Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Am 29. Mai 2015 um 08:52 schrieb Stephan Wolff s.wo...@web.de: Da die Übergänge zwischen den Wasserflächen von Flüssen, Kanälen und Seen (im doppelten Wortsinn) fließend sind, finde ich das neue Schema logisch und praktikabel. verstehe ich nicht. Es ist doch egal ob man water=river oder waterway=riverbank taggt, wo der Fluss aufhört und der See anfängt muss man so oder so entscheiden. Das neue Schema ist mehr als ein Jahr alt, viele Flüsse sind schon so erfasst. Wenn du die Änderung erst jetzt entdeckst, ist die Zerstörung offenbar nicht bedeutend. Welche Anwendung ist überhaupt betroffen? waterway=riverbank komplett rausnehmen aus dem Fluss-Artikel finde ich auch nicht gerade hilfreich, grenzt in der Form für mich an Vandalismus, immerhin gibt es nach wie vor 283K Objekte, die diesen Tag haben, water=river sind gerade mal 10.700 vorhanden (nach wie Du selbst schreibst, über einem Jahr). Prinzipiell ist es mir egal, ob man waterway=riverbank oder water=river verwendet, evtl. macht letzteres auch mehr Sinn, es ist aber nicht das, was derzeit überwiegend gemacht wird und sich in der db findet. Gruß, Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
Si, vedo Mancuno giovedì mattina! Immagino non ci siano problemi per la collaborazione del Comune. Appena incassata quello organizziamo un hangout. Il giorno 29 maggio 2015 10:14, Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com ha scritto: La settimana prossima vado a parlare con il Comune, per presentare l'iniziativa e parlare di eventuale patrocinio. Just for info: il vice-sindaco di Siena mi ha contattato di recente proprio sul tema. Lui sta lavorando su Siena Città Intelligente e quindi il tutto è di interesse. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- *Michele Mondelli* ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Zitat von Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.de: und der Umstieg von waterway=riverbank auf natural=water + water=river wird dies verstärken, denn das water=river wird dann oft - weil scheinbar unnötig - weggelassen. Insgesamt eine schlechte Entwicklung. Ich würde deshalb grundsätzlich empfehlen, im Allgemeinen bei der Verwendung von waterway=riverbank für Flüsse zu bleiben und bei der Verwendung von natural=water *immer* ein water=* zu taggen. und dafür gibt es QA Tools wie Osmose und Co. ... wobei ich damit auch gerade [1] am verzweifeln bin, weil ich nicht weiss wie ich/man (Bach-) Zuflüsse zu (Stau-) Seen taggt. [1]: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=505876#p505876 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
I don’t think that it’s a good idea to rely on a external database. (inconsistency, overhead for map producers/developers, different toolchains, etc.) If the name:xx is just a simple transliteration you won’t need Wikidata, you can use algorithms for producing a map in the foreign language. If the foreign name differs from the transliteration I think no one would oppose to add the name into the OSM database. -- It isn’t necessary to add Wikidata tags for naming purposes. Am 28.05.2015 um 23:27 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: Please handle the questions of should FOO-language name of an object be allowed in the database ? and should that databse be OSM or Wikidata ? separately. The decision of whether Абергавенни should be recorded as the Russian name for Abergavenny should be the same for Wikidata and OSM. +1 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
2015-05-28 23:00 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 28 May 2015 at 09:50, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: e.g. the en:Spanish Steps / de:Spanische Treppe are called Scalinata di Trinità dei Monti in the local language (it is located at piazza di Spagna, that's where the foreign name comes from, while in Italian it is called after to church it leads to). Naturally, OSM has the original name of this world famous monument, but Wikidata hasn't. It does now. OK, this is one point for you, but it also proves my point: wikidata at the moment is not sufficiently mature (IMHO) to replace name tags in different languages in OSM. Of course you can fix wikidata issues (if you understand how it is done, I haven't had enough time yet to understand how to make edits like this, and the fact that not all tags are shown to me (e.g. only 4 out of all language labels, after I have explicitly clicked on in more languages)) doesn't help. // sidenote: Now I could link the wikidata object of the spanish steps to the OSM object and get an Italian name. But I will not have an Italian wikipedia article about it, because it is covered in the spanish square (piazza di spagna) article in Italian. How would I ideally procede now? a) in wikidata link the article of the piazza di spagna (in italian) to the wikidata object about the spanish steps? a2) like a) but link to an anchor: Piazza_di_Spagna#La_scalinata ? b) in wikipedia split the italian wikipedia article in 2, one for the square and one for the steps? c) in osm add an additional tag like wikipedia:it=Piazza_di_Spagna#La_scalinata to the steps object? d) something different... //sidenote off If we were to massively use wikidata _instead of duplicating some details from there also in our db_ we would have to improve wikidata as well, You'd be welcome to do so. ... and impose our entity structure on them, Really? Good luck with that. what I meant, and what you do confirm below: if for instance there is an object in wikidata which is an administrative entity and a geographic place at the same time, but for OSM we'd need 2 distinct objects, we will have to split the wikidata object. This could be done only if there wasn't resistance from other wikidata users who might want to keep the current unmodified object because it links better to wikipedia articles. We might introduce another object that linked the split objects onto one, which could serve for wikipedia articles, etc. but this is a much more complicated procedure than changing tags in OSM alone. We've always said that we wanted editing to be simple, so that we can maximize the amount of available editors, but with the tight integration of another dynamic dataset (for one of the core competences we are dealing with: toponyms) or it won't work in some cases (and if it doesn't work in some case, it doesn't work at all). That is, of course, nonsense. OK, let's say it is nonesense, because you can accept that a solution works for most of the cases and try work around those that don't work. Currently (all names in OSM) we don't have these problems though. Another issue I see with wikidata is that it contains information and details about spatial objects, but it doesn't contain the geometry it refers to. The geometry is in OSM, is it not? Why would Wikidata want to replicate that? IMHO you have to understand to which geometry you are referring when you make edits, or you might break stuff without noticing it. Wikidata editors would have to look at OSM geometries to ensure that their edit maintains consistency, and OSM users would have to check wikidata to see if editing something in a certain way (e.g. merges or splits, adding tags, changing geometry) is OK or whether they have to split the wikidata object and update the wikidata link. It is not impossible, but it is an enormous amount of complexity added, and it also augments the risk of non-availability of the backend by 100% (because now we depend on 2 services and not on one). I want to point out is that there seem to be different criteria defined for different languages: These descriptions aid users; they are not proscriptive. There are also local and cultural variations. Just like city in OSM. Maybe these are descriptions to aid in some regional wiki projects and proscriptive rules in others like Germany, where rules rule? Just like in OSM ;-) It would rather confuse than aid me if the descriptions in some language says something is foo and in another language they tell me it is not foo. TL;DR; wikidata is a gorgeous project, combining their knowledge with ours is very promising. Still, in my opinion, for the current state of where they are (and where the tools to combine both are), I would _not remove tags_ from OSM just because the same information might be available in wikidata. Cheers, Martin ___ talk
Re: [Talk-at] disput um wohnprojekt
Hallo nochmal. Jetzt steht da landuse temporary die anderen Tags wurden gelöscht, gibt gar kein rendering mehr, ist das Absicht? Ich glaub schon! http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/340080115#map=16/48.2287/16.5228 Irgendwo war noch eine Diskussion zum Objekt bei den Notes, aber ich finde die grad nicht mehr. Ich möcht selbst jedenfalls keine Änderung an dem Objekt vornehmen, weil mich der Edit-War frustriert. lg, mayly. On Fri, May 22, 2015 8:40 am, Norbert Wenzel wrote: On 05/22/2015 07:50 AM, Michael Maier wrote: ich bin auf jeden Fall für Wiederherstellung des Objektes¹, denn es besteht über längere Zeit und trägt nützliche Information. Jup, wiederherstellen. Der Diskussion schlussfolgernd ist wohl ein ?tourism=caravan_site? etwas umstritten, da nicht für Kurzzeitaufenthalte gedacht. Was haltet ihr vom Hinzufügen von ?access=private? zusätzlich zu ?tourism=caravan_site?, um das auszudrücken? Die deutschen Wagenplätze die von Py Mayly verlinkt wurden haben gar kein caravan_site und ich könnte damit leben. On 05/21/2015 12:08 AM, Py Mayly wrote: ich hab jetzt bei ein paar wagenplätzen in deutschland nachgeschaut, und es scheint so üblich zu sein wie hier: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69767579 Man könnte natürlich irgendeine Art Beschreibung an die residential area dranhängen oder type=caravan_site oder so. Aber tourism=* ist es ja definitiv nicht (auch nicht mit access=private, was wohl irgendwie auch für die meisten kommerziellen Campingplätze ohnehin gilt) und der imo einzige Grund tourism=caravan_site zu verwenden ist das Rendering des Zeltsymbols auf der Standardkarte. Und das ist für mich kein Argument. Wenn niemand was dagegensagt, werd ich heut Abend das Objekt wiederherstellen, vorerst mal ohne den ?tourism=? Tag, dafür mit dem in DE wohl üblichen ?landuse=residential?, ?place=mobile_home?. Das würd ich so, ohne tourism=*, unterstützen, ja. Norbert ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at -- ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2015-05-27
These are based off of Lambertus's work here: http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel free to ask. However, please do not send me private mail. The odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit. Downloads: http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-05-27 Map to visualize what each file contains: http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-05-27/kml/kml.html FAQ Why did you do this? I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact of doing a large join on Lambertus's server. I've also cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently on removable media. http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-05-27 Can or should I seed the torrents? Yes!! If you use the .torrent files, please seed. That web server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this side of the Atlantic. Why is my map missing small rectangular areas? There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the red rectangles), I don't see any at the moment, so you may want to update if you had issues with the last set. Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card? If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from the factory. I had to reformat it to let me create a 2GB file. Does your map cover Mexico/Canada? Yes!! I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario in to the USA. Some areas of North America that are close to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps. This might not happen forever, and if you would like your non-US area to get included, let me know. -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[OSM-talk-fr] tag et point-virgule
Bonjour, J'ai remarqué qu'Osmose n'appréciait pas que les valeurs soient séparées par des point-virgules. Or, des pages wiki le proposent Qu'en est-il? Il est mentionné dans la FAQ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:FAQ Valeur avec ou sans point-virgule? Merci de votre réponse Bernard --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
La settimana prossima vado a parlare con il Comune, per presentare l'iniziativa e parlare di eventuale patrocinio. Just for info: il vice-sindaco di Siena mi ha contattato di recente proprio sul tema. Lui sta lavorando su Siena Città Intelligente e quindi il tutto è di interesse. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
On Friday 29 May 2015, Stephan Wolff wrote: Das würde ein weltweites Tagging-Schema zerstören... Da die Übergänge zwischen den Wasserflächen von Flüssen, Kanälen und Seen (im doppelten Wortsinn) fließend sind, finde ich das neue Schema logisch und praktikabel. Das ist genau der Knackpunkt - es mag wie in vielen anderen Bereichen auch Grenzfälle geben. In der überwiegenden Zahl der Fälle ist die Unterscheidung jedoch vor Ort eindeutig möglich und für die meisten Datennutzungen die über einfache Karten nach dem Schema 'alles Blau malen' hinaus gehen ist diese Unterscheidung sehr wichtig und sollte deshalb idealerweise bereits im primären Tag erfolgen. Dies ist bei waterway=riverbank für stehend/fließend der Fall, nicht jedoch für natürlich/künstlich (waterway=riverbank wird traditionell auch für Kanäle verwendet). natural=water + water=* erlaubt generell auch das undifferenzierte Tagging von Wasserflächen, was auch in über 90 Prozent der Fälle so gemacht wird - siehe http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=water#combinations und der Umstieg von waterway=riverbank auf natural=water + water=river wird dies verstärken, denn das water=river wird dann oft - weil scheinbar unnötig - weggelassen. Insgesamt eine schlechte Entwicklung. Dass waterway=riverbank unschön ist, weil es eigentlich ein Linien-Tag aus der vor-Multipolygon-Zeit ist und weil es - siehe oben - keine Unterscheidung Fluss-Kanal ermöglicht steht außer Frage. Im Proposal zur Änderung wird das Thema Unterscheidung fließende/stehende Gewässer jedoch leider nicht thematisiert. Ich würde deshalb grundsätzlich empfehlen, im Allgemeinen bei der Verwendung von waterway=riverbank für Flüsse zu bleiben und bei der Verwendung von natural=water *immer* ein water=* zu taggen. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-tr] openstreetmap.org.tr
Açılmışmıydı ki org.tr To: talk-tr@openstreetmap.org Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 21:52:55 +0300 From: em...@katpatuka.org Subject: [Talk-tr] openstreetmap.org.tr merhabalar, openstreetmap.org.tr çıkmıyor artık... Fakat domain adı 2019-05-30 kadar geçerli... ___ Talk-tr mailing list Talk-tr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tr ___ Talk-tr mailing list Talk-tr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tr
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
2015-05-29 10:43 GMT+02:00 Michele Mondelli mithenks...@gmail.com: Si, vedo Mancuno giovedì mattina! occhio che si chiama MancuSo :) Immagino non ci siano problemi per la collaborazione del Comune. Quello no, quello che invece reput[iam]o importante è la formula che deve prima di tutto venire incontro alla comunità. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
2015-05-29 10:47 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com: 2015-05-29 10:43 GMT+02:00 Michele Mondelli mithenks...@gmail.com: Si, vedo Mancuno giovedì mattina! occhio che si chiama MancuSo :) Immagino non ci siano problemi per la collaborazione del Comune. Quello no, quello che invece reput[iam]o importante è la formula che deve prima di tutto venire incontro alla comunità. reputiamo chi? ho sentito diverse persone parlare di questo argomento finora ma solo uno si è preso l'onere e l'onore di organizzare l'evento. Lasciamogli carta bianca come è sempre stato fatto finora e poi quello che sarà sarà -- ciao Luca http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/ www.lucadelu.org ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
