At 4:16 PM 09/24/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>You're completely missing the point.
>
>Text comes first, before any music is written.
Often true, though not always.
>Text drives the whole compositional process.
>
> [...]
>Finale can simply not be fixed in this regard, and, ultimately, I'm
>not su
At 4:12 PM 09/24/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
[answering me]
>> I never use the Auto Update checkbox. I'm still not clear what it is that
>> bothers you about click-assignment without Auto Update, but I don't really
>> need to know. The program should be designed so that you can work with
>> Type-i
At 1:30 AM 09/24/02, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
[answering me]
>> But, as John Blane correctly pointed out, deleting in Adjust
>> Syllables is safer than either.
>
>True, but I had not been aware this was an option until very recently, and
>have not
>had the time to gain any experience with it.
I
On 23 Sep 2002 at 20:38, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> I've been thinking a lot about this lately, and I now believe this can be
> achieved WITHOUT destroying the power or the continuity of the system that
> exists. The model is Automatic Music Spacing and Automatic Update Layout.
> That is, there is a fu
On 23 Sep 2002 at 20:38, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> At 3:48 PM 09/23/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >No. I mean the AUTO UPDATE checkbox in the click assignment dialog. I
> >assume it's intended to update the score in the background, but it is
> >not reliable. It seems to work for the first syllable o
At 6:45 PM -0500 9/23/02, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>
> > Hmm, doing the lyrics last might be an example of changing one's work
>> habits to suit the computer. Often when I am composing to a given set
>> of lyrics, I set the lyrics in the measures first, then the rhyt
At 7:49 PM 09/23/02, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>If one deletes the same syllables in "edit lyrics" mode,
>OTH, all of the syllables in the balance of the string visible in the
>"edit lyrics"
>window
>get shifted to the left by the same number of places as the number of syllables
>deleted, even when
At 3:48 PM 09/23/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>No. I mean the AUTO UPDATE checkbox in the click assignment dialog. I
>assume it's intended to update the score in the background, but it is
>not reliable. It seems to work for the first syllable of a measure,
>and then the lyrics go blank for the rest
At 12:00 PM 09/23/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>You have got to be kidding! After all of the verbage on this subject and you
>still draw this conclusion? Deleting almost anything in type-in-score is not
>at all "safer" or recommended. God help us if David Fenton follows *this*
>advice and we have
At 7:28 AM 09/23/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
[answering Christopher BJ Smith]
>>That's one more reason why I still compose and arrange with pencil
>>and paper, and only go to Finale afterwards to make it look nice.
>
>You're right. I realize that I'm uncomfortable composing music with text in
I should have been more precise. Where I wrote
the syllables in the balance of the string visible in the "edit lyrics"
window
get shifted to the left two places, even when this takes the first
syllable of
one staff and attaches it to some note on the preceding staff.
I should have written "
Mark wrote:
> << In fact, it seems to me that if you've got a syllable you want to delete,
> then deleting it in type-in-score is safer than the alternatives. >>
to which John rejoined
> You have got to be kidding! After all of the verbage on this subject and you
> still draw this conclusion?
Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
> At 8:06 PM -0400 9/22/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >
> >This is straight-out arranging, happening while I do the inputting.
> >Yes, I do the lyrics last, naturally.
>
> Hmm, doing the lyrics last might be an example of changing one's work
> habits to suit the comp
At 3:48 PM -0400 9/23/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
>Try this:
>
>Create a new document, and input 4 quarter notes.
>
>With TYPE IN SCORE, put in Hal-le-lu-jah as the lyrics
>
>Now, go to the le syllable, and change it to "le,".
>
>Then change the "lu" to "Deutsch-" and the "jah" to "land."
