subject:"\[AFMUG\] Cybertruck"

Yeah, nobody normally charges on a 120v outlet. A 20 amp 240v outlet would
be probably be fine for most people, but unless you almost never drive more
than about 40 miles a day, a standard 120v outlet isn't going to cut it...

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:18 PM Robert Andrews  wrote:

> I don't know anyone, and there are a boatload of Teslas in Reno now,
> that just charges at 20 amp outlet rates.   50 amp outlet is a no
> brainer.   To the point that new houses going up are wiring the garages
> with 50 amp outlets as a sales feature here.
>
> On 11/30/2019 12:40 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators
> > will only charge at 5 miles per hour.
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
> > mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at
> >> 400 amps it does not take long to fill the batts.
> >> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> >> You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per
> >> hour.
> >> So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to
> >> wait with the generator running.
> >>
> >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >>
> >>> What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of
> >>> nowhere?  Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you
> >>> charge it from a typical portable generator?  If you call a tow
> >>> service, do they have fast chargers on their trucks?
> >>>
> >>> Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I
> >>> don’t drive an EV so I don’t know.
> >>>
> >>> Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a
> >>> charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas.
> >>>
> >>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> >>>
> >>> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you
> >>> from 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and
> >>> hard acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles
> >>> worth of fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Matt,
> >>>
> >>> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your
> >>> gas vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal
> >>> driving with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's
> >>> below 30, then again when you have a trailer attached, then again
> >>> by pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.
> >>>
> >>> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric
> vehicles.
> >>>
> >>> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my
> >>> Tesla so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and
> >>> just going into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the
> >>> end of the day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less
> >>> efficient than a gas car in the same driving conditions.
> >>>
> >>> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their
> >>> gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all
> >>> the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not
> >>> a Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's
> >>> department and they all have stories of cars running out of gas
> >>> during highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on
> >>> their cars.
> >>>
> >>> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you
> >>> schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn
> >>> something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers
> >>> in the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
> >>> they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there will be
> >>> zer

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Ken Hohhof

Is anyone else hearing a Cybertruck song in your head, based on the
Spiderman them song?  (Or Spiderpig if you're a Simpsons fan)

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 5:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

It won't be long now that AAA loads their vehicles with battery packs 
and recharge them at night.   It's called market advantage.   They could 
easily load up a couple of packs that would give 15 miles of range in
minutes and line up a lot more customers.

On 11/30/2019 01:07 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 11/30/19 12:59 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?
> 
> 
> NDOT sponsors a Freeway Service Patrol that among other things will 
> give people gas to safely get off the freeway and to the nearest gas
station.
> I see it happen often enough. I mean, I know people who can only 
> afford to put like $5 or $10 worth each time they can afford to visit 
> a gas station. But these are also people who can't afford an EV.
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

It won't be long now that AAA loads their vehicles with battery packs 
and recharge them at night.   It's called market advantage.   They could 
easily load up a couple of packs that would give 15 miles of range in 
minutes and line up a lot more customers.


On 11/30/2019 01:07 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 11/30/19 12:59 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?



NDOT sponsors a Freeway Service Patrol that among other things will give 
people gas to safely get off the freeway and to the nearest gas station. 
I see it happen often enough. I mean, I know people who can only afford 
to put like $5 or $10 worth each time they can afford to visit a gas 
station. But these are also people who can't afford an EV.




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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

It is 1000 lbs more than an F150, per people who analyzed the F150 vs. 
Tesla truck pulling fiasco...   But compare that to say a Ram 2500 
diesel and you are even in weight and comparable in capacity with the 
edge to Cybertruck still...


On 11/30/2019 10:44 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Are we talking about a car or a truck?  What does the Cybertruck weigh compared 
to a Tesla car, or to a standard pickup?  With the batteries and stainless 
steel body, it has to be really heavy.  That should affect mileage accelerating 
and going up hills, although I guess it could recapture some of that.

Maybe it's not fair to compare it to a pickup truck, that's not how people are 
going to use it.  You're not going to see Cybertrucks running around with 
ladder racks, or sheets of drywall in the bed.  There will be electric pickups 
from Ford/GM/RAM/Toyota for that, but they will look just like the gas or 
diesel versions.  I can see  businesses buying Cybertrucks and wrapping them 
with company logo or ads, kind of like they used to be with Hummers.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Right. But my point is you burn more power going up than you’ll regenerate 
going down.


On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:15 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. Slowing 
down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle mode, you hardly 
have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow down with regenerative 
braking.


bp



On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill I 
could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.

So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.


On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 miles on 
the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be charged.  
Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a different 
mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles with no fuel 
costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).

How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 180 
miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade for the first 
100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when Tesla was first 
doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in Roseville (basically 
the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past the summit) so the 
assumption was that the climb is hard and you would charge before going up the 
hill and charge again after the climb. Even just to go to Lake Tahoe requires 
crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around 4200').

I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal mountain driving would 
eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used except for flat driving to and from 
her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW DC of solar panels by the end of February and the 
way I see it is free "fuel" for the car. I don't care about saving the planet 
as much as I am interested in technology.

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaGVoB4Zn-Y

On 11/30/2019 08:21 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Out of curiosity, when going downhill or coasting, can these motors act 
as an alternator and charge the batteries?


On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:18 AM Steve Jones > wrote:


4mpg would still be 16 miles, not 8

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:01 AM Robert Andrews
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

I so beg to differ!!!  You take a _very_ high performance Police
engine
and put in the 4 gallons of gas to get a normal 50 mile range
and then
go start driving it at max performance and it will go to 4 MPG
so fast
your head will spin.   I drive a power wagon to get to mountain
tops and
it regularly goes from 100 miles range to 30 miles when I go
offroad.
The FIRST think I do when I need to do a serious day is make
sure it is
FULL.   It would be actually easier if I was able to leave it on
the
charger every night and know that I started out _every_ day with
500
miles on the estimated range.   Knowing that if I went to an
offroad
site I would actually only get 200 miles with heavy load ( and
would
actually be adding to the range going back downhill.   You _aren't_
going to get stuck at the TOP of a hill with an EV..

On 11/30/2019 07:34 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
 > There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take
you from
 > 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and
hard
 > acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles
worth of
 > fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
 >
 > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 > Matt,
 >
 > I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention
to your gas
 > vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal
driving
 > with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's
below 30,
 > then again when you have a trailer attached, then again by
 > pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.
 >
 > Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to
electric vehicles.
 >
 > Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on
my Tesla
 > so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and
just going
 > into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end
of the
 > day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less
efficient
 > than a gas car in the same driving conditions.
 >
 > You've obviously never heard of all the police chases
where their
 > gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It
happens all
 > the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because
it's not a
 > Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's
department
 > and they all have stories of cars running out of gas during
 > highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on
their cars.
 >
 > So instead of being a hater just because you can, why
don't you
 > schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you
can learn
 > something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of
drivers in
 > the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
 > they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there
will be zero
 > chance of running out of juice.
 >
 > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
 > mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 > That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault.
The car said
 > 50 miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because
electric
 > motors aren’t efficient at high speeds.
 >
 > On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl
 > mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> >> wrote:
 >
 >> For that police chase article, the department
actually updated
 >> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night
before from
 >> the officer who used it last. He forgot to plug

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


Less the number of miles traveled...

On 11/30/2019 08:18 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

4mpg would still be 16 miles, not 8

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:01 AM Robert Andrews > wrote:


I so beg to differ!!!  You take a _very_ high performance Police engine
and put in the 4 gallons of gas to get a normal 50 mile range and then
go start driving it at max performance and it will go to 4 MPG so fast
your head will spin.   I drive a power wagon to get to mountain tops
and
it regularly goes from 100 miles range to 30 miles when I go offroad.
The FIRST think I do when I need to do a serious day is make sure it is
FULL.   It would be actually easier if I was able to leave it on the
charger every night and know that I started out _every_ day with 500
miles on the estimated range.   Knowing that if I went to an offroad
site I would actually only get 200 miles with heavy load ( and would
actually be adding to the range going back downhill.   You _aren't_
going to get stuck at the TOP of a hill with an EV..

On 11/30/2019 07:34 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
 > There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you
from
 > 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
 > acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles
worth of
 > fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
 >
 > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 > Matt,
 >
 > I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to
your gas
 > vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving
 > with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's
below 30,
 > then again when you have a trailer attached, then again by
 > pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.
 >
 > Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric
vehicles.
 >
 > Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my
Tesla
 > so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and
just going
 > into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the
 > day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less efficient
 > than a gas car in the same driving conditions.
 >
 > You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their
 > gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all
 > the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's
not a
 > Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's
department
 > and they all have stories of cars running out of gas during
 > highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on
their cars.
 >
 > So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you
 > schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn
 > something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of
drivers in
 > the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
 > they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there will
be zero
 > chance of running out of juice.
 >
 > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
 > mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 > That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The
car said
 > 50 miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric
 > motors aren’t efficient at high speeds.
 >
 > On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl
 > mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>>
wrote:
 >
 >> For that police chase article, the department actually
updated
 >> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from
 >> the officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the
 >> car never started the shift with a full charge. Not the
Teslas
 >> fault.
 >>
 >>

https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
 >>
 >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
 >> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> >> wrote:
 >>
 >> Matt,
 >>
 >> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
 >> false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold
temps
 >> and higher loads as well.
 >>
 >> In the

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 11/30/19 1:09 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
I can charge at 32 amps on a 220v outlet, with the standard Tesla 
charger... that works out to something like 23 miles of range per hour, 
I think. That would only require like an 8kw generator, right?



Effectively yeah. Generators are rated assuming 0.8 power factor (kVA 
vs. kW).


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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Some people are just against change no matter what the benefits are. The
status quo is not always what's best and those who are so rigid they can't
change, are typically those who fall behind in business and in life.

Get with the times and succeed. Those who fight it will be left out ha

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 3:13 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> I used all the same arguments against electric vehicles that some of the
> people here are bringing up before I had one... Then I figured, what the
> heck, it's worth trying, and bought one... most of that stuff simply isn't
> a big deal, in reality.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 3:09 PM  wrote:
>
>> In my mind, this argument is similar to not wearing a seatbelt because
>> you might get trapped in a burning vehicle.  Technically true, but the
>> advantages far outweigh the disadvantages in my opinion.
>>
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 4:05 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>
>> I haven’t. But I have run out of gas maybe two or three times in my life
>> for one reason or another.
>>
>> Very easy for someone to bring me a 5 gallon jug of go juice and I’m off
>> for 150 miles.
>>
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:59 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> AAA generators are level 2 and some level 3.
>>
>> Level 2 40 amp 240 chargers can add 30 miles of driving range in an
>> hour.
>>
>> But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?
>> Never, because you manage it.  Electrics just take a different kind of
>> managing it.
>> I have never run out of charge except for the time I did it on purpose.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 3:40 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>
>> Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators
>> will only charge at 5 miles per hour.
>>
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400
>> amps it does not take long to fill the batts.
>>
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>
>> You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per
>> hour.
>>
>> So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to
>> wait with the generator running.
>>
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?
>> Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a
>> typical portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast
>> chargers on their trucks?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I
>> don’t drive an EV so I don’t know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a
>> charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50
>> miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
>> acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of
>> fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
>> vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no
>> load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when
>> you have a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police
>> chase and accelerating heavily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far
>> and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our
>> second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran
>> out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same
>> driving conditions.
&

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I used all the same arguments against electric vehicles that some of the
people here are bringing up before I had one... Then I figured, what the
heck, it's worth trying, and bought one... most of that stuff simply isn't
a big deal, in reality.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 3:09 PM  wrote:

> In my mind, this argument is similar to not wearing a seatbelt because you
> might get trapped in a burning vehicle.  Technically true, but the
> advantages far outweigh the disadvantages in my opinion.
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 4:05 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
> I haven’t. But I have run out of gas maybe two or three times in my life
> for one reason or another.
>
> Very easy for someone to bring me a 5 gallon jug of go juice and I’m off
> for 150 miles.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:59 PM,   wrote:
>
> AAA generators are level 2 and some level 3.
>
> Level 2 40 amp 240 chargers can add 30 miles of driving range in an hour.
>
> But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?
> Never, because you manage it.  Electrics just take a different kind of
> managing it.
> I have never run out of charge except for the time I did it on purpose.
>
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 3:40 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
> Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators
> will only charge at 5 miles per hour.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM,   wrote:
>
> Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400
> amps it does not take long to fill the batts.
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
> You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per
> hour.
>
> So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait
> with the generator running.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?
> Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a
> typical portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast
> chargers on their trucks?
>
>
>
> Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t
> drive an EV so I don’t know.
>
>
>
> Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a
> charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
>
>
> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50
> miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
> acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of
> fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
>
>
> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
> vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no
> load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when
> you have a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police
> chase and accelerating heavily.
>
>
>
> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
>
>
>
> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far
> and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our
> second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran
> out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same
> driving conditions.
>
>
>
> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas
> vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time
> actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've
> talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have
> stories of cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're
> putting way more load on their cars.
>
>
>
> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a
> test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say
> it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years
> with more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the
> time and there will be zero chance of running out of j

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I can charge at 32 amps on a 220v outlet, with the standard Tesla
charger... that works out to something like 23 miles of range per hour, I
think. That would only require like an 8kw generator, right?

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 3:00 PM  wrote:

> AAA generators are level 2 and some level 3.
>
> Level 2 40 amp 240 chargers can add 30 miles of driving range in an hour.
>
> But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?
> Never, because you manage it.  Electrics just take a different kind of
> managing it.
> I have never run out of charge except for the time I did it on purpose.
>
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 3:40 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
> Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators
> will only charge at 5 miles per hour.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM,   wrote:
>
> Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400
> amps it does not take long to fill the batts.
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
> You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per
> hour.
>
> So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait
> with the generator running.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?
> Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a
> typical portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast
> chargers on their trucks?
>
>
>
> Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t
> drive an EV so I don’t know.
>
>
>
> Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a
> charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
>
>
> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50
> miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
> acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of
> fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
>
>
> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
> vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no
> load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when
> you have a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police
> chase and accelerating heavily.
>
>
>
> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
>
>
>
> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far
> and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our
> second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran
> out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same
> driving conditions.
>
>
>
> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas
> vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time
> actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've
> talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have
> stories of cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're
> putting way more load on their cars.
>
>
>
> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a
> test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say
> it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years
> with more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the
> time and there will be zero chance of running out of juice.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles
> of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient
> at high speeds.
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said
> the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it
> last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a
> full charge. Not the Teslas fault.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

In my mind, this argument is similar to not wearing a seatbelt because you 
might get trapped in a burning vehicle.  Technically true, but the advantages 
far outweigh the disadvantages in my opinion.

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 4:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I haven’t. But I have run out of gas maybe two or three times in my life for 
one reason or another. 

Very easy for someone to bring me a 5 gallon jug of go juice and I’m off for 
150 miles. 

On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:59 PM,   wrote:

  AAA generators are level 2 and some level 3.

  Level 2 40 amp 240 chargers can add 30 miles of driving range in an hour.  

  But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?
  Never, because you manage it.  Electrics just take a different kind of 
managing it.
  I have never run out of charge except for the time I did it on purpose.

  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 3:40 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators will 
only charge at 5 miles per hour. 

  On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM,   wrote:

Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400 
amps it does not take long to fill the batts.  

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per 
hour. 

So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait 
with the generator running. 

On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?  
Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a 
typical portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast 
chargers on their trucks?

  Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I 
don’t drive an EV so I don’t know.

  Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a 
charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas.  

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50 
miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard acceleration. 
Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of fuel, but then that's 
not a simple increase in speed.

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  
wrote:

Matt,

I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas 
vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no load 
and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when you have 
a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police chase and 
accelerating heavily.

Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.

Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so 
far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our 
second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran out 
of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same driving 
conditions.

You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas 
vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time 
actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've talked 
with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have stories of 
cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're putting way 
more load on their cars.

So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you 
schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. 
I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 
years with more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all 
the time and there will be zero chance of running out of juice.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 
miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t 
efficient at high speeds. 

  On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:

For that police chase article, the department actually updated and 
said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it 
last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a full 
charge. Not the Teslas fault

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 11/30/19 12:59 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?



NDOT sponsors a Freeway Service Patrol that among other things will give 
people gas to safely get off the freeway and to the nearest gas station. 
I see it happen often enough. I mean, I know people who can only afford 
to put like $5 or $10 worth each time they can afford to visit a gas 
station. But these are also people who can't afford an EV.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I haven’t. But I have run out of gas maybe two or three times in my life for 
one reason or another. 

Very easy for someone to bring me a 5 gallon jug of go juice and I’m off for 
150 miles. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:59 PM,   wrote:
> 
> AAA generators are level 2 and some level 3.
>  
> Level 2 40 amp 240 chargers can add 30 miles of driving range in an hour. 
>  
> But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?
> Never, because you manage it.  Electrics just take a different kind of 
> managing it.
> I have never run out of charge except for the time I did it on purpose.
>  
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 3:40 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>  
> Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators will 
> only charge at 5 miles per hour.
> 
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM,   wrote:
>> 
>> Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400 
>> amps it does not take long to fill the batts. 
>>  
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>  
>> You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per hour.
>>  
>> So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait 
>> with the generator running.
>> 
>>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?  
>>> Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a 
>>> typical portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast 
>>> chargers on their trucks?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t 
>>> drive an EV so I don’t know.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a 
>>> charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50 
>>> miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard 
>>> acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of 
>>> fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Matt,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas 
>>> vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no 
>>> load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when 
>>> you have a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police 
>>> chase and accelerating heavily.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far 
>>> and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our 
>>> second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran 
>>> out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same 
>>> driving conditions.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas 
>>> vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time 
>>> actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've 
>>> talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have 
>>> stories of cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're 
>>> putting way more load on their cars.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a 
>>> test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say 
>>> it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years 
>>> with more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the 
>>> time and ther

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

AAA generators are level 2 and some level 3.