On 29/05/2015 09:16, David Woolley wrote: There are ways of reversing changes exactly, but they are difficult to use if there have been ad hoc attempts to repair in the mean time, as you have to reverse those repairs first and you need to distinguish them from legitimate changes that happened to overlap. Indeed, but in this case it's long enough (6 weeks, ish) ago that a revert probably isn't going to be practical. Also, based on changeset comments, the addition of the coastline ways arround the Llyn to the national park boundary appears deliberate, so it's probably worth trying to discuss the changes with that mapper via a changeset discussion (who probably doesn't read this list). Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
rispondo qui, ma è un commento ad un po' tutte le risposte fatte dagli altri. A mio avviso l'obiettivo di queste conferenze dovrebbe essere prima di tutto far conoscere il progetto e poi realizzare un qualcosa per far fare esperienza e creare affiatamento nella community...per community già ben sviluppate poi altre fasi potrebbero essere dedicate ad attività didattica/divulgativa avanzata. Per OSM al momento attuale, se non c'è in ballo un particolare coinvolgimento degli enti pubblici, l'incontro viene seguito da un numero ridotto di persone (si è toccato al max 90 persone mi sembra di aver capito) e quasi sempre con già la consapevolezza di cosa sia osm e di come contribuire. A mio modo di vedere invece sarebbe più utile (ma per uno come me e molti di noi meno interessante essendo già coinvolti in osm) cercare di diffondere la consapevolezza dell'esistenza di osm tra le altre community. Non dico per quest'anno ma per i prossimi, secondo me l'obiettivo non dovrebbe essere fare una conferenza su osm ma parlare di osm nelle conferenze di altri progetti. OSM sta diventando sempre più rilevante per molti progetti ed è nella conferenza delle community di queste che secondo me possiamo trarre il maggior risultato essendo spesso un contributo ad osm un contributo anche al successo di questi progetti. Prendiamo Linux: OSM è praticamente la mappa di default usata in un po' tutti i progetti; Marble in KDE, MAPPA in Gnome, il nuovo navigatore su Ubuntu Touch. a sua volta tutto il sistema osm è basato su server con su linux (credo ubuntu). I linux day poi coinvolgono spesso argomenti sul FOSS e li la nostra mappa ha permesso lo sviluppo di importantissimi strumenti tutti open e tutti in continuo sviluppo Prendiamo wikimedia: OSM è una delle mappe usate su wikipedia; osm stesso è un capitolo italiano di wikimedia (è coretto? )e c'è una forte collaborazione tra i due. e chissà quante altre cose che non so o non conosco. Ci sono sicuramente molte altre community che potrebbero essere interessate allo sviluppo della nostra mappa anche in ambito commerciale/industriale (la mappa usata per la propria attività o per darle visibilità), o nella pubblica amministrazione (la mappa come altra forma di divulgazione di open-data e per l'e-gov)... L'eventuale conferenza OSM poi servirebbe ad approfondire il tema ma a mio avviso dovrebbe venire prima pubblicizzata nelle altre community. in definitiva sono favorevolissimo all'OSMIT ma a mio avviso si dovrebbe fare di più per pubblicizzarlo nelle altre community dopo avergli presentato osm e mostrato come la nostra mappa venga usata e sia utile ai loro progetti. il problema è che da noi è quasi tutto a livello locale...sono rare le conferenze centrali dove la pubblicizzazione di osm e osmit avrebbe la massima efficacia. - Ciao, Aury -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSMIT-2015-tp5842998p5846415.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015 07:07, Andrew Hain wrote: Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a long way away. Hang on, where is _anybody_ saying that? The whole point of the thread is about whether it would be possible to use wikidata to make the map _more_ useful to people who don't speak a particular language, not less. As I said yesterday: It's a perfectly reasonable request for someone to ask can I have a map that shows place names displayed in my language / alphabet. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Snowdonia National Park Boundary
On 29/05/15 00:46, Colin Smale wrote: Thanks to the people who pointed me at helpful tools. I have fixed it up as best as I can for the moment - obviously erroneous stretches of coastline have been removed, missing segments have been added where a bridge has been inserted, that kind of thing. Geometrically it looks OK, and it seems very roughly to correspond to the illustrative map on Wikipedia. There are ways of reversing changes exactly, but they are difficult to use if there have been ad hoc attempts to repair in the mean time, as you have to reverse those repairs first and you need to distinguish them from legitimate changes that happened to overlap. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Dave Corley davecorley at gmail.com writes: Lastly, and I think this is important point. To quote the wiki header . the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the world. Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries, people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted on a universal basis or its not. Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a long way away. -- Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Am 29.05.2015 um 06:25 schrieb Markus: Habe hier eine merkwürdige Änderung entdeckt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:waterway=riverdiff=nextoldid=1176333 Das würde ein weltweites Tagging-Schema zerstören... Da die Übergänge zwischen den Wasserflächen von Flüssen, Kanälen und Seen (im doppelten Wortsinn) fließend sind, finde ich das neue Schema logisch und praktikabel. Das neue Schema ist mehr als ein Jahr alt, viele Flüsse sind schon so erfasst. Wenn du die Änderung erst jetzt entdeckst, ist die Zerstörung offenbar nicht bedeutend. Welche Anwendung ist überhaupt betroffen? Gruß Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015 12:51, Maarten Deen wrote: It depends on what you want. When someone asks me to navigate to Natanzon, Haifa how can I enter it when the only name in the map is נתנזון, חיפה? I don't see why the transliterated name is not important. No-one is saying that the transliterated name is not useful for all sorts of reasons (the thread title can wikidata links help... makes it clear that this is about trying to make it easier to get to these names, not harder). The question here is, in a case when a name:xx isn't widely used in the place and doesn't appear on signs*, how can a user of the data know that they've got there or not? OSM shouldn't be it's own parallel universe - we map what's on the ground. Cheers, Andy * I have absolutely no idea what signage is around Haifa - if a name:en for a place does appear on signs and is useful to use to see if you have got there then clearly there needs to be some indicator that says that name:en is useful here, but (say) name:cy is not. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: It depends on what you want. When someone asks me to navigate to Natanzon, Haifa how can I enter it when the only name in the map is נתנזון, חיפה? Your software should know about both names (so that you can search for either) and show you the local name (so that you can compare to streetsigns) in addition to the name in a language of your choosing (so that you know what you're doing). And yes, I see the combination of name and a long list of name:CC as a good backend for that requirement. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-at] Public Transport Schema und Wien
Hallo zusammen,Ich habe vor ein paar Tagen in Wien die Buslinien so angepasst, dass sie richtig auf der Thunderforest Transport Map richtig gerendert werden, und mit der Overpass-api.de gut angezeigt wird. Das Problem ist, dass es dann nicht mehr mit dem public_transport:v2 Schema zusammenpasst. Meiner Meinung nach ist dieses Schema auch nicht ganz ausgereift. Denn grad bei Busstationen entspricht eine Stop position eigentlich gar nichts, während eine Busstation gleichzeitig der Platform entspricht. Somit ist das mappen einer stop_position und einer Plattform NODE eigentlich überflüssig... Entweder plattform als Linie und eine stop position, oder nur eine Plattform, so wäre es logisch. Wie vorgeschrieben ist es nur zusätzlich kompliziert :( . Aber was meint ihr? Mit freundlichen GrüßenRobin Däneke ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015 12:14, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: On 29/05/2015, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: how do we distinguish in the Abergavenny case between the two established names and the up to 7,000 (but realistically in the short term a few hundred) translations? That's unfortunately something that name:xx in OSM doesn't give us currently You don't distinguish them, and that's fine. There may be many many more pleople using Abergavenny than Абергавенни, but that doesn't mean that the name isn't established, at its more limited scale. I'd say that whether or not a name is actually usable to help navigate to a place is a pretty important piece of information. For example, when processing OSM data for my own use I'll try and drop unsigned names and refs from roads (there's no point in saying turn left on Foo Street if Foo Street does not appear on the sign). It's the same principle here - if there are 300 names for a place, are you really suggesting that I have to do an external check to some other database to find that as it's in South Wales, signs are likely to be in Welsh and English, so it's those language names that I need to look out for? Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: I'd say that whether or not a name is actually usable to help navigate to a place is a pretty important piece of information. True. And that what name should give you. The name:CC tags should not be a hindrance, at most they should be given alongside name by your satnav. For example, when processing OSM data for my own use I'll try and drop unsigned names and refs from roads (there's no point in saying turn left on Foo Street if Foo Street does not appear on the sign). That's really neat. How do you know wether a street is signposted or not ? I don't know of any tag that gives that info. I can't imagine a good heuristic using name:CC. I've added quite a few unsignposted street names by asking locals. It's the same principle here - if there are 300 names for a place, are you really suggesting that I have to do an external check to some other database to find that as it's in South Wales, signs are likely to be in Welsh and English, so it's those language names that I need to look out for? What's wrong with name ? What's the UK policy on the content of name for places with Welsh and English names ? If you want to see Welsh names as often as possible but still make the local name more prominent, use local name (welsh name if different) in your map generating script. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-se] Utskrifter av svenska kartan
Det där lät intressant. Kan du berätta lite mer om vad du beräknar, och hur? Jag har mitt kart-projekt något vilande just nu dessvärre, så har inte detaljer direkt i huvudet. Kan återkomma när det kommer igång! Men i princip att räkna antal objekt i en viss klass (till exempel amenity, shop, eller sammanlagd längd för highway) inom en vissa radie, vilket ger en lokal density-parameter. Experimentar hur breda kategorier det ska vara och vilka radie - eller vilka (som så ofta i geografi är saker olika på olika skalor). /Per Eric -- ^): Per Eric Rosén http://rosnix.net/~per/ / p...@rosnix.net GPG 7A7A BD68 ADC0 01E1 F560 79FD 33D1 1EC3 1EBB 7311___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, p...@trigpoint.me.uk p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Fri May 29 11:27:41 2015 GMT+0100, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: Even if it was justified, the reversals were either sloppy or biased : see http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10021976/history which got name:ru Лестер deleted but was allowed to keep name:ukЛестер. The Ukrainian names were added after the mapper engaged the UK community. If that's the case, it means the reversal was biased rather than sloppy, which is arguably worse. name:ru was first added 4 years ago, name:uk 1 year ago. The more recent changesets that re-added name:ru got a changeset discussion where the contributor explained his verification process, which isn't much but is probably as good as can be in this case. Лестер is the same message from Ukraine and from Russia, but in the second case the messenger was shot. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 2015-05-29 13:34, SomeoneElse wrote: On 29/05/2015 12:14, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: On 29/05/2015, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: how do we distinguish in the Abergavenny case between the two established names and the up to 7,000 (but realistically in the short term a few hundred) translations? That's unfortunately something that name:xx in OSM doesn't give us currently You don't distinguish them, and that's fine. There may be many many more pleople using Abergavenny than Абергавенни, but that doesn't mean that the name isn't established, at its more limited scale. I'd say that whether or not a name is actually usable to help navigate to a place is a pretty important piece of information. For example, when processing OSM data for my own use I'll try and drop unsigned names and refs from roads (there's no point in saying turn left on Foo Street if Foo Street does not appear on the sign). It depends on what you want. When someone asks me to navigate to Natanzon, Haifa how can I enter it when the only name in the map is נתנזון, חיפה? I don't see why the transliterated name is not important. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
I'd say that whether or not a name is actually usable to help navigate to a place is a pretty important piece of information. For example, when processing OSM data for my own use I'll try and drop unsigned names and refs from roads (there's no point in saying turn left on Foo Street if Foo Street does not appear on the sign). It depends on what you want. When someone asks me to navigate to Natanzon, Haifa how can I enter it when the only name in the map is נתנזון, חיפה? I don't see why the transliterated name is not important. while the transliterated / translated name might be useless for the actual navigation, it is important for entering the address. Seems like you are both addressing a different part of the task. I assume a Brit wants to enter Antwerp, Belgium and not Antwerpen, België. Although once they are driving in Belgium they will get navigational hints as follow the motorway towards Antwerpen (or maybe even towards Anvers when that is on a sign in France). similar for the Foo Street. When I want to drive to the Foo Street, I want to be able to enter it, whether is is signed or not. I'm probably fine that the driving instructions leave out the name when I get to my destination. regards m. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-be] For OSM copyright enforcers: strangest map yet
Hi It reminds me somehow of this service: http://afstandmeten.nl/ They have a similar multi-background map, but they got the attribution right. Do we have a template for copyright letters? If we haven't, perhaps now's the time to make them. So far, I've written two copyright emails[1] (in Dutch). Groeten Ruben [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:M!dgard/Copyrightbrieven 2015-05-28 21:25 GMT+02:00 André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: Hi, I stumbled on this map. They've got the Google Pegman, markers, zoom bar and logo. They've got a Google Terms of Use. But, gulp, the map is OSM (what I've just mapped, looked like an echo ;-) ) In fact, the map is multi-background. There seems to be a cookie to remember your preference. And the default preference was OSM as I got it from Google Search. But yet... Cheers André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On Fri, 2015-05-29 at 13:14 +0200, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: And as it happens, Абергавенни comes from Abergavenny rather than Y Fenni, showing that some discernment was applied. Not sure I understand that statement, transliterating Y Fenni is equally valid in my view. Phil (trigpoint) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Wallonie picarde à vélo / ODBL compatible ?
