftist labeled ones), are so much more responsible for some of these despicable and shameful episodes of Indian history than the Hindu nationalists like Modi, that you completely ignore the real issue: The inability of Indian democracy, even after fifty years of independence, to be able to organize the essential institutions of its governance to provide even the most basic and essential of services such as the right to life and liberty to its most vulnerable constituents -- the minorities and those who do not have either the strength of numbers or political or economic clout. But who is worse, the Congress and the 'Leftist' with their secular aura or the BJP with its supporters in the Hinduttwa crowd, is quite immaterial to those who are victims of Indian governmental ineptitude. That should be apparent to people like you, who are highly educated and are expected to understand the most basic values of a free and fair society. It has little to do with labels and political partisanship but everything to do with the most fundamental of human rights and dignity. Even though it is probably not a good idea on my part to cite it to someone who is as tied up with the Hindu identity as you described yourself to be :-), there is a saying among the Irish Catholic Christians: I will be judged on how I treat the least among us. Isn't that something noble to strive for? I will follow with more on the points you raise. In the meantime, forget any worry about hurting my 'national pride' :-). I have none. I deal with issues without regard to national, political,religious, linguistic or cultural affiliations or dogmas. But I do take my humanity seriously. cm At 12:49 PM +0530 3/23/05, mridul bhuyan wrote: Hi Chan, The question is will India ever dare to do that? *** Exactly! Beggars usually
Re: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi-some more
The question is will India ever dare to do that? *** Exactly! Beggars usually don't get to be choosers--to put it bluntly. Particularly when the beggar happens to be a tyrant that escaped justice. When the head of European Commission came calling while talking negative about Kashmir, he had the door shut on him. This beggars cannot be... thing seems to be the usual condition of rhetoric getting out of hand. The author seems to live in a different world, oblivious of the changes in the undercurrents in the world. When Bush goes to China and talks about giving more freedom to Christian evangelists, he STILL lives with the fear of the Chinese showing him the thumb some day soon. Tyrant escaping justice would possibly fit Condy and Bush better. But we are missing the real important part of the story, which is, that the USA and other major and mature democracies do not exactly respect Indian democracy very much. And not just that, informed and thinking Indians do not either, whether in India or whether abroad. Let's see. At last count, the US of A was respecting a Jihadist monarchy in Saudi Arabia, a military junta in Pakistan, sundry such juntas across South America, the Taliban of Afghanistan (not so long back), the Shah of Iran. Obviously these democracies are more bothered about respecting oil and national interest than democracy, Indian or otherwise. Clearly, someone has also taken on the right to opine on behalf of informed and thinking Indians without bothering to check the barometer on the ground. As a thinking Indian, Mridul Bhuyan ought to be asking the hard question about the quality of Indian democracy, and not take insult with Modi being insulted, and deservedly so. If Modi is a symbol or made into a symbol of Indian national pride then India deserves every bit it got on this, and more. It is obviously not evident to this writer that this issue is not about Modi. That an elected representative's visa being denied is indeed a fit case for national pride being hurt. Perhaps this post itself is not about Modi - but about India baiting with reason having flown out the window. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] From The Hindu
No one disputes the right of US to deny visas to anyone they choose to. But these choices are made based on hard politics - not respect of democracy or inspiration from humanity or whatever else. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/11208026.htm It just so happened in this case that the loony left and the muslim organizations of Indian Americans mobilized themselves. The Hindu organizations kept quiet and were perhaps unaware. And the US government, as always, heard the voice that shouted. And assumed it represented Indian Americans. I am sure this will find reflection in local dos. Perhaps, this fellow, Biju Thomas, will not find an Indian shop to shop his Indian groceries in. The oldest Indian grocer in Silicon Valley proudly flaunted his Khalistani roots - with a banner that said Khalistan Zindabad, India murdabad or something like that. His shop languishes in one corner of India alley - small, and unattended. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.hindu.com/2005/03/21/stories/2005032101731000.htm This should clarify the confusion of the many crying foul. cm Modi, the U.S., and visa power By Siddharth Varadarajan If the BJP believes it is a victim of U.S. double standards, it has also benefited from the same duplicity in the past. THE DENIAL of a U.S. visa to Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi has evoked a predictably strong reaction from the Bharatiya Janata Party, less strident objections from the Congress party and a formal, diplomatically correct protest from the government of India, whose note verbale requesting a visa went unheeded. For Mr. Modi, who identified closely with many of the policies of the Bush administration, the visa denial is a particularly cruel blow. After all, the United States was perhaps the only major (or minor) country in the `West' not to express its concerns about the Gujarat violence while it was going on. Even tiny Finland saw fit to raise its voice, inviting a stinging rebuke from the External Affairs Ministry, but not Washington. The BJP says the visa rejection has hurt India's national pride but this does not appear to be a perception that is shared widely by Indians, who see the saffron party's appeals to swabhimaan (self-respect) and constitutionalism as largely self-serving. There is no Constitution in the world that requires a country to grant foreign nationals a visa to enter its territory; on the other hand, every Constitution, India's included, obliges governments to investigate and punish individuals involved in large-scale violence against its citizens. Investigations by the National Human Rights Commission, the CBI (in the Bilkis Bano case), and scores of non-governmental bodies have documented numerous acts of omission and commission, suggesting official connivance with the perpetrators of the violence. Even if one accepts the argument that Mr. Modi knew nothing at all about the manner in which more than 2,000 Muslims were targeted and killed across his State in the weeks following the Godhra incident of 2002, his failure to investigate these crimes and punish the guilty is manifest. No less a judicial authority than the Supreme Court of India has pointed this out. All countries exercise their right to issue visas (and even passports) keeping in mind their own definition or perception of national interest. Thus, the National Democratic Alliance Government tightened the procedure for granting foreign scholars visas to attend conferences on political subjects or conduct research on sensitive topics or areas. More recently, a Dutch professor and expert on Assam and the Northeast had his application for an Indian visa rejected. Foreign governments can protest, concerned Indians can criticise their Government's pig-headedness and agitate for a more liberal approach, and the courts may intervene but that is unfortunately the way the law works. In the United States, perhaps more than any other country, visas have always been used as a foreign policy tool. During the Cold War, membership in a Communist party or allied organisation was grounds for a visa rejection, as was former membership of the Nazi party. Over the years, hundreds of dissident or progressive intellectuals and artistes were denied U.S. visas because of their Leftist views (and this continues to happen on a slightly diminished scale even now). In practice, being a Nazi was much less of a disqualification - since the U.S. was interested in recruiting German rocket and nuclear scientists and intelligence assets - but that issue need not detain us here. Ever since the end of the Cold War, the U.S. has started rejecting visas on the grounds of involvement in corruption, torture and human rights abuses, and violations of religious freedom. These
Re: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi-some more