Level 2 40 amp 240 chargers can add 30 miles of driving range in an hour.  

But how many times have you called AAA because you ran out of gas?
Never, because you manage it.  Electrics just take a different kind of managing 
it.
I have never run out of charge except for the time I did it on purpose.


From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 3:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators will 
only charge at 5 miles per hour. 

On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM,   wrote:


  Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400 
amps it does not take long to fill the batts.  

  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per hour. 

  So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait 
with the generator running. 

  On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:


What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?  
Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a 
typical portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast 
chargers on their trucks?

 

Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t 
drive an EV so I don’t know.

 

Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a 
charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas.  

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50 
miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard acceleration. 
Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of fuel, but then that's 
not a simple increase in speed.

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

  Matt,

   

  I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas 
vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no load 
and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when you have 
a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police chase and 
accelerating heavily.

   

  Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.

   

  Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far 
and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our second 
winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran out of 
juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same driving 
conditions.

   

  You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas 
vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time 
actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've talked 
with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have stories of 
cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're putting way 
more load on their cars.

   

  So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule 
a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say it 
again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years with 
more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and 
there will be zero chance of running out of juice.

   

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 
miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t 
efficient at high speeds. 


On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:

  For that police chase article, the department actually updated and 
said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it 
last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a full 
charge. Not the Teslas fault.

   

  
https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/

   

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl  
wrote:

Matt,

 

You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg 
gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well. 

 

In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda 
accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we 
get about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it. 

 

I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Right. But a standard 120volt 20amp outlet like found on many generators will 
only charge at 5 miles per hour. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 3:19 PM,   wrote:
> 
> Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400 
> amps it does not take long to fill the batts. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>  
> You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per hour. 
>  
> So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait 
> with the generator running.
> 
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?  
>> Let’s say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a 
>> typical portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast 
>> chargers on their trucks?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t 
>> drive an EV so I don’t know.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a 
>> charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
>> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50 
>> miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard acceleration. 
>> Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of fuel, but then 
>> that's not a simple increase in speed.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:
>> 
>> Matt,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas vehicle 
>> while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no load and 
>> temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when you have 
>> a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police chase and 
>> accelerating heavily.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far 
>> and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our 
>> second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran 
>> out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same 
>> driving conditions.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas 
>> vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time 
>> actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've 
>> talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have 
>> stories of cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're 
>> putting way more load on their cars.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a 
>> test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say it 
>> again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years with 
>> more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time 
>> and there will be zero chance of running out of juice.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles of 
>> range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient at 
>> high speeds.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>> 
>> For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said the 
>> car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it last. 
>> He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a full 
>> charge. Not the Teslas fault.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:
>> 
>> Matt,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets 
>> worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well.
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Leaf too.  I almost never hit the actual brake pedal.  That with adaptive 
cruise control I don’t even hit the throttle that much either.

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 1:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Mathew, 

A recent update just enabled it on all Model 3's and Raven version of the S and 
X. It's called holding mode and will use regen all the way to 0, then put the 
brake hold on until you accelerate again. It's friggin sweet and truly allows 
me to barely use the brake pedal at all anymore.

https://tesletter.com/whats-in-tesla-software-update-2019-36-1/  

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 12:30 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  Interesting... the regenerative braking let's go at around 5mph on my Model 
S. I guess the 3/newer cars must be different, because I can't come to a 
complete stop without using the brakes. 

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:11 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because I 
rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically only 
drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use regen on 
the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a brake hold 
until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used for quick or 
emergency stops. 

So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole way 
down and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back because 
nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas vehicle when you 
slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as long as the engine is 
running.

And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the 
article literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just as 
in a gas car, the estimate is not perfect.

Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life will 
be good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea. It's easier 
to get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a 220v outlet to 
charge faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere without telling me 
I need to charge in order to reach the destination. It's pretty idiot proof as 
it should be. I have yet to run out of juice either but I've gotten close like 
pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does say they have a 5% reserve on 
average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around 15 miles left in the battery 
before it truly stops.

Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are built 
and more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the range 
anxiety will be a thing of the past. 

For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the 
trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very doubtful 
you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you need to 
schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of windshield time 
you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent installing, not driving.

The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers and 
they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made in 10+ 
years.

This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not possible 
today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything overnight, in 
10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric whether you like it 
or not. It's simply the future and everything will get better. Better motors, 
cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers everywhere including rural 
towns, etc. 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look 
like they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it. 

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. 
Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle 
mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow 
down with regenerative braking.

bp

On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a 
hill I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>
> So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  
wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 
200 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good fo

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

It is such that the total net change is about the same as if you had gone 
the same distance on level ground.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Right. But my point is you burn more power going up than you’ll regenerate 
going down.

On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:15 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. 
Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle 
mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow 
down with regenerative braking.

bp

On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill 
I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.

So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.

On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to 
be charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just 
takes a different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half 
million miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge 
with solar).
How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 
180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade 
for the first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back 
when Tesla was first doing their supercharger network thing they put 
ones in Roseville (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee 
(just past the summit) so the assumption was that the climb is hard and 
you would charge before going up the hill and charge again after the 
climb. Even just to go to Lake Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit 
(Reno is around 4200').

I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal 
mountain driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets 
used except for flat driving to and from her job or shopping. I'll have 
16.3kW DC of solar panels by the end of February and the way I see it is 
free "fuel" for the car. I don't care about saving the planet as much as 
I am interested in technology.

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Same with the leaf.

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 1:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because I 
rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically only 
drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use regen on 
the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a brake hold 
until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used for quick or 
emergency stops. 

So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole way down 
and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back because 
nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas vehicle when you 
slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as long as the engine is 
running.

And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the article 
literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just as in a gas 
car, the estimate is not perfect.

Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life will be 
good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea. It's easier to 
get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a 220v outlet to charge 
faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere without telling me I need 
to charge in order to reach the destination. It's pretty idiot proof as it 
should be. I have yet to run out of juice either but I've gotten close like 
pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does say they have a 5% reserve on 
average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around 15 miles left in the battery 
before it truly stops.

Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are built and 
more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the range anxiety 
will be a thing of the past. 

For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the 
trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very doubtful 
you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you need to 
schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of windshield time 
you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent installing, not driving.

The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers and 
they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made in 10+ 
years.

This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not possible 
today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything overnight, in 
10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric whether you like it 
or not. It's simply the future and everything will get better. Better motors, 
cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers everywhere including rural 
towns, etc. 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look like 
they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it. 

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. 
Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle 
mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow 
down with regenerative braking.

bp

On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill 
I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>
> So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles 
with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 
180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade for the 
first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when Tesla was 
first doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in Roseville 
(basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past the summit) 
so the assumption was that the climb is hard and you would charge before going 
up the hill and charge again after the climb. Even just to go to Lake Tahoe 
requires crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around 4200').
>>
>> I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal 
mountain driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used 
except for flat driving to

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Totally depends on the current of the charger. If you are charging at 400 amps 
it does not take long to fill the batts.  

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per hour. 

So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait with 
the generator running. 

On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?  Let’s 
say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a typical 
portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast chargers on 
their trucks?

  Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t 
drive an EV so I don’t know.

  Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a 
charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas.  

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50 
miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard acceleration. 
Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of fuel, but then that's 
not a simple increase in speed.

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

Matt,

I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas 
vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no load 
and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when you have 
a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police chase and 
accelerating heavily.

Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.

Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far 
and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our second 
winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran out of 
juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same driving 
conditions.

You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas 
vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time 
actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've talked 
with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have stories of 
cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're putting way 
more load on their cars.

So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a 
test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say it 
again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years with 
more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and 
there will be zero chance of running out of juice.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles 
of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient at 
high speeds. 

  On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said 
the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it 
last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a full 
charge. Not the Teslas fault.

https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl  
wrote:

  Matt,

  You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg 
gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well. 

  In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord 
in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get 
about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it. 

  I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same 
things that affect battery range. 

  Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most 
peoples daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than 
the 300 to 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with 
normal weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my 
daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north Dakota. It's 
on their to do list. 

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an 
electric 
truck:
https

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Drag increased with the cube of velocity.

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:09 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Yeah... driving 100+ MPH burns lots and lots of gas...

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 10:05 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

  High speed chases aren't at 70.   We drove my denali when it was brand 
  new out on the backside of 50 across Nevada with no speed limits.   MPH 
  at 70 was about 15.   At 100...   8 MPG   at 125 with the rev limiter 
  kicking in it was 4 MPG...  Actual data collected on the trip and we 
  stopped at every darn gas station we could find...   But we had a hell 
  of a fun trip...

  On 11/30/2019 07:46 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  > All of our vehicles show range.
  > 
  > Never have I ever seen that kind of drop going from 35mph to 70 on the 
  > highway or higher.
  > 
  > On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Mathew Howard  <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
  > 
  >> The same thing would happen if it had been a gas vehicle that said 50 
  >> miles of range left (most gas vehicles do have that feature these 
  >> days...), if you go from driving a gas car at 50 MPH to 120 MPH, your 
  >> MPG is going to drop too, and not a small amount.
  >>
  >> I probably wouldn't want to only have an electric car at this point, 
  >> because there are absolutely situations where they simply aren't 
  >> practical, and there are places that there's no practical way to get 
  >> to in my Tesla (I'd either have to drive 50-100 miles out of the way 
  >> to stop at a Supercharger, or find another way of charging, which 
  >> would take hours)... or I might need to go somewhere 80 miles away at 
  >> the end of the day, and don't have time to wait for a supercharger... 
  >> in that case, I'll just drive my Jeep.
  >>
  >> That said, I haven't yet needed to go anywhere that was a problem in 
  >> the Tesla, and the time I've spent at superchargers adds up to a lot 
  >> less than the time I would've spent at gas pumps in the past six months.
  >>
  >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
  >> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
  >>
  >> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50
  >> miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors
  >> aren’t efficient at high speeds.
  >>
  >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl > <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
  >>
  >>> For that police chase article, the department actually updated
  >>> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the
  >>> officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the car
  >>> never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas fault.
  >>>
  >>> 
https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
  >>>
  >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
  >>> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
  >>>
  >>> Matt,
  >>>
  >>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
  >>> false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
  >>> and higher loads as well.
  >>>
  >>> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda
  >>> accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling
  >>> behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg
  >>> without it.
  >>>
  >>> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the
  >>> same things that affect battery range.
  >>>
  >>> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of
  >>> most peoples daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely
  >>> don't drive more than the 300 to 500 mile range the truck
  >>> will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal weather and in
  >>> the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my
  >>> daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in
  >>> north Dakota. It's on their to do list.
  >>>
  >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes
  >>> >> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
  >>>
  >>> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
  >>>
  >>> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles
  >>> and an electric
  >>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Mine does.  I frequently add a mile or two going down this long hill on my 
commute.

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Out of curiosity, when going downhill or coasting, can these motors act as an 
alternator and charge the batteries?

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:18 AM Steve Jones  wrote:

  4mpg would still be 16 miles, not 8

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:01 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

I so beg to differ!!!  You take a _very_ high performance Police engine 
and put in the 4 gallons of gas to get a normal 50 mile range and then 
go start driving it at max performance and it will go to 4 MPG so fast 
your head will spin.   I drive a power wagon to get to mountain tops and 
it regularly goes from 100 miles range to 30 miles when I go offroad. 
The FIRST think I do when I need to do a serious day is make sure it is 
FULL.   It would be actually easier if I was able to leave it on the 
charger every night and know that I started out _every_ day with 500 
miles on the estimated range.   Knowing that if I went to an offroad 
site I would actually only get 200 miles with heavy load ( and would 
actually be adding to the range going back downhill.   You _aren't_ 
going to get stuck at the TOP of a hill with an EV..

On 11/30/2019 07:34 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 
> 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard 
> acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of 
> fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
> 
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
> 
> Matt,
> 
> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
> vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving
> with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30,
> then again when you have a trailer attached, then again by
> pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.
> 
> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
> 
> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla
> so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going
> into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the
> day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less efficient
> than a gas car in the same driving conditions.
> 
> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their
> gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all
> the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a
> Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department
> and they all have stories of cars running out of gas during
> highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on their cars.
> 
> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you
> schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn
> something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in
> the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
> they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there will be zero
> chance of running out of juice.
> 
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
>  <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
> 
> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said
> 50 miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric
> motors aren’t efficient at high speeds.
> 
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl
> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
> 
>> For that police chase article, the department actually updated
>> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from
>> the officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the
>> car never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas
>> fault.
>>
>> 
https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
>> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I don’t lose 60 miles from the cold.  Maybe 10 miles.

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 10:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

You don’t see a major issue losing 60 miles when it’s cold out?

Yes. Gas changes - but because I put a trailer on or minorly with temperature 
change. 

Batteries change majorly just with use. 

That’s my point - I have a 1/4 tank and go up to a tower - I’ll still have a 
1/4 tank. 

Tesla with 50 miles go up to tower with heat running and I’m stranded. 

Consider also that a cop car running on gas can turn around in 3 minutes from a 
refuel vs 20-70 for a super charge. 

On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:43 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

  Matt, 

  You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets worse 
in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well. 

  In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in the 
winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get about 
10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it. 

  I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things 
that affect battery range. 

  Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples daily 
miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the 300 to 500 
mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal weather and 
in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my daily drive. 
Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north Dakota. It's on their to 
do list. 

  On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric 
truck:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html

“We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge, 
but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110 
miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques 
said.

The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started 
the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.

Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up 
a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get 
stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of 
pulling up the hill.

Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter what.
Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.

On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles 
with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

A. So keeping your foot on the accelerator just keeps the braking from 
kicking in?  That makes more sense. I assumed it was using energy because of 
the drag (braking) that otherwise happens. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 2:35 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> I have no idea how a Prius works, but in a Tesla while you do have to keep 
> your foot on the accelerator to keep regenerative braking from kicking in, it 
> isn't using any power to speak of when you're coasting. A gas car is still 
> burning gas when your foot isn't on the pedal too... 
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:51 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> Consider that we sometimes have the truck running for 6 hours a day. 
>> 
>> Between driving, keeping the cab warm or cold in extreme conditions, or 
>> lighting up a tower or location in the dark, running safety light bars on 
>> the vehicle. 
>> 
>> Electric just doesn’t seem efficient. 
>> 
>> I also find the regenerative breaking annoying and wasteful. On a flat road 
>> I have to keep my foot on the accelerator and basically burn electric to 
>> just keep going. 
>> 
>> With a gas vehicle on the same piece of road I can leave my foot off the 
>> accelerator and coast for miles at a time. 
>> 
>> Our Tundra is rates for 16-18 MPG highway driving. I get 22. 
>> 
>> I know how to drive a gas vehicle. I have yet to see comparable endurance 
>> out of an electric vehicle. 
>> 
>>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 1:10 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because I 
>>> rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically 
>>> only drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use 
>>> regen on the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a 
>>> brake hold until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used 
>>> for quick or emergency stops.
>>> 
>>> So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole way 
>>> down and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back 
>>> because nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas 
>>> vehicle when you slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as 
>>> long as the engine is running.
>>> 
>>> And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the 
>>> article literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just 
>>> as in a gas car, the estimate is not perfect.
>>> 
>>> Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life will 
>>> be good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea. It's 
>>> easier to get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a 220v 
>>> outlet to charge faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere 
>>> without telling me I need to charge in order to reach the destination. It's 
>>> pretty idiot proof as it should be. I have yet to run out of juice either 
>>> but I've gotten close like pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does 
>>> say they have a 5% reserve on average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around 
>>> 15 miles left in the battery before it truly stops.
>>> 
>>> Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are built 
>>> and more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the range 
>>> anxiety will be a thing of the past. 
>>> 
>>> For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the 
>>> trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very 
>>> doubtful you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you 
>>> need to schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of 
>>> windshield time you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent 
>>> installing, not driving.
>>> 
>>> The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers and 
>>> they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made in 
>>> 10+ years.
>>> 
>>> This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not possible 
>>> today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything overnight, 
>>> in 10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric whether you 
>>> like it or not. It's simply the future and everything will get better. 
>>> Better motors, cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers everywhere 
>>> including rural towns, etc. 
>>> 
 On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:
 A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look like 
 they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it. 
 
 On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. 
> Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle 
> mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow 
> down with regenerative braking.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Bill Prince

There's been no published information on how much this thing will weigh 
(let alone how big the batteries are). I've seen estimates of between 6 
and 7 thousand pounds.



bp


On 11/30/2019 10:44 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Are we talking about a car or a truck?  What does the Cybertruck weigh compared 
to a Tesla car, or to a standard pickup?  With the batteries and stainless 
steel body, it has to be really heavy.  That should affect mileage accelerating 
and going up hills, although I guess it could recapture some of that.