Merci André, mais pas d’affolement : j’ai reçu d’IDETA des signes encourageants, ils ne sont pas totalement fermé à l’idée de libérer leurs données. Simplement, ça va à la vitesse de l’administration. Wait and see. Matthieu On 29 May 2015, at 11:53, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: On 2015-05-26 23:13, Matthieu Gaillet wrote : I'm currently busy mapping a huge cycling network in Wallonie Picarde http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4128428. ... — Ma question est la suivante : J’ai immédiatement demandé et obtenu l’autorisation d’intégrer les données du réseau sous license ODBL. Au fil de quelques correspondances avec l’administration wallonne, la personne qui m’avait officiellement donné accord pour intégrer les données m’a soudainement demandé de signer une convention pour pouvoir obtenir le dernier fichier correspondant aux données les plus à jour du réseau. Voici le texte de la convention (attachée ci-dessous) : ... • Le logo de l’IDETA (ou à défaut la mention « source : ©IDETA ») devra figurer sur toute sortie cartographique exploitant les données, de manière explicite et lisible. Il en va de même pour les partenaires de l’IDETA qui sont à l’origine des données (cf. tableau de détail). Les conditions d’utilisations spécifiques aux fournisseurs sont mentionnées en annexe. Toute utilisation de ces données devra faire l’objet d’une demande écrite préalable à l’IDETA qui le cas échéant la transmettra au(x) propriétaire(s). Dans le cas de diffusion externe, un exemplaire de chaque document utilisant ces données sera adressé, au format papier ou numérique, à l’IDETA ... A votre avis, cette convention est-elle compatible avec la license ODBL ? Suis-je habilité à la signer ? Dans le cas contraire, quelle est la meilleure stratégie à observer ? Salut, Je crois que, comme dans la plupart des conditions d'utilisation cartographiques, cette convention est à 1000 lieues d'imaginer qu'on puisse, je schématise, faire autre chose que de photocopier des cartes papier. Vouloir mettre sur une carte OSM (un dessin) un © pour toutes les sources des données qu'elle contient serait évidemment de la folie (1). Les © (2) doivent en fait se trouver à côté des balades dans le tag source=* et ne sont visibles que dans le panneau gauche de OSM.org http://osm.org/ ou équivalent quand le lecteur a l'idée saugrenue de l'ouvrir. Sauf que Polyglot dit que c'est dans dans les changesets que doivent se trouver ces informations et qu'il y a encore moins de chances que l'utilisateur ouvre l'history que le panneau de gauche, surtout quand Polyglot utilise l'history pour communiquer ses états d'âme. Je vois mal des services comme Waymarged Trails montrer l'history des balades dans les changesets. Sauf que les contributeurs OSM ne cessent de répéter qu'il n'y a pas de carte et que OSM est un model of decoupling the factual mapping database from the data consumers and their choices. Marc Gemis expliquera en effet que l'utilisateur peut tout aussi bien ouvrir openstreetmap.de http://openstreetmap.de/ et qu'il n'y verra pas de panneau gauche du tout. Et tout cela est bien vrai pour les routes cyclistes, pédestres, etc. car, à part le calque Cycle Map dans lequel je ne parviens pas à voir des tags source, la meilleure manière de les voir est d'utiliser Waymarked Trails http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.22969lon=5.3472hill=0#routes dans lequel on voit (cliquer sur Route et puis sur une route) que Polyglot n'a mis aucun © du tout. Bref, OSM n'est pas une carte sur laquelle, comme le conçoit IDETA, on écrit un ©, mais des données que vont utiliser d'autres personnes (les consumers) pour (éventuellement) faire des cartes ou des produits montrant ou devant montrer l'attribution des sources. Et donc, si ce que IDETA impose est que ce © se trouve sur des cartes, c'est à ces dernières autres personnes que IDETA doit faire signer une convention, par exemple à Waymarked Trails http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.22969lon=5.3472hill=0#routes. OSM n'agit en effet que comme un distributeur des données (de IDETA), comme un grossiste, et lui faire signer une convention serait aussi bizarre que de demander à un grossiste de signer un accord promettant que les appareils vendus ne seront pas démontés. Je crois donc que la meilleure tactique est: comme il me semble être peine perdue de vouloir leur faire comprendre tous les détails qui précèdent, d'expliquer que OSM intègre pas mal de données semblables à celles de IDETA sans préjudice pour leurs auteurs et même plutôt à leur bénéfice et qu'il serait dommage que leurs données ne bénéficient pas du même traitement (améliorer, édulcorer au mieux cette formulation sentimentale) de leur expliquer de manière subtile que le texte de leurs conditions ne correspond pas au fonctionnement de OSM et qu'il est plus
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Single handedly deleting hundreds of name:ru on nodes without an alternative in place instantly made map less useful. Upphafleg skilaboð Frá: SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk Dagsetning: 29/05/2015 07:53 (GMT+00:00) Til: talk@openstreetmap.org Efni: Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation? On 29/05/2015 07:07, Andrew Hain wrote: Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a long way away. Hang on, where is _anybody_ saying that? The whole point of the thread is about whether it would be possible to use wikidata to make the map _more_ useful to people who don't speak a particular language, not less. As I said yesterday: It's a perfectly reasonable request for someone to ask can I have a map that shows place names displayed in my language / alphabet. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29 May 2015 at 09:58, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-05-28 23:00 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 28 May 2015 at 09:50, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: e.g. the en:Spanish Steps / de:Spanische Treppe are called Scalinata di Trinità dei Monti in the local language (it is located at piazza di Spagna, that's where the foreign name comes from, while in Italian it is called after to church it leads to). Naturally, OSM has the original name of this world famous monument, but Wikidata hasn't. It does now. OK, this is one point for you, but it also proves my point: wikidata at the moment is not sufficiently mature (IMHO) to replace name tags in different languages in OSM. It proves nothing of the kind, Does OSM still have work needing to be done? Is OSM not sufficiently mature to replace other mapping services? Of course you can fix wikidata issues (if you understand how it is done, I haven't had enough time yet to understand how to make edits like this, How long does it take a new mapper to understand how to make such edits in OSM? and the fact that not all tags are shown to me Try logging in and enabling the Labels list gadget; or alternatively https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1?withJS=MediaWiki:Gadget-labelLister.js for the Q value of your choice (I did say I would provide an update about this in an earlier post) (e.g. only 4 out of all language labels, after I have explicitly clicked on in more languages)) doesn't help. Did you use the configure link alongside that? Now I could link the wikidata object of the spanish steps to the OSM object and get an Italian name. But I will not have an Italian wikipedia article about it, because it is covered in the spanish square (piazza di spagna) article in Italian. How would I ideally procede now? There is no Italian Wikipedia article about the steps. So what? and impose our entity structure on them, Really? Good luck with that. what I meant, and what you do confirm below: if for instance there is an object in wikidata which is an administrative entity and a geographic place at the same time, but for OSM we'd need 2 distinct objects, we will have to split the wikidata object. This could be done only if there wasn't resistance from other wikidata users who might want to keep the current unmodified object because it links better to wikipedia articles. There would be no such resistance. We might introduce another object that linked the split objects onto one, which could serve for wikipedia articles, etc. but this is a much more complicated procedure than changing tags in OSM alone. It's trivially easy. You just said atht you haven't yet learned to do so, that is all. or it won't work in some cases (and if it doesn't work in some case, it doesn't work at all). That is, of course, nonsense. OK, let's say it is nonesense, because you can accept that a solution works for most of the cases and try work around those that don't work. Currently (all names in OSM) we don't have these problems though. We have another set of problems: Disagreement over when to include names; insufficient volunteer-hours, etc. IMHO you have to understand to which geometry you are referring when you make edits, or you might break stuff without noticing it. Wikidata editors would have to look at OSM geometries to ensure that their edit maintains consistency, Why would they? I say that claim is bogus. and OSM users would have to check wikidata to see if editing something in a certain way (e.g. merges or splits, adding tags, changing geometry) is OK or whether they have to split the wikidata object and update the wikidata link. It is not impossible, but it is an enormous amount of complexity added, For those who wish to do so, this is not onerous. and it also augments the risk of non-availability of the backend by 100% (because now we depend on 2 services and not on one). Not if, as others have suggested, data is cached. In any case, WIkdiata's relaibality, like other WMF projets, is commendably high. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29 May 2015 at 09:57, Arch Arch 7h3.a...@gmail.com wrote: If the foreign name differs from the transliteration I think no one would oppose to add the name into the OSM database. Then you haven't been paying attention to this thread. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
W dniu 29.05.2015 11:45, Arch Arch napisał(a): I don't think that's a good idea to try to solve the problems we're faced with by our current OSM data model by setting up a second database. We need an improved data model which fits our needs. Current OSM data model is not flexible enough for expanding for the rest of the world, and even for many not typical items in the currently mapped parts of the world. If we will still try to put categories into the tagging, we won't be able to recategorize it later for example, because there's a strong backlash against mechanical edits of multiple objects. IMO we need to let the mappers tag the ground truth and take the meta informations away, so we can process them and their relations easier (amenity or shop is so wide, and currently there's no way to make subcategories if needed). And note, that this second database (OSMdata) will be just OSM Wiki on steroids - and that is better, because quite popular opinion is that it's not manageable anymore. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015 10:42, Nick Whitelegg wrote: You don't even need on the ground evidence. You just need someone ... or something ... with knowledge of Cyrillic and Roman alphabets to be able to transliterate Abergavenny into the Cyrillic, presumably. Absolutely. But leaving aside whether that's created on the fly (perhaps from a stored IPA pronunciation, though initial attempts to do that haven't proved successful*) or stored (either in OSM or wikidata or elsewhere) how do we distinguish in the Abergavenny case between the two established names and the up to 7,000 (but realistically in the short term a few hundred) translations? That's unfortunately something that name:xx in OSM doesn't give us currently, though from reading Andy Mabbett's links it's something that wikidata would. A question to those suggesting Абергавенни as a name:ru for Abergavenny / Y Fenni - how to distinguish the latter (both are names that you can to compare with signposts to see that you're going in the right direction) with the former (which you can't, but a speaker of that language might use to refer to that place in their own language)? Cheers, Andy * https://metacpan.org/pod/Text::TransMetaphone::ru , which Komяpa tried last night. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On Fri, 2015-05-29 at 13:58 +0200, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: What's wrong with name ? What's the UK policy on the content of name for places with Welsh and English names ? If you want to see Welsh names as often as possible but still make the local name more prominent, use local name (welsh name if different) in your map generating script. By UK I assume you mean the UK (GB) OSM community? The UK government has no policy, such decisions are made by the Welsh Government. My interpretation of the rule as to which goes in name is whichever comes first on the signpost. The general rule is in welsh speaking areas, welsh will come first, english first in english speaking areas. Usual way to tell is if Araf or Slow comes first on the road markings. Not sure which Abergavenny is, but didn't hear much Welsh last time I was on a late night train through there. Phil (trigpoint) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
On Friday 29 May 2015, Harald Hartmann wrote: und dafür gibt es QA Tools wie Osmose und Co. ... wobei ich damit auch gerade [1] am verzweifeln bin, weil ich nicht weiss wie ich/man (Bach-) Zuflüsse zu (Stau-) Seen taggt. Waterways können/sollen in Seen durchgezeichnet werden, zum Beispiel wie hier. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.8464/10.4557 Ob man bei der Staumauer das dann beim Überlauf oder beim Kraftwerk einzeichnet oder bei beidem darüber kann man sicher streiten. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
2015-05-29 11:10 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com: ho scritto reput[iam]o e non reputiamo proprio per dire che reputo ma so che non sono il solo a pensarla così. ma allora queste persone potrebbero organizzare l'evento? ;-) Il timore è che finisca che ci sia bassa partecipazione. perchè se invece facciamo qualcosa solo per la comunità (che tra l'altro non credo esista in italia, intesa come comunità, pernso che nel nostro paese ci siano per lo più singoli che contribuiscono a OSM) credete che verranno più persone di quelle che sono venute gli anni precedenti (a parte Matera che sembra aver avuto un numero molto basso di partecipazione) ? Io più che dal tipo di evento penso che la partecipazione delle persone sia data dal fatto che: - si scelga una data lontana da altri eventi simili - la data venga scelta con un sondaggio su un range di date proposte dall'organizzatore/i - l'evento non venga organizzato nell'ultimo mese prima la conferenza - che l'evento venga pubblicizzato bene sul maggior numero di canali con un certo margine temporale e ricordato a più riprese. comunque sia, credo che difficilmente avremo mai più di 100 partecipanti, pensando che SOTM eu arriverà a circa 300 persone (non ho trovato nessun numero, ma dalla foto di gruppo direi che il numero dovrebbe essere più o meno questo) penso che 100 sia già un ottimo numero -- ciao Luca http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/ www.lucadelu.org ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Exactly. Us Western Europeans would find Romanised versions of names useful when travelling out of Western Europe (to give a real example: I'm visiting Greece this summer, and while I'm just about at the stage where I think I can decode the Greek alphabet, Romanised versions are definitely helpful), and the converse should also be true. You don't even need on the ground evidence. You just need someone with knowledge of Cyrillic and Roman alphabets to be able to transliterate Abergavenny into the Cyrillic, presumably. Nick From: Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk Sent: 29 May 2015 07:07 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation? Dave Corley davecorley at gmail.com writes: Lastly, and I think this is important point. To quote the wiki header . the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the world. Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries, people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted on a universal basis or its not. Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a long way away. -- Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