If body count be the metric on which guilt is established, I wonder whether we need to wonder at all as to who is a more guilty person - Bush (and Rumsfield)or Narendra Modi. By conservative estimates they would have killed 100 times over. Oh yes, they also got as many of their own (American soldiers) killed. So, shall we say, the position espoused in this e-mail is a demonstration of typical American disregard of law. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Umesh: So with that analogy -- it doesn't seem that US is taking that extreme step -- so does US really blame Modi for hindu-muslim riots. I do not see US doing anything when riots are going on anywhere - unless the terrorists bomb US -like in Sep11. There are limits, boundaries which even a Bush admin. or Wolfowitz or Rumsfeldt would not cross, and should not. The pogrom of Muslims in Gujarat is a horrible stigma to the Indian civilization. But that notwithstanding, the USA cannot and should not attempt to intervene militarily. It should have ( I don't know if it did) intervened diplomatically. My guess would be is that it did, perhaps to no avail. But that is not an US failure: It was a singularly Indian failure. Therefore, your doubts, as expressed in the question So why this nonsense? is an illustration of more of the same: An appalling Indian disregard to the rule of law. c-da At 2:24 AM + 3/19/05, umesh sharma wrote: C-da, I cannot agree or disagree with you since the issue u mention about Indira Gnadhi and Indian Americans reactions about many issues - since I do not know anything about them. However, I would say that if my neighbour is butchering his or her children -- I would enter by force --and stop her/him. So with that analogy -- it doesn't seem that US is taking that extreme step -- so does US really blame Modi for hindu-muslim riots. I do not see US doing anything when riots are going on anywhere - unless the terrorists bomb US -like in Sep11. So why this nonsense? Umesh Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Umesh: At 9:58 PM + 3/18/05, umesh sharma wrote: C-da, I am not an expert on international visa law- but if we start giving visas based on our perception of what happens in other countries --then I would say that we are interfering in the affairs of that nation. *** There is no such thing as Int'l Visa Laws. Each country has its own rules, and often have agreements or understandings for reciprocity etc. with other countries. And the more powerful or influential a nation is, the more arbitrary they can get about what they choose to do. However the US not granting a visa to Modi or whoever, does not constitute interference with another country's internal affairs. That complaint of interfering with the internal affairs of another country usually emanates from people attempting to keep their internal dirt under their rug. Unfortunately, or fortunately in this case :-), there are people here in the USA who have an interest in what goes on in India. I am certainly pleased to see that the progressive desis here including Muslims ( I don't automatically exclude them) chose to raise their voice and send a signal. Not that it is going to hurt Modi. If anything he will now be a greater hero to all his supporters, all those rioteous :-) Hindus who believe that India is theirs and Muslims don't belong there. Who knows, he might become the supreme leader of the BJP now. I do not know whether it is supposed to be ethical that if there is a fight going on in a neighbor's house -- then you stop letting a member from that family into your own house. That is what Modi's visa stoppal amounts to be. *** Good analogy. What do you think? Would you consider your neighborly and human duty to interfere with the guy next-door attempting to butcher his children? What do you think of Indira Gandhi's interfering with Pakistan's internal affair when they were slaughtering B'Deshis? c-da Umesh PS: I mentioned about the truth being what the powerful say -- an instance -- the Union Carbide (USA's MNC) killed 10,000 people in Bhopal in Dec 1984 and maimed 200,000 (and thats a very hard and concrete fact) . Still India dare not ban it from its land --for the fear that all US based MNCs would stop coming to India or that India would stop getting defense supplies from powerful USA. If India had been powerful - its truth would have prevailed and Union Carbide (and its current owner Dupont) would be banned from India. But weak India cannot implement something which is the truest of the truths *** Business-interests often trump justice, doesn't it? What do you think of it? === message truncated ===
Re: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi-some more
For a while I wondered why this organization - an Indian American Christian body - was up in arms about Hitler Modi. Again Indians, with their typical Indian disregard for law (or is it that Hindus alone have that disregard?) and yet such a humanist position: http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/mar/19modi1.htm Could it be because Gujarat (and its tribal hinterland) is the first state where the Christian missionary bodies were beaten at their own games by the Vanvasi Kalyan Kendra. More money from overseas than the missionaries and the Christian evangelists. More conversion programs. Better evangelism. Better organization. Far better social and economic uplift results. Simply put, their crocin worked better. Is it, finally, is all about politics? --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - I am not going to comment on the hindu-muslim issue. But I object to the denial of a 'Diplomatic' visa after Govt. of India recommending it. Its an insult to GOvt. of India. Think about denying a visa to Mr.Powel for his role in Iraq. You are right. Thats an angle that India ought to think about. If this had come a few days earlier, then maybe India could have denied the visa for Rice. The US has given visas to many 'criminal' elements. Visas have Is been granted to Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams and to Arafat (a terrorist in US eyes) in the past. That is why, if the State Dept. followed an overall policy a opposed to a pick choose policy which can be influenced by pressure groups. The US is not dealing with an India of yester years. Today, India can well take a stand and the US would have to pay attention. --Ram ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] Anyone travelling to Guwahati in March - need travel companion for mom
Hi, Don't know whether this kind of post is allowed here or not - if not apologies before hand. Is anyone travelling to Guwahati - either through Mumbai, Delhi or Kolkata in March? Would appreciate if you can let me know - my mom needs to travel back to India in March (before 25th) and she needs a travel companion. Her tickets are on Singapore Airlines from San Francisco - but can be changed. Thanks Rajib __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Wasbir Hussain on Naga Talks - Outlook India
But it is not convenient for the Center, it is NOT in Delhi's interests to have to deal with an unified NE. Where exactly is there an unified NE? Every one of these protagonists are working for their own liberation movements independent of any other. Nagas want their own, the Meitis their own, the Bodos their own and so on and so forth. Very obviously, many of these mutinies are not just against the center but against each other. Forget the center's interest, none of these parties would want talks in an unified manner. And especially with linguistic and ethnic aspirations in the NE, there is no basis for any kind of a unified approach and enough basis for conflict between groups. It becomes very convenient to blame the center about a grand conspiracy to divide the united people of the NE when some discussions are uncomfortable for certain groups. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] Wasbir Hussain on Naga Talks - Outlook India
Well, not quite. This formulation does not have a basis since the chief protagonists involved in the Indian independence fight - primarily the Congress in India (and perhaps the Muslim League for Muslims of the East and West) was able to coalesce Indians across geographies, bring forth a common set of interests that were best served by throwing out the British and was able to throw them out. There was one or 2 main players for most sections of people. Here we have a 1000 players for the thousand communities that have geographical and other interests that are in conflict with each other. Oh yes, I also forgot these players, except a few, do not quite have the capability (or did not or likely not to in the near future) to carry their masses (and not the others cohabiting the region with them in a fight to win against the center. Unlike the protagonists in the case of Indian indepedence. The analogy (or formulation), unfortunately, does not quite hold water. --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another formulation from the pages of history (untrue; with apologies): Where exactly is there an unified India? Every one of these protagonists are working for their own ... independent of any other. Hindus want their own, the Muslims their own, the Sikhs their own and so on and so forth. Very obviously, many of these mutinies are not just against her majesty's government but against each other. Forget the British empire's interest, none of these parties would want talks in an unified manner. And especially with linguistic and ethnic aspirations in India, there is no basis for any kind of a unified approach and enough basis for conflict between groups. It becomes very convenient to blame the British government about a grand conspiracy to divide the united people of India when some discussions are uncomfortable for certain groups. :-) :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajib Das Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 2:03 PM To: Chan Mahanta; ram Sarangapani; Assam Subject: Re: [Assam] Wasbir Hussain on Naga Talks - Outlook India But it is not convenient for the Center, it is NOT in Delhi's interests to have to deal with an unified NE. Where exactly is there an unified NE? Every one of these protagonists are working for their own liberation movements independent of any other. Nagas want their own, the Meitis their own, the Bodos their own and so on and so forth. Very obviously, many of these mutinies are not just against the center but against each other. Forget the center's interest, none of these parties would want talks in an unified manner. And especially with linguistic and ethnic aspirations in the NE, there is no basis for any kind of a unified approach and enough basis for conflict between groups. It becomes very convenient to blame the center about a grand conspiracy to divide the united people of the NE when some discussions are uncomfortable for certain groups. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Wave of Prodigals?