Maybe it's not fair to compare it to a pickup truck, that's not how people are 
going to use it.  You're not going to see Cybertrucks running around with 
ladder racks, or sheets of drywall in the bed.  There will be electric pickups 
from Ford/GM/RAM/Toyota for that, but they will look just like the gas or 
diesel versions.  I can see  businesses buying Cybertrucks and wrapping them 
with company logo or ads, kind of like they used to be with Hummers.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Right. But my point is you burn more power going up than you’ll regenerate 
going down.


On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:15 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. Slowing 
down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle mode, you hardly 
have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow down with regenerative 
braking.


bp



On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill I 
could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.

So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.


On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 miles on 
the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be charged.  
Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a different 
mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles with no fuel 
costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).

How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 180 
miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade for the first 
100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when Tesla was first 
doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in Roseville (basically 
the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past the summit) so the 
assumption was that the climb is hard and you would charge before going up the 
hill and charge again after the climb. Even just to go to Lake Tahoe requires 
crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around 4200').

I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal mountain driving would 
eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used except for flat driving to and from 
her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW DC of solar panels by the end of February and the 
way I see it is free "fuel" for the car. I don't care about saving the planet 
as much as I am interested in technology.

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I have no idea how a Prius works, but in a Tesla while you do have to keep
your foot on the accelerator to keep regenerative braking from kicking in,
it isn't using any power to speak of when you're coasting. A gas car is
still burning gas when your foot isn't on the pedal too...

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:51 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Consider that we sometimes have the truck running for 6 hours a day.
>
> Between driving, keeping the cab warm or cold in extreme conditions, or
> lighting up a tower or location in the dark, running safety light bars on
> the vehicle.
>
> Electric just doesn’t seem efficient.
>
> I also find the regenerative breaking annoying and wasteful. On a flat
> road I have to keep my foot on the accelerator and basically burn electric
> to just keep going.
>
> With a gas vehicle on the same piece of road I can leave my foot off the
> accelerator and coast for miles at a time.
>
> Our Tundra is rates for 16-18 MPG highway driving. I get 22.
>
> I know how to drive a gas vehicle. I have yet to see comparable endurance
> out of an electric vehicle.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 1:10 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because I
> rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically
> only drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use
> regen on the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a
> brake hold until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used
> for quick or emergency stops.
>
> So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole way
> down and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back
> because nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas
> vehicle when you slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as
> long as the engine is running.
>
> And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the
> article literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just
> as in a gas car, the estimate is not perfect.
>
> Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life will
> be good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea. It's
> easier to get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a 220v
> outlet to charge faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere
> without telling me I need to charge in order to reach the destination. It's
> pretty idiot proof as it should be. I have yet to run out of juice either
> but I've gotten close like pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does
> say they have a 5% reserve on average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around
> 15 miles left in the battery before it truly stops.
>
> Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are
> built and more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the
> range anxiety will be a thing of the past.
>
> For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the
> trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very
> doubtful you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you
> need to schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of
> windshield time you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent
> installing, not driving.
>
> The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers and
> they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made in
> 10+ years.
>
> This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not possible
> today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything overnight,
> in 10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric whether you
> like it or not. It's simply the future and everything will get better.
> Better motors, cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers everywhere
> including rural towns, etc.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
>> A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look
>> like they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power.
>>> Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle
>>> mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow
>>> down with regenerative braking.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> > My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a
>>> hill I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>>> >
>>> > So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>>> >
>>> >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> >>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have
>>> 200 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Consider that we sometimes have the truck running for 6 hours a day. 

Between driving, keeping the cab warm or cold in extreme conditions, or 
lighting up a tower or location in the dark, running safety light bars on the 
vehicle. 

Electric just doesn’t seem efficient. 

I also find the regenerative breaking annoying and wasteful. On a flat road I 
have to keep my foot on the accelerator and basically burn electric to just 
keep going. 

With a gas vehicle on the same piece of road I can leave my foot off the 
accelerator and coast for miles at a time. 

Our Tundra is rates for 16-18 MPG highway driving. I get 22. 

I know how to drive a gas vehicle. I have yet to see comparable endurance out 
of an electric vehicle. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 1:10 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because I 
> rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically only 
> drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use regen on 
> the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a brake hold 
> until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used for quick or 
> emergency stops.
> 
> So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole way 
> down and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back 
> because nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas vehicle 
> when you slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as long as the 
> engine is running.
> 
> And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the 
> article literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just 
> as in a gas car, the estimate is not perfect.
> 
> Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life will be 
> good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea. It's easier 
> to get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a 220v outlet to 
> charge faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere without telling 
> me I need to charge in order to reach the destination. It's pretty idiot 
> proof as it should be. I have yet to run out of juice either but I've gotten 
> close like pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does say they have a 5% 
> reserve on average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around 15 miles left in the 
> battery before it truly stops.
> 
> Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are built 
> and more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the range 
> anxiety will be a thing of the past. 
> 
> For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the 
> trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very 
> doubtful you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you need 
> to schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of windshield 
> time you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent installing, not 
> driving.
> 
> The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers and 
> they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made in 10+ 
> years.
> 
> This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not possible 
> today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything overnight, 
> in 10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric whether you 
> like it or not. It's simply the future and everything will get better. Better 
> motors, cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers everywhere including 
> rural towns, etc. 
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>> A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look like 
>> they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it. 
>> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. 
>>> Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle 
>>> mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow 
>>> down with regenerative braking.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> > My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill 
>>> > I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>>> >
>>> > So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>>> >
>>> >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> >>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
>>> >>> miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to 
>>> >>> be charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just 
>>> >>> takes a different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half 
>>> >>> million miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge 
>>> >>> with solar).
>>> >> How much do you lose climbing elevation?

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Ken Hohhof

Are we talking about a car or a truck?  What does the Cybertruck weigh compared 
to a Tesla car, or to a standard pickup?  With the batteries and stainless 
steel body, it has to be really heavy.  That should affect mileage accelerating 
and going up hills, although I guess it could recapture some of that.

Maybe it's not fair to compare it to a pickup truck, that's not how people are 
going to use it.  You're not going to see Cybertrucks running around with 
ladder racks, or sheets of drywall in the bed.  There will be electric pickups 
from Ford/GM/RAM/Toyota for that, but they will look just like the gas or 
diesel versions.  I can see  businesses buying Cybertrucks and wrapping them 
with company logo or ads, kind of like they used to be with Hummers.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 11:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Right. But my point is you burn more power going up than you’ll regenerate 
going down. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:15 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. Slowing 
> down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle mode, you 
> hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow down with 
> regenerative braking.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill I 
>> could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>> 
>> So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>> 
>>>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
>>>> miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
>>>> charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
>>>> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million 
>>>> miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>>> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 
>>> 180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade for 
>>> the first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when Tesla 
>>> was first doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in Roseville 
>>> (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past the 
>>> summit) so the assumption was that the climb is hard and you would charge 
>>> before going up the hill and charge again after the climb. Even just to go 
>>> to Lake Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around 4200').
>>> 
>>> I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal mountain 
>>> driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used except 
>>> for flat driving to and from her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW DC of 
>>> solar panels by the end of February and the way I see it is free "fuel" for 
>>> the car. I don't care about saving the planet as much as I am interested in 
>>> technology.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Mathew,

A recent update just enabled it on all Model 3's and Raven version of the S
and X. It's called holding mode and will use regen all the way to 0, then
put the brake hold on until you accelerate again. It's friggin sweet and
truly allows me to barely use the brake pedal at all anymore.

https://tesletter.com/whats-in-tesla-software-update-2019-36-1/

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 12:30 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Interesting... the regenerative braking let's go at around 5mph on my
> Model S. I guess the 3/newer cars must be different, because I can't come
> to a complete stop without using the brakes.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:11 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because
>> I rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically
>> only drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use
>> regen on the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a
>> brake hold until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used
>> for quick or emergency stops.
>>
>> So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole
>> way down and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back
>> because nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas
>> vehicle when you slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as
>> long as the engine is running.
>>
>> And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the
>> article literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just
>> as in a gas car, the estimate is not perfect.
>>
>> Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life
>> will be good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea.
>> It's easier to get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a
>> 220v outlet to charge faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere
>> without telling me I need to charge in order to reach the destination. It's
>> pretty idiot proof as it should be. I have yet to run out of juice either
>> but I've gotten close like pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does
>> say they have a 5% reserve on average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around
>> 15 miles left in the battery before it truly stops.
>>
>> Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are
>> built and more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the
>> range anxiety will be a thing of the past.
>>
>> For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the
>> trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very
>> doubtful you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you
>> need to schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of
>> windshield time you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent
>> installing, not driving.
>>
>> The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers
>> and they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made
>> in 10+ years.
>>
>> This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not
>> possible today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything
>> overnight, in 10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric
>> whether you like it or not. It's simply the future and everything will get
>> better. Better motors, cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers
>> everywhere including rural towns, etc.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look
>>> like they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power.
 Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle
 mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow
 down with regenerative braking.


 bp
 

 On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 > My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a
 hill I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
 >
 > So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
 >
 >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen 
 wrote:
 >>
 >>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 >>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have
 200 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to
 be charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
 different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
 miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
 >> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to
 7000' 180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Interesting... the regenerative braking let's go at around 5mph on my Model
S. I guess the 3/newer cars must be different, because I can't come to a
complete stop without using the brakes.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:11 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because I
> rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically
> only drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use
> regen on the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a
> brake hold until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used
> for quick or emergency stops.
>
> So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole way
> down and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back
> because nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas
> vehicle when you slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as
> long as the engine is running.
>
> And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the
> article literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just
> as in a gas car, the estimate is not perfect.
>
> Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life will
> be good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea. It's
> easier to get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a 220v
> outlet to charge faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere
> without telling me I need to charge in order to reach the destination. It's
> pretty idiot proof as it should be. I have yet to run out of juice either
> but I've gotten close like pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does
> say they have a 5% reserve on average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around
> 15 miles left in the battery before it truly stops.
>
> Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are
> built and more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the
> range anxiety will be a thing of the past.
>
> For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the
> trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very
> doubtful you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you
> need to schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of
> windshield time you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent
> installing, not driving.
>
> The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers and
> they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made in
> 10+ years.
>
> This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not possible
> today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything overnight,
> in 10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric whether you
> like it or not. It's simply the future and everything will get better.
> Better motors, cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers everywhere
> including rural towns, etc.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
>> A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look
>> like they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power.
>>> Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle
>>> mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow
>>> down with regenerative braking.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> > My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a
>>> hill I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>>> >
>>> > So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>>> >
>>> >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> >>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have
>>> 200 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to
>>> be charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
>>> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
>>> miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>>> >> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to
>>> 7000' 180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade
>>> for the first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when
>>> Tesla was first doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in
>>> Roseville (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past
>>> the summit) so the assumption was that the climb is hard and you would
>>> charge before going up the hill and charge again after the climb. Even just
>>> to go to Lake Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around
>>> 4200').
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd like to get my wife an

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

The brake pads in my Tesla should easily last 300k or more miles because I
rarely use them. The cars regenerative braking is so strong I basically
only drive with the throttle now. As soon as I let off, the car will use
regen on the motors and slow me down all the way to 0 now and then apply a
brake hold until I apply power again. The actual brake pedal is only used
for quick or emergency stops.

So yes, it takes energy to climb a hill but you'll use regen the whole way
down and regain some of that lost energy. You don't get 100% of it back
because nothing is that efficient but you get nothing back from a gas
vehicle when you slow down or go down a hill. You always lose energy as
long as the engine is running.

And range estimates on cars are exactly that, estimates. Don't take the
article literally that the car went from 50 miles of range to 8 miles. Just
as in a gas car, the estimate is not perfect.

Moral of the story is, don't run out of gas or battery power and life will
be good. A portable generator to charge a car is not a great idea. It's
easier to get a flatbed and drop the car off at a supercharger or a 220v
outlet to charge faster. I know my car won't let me navigate somewhere
without telling me I need to charge in order to reach the destination. It's
pretty idiot proof as it should be. I have yet to run out of juice either
but I've gotten close like pulling into the garage at 1% range. Tesla does
say they have a 5% reserve on average so even if I hit 0%, I'd have around
15 miles left in the battery before it truly stops.

Proper planning is best for any vehicle and as more superchargers are built
and more level 2 chargers installed at restaurants and hotels, the range
anxiety will be a thing of the past.

For wisp's, you can have chargers installed at the office or wherever the
trucks sit at night and have a full tank every morning. And it's very
doubtful you'll run dead. If you drive 200 miles or more in one day, you
need to schedule jobs more efficiently because that's over 3.5 hours of
windshield time you're paying your techs. Their time should be spent
installing, not driving.

The corner cases like ranchers in Montana are well under 1% of drivers and
they'll eventually go electric too once big diesel trucks aren't made in
10+ years.

This is a train that is coming down the tracks and while it's not possible
today to produce enough batteries for EV's to replace everything overnight,
in 10 years the majority of new vehicle sales will be electric whether you
like it or not. It's simply the future and everything will get better.
Better motors, cheaper and higher density batteries, chargers everywhere
including rural towns, etc.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:52 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look like
> they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power.
>> Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle
>> mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow
>> down with regenerative braking.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> > My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a
>> hill I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>> >
>> > So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>> >
>> >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> >>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200
>> miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be
>> charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
>> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
>> miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>> >> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to
>> 7000' 180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade
>> for the first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when
>> Tesla was first doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in
>> Roseville (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past
>> the summit) so the assumption was that the climb is hard and you would
>> charge before going up the hill and charge again after the climb. Even just
>> to go to Lake Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around
>> 4200').
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal
>> mountain driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used
>> except for flat driving to and from her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW
>> DC of solar panels by the end of February and the way I see it is free
>> "fuel" for the car. I don't care about saving the planet as much as I am
>> interested in technology.
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Right. But my point is you burn more power going up than you’ll regenerate 
going down. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:15 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. Slowing 
> down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle mode, you 
> hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow down with 
> regenerative braking.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill I 
>> could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
>> 
>> So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
>> 
 On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
 
 On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
 charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
 different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million 
 miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>>> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 
>>> 180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade for 
>>> the first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when Tesla 
>>> was first doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in Roseville 
>>> (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past the 
>>> summit) so the assumption was that the climb is hard and you would charge 
>>> before going up the hill and charge again after the climb. Even just to go 
>>> to Lake Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around 4200').
>>> 
>>> I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal mountain 
>>> driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used except 
>>> for flat driving to and from her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW DC of 
>>> solar panels by the end of February and the way I see it is free "fuel" for 
>>> the car. I don't care about saving the planet as much as I am interested in 
>>> technology.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

A nice side affect of regenerative braking is that my brake pads look like
they've barely been used... and my car has almost 60k miles on it.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:16 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power.
> Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle
> mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow
> down with regenerative braking.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a
> hill I could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.
> >
> > So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200
> miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be
> charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
> miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
> >> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to
> 7000' 180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade
> for the first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when
> Tesla was first doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in
> Roseville (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past
> the summit) so the assumption was that the climb is hard and you would
> charge before going up the hill and charge again after the climb. Even just
> to go to Lake Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around
> 4200').
> >>
> >> I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal
> mountain driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used
> except for flat driving to and from her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW
> DC of solar panels by the end of February and the way I see it is free
> "fuel" for the car. I don't care about saving the planet as much as I am
> interested in technology.
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Bill Prince

Yah. Teslas are not like that. Going down a mountain generates power. 
Slowing down (sort of braking) generates power. In aggressive throttle 
mode, you hardly have to touch the brake as you can accelerate and slow 
down with regenerative braking.



bp


On 11/30/2019 8:58 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill I 
could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it.

So yes. You’ll get into a deficit.


On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:


On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 miles on 
the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be charged.  
Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a different 
mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles with no fuel 
costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).

How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 180 
miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade for the first 
100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when Tesla was first 
doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in Roseville (basically 
the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past the summit) so the 
assumption was that the climb is hard and you would charge before going up the 
hill and charge again after the climb. Even just to go to Lake Tahoe requires 
crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around 4200').

I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal mountain driving would 
eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used except for flat driving to and from 
her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW DC of solar panels by the end of February and the 
way I see it is free "fuel" for the car. I don't care about saving the planet 
as much as I am interested in technology.

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

My experience with a Toyota Prius the other week was that climbing a hill I 
could deplete the battery but coming down would not charge it. 

So yes. You’ll get into a deficit. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
>> On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 miles 
>> on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
>> charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
>> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles 
>> with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
> 
> How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 180 
> miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade for the 
> first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back when Tesla was 
> first doing their supercharger network thing they put ones in Roseville 
> (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee (just past the summit) 
> so the assumption was that the climb is hard and you would charge before 
> going up the hill and charge again after the climb. Even just to go to Lake 
> Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit (Reno is around 4200').
> 
> I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal mountain 
> driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets used except for 
> flat driving to and from her job or shopping. I'll have 16.3kW DC of solar 
> panels by the end of February and the way I see it is free "fuel" for the 
> car. I don't care about saving the planet as much as I am interested in 
> technology.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

You being a generator and charge at the astounding rate of 5 miles per hour. 