We need our own OSMdata instance in between to describe real world objects and concepts. And maybe we could even solve the ridiculous amount of duplication we're experiencing at the moment. True, the editor software will have to be adapted to cope with merges and splits, so the human editor can decide what OSM object(s) belong to what real world object(s). Either that or we should start using relations more intelligently. But they are heavyweight and supposedly they are also complicated. Polyglot 2015-05-29 10:58 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-05-28 23:00 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 28 May 2015 at 09:50, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: e.g. the en:Spanish Steps / de:Spanische Treppe are called Scalinata di Trinità dei Monti in the local language (it is located at piazza di Spagna, that's where the foreign name comes from, while in Italian it is called after to church it leads to). Naturally, OSM has the original name of this world famous monument, but Wikidata hasn't. It does now. OK, this is one point for you, but it also proves my point: wikidata at the moment is not sufficiently mature (IMHO) to replace name tags in different languages in OSM. Of course you can fix wikidata issues (if you understand how it is done, I haven't had enough time yet to understand how to make edits like this, and the fact that not all tags are shown to me (e.g. only 4 out of all language labels, after I have explicitly clicked on in more languages)) doesn't help. // sidenote: Now I could link the wikidata object of the spanish steps to the OSM object and get an Italian name. But I will not have an Italian wikipedia article about it, because it is covered in the spanish square (piazza di spagna) article in Italian. How would I ideally procede now? a) in wikidata link the article of the piazza di spagna (in italian) to the wikidata object about the spanish steps? a2) like a) but link to an anchor: Piazza_di_Spagna#La_scalinata ? b) in wikipedia split the italian wikipedia article in 2, one for the square and one for the steps? c) in osm add an additional tag like wikipedia:it=Piazza_di_Spagna#La_scalinata to the steps object? d) something different... //sidenote off If we were to massively use wikidata _instead of duplicating some details from there also in our db_ we would have to improve wikidata as well, You'd be welcome to do so. ... and impose our entity structure on them, Really? Good luck with that. what I meant, and what you do confirm below: if for instance there is an object in wikidata which is an administrative entity and a geographic place at the same time, but for OSM we'd need 2 distinct objects, we will have to split the wikidata object. This could be done only if there wasn't resistance from other wikidata users who might want to keep the current unmodified object because it links better to wikipedia articles. We might introduce another object that linked the split objects onto one, which could serve for wikipedia articles, etc. but this is a much more complicated procedure than changing tags in OSM alone. We've always said that we wanted editing to be simple, so that we can maximize the amount of available editors, but with the tight integration of another dynamic dataset (for one of the core competences we are dealing with: toponyms) or it won't work in some cases (and if it doesn't work in some case, it doesn't work at all). That is, of course, nonsense. OK, let's say it is nonesense, because you can accept that a solution works for most of the cases and try work around those that don't work. Currently (all names in OSM) we don't have these problems though. Another issue I see with wikidata is that it contains information and details about spatial objects, but it doesn't contain the geometry it refers to. The geometry is in OSM, is it not? Why would Wikidata want to replicate that? IMHO you have to understand to which geometry you are referring when you make edits, or you might break stuff without noticing it. Wikidata editors would have to look at OSM geometries to ensure that their edit maintains consistency, and OSM users would have to check wikidata to see if editing something in a certain way (e.g. merges or splits, adding tags, changing geometry) is OK or whether they have to split the wikidata object and update the wikidata link. It is not impossible, but it is an enormous amount of complexity added, and it also augments the risk of non-availability of the backend by 100% (because now we depend on 2 services and not on one). I want to point out is that there seem to be different criteria defined for different languages: These descriptions aid users; they are not proscriptive. There are also local and cultural variations. Just like city in OSM. Maybe these are descriptions to aid in
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Hi, Christoph Hormann schrieb: Ich würde deshalb grundsätzlich empfehlen, im Allgemeinen bei der Verwendung von waterway=riverbank für Flüsse zu bleiben und bei der Verwendung von natural=water *immer* ein water=* zu taggen. sehe ich auch so, mache ich auch so. Ich mach das aber noch aus einem anderen Grund, auch wenn das jetzt sprachlich gesehen wohl Quatsch ist: Bei natural=water habe ich das Bedürfnis, nur das zu mappen was mit Wasser bedeckt ist. Bei riverbank abstrahiere ich etwas mehr und betrachte das als Flussbett. Vor allem beim Mappen von Luftbildern hab ich ja nur einen Zeitpunkt bei dem vielleicht grad Hochwasser ist oder eine Trockenzeit. Gruß, Peda ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 29/05/2015 07:07, Andrew Hain wrote: Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a long way away. Hang on, where is _anybody_ saying that? The whole point of the thread is about whether it would be possible to use wikidata to make the map _more_ useful to people who don't speak a particular language, not less. The thread opening was indeed about using wikidata translations (which would make the map more usefull for all) and perhaps deprecating name:CC in OSM as a result (which is much more debatable). But then the question came up (By Richard I think ?) of which name:CC should be kept for a particular object, and the large number of name:ru in the UK (reverted by you and others) was given as an example of an unaccepable name:CC. And then some agreed that name:en in non-English-speaking coutries should get the same treatment. This second paragraph can be seen as making the map less useful (I share that POV). It has been argued that the reverts were justified because the names were just transliterations and not real names, but I think that this was overzealous (it wasn't blind tranliteration, there was human skill involved). Even if it was justified, the reversals were either sloppy or biased : see http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10021976/history which got name:ruЛестер deleted but was allowed to keep name:ukЛестер. And just to be clear: pushing the decision of whether Лестер is the correct russian name of Leicester to wikidata just so that OSM looks cleaner is not a solution. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 2015-05-29 12:05, SomeoneElse wrote: A question to those suggesting Абергавенни as a name:ru for Abergavenny / Y Fenni - how to distinguish the latter (both are names that you can to compare with signposts to see that you're going in the right direction) with the former (which you can't, but a speaker of that language might use to refer to that place in their own language)? IMHO the name tag should reflect what's on the ground. The Belgians do this for names in the capital Brussels: name=Bruxelles - Brussel for the name of the city or name=Rue de la Montagne - Bergstraat for a streetname. The same way, if Abergavenny is referred to on street signs as Abergavenny / Y Fenni, its name should be Abergavenny / Y Fenni. name is the official (local) name, name:ru is the name when you want to make a map in russian and can be used in Nominatim to search for a place. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: how do we distinguish in the Abergavenny case between the two established names and the up to 7,000 (but realistically in the short term a few hundred) translations? That's unfortunately something that name:xx in OSM doesn't give us currently You don't distinguish them, and that's fine. There may be many many more pleople using Abergavenny than Абергавенни, but that doesn't mean that the name isn't established, at its more limited scale. Speaking of plain dumb transliterations that got established, have a read of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_names_in_Ireland . Despite sharing the latin alphabet, all Irish placenames have been systematically translated when Ireland was under British rule. The transliteration job has been ridiculed by the locals and is no better than what a modern algorythm would do, but for better or worse today I live in Kilkenny more than I live in Cill Cainnigh. A question to those suggesting Абергавенни as a name:ru for Abergavenny / Y Fenni - how to distinguish the latter (both are names that you can to compare with signposts to see that you're going in the right direction) with the former (which you can't, but a speaker of that language might use to refer to that place in their own language)? Where the signpost toward Pékin (the french name for Beijing) ? Where on UK soil can I find the city sign for Londres ? Foreign names for local places *are* harder to verify, and we rightfully cast a more critical eye on them. But we've got plenty of hard-to-verify data in OSM, and we rarely take a deletionist approach to it. And for better or worse, Russia-based contributors are better suited to know what should go into name:ru than UK-based contributors. And as it happens, Абергавенни comes from Abergavenny rather than Y Fenni, showing that some discernment was applied. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
I don't think that's a good idea to try to solve the problems we're faced with by our current OSM data model by setting up a second database. We need an improved data model which fits our needs. Am 29.05.2015 um 11:28 schrieb Jo: We need our own OSMdata instance in between to describe real world objects and concepts. And maybe we could even solve the ridiculous amount of duplication we're experiencing at the moment. True, the editor software will have to be adapted to cope with merges and splits, so the human editor can decide what OSM object(s) belong to what real world object(s). Either that or we should start using relations more intelligently. But they are heavyweight and supposedly they are also complicated. Polyglot 2015-05-29 10:58 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-05-28 23:00 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 28 May 2015 at 09:50, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: e.g. the en:Spanish Steps / de:Spanische Treppe are called Scalinata di Trinità dei Monti in the local language (it is located at piazza di Spagna, that's where the foreign name comes from, while in Italian it is called after to church it leads to). Naturally, OSM has the original name of this world famous monument, but Wikidata hasn't. It does now. OK, this is one point for you, but it also proves my point: wikidata at the moment is not sufficiently mature (IMHO) to replace name tags in different languages in OSM. Of course you can fix wikidata issues (if you understand how it is done, I haven't had enough time yet to understand how to make edits like this, and the fact that not all tags are shown to me (e.g. only 4 out of all language labels, after I have explicitly clicked on in more languages)) doesn't help. // sidenote: Now I could link the wikidata object of the spanish steps to the OSM object and get an Italian name. But I will not have an Italian wikipedia article about it, because it is covered in the spanish square (piazza di spagna) article in Italian. How would I ideally procede now? a) in wikidata link the article of the piazza di spagna (in italian) to the wikidata object about the spanish steps? a2) like a) but link to an anchor: Piazza_di_Spagna#La_scalinata ? b) in wikipedia split the italian wikipedia article in 2, one for the square and one for the steps? c) in osm add an additional tag like wikipedia:it=Piazza_di_Spagna#La_scalinata to the steps object? d) something different... //sidenote off If we were to massively use wikidata _instead of duplicating some details from there also in our db_ we would have to improve wikidata as well, You'd be welcome to do so. ... and impose our entity structure on them, Really? Good luck with that. what I meant, and what you do confirm below: if for instance there is an object in wikidata which is an administrative entity and a geographic place at the same time, but for OSM we'd need 2 distinct objects, we will have to split the wikidata object. This could be done only if there wasn't resistance from other wikidata users who might want to keep the current unmodified object because it links better to wikipedia articles. We might introduce another object that linked the split objects onto one, which could serve for wikipedia articles, etc. but this is a much more complicated procedure than changing tags in OSM alone. We've always said that we wanted editing to be simple, so that we can maximize the amount of available editors, but with the tight integration of another dynamic dataset (for one of the core competences we are dealing with: toponyms) or it won't work in some cases (and if it doesn't work in some case, it doesn't work at all). That is, of course, nonsense. OK, let's say it is nonesense, because you can accept that a solution works for most of the cases and try work around those that don't work. Currently (all names in OSM) we don't have these problems though. Another issue I see with wikidata is that it contains information and details about spatial objects, but it doesn't contain the geometry it refers to. The geometry is in OSM, is it not? Why would Wikidata want to replicate that? IMHO you have to understand to which geometry you are referring when you make edits, or you might break stuff without noticing it. Wikidata editors would have to look at OSM geometries to ensure that their edit maintains consistency, and OSM users would have to
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Wallonie picarde à vélo / ODBL compatible ?