And in my not-so-humble opinion, in this case, is where your usual spin comes in. In the questions you frame. It is your opinion that reform is possible ONLY through a sovereign or autonomous government in Assam. Not in negotiating or forcing peace. Not in having a economic plan that can deliver jobs. Not in regenerating local bureacracy that can administer well. Not in the way the central government approaches the problems of the northeast. As things stand today, that is your opinion, not the absolute truth. That is the first question that people should be polled on. This sovereign government thing is not some nebulous entity. Each such government is symbolized by people/parties that lead and their agenda. It is not faceless. It is in these faces that people impose faith or reject. Or the ones that all the well meaning NRAs will look at and decide whether to go back to Assam or not. Which is why the second question should be about going back in situations where alternative faces of the government and their agenda are known. And that is why the questions need to be framed differently. Unless it is yet another acitivity to feel happy about hearing what one wants to hear. If someone wishes any such exercise to be an honest one, he or she will take the pains to make sure the right questions are asked. Incidentally, most people that I know, from different parts of India that are going back - and there are quite a few of my friends and peers from across India that are - are going back primarily for one reason - India presents a better economic opportunity at this point. Many in the IT industry will save more in absolute dollar terms, have a better quality of life and stay near their families in India. It is a no-brainer for them. A few folks I know from Assam are also going back. They are heading towards Bangalore or Chennai or Mumbai, not Guwahati. Well, it stands to reason that if Guwahati were moving forward economically like these other cities, they might just as well be heading towards Guwahati. Not because of the call from Tarun Gogoi or Arabinda Rajkhowa but perhaps from Azim Premji. I am sure the businessmen love the ULFA and the idea of paying double taxes. I am sure the people like paying extortion money as double taxes and see their taxes not used for bettering civic life but fill some coffers in Bangladesh. Perhaps a whole lot of people are looking forward towards the sovereign government of ULFA. At this point, frankly the chances of that happening are perhaps more remote than finding life on Uranus. Still it is a good point to poll on in AssamNet:-) Like I said the question is about a reform-minded (if you want) sovereign government under ULFA versus a reform-minded, economically focused government with peace in Assam and very much connected to India. And that is where the record of ULFA, their agenda for governance, their ability to win the war, bring peace and hold it, their depth and ability in getting Assam on a good economic plan (and perhaps with India breathing down their neck) etc will come into scrutiny. Are you afraid of the answers here? Or do you want to do an exercise to hear your own voice? Oh yes, when you do this poll (and whichever way the polls are answered), please also remember whatever are the answers that represents only the NRAs of AssamNet. Not Assam - it does not even have a normalized sample of folks from Assam. To get that exhaustive poll, I refer you back again to that 65% achieved a few years back in the last general election:-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 2:32 PM -0800 2/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: In Market Research, the right questions need to be framed in the right manner in a poll to get the correct picture of things. In this particular set of questions, the last question, obviously, is quite out of place. Instead, IMHO, it should read as follows: *** In my not-so-humble view, that is not what I was interested in finding out. If that is Rajib Das' marketing need he is free to do his own poll. My marketing need is to establish if reforms are sought by the Assam Diaspora. And since reforms are not possible under the current system, regardless of which party is in power, the only alternative would be a reform minded autonomous or sovereign Assam govt. If ULFA is involved in such a govt. ( and why not?), they are so few in number ( isn't that what we are told?) then they would need others to govern. So it could not be just the ULFA, but others as well. If there are plenty of ULFA to govern, even then they would need to get a lot of others on board. That incidentally would not at all be an issue to be worried about. ULFA supporters would come out of the wood-works then, including the entire business community, heh-heh. Even those who have sworn to leave Assam might reconsider. Would anyone dispute that? Question therefore is IF Assam ex-pats would join ULFA and/or others
Re: [Assam] FAIA, Editor-in-chief - Architectural Wonders of India
I believe the Mughals came through Central Asia so you
could find the references to Mughal architecture in
the cities of Central Asia as well - that is where
they came through before reaching India. So cities
such as Ashkhabad, Bukhara (?), Khiva etc. in
countries such as Uzbekistak, Turkmenistan,
Kazakhstan. The mughals did indeed pass through these
places. One link:
http://www.dragoman.com/destinations/single.php?tripCat=STTspecificTrip=extraInfo=1
--- Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The FAIA Editor-in-chief is no ordinary tourist. So
his words are important.
His tour of Indian architecture consisted of Mughal
architecture - as described by him. The organizers
of the architects' meet in India must have picked
these as the best examples of Indian architecture.
From a layman's point of view, with no formal
course in architecture, I have always felt that the
forts and mausoleums built by the Mughals are world
class. The question from me to those with knowledge
in architectural history is - where did the
inspiration for these designs come from? The places
where the Mughals immigrated from do not have much
evidence of such grand architecture. Iran has some,
but not to this scale. I'd welcome even a reference
to a website that will educate me.