So let’s say you’re 30 miles from town. That’s 6 hours you’ll need to wait with 
the generator running. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?  Let’s 
> say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a typical 
> portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast chargers on 
> their trucks?
>  
> Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t 
> drive an EV so I don’t know.
>  
> Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a 
> charging station, or a hybrid could run on gas. 
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>  
> There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50 
> miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard acceleration. 
> Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of fuel, but then 
> that's not a simple increase in speed.
>  
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:
> Matt,
>  
> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas vehicle 
> while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no load and 
> temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when you have a 
> trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police chase and 
> accelerating heavily.
>  
> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
>  
> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far and 
> made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our second 
> winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran out of 
> juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same driving 
> conditions.
>  
> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas 
> vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time 
> actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've talked 
> with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have stories of 
> cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're putting way 
> more load on their cars.
>  
> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a 
> test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say it 
> again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years with 
> more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time 
> and there will be zero chance of running out of juice.
>  
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles of 
> range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient at 
> high speeds. 
> 
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said the 
> car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it last. 
> He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a full 
> charge. Not the Teslas fault.
>  
> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>  
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:
> Matt,
>  
> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets worse 
> in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well. 
>  
> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in the 
> winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get about 
> 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it. 
>  
> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things 
> that affect battery range. 
>  
> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples daily 
> miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the 300 to 
> 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal 
> weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my 
> daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north Dakota. 
> It's on their to do list. 
>  
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
> 
> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric 
> truck:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html
> 
> “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left o

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Yeah, they can and do... also when braking.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:22 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Out of curiosity, when going downhill or coasting, can these motors act as
> an alternator and charge the batteries?
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:18 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> 4mpg would still be 16 miles, not 8
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:01 AM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I so beg to differ!!!  You take a _very_ high performance Police engine
>>> and put in the 4 gallons of gas to get a normal 50 mile range and then
>>> go start driving it at max performance and it will go to 4 MPG so fast
>>> your head will spin.   I drive a power wagon to get to mountain tops and
>>> it regularly goes from 100 miles range to 30 miles when I go offroad.
>>> The FIRST think I do when I need to do a serious day is make sure it is
>>> FULL.   It would be actually easier if I was able to leave it on the
>>> charger every night and know that I started out _every_ day with 500
>>> miles on the estimated range.   Knowing that if I went to an offroad
>>> site I would actually only get 200 miles with heavy load ( and would
>>> actually be adding to the range going back downhill.   You _aren't_
>>> going to get stuck at the TOP of a hill with an EV..
>>>
>>> On 11/30/2019 07:34 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> > There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from
>>> > 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
>>> > acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of
>>> > fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl >> > > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Matt,
>>> >
>>> > I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your
>>> gas
>>> > vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving
>>> > with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30,
>>> > then again when you have a trailer attached, then again by
>>> > pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.
>>> >
>>> > Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric
>>> vehicles.
>>> >
>>> > Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla
>>> > so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just
>>> going
>>> > into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the
>>> > day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less efficient
>>> > than a gas car in the same driving conditions.
>>> >
>>> > You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their
>>> > gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all
>>> > the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a
>>> > Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department
>>> > and they all have stories of cars running out of gas during
>>> > highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on their
>>> cars.
>>> >
>>> > So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you
>>> > schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn
>>> > something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in
>>> > the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
>>> > they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there will be
>>> zero
>>> > chance of running out of juice.
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
>>> > >> > > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said
>>> > 50 miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric
>>> > motors aren’t efficient at high speeds.
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl
>>> > mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> For that police chase article, the department actually updated
>>> >> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from
>>> >> the officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the
>>> >> car never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas
>>> >> fault.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
>>> >> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Matt,
>>> >>
>>> >> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
>>> >> false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
>>> >> and higher loads as well.
>>> >>
>>> >> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or
>>> >> Honda accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer
>>> >> pulling behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg compared to
>>> >> our 19mpg without it.
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 11/30/19 5:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 miles on 
the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be charged.  
Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a different 
mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles with no fuel 
costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).


How much do you lose climbing elevation? Let's say sea level up to 7000' 
180 miles uphill (San Fransisco to Donner Pass). It's a minimal grade 
for the first 100 miles then the last 80 is nothing but uphill. Back 
when Tesla was first doing their supercharger network thing they put 
ones in Roseville (basically the bottom of the hill) and more in Truckee 
(just past the summit) so the assumption was that the climb is hard and 
you would charge before going up the hill and charge again after the 
climb. Even just to go to Lake Tahoe requires crossing an 8000' summit 
(Reno is around 4200').


I'd like to get my wife an electric car, but it seems like normal 
mountain driving would eat the battery quickly and then it never gets 
used except for flat driving to and from her job or shopping. I'll have 
16.3kW DC of solar panels by the end of February and the way I see it is 
free "fuel" for the car. I don't care about saving the planet as much as 
I am interested in technology.


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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Steve Jones

Out of curiosity, when going downhill or coasting, can these motors act as
an alternator and charge the batteries?

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:18 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> 4mpg would still be 16 miles, not 8
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:01 AM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> I so beg to differ!!!  You take a _very_ high performance Police engine
>> and put in the 4 gallons of gas to get a normal 50 mile range and then
>> go start driving it at max performance and it will go to 4 MPG so fast
>> your head will spin.   I drive a power wagon to get to mountain tops and
>> it regularly goes from 100 miles range to 30 miles when I go offroad.
>> The FIRST think I do when I need to do a serious day is make sure it is
>> FULL.   It would be actually easier if I was able to leave it on the
>> charger every night and know that I started out _every_ day with 500
>> miles on the estimated range.   Knowing that if I went to an offroad
>> site I would actually only get 200 miles with heavy load ( and would
>> actually be adding to the range going back downhill.   You _aren't_
>> going to get stuck at the TOP of a hill with an EV..
>>
>> On 11/30/2019 07:34 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> > There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from
>> > 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
>> > acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of
>> > fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > Matt,
>> >
>> > I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
>> > vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving
>> > with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30,
>> > then again when you have a trailer attached, then again by
>> > pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.
>> >
>> > Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric
>> vehicles.
>> >
>> > Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla
>> > so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going
>> > into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the
>> > day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less efficient
>> > than a gas car in the same driving conditions.
>> >
>> > You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their
>> > gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all
>> > the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a
>> > Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department
>> > and they all have stories of cars running out of gas during
>> > highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on their
>> cars.
>> >
>> > So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you
>> > schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn
>> > something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in
>> > the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
>> > they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there will be zero
>> > chance of running out of juice.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said
>> > 50 miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric
>> > motors aren’t efficient at high speeds.
>> >
>> > On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl
>> > mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> For that police chase article, the department actually updated
>> >> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from
>> >> the officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the
>> >> car never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas
>> >> fault.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
>> >> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Matt,
>> >>
>> >> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
>> >> false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
>> >> and higher loads as well.
>> >>
>> >> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or
>> >> Honda accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer
>> >> pulling behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg compared to
>> >> our 19mpg without it.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to
>> >> the same things that affect battery range.
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Steve Jones

4mpg would still be 16 miles, not 8

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 10:01 AM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I so beg to differ!!!  You take a _very_ high performance Police engine
> and put in the 4 gallons of gas to get a normal 50 mile range and then
> go start driving it at max performance and it will go to 4 MPG so fast
> your head will spin.   I drive a power wagon to get to mountain tops and
> it regularly goes from 100 miles range to 30 miles when I go offroad.
> The FIRST think I do when I need to do a serious day is make sure it is
> FULL.   It would be actually easier if I was able to leave it on the
> charger every night and know that I started out _every_ day with 500
> miles on the estimated range.   Knowing that if I went to an offroad
> site I would actually only get 200 miles with heavy load ( and would
> actually be adding to the range going back downhill.   You _aren't_
> going to get stuck at the TOP of a hill with an EV..
>
> On 11/30/2019 07:34 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from
> > 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
> > acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of
> > fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  > > wrote:
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
> > vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving
> > with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30,
> > then again when you have a trailer attached, then again by
> > pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.
> >
> > Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
> >
> > Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla
> > so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going
> > into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the
> > day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less efficient
> > than a gas car in the same driving conditions.
> >
> > You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their
> > gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all
> > the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a
> > Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department
> > and they all have stories of cars running out of gas during
> > highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on their cars.
> >
> > So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you
> > schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn
> > something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in
> > the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
> > they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there will be zero
> > chance of running out of juice.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
> >  > > wrote:
> >
> > That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said
> > 50 miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric
> > motors aren’t efficient at high speeds.
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl
> > mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> For that police chase article, the department actually updated
> >> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from
> >> the officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the
> >> car never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas
> >> fault.
> >>
> >>
> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
> >> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Matt,
> >>
> >> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
> >> false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
> >> and higher loads as well.
> >>
> >> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or
> >> Honda accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer
> >> pulling behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg compared to
> >> our 19mpg without it.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to
> >> the same things that affect battery range.
> >>
> >> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of
> >> most peoples daily miles. I can day our work vans
> >> definitely don't drive more than the 300 to 500 mile range
> >> the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal
> >> weather and in the winter,

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Yeah... driving 100+ MPH burns lots and lots of gas...

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 10:05 AM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> High speed chases aren't at 70.   We drove my denali when it was brand
> new out on the backside of 50 across Nevada with no speed limits.   MPH
> at 70 was about 15.   At 100...   8 MPG   at 125 with the rev limiter
> kicking in it was 4 MPG...  Actual data collected on the trip and we
> stopped at every darn gas station we could find...   But we had a hell
> of a fun trip...
>
> On 11/30/2019 07:46 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > All of our vehicles show range.
> >
> > Never have I ever seen that kind of drop going from 35mph to 70 on the
> > highway or higher.
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Mathew Howard  > > wrote:
> >
> >> The same thing would happen if it had been a gas vehicle that said 50
> >> miles of range left (most gas vehicles do have that feature these
> >> days...), if you go from driving a gas car at 50 MPH to 120 MPH, your
> >> MPG is going to drop too, and not a small amount.
> >>
> >> I probably wouldn't want to only have an electric car at this point,
> >> because there are absolutely situations where they simply aren't
> >> practical, and there are places that there's no practical way to get
> >> to in my Tesla (I'd either have to drive 50-100 miles out of the way
> >> to stop at a Supercharger, or find another way of charging, which
> >> would take hours)... or I might need to go somewhere 80 miles away at
> >> the end of the day, and don't have time to wait for a supercharger...
> >> in that case, I'll just drive my Jeep.
> >>
> >> That said, I haven't yet needed to go anywhere that was a problem in
> >> the Tesla, and the time I've spent at superchargers adds up to a lot
> >> less than the time I would've spent at gas pumps in the past six months.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
> >>  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50
> >> miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors
> >> aren’t efficient at high speeds.
> >>
> >> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> For that police chase article, the department actually updated
> >>> and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the
> >>> officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the car
> >>> never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas fault.
> >>>
> >>>
> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
> >>> mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Matt,
> >>>
> >>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
> >>> false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
> >>> and higher loads as well.
> >>>
> >>> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda
> >>> accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling
> >>> behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg
> >>> without it.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the
> >>> same things that affect battery range.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of
> >>> most peoples daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely
> >>> don't drive more than the 300 to 500 mile range the truck
> >>> will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal weather and in
> >>> the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my
> >>> daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in
> >>> north Dakota. It's on their to do list.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes
> >>>  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
> >>>
> >>> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles
> >>> and an electric
> >>> truck:
> >>>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html
> >>>
> >>> “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left
> >>> on the charge,
> >>> but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation,
> >>> going over 110
> >>> miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down
> >>> faster,” Ms. Bosques
> >>> said.
> >>>
> >>> The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as
> >>> soon as he started
> >>> the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call
> >>> off the chase.
> >>>
> >>> Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go,
> >>> and you start up
> >>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

High speed chases aren't at 70.   We drove my denali when it was brand 
new out on the backside of 50 across Nevada with no speed limits.   MPH 
at 70 was about 15.   At 100...   8 MPG   at 125 with the rev limiter 
kicking in it was 4 MPG...  Actual data collected on the trip and we 
stopped at every darn gas station we could find...   But we had a hell 
of a fun trip...

On 11/30/2019 07:46 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

All of our vehicles show range.

Never have I ever seen that kind of drop going from 35mph to 70 on the 
highway or higher.

On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Mathew Howard > wrote:

The same thing would happen if it had been a gas vehicle that said 50 
miles of range left (most gas vehicles do have that feature these 
days...), if you go from driving a gas car at 50 MPH to 120 MPH, your 
MPG is going to drop too, and not a small amount.

I probably wouldn't want to only have an electric car at this point, 
because there are absolutely situations where they simply aren't 
practical, and there are places that there's no practical way to get 
to in my Tesla (I'd either have to drive 50-100 miles out of the way 
to stop at a Supercharger, or find another way of charging, which 
would take hours)... or I might need to go somewhere 80 miles away at 
the end of the day, and don't have time to wait for a supercharger... 
in that case, I'll just drive my Jeep.

That said, I haven't yet needed to go anywhere that was a problem in 
the Tesla, and the time I've spent at superchargers adds up to a lot 
less than the time I would've spent at gas pumps in the past six months.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:

That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50
miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors
aren’t efficient at high speeds.

On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:

For that police chase article, the department actually updated
and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the
officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the car
never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas fault.

https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:

Matt,

You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
and higher loads as well.

In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda
accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling
behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg
without it.

I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the
same things that affect battery range.

Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of
most peoples daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely
don't drive more than the 300 to 500 mile range the truck
will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal weather and in
the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my
daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in
north Dakota. It's on their to do list.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles
and an electric
truck:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html

“We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left
on the charge,
but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation,
going over 110
miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down
faster,” Ms. Bosques
said.

The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as
soon as he started
the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call
off the chase.

Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go,
and you start up
a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and
suddenly get
stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the
load of
pulling up the hill.

Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the
same no matter what.
Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and
usage.

On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I
always have 200 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full
day of

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

No, it's not going to be as big of a drop, but it is going to drop... and
starting a high speed chase to parts unknown with 50 miles of range on gas
car probably isn't going to go too well either.

Electric cars are certainly different than what we're used to, but that
doesn't make them worse. They're better at some things than gas, and worse
than some things. My opinion after driving one for 10,000 miles, is that
overall, electric is better for the vast majority of what I do with a car.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:47 AM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> All of our vehicles show range.
>
> Never have I ever seen that kind of drop going from 35mph to 70 on the
> highway or higher.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
> The same thing would happen if it had been a gas vehicle that said 50
> miles of range left (most gas vehicles do have that feature these days...),
> if you go from driving a gas car at 50 MPH to 120 MPH, your MPG is going to
> drop too, and not a small amount.
>
> I probably wouldn't want to only have an electric car at this point,
> because there are absolutely situations where they simply aren't practical,
> and there are places that there's no practical way to get to in my Tesla
> (I'd either have to drive 50-100 miles out of the way to stop at a
> Supercharger, or find another way of charging, which would take hours)...
> or I might need to go somewhere 80 miles away at the end of the day, and
> don't have time to wait for a supercharger... in that case, I'll just drive
> my Jeep.
>
> That said, I haven't yet needed to go anywhere that was a problem in the
> Tesla, and the time I've spent at superchargers adds up to a lot less than
> the time I would've spent at gas pumps in the past six months.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles
>> of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient
>> at high speeds.
>>
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said
>> the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it
>> last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a
>> full charge. Not the Teslas fault.
>>
>>
>> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets
>>> worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well.
>>>
>>> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in
>>> the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get
>>> about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same
>>> things that affect battery range.
>>>
>>> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples
>>> daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the
>>> 300 to 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with
>>> normal weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care
>>> of my daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north
>>> Dakota. It's on their to do list.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

 This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric
 truck:
 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html

 “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the
 charge,
 but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over
 110
 miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms.
 Bosques
 said.

 The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he
 started
 the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.

 Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start
 up
 a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get
 stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of
 pulling up the hill.

 Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter
 what.
 Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.

 On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 > Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200
 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be
 charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
 different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
 miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I so beg to differ!!!  You take a _very_ high performance Police engine 
and put in the 4 gallons of gas to get a normal 50 mile range and then 
go start driving it at max performance and it will go to 4 MPG so fast 
your head will spin.   I drive a power wagon to get to mountain tops and 
it regularly goes from 100 miles range to 30 miles when I go offroad. 
The FIRST think I do when I need to do a serious day is make sure it is 
FULL.   It would be actually easier if I was able to leave it on the 
charger every night and know that I started out _every_ day with 500 
miles on the estimated range.   Knowing that if I went to an offroad 
site I would actually only get 200 miles with heavy load ( and would 
actually be adding to the range going back downhill.   You _aren't_ 
going to get stuck at the TOP of a hill with an EV..


On 11/30/2019 07:34 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 
50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard 
acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of 
fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.


On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl > wrote:


Matt,

I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving
with no load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30,
then again when you have a trailer attached, then again by
pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.

Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.

Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla
so far and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going
into our second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the
day, I've never ran out of juice and my car is no less efficient
than a gas car in the same driving conditions.