On 2015-05-26 23:13, Matthieu Gaillet wrote : I'm currently busy mapping a huge cycling network in Wallonie Picarde http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4128428. ... — Ma question est la suivante : J’ai immédiatement demandé et obtenu l’autorisation d’intégrer les données du réseau sous license ODBL. Au fil de quelques correspondances avec l’administration wallonne, la personne qui m’avait officiellement donné accord pour intégrer les données m’a soudainement demandé *de signer une convention* pour pouvoir obtenir le dernier fichier correspondant aux données les plus à jour du réseau. Voici le texte de la convention (attachée ci-dessous) : ... • Le logo de l’IDETA (ou à défaut la mention « source : ©IDETA ») devra figurer sur toute sortie cartographique exploitant les données, de manière explicite et lisible. Il en va de même pour les partenaires de l’IDETA qui sont à l’origine des données (cf. tableau de détail). Les conditions d’utilisations spécifiques aux fournisseurs sont mentionnées en annexe. Toute utilisation de ces données devra faire l’objet d’une demande écrite préalable à l’IDETA qui le cas échéant la transmettra au(x) propriétaire(s). Dans le cas de diffusion externe, un exemplaire de chaque document utilisant ces données sera adressé, au format papier ou numérique, à l’IDETA ... A votre avis, cette convention est-elle compatible avec la license ODBL ? Suis-je habilité à la signer ? Dans le cas contraire, quelle est la meilleure stratégie à observer ? Salut, Je crois que, comme dans la plupart des conditions d'utilisation cartographiques, cette convention est à 1000 lieues d'imaginer qu'on puisse, je schématise, faire autre chose que de photocopier des cartes papier. Vouloir mettre sur une carte OSM (un dessin) un © pour toutes les sources des données qu'elle contient serait évidemment de la folie (1). Les © (2) doivent en fait se trouver à côté des balades dans le tag source=* et ne sont visibles que dans le panneau gauche de OSM.org ou équivalent quand le lecteur a l'idée saugrenue de l'ouvrir. Sauf que Polyglot dit que c'est dans dans les changesets que doivent se trouver ces informations et qu'il y a encore moins de chances que l'utilisateur ouvre l'history que le panneau de gauche, surtout quand Polyglot utilise l'history pour communiquer ses états d'âme. Je vois mal des services comme Waymarged Trails montrer l'history des balades dans les changesets. Sauf que les contributeurs OSM ne cessent de répéter qu'il n'y a pas de carte et que OSM est un model of decoupling the factual mapping database from the data consumers and their choices. Marc Gemis expliquera en effet que l'utilisateur peut tout aussi bien ouvrir openstreetmap.de et qu'il n'y verra pas de panneau gauche du tout. Et tout cela est bien vrai pour les routes cyclistes, pédestres, etc. car, à part le calque Cycle Map dans lequel je ne parviens pas à voir des tags source, la meilleure manière de les voir est d'utiliser Waymarked Trails http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.22969lon=5.3472hill=0#routes dans lequel on voit (cliquer sur Route et puis sur une route) que Polyglot n'a mis aucun © du tout. Bref, OSM n'est pas une carte sur laquelle, comme le conçoit IDETA, on écrit un ©, mais des données que vont utiliser d'autres personnes (les consumers) pour (éventuellement) faire des cartes ou des produits montrant ou devant montrer l'attribution des sources. Et donc, si ce que IDETA impose est que ce © se trouve sur des cartes, c'est à ces dernières autres personnes que IDETA doit faire signer une convention, par exemple à Waymarked Trails http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.22969lon=5.3472hill=0#routes. OSM n'agit en effet que comme un distributeur des données (de IDETA), comme un grossiste, et lui faire signer une convention serait aussi bizarre que de demander à un grossiste de signer un accord promettant que les appareils vendus ne seront pas démontés. Je crois donc que la meilleure tactique est: * comme il me semble être peine perdue de vouloir leur faire comprendre tous les détails qui précèdent, d'expliquer que OSM intègre pas mal de données semblables à celles de IDETA sans préjudice pour leurs auteurs et même plutôt à leur bénéfice et qu'il serait dommage que leurs données ne bénéficient pas du même traitement (améliorer, édulcorer au mieux cette formulation sentimentale) * de leur expliquer de manière subtile que le texte de leurs conditions ne correspond pas au fonctionnement de OSM et qu'il est plus simple qu'ils signifient leur accord sur le texte clair d'ODBL avec d'éventuels amendements non contradictoires. Maintenant, un © ne peut pas modifier ses conditions en les restreignant, il est définitif. Est-il bien nécessaire de chercher une autre autorisation que celle que nous avons déjà (si celle-ci est valable)? On 27 May 2015, at 23:24, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On Fri May 29 10:42:27 2015 GMT+0100, Nick Whitelegg wrote: Exactly. Us Western Europeans would find Romanised versions of names useful when travelling out of Western Europe (to give a real example: I'm visiting Greece this summer, and while I'm just about at the stage where I think I can decode the Greek alphabet, Romanised versions are definitely helpful), and the converse should also be true. I remember street names in Athens were in both latin and Greek alphabets when I was there, although greek is at least recognisable to most westerners due to its use in maths and science. You don't even need on the ground evidence. You just need someone with knowledge of Cyrillic and Roman alphabets to be able to transliterate Abergavenny into the Cyrillic, presumably. Transliteration is something that can be done at application level, and a traveller would have learned the basics. You still need to be able to check the street names against.what is on the sign. Then why not have a single transliteration? A single cryllic to latin transliteration will serve all languages using the latin alphabet, do we need separate Russian, Ukrainian, Serbo Croat tags when they are identical? Phil (trigpoint) Nick From: Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk Sent: 29 May 2015 07:07 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation? Dave Corley davecorley at gmail.com writes: Lastly, and I think this is important point. To quote the wiki header . the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the world. Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries, people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted on a universal basis or its not. Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a long way away. -- Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Sent from my Jolla ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Hi Peter, Am 29.05.2015 um 11:52 schrieb Peter Barth: Vor allem beim Mappen von Luftbildern hab ich ja nur einen Zeitpunkt bei dem vielleicht grad Hochwasser ist oder eine Trockenzeit. Wenn du unter anderem Tide-abhängige Wasserstände meinst, dann könnte man evtl. natural=coastline in erwägung ziehen. Aber auch weiter flussaufwärts würde ich den Wasserstand der Flut erfassen und nicht den der Ebbe, auch wenn kein natural=coastline in der Nähe ist. BTW: Ich habe mir mal sagen lassen, dass sich die Gezeiten auch noch sehr,sehr weit im Inland messen lassen. Woran das auch immer liegt - wenn es auf Luftbildern erkennbar ist, sollte man das finde ich beim mappen berücksichtigen - sofern man es weiß. LG Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[OSM-talk-fr] Cépages ?
Bonjour, Quelqu'un sait-il s'il est possible d'indiquer les cépages des vignes et quels attributs utiliser ? J'ai cherché, mais rien trouvé à ce sujet dans le wiki. Merci Amicalement Laurent ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: TL;DR; wikidata is a gorgeous project, combining their knowledge with ours is very promising. Still, in my opinion, for the current state of where they are (and where the tools to combine both are), I would _not remove tags_ from OSM just because the same information might be available in wikidata. Agreed fully. It's not either or but and. And the first step is tooling : until I see a map that renders names in my language taken from wikidata (at scale please, the qLabel demo is not good enough) or that points me to the wikipedia article in my language, I won't bother investing time in editing Wikidata for mapping purposes. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
The Ukrainian names were added after the mapper engaged the UK community. Phil (trigpoint) On Fri May 29 11:27:41 2015 GMT+0100, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: On 29/05/2015, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 29/05/2015 07:07, Andrew Hain wrote: Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a long way away. Hang on, where is _anybody_ saying that? The whole point of the thread is about whether it would be possible to use wikidata to make the map _more_ useful to people who don't speak a particular language, not less. The thread opening was indeed about using wikidata translations (which would make the map more usefull for all) and perhaps deprecating name:CC in OSM as a result (which is much more debatable). But then the question came up (By Richard I think ?) of which name:CC should be kept for a particular object, and the large number of name:ru in the UK (reverted by you and others) was given as an example of an unaccepable name:CC. And then some agreed that name:en in non-English-speaking coutries should get the same treatment. This second paragraph can be seen as making the map less useful (I share that POV). It has been argued that the reverts were justified because the names were just transliterations and not real names, but I think that this was overzealous (it wasn't blind tranliteration, there was human skill involved). Even if it was justified, the reversals were either sloppy or biased : see http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10021976/history which got name:ru Лестер deleted but was allowed to keep name:ukЛестер. And just to be clear: pushing the decision of whether Лестер is the correct russian name of Leicester to wikidata just so that OSM looks cleaner is not a solution. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Sent from my Jolla ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SeFaireConnaitre :(
Pierre-Yves Berrard wrote Recrudescence de création de points mal placés de manière automatique par l'utilisateur SeFaireConnaitre. http://www.sefaireconnaitre.com/mentions.htm http://www.verif.com/societe/UBIFLOW-429751654/ -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/SeFaireConnaitre-tp5846293p5846473.html Sent from the France mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
2015-05-29 10:53 GMT+02:00 Luca Delucchi lucadel...@gmail.com: 2015-05-29 10:47 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com: 2015-05-29 10:43 GMT+02:00 Michele Mondelli mithenks...@gmail.com: Si, vedo Mancuno giovedì mattina! occhio che si chiama MancuSo :) Immagino non ci siano problemi per la collaborazione del Comune. Quello no, quello che invece reput[iam]o importante è la formula che deve prima di tutto venire incontro alla comunità. reputiamo chi? ho scritto reput[iam]o e non reputiamo proprio per dire che reputo ma so che non sono il solo a pensarla così. ho sentito diverse persone parlare di questo argomento finora ma solo uno si è preso l'onere e l'onore di organizzare l'evento. Lasciamogli carta bianca come è sempre stato fatto finora e poi quello che sarà sarà Il timore è che finisca che ci sia bassa partecipazione. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-tr] openstreetmap.org.tr
Selamlar, Alan adını almıştık, ancak harekete geçemedik. Bu yaz döneminde harekete geçmeyi hep birlikte planlayabiliriz. Esenlikle:) On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:35 AM, yusuf ülkü yusufulk...@hotmail.com wrote: Açılmışmıydı ki org.tr To: talk-tr@openstreetmap.org Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 21:52:55 +0300 From: em...@katpatuka.org Subject: [Talk-tr] openstreetmap.org.tr merhabalar, openstreetmap.org.tr çıkmıyor artık... Fakat domain adı 2019-05-30 kadar geçerli... ___ Talk-tr mailing list Talk-tr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tr ___ Talk-tr mailing list Talk-tr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tr -- http://orkutmuratyilmaz.com ___ Talk-tr mailing list Talk-tr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tr
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
2015-05-29 11:41 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 29 May 2015 at 09:57, Arch Arch 7h3.a...@gmail.com wrote: If the foreign name differs from the transliteration I think no one would oppose to add the name into the OSM database. Then you haven't been paying attention to this thread. The problem is that it's not a transliteration of the characters, that would be easy. It's a transliteration of a pronunciation with characters that happen to be familiar to a person speaking one of many languages which use Latin script. Polyglot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
2015-05-29 11:38 GMT+02:00 Luca Delucchi lucadel...@gmail.com: 2015-05-29 11:10 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com: ho scritto reput[iam]o e non reputiamo proprio per dire che reputo ma so che non sono il solo a pensarla così. ma allora queste persone potrebbero organizzare l'evento? ;-) Se rileggi il thread dall'inizio ti accorgi che qualcuno avevo proposto (quantomeno il sottoscritto) Il timore è che finisca che ci sia bassa partecipazione. perchè se invece facciamo qualcosa solo per la comunità (che tra l'altro non credo esista in italia, intesa come comunità, pernso che nel nostro paese ci siano per lo più singoli che contribuiscono a OSM) dipende cosa intendi per comunità. Sicuramente, per come è fatta la piattaforma di OSM, gli strumenti di abilitazione di una comunità sono poveri, ma di certo non tutti gli utenti registrati a osm sono in una ML e non è detto che la ML sia la risposta. Quello che noto però è che, appena contatti qualcuno/a che partecipa a OSM, questo/a risponde subito ed è contento/a di incontrare altre persone. credete che verranno più persone di quelle che sono venute gli anni precedenti (a parte Matera che sembra aver avuto un numero molto basso di partecipazione) ? Secondo me ci sarà un numero analogo a quello di Rovereto (intorno al 100) con una percentuale bassa dei soliti nomi (se liberi), un gruppo di osmers del posto ed un gruppo di persone esterne interessate all'evento. Io più che dal tipo di evento penso che la partecipazione delle persone sia data dal fatto che: - si scelga una data lontana da altri eventi simili - la data venga scelta con un sondaggio su un range di date proposte dall'organizzatore/i - l'evento non venga organizzato nell'ultimo mese prima la conferenza - che l'evento venga pubblicizzato bene sul maggior numero di canali con un certo margine temporale e ricordato a più riprese. Concordo. Partendo ora però questo questo vuol dire che si va a novembre inoltrato (se va bene) oppure ad inizio 2016. comunque sia, credo che difficilmente avremo mai più di 100 partecipanti, pensando che SOTM eu arriverà a circa 300 persone (non ho trovato nessun numero, ma dalla foto di gruppo direi che il numero dovrebbe essere più o meno questo) penso che 100 sia già un ottimo numero 100 è il numero a cui si stava tendendo con l'evento di Rovereto e dopo che l'evento è stato gestito come single event e non parallel event. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-at] Public Transport Schema und Wien
Hallo Robin! Gratuliere! Du hast die Anmeldung für die Mailing-liste geschafft. :-) Von mir mal ein herzliches Willkommen! LG, Christian ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Fri, 2015-05-29 at 13:14 +0200, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: And as it happens, Абергавенни comes from Abergavenny rather than Y Fenni, showing that some discernment was applied. Not sure I understand that statement, transliterating Y Fenni is equally valid in my view. Precisely, transliterating Y Fenni would have been equaly easy, but the contributor chose the transliteration of Abergavenny instead to use in Russian. That choice was made by a human. That brings Абергавенни closer to being an actual name rather than an automatic transliteration. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 2015-05-29 14:05, SomeoneElse wrote: On 29/05/2015 12:51, Maarten Deen wrote: It depends on what you want. When someone asks me to navigate to Natanzon, Haifa how can I enter it when the only name in the map is נתנזון, חיפה? I don't see why the transliterated name is not important. No-one is saying that the transliterated name is not useful for all sorts of reasons (the thread title can wikidata links help... makes it clear that this is about trying to make it easier to get to these names, not harder). The question here is, in a case when a name:xx isn't widely used in the place and doesn't appear on signs*, how can a user of the data know that they've got there or not? The problem is that there is a third way of writing a place name. Namely the internationalized name of the place in the alphabet that you use. Beijing is Peking in Dutch, but we commonly use Beijing these days. Other countries (Germany, France) are still more prone to using their transliteration. For example: I do not want to see a map that shows name:nl for every place. Some are very obscure and may not be understood, others are more common but are just not used in normal life. I want to see name, but for non-Latin alphabets I probably want name:en. But it should not be a big challenge to identify the character set that's used in a string, so it should also not be very difficult to know when to show name and when to show name:en. On the other hand: for showing a map on my navigation device, I want to see what is on the signposts. So it all depends on the usage. OSM shouldn't be it's own parallel universe - we map what's on the ground. Am I correct in thinking that your idea is not to have things that are not on the ground in OSM? The problem with this is: to have translations by having to look up every name on an external website is not a very workable solution. That means having to load the complete database of that website before you do anything, or accept massive latencies for each lookup. And the relation that is used to lookup the data in this external database may break. It is much more convenient to have name:xx in OSM. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-in] Taginfo for India OSM