Dilip
Architectural Wonders of India
December 30, 2004
Notes from Robert Ivy, FAIA, Editor-in-chief
My first sight of the Taj Mahal hit with superhuman
force, unburdening me of a lifetime's pent-up
emotions and expectations. Up until the moment when
we turned and caught a glimpse of it looming
inevitably, its outline traced against the mercurial
evening sky, a black cutout form poised against the
magenta night, or the blue sky offered up a domed
flyspeck, off across Agra. Jostling for space in my
mental landscape were the primary hues of postcards
or pages from the World Book, and the monochromatic
scenes from Richard Halliburton's pulp-wonderful
Book of Marvels, in which he sneaked a moonlit
reverie behind the locked garden walls: Childhood
still lurked just below the surface of this adult.
Then, there it was, a glistening sugarloaf of a
building, combining the presence of all colors, both
reflective and absorbing its own light---the
embodiment of white, white, white. So large it
dwarfed the arching portal leading to the gardens
far ahead; so large that human form merely peppered
its base.
From where I stood, it leaped and danced, from its
settled podium up to the solid mass of its body,
where arched niches carved shadowed recesses and
repeated its harmonies, then around in a domed sweep
to its tip. Anchored by four spires, one at each
corner, for muezzins who would never come,
punctuated by rooftop pavilions and smaller spires,
this mausoleum sang a cosmic song, suggesting order,
amplitude within bounds, and direction. It humbled
me, as great art can, with the realization that
geometry points toward truths that we have ignored,
and that beauty is a real and potent force, even in
this debased and imperfect world. It took my breath
away.
My trip to the Taj occurred on the final day of a
five-day whirlwind trip to the subcontinent, where
we had been guests of the Aga Khan Award for
Architecture, a triennial event. As with other such
gatherings to celebrate architecture in or for the
Islamic world, held in various sites worldwide, our
host had prepared visits to noteworthy architectural
monuments, including the Taj. In our case, the
awards proved to be a Mughal feast.
ADVERTISEMENT
OAS_AD('Middle');
The awards ceremony itself took place in Delhi at
another mausoleum (think how funerary structures
dominated early civilizations). Humayun's Tomb
(1569), erected by the ruler's widow Hamida Banu
Begam, predates Shah Jehan's memorial to his wife
Mumtaz Mahal by almost a century (1631-1648). For
the contemporary occasion, which included not only
the Aga Khan himself and his invitees, but the Prime
Minister of India, the domed, polychrome structure
had been illuminated for a private son et lumière.
The assemblage consisted of an international coterie
in full native finery, from saris woven with cloth
of gold to an African chief in robe and cap.
Counterpoised against this magnificent 16th century
backdrop, the moon rose full, while the Silk Road
ensemble coaxed their plaintive instruments. Not
even an emperor could match the rose-petal strewn
drama.
Subsequent travels included a ceremony at the
massive Mughal fortifications in Agra, whose Red
Fort (built by Akbar in 1565, added to by Shah Jehan
in 1630-55) gave new insight into the word, heft.
There the red sandstone walls, many feet thick, rose
with hieratic emphasis, once cradling the treasury
of an empire-Shah Jehan's wives, and the Peacock
throne, his seat of justice. As if to underscore the
otherworldliness of this lost hegemony,
Re: [Assam] Re: Economic Development
Actually Santanuda's points about there being no insurgencies in Bihar, UP, MP and Orissa is just about plain wrong. The Maoists active in Bihar, parts of MP, parts of Orissa and elsewhere are not exactly saluting the Indian constitution. Uttarkhand and Jharkand were created out of Bihar and UP precisely because economic opportunities were not created for people in that region. Other factors such as the absence of OBCs in Uttarkhand and the dominance of tribals in Jharkand were corollary factors that spun very closely around the fact that these groups primarily did not get to share in the economic opportunities. If someone told me that there was nothing about economic development about the Bodos desire for a Bodo Autonomous Council I would tell him he was smoking pot. Now that is separatism as well. The corollary of that is the case of the Tamils in Tamil Nadu. Tamil Nadu does not have a separatist movement - yet a hard separatist battle rages just across the seas where Tamils of that nation are involved. I could google and get some stats out of the Net - but I am sure the per capita thing works in Tamil Nadu's favor. And if you take Andhra Pradesh and did the per capita thing, you will find the per capita GDP of Hyderabad city would be much higher than the one in the Telengana region which has a statehood movement as well as a Naxal issue. As Ramda pointed out, no one is saying economic development or the lack of it is ALL that is there to separatism. It does however form a large part of the real substance of separatist movements anywhere. Assam is no exception. I am really hard-pressed to find a separatist movement in any part of the world where there is plenty for ALL the people in that region. For anyone to suggest that economic development is NOT a reason demonstrates how much out of it he or she is. Even as I make this statement I am concious that I am playing on words in exactly the same model as some of these votaries have done. In exactly the same model that Ramda has not suggested economic development is the ONLY reason, these guys have not suggested that economic development is NOT a reason. But then let's get off the high horse! --- ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da Yet another one of those statements assigned to me,but something I NEVER said. Because I always knew that it was NOT about economic development Nor have I. But I believe economics is at the root of the problem, and I did mention religion, identity etc as other factors. But here it is from an earlier post from you: Incidentally, one of the most glaring omissions or ignorances some of you demonstrated last week about Assam's alienations were your beliefs that it was all about economic development or lack of it. Shows how much you guys are out of it. First of all, I never said it was all about economic development. But I subscribe to idea that economic development (or lack there of) was a basis for insurgence in Assam. People is Assam (NE) were already feeling the disparities meted out by the Center (stepmotherly treatment), and it was a good basis to go on. Then add to this a dash of 'Assameseness' ,and a dash of 'identity' or what have you, and one one can draw up enough to form insurgent group. Why don't we see insurgent groups in any of the advanced countries? Do you believe, any any of them would want to break away from success? There were no selective choices here. Forget the US, where states have autonomy, what about Eurpoe or even Japan. Why has it not occurred in those countries? I attribute is to success the nations as whole have, and people would find no reason to break away. Now, Santanu has brought up some good points. It is true that Bihar and UP lag behind Assam (and also other NE states) in many economic indicators education. I attribute this to: (a) Bihar/UP are the hindi belt. There cronies are in Delhi. They get generous helping, and often from the center. (b) The NE states are very well educated. Education lets one know what disparities are around you. The Biharies or UP wallahs may not deem it necessary to kill the golden goose here - why would they ever think of breaking up. This is a great deal for them -why do anything else. I know why though. It is so much easier to deal with money, and we can always place the blame for having no money to laziness of the kharkhowas :-). Thats pretty intuitive! Where has anyone implied that? A tad bit touchy here, are we -:)? C'da, many of us have written about this. Most of have placed the blame if you will on a number of areas and 'parties'. What we always have said is this: You cannot blame the Center for everything, and absolve the other parties of any omission or wrongdoing. Again, please tell us what this insurgency is all about. If its not about economics as a backdrop, what is it? -- Ram --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Re: [Assam] Educational Institutions in India