>
>You'
On 23 Sep 2002 at 0:44, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> At 8:06 PM 09/22/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >But I feel *very* uncomfortable with click assigning the lyrics. One
> >problem is the size of the dialog and the fact that it is tough to
> >tell where you are in repetitive text. But I discovered another
In a message dated 9/23/02 3:01:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< In fact, it seems to me that if you've got a syllable you want to delete,
then deleting it in type-in-score is safer than the alternatives. >>
You have got to be kidding! After all of the verbage on this subject and you
still
Robert Patterson wrote:
>I actually prefer the mirrored lyrics approach, but it requires
>forethought and discipline. Generally, unless you are truly writing
>a multiverse piece, such as a hymn, you should put all your lyrics
>in a single verse. This avoids the baseline headaches that others
>
At 06:38 AM 9/23/02 -0400, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>That's one more reason why I still compose and arrange with pencil
>and paper, and only go to Finale afterwards to make it look nice.
You're right. I realize that I'm uncomfortable composing music with text in
Finale, although I've composed
At 09/22/2002 07:27 PM, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>Before this discussion I hadn't realized that so many other users are
>accustomed to entering lyrics in a way so completely different from mine.
As an occasional user, but often using lyrics:
I had a lot of problems using type in score. So I read t
>
> At 8:18 AM 09/21/02, Bernard Savoie wrote:
>
>> I second Linda's comment. I've also been a long-time user [...]
>> But once I
>> understood the way the lyrics tool works I have seldom had any problems,
>> [...] But you have to be aware of the pitfalls which you can easily fall
>> into.
>
>
At 8:06 PM -0400 9/22/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
>This is straight-out arranging, happening while I do the inputting.
>Yes, I do the lyrics last, naturally.
Hmm, doing the lyrics last might be an example of changing one's work
habits to suit the computer. Often when I am composing to a given
At 8:06 PM 09/22/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>I had a score that printed out correctly, but I made the mistake of
>looking at the source text in EDIT LYRICS and saw a lot of excess
>hyphens, many of them at the *beginning* of syllables. So I was
>deleting a few and seeing what happened. The first
On 22 Sep 2002 at 15:27, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> At 4:11 PM 09/22/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >[...] a large part of my dismay came from your recommendation,
> >Mark, that I clear all lyrics and start over. That Draconian solution
> >was not warranted at all, and you would be better not to offer
At 4:11 PM 09/22/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>[...] a large part of my dismay came from your recommendation,
>Mark, that I clear all lyrics and start over. That Draconian solution
>was not warranted at all, and you would be better not to offer it so
>soon in such a troubleshooting process. My hyst
On 22 Sep 2002 at 4:05, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> At 8:18 AM 09/21/02, Bernard Savoie wrote:
>
> >I second Linda's comment. I've also been a long-time user [...]
> > But once I
> >understood the way the lyrics tool works I have seldom had any problems,
> > [...] But you have to be aware of the pitfa
At 8:18 AM 09/21/02, Bernard Savoie wrote:
>I second Linda's comment. I've also been a long-time user [...]
> But once I
>understood the way the lyrics tool works I have seldom had any problems,
> [...] But you have to be aware of the pitfalls which you can easily fall
>into.
Actually, I think
On Friday, Sep 20, 2002, at 17:47 US/Pacific, Christopher BJ Smith
wrote:
> But my question was aimed at the intended implementation of hyphens
> that Dennis was proposing. I'm familiar with sound editing programs
> such as Pro Tools and Cubase Audio, so I know approximately about the
> mappi
At 2:01 AM -0800 9/21/02, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>
>
>To me that feels very roundabout and geeky. On the other hand, I don't
>particularly mind typing out "Kyrie eleison, eleison, eleison! Kyrie
>eleison, eleison! Christe eleison, eleison, eleison, eleison, eleison!