Hi Naveen, To get the length of roads in OSM, tools like road_length https://github.com/yogiks/osmium-contrib/tree/master/road_length and osm-length http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/filter/osm-length/ can be helpful(Anyone else know other programs?). Other way of doing this(I've never tried) can be loading osm2pgsql database with geofabrik's India OSM extract and running required queries. Tried Frederik's osm-length-2.pl http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/filter/osm-length/osm-length-2.pl with Bengaluru https://s3.amazonaws.com/metro-extracts.mapzen.com/bengaluru_india.osm.bz2 OSM extract and got the following result - $perl osm-length-2.pl blr.osm blrroads.osm highway length sums (metres): 6033537m residential 5054166m unclassified 2923566m tertiary 1570188m secondary 671660m service 593373m primary 482729m track 405331m trunk 329030m motorwa y 122168m living_stre et107621m footway86635m road 31193m path 27774m primary_link 21972m motorway_link 21734m trunk_link 20323m pedestrian 17188m construction 12494m tertiary_link 10146m secondary_link 5783m steps 2086m raceway 807m proposed 265m bridleway184m cycleway 76m TOTAL 18552043m As per the tagging scheme http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India:Tags/Highway#Major_Roads , most of the NH except few Urban Arterial Roads are tagged as highway=trunk http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/tags/highway=trunk#map. So length of trunk can approximately tell the NH coverage in OSM. cheers, yogi On Friday 29 May 2015 06:10 AM, Naveen Francis wrote: Hi Yogi, Is there any tool to know how many kms of NH is covered in OSM http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/tags/network=IN%3ANH ? http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/keys/network#values Thanks, Naveen On 27 May 2015 at 13:52, Yogesh योगि yog...@karnatakaeducation.org.in mailto:yog...@karnatakaeducation.org.in wrote: Right, and tags like noexit=no http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/tags/noexit=no are still in use although it's suggested http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:noexit%3Dno not to use. May be we'll find many more which can be helpful in improving our map data. And thanks to Sajjad and Satya, the taginfo instance is now live at new address - http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/ Henceforth, everyone please use the above address to find the tagging stats for India. Also added the same to the taginfo page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Taginfo/Sites on OpenStreetMap wiki. On Monday 25 May 2015 11:58 PM, Arun Ganesh wrote: Yogesh, this is really useful. Already see we need an anganwadi tag http://rmsa.karnatakaeducation.org.in/search?q=anganwadi#values -- Arun Ganesh (planemad) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Planemad ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-in@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- Yogesh K S Sent from an Electronic Device ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-in@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- Yogesh K S Sent from an Electronic Device ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-at] Public Transport Schema und Wien
Du mußt bei Haltestelle zwei Dinge unterscheiden: 1) den logischen Teil Die public_transport=stop_position ist der logische Teil einer Haltestelle. Sie trägt z.B. den Namen. Es kann für jede Fahrtrichtung eine eigene stop_position geben, falls diese etwas weiter (sagen wir mal mehr als 10 Meter) voneinander räumlich getrennt sind. Für eine Haltestelle mit Einstiegstellen, die sich gegenüber liegen, reicht es, eine einzige stop_position einzuzeichnen, die dann in beiden Fahrtrichtungsrelationen vorkommt. 2) den physischen Teil Die public_transport=platform ist der physische Teil der Haltestelle. Dort steht die Tafel, dort warten die Leute. Hier können auch weitere Zusätze angegeben werden (ob überdacht, mit Sitzbank, etc.) Beides wird eventuell noch in eine stop_area-Relation zusammen gefaßt, falls notwendig (weil z.B. mehrere von einander getrennte Platformen von unterschiedlichen Buslinien existieren). Für ganz wichtig halte ich die Aufteilung der einzeln Streckenverläufe (Fahrtrichtungen, Routen) in jeweils eigene Relationen, die dann wieder in einer Master-Relation zusammengefaßt werden. Im JOSM gibt es z.B. eine eigene Vorlage für ÖPNV-Mapping. Damit lassen sich sehr leicht Haltestellen, Wartebereiche für Bus, Bim, Bahn eintragen. LG, Christian ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015 14:14, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: I'm not a fan of (un)signed=* (the most common in tagginfo) because their meaning is not obvious enough. name:signed=en;cy would be a first and open the multiple-value can of worms. But name:signed=yes/no has 161 uses in taginfo, and name:CC:signed=yes/no seems like an obvious extension. The thread was about trying to avoid name inflation; I was trying to also avoid name:signed inflation :) Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
2015-05-29 12:01 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com: dipende cosa intendi per comunità. Sicuramente, per come è fatta la piattaforma di OSM, gli strumenti di abilitazione di una comunità sono poveri, ma di certo non tutti gli utenti registrati a osm sono in una ML e non è detto che la ML sia la risposta. Quello che noto però è che, appena contatti qualcuno/a che partecipa a OSM, questo/a risponde subito ed è contento/a di incontrare altre persone. boh, all'estero mi sembra ci sia più movimento. ti faccio alcuni esempi: - non esistono appuntamenti locali continui, ci abbiamo provato in diversi posti ma alla fine è sempre finito tutto - ci sono pochissimi eventi di mappatura, abbiamo un numero abbastanza alto di mappatori ma nessun è interessato nell'organizzare eventi Secondo me ci sarà un numero analogo a quello di Rovereto (intorno al 100) con una percentuale bassa dei soliti nomi (se liberi), un gruppo di osmers del posto ed un gruppo di persone esterne interessate all'evento. e più o meno come a padova, torino e genova ;-) se ripenso al primo evento eravamo molti meno ma molto più affiatati, tutti mappers da molte parti d'italia. Concordo. Partendo ora però questo questo vuol dire che si va a novembre inoltrato (se va bene) oppure ad inizio 2016. qualcuno ci corre dietro? facciamolo anche a dicembre, se non vogliamo fare il mapping party non ci sono problemi ;-) anzi a dicembre non ci sono eventi importanti (vado un po' a memoria) 100 è il numero a cui si stava tendendo con l'evento di Rovereto e dopo che l'evento è stato gestito come single event e non parallel event. cosa intendi come parallel event? -- ciao Luca http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/ www.lucadelu.org ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 29/05/2015, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: I've used name:signed=no (though this is by no means an accepted tag, and if anyone can come up with a more accepted version that does the same job I'm all ears). Maybe something like name:signed=en;cy might solve the name verifiability problem for Abergavenny? I'll keep those in mind next time I survey such an area. I'm not a fan of (un)signed=* (the most common in tagginfo) because their meaning is not obvious enough. name:signed=en;cy would be a first and open the multiple-value can of worms. But name:signed=yes/no has 161 uses in taginfo, and name:CC:signed=yes/no seems like an obvious extension. What's wrong with name ? What's the UK policy on the content of name for places with Welsh and English names ? If you want to see Welsh names as often as possible but still make the local name more prominent, use local name (welsh name if different) in your map generating script. The problem here is that there are two* equally valid and correct names (in on-the-ground verifiable terms) for Abergavenny. Some communities pick one of the names for the name tag and others put both in. In either case, it should be sufficient for following directions. In this case we have name=Abergavenny, so local mappers favored the english name. While it's not necessary for following directions (use name for that), I agree that it would be nice to know which languages are signposted and verifyable on the ground. IMHO a signpost has never been a requirement for name:CC (or even name actually). Which leads to the name:signed discussion above. Would that cover all the usecases and make people happy ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-at] disput um wohnprojekt
On 05/29/2015 11:00 AM, Py Mayly wrote: Irgendwo war noch eine Diskussion zum Objekt bei den Notes, aber ich finde die grad nicht mehr. Noch in der ursprünglichen Note verlinkt war folgendes Changeset wo User Species mit emergency99 diskutiert hat, dass es reverted gehört. Das ist angeblich geschehen laut der Diskussion: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31502529 Hast du die Diskussion gemeint? Norbert ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] disput um wohnprojekt
Ja, ich habe es wieder reverted. Und so eingetragen wie in der Fehlernote jetzt gewünscht. Dennoch wäre die Vorlage einer Grundbenützungsberechtigung oder ähnliches sinnvoll... Die Adresse selbst (gegenüber 66) wurde ja schon in den WienGIS Plan aufgenommen, und ist offenbar offiziell. ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cépages ?
Le Tag crop semble correspondre à ton besoin même si actuellement aucun usage n'en ai fait pour cartographier les cépages.L'usage d'un crop:type me paraîtrait bien aussi mais sans aucun fondement.Si tu trouves une solution meilleure tiens nous au courant :) Le Vendredi 29 mai 2015 12h32, Laurent Chiche rop...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonjour, Quelqu'un sait-il s'il est possible d'indiquer les cépages des vignes et quels attributs utiliser ? J'ai cherché, mais rien trouvé à ce sujet dans le wiki. Merci Amicalement Laurent ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-ie] Water depth in lake
Hello talk-ie@openstreetmap.org I'm working on a project for work which involves faffing about on a lake here in Ireland in a boat. What I'm doing is working on pulling NMEA Data off the boat's CAN Bus into a computer. The boat has a few sesnors on it, depth, GPS and will have water Temp, if not more. There is a Garmin Display which has a maps on it for navigation. I'm putting a RaspberyPi with a screen on the boat for something else but I was just thinking that I could actually stick a map on the RaspberryPi as well and use that instead of the garmin. Get rid of one screen. I've used Navit in a previous project years ago which I think used OpenStreetMaps, but I might be wrong. This could only replace the Garmin if the maps had depth data for the lake. Even if the OpenStreetMap doesn't have lake water depth maybe I could write a script to collect that data for the OSM Project? I had a look at the OSM maps online and there don't seem to be any water depth data so is data collection of interest? John ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Water depth in lake
http://www.openseamap.org/ is a marine map, which may have depth, or could use depth data. There may be some legal ramifications in some countries where the government/department has a monopoly on producing marine charts (which are maps with depth and other data) as free/open maps may have errors the government wants one source. Note sure if that applies for Ireland: Anyway this has lready been done! http://hackaday.com/2015/05/25/project-sea-rendering-autonomously-renders-sea-bottoms/ but yes, if you could marry depth with location data, however there are some things to take account: 1) Accuracy of GPS, are you recording the current error on position from the GPS too? 2) Accuracy of ultrasonic (is it affected by temperature etc) tolerence/? 3) Depth is normally displayed on maps as mean tide level (I think), are you taking into account tide (off shore) or recent rain for rivers to calculate the actual depth below mean level? I assume the Garmin is a boat Garmin so takes special boat maps. I am quite used to NMEA data strings. It may leave out important data such as accuracy of the GPS at each point in time, depending on which string you use. To save time could you not just use a laptop as a datalogger, or do you want a leave it and forget option? Do you have power limitations or size or what. Regarding depth are you actually mapping the area or only places you happen to pass? Are you doing something else on the boat and was to log the data as a side project? I have seen many fishing boats with a full desktop LCD monitor and trackball mouse, with detailed marine charts instead of small displays. They can overlay previous routes and they even share previous areas of fishing between boats. On 29/05/2015, John Whitmore captain.dea...@gmail.com wrote: Hello talk-ie@openstreetmap.org I'm working on a project for work which involves faffing about on a lake here in Ireland in a boat. What I'm doing is working on pulling NMEA Data off the boat's CAN Bus into a computer. The boat has a few sesnors on it, depth, GPS and will have water Temp, if not more. There is a Garmin Display which has a maps on it for navigation. I'm putting a RaspberyPi with a screen on the boat for something else but I was just thinking that I could actually stick a map on the RaspberryPi as well and use that instead of the garmin. Get rid of one screen. I've used Navit in a previous project years ago which I think used OpenStreetMaps, but I might be wrong. This could only replace the Garmin if the maps had depth data for the lake. Even if the OpenStreetMap doesn't have lake water depth maybe I could write a script to collect that data for the OSM Project? I had a look at the OSM maps online and there don't seem to be any water depth data so is data collection of interest? John ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Water depth in lake
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi John, OSM can store many things, but water depths are probably not being shown on the main OSM page, but that doesn't mean they are not being stored. Do you know about OpenSeaMap? It uses OSM but for more nautical/maritime uses. It looks like they are doing something about collecting depths: http://depth.openseamap.org/ Maybe contact them and find out? Hope that helps, Rory On 29/05/15 15:50, John Whitmore wrote: Hello talk-ie@openstreetmap.org I'm working on a project for work which involves faffing about on a lake here in Ireland in a boat. What I'm doing is working on pulling NMEA Data off the boat's CAN Bus into a computer. The boat has a few sesnors on it, depth, GPS and will have water Temp, if not more. There is a Garmin Display which has a maps on it for navigation. I'm putting a RaspberyPi with a screen on the boat for something else but I was just thinking that I could actually stick a map on the RaspberryPi as well and use that instead of the garmin. Get rid of one screen. I've used Navit in a previous project years ago which I think used OpenStreetMaps, but I might be wrong. This could only replace the Garmin if the maps had depth data for the lake. Even if the OpenStreetMap doesn't have lake water depth maybe I could write a script to collect that data for the OSM Project? I had a look at the OSM maps online and there don't seem to be any water depth data so is data collection of interest? John ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVaHQtAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2LP8H/0Wb7aDrOs+k7ZuIrXrbFzUS VZHVzs6wKfCpBWYRtf5co9Z7gFNetFmuiiRamfXC9hPVZF+m9ENPCaka7d8B2w1f L1Ff0wlUEc5VJ5Tb/W6pDyvFH+8I8h5yXGsOFil/dhywC17+4ZHuu6wfnOq/Syl3 rS3oKZrzmGkSpCT6qh53Vbn5Kz0ngLkLDKO1wphu1XS/gLz/bpYfembDu8C9npPr Mmo/KUfD/fCcZTWbHdxo7iIsR1Xi66OM0WZQs06fP9/LcPZCWmAeYda4BJLliNpe tnsjetyxJmrJIbdEYr1jKRAjaMEYj0clkOwVR45UexNtiHyzuOyxILeimzxF0vY= =8HBs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Wallonie picarde à vélo / ODBL compatible ?