You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their
gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all
the time actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a
Tesla. I've talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department
and they all have stories of cars running out of gas during
highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on their cars.

So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you
schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn
something. I'll say it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in
the US. In another 2 years with more charging infrastructure,
they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and there will be zero
chance of running out of juice.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said
50 miles of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric
motors aren’t efficient at high speeds.

On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:


For that police chase article, the department actually updated
and said the car wasn't fully charged the night before from
the officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in so the
car never started the shift with a full charge. Not the Teslas
fault.


https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:

Matt,

You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally
false. Mpg gets worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
and higher loads as well.

In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or
Honda accord in the winter. With the snowmobile trailer
pulling behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg compared to
our 19mpg without it.

I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to
the same things that affect battery range.

Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of
most peoples daily miles. I can day our work vans
definitely don't drive more than the 300 to 500 mile range
the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal
weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always
takes care of my daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers
all over except in north Dakota. It's on their to do list.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles
and

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Police cars, whether they are state troopers, sheriff, or city
  cops spend a huge amount of time just idling. When they're doing
  this, they get zero MPG. This has a remarkable impact on their
  overall mileage, not to mention cost to operate. Based on what
  I've read and seen, an electric cruiser would be a great benefit.


bp



On 11/30/2019 7:34 AM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  There is no instance where simple increase in
speed will take you from 50 miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle.
Even heavy braking and hard acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn
out would consume 50 miles worth of fuel, but then that's not a
simple increase in speed.
  
  
On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM
  Darin Steffl 
  wrote:


  Matt,


I don't believe you've ever actually given any
  attention to your gas vehicle while driving it. Look at
  your mpg during normal driving with no load and temps
  about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again
  when you have a trailer attached, then again by pretending
  you're in a police chase and accelerating heavily.


Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to
  electric vehicles.


Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles
  on my Tesla so far and made it through a Minnesota winter
  already and just going into our second winter. I've
  learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran
  out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas
  car in the same driving conditions.


You've obviously never heard of all the police chases
  where their gas vehicles run out of gas during a chase
  either. It happens all the time actually, it just doesn't
  make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've talked with
  state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all
  have stories of cars running out of gas during highspeed
  chases because they're putting way more load on their
  cars.


So instead of being a hater just because you can, why
  don't you schedule a test drive of a Tesla or other EV's
  and you can learn something. I'll say it again, EV's today
  work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years with
  more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of
  drivers all the time and there will be zero chance of
  running out of juice.
  
  
  
On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at
  9:06 AM Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:


  
That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the
  cars fault. The car said 50 miles of range. Which then
  dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient
  at high speeds. 

  On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl 
  wrote:
  


  
For that police chase article, the
  department actually updated and said the car
  wasn't fully charged the night before from the
  officer who used it last. He forgot to plug it in
  so the car never started the shift with a full
  charge. Not the Teslas fault.
  
  
  https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
  



  On Sat, Nov 30,
2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl 
wrote:
  
  
Matt,
  
  
  You said gas is the same no
matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets
worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps
and higher loads as well. 
  
  
  In the cold, I've always lost
4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in
the winter. With the snowmobile trailer
pulling behind our chevy, we get about 10mpg

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Ken Hohhof

What do you do when an EV runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere?  Let’s 
say you call someone, what do they bring?  Can you charge it from a typical 
portable generator?  If you call a tow service, do they have fast chargers on 
their trucks?

 

Not making a point, just asking.  Maybe there is a simple answer.  I don’t 
drive an EV so I don’t know.

 

Chuck with his Leaf could put it in limp mode and try to make it to a charging 
station, or a hybrid could run on gas.  

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50 miles 
range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard acceleration. Maybe an 
8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of fuel, but then that's not a 
simple increase in speed.

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Matt,

 

I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas vehicle 
while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no load and temps 
about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when you have a trailer 
attached, then again by pretending you're in a police chase and accelerating 
heavily.

 

Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.

 

Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far and 
made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our second 
winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran out of 
juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same driving 
conditions.

 

You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas vehicles 
run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time actually, it just 
doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've talked with state troopers 
and our sheriff's department and they all have stories of cars running out of 
gas during highspeed chases because they're putting way more load on their cars.

 

So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a test 
drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say it again, 
EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years with more 
charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the time and 
there will be zero chance of running out of juice.

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles of 
range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient at high 
speeds. 


On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said the car 
wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it last. He 
forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a full charge. Not 
the Teslas fault.

 

https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Matt,

 

You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets worse 
in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well. 

 

In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in the 
winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get about 
10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it. 

 

I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things that 
affect battery range. 

 

Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples daily 
miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the 300 to 500 
mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal weather and 
in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my daily drive. 
Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north Dakota. It's on their to 
do list. 

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric 
truck:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html

“We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge, 
but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110 
miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques 
said.

The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started 
the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.

Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up 
a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Steve Jones

There is no instance where simple increase in speed will take you from 50
miles range to 8 in a gas vehicle. Even heavy braking and hard
acceleration. Maybe an 8 mile burn out would consume 50 miles worth of
fuel, but then that's not a simple increase in speed.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 9:22 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> Matt,
>
> I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
> vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no
> load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when
> you have a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police
> chase and accelerating heavily.
>
> Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.
>
> Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far
> and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our
> second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran
> out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same
> driving conditions.
>
> You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas
> vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time
> actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've
> talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have
> stories of cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're
> putting way more load on their cars.
>
> So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a
> test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say
> it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years
> with more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the
> time and there will be zero chance of running out of juice.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles
>> of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient
>> at high speeds.
>>
>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said
>> the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it
>> last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a
>> full charge. Not the Teslas fault.
>>
>>
>> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets
>>> worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well.
>>>
>>> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in
>>> the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get
>>> about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same
>>> things that affect battery range.
>>>
>>> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples
>>> daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the
>>> 300 to 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with
>>> normal weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care
>>> of my daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north
>>> Dakota. It's on their to do list.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

 This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric
 truck:
 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html

 “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the
 charge,
 but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over
 110
 miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms.
 Bosques
 said.

 The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he
 started
 the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.

 Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start
 up
 a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get
 stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of
 pulling up the hill.

 Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter
 what.
 Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.

 On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 > Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200
 miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be
 charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
 different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Matt,

I don't believe you've ever actually given any attention to your gas
vehicle while driving it. Look at your mpg during normal driving with no
load and temps about 65. Then check mpg when it's below 30, then again when
you have a trailer attached, then again by pretending you're in a police
chase and accelerating heavily.

Your mpg will change at nearly equal percentage to electric vehicles.

Don't knock it until you try it. I've got 35,000 miles on my Tesla so far
and made it through a Minnesota winter already and just going into our
second winter. I've learned a lot but at the end of the day, I've never ran
out of juice and my car is no less efficient than a gas car in the same
driving conditions.

You've obviously never heard of all the police chases where their gas
vehicles run out of gas during a chase either. It happens all the time
actually, it just doesn't make the news because it's not a Tesla. I've
talked with state troopers and our sheriff's department and they all have
stories of cars running out of gas during highspeed chases because they're
putting way more load on their cars.

So instead of being a hater just because you can, why don't you schedule a
test drive of a Tesla or other EV's and you can learn something. I'll say
it again, EV's today work for 99% of drivers in the US. In another 2 years
with more charging infrastructure, they'll work for 100% of drivers all the
time and there will be zero chance of running out of juice.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 9:06 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles
> of range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient
> at high speeds.
>
> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said
> the car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it
> last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a
> full charge. Not the Teslas fault.
>
>
> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets
>> worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well.
>>
>> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in
>> the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get
>> about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it.
>>
>> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things
>> that affect battery range.
>>
>> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples
>> daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the
>> 300 to 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with
>> normal weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care
>> of my daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north
>> Dakota. It's on their to do list.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
>>>
>>> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric
>>> truck:
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html
>>>
>>> “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge,
>>> but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110
>>> miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques
>>> said.
>>>
>>> The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started
>>> the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.
>>>
>>> Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up
>>> a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get
>>> stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of
>>> pulling up the hill.
>>>
>>> Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter
>>> what.
>>> Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.
>>>
>>> On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> > Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200
>>> miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be
>>> charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
>>> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
>>> miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

That’s a fan boy answer. Yes it is the cars fault. The car said 50 miles of 
range. Which then dropped to 8 because electric motors aren’t efficient at high 
speeds. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said the 
> car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it last. 
> He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a full 
> charge. Not the Teslas fault.
> 
> https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:
>> Matt,
>> 
>> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets 
>> worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well. 
>> 
>> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in the 
>> winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get about 
>> 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it. 
>> 
>> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things 
>> that affect battery range. 
>> 
>> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples 
>> daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the 
>> 300 to 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with 
>> normal weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of 
>> my daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north 
>> Dakota. It's on their to do list. 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
>>> 
>>> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric 
>>> truck:
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html
>>> 
>>> “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge, 
>>> but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110 
>>> miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques 
>>> said.
>>> 
>>> The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started 
>>> the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.
>>> 
>>> Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up 
>>> a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get 
>>> stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of 
>>> pulling up the hill.
>>> 
>>> Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter what.
>>> Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.
>>> 
>>> On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> > Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
>>> > miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to 
>>> > be charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes 
>>> > a different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million 
>>> > miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

You don’t see a major issue losing 60 miles when it’s cold out?

Yes. Gas changes - but because I put a trailer on or minorly with temperature 
change. 

Batteries change majorly just with use. 

That’s my point - I have a 1/4 tank and go up to a tower - I’ll still have a 
1/4 tank. 

Tesla with 50 miles go up to tower with heat running and I’m stranded. 

Consider also that a cop car running on gas can turn around in 3 minutes from a 
refuel vs 20-70 for a super charge. 

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 9:43 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> Matt,
> 
> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets worse 
> in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well. 
> 
> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in the 
> winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get about 
> 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it. 
> 
> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things 
> that affect battery range. 
> 
> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples daily 
> miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the 300 to 
> 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with normal 
> weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care of my 
> daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north Dakota. 
> It's on their to do list. 
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
>> 
>> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric 
>> truck:
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html
>> 
>> “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge, 
>> but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110 
>> miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques 
>> said.
>> 
>> The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started 
>> the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.
>> 
>> Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up 
>> a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get 
>> stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of 
>> pulling up the hill.
>> 
>> Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter what.
>> Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.
>> 
>> On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> > Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
>> > miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
>> > charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
>> > different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million 
>> > miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

For that police chase article, the department actually updated and said the
car wasn't fully charged the night before from the officer who used it
last. He forgot to plug it in so the car never started the shift with a
full charge. Not the Teslas fault.

https://electrek.co/2019/09/25/tesla-police-cruiser-runs-out-battery-chase-user-error/

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:43 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> Matt,
>
> You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets
> worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well.
>
> In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in
> the winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get
> about 10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it.
>
> I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things
> that affect battery range.
>
> Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples
> daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the
> 300 to 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with
> normal weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care
> of my daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north
> Dakota. It's on their to do list.
>
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
>>
>> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric
>> truck:
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html
>>
>> “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge,
>> but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110
>> miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques
>> said.
>>
>> The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started
>> the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.
>>
>> Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up
>> a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get
>> stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of
>> pulling up the hill.
>>
>> Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter
>> what.
>> Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.
>>
>> On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> > Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200
>> miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be
>> charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
>> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
>> miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Matt,

You said gas is the same no matter what. That's totally false. Mpg gets
worse in every gad vehicle with cold temps and higher loads as well.

In the cold, I've always lost 4 to 8 mpg in my truck or Honda accord in the
winter. With the snowmobile trailer pulling behind our chevy, we get about
10mpg compared to our 19mpg without it.

I'm not sure why you would say gas vehicles are immune to the same things
that affect battery range.

Anyway, plugging in every night pretty much handles 99% of most peoples
daily miles. I can day our work vans definitely don't drive more than the
300 to 500 mile range the truck will have. My model 3 is 310 miles with
normal weather and in the winter, about 250 miles which always takes care
of my daily drive. Roadtrips have superchargers all over except in north
Dakota. It's on their to do list.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 8:22 AM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.
>
> This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric
> truck:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html
>
> “We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge,
> but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110
> miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques
> said.
>
> The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started
> the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.
>
> Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up
> a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get
> stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of
> pulling up the hill.
>
> Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter
> what.
> Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.
>
> On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> > Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200
> miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be
> charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a
> different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million
> miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


End of shift.  Bound to happen.

The cops in that department love the Tesla.  The news omitted that fact.

You get used to managing your range.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric
truck:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html

“We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge,
but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110
miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques
said.

The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started
the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.

Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up
a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get
stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of
pulling up the hill.

Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter what.
Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.

On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 
miles on the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be 
charged.  Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a 
different mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million 
miles with no fuel costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar). 



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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


Thanks for bringing that up, Chuck.

This is exactly what scares me about electric vehicles and an electric 
truck:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/tesla-police-car-chase.html

“We think it started the pursuit with about 50 miles left on the charge, 
but when cars accelerate at speeds such as the situation, going over 110 
miles per hour, the car charge starts to drain down faster,” Ms. Bosques 
said.


The officer had "50 miles" left on the charge, but as soon as he started 
the chase the range dropped to 8 miles and he had to call off the chase.


Imagine having your truck say you have 100 miles to go, and you start up 
a steep mountain incline to get to a tower site and suddenly get 
stranded because it dropped to 10 miles of range from the load of 
pulling up the hill.


Gas - I always know what I have and in general it's the same no matter what.
Electric - Huge variations depending on temperature and usage.

On 11/30/19 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 miles on 
the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be charged.  
Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a different 
mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles with no fuel 
costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).


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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-30 Thread Chuck McCown

Depends on distance.  My car is always charged.  So I always have 200 miles on 
the tank.  At the end of a full day of driving yes it needs to be charged.  
Local police departments are making Teslas work.  Just takes a different 
mindset.  No maintenance and a truck good for a half million miles with no fuel 
costs is pretty attractive to me (I charge with solar).

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> I just said this at a family gathering tonight. 
> 
> I see the cybertruck not being viable as a service vehicle. I need immediate 
> turn around from a dead tank to ready to go in an emergency situation. 
> 
> I can’t be waiting 20-70 minutes to get back out on the road. 
> 
>>> On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:32 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>> 
 On 11/25/19 4:26 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>> My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10% 
>>> battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.
>>> With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a 
>>> near full charge under 20 mins while traveling.
>> 
>> 
>> I must be still young enough to see this as a major annoyance to travel. I 
>> don't want to stop and dick around for 20-30 minutes when I'm on the road. I 
>> just want to go and keep going until I get to the destination.
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-29 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 11/29/19 8:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You must wear those astronaut diapers?



Not quite to that point yet.

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-29 Thread Ken Hohhof

You must wear those astronaut diapers?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2019 9:33 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

On 11/25/19 4:26 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
> 
> My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 
> 10% battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.
> 
> With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so 
> expect a near full charge under 20 mins while traveling.


I must be still young enough to see this as a major annoyance to travel. 
I don't want to stop and dick around for 20-30 minutes when I'm on the road.
I just want to go and keep going until I get to the destination.

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-29 Thread Matt Hoppes

I just said this at a family gathering tonight. 

I see the cybertruck not being viable as a service vehicle. I need immediate 
turn around from a dead tank to ready to go in an emergency situation. 

I can’t be waiting 20-70 minutes to get back out on the road. 

> On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:32 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
>> On 11/25/19 4:26 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>> My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10% 
>> battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.
>> With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a 
>> near full charge under 20 mins while traveling.
> 
> 
> I must be still young enough to see this as a major annoyance to travel. I 
> don't want to stop and dick around for 20-30 minutes when I'm on the road. I 
> just want to go and keep going until I get to the destination.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-29 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 11/25/19 4:26 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:


My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10% 
battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.


With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so 
expect a near full charge under 20 mins while traveling.



I must be still young enough to see this as a major annoyance to travel. 
I don't want to stop and dick around for 20-30 minutes when I'm on the 
road. I just want to go and keep going until I get to the destination.


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Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-26 Thread Josh Luthman

INB4 anal beads at the next AFMUG.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 7:35 PM  wrote:

> Only a very short few years ago was I even ever aware of such beads when
> my youngest daughter made reference of yanking on anal beads like you are
> trying to start a chainsaw.  I think she was trying to shock me but I was
> unaware of the idea so it did not work at the time.
>
> (This was my pure (so I thought) ,  youngest,  Mormon daughter BTW).
>
> Quite a revelation and quantum jump in worldliness for me.  Not that I am
> pure as the driven snow.  They refer to me as a Jack Mormon in Utah as I
> will now and then have a beer.
>
> But yeah, beads... not even something conjured in the imagination of my
> youth.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, November 25, 2019 5:21 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
>
> We can bigger anal balls just for you. We can even make them spiky for
> that extra thrill.
>
> Teslas don't need to idle for heat or AC. They have a heat exchanger that
> can run even when you're not in it (and provide a controlled environment
> for your toothless companion).
>
> You really don't need to ever go to a gas station, or even wait. I would
> imagine that a company with a fleet of these would have them all charged
> overnight and be able to go the day without having to waste anyone's time
> at a gas station.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 11/25/2019 4:14 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size
> beads to gain anything from them
>
> For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run a
> couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours to
> fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at the
> counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself
> with contempt and get on with your day
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you.
>>
>>
>> Why do you think this truck is less capable?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>
>> Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know
>> it yet.
>> I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns and
>> perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks
>> used to be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free
>> floormats these will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now
>> more an accessory than a necessity of function.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under
>>>> delivers?
>>>> B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced
>>>> truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul
>>>> a load over distance
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruc

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Ken Hohhof

Sorry, why did I type 83, 87 and 93, that should be 87, 89 and 93.