>Christe eleison! Kyrie eleison, e
> From: Linda Worsley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Lyrics Freakout
>
>
> I've been following this thread for quite a while now, with amazement:
>
> A lot of what I put into Finale, uses lyrics (lots of songs, choral
> works-- multiple verse
At 8:47 PM 09/20/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>I'm on Mac, but the only thing your solution does is make the hyphen
>(which should be butt up against the first syllable on its right
>side) drift over to halfway between the first syllable and the
>opt-space. Also, the next note after the open-
At 3:52 PM -0800 9/20/02, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>At 6:52 AM 09/20/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>
>>What if you are in a first ending, and the lyric is "a-bout" with the
>>first syllable on the last note of the first ending? Is the hyphen
>>extended to the first syllable of the second ending, which
At 4:11 PM 09/20/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>You have hit on it, but only halfway. You type it in once as you said
>at the end (I include the carriage returns too, for legibility), copy
>it into four different verses, then park your hand [...]
>
> [...] I prefer the
>larger Edit Lyrics windo
At 2:27 PM 09/20/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>The main problem here is that in the only mode in which you can *see*
>the redundant separators, you can't tell where they are *used*.
The redundant separators are never used. That's why I call them "redundant".
>So,
>you can't really know if they ar
At 2:18 PM 09/20/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>I don't see how that furthers anything whatsoever. It isn't poetry,
>so there are no natural line breaks, and since there's repetition of
>every single word, many times each, there is no comprehensibility to
>it.
>
>In short, it has meaning and compreh
At 6:52 AM 09/20/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>What if you are in a first ending, and the lyric is "a-bout" with the
>first syllable on the last note of the first ending? Is the hyphen
>extended to the first syllable of the second ending, which might not
>need a hyphen? What if there is no voc
[cc to Coda]
>Am I the only person on Finalelist who has almost NO trouble using
>Finale's lyric entry system?
No.
I joined this thread because I have a geeky interest in how the data
behaves, and because I thought (incorrectly, perhaps...) that I might be
able help some others who were having
At 5:02 AM 09/20/02, Dennis W. Manasco wrote:
> I am sure that this is all excellent advice. I will study it and try
>to improve my experience with lyrics by using it.
>
>However, let me cynically reply with,
>
>dwm's "Abridged Version of MDL's FINALE LYRICS FOR IMBECILES"
Obviously, it was lar
At 03:10 PM 9/20/02 -0400, you wrote:
>What was the best thing *before* sliced bread?
>Semantically speaking, these two blocks of text are equivalent:
[snip]
Too much redundant text. You don't need it. The whole text pool is:
Kyrie eleison
Christe eleison
(The second "eleison" is not really
At 2:18 PM -0400 9/20/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 19 Sep 2002 at 19:49, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>> At 6:30 PM 09/19/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
>[]
>
>> >You're lapsing into Mac-speak -- I have no idea what you mean by
>> >OPTION-CLICK. I understand that it's one of the shift keys, but it is
>>
On 20 Sep 2002 at 12:00, Ronald M. Krentzman wrote:
> The only problems I've had are with word extensions, and even those
> > are pretty easy to solve. Am I missing something?
> >
> > Linda Worsley
>
> No.
Had I not run into problems with the copying having created a mirror
so that I screwed
On 20 Sep 2002 at 10:42, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> And now to those folks who resisted it, nondestructive editing is the best
> thing since sliced bread (a phrase that had no meaning to me until we
> started buying local bread with hard crusts).
This phrase has always prompted me to ask:
Wh
On 20 Sep 2002 at 10:42, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> Modern audio and especially video editing belong to the class of "NLE" --
> non-linear editing. A typical film montage during an action scene is an
> example -- many angles and zooms and motions and cutaways and sound and
> effects and voices
On 20 Sep 2002 at 10:42, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> GUI thumbwheels. Maybe they have different names on Macs -- for example, in
> the staff dialog, you can go from one staff to the other using the droplist
> or the thumbwheel to the right of the droplist. Thumbwheel up creates a new
> text poo
On 20 Sep 2002 at 10:42, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> To digress to this ownership thing: The ownership of the slur was one of
> the best moves Finale ever made, attaching as it does to two objects. And
> it shows what could be done for all objects that are not a fixed size.