2015-05-29 11:53 GMT+02:00 André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: BTW, using registered letters makes me laugh. One may claim that the envelope was empty. totally of topic, but the right way to do this is to only send the letter (folded and address on the same paper as the text) and not put it in an envelope. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
You don't even need on the ground evidence. You just need someone with knowledge of Cyrillic and Roman alphabets to be able to transliterate Abergavenny into the Cyrillic, presumably. Transliteration is something that can be done at application level, and a traveller would have learned the basics. You still need to be able to check the street names against.what is on the sign. Then why not have a single transliteration? A single cryllic to latin transliteration will serve all languages using the latin alphabet, do we need separate Russian, Ukrainian, Serbo Croat tags when they are identical? Problem is, they are not identical. Russian, Serbian, Ukrainian, Belarusian and other slavic languages have different alphabets, same way as Spanish, German and Norwegian languages all have different letters. Nowa Szkocja and Nova Scotia both sound the same, but are in different languages. Same rules work across all the languages, just - sometimes - they happen to look the same. In turn, looking the same does not guarantee that these names sound the same. What exactly are we trying to save by omitting these locales, what wasn't eaten already by source= on French buildings? :) -- Darafei Komяpa Praliaskouski OSM BY Team - http://openstreetmap.by/ xmpp:m...@komzpa.net mailto:m...@komzpa.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cépages ?
crop=grape http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:crop%3Dgrape existe, mais c'est pour du raisin, en général. Donc pas pour spécifier le cépage. Par contre, bien que les cépages ne rentrent pas dans les classifications biologiques http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9page#Classification_botanique, peut-être faudrait-il s'inspirer de cette hiérarchie des tags existante (species, genus, taxon) pour classer les cépages et leur famille d'appartenance ? Francescu Le 29 mai 2015 15:51, dHuy Pierre dh...@yahoo.fr a écrit : Le Tag crop semble correspondre à ton besoin même si actuellement aucun usage n'en ai fait pour cartographier les cépages.L'usage d'un crop:type me paraîtrait bien aussi mais sans aucun fondement. Si tu trouves une solution meilleure tiens nous au courant :) Le Vendredi 29 mai 2015 12h32, Laurent Chiche rop...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonjour, Quelqu'un sait-il s'il est possible d'indiquer les cépages des vignes et quels attributs utiliser ? J'ai cherché, mais rien trouvé à ce sujet dans le wiki. Merci Amicalement Laurent ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Francescu ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015
boh, all'estero mi sembra ci sia più movimento. ti faccio alcuni esempi: - non esistono appuntamenti locali continui, ci abbiamo provato in diversi posti ma alla fine è sempre finito tutto - ci sono pochissimi eventi di mappatura, abbiamo un numero abbastanza alto di mappatori ma nessun è interessato nell'organizzare eventi non abbiamo la percezione esatta di quanti sono i vari stammtisch che fanno sull'asse tedesco, la mia percezione però è che ci siano sempre più eventi che ruotano intorno ad osm Secondo me ci sarà un numero analogo a quello di Rovereto (intorno al 100) con una percentuale bassa dei soliti nomi (se liberi), un gruppo di osmers del posto ed un gruppo di persone esterne interessate all'evento. e più o meno come a padova, torino e genova ;-) IMHO: trento20-30 genova non ho idea: non sono potuto andare padova 60-70 torino 40-50 rovereto 70-80 matera 20-30 se ripenso al primo evento eravamo molti meno ma molto più affiatati, tutti mappers da molte parti d'italia. secondo me anche Padova e Rovereto sono stati interessanti. Genova non c'ero, ma ricordo di aver avuto feedback positivi Concordo. Partendo ora però questo questo vuol dire che si va a novembre inoltrato (se va bene) oppure ad inizio 2016. qualcuno ci corre dietro? facciamolo anche a dicembre, se non vogliamo fare il mapping party non ci sono problemi ;-) anzi a dicembre non ci sono eventi importanti (vado un po' a memoria) solitamente a dicembre la disponibilità di date libere si riduce drasticamente a causa delle festività 100 è il numero a cui si stava tendendo con l'evento di Rovereto e dopo che l'evento è stato gestito come single event e non parallel event. cosa intendi come parallel event? i casi come Matera e Torino Matera = in quelle date c'erano diversi eventi nella città Torino = è stato fatto in coda al gfoss day sperando di recuperare persone da gfoss.it, ma il l'insieme comune fra gfoss.it e osm era praticamente lo stesso numero che si vedeva nelle precedenti edizioni. Ammetto che ho messo fuori dal totale le due classi che sono venute al mattino. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[OSM-talk-ie] Overpass giving errors
Trying to run searches with the wizard (amenity=hospital etc) and getting the following error *Error*: runtime error: open64: 111 Connection refused /home/roles/overpass/db//osm3s_v0.7.52_osm_base Dispatcher_Client::3 Dave ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
W dniu 29.05.2015 18:43, Andrew Guertin napisał(a): I can imagine a world where no information about businesses is stored in OSM. OSM has a geometry and a wikidata link. Wikidata says what kind of business it is, what its name is, what its contact info it, what its opening hours are, etc. +1 - that would be even better than just a place for categories and other objects relations. Real database instead of flat tags - yummy! -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
I don't think Wikidata will deem all businesses in the world noteworthy enough for inclusion. In our own instance of OSMdata we can include whatever we like, of course. businesses addresses as first class citizens streets PT stops, routes and we may even be able to figure out a way to include time tables the sky is the limit Jo 2015-05-29 18:43 GMT+02:00 Andrew Guertin andrew.guer...@uvm.edu: On 05/27/2015 05:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: We are a database of geodata [...] Would it not be better to record the wikidata link for London, and then (perhaps in co-operation with people at Wikidata) provide means for people doing map rendering to join OSM data with a separately-loaded translation table from Wikidata? Would this be restricted to just names? I can imagine a world where no information about businesses is stored in OSM. OSM has a geometry and a wikidata link. Wikidata says what kind of business it is, what its name is, what its contact info it, what its opening hours are, etc. That would be a very different world from the one we live in. In lieu of listing them all out, I will just say I can see many benefits to living in that world, and many benefits to what we have now. Is that a goal of this integration? I've been thinking about this for a while, so I have a lot of questions based on the answer... --Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-cz] zmizelá Dřevnice
zdar, Další možnost, že tvoří mapy pro jeden letecký simulátor, který využívá OSM data (řešilo se to tu kdysi dávno, tak rok, dva zpátky. waterway=river se jim ve hře nevykreslovalo tak dotyční kreslili nesmyslné kraje řek bez návaznosti na realitu). řešilo a nevyřešilo, stydím se a zvyšuju nabídku, když se toho někdo ujme, na dvě piva :-) K. ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-it] open data comune di Verona
Il validatore di JOSM segnala 4 errori legati al tag addr:postcode vuoto. Ciao! Leonardo ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Am 29.05.2015 10:32, schrieb Christoph Hormann: On Friday 29 May 2015, Stephan Wolff wrote: Das würde ein weltweites Tagging-Schema zerstören... Da die Übergänge zwischen den Wasserflächen von Flüssen, Kanälen und Seen (im doppelten Wortsinn) fließend sind, finde ich das neue Schema logisch und praktikabel. Das ist genau der Knackpunkt - es mag wie in vielen anderen Bereichen auch Grenzfälle geben. In der überwiegenden Zahl der Fälle ist die Unterscheidung jedoch vor Ort eindeutig möglich und für die meisten Datennutzungen die über einfache Karten nach dem Schema 'alles Blau malen' hinaus gehen ist diese Unterscheidung sehr wichtig und sollte deshalb idealerweise bereits im primären Tag erfolgen. Welche Anwendungen sind denn konkret betroffen? Dies ist bei waterway=riverbank für stehend/fließend der Fall, nicht jedoch für natürlich/künstlich (waterway=riverbank wird traditionell auch für Kanäle verwendet). Eine gerichtete Strömung über ein Flächenobjekt zu beschreiben, ist ohnehin schwierig. Wenn man waterway=riverbank auch für Kanäle verwendet, ist es eher die Unterscheidung rundlich/länglich. natural=water + water=* erlaubt generell auch das undifferenzierte Tagging von Wasserflächen, was auch in über 90 Prozent der Fälle so gemacht wird - siehe http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=water#combinations und der Umstieg von waterway=riverbank auf natural=water + water=river wird dies verstärken, denn das water=river wird dann oft - weil scheinbar unnötig - weggelassen. Insgesamt eine schlechte Entwicklung. Vielleicht setzt sich water=* auch langsam durch und man kann zwischen Flüssen, Altarmen, Kanälen, Seen und Teichen unterscheiden. Das wäre eine sehr gute Entwicklung. Dass waterway=riverbank unschön ist, weil es eigentlich ein Linien-Tag aus der vor-Multipolygon-Zeit ist und weil es - siehe oben - keine Unterscheidung Fluss-Kanal ermöglicht steht außer Frage. Im Proposal zur Änderung wird das Thema Unterscheidung fließende/stehende Gewässer jedoch leider nicht thematisiert. Gab es diese Unterscheidung bislang? Dann hätte man waterway=riverbank für Kanäle verbieten müssen. Ich würde deshalb grundsätzlich empfehlen, im Allgemeinen bei der Verwendung von waterway=riverbank für Flüsse zu bleiben und bei der Verwendung von natural=water *immer* ein water=* zu taggen. Dem zweiten Teil kann ich zustimmen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-at] disput um wohnprojekt
Normal mappe ich keine Buildings ;). Aber ein Wagenpark, der voriges Jahr noch widerrechtlich aufgestellt war, ist jetzt auch nicht so ein alltägliches Problem und vor allem kein Gebäude... Aber ich werde es jetzt in ruhe lassen. Hab grad größere Probleme mit dem richtigen vs gutem mappen ÖPNV ... Dann ist der Park halt da. Dann können wir aber den Kartenfehler als erledigt markieren, wenn es kein Fehler mehr ist, oder? Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 18:03:51 +0200 From: sk...@ostblock.org To: talk-at@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-at] disput um wohnprojekt -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-05-29 15:38, Robin Däneke wrote: Dennoch wäre die Vorlage einer Grundbenützungsberechtigung oder ähnliches sinnvoll... Ned bös sein, aber... Fragst du sonst, bevor du building=yes o.ä. mappst, jedes Mal nach einer aufrechten Bau- und Benützungsbewilligung? ME ist hier die augenscheinliche Realität völlig ausreichend. LG, Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVaI3nAAoJEMZD4PEit0TYRAMIAIDAmFCI+c+fgFZPK2UHv2Rz A5dDgoQk0hOzZrglMymTzObpBdvjcJMq0RJyt/8W5eo58BkifzJPNq4ajSiUYtMz 94xT7rhSJ7nAPkn273kRzELsTxqeP1IoOsfxDlF1yyYBw2s/Xs+HXmpg11iLjWaF ekhuIBMDSiINKHwapAty0s8nOscmUAB7tnmi7dWMZpXBFbH4pUqti1sATb5tcowX YYWUh7GGJpl6OwdyFg04LxPMfRi5hTdjaS2CqNgD+VwJMlzgbpj8vInN7Qjcij4e zSrAd+bFWUYhDfLJBiVHpLUxUixDP0IQLU2jMQEm+ol0hEBOaBwBrARB1sugtqs= =1cl3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] disput um wohnprojekt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-05-29 15:38, Robin Däneke wrote: Dennoch wäre die Vorlage einer Grundbenützungsberechtigung oder ähnliches sinnvoll... Ned bös sein, aber... Fragst du sonst, bevor du building=yes o.ä. mappst, jedes Mal nach einer aufrechten Bau- und Benützungsbewilligung? ME ist hier die augenscheinliche Realität völlig ausreichend. LG, Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVaI3nAAoJEMZD4PEit0TYRAMIAIDAmFCI+c+fgFZPK2UHv2Rz A5dDgoQk0hOzZrglMymTzObpBdvjcJMq0RJyt/8W5eo58BkifzJPNq4ajSiUYtMz 94xT7rhSJ7nAPkn273kRzELsTxqeP1IoOsfxDlF1yyYBw2s/Xs+HXmpg11iLjWaF ekhuIBMDSiINKHwapAty0s8nOscmUAB7tnmi7dWMZpXBFbH4pUqti1sATb5tcowX YYWUh7GGJpl6OwdyFg04LxPMfRi5hTdjaS2CqNgD+VwJMlzgbpj8vInN7Qjcij4e zSrAd+bFWUYhDfLJBiVHpLUxUixDP0IQLU2jMQEm+ol0hEBOaBwBrARB1sugtqs= =1cl3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 05/27/2015 05:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: We are a database of geodata [...] Would it not be better to record the wikidata link for London, and then (perhaps in co-operation with people at Wikidata) provide means for people doing map rendering to join OSM data with a separately-loaded translation table from Wikidata? Would this be restricted to just names? I can imagine a world where no information about businesses is stored in OSM. OSM has a geometry and a wikidata link. Wikidata says what kind of business it is, what its name is, what its contact info it, what its opening hours are, etc. That would be a very different world from the one we live in. In lieu of listing them all out, I will just say I can see many benefits to living in that world, and many benefits to what we have now. Is that a goal of this integration? I've been thinking about this for a while, so I have a lot of questions based on the answer... --Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] open data comune di Verona