 

I remember Sunoco 260.  Was that really 102 octane?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 9:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

I don't drive a truck or an electric vehicle, but my Subaru is supposed to
get 93 octane gas.  Where I live, even the supermarket parking lots are
starting to have EV chargers, and every gas station has 83, 87 and 93 octane
gas.  They may or may not have diesel.  But when I go out into WISP land, no
EV chargers, the majority of gas stations only have 87 and 89 octane, but
they all have diesel.

 

Driving an EV truck in WISP land would feel like Mad Max driving off into
the wastelands, you need to be able to refuel.

 

Didn't Elon say something about a version with solar panels on the roof?
OK, not a solution at night.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 7:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

Doesn't AAA now have a fleet of tow trucks with 100kw generators on them,
just so they can go rescue people stranded with no charge?  

I like the idea of having an EV truck, but my general day goes something
like this 'Hit these 3 scheduled stops, total round trip 200 miles'  Then on
the way home  'UPS failure, 40 miles away'  No time to wait for a recharge
then.  

On 11/25/2019 7:04 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  wrote:

+1000

I love waving to the gas stations as I pass them by every day.

Not to mention never thinking of an oil change.  

 

From: Mathew Howard 

Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 6:00 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

It's pretty rare that I even have to think about it. It's honestly way more
convenient to just drive into the garage and plug a cord in everyday than
having to stop at a gas station a couple times a week...

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:36 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >
wrote:

You get really used to "bingo fuel" like you do in an aircraft.  Not a
problem.  

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:29 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

so you have to plot your workday based on access to sufficient charging
sources and 50 percent of your range? 

 

Dont get me wrong, these teslas are neat toys, they just dont have a
legitimate service use without the advent of the flux capacitor

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:27 PM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Steve, 

 

I don't believe you understand how fast charging is for Tesla. 

 

My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10%
battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.

 

With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a
near full charge under 20 mins while traveling. 

 

90% of my miles are charged at home in the garage, overnight. Most EV owners
are not charging at public chargers like we all do at gas stations today.
This is a fundamental change when buying an EV but it basically means you
have a full battery every morning. 

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:15 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size beads
to gain anything from them 

 

For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run a
couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours to
fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at the
counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself with
contempt and get on with your day

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you. 

 

 

Why do you think this truck is less capable?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Rotflmao,

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Ken Hohhof

I don't drive a truck or an electric vehicle, but my Subaru is supposed to
get 93 octane gas.  Where I live, even the supermarket parking lots are
starting to have EV chargers, and every gas station has 83, 87 and 93 octane
gas.  They may or may not have diesel.  But when I go out into WISP land, no
EV chargers, the majority of gas stations only have 87 and 89 octane, but
they all have diesel.

 

Driving an EV truck in WISP land would feel like Mad Max driving off into
the wastelands, you need to be able to refuel.

 

Didn't Elon say something about a version with solar panels on the roof?
OK, not a solution at night.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 7:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

Doesn't AAA now have a fleet of tow trucks with 100kw generators on them,
just so they can go rescue people stranded with no charge?  

I like the idea of having an EV truck, but my general day goes something
like this 'Hit these 3 scheduled stops, total round trip 200 miles'  Then on
the way home  'UPS failure, 40 miles away'  No time to wait for a recharge
then.  

On 11/25/2019 7:04 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  wrote:

+1000

I love waving to the gas stations as I pass them by every day.

Not to mention never thinking of an oil change.  

 

From: Mathew Howard 

Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 6:00 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

It's pretty rare that I even have to think about it. It's honestly way more
convenient to just drive into the garage and plug a cord in everyday than
having to stop at a gas station a couple times a week...

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:36 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >
wrote:

You get really used to "bingo fuel" like you do in an aircraft.  Not a
problem.  

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:29 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

so you have to plot your workday based on access to sufficient charging
sources and 50 percent of your range? 

 

Dont get me wrong, these teslas are neat toys, they just dont have a
legitimate service use without the advent of the flux capacitor

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:27 PM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Steve, 

 

I don't believe you understand how fast charging is for Tesla. 

 

My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10%
battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.

 

With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a
near full charge under 20 mins while traveling. 

 

90% of my miles are charged at home in the garage, overnight. Most EV owners
are not charging at public chargers like we all do at gas stations today.
This is a fundamental change when buying an EV but it basically means you
have a full battery every morning. 

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:15 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size beads
to gain anything from them 

 

For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run a
couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours to
fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at the
counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself with
contempt and get on with your day

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you. 

 

 

Why do you think this truck is less capable?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know it
yet.  

I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns and
perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks used
to be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free floormats
these will come with a free

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

+1000
I love waving to the gas stations as I pass them by every day.
Not to mention never thinking of an oil change.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 6:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

It's pretty rare that I even have to think about it. It's honestly way more 
convenient to just drive into the garage and plug a cord in everyday than 
having to stop at a gas station a couple times a week...

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:36 PM  wrote:

  You get really used to “bingo fuel” like you do in an aircraft.  Not a 
problem.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:29 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  so you have to plot your workday based on access to sufficient charging 
sources and 50 percent of your range? 

  Dont get me wrong, these teslas are neat toys, they just dont have a 
legitimate service use without the advent of the flux capacitor

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:27 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

Steve, 

I don't believe you understand how fast charging is for Tesla. 

My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10% 
battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.

With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a 
near full charge under 20 mins while traveling. 

90% of my miles are charged at home in the garage, overnight. Most EV 
owners are not charging at public chargers like we all do at gas stations 
today. This is a fundamental change when buying an EV but it basically means 
you have a full battery every morning. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:15 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size 
beads to gain anything from them 

  For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run 
a couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours to 
fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at the 
counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself with 
contempt and get on with your day

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you. 

Why do you think this truck is less capable?

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know 
it yet.  
I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns 
and perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks 
used to be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free floormats 
these will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now more an 
accessory than a necessity of function.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and 
under delivers? 
B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an 
overpriced truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to 
actually haul a load over distance

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard 
 wrote:

  Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing 
else. 

  I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly 
designed that way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the 
reason is because they can't stamp the stainless steel. 

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  
wrote:

I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, 
but at least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware 
for the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out 
how to squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles. 

I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the 
cybertruck is an effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with 
conventional trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason 
might be because the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to 
hydro-form.

bp

On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  Considering the size of it, and the fact that i

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Mathew Howard

It's pretty rare that I even have to think about it. It's honestly way more
convenient to just drive into the garage and plug a cord in everyday than
having to stop at a gas station a couple times a week...

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:36 PM  wrote:

> You get really used to “bingo fuel” like you do in an aircraft.  Not a
> problem.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, November 25, 2019 5:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
> so you have to plot your workday based on access to sufficient charging
> sources and 50 percent of your range?
>
> Dont get me wrong, these teslas are neat toys, they just dont have a
> legitimate service use without the advent of the flux capacitor
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:27 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I don't believe you understand how fast charging is for Tesla.
>>
>> My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10%
>> battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.
>>
>> With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect
>> a near full charge under 20 mins while traveling.
>>
>> 90% of my miles are charged at home in the garage, overnight. Most EV
>> owners are not charging at public chargers like we all do at gas stations
>> today. This is a fundamental change when buying an EV but it basically
>> means you have a full battery every morning.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:15 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size
>>> beads to gain anything from them
>>>
>>> For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run
>>> a couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours
>>> to fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at
>>> the counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself
>>> with contempt and get on with your day
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why do you think this truck is less capable?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>
>>>> Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know
>>>> it yet.
>>>> I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns
>>>> and perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks
>>>> used to be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free
>>>> floormats these will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now
>>>> more an accessory than a necessity of function.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I have 10 kW of solar and 20 kW at my office, so for the most part my car is 
solar powered.  

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

This is my daily driver and my other "fun" car next to my Tesla is a camaro zl1 
with 650hp. It screams but my Tesla is faster and more fun to drive from 0 to 
100mph. The camaro only sounds cool but it's worse at everything else. Slower, 
more costly, doesn't drive itself, worse audio, worse handling, tires spin when 
flooring it, small interior space, etc. 

I love both my cars but I choose to drive the Tesla everyday of the year and 
only take the camaro out about 5 times a year. There's a reason and it's that 
EV's are way more fun.

Yes, it requires a tiny bit of planning your route to make sure you have enough 
charge to go where you want to go. I don't have to think about it most days. 
Road trips are about the only planning required but there are superchargers 
everywhere I go, so no big deal at all.

At home on my level 2 charger, I add about 12% per hour and set my car to start 
charging at 1am when the grid is at low usage. I don't save any money but if I 
installed an off peak meter, I could get power for 4 cents per kwh. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:30 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  so you have to plot your workday based on access to sufficient charging 
sources and 50 percent of your range? 

  Dont get me wrong, these teslas are neat toys, they just dont have a 
legitimate service use without the advent of the flux capacitor

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:27 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

Steve, 

I don't believe you understand how fast charging is for Tesla. 

My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10% 
battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.

With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a 
near full charge under 20 mins while traveling. 

90% of my miles are charged at home in the garage, overnight. Most EV 
owners are not charging at public chargers like we all do at gas stations 
today. This is a fundamental change when buying an EV but it basically means 
you have a full battery every morning. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:15 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size 
beads to gain anything from them 

  For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run 
a couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours to 
fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at the 
counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself with 
contempt and get on with your day

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you. 

Why do you think this truck is less capable?

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know 
it yet.  
I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns 
and perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks 
used to be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free floormats 
these will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now more an 
accessory than a necessity of function.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and 
under delivers? 
B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an 
overpriced truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to 
actually haul a load over distance

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard 
 wrote:

  Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing 
else. 

  I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly 
designed that way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the 
reason is because they can't stamp the stainless steel. 

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  
wrote:

I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, 
but at least it's something to hang y

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

You get really used to “bingo fuel” like you do in an aircraft.  Not a problem. 

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

so you have to plot your workday based on access to sufficient charging sources 
and 50 percent of your range? 

Dont get me wrong, these teslas are neat toys, they just dont have a legitimate 
service use without the advent of the flux capacitor

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:27 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

  Steve, 

  I don't believe you understand how fast charging is for Tesla. 

  My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10% 
battery life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.

  With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a 
near full charge under 20 mins while traveling. 

  90% of my miles are charged at home in the garage, overnight. Most EV owners 
are not charging at public chargers like we all do at gas stations today. This 
is a fundamental change when buying an EV but it basically means you have a 
full battery every morning. 

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:15 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size 
beads to gain anything from them 

For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run a 
couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours to 
fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at the 
counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself with 
contempt and get on with your day

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you. 

  Why do you think this truck is less capable?

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Steve Jones" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know 
it yet.  
  I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns and 
perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks used to 
be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free floormats these 
will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now more an accessory 
than a necessity of function.

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

  A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and 
under delivers? 
  B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an 
overpriced truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to 
actually haul a load over distance

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard  
wrote:

Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing 
else. 

I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly 
designed that way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the 
reason is because they can't stamp the stainless steel. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  
wrote:

  I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but 
at least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for 
the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out how to 
squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles. 

  I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the 
cybertruck is an effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with 
conventional trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason 
might be because the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to 
hydro-form.

bp

On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made 
out of relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can 
get 250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge 
improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe 
would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get 
that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on the 
base model is a lot more likely. 

MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an 
electric vs gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out 
what

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

+|1000

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:26 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Steve, 

I don't believe you understand how fast charging is for Tesla. 

My model 3 can charge at up to 150KW so if I pull into a charger at 10% battery 
life and charge to 80%, it only takes about half hour.

With V3 of their supercharger, the rate increased to 250KW peak so expect a 
near full charge under 20 mins while traveling. 

90% of my miles are charged at home in the garage, overnight. Most EV owners 
are not charging at public chargers like we all do at gas stations today. This 
is a fundamental change when buying an EV but it basically means you have a 
full battery every morning. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 6:15 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  at this point life has fucked me enough that id need bowling ball size beads 
to gain anything from them 

  For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC. You dont run a 
couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work truck, then stop for hours to 
fuel it up, you stop at the gas station, hit on the toothless broad at the 
counter, grab your energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself with 
contempt and get on with your day

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you. 

Why do you think this truck is less capable?

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know it 
yet.  
I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns and 
perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks used to 
be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free floormats these 
will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now more an accessory 
than a necessity of function.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under 
delivers? 
B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced 
truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul a 
load over distance

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard  
wrote:

  Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing 
else. 

  I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed 
that way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is 
because they can't stamp the stainless steel. 

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  
wrote:

I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but 
at least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for 
the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out how to 
squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles. 

I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck 
is an effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional 
trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be because 
the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form.

bp

On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made 
out of relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can 
get 250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge 
improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe 
would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get 
that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on the 
base model is a lot more likely. 

  MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an 
electric vs gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out 
what the actual cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works 
out to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've 
been closer to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and the 
cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas. 

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince  
wrote:

I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the 
batteries would be

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
We can bigger anal balls just for you. We can even make them
  spiky for that extra thrill.

Teslas don't need to idle for heat or AC. They have a heat
  exchanger that can run even when you're not in it (and provide a
  controlled environment for your toothless companion).
You really don't need to ever go to a gas station, or even wait.
  I would imagine that a company with a fleet of these would have
  them all charged overnight and be able to go the day without
  having to waste anyone's time at a gas station.


bp



On 11/25/2019 4:14 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  at this point life has fucked me enough that id
need bowling ball size beads to gain anything from them


For one, a work truck idles for power, for heat and for AC.
  You dont run a couple hundred miles or a few hours in a work
  truck, then stop for hours to fuel it up, you stop at the gas
  station, hit on the toothless broad at the counter, grab your
  energy drink, look in the shitter mirror at yourself with
  contempt and get on with your day
  
  
  
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:03
  PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:


  
I
  figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you.
  
  
  
  
  Why do you think this truck is less capable?


  
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing
Solutions
  
  Midwest Internet Exchange
  
  The Brothers WISP
  


  


From:
  "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
  Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  
  Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody
wanted, even if they didnt know it yet. 
I guess i just come from a time before men wore
  skinny jeans, manbuns and perfectly tailored
  lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean.
  Trucks used to be a thing men used to do man shit.
  I assume instead of free floormats these will come
  with a free set of anal beads since tools are now
  more an accessory than a necessity of function.
  
  
  
On Mon, Nov 25,
  2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
  wrote:


  Steve let me introduce to this
company called Apple.

Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  
  
  
On Mon, Nov
  25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  A. Why does musk get a free
pass every time he over promises and under
delivers?
B. Why would anybody with any modicum
  of testosterone buy an overpriced truck
  that doesnt have real cargo capacity or
  the ability to actually haul a load over
  distance
  
  
  
On Mon,
  Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  
Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing
  electric vehicles, if nothing else.
  
  
  I agree, I got the
impression that the cybertruck is
mainly designed that way for

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Mike Hammett

I figured the anal beads would be the up sell for you. 




Why do you think this truck is less capable? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 5:56:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck 


Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know it yet. 
I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns and 
perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks used to 
be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free floormats these 
will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now more an accessory 
than a necessity of function. 


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple. 


Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under 
delivers? 
B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced truck 
that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul a load 
over distance 


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else. 


I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed that way 
for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is because 
they can't stamp the stainless steel. 



On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at least it's 
something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for the model 3 
comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out how to squeeze 
more efficiency out of their vehicles. 

I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is an effort 
to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional trucks) is 
very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be because the 
material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form. 

bp
 
On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: 



Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of 
relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get 250 
miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge improvements in 
efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe would be the same as 
the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get that much better over 
the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on the base model is a lot 
more likely. 


MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric vs gas 
vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the actual 
cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works out to the 
equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've been closer to 
70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and the cost of 
electricity is way more consistent than gas. 


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the batteries would 
be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the base model with 250 
mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of course it is 
pure speculation, but that would result in about 111 MPGe. Can't do that with 
your diesel Silverado. 

bp
 
On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote: 


I think I figured out the design... Prototype name was the Cyberf117 



On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back. 




From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck 


Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the 
nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys 


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak. 
bp
 
On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy. 
https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/ 

Stabby Steve would like it. 

I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was a non 
functional prototype just for show. 