Like, I said, yet some some more questions. But never the answer. It isn't too hard, C'Da, to see through the tactic. I am sure you have read South's history to a certain extent and will be able to compare that to that of NE's. I am sure you would have followed recent socio-economic trends from different regions of India. Unless it is too rusty because of the long years away in the US of A. Don't you think a comprehensive analysis of the NE's ills that evades mere mortals like me should also attempt to answer this specific question? And don't you think if a PhD is required to answer this question, a PhD is required to answer all those general questions raised on a daily basis here? As for general, broad questions or opinions - will you go check your voluminous comments about the evil empire called GOI over the last few months made by themselves or as responses to other general broad statements? Apply your yardstick for drawing simplistic conclusions (and the resultant demonstration of immaturity and /or ignorance). Assigning immaturity or ignorance as a stock response has been used very often as a tool whenever one is uncomfortable with a response in every day situations, at work, when debating with friends, when parents remonstrate their children etc. I do it too. On many ocassions, I pinch myself on the shoulder to stop myself from demonstrating stupidity. *** So here I am face to face with Rajib Das' ace question, his trump card! But before I can attempt to answer the question, I must know the following: *WHAT is it that the South is doing with the current system that the NE cannot? *I also need to know what the South consists of. * What are the Souths circumstances, compared to the NE's? * what is the South's history compared to the NE's? Tell us Rajib, and I will try to answer your questions. cm At 7:09 PM -0800 12/29/04, Rajib Das wrote: Like I said, I have not seen a direct response from you (or others in the board) to the simple question I have posed. I was hoping something will come out this time around. You still have an evasive response on this one, as usual in your artful way :-) I swore off a doctorate of any kind some time back! I have also learnt to be sceptical about self-proclaimed doctorates who participate in online boards on topics such as this. They almost always are as ignorant as I am. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was quite an answer Rajib. Have you considered publishing it as a dissertation on the NE's troubles and why India is not responsible for it? Maybe there is a doctorate for you in it :-). At 1:39 PM -0800 12/29/04, Rajib Das wrote: Here's my attempt at answering the questions: The South is better disciplined not just in Medical or engineering education, it is better disciplined overall. Incidentally, Manipal is not a government institution - it is private, developed by private initiative and that too by members of a community (the GSBs of Karnataka) that do not have too much political power in the state. The South took the stability in their communities, harnessed it for progress and took advantage of the opportunities that India has thrown up in the last decade and a half. They were doing it and progressing despite the disadvantages in the federal power structure. Their LOCAL politicians and rest of the LOCAL leadership were rising above the morass and doing constructive work. The north or the Hindi wallas were still wallowing in their feudal structure and the shibboleths of a few decades back. So despite the supposed imperialistic outlook of Hastinapur and despite the disadvantages of being in the wrong side of power structure, communities in the South have done well. The Indian system works for them. And despite the power structure being with the Hindi wallas, the Indian system does not work for them. What it means is that the Indian system works just fine. If it is made to work. It has been demonstrated in the last 15 years. Which begets the question that has been asked repeatedly and never answered: Why is it the South can do it with the current system and the north east has not been able to? For apologists of separatism I can understand why they would not want to answer the question. There would not be an evil empire to blame for all our ills. After 40 years of independence, a certain dynamism has pervaded India (or parts of it) - never mind some rants on this board about how India just needs a whiff of thin air to break apart and crumble. For 50 years before independence and a few decades thereafter, the dynamism was in the north primarily based around the fight
Re: [Assam] Educational Institutions in India
Here's my attempt at answering the questions: The South is better disciplined not just in Medical or engineering education, it is better disciplined overall. Incidentally, Manipal is not a government institution - it is private, developed by private initiative and that too by members of a community (the GSBs of Karnataka) that do not have too much political power in the state. The South took the stability in their communities, harnessed it for progress and took advantage of the opportunities that India has thrown up in the last decade and a half. They were doing it and progressing despite the disadvantages in the federal power structure. Their LOCAL politicians and rest of the LOCAL leadership were rising above the morass and doing constructive work. The north or the Hindi wallas were still wallowing in their feudal structure and the shibboleths of a few decades back. So despite the supposed imperialistic outlook of Hastinapur and despite the disadvantages of being in the wrong side of power structure, communities in the South have done well. The Indian system works for them. And despite the power structure being with the Hindi wallas, the Indian system does not work for them. What it means is that the Indian system works just fine. If it is made to work. It has been demonstrated in the last 15 years. Which begets the question that has been asked repeatedly and never answered: Why is it the South can do it with the current system and the north east has not been able to? For apologists of separatism I can understand why they would not want to answer the question. There would not be an evil empire to blame for all our ills. After 40 years of independence, a certain dynamism has pervaded India (or parts of it) - never mind some rants on this board about how India just needs a whiff of thin air to break apart and crumble. For 50 years before independence and a few decades thereafter, the dynamism was in the north primarily based around the fight for independence and the resultant euphoria amongst the masses. The south was disconnected. Which is why in the federal structure the north has had a stronger voice. Given that dynamism (and prosperity) in this day and age is centered around the South, the power structure will shift. We will probably see more PMs from the south. And if you go by what Chandrababu Naidu demanded when he was CM - he asked why Bihar should get federal funds (much of which came from states like his) when they continue to misuse it year after year after year - it portends a future where the South would seek and get its leadership role in the federal structure that it has earned or it would seek and get a change in the federal structure because they have proven they can do better with their own funds. Much of such changes in the federal polity will happen on a constructive agenda fueled by a public's demand for progress. Very little will come about with a destructive agenda. For every community involved, the interest is in keeping a single India - not because waves of in the air patriotism will rush over different parts - but because a single India makes sense of progress and stability in these changed times for all the involved people. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: Why the South seems to be better disciplined in educational institutions in India specially in Medicine? What is the secret? Sometime it looks like South India is more Mainlanland India. Why they donot revolt against the domination of the Hindi-wallas? Why they donot hate India like the North East? The South seem to be progressing completely ignoring or in spite of the Hindi belt North India. Or is the South gradually taking over the North? *** What would be your answers to the questions Rajen? Can you elaborate a little? c At 2:40 PM -0600 12/29/04, Barua25 wrote: Blue Thoughts: It seems some Indian educational institutions are doing great. Take for instance the welknown : Manipal Medical College. I came to know that they have now opened brnaches even in Nepal and Thailand and are attarcting lot of international students. Question: Why the South seems to be better disciplined in educational institutions in India specially in Medicine? What is the secret? Sometime it looks like South India is more Mainlanland India. Why they donot revolt against the domination of the Hindi-wallas? Why they donot hate India like the North East? The South seem to be progressing completely ignoring or in spite of the Hindi belt North India. Or is the South gradually taking over the North? RB ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Educational Institutions in India