2015-05-22 9:43 GMT+02:00 Andrea Musuruane musur...@gmail.com: 2015-05-22 9:18 GMT+02:00 dvdzero dvdz...@gmail.com: Simone F. wrote Se ti può essere utile, ho confrontato le geometrie delle strade con quelle presenti in OSM, come avevo fatto con Rimini un anno fa: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41550819/OSM/verona-OSM/index.html grazie per la mappa! e grazie a tutti per le indicazioni Pensavo di importare in particolare i civici facendo un merge con quelli presenti. La rete stradale la userei solo per controllo ed eventualmente aggiungere puntualmente quello che manca oppure correggere geometrie ed eventuali offset. Ciao, sto facendo un script con ogr2osm per importare i dati di Verona. Sono a buon punto, devo solo finire di normalizzare i nomi delle strade (togliendo abbreviazioni, ecc). Appena è finito lo condivido su github. Lo script di conversione per i civici di Verona da usare con ogr2osm è disponibile qui: https://github.com/musuruan/osm_imports Qui trovate il file OSM in output: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12575912/NUMERAZIONE_CIVICA_point.osm E' da controllare. *Mi raccomando di NON importare nulla*. Questo è solo un primo passo per poter fare l'import. Qui trovate l'elenco di tutte le vie contenute nel file OSM: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12575912/NUMERAZIONE_CIVICA_point.csv Attendo feedback. Poi dopo possiamo ragionare sulla procedura di import. Ciao, Andrea ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:32:23AM +0200, Christoph Hormann wrote: und der Umstieg von waterway=riverbank auf natural=water + water=river wird dies verstärken, denn das water=river wird dann oft - weil scheinbar unnötig - weggelassen. Insgesamt eine schlechte Entwicklung. Dass waterway=riverbank unschön ist, weil es eigentlich ein Linien-Tag aus der vor-Multipolygon-Zeit ist und weil es - siehe oben - keine Unterscheidung Fluss-Kanal ermöglicht steht außer Frage. Im Proposal zur Änderung wird das Thema Unterscheidung fließende/stehende Gewässer jedoch leider nicht thematisiert. Ich würde deshalb grundsätzlich empfehlen, im Allgemeinen bei der Verwendung von waterway=riverbank für Flüsse zu bleiben und bei der Verwendung von natural=water *immer* ein water=* zu taggen. +1 waterway=riverbanks ist viel einfacher zu tippen, suchen usf. Bin dafür die die wikis an tastächlichen Gebrauch aunzupassen, riverbanks ist keineswegs obsolet und sollte gleichberechtigt bleiben. Richard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
On 05/29/2015 08:18 AM, Philip Barnes wrote: On Fri, 2015-05-29 at 13:14 +0200, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: And as it happens, Абергавенни comes from Abergavenny rather than Y Fenni, showing that some discernment was applied. Not sure I understand that statement, transliterating Y Fenni is equally valid in my view. Russian speakers have been calling that city Абергавенни for over 150 years. If someone transliterated Y Fenni and said that was the Russian name for the city, they would be wrong. --Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
Am 29.05.2015 10:02, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Da die Übergänge zwischen den Wasserflächen von Flüssen, Kanälen und Seen (im doppelten Wortsinn) fließend sind, finde ich das neue Schema logisch und praktikabel. verstehe ich nicht. Es ist doch egal ob man water=river oder waterway=riverbank taggt, wo der Fluss aufhört und der See anfängt muss man so oder so entscheiden. Es ist nicht einmal definiert, wann man eine Verbreiterung eines Flusses als See bezeichnet. Wenn es weder eine klare inhaltliche noch räumliche Grenze gibt, finde ich die Verwendung des gleichen Haupttags mit Differenzierung im Subtag logisch. Das neue Schema ist mehr als ein Jahr alt, viele Flüsse sind schon so erfasst. Wenn du die Änderung erst jetzt entdeckst, ist die Zerstörung offenbar nicht bedeutend. Welche Anwendung ist überhaupt betroffen? waterway=riverbank komplett rausnehmen aus dem Fluss-Artikel finde ich auch nicht gerade hilfreich, grenzt in der Form für mich an Vandalismus, immerhin gibt es nach wie vor 283K Objekte, die diesen Tag haben, water=river sind gerade mal 10.700 vorhanden (nach wie Du selbst schreibst, über einem Jahr). Zum Wiki-Artikel gebe ich dir recht. Man darf waterway=riverbank nicht einfach streichen. Für die Renderer und anderen Anwendungen scheint die Umstellung aber problemlos zu sein. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[OSM-talk] State of the Map LatAm 2015
Dear All, Today we officially announced the first State of the Map LatAm. We will host this conference between September 4th and 6th, in Santiago de Chile. As many people asked in Buenos Aires, the State of the Map LatAm will take place in the days just before the AbreLatam (7th-8th) and the ConDatos (9th-10th) two of the biggest Open Data events in the continent. So many people can take advantage of their scholarship programs. We will still be providing scholarships for entry tickets and accomodations in Santiago. The Call for Proposals will be open until July 3th. You can get more information in http://sotm.openstreetmap.cl/en and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_Latam_2015 Or responding to this message. Best Regards, Julio Costa Zambelli Fundación OpenStreetMap Chile julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl http://www.openstreetmap.cl/ Cel: +56(9)89981083 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What's your OSM story?
Maybe you can have a look at escada's diary, he posts all of our local 'mapper-of-the-month' interviews there in english: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/escada/diary/ Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-br] State of the Map LatAm 2015
Estimados, Hoy hemos anunciado la realización del primer State of the Map LatAm. El evento tendra lugar entre el 4 y el 6 de Septiembre, en Santiago de Chile. Como muchas personas solicitaron durante el State of the Map de Buenos Aires en Noviembre pasado, el evento se realizara el viernes, sábado y domingo inmediatamente anteriores al AbreLatam (7-8) y el ConDatos (9-10). De forma que puedan postular a las becas que ofrecen esos eventos. De todas maneras hemos abierto un proceso de becas para las entradas y alojamientos en Santiago, las cuales se financiaran con la ayuda de los auspiciadores de nuestra conferencia. Pueden obtener más información en http://sotm.openstreetmap.cl/ y en http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:State_of_the_Map_Latam_2015 Y también respondiendo a este mensaje. Saludos, Julio Costa Zambelli Fundación OpenStreetMap Chile julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl http://www.openstreetmap.cl/ Cel: +56(9)89981083 ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Wallonie picarde à vélo / ODBL compatible ?
On 2015-05-29 15:50, Marc Gemis wrote : 2015-05-29 11:53 GMT+02:00 André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: BTW, using registered letters makes me laugh. One may claim that the envelope was empty. totally of topic, Not off topic. It was part of a reply to a remark that your usual incomplete quotation does not show. but the right way to do this is to only send the letter (folded and address on the same paper as the text) and not put it in an envelope. And how does that prevent someone to claim that he received an empty envelope? As I have received all my registered letters in an envelope, you should explain the whole world how to send registered letters correctly (while I am explaining that e-mail is better). Cheers André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [Talk-cz] Nove preklady wiki
Dne 29.5.2015 v 23:21 Martin Švec - OSM napsal(a): Ahoj, koukám do Osmose a co nevidím... Najednou se mu nelíbí moje noexit=no tagy. Po chvíli jsem našel, že v [1] byla hodnota noexit=no opravdu už dávno prohlášena za zastaralou, hmmm. Z diskuse na wiki není ten závěr tak jednoznačný, nicméně anglická verze [2] se o možnosti noexit=no taky nezmiňuje. Tušíte někdo kudy se dostávají pravidla do Osmose? Pokud je všeobecná shoda že noexit=no je zastaralé, měla by se upravit i česká wiki. A já se naučím používat jen fixme=continue :-) Commit na githubu: https://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/commit/faf16aebcb2f26e34be04f891504ad1bce02ebb3 A Trac je tady: http://trac.openstreetmap.fr/ticket/608 (bohužel většina je francouzky :-( ) Marián ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?
Andy wrote: For example, when processing OSM data for my own use I'll try and drop unsigned names and refs from roads (there's no point in saying turn left on Foo Street if Foo Street does not appear on the sign). I hope you've not deleted any of the data I added. Just because it doesn't have a sign doesn't mean it doesn't have a name. Approaches I've used to find out its name is to ask a local (usually retired, long standing members of the community are good for this) and researching via council files/public records. Removing names just because they are not on the ground is taking the rule too far and wastes the effort people have put it to the map. It is tagging for the routing engine - we should adopt another method to stop routing engines announcing turn left to xxx where xxx is unsigned. Example a signed:name=no tag. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-at] Public Transport Schema und Wien
Der Plattform Tag ist nicht so zwingend. Es geht auch ohne. Aber das mit der stop position mitten auf der Kreuzung ist mir auch aufgefallen (habe ich bei 65A, 9A, 13 A doch schon entschärft (denke ich)... Aber eine Stop position sollte dann halt wirklich da sein wo der Bus hält, und nicht als Mittelwert zwischen den Stationen. Werde das in Wien nun auch berücksichtigen. PS: In Wien sind die Bus-Halteräume bei Gelenkbuslinien 20Meter lang. Soll ich dann die Platform Linien ( wo es halt eine Plattform gibt) auch 20M lang machen? ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] ***SPAM*** Re: Autocariste, dépôt de bus, de train
Le 28 mai 2015 à 22:28, Éric Gillet gill3t.3ric+...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 28 mai 2015 11:49, Romain MEHUT romain.me...@gmail.com a écrit : A mon sens il parlait des noms donnés pour décrire quelque chose sans rapport avec un quelconque nom identifiable sur le terrain. Si cimetière municipal est bien le nom inscrit, alors oui il a tout à fait sa place pour le tag name. S'il y a marqué Poubelle sur une poubelle il faut lui donner un nom sur OSM ? C'est le problème : beaucoup n'ont pas l'air de percevoir la différence entre le nommage par terme générique d'un objet qui existe en masse indifférenciée et le nommage d'un objet unique existant par la volonté commune pour satisfaire des besoins collectifs. Pour l'exemple du cimetière, le nom est en effet probablement affiché, surement dû au fait qu'il est difficile de déterminer ce qui est à l'intérieur des murs les entourant en général (en tout cas sans connaître le lieu au préalable). J'ai précisé que l'affichage était probable et j'ajoute que, s'il est affiché cimetière de nom de la commune,, ce n'est pas une redondance malheureuse, mais un fait social à reproduire tel quel. Dans la précédente discussion sur ce thème, j'avais dit qu'un équipement communal non nommé sur le terrain devait l'être en s'informant auprès de la mairie qui lui donne, nécessairement, un nom banal ou non dans ses dossiers. Si la mairie est référente ultime pour les noms de voie, elle l'est tout autant pour ses équipements. Si le nom permet de distinguer ce cimetière par rapport aux autres cimetières, alors oui il est intéressant de le mentionner. Cimetière municipal ne semble pas du tout être unique, et ajouter le nom de la ville également puisque sa position géographique à l'intérieur d'une limite administrative permet de l'obtenir. En France, presque tous les cimetières sont municipaux, ce n'est pas parce que la gestion est différente de certains autres pays, qu'il faut inventer une règle dérogatoire. Christian R.___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [Talk-at] Public Transport Schema und Wien
On 29.05.2015 23:28, Stefan Tauner wrote: Wer den physischen Teil auf die Plattform reduziert, soll sich mal bewusst machen, dass es außerorts oft gar keine Plattform gibt. Ach, da warten die Leuten also nirgendwo sondern beamen sich direkt in die Fahrzeuge? Sie warten dort nicht auf einer Plattform, sondern auf der Straße oder am Bankett. -- Friedrich K. Volkmann http://www.volki.at/ Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-de] waterway=riverbank
natural=water + water=* erlaubt generell auch das undifferenzierte Tagging von Wasserflächen, was auch in über 90 Prozent der Fälle so gemacht wird - siehe http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=water#combinations Wenn der top tag schon source=* ist, dann kann man eigentlich fast schon davon ausgehen, dass da ein Haufen Importe drin sind wo einfach nur natural=water für alles hergenommen wurde. Zudem vermute ich ist da auch ein haufen tagging für den Renderer drin. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [OSM-talk] Neat use of OpenStreetMap
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 12:13:31AM +0200, Robert Kaiser wrote: Making your movements available publicly is a privacy invasion, no matter if it's legal or not. A lot of privacy invasions are legal (like the NSA recording all European Internet traffic when it enters the USA), but that doesn't make them good or right. I dont think this is legal by European standards ;) Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de We need to self-defense - GnuPG/PGP enable your email today! signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-at] Public Transport Schema und Wien
On Fri, 29 May 2015 23:53:01 +0200 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote: On 29.05.2015 23:28, Stefan Tauner wrote: Wer den physischen Teil auf die Plattform reduziert, soll sich mal bewusst machen, dass es außerorts oft gar keine Plattform gibt. Ach, da warten die Leuten also nirgendwo sondern beamen sich direkt in die Fahrzeuge? Sie warten dort nicht auf einer Plattform, sondern auf der Straße oder am Bankett. Also auf einer Plattform - denn der Tag ist genau so definiert. -- Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