From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert 
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck 

Oh, he

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Steve Jones

Rotflmao, apple had a product everybody wanted, even if they didnt know it
yet.
I guess i just come from a time before men wore skinny jeans, manbuns and
perfectly tailored lumberjack shirts that stay impeccably clean. Trucks
used to be a thing men used to do man shit. I assume instead of free
floormats these will come with a free set of anal beads since tools are now
more an accessory than a necessity of function.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 5:41 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under
>> delivers?
>> B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced
>> truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul
>> a load over distance
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else.
>>>
>>> I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed
>>> that way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the
>>> reason is because they can't stamp the stainless steel.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at
>>>> least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for
>>>> the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out
>>>> how to squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is
>>>> an effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with
>>>> conventional trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason
>>>> might be because the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to
>>>> hydro-form.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of
>>>> relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get
>>>> 250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
>>>> improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe
>>>> would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get
>>>> that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on
>>>> the base model is a lot more likely.
>>>>
>>>> MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric
>>>> vs gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what
>>>> the actual cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works
>>>> out to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've
>>>> been closer to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and
>>>> the cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the
>>>>> batteries would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the
>>>>> base model with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh
>>>>> battery. Of course it is pure speculation, but that would result in about
>>>>> 111 MPGe. Can't do that with your diesel Silverado.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>>
>>>>> Tesla production models roaming the street

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Josh Luthman

Steve let me introduce to this company called Apple.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 3:46 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under
> delivers?
> B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced
> truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul
> a load over distance
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else.
>>
>> I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed that
>> way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is
>> because they can't stamp the stainless steel.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at
>>> least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for
>>> the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out
>>> how to squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles.
>>>
>>> I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is an
>>> effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional
>>> trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be
>>> because the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of
>>> relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get
>>> 250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
>>> improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe
>>> would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get
>>> that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on
>>> the base model is a lot more likely.
>>>
>>> MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric
>>> vs gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what
>>> the actual cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works
>>> out to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've
>>> been closer to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and
>>> the cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the
>>>> batteries would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the
>>>> base model with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh
>>>> battery. Of course it is pure speculation, but that would result in about
>>>> 111 MPGe. Can't do that with your diesel Silverado.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>
>>>> Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the
>>>> nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Stabby Steve would like it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>&

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Mike Hammett

>From what I've seen, it has more cargo capacity than a regular pickup. 


How long is a piece of string? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 2:45:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck 


A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under 
delivers? 
B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced truck 
that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul a load 
over distance 


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else. 


I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed that way 
for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is because 
they can't stamp the stainless steel. 



On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at least it's 
something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for the model 3 
comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out how to squeeze 
more efficiency out of their vehicles. 

I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is an effort 
to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional trucks) is 
very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be because the 
material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form. 

bp
 
On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: 



Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of 
relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get 250 
miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge improvements in 
efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe would be the same as 
the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get that much better over 
the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on the base model is a lot 
more likely. 


MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric vs gas 
vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the actual 
cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works out to the 
equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've been closer to 
70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and the cost of 
electricity is way more consistent than gas. 


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the batteries would 
be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the base model with 250 
mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of course it is 
pure speculation, but that would result in about 111 MPGe. Can't do that with 
your diesel Silverado. 

bp
 
On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote: 


I think I figured out the design... Prototype name was the Cyberf117 



On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back. 




From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck 


Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the 
nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys 


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak. 
bp
 
On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy. 
https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/ 

Stabby Steve would like it. 

I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was a non 
functional prototype just for show. 




From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert 
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck 

Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a 
$4K/cupholder CREDIT... 

On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 


I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were two of 
them. 
bp  

On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote: 


Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada… 









On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Yeah. Only $4K each. 
bp  

On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: 



woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?! 



On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews < i...@avantwireless.com > 
wrote: 


Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders 
finally, Sound system? More like 15... 

On 11/22/2019

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Ken Hohhof

Am I the only one who thinks it looks like an updated Volkswagen Thing?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 2:59 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

1 - I think he's been plenty brutalized (have you read Seeking Alpha, Forbes, 
or Motley Fool lately?). If you're going to fly with the eagles, be prepared to 
get shot down. There are lots and lots of shorts on their stock.

2 - If you're talking about the cybertruck, I don't think it's actually 
overpriced. I think the price is right in the ballpark for full size half ton 
pickups. It also has almost double the cargo capacity of any the existing 
half-ton pickups. I think 250 miles is probably OK for the base model. If you 
need more range, there are options for that.

Of course, none of it is real yet. People will be quick to point out anything 
that doesn't pan out when (if?) it actually reaches production. BTW - The specs 
literally smoke the Rivian (which also is not real).

bp

On 11/25/2019 12:45 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under 
delivers? 

B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced truck 
that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul a load 
over distance

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else. 

I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed that way 
for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is because 
they can't stamp the stainless steel. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at least it's 
something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for the model 3 
comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out how to squeeze 
more efficiency out of their vehicles. 

I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is an effort 
to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional trucks) is 
very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be because the 
material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form.

bp

On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of 
relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get 250 
miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge improvements in 
efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe would be the same as 
the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get that much better over 
the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on the base model is a lot 
more likely. 

MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric vs gas 
vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the actual 
cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works out to the 
equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've been closer to 
70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and the cost of 
electricity is way more consistent than gas. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the batteries would 
be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the base model with 250 
mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of course it is 
pure speculation, but that would result in about 111 MPGe. Can't do that with 
your diesel Silverado.

bp

On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:

I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117

On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.  

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the 
nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.

bp

On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/

Stabby Steve would like it.

I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was a non 
functional prototype just for show.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a 
$4K/cuph

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  be on this thing. Only one publication
  speculated that the base model with 250
  mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a
  ~~ 75KWh battery. Of course it is pure
  speculation, but that would result in
  about 111 MPGe. Can't do that with your
  diesel Silverado.


bp



On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:

 I think I
figured out the design...   Prototype
name was the Cyberf117

  
  On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown
wrote:
  
  

  
I want one with a Boston
  Scientific dog in the back.  

  
 

  From: Steve
  Jones 
  Sent: Sunday,
November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re:
        [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  
   


  Tesla production models
roaming the streets is scary
enough without the nightmare of
prototypes creeping through the
alleys
   
  
On Sat, Nov 23,
  2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince
  <part15...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  
There may be prototypes
  roaming the streets as we
  speak.
 
bp



On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM,
  Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but
the inside is comfy.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
 
Stabby Steve would like it.
 
I was surprise they were taking it on test
drives, I had
assumed it was a non
functional prototype
just for show.
 
 

  
From:
AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of
Robert
Sent:
Friday, November
22, 2019 7:58 PM

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Steve Jones

A. Why does musk get a free pass every time he over promises and under
delivers?
B. Why would anybody with any modicum of testosterone buy an overpriced
truck that doesnt have real cargo capacity or the ability to actually haul
a load over distance

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 1:46 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else.
>
> I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed that
> way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is
> because they can't stamp the stainless steel.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at
>> least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for
>> the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out
>> how to squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles.
>>
>> I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is an
>> effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional
>> trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be
>> because the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of
>> relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get
>> 250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
>> improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe
>> would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get
>> that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on
>> the base model is a lot more likely.
>>
>> MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric
>> vs gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what
>> the actual cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works
>> out to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've
>> been closer to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and
>> the cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the
>>> batteries would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the
>>> base model with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh
>>> battery. Of course it is pure speculation, but that would result in about
>>> 111 MPGe. Can't do that with your diesel Silverado.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>
>>> Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the
>>> nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>>> There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stabby Steve would like it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was
>>>> a non functional prototype just for show.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Robert
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Mathew Howard

Yeah, MPGe is useful for comparing electric vehicles, if nothing else.

I agree, I got the impression that the cybertruck is mainly designed that
way for functional reasons. Elon Musk even said that part of the reason is
because they can't stamp the stainless steel.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 11:02 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but at least
> it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest firmware for the
> model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is apparently figuring out how to
> squeeze more efficiency out of their vehicles.
>
> I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the cybertruck is an
> effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform that (with conventional
> trucks) is very unfriendly toward aerodynamics. Another reason might be
> because the material (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of
> relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get
> 250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
> improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe
> would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get
> that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on
> the base model is a lot more likely.
>
> MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric vs
> gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the
> actual cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works out
> to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've
> been closer to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and
> the cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas.
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the batteries
>> would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the base model
>> with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of
>> course it is pure speculation, but that would result in about 111 MPGe.
>> Can't do that with your diesel Silverado.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
>>
>> I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117
>>
>>
>> On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>
>> Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the
>> nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.
>>>
>>> https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stabby Steve would like it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was
>>> a non functional prototype just for show.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Robert
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a
>>> $4K/cupholder CREDIT...
>>>
>>> On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were
>>> two of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:
>>>
>>> Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah. Only $4K each.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> b

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
I might also add that it's notable that the model 3 goes 250
  miles now on a 60KWh battery. I would call that a pretty big
  difference considering that we're just (mainly) talking about a
  battery and an electric motor.


bp



On 11/25/2019 9:03 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I have 62 kWh in my leaf.  I can reliably get 175 miles
with some reserve.  
  

   
  
From: Mathew
Howard 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 9:53 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  

 
  
  
Considering the size of it, and the fact that
  it's mostly made out of relatively thick stainless steel,
  I have a hard time believing they can get 250 miles out of
  a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
  improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's
  lifespan, but 111 MPGe would be the same as the current
  Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get that much
  better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh
  battery on the base model is a lot more likely.
   
  MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the
cost of an electric vs gas vehicle... my model S is
rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the actual
cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it
works out to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not
too long ago, that would've been closer to 70 MPG (and
most likely will be again before too long), and the cost
of electricity is way more consistent than gas. 

 

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at
9:44 AM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  

  I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about
what size the batteries would be on this thing. Only
one publication speculated that the base model with
250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~
75KWh battery. Of course it is pure speculation, but
that would result in about 111 MPGe. Can't do that
with your diesel Silverado.
   
  bp



  On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
  
  I think I figured out the
  design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117
  

On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:


  

  I want one with a Boston Scientific dog
in the back.  
  

   
  
From: Steve Jones

Sent: Sunday, November 24,
  2019 4:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
  Cybertruck
  

 
  
  
Tesla production models roaming the
  streets is scary enough without the
  nightmare of prototypes creeping through
  the alleys
 

  On Sat,
Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  

  There may be prototypes roaming the
streets as we speak.
   
  bp



  On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:
  
  

  Review
  says the exterior is all

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
That comes to ~~ 94 MPGe, which is not exactly chopped liver.


bp



On 11/25/2019 9:03 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I have 62 kWh in my leaf.  I can reliably get 175 miles
with some reserve.  
  

   
  
From: Mathew
Howard 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 9:53 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  

 
  
  
Considering the size of it, and the fact that
  it's mostly made out of relatively thick stainless steel,
  I have a hard time believing they can get 250 miles out of
  a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
  improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's
  lifespan, but 111 MPGe would be the same as the current
  Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get that much
  better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh
  battery on the base model is a lot more likely.
   
  MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the
cost of an electric vs gas vehicle... my model S is
rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the actual
cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it
works out to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not
too long ago, that would've been closer to 70 MPG (and
most likely will be again before too long), and the cost
of electricity is way more consistent than gas. 

 

  On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at
9:44 AM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  

  I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about
what size the batteries would be on this thing. Only
one publication speculated that the base model with
250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~
75KWh battery. Of course it is pure speculation, but
that would result in about 111 MPGe. Can't do that
with your diesel Silverado.
   
  bp



  On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
  
  I think I figured out the
  design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117
  

On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:


  

  I want one with a Boston Scientific dog
in the back.  
  

   
  
From: Steve Jones

Sent: Sunday, November 24,
  2019 4:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
  Cybertruck
  

 
  
  
Tesla production models roaming the
  streets is scary enough without the
  nightmare of prototypes creeping through
  the alleys
 

  On Sat,
Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  

  There may be prototypes roaming the
streets as we speak.
   
  bp



  On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:
  
  

  Review
  says the exterior is all
  “stabby” but the inside is
  comfy.
  https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impr

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

I have 62 kWh in my leaf.  I can reliably get 175 miles with some reserve.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 9:53 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of 
relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get 250 
miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge improvements in 
efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe would be the same as 
the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get that much better over 
the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on the base model is a lot 
more likely. 

MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric vs gas 
vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the actual 
cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works out to the 
equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've been closer to 
70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and the cost of 
electricity is way more consistent than gas. 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

  I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the batteries 
would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the base model 
with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of course 
it is pure speculation, but that would result in about 111 MPGe. Can't do that 
with your diesel Silverado.

bp

On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:

I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117

On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the 
nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys

  On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.

bp

On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.

  https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/

  Stabby Steve would like it.

  I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it 
was a non functional prototype just for show.

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a 
$4K/cupholder CREDIT...

  On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there 
were two of them.

bp On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:

  Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada… 

On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince  
wrote:

Yeah. Only $4K each.

bp On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!

  On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews 
 wrote:

Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you 
cupholders 
finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...

On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got 
a 4 cylinder 
> Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too 
underpowered) base model 
> and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power 
windows/locks/etc.
> 
> Porsche on the other hand requires you have something 
like $8k in 
> options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the 
bluetooth to do 
> audio as well.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett 
 <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> 
> It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a 
manufacturer makes
> probably is missing a variety of features one is used 
to.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hamme

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
I agree that the calculus for MPGe is probably not realistic, but
  at least it's something to hang your hat on for now. The latest
  firmware for the model 3 comes in at ~~ 140 MPGe, so Tesla is
  apparently figuring out how to squeeze more efficiency out of
  their vehicles. 

I think one of the reasons for the radical shape of the
  cybertruck is an effort to get some aerodynamics out of a platform
  that (with conventional trucks) is very unfriendly toward
  aerodynamics. Another reason might be because the material
  (stainless steel) is pretty difficult to hydro-form.


bp



On 11/25/2019 8:53 AM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's
mostly made out of relatively thick stainless steel, I have a
hard time believing they can get 250 miles out of a 75kwh
battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge improvements in
efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe would
be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely
they'll get that much better over the next couple of years. I
think a 100kwh battery on the base model is a lot more likely.


MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of
  an electric vs gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe,
  but if I figure out what the actual cost per mile is compared
  to current gas prices here, it works out to the equivalent of
  around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've been closer
  to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and
  the cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas. 
  
  
  
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44
  AM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:


  
I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what
  size the batteries would be on this thing. Only one
  publication speculated that the base model with 250 mile
  range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of
  course it is pure speculation, but that would result in
  about 111 MPGe. Can't do that with your diesel Silverado.


bp



On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:

 I think I figured out the
design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117

  
  On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
  
  

  
I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the
  back.  

  
 

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019
4:46 PM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  
   


  Tesla production models roaming the streets
is scary enough without the nightmare of
prototypes creeping through the alleys
   
  
On Sat, Nov
  23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  
There may be prototypes roaming the
  streets as we speak.
 
bp



On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
Review says
the exterior is all “stabby” but the
inside is comfy.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
 
Stabby
Steve would like it.
 
I was
surprise they were taking it on test
drives, I had assumed it was a non
functional prototype just for show.

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-25 Thread Mathew Howard

Considering the size of it, and the fact that it's mostly made out of
relatively thick stainless steel, I have a hard time believing they can get
250 miles out of a 75kwh battery pack. Granted, Tesla has made huge
improvements in efficiency on the model S over it's lifespan, but 111 MPGe
would be the same as the current Model S, and it seems unlikely they'll get
that much better over the next couple of years. I think a 100kwh battery on
the base model is a lot more likely.

MPGe isn't exactly an accurate way of comparing the cost of an electric vs
gas vehicle... my model S is rated at 89 MPGe, but if I figure out what the
actual cost per mile is compared to current gas prices here, it works out
to the equivalent of around 50 MPG. But not too long ago, that would've
been closer to 70 MPG (and most likely will be again before too long), and
the cost of electricity is way more consistent than gas.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the batteries
> would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated that the base model
> with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of
> course it is pure speculation, but that would result in about 111 MPGe.
> Can't do that with your diesel Silverado.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the Cyberf117
>
>
> On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
> Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the
> nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys
>
> On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.
>>
>> https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
>>
>>
>>
>> Stabby Steve would like it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was a
>> non functional prototype just for show.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a
>> $4K/cupholder CREDIT...
>>
>> On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were two
>> of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:
>>
>> Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada…
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah. Only $4K each.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders
>> finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...
>>
>> On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>> > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4 cylinder
>> > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) base
>> model
>> > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
>> >
>> > Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in
>> > options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the bluetooth to do
>> > audio as well.
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett > > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a manufacturer makes
>> > probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
>> >
>> >
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
I was scouring the net trying to get a clue about what size the
  batteries would be on this thing. Only one publication speculated
  that the base model with 250 mile range (the $39,900 one) would
  have a ~~ 75KWh battery. Of course it is pure speculation, but
  that would result in about 111 MPGe. Can't do that with your
  diesel Silverado.


bp



On 11/24/2019 7:36 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  I think I figured out the design...   Prototype name was the
Cyberf117

  
  On 11/24/19 6:20 PM, Chuck McCown
wrote:
  
  


  
I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.  

  
 

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

  
   


  Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary
enough without the nightmare of prototypes creeping
through the alleys
   
  
On Sat, Nov 23, 2019,
  10:27 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  
There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we
  speak.
 
bp



On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
Review says the exterior is all
“stabby” but the inside is comfy.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
 
Stabby Steve would like it.
 
I was surprise they were taking
it on test drives, I had assumed it was a
non functional prototype just for show.
 
 

  
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019
7:58 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  

 
Oh, he didn't opt
  for the cupholder delete option, which
  comes with a $4K/cupholder CREDIT...