> Fixed size objects
On 19 Sep 2002 at 20:53, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> I still don't see what's so logical or intuitive about having all the text
> in a single stream. How does the first word the alto sings follow naturally
> after the last word the soprano sings?
I don't think that is logical, either -- it is the neces
On 19 Sep 2002 at 20:53, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> At 9:18 PM 09/19/02, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>
> >I don't enter consecutive hyphens as much anymore either, but they get
> >generated in
> >"type into score" mode when one has [...]
> >[...] the original separators persist, so that an examination of
On 19 Sep 2002 at 19:49, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> At 6:30 PM 09/19/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
[]
> >You're lapsing into Mac-speak -- I have no idea what you mean by
> >OPTION-CLICK. I understand that it's one of the shift keys, but it is
> >peculiar to the Mac, and I don't know what it maps to on Wi
The only problems I've had are with word extensions, and even those
> are pretty easy to solve. Am I missing something?
>
> Linda Worsley
No.
Ronald M. Krentzman
R&M Music Preparation
___
Finale mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.shsu.edu/m
I've been following this thread for quite a while now, with amazement:
A lot of what I put into Finale, uses lyrics (lots of songs, choral
works-- multiple verses, multiple endings, various arcane
configurations) and ...
Am I the only person on Finalelist who has almost NO trouble using
Fina
I have to edit a video due Wednesday morning, so this will probably be my
last post until next week -- I'll do my best! I'm only pursuing this
because the lyrics portion of Finale has flummoxed many people, not just on
this list. My composer colleague David goes into red-faced rages over it --
and
At 12:19 AM -0400 9/20/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>At 07:49 PM 9/19/02 -0800, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>
>>Obviously I'm just not understanding this at all. Let's back up. If a note
>>has a syllable and that syllable has a hyphen, how does the program know
>>where to draw the hyphen? Currently it
At 12:16 pm -0800 9/19/02, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>MDL's "FINALE LYRICS FOR IMBECILES"
>
>1. <...>Don't use the fourth triangle.
>
>2. If you use Mass Copy <..>
>
>3. Never use Type-in-Score. <...>
>
>4. In the Edit Lyrics box, never delete anything, and never insert
>anything. <...>
Mark,
I
At 12:19 AM 09/20/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>Forget how Finale's lyrics work now. Just drop the concept.
OK.
> In what I'm
>proposing, no 'understanding' would be needed. A hyphen or space would just
>be a marker processed by the display system, and could just as easily be
>moused in plac
At 5:04 PM -0400 9/19/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
>I can't see using click assignment for any large project. The user
>interface is hideous, with a non-resizable window and insufficient
>feedback about where you are in the text stream, and what is
>connected to what. I still don't know how to un-
At 07:49 PM 9/19/02 -0800, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>Proper behavior of hyphens relies on a correct understanding by Finale of
>what the "next" syllable should be.
Forget how Finale's lyrics work now. Just drop the concept. In what I'm
proposing, no 'understanding' would be needed. A hyphen or space wo
At 9:18 PM 09/19/02, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>I don't enter consecutive hyphens as much anymore either, but they get
>generated in
>"type into score" mode when one has [...]
>[...] the original separators persist, so that an examination of the
>lyrics block shows something on the order of "Hal -
At 8:47 PM 09/19/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>That's not a viable debate tactic with me -- don't impute to me
>arguments I have no made.
OK, but I'm not viewing this as a tactical debate. I'm participating
because I think we're discussing interesting issue, not to be the winner in
a debate.
>Th
At 6:30 PM 09/19/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>> If I were setting Mozart's Requiem, I'd enter the lyrics in their entirety,
>> repeats and all (using copy-and-paste within the Edit Lyrics window where
>> appropriate), then click-assign them all at once with option-click and
>> shift as necessary.