Like I said, I have not seen a direct response from you (or others in the board) to the simple question I have posed. I was hoping something will come out this time around. You still have an evasive response on this one, as usual in your artful way :-) I swore off a doctorate of any kind some time back! I have also learnt to be sceptical about self-proclaimed doctorates who participate in online boards on topics such as this. They almost always are as ignorant as I am. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was quite an answer Rajib. Have you considered publishing it as a dissertation on the NE's troubles and why India is not responsible for it? Maybe there is a doctorate for you in it :-). At 1:39 PM -0800 12/29/04, Rajib Das wrote: Here's my attempt at answering the questions: The South is better disciplined not just in Medical or engineering education, it is better disciplined overall. Incidentally, Manipal is not a government institution - it is private, developed by private initiative and that too by members of a community (the GSBs of Karnataka) that do not have too much political power in the state. The South took the stability in their communities, harnessed it for progress and took advantage of the opportunities that India has thrown up in the last decade and a half. They were doing it and progressing despite the disadvantages in the federal power structure. Their LOCAL politicians and rest of the LOCAL leadership were rising above the morass and doing constructive work. The north or the Hindi wallas were still wallowing in their feudal structure and the shibboleths of a few decades back. So despite the supposed imperialistic outlook of Hastinapur and despite the disadvantages of being in the wrong side of power structure, communities in the South have done well. The Indian system works for them. And despite the power structure being with the Hindi wallas, the Indian system does not work for them. What it means is that the Indian system works just fine. If it is made to work. It has been demonstrated in the last 15 years. Which begets the question that has been asked repeatedly and never answered: Why is it the South can do it with the current system and the north east has not been able to? For apologists of separatism I can understand why they would not want to answer the question. There would not be an evil empire to blame for all our ills. After 40 years of independence, a certain dynamism has pervaded India (or parts of it) - never mind some rants on this board about how India just needs a whiff of thin air to break apart and crumble. For 50 years before independence and a few decades thereafter, the dynamism was in the north primarily based around the fight for independence and the resultant euphoria amongst the masses. The south was disconnected. Which is why in the federal structure the north has had a stronger voice. Given that dynamism (and prosperity) in this day and age is centered around the South, the power structure will shift. We will probably see more PMs from the south. And if you go by what Chandrababu Naidu demanded when he was CM - he asked why Bihar should get federal funds (much of which came from states like his) when they continue to misuse it year after year after year - it portends a future where the South would seek and get its leadership role in the federal structure that it has earned or it would seek and get a change in the federal structure because they have proven they can do better with their own funds. Much of such changes in the federal polity will happen on a constructive agenda fueled by a public's demand for progress. Very little will come about with a destructive agenda. For every community involved, the interest is in keeping a single India - not because waves of in the air patriotism will rush over different parts - but because a single India makes sense of progress and stability in these changed times for all the involved people. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: Why the South seems to be better disciplined in educational institutions in India specially in Medicine? What is the secret? Sometime it looks like South India is more Mainlanland India. Why they donot revolt against the domination of the Hindi-wallas? Why they donot hate India like the North East? The South seem to be progressing completely ignoring or in spite of the Hindi belt North India. Or is the South gradually taking over the North? *** What would be your answers to the questions Rajen? Can you elaborate a little? c At 2:40 PM -0600 12/29/04, Barua25 wrote: Blue Thoughts: It seems some Indian educational institutions are doing great. Take for instance the welknown : Manipal Medical College. I
Re: [Assam] 'Oxom-Xena'
Isn't the Assam Sena a rip off of the obviously original one - Shiv Sena of Bal Thackeray? I don't know where the emulation will begin from - but in its essence it is a fire and brimstone Hindu chauvinist party (and earlier, beating up of the madrasis in Mumbai). The 2 constant factors in the party was/is to use street power to hit at opponents of various hues and the party president for life with absolute powers for life. The other thing was the constant over the ground extortion business that the Shiv Sena indulged in. AASU and Shiv Sena have had similarilities in the recent past - the latest one being the beating up of Bihari job seekers in Railways. I wonder what the liberals on this board would say about such an idealogy, if indeed Assam Sena has such an idealogy. I also wonder whether some of them would be ok with such an idealogy in Assam when they are on the right side of the spectrum. Finally it is a bit ironic - the original Sena (Aka the Shiv Sena) is somewhat on geriatric row what with Bal Thackeray being old and ill and their street thugs being outnumbered by others in Mumbai because the city has moved on. Rajib --- J Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am glad that an Assam Army is being formed. Although the name has the word Army in it, it is essentially a peaceful movement trying to protect the interests of Assam and the inhabitants of Assam. The interests of Assam and the inhabitants of Assam are in many ways in odds with the interests of India and the inhabitants of India, and in fifty five years of independence from the British, India has not been able to figure out a formula to balance the two. So, we need some home grown movement to do so. I would urge the Assam Army (Oxom Xenaa) not work by emphasizing strikes, bandhs, etc., but possibly study successful movements for independence such as that of India, Israel, East Timor and other nations. In particular, although, I am completely opposed to the policies of the current and past Israeli governments, it behooves us to see what they did to obtain independence. A part of that strategy was to make the desert bloom through efforts such as 1) kibbutzes where groups of individuals worked on farms and small-scale farming based industries, 2) gathering money and resources and buying off tracts of land and other properties, etc. In Assam, the Oxom Xenaa could work on similar constructive projects with long-term goals in mind. It is wise to talk about Assam, The Assam Nation, The Nation of Assam, etc., instead of talking about The Assamese, The Assamese Nation, etc. The former encompasses everyone in Assam whereas the latter encompasses the people whose mother tongue is Assamese. Jugal Kalita On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 01:11 AM, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: From The Assam Tribune: http://www.assamtribune.com/dec2004/at01.html From Oxomiya Pratidin: http://www.pratidinassam.com/dec2004/ap01.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] 'Oxom-Xena'