At 7:29 PM 09/19/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>I'm not following. Type in score breaks at spaces and hyphens. That is how
>it understands new syllables, no? You tell it. Can you re-ask this; I'm
>really not understanding the question you're posing. (Keep in mind I'm
>answering this question ba
At 5:49 PM 09/19/02, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>Is this "plug-in" territory? I don't yet know enough about programming to
>know for
>sure, but it seems logical that a plug in could examine a text block, list
>all of
>the assignments between a given lyric syllable and various lines, and make
>it si
I wrote, in part:
>
>
> >Now, "undo" will correct the lyric displacement that occurs in steps 6 and
> >10, but I
> >submit that since lyric displacement does not happen on type into score,
> >it should
> >not happen after "edit lyric", either. The results of inserting or deleting
> >syllables i
At 5:09 PM -0400 9/19/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 18 Sep 2002 at 17:01, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>
>> (You
>> know about opt-click, right? This assigns ALL the syllables in the
>> edit window to the notes automatically, from the first note you click
>> until it encounters an empty measur
At 6:06 PM -0400 9/19/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
>
>But you leave out the most important part: Finale makes it extremely
>difficult to undo the unintended errors.
THis is a bit of a change of subject, but speaking of unintended
behaviours screwing up one's scores, how about the repeat tool?
On 19 Sep 2002 at 17:04, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> In various posts, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >Historically speaking, yes. But before I upgraded to WinFin2003, [...]
>
> Oh, so you're in Fin 2003 now. Does that mean it has changed back?? In
> MacFin2002, if I use type-in-score to enter lyrics out
At 4:44 PM 09/19/02, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>Now, "undo" will correct the lyric displacement that occurs in steps 6 and
>10, but I
>submit that since lyric displacement does not happen on type into score,
>it should
>not happen after "edit lyric", either. The results of inserting or deleting
>s
In various posts, David W. Fenton wrote:
>Historically speaking, yes. But before I upgraded to WinFin2003, [...]
Oh, so you're in Fin 2003 now. Does that mean it has changed back?? In
MacFin2002, if I use type-in-score to enter lyrics out of order, but within
a single staff and verse, Finale wi
At 02:06 PM 9/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>- I assume type-in-score still exists. (And if it doesn't, I'm sure many
>will object.) When you use type-in-score to create a lyric, how does Finale
>decide where in the text to create the new syllable? Does it add it to the
>end of the text, or does it inse
"David W. Fenton" wrote, in part:
> The system is designed around an assumption that the default and most
> desirable method for lyrics entry is to enter the words used one
> time, and then assign them all multiple times.
I'm not sure that that is the default assumption; I'd rather suspect tha
"David W. Fenton" wrote:
> Am I right in guessing that, when using TYPE IN SCORE, the EDIT
> LYRICS window is populated in the order in which you enter the
> lyrics, rather than in any logical order related to the score layout?
> That is, if the first thing you enter typing into the score is th
On 19 Sep 2002 at 15:09, Mark D. Lew wrote [quoting me]
[]
> >Knowing what I know now, I don't know if I'd try typing in the lyrics
> >and then click assigning. I understand the logic there, but the CLICK
> >ASSIGNMENT window has got to be the most user unfriendly window I've
> >ever seen -- the
On 19 Sep 2002 at 17:10, Thomas Schaller wrote:
> David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >> There is no option of an "option". The other option would be text
> >> expressions,
> >> or else to glom on some new kind of lyric that is essentially a text
> >> expression.
> >
> > When copying a block of music, a
On 19 Sep 2002 at 16:20, Thomas Schaller wrote:
> David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> > Anyway, on to my solution:
> >
> > I took someone's advice to insert and symbols in the lyrics
> > via TYPE IN SCORE so that I could find them in the EDIT LYRICS
> > window. What I saw was a jumble of lyric
On 19 Sep 2002 at 14:06, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> In my experience, it's type in score that has all the craziness and
> invisible traps. That's what got David into trouble, for instance. His
> problem began when he edited the copied lyrics with type in score, before
> he ever even looked at the Edit
>On 18 Sep 2002 at 8:52, Thomas Schaller wrote:
>Well, I've rescued the score, and fixed all the problems.