Dear Mr. Chetia, All I pointed out was that the AASU was instrumental in beating up Bihari candidates (from Assamese newspaper reports). And so was the Shiv Sena. That was the similarity. For the record, I support the view that jobs in the lower level for federal organizations should go to local candidates. I, however, doubt very much if a Shiv Sena like approach to things ever helps. Rajib --- Prasenjit Chetia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. Das; What AASU did with the jobseekers was a debated issue and if you see all the underlying truth it was a counter attack to a big conspiracy which the big bosses of railways did for their kins of bihar. Biharis were called all over india for interviews, does it happen the same way in bihar, no it is not. I was doing a project of UTS implemented under the whims and fancies of Nitish Kumar, the then railways minister who competed Ram Vilas Paswan. They had setup railway division HQs is danapur and patna with huge investments which are only 2hrs apart in distance. These favortism goes on and it is a long story. The beating up issue is only a pitfall. I don't think , anybody could have stopped the guys from bihar to appear in guwahati where the boys from assam or entire NE seeking the same were not called for appearing the exam with no reason to explain. I think if you have to save your existence, you have to be a little bit of jatiatabadi. All others have that, otherwise you will have to leave your identity and forget what you were. Prasenjit On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:50:09 -0800 (PST), Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't the Assam Sena a rip off of the obviously original one - Shiv Sena of Bal Thackeray? I don't know where the emulation will begin from - but in its essence it is a fire and brimstone Hindu chauvinist party (and earlier, beating up of the madrasis in Mumbai). The 2 constant factors in the party was/is to use street power to hit at opponents of various hues and the party president for life with absolute powers for life. The other thing was the constant over the ground extortion business that the Shiv Sena indulged in. AASU and Shiv Sena have had similarilities in the recent past - the latest one being the beating up of Bihari job seekers in Railways. I wonder what the liberals on this board would say about such an idealogy, if indeed Assam Sena has such an idealogy. I also wonder whether some of them would be ok with such an idealogy in Assam when they are on the right side of the spectrum. Finally it is a bit ironic - the original Sena (Aka the Shiv Sena) is somewhat on geriatric row what with Bal Thackeray being old and ill and their street thugs being outnumbered by others in Mumbai because the city has moved on. Rajib --- J Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am glad that an Assam Army is being formed. Although the name has the word Army in it, it is essentially a peaceful movement trying to protect the interests of Assam and the inhabitants of Assam. The interests of Assam and the inhabitants of Assam are in many ways in odds with the interests of India and the inhabitants of India, and in fifty five years of independence from the British, India has not been able to figure out a formula to balance the two. So, we need some home grown movement to do so. I would urge the Assam Army (Oxom Xenaa) not work by emphasizing strikes, bandhs, etc., but possibly study successful movements for independence such as that of India, Israel, East Timor and other nations. In particular, although, I am completely opposed to the policies of the current and past Israeli governments, it behooves us to see what they did to obtain independence. A part of that strategy was to make the desert bloom through efforts such as 1) kibbutzes where groups of individuals worked on farms and small-scale farming based industries, 2) gathering money and resources and buying off tracts of land and other properties, etc. In Assam, the Oxom Xenaa could work on similar constructive projects with long-term goals in mind. It is wise to talk about Assam, The Assam Nation, The Nation of Assam, etc., instead of talking about The Assamese, The Assamese Nation, etc. The former encompasses everyone in Assam whereas the latter encompasses the people whose mother tongue is Assamese. Jugal Kalita On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 01:11 AM, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: From The Assam Tribune: http://www.assamtribune.com/dec2004/at01.html From Oxomiya Pratidin: http://www.pratidinassam.com/dec2004/ap01.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Assam] 'Oxom-Xena'
Trust you to bring your spin to the table somehow :-) But it all boils down to one thing: There is no sense of one nation. Each different entity is out to protect its own turf, in whatever way it is possible. Compound the problem with an absence of a functioning state machinery that can resolve such issues fairly and timely. My experience is that there is indeed a sense of one nation amongst vast sections of people cutting across regions and communities. In an earlier generation when opportunities were few, people protected their turfs resulting in continually diminishing returns. Groups that have identified opportunities have moved forward with openness and have benefited - guess how many Assamese young boys and girls would be there in Bangalore?. The others that have continued to use methods of the past languish. In certain parts the state machinery functions relatively better, I must say. Therein lies the living-in-denial of the pan-Indianist middle class who have it made. They have little to be concerned about and thus can talk of bigger things, like getting respect from the world as a power of some sort, if not a super one, even if it means doing so on the backs of the insecure who they never hesitate to deride so. My experience of the pan-Indianist middle class - and I am one of them - is different. The best reflection of popular, middle class opinion would be the new Shah Rukh Khan movie Swades where the view point is that a whole lot needs to be done to yet earn the respect of the world. We are in a big mess. But getting out of this mess does not need revolutions. All it needs is for us to apply what we have better. And there is more than ample proof of that working. You might want to see the movie. It is a tad slow, though. At 6:10 PM -0800 12/20/04, Rajib Das wrote: Dear Mr. Chetia, All I pointed out was that the AASU was instrumental in beating up Bihari candidates (from Assamese newspaper reports). And so was the Shiv Sena. That was the similarity. For the record, I support the view that jobs in the lower level for federal organizations should go to local candidates. I, however, doubt very much if a Shiv Sena like approach to things ever helps. Rajib --- Prasenjit Chetia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. Das; What AASU did with the jobseekers was a debated issue and if you see all the underlying truth it was a counter attack to a big conspiracy which the big bosses of railways did for their kins of bihar. Biharis were called all over india for interviews, does it happen the same way in bihar, no it is not. I was doing a project of UTS implemented under the whims and fancies of Nitish Kumar, the then railways minister who competed Ram Vilas Paswan. They had setup railway division HQs is danapur and patna with huge investments which are only 2hrs apart in distance. These favortism goes on and it is a long story. The beating up issue is only a pitfall. I don't think , anybody could have stopped the guys from bihar to appear in guwahati where the boys from assam or entire NE seeking the same were not called for appearing the exam with no reason to explain. I think if you have to save your existence, you have to be a little bit of jatiatabadi. All others have that, otherwise you will have to leave your identity and forget what you were. Prasenjit On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:50:09 -0800 (PST), Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't the Assam Sena a rip off of the obviously original one - Shiv Sena of Bal Thackeray? I don't know where the emulation will begin from - but in its essence it is a fire and brimstone Hindu chauvinist party (and earlier, beating up of the madrasis in Mumbai). The 2 constant factors in the party was/is to use street power to hit at opponents of various hues and the party president for life with absolute powers for life. The other thing was the constant over the ground extortion business that the Shiv Sena indulged in. AASU and Shiv Sena have had similarilities in the recent past - the latest one being the beating up of Bihari job seekers in Railways. I wonder what the liberals on this board would say about such an idealogy, if indeed Assam Sena has such an idealogy. I also wonder whether some of them would be ok with such an idealogy in Assam when they are on the right side of the spectrum. Finally it is a bit ironic - the original Sena (Aka the Shiv Sena) is somewhat on geriatric row what with Bal Thackeray being old and ill and their street thugs being outnumbered by others in Mumbai because the city has moved on. Rajib --- J Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am glad that an Assam Army is being
Re: [Assam] Indian press belittles Dr. Indira Goswami's mission on Assam.
Unfortunately Rajib, what you are attempting to portray is not what I said. There is no attempting of portrayal. Just taking your spin and giving it a opposite swing. *** Liberators would not have emerged if those who were entrusted with governance had been doing their job. True. They wouldn't have hung around as a nagging nuisance for 25 years without much accomplishment if they had done their job right either. And liberators would not have lasted as long as they have, had those entrusted with governance been able to show that they got the message, and done something about it. That those entrusted with governance haven't got the message I agree with completely. Which message is where we diverge. *** Indian Express was telling Indira Goswami --back off lady. You don't know what you are doing. We do. And we are telling the govt. to get back to suppress the ULFA with a bigger force. You, ought to go back to writing novels. You are a detractor to the military solution. Or it is saying - here is Dr. Indira Goswami proclaiming these guys want talks. And the next thing they do is go and bomb out a few civilians and a few oil pipelines. Something does not connect. That is a demonstration of incurable learning disability on the part of the Indian Express. And it would be so for those who agree with the Indian Express' editorial. Or it is just a demonstration of different point of view. They opine that the ULFA does not want talks at all. And all this talk about talks from their side is balderdash. In any case, I don't quite agree with the Indian Express editorial. My interest was your rant (it is my favorite word in Assamnet now) about the accountability bit. I wanted to see how you would measure up the accountability section of ULFA. Sure enough you have skirted it by a mile. *** And it is a world apart from your desperate and spinning out of control wishes Rajib :-). Mine? Or is it yours Chandanda? Look around. __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] Continuing Success Story in Assam
http://www.assamlive.com/news4.htm ASTC continues to be a success story under Anjan Dutta. Perhaps one of the very few! This time when I was in India, I dropped off my brother at the ASTC bus station near Guwahati station. I was impressed with the general hum of the place, some futuristic looking buses and the bright lights of shops doing brisk business. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Indian press belittles Dr. Indira Goswami's mission on Assam.
I am in complete agreement with Chandanda's comments. We have a dumb government that goes with policies that have not yielded results. Ditto goes for the polity's tolerance of ULFA and such like groupings. Years of them wrecking irreparable havoc on the populace at large and the economic infrastructure of the state, looting and extortion of common masses, capital fleeing or not coming to the states, killing of civilians - and yet some amongst us would rather hand over power to them in a platter. Liberation armies need to be accountable too - and the ULFA's book of accounts is so messed up, the board of directors should summarily close down the company. Liberation armies (and governments in waiting) need to be transparent as well. Are they? And I am not just talking of the monies. In net essence, the Indian Express is saying just that! What we have is a piquant situation - a dumb government and a dumb liberator! What we do not have is a choice. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear BB: Indian press belittles Dr. Indira Goswami's mission on Assam. *** I am not sure that is what it means. What it really means is that a large segment of the Indian intelligentsia, including us NRAs and NRIs, are unable to learn from their mistakes and experiences. The Indian govt. is a glaring example, having demonstrated time and again since independence, that sticking to ways that produce proven bad results, over and over again, would somehow ultimately bring the results of their desire. *** Part of this inability and unwillingness to dig out of the rut they mire themselves into, is the absence is feedback of the polity. Another reason is the complete absence of transparency in governance. It is true even in the private sector business that a number of our neo-conservative friends like to tout as the poster boys of a reformed India. Some examples: If the Indian polity had any awareness of what it has cost India to wage war in Kashmir and in Assam and the NE for as long as it has, without any solution in sight, and what that cost the nation in terms of development and progress; in a more mature nations there would have been revolutions. If the lives that were lost in these wars came from the families of the decision -makers in government and from the intellectual class that pass judgement on these issues, can you imagine it would have continued for as long? Everyone complains about the scourge of the huge black sector of the economy that is the hall-mark of the Indian private sector. If the polity had an idea how it is running society down an ever descending spiral, do you think it could continue? And if the polity really did care, could the ruling class remain as apathetic of it, claiming, --what can we do? If accountability and responsibility of those in authority meant anything, do you think this could happen? Can the Indian Express spout such garbage while the intelligentsia remains a mute spectator, clueless? But what do you expect, when even our best and brightest cannot see what are black and white issues and paint them all in shades of murky grey---terming it everybody's fault, and thus there is no escape, not now, not ever? Sanjib Baruah once asked here in Assam Net, that would be appropriate to ask again: If you are a top business executive--a CEO of a publicly held top flight corporation, who is held accountable for performance by its shareholders, would you continue to pursue failed policies decade after decade? Obviously you would not. You would change course. Seek answers that could bring desired results. But look at Indian governance. And India's gift to journalistic excellence--the Indian Express, preaching what it is preaching. cm At 7:02 AM + 12/16/04, Bartta Bistar wrote: Assams curse http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=60896http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=60896 [Assam has once again witnessed a spate of bomb attacks designed to remind the authorities that a year after the Bhutan operations to bust ULFA bases on its territory, the terrorist outfit is alive and thriving. The blasts should, indeed, come as a reminder to New Delhi a reminder of the nature of the beast it confronts in Assams hinterland. The UPA government has proved far too soft in its approach to the ULFA. Its attempts to be sensitive to militant groups wishing to make peace has been read as a sign of weakness and the sooner New Delhi disabuses the ULFA of this perception, the better. Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs recent offer of unconditional talks elicited the
Re: [Assam] Re:Shillong leads the race...
There is no use having IITs and IIMs in our midst if our boys and girls are not going to seriously attempt getting into them through open entrance exams. For whatever reasons, in our times, the battle used to be lost even before it has begun. Guys would focus on the State Joint Entrance exam assuming they would never get through IIT JEE. I am hoping the situation is a bit different now. I wish a fraction of the concerted efforts that we have on debating sovereignity would be spent on a more mundane, less grandiose objective of making sure a 100 boys and girls in the NE get through into IIT Guwahati on the basis of free, open competition. --- priyankoo sarma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a good idea to have the IIM at Shillong. I have been to CIEFL and NEHU in Shillong and I think they are really better maintained than any educational institution in Assam. It also helps in knocking down the geographical boundaries within the NE. It is interesting to observe that recently the band FIREHOUSE's concerts were organised at Shillong, Dimapur and Aizawl and not in Guwahati! ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] Secessionist in America.
As also the ground swell of popular determination in Iraq. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be going anywhere. The American media treats them as terrorists. And the American bombs flatten Falluja. That is one of the American wars of independence in today's age. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kamal: Just because a government may not ALLOW discussion of secession, if there is a ground swell of popular determination, even if it is brutally suppressed, it could not be killed off. Remember the American a war of independence? At 6:29 PM -0800 12/14/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline Those NRIs or Bhabhabhas (read, Bharat se bhage huwe Bharatiya), who echo the belief that the GOI should grant it's citizen the freedom to talk about secession freely, should try prattling about the same in America, the so-called free-est democracy in the world. One can rest assured.the US govt will have FBI trail him or her for the rest of their life. KJD. ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