Glad to hear it.
>I guess I was lucky that, for whatever reason, the lyrics for the top
>line of my score (the line that was messed) were, largely, the last
>thing that I entered. In the E
On 19 Sep 2002 at 12:16, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> At 4:49 AM 09/19/02, Dennis W. Manasco wrote:
>
> >That is the most absurd part of the problem: That an "error in
> >judgement" in manipulating lyrics can cause (seemingly) irreparable
> >damage to your file. A database that allows itself to be
> >ir
On 19 Sep 2002 at 7:13, Robert Patterson wrote:
> On Thu, 19 September 2002, "Dennis W. Manasco" wrote:
>
> > A database that allows itself to be
> > irretrievably corrupted through reasonable user actions is a pretty
> > fragile database.
>
> I agree with this statement, but I do not agree t
On 19 Sep 2002 at 0:42, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> I can't tell if your objection is only to the interface and its unexpected
> behavior, or to the basic concept of having lyrics be assignments to a
> separate, ordered list of items. If it's the latter you object to, then I
> would very much like to kn
> At 9:33 AM 09/18/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >However correct you may be as the voice of experience, that is the
> >most ludicrous advice I've ever heard. [...]
> >
> >That's a really serious indictment of the stability of the Finale
> >file format.
>
> First of all, David, welcome to the
Robert Patterson wrote:
> On Thu, 19 September 2002, "Dennis W. Manasco" wrote:
>
> > A database that allows itself to be
> > irretrievably corrupted through reasonable user actions is a pretty
> > fragile database.
>
> I agree with this statement, but I do not agree that Finale's lyrics
> impl
David W. Fenton wrote:
> What I understand now is that the lyrics subsystem is designed around
> a number of assumptions about the way lyrics ought to work:
>
> 1. all voices will sing exactly the same lyrics at one time or the
> other.
>
> 2. the punctuation and capitalization of the lyrics in
David W. Fenton wrote:
> Anyway, on to my solution:
>
> I took someone's advice to insert and symbols in the lyrics
> via TYPE IN SCORE so that I could find them in the EDIT LYRICS
> window. What I saw was a jumble of lyrics, with parts of one word
> stuck in the middle of other words.
On 18 Sep 2002 at 17:08, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
> At 9:33 AM -0400 9/18/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >
> >Oh, bollocks. This is an instance where Finale is fundamentally
> >broken. The default behavior of the copy is one issue alone, an ill-
> >chosen default with no sensible alternative. Bu
On 18 Sep 2002 at 17:01, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
> (You
> know about opt-click, right? This assigns ALL the syllables in the
> edit window to the notes automatically, from the first note you click
> until it encounters an empty measure or runs out of lyrics. Very
> cool. You can shift rig
[CC to Coda. If replying to all, consider trimming headers.]
At 7:13 AM 09/19/02, Robert Patterson wrote:
>Someone said that the implementation is geeky. It *is* geeky, but (as Mark Lew
>eloquently stated) it is very powerful. Sometimes geeky is okay, even if it
>requires a little more thought t
At 8:47 AM 09/19/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>Certainly, and there are systems that work that way. But pitches have a
>much stronger linkage in all directions than words. And I think that what
>you're looking for is perfectly achievable if text still behaved like text,
>however the program wo
On 18 Sep 2002 at 7:02, Robert Patterson wrote:
> On Wed, 18 September 2002, "David W. Fenton" wrote:
>
> >
> > Those are all indications of an ill-thought-out UI and bugs in the
> > implementation.
>
> David, David. This is Finale we are talking about. Aren't you one of its
> long-term users
On 18 Sep 2002 at 8:52, Thomas Schaller wrote:
> David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> > On 17 Sep 2002 at 19:34, Thomas Schaller wrote:
> >> first of all - about the problem of having screwed up your original lyrics:
> >> I'm afraid that those lyrics are no good anymore - depending on how much you
> >> ch
At 4:49 AM 09/19/02, Dennis W. Manasco wrote:
>That is the most absurd part of the problem: That an "error in
>judgement" in manipulating lyrics can cause (seemingly) irreparable
>damage to your file. A database that allows itself to be
>irretrievably corrupted through reasonable user actions is
On Thu, 19 September 2002, "Dennis W. Manasco" wrote:
> A database that allows itself to be
> irretrievably corrupted through reasonable user actions is a pretty
> fragile database.
I agree with this statement, but I do not agree that Finale's lyrics
implementation conforms to it. It is true t
At 12:42 AM 9/19/02 -0800, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>OK, but couldn't the same be said about pretty much any feature? Couldn't
>you say, for example, that speedy entry is an awkward and counterintuitive
>system and the fact that you and I get good results out of it is evidence
>only our our flexibility
At 7:19 pm -0400 9/18/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>I'm gonna defend David on this one, because although I've used
>Finale for nearly 11 years, I despise using lyrics and find the
>whole system distasteful and regressive.
Thank you Dennis for standing up to say this. I seldom use lyrics
wi
At 7:19 PM 09/18/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>When lyrics are not considered simple straight text as the default state,
>but rather some sort of 'objects', then you're in geek mode. I think that's
>just not acceptable behavior, and that anyone has adapted to it is only a
>statement of their f
At 03:58 PM 9/18/02 -0800, Mark D. Lew wrote:
>If it seems like I'm defensive of the system, it's because I'm a little
>miffed to see a person who, by his own admission, a week ago had no idea
>how lyrics work, and by the evidence of his posts still doesn't really
>understand it, nevertheless has
At 9:33 AM 09/18/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>However correct you may be as the voice of experience, that is the
>most ludicrous advice I've ever heard. [...]
>
>That's a really serious indictment of the stability of the Finale
>file format.
First of all, David, welcome to the club. Those of us
At 9:08 AM -0400 9/18/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 17 Sep 2002 at 19:34, Thomas Schaller wrote:
>> first of all - about the problem of having screwed up your original lyrics:
>> I'm afraid that those lyrics are no good anymore - depending on how much you
>> changed in the copied section you m
At 9:33 AM -0400 9/18/02, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
>Oh, bollocks. This is an instance where Finale is fundamentally
>broken. The default behavior of the copy is one issue alone, an ill-
>chosen default with no sensible alternative. But the real issue is
>that the process is not *reversible*, that
On Tuesday, Sep 17, 2002, at 05:42 US/Pacific, David W. Fenton wrote:
Sorry I haven't been following this thread closely, but if there are
messed up lyrics you can export all lyrics to a text file with the
"Extract Lyrics" plugin and see what's going on. There is a labeling
option which can be
On Tue, 17 September 2002, Mark D. Lew wrote:
> Still, don't you run into
> trouble with capitalization that way?
I believe "Hallelujah!" always appears in Handel's text underlay both
capitalized and with a "!", although it has been a while since I looked.
Obviously, if it appeared differently,
On Wed, 18 September 2002, "David W. Fenton" wrote:
>
> Those are all indications of an ill-thought-out UI and bugs in the
> implementation.
David, David. This is Finale we are talking about. Aren't you one of its
long-term users? Ill-thought-out UI and bugs in implementation have historically
David W. Fenton wrote:
>>> When I choose EDIT LYRICS, this text is not even there!
>>
>> It's in there somewhere, probably a duplicate of a syllable you're using
>> elsewhere. If you really want to find it, use the type in score function to
>> change it to something ridiculously large and watch
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