  On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill
Prince wrote:


  I was just going by what Robert said as
$8K, and I figured there were two of them.
   
  bp
  
   
  
On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM,
  Tim Hardy wrote:
  
  
Umm, Bill - fake news.
  Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada… 

   
  

  


  
On Nov 22,
  2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
  wrote:
  
   
  

  Yeah. Only
$4K each.
   
  bp
  
   
  
On
  11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew
  Howard wrote:
  
  

  woah! you
can ge

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-24 Thread Chuck McCown

I want one with a Boston Scientific dog in the back.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the 
nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.



bp


On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/



Stabby Steve would like it.



I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was a 
non functional prototype just for show.





From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck



Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a 
$4K/cupholder CREDIT...

On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

  I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were two 
of them.



bp On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:

Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada… 







  On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:



  Yeah. Only $4K each.



bp On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!



On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews 
 wrote:

  Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders 
  finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...

  On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
  > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4 
cylinder 
  > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) 
base model 
  > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
  > 
  > Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k 
in 
  > options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the 
bluetooth to do 
  > audio as well.
  > 
  > Josh Luthman
  > Office: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
  > 
  > 
  > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett  <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
  > 
  > It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a 
manufacturer makes
  > probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -
  > Mike Hammett
  > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
  > 
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
  > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
  > 
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
  > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
  > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
  > 
  > 
  > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
  > 

  > *From: *"Josh Luthman"  <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
  > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
  > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
  > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  > 
  > Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
  > 
  > Josh Luthman
  > Office: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
  > 
  > 
  > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett 
 <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
  > 
  > Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-24 Thread Steve Jones

Tesla production models roaming the streets is scary enough without the
nightmare of prototypes creeping through the alleys

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.
>
> https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/
>
>
>
> Stabby Steve would like it.
>
>
>
> I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was a
> non functional prototype just for show.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
>
>
> Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a
> $4K/cupholder CREDIT...
>
> On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were two
> of them.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:
>
> Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada…
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>
>
> Yeah. Only $4K each.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders
> finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...
>
> On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4 cylinder
> > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) base model
> > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
> >
> > Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in
> > options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the bluetooth to do
> > audio as well.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett  > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a manufacturer makes
> > probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >
>  
> > *From: *"Josh Luthman"  > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> >
> > Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett  > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdw

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-23 Thread Bill Prince

There may be prototypes roaming the streets as we speak.

bp

On 11/23/2019 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:

Review says
the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/

Stabby Steve
would like it.

I was
surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed
it was a non functional prototype just for show.

From: AF
 On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

Oh, he didn't opt for the
  cupholder delete option, which comes with a $4K/cupholder
  CREDIT...

  On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

  I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured
there were two of them.

  bp

On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:

Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016
  Cayman GTS for nada… 

On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM,
  Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
  wrote:

  Yeah.
Only $4K each.

  bp

On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM,
  Mathew Howard wrote:

  woah! you can get
cupholders in a Porsche these days?!

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at
  3:30 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
  wrote:

Having gone through
  Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you
  cupholders 
  finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...

  On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman
  wrote:
  > Toyota is super nice when it comes to
  base models.  I got a 4 cylinder 
  > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6,
  it's way too underpowered) base model 
  > and it has touchscreen with
  bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
  > 
  > Porsche on the other hand requires
  you have something like $8k in 
  > options for that feature.  Another
  $2k if you want the bluetooth to do 
  > audio as well.
  > 
  > Josh Luthman
  > Office: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
  > 
  > 
  > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike
  Hammett <af...@ics-il.net

  > af...@ics-il.net>>
  wrote:
  > 
  >     It was mostly a dig at the lowest
  priced option a manufacturer makes
  >     probably is missing a variety of
  features one is used to.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >     -
  >     Mike Hammett
  >     Intelligent Computing Solutions
  <http://www.ics-il.com/>
  >     <https://www.

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-23 Thread Ken Hohhof

Review says the exterior is all “stabby” but the inside is comfy.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-impressions-ride/

 

Stabby Steve would like it.

 

I was surprise they were taking it on test drives, I had assumed it was a non 
functional prototype just for show.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:58 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a 
$4K/cupholder CREDIT...

On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were two of 
them.

 

bp

 

On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:

Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada… 

 





On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Yeah. Only $4K each.

 

bp

 

On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!

 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders 
finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...

On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4 cylinder 
> Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) base model 
> and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
> 
> Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in 
> options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the bluetooth to do 
> audio as well.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett  <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>  
> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> >> wrote:
> 
> It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a manufacturer makes
> probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> 
> *From: *"Josh Luthman"  <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> 
> <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> 
> >>
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>
> *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> 
> Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett  <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> 
> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> >> wrote:
> 
> Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> 
> 
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> 
> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Robert

Oh, he didn't opt for the cupholder delete option, which comes with a 
$4K/cupholder CREDIT...


On 11/22/19 4:53 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were 
two of them.



bp


On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:

Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada…


On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Yeah. Only $4K each.


bp


On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:


Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders
finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...

On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4
cylinder
> Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered)
base model
> and it has touchscreen with bluetooth. Power windows/locks/etc.
>
> Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like
$8k in
> options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the
bluetooth to do
> audio as well.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>
>     It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a
manufacturer makes
>     probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
>
>
>
>     -
>     Mike Hammett
>     Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>   
 
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>     Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>   
 
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>     The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>     <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
>     <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>
 
>     *From: *"Josh Luthman" mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>     <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>
>     *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>     <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
>     *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
>     *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
>     Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
>
>     Josh Luthman
>     Office: 937-552-2340
>     Direct: 937-552-2343
>     1100 Wayne St
>     Suite 1337
>     Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>     On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
>     <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>
>         Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
>
>
>
>         -
>         Mike Hammett
>         Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>       
 
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>         Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>       
 
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>         The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>         <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
>       
 <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>
 
>         *From: *"Matt Hoppes"
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
    >         <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>>
>         *To: *"Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>
>         <mailto:mhoward

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Ken Hohhof

Maybe German cars come with stein holders?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 6:54 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

 

I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there were two of 
them.

 

bp

 

On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:

Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada… 

 





On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Yeah. Only $4K each.

 

bp

 

On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!

 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders 
finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...

On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4 cylinder 
> Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) base model 
> and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
> 
> Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in 
> options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the bluetooth to do 
> audio as well.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett  <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>  
> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> >> wrote:
> 
> It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a manufacturer makes
> probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> 
> *From: *"Josh Luthman"  <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> 
> <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> 
> >>
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>
> *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> 
> Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett  <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> 
> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> >> wrote:
> 
> Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> 
> 
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> 
> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >>
> *To: *"Mathew Howard"  <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> 
> <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >>, 
> "AnimalFarm Microwave Users
> Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  
> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com&

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
I was just going by what Robert said as $8K, and I figured there
  were two of them.


bp



On 11/22/2019 4:51 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:


  
  Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada…
  

  
On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  
  
Yeah. Only $4K each.


bp



On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM,
  Mathew Howard wrote:


  
  woah! you can get cupholders
in a Porsche these days?!
  
  
On Fri, Nov 22,
  2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
  wrote:

Having gone
  through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you
  cupholders 
  finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...
  
  On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
  > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base
  models.  I got a 4 cylinder 
  > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way
  too underpowered) base model 
  > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power
  windows/locks/etc.
  > 
  > Porsche on the other hand requires you have
  something like $8k in 
  > options for that feature.  Another $2k if you
  want the bluetooth to do 
  > audio as well.
  > 
  > Josh Luthman
  > Office: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
  > 
  > 
  > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett
  <af...@ics-il.net
  
  > af...@ics-il.net>>
  wrote:
  > 
  >     It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced
  option a manufacturer makes
  >     probably is missing a variety of features
  one is used to.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >     -
  >     Mike Hammett
  >     Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
  >     <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
  >     Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
  >     <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
  >     The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
  >     <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
  > 
  > 
  >     <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
  >   
 
  >     *From: *"Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
  >     j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
  >     *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
  <af@af.afmug.com
  >     af@af.afmug.com>>
  >     *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33
  PM
  >     *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  > 
  >     Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
  > 
  >     Josh Luthman
  >     Office: 937-552-2340
  >     Direct: 937-552-2343
  >     1100 Wayne St
  >     Suite 1337
  >     Troy, OH 45373
  > 
  > 
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Tim Hardy

Umm, Bill - fake news. Came in my 2016 Cayman GTS for nada…


> On Nov 22, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Yeah. Only $4K each.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>> woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>> Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders 
>> finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...
>> 
>> On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>> > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4 cylinder 
>> > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) base model 
>> > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
>> > 
>> > Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in 
>> > options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the bluetooth to do 
>> > audio as well.
>> > 
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett > > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> 
>> > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>> > 
>> > It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a manufacturer makes
>> > probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -
>> > Mike Hammett
>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/ 
>> > <http://www.ics-il.com/>>
>> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL 
>> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb
>> >  
>> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions
>> >  
>> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
>> >  <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
>> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/ 
>> > <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>>
>> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix 
>> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>> >  
>> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>> >  <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ 
>> > <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp 
>> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>> > 
>> > 
>> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg 
>> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>> > 
>> > 
>> > *From: *"Josh Luthman" > > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
>> > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>
>> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>> > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
>> > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
>> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>> > 
>> > Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
>> > 
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett > > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
>> > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -
>> > Mike Hammett
>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/ 
>> > <http://www.ics-il.com/>>
>> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL 
>> > <https://

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
Speaking to a friend with a M3, he says he can postpone updates
  as long as he wants, but he generally doesn't.

bp



On 11/22/2019 3:49 PM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  I'm pretty sure Tesla has an option you can turn on
to get updates sooner, or let it wait until it feels like
updating... I don't think mine got the last major update until
at least a few weeks after it was released.
  
  
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 5:27
  PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

&
  unfortunately, you cannot decide to wait till version 2 comes
  out, if 
  they decide to release a 1.1test, you get it...  At least
  that's what my 
  buddy was telling (whining) me...
  
  On 11/22/2019 03:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
  > You have to be aware of the firmware version when talking
  about a Tesla. 
  > The firmware is more important than the model year
  because they are 
  > updating it fairly often.
  > 
  > 
  > bp
  > 
  > 
  > On 11/22/2019 1:02 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  >> They have that ability and do it.  BUT the
  programming has had some 
  >> serious errors for different conditions.   When the X
  first came out 
  >> there were a bunch of people stuck at Tahoe with
  them.   Now, a bunch 
  >> of them came up with tires very much not suited for
  the conditions and 
  >> no amount of slippage control would fix that, but
  there were 
  >> complaints from people who actually had snow tires
  on.   I also heard 
  >> that situation is much improved..   Even with the
  much lower S.
  >>
  >> On 11/22/2019 11:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
  >>> Supposedly, their computer can manage the
  slippage on a per-wheel 
  >>> basis to get any traction that might be available
  instead of blind 
  >>> power. Supposedly.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> -
  >>> Mike Hammett
  >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
  >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
  
  >>>
  >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
  >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
  
  >>>
  >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
  >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
  >>>
  
  >>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
  >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
  >>> *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 12:49:37 PM
  >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  >>>
  >>> With the torque of electric motors, probably no
  snow tires in the 
  >>> world would be enough, maybe convert to tracks.
  >>>
  >>> *From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On
  Behalf Of *Robert
  >>> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 10:59 AM
  >>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
  >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  >>>
  >>> It's up on their website now.   A winch, my life
  for a winch. But 
  >>> that with 500 mile range for 60K and I could
  replace the power wagon 
  >>> with it...   Specially with and additional 6
  inches of clearance and 
  >>> nothing to block snow under the body, so it would
  slide on top 
  >>> easier.   It might just make a pretty good snow
  machine!
  >>>
  >>> On 11/22/19 7:49 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
  >>>
  >>>     The range(s) were listed as 200-500 depending
  on battery pack. The
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Matt Hoppes


The Toyota comes with at least 12 for free.. lol

On 11/22/19 7:37 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Yeah. Only $4K each.


bp


On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:


Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders
finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...

On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4
cylinder
> Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered)
base model
> and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
>
> Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in
> options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the bluetooth
to do
> audio as well.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>
>     It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a
manufacturer makes
>     probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
>
>
>
>     -
>     Mike Hammett
>     Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>   
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

>     Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>   
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

>     The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>     <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
>     <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>
 
>     *From: *"Josh Luthman" mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>     <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>
>     *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>     <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
>     *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
>     *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
>     Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
>
>     Josh Luthman
>     Office: 937-552-2340
>     Direct: 937-552-2343
>     1100 Wayne St
>     Suite 1337
>     Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>     On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
>     <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>> wrote:
>
>         Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
>
>
>
>         -
>         Mike Hammett
>         Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>   
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

>         Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>   
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

>         The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>         <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
>         <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>
 
>         *From: *"Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>         <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>>
>         *To: *"Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>
>         <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com
<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>>, "AnimalFarm Microwave Users
>         Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
>         *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:49:15 PM
>         *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>
&g

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck


  
  
Yeah. Only $4K each.


bp



On 11/22/2019 3:51 PM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these
days?!
  
  
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30
  PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

Having
  gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders 
  finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...
  
  On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
  > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got
  a 4 cylinder 
  > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too
  underpowered) base model 
  > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power
  windows/locks/etc.
  > 
  > Porsche on the other hand requires you have something
  like $8k in 
  > options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the
  bluetooth to do 
  > audio as well.
  > 
  > Josh Luthman
  > Office: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
  > 
  > 
  > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
  > af...@ics-il.net>>
  wrote:
  > 
  >     It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a
  manufacturer makes
  >     probably is missing a variety of features one is used
  to.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >     -
  >     Mike Hammett
  >     Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
  >     <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
  >     Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
  >     <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
  >     The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
  >     <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
  > 
  > 
  >     <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
  >   
 
  >     *From: *"Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
  >     j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
  >     *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com
  >     af@af.afmug.com>>
  >     *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
  >     *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
  > 
  >     Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
  > 
  >     Josh Luthman
  >     Office: 937-552-2340
  >     Direct: 937-552-2343
  >     1100 Wayne St
  >     Suite 1337
  >     Troy, OH 45373
  > 
  > 
  >     On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
  >     af...@ics-il.net>>
  wrote:
  > 
  >         Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows?
  Radio?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >         -
  >         Mike Hammett
  >         Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
  >         <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
  >         Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
  >         <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
  >         The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
  >         <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
  > 
  > 
  >         <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
  >       
 
  >         *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
  >         mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
  >         *To: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com
  >         mhoward...@gmail.com>>,
  "AnimalFarm Microwave U

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Mathew Howard

woah! you can get cupholders in a Porsche these days?!

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Having gone through Porsche ordering hell, 8K gets you cupholders
> finally,  Sound system?  More like 15...
>
> On 11/22/2019 01:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> > Toyota is super nice when it comes to base models.  I got a 4 cylinder
> > Tacoma (should have gotten the v6, it's way too underpowered) base model
> > and it has touchscreen with bluetooth.  Power windows/locks/etc.
> >
> > Porsche on the other hand requires you have something like $8k in
> > options for that feature.  Another $2k if you want the bluetooth to do
> > audio as well.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett  > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > It was mostly a dig at the lowest priced option a manufacturer makes
> > probably is missing a variety of features one is used to.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >
>  ----
> > *From: *"Josh Luthman"  > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:53:33 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> >
> > Yes Mike, it's a Toyota.  Not Pontiac.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mike Hammett  > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Does a $30k truck come with AC? Power windows? Radio?
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >
>  
> > *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
> > *To: *"Mathew Howard"  > <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>, "AnimalFarm Microwave Users
> > Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 2:49:15 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> >
> > OK... and?  Still a far cry from $40 or $50.
> >
> > On 11/22/19 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> >  > That's $32,780...
> >  >
> >  > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 2:35 PM Matt Hoppes
> >  >  > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> >  > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > That’s the current model.
> >  >
> >  >

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Mathew Howard

I'm pretty sure Tesla has an option you can turn on to get updates sooner,
or let it wait until it feels like updating... I don't think mine got the
last major update until at least a few weeks after it was released.

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 5:27 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> & unfortunately, you cannot decide to wait till version 2 comes out, if
> they decide to release a 1.1test, you get it...  At least that's what my
> buddy was telling (whining) me...
>
> On 11/22/2019 03:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > You have to be aware of the firmware version when talking about a Tesla.
> > The firmware is more important than the model year because they are
> > updating it fairly often.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 11/22/2019 1:02 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> >> They have that ability and do it.  BUT the programming has had some
> >> serious errors for different conditions.   When the X first came out
> >> there were a bunch of people stuck at Tahoe with them.   Now, a bunch
> >> of them came up with tires very much not suited for the conditions and
> >> no amount of slippage control would fix that, but there were
> >> complaints from people who actually had snow tires on.   I also heard
> >> that situation is much improved..   Even with the much lower S.
> >>
> >> On 11/22/2019 11:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> >>> Supposedly, their computer can manage the slippage on a per-wheel
> >>> basis to get any traction that might be available instead of blind
> >>> power. Supposedly.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> Mike Hammett
> >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> >>>
> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> >>>
> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >>>
> --------
> >>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> >>> *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 12:49:37 PM
> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> >>>
> >>> With the torque of electric motors, probably no snow tires in the
> >>> world would be enough, maybe convert to tracks.
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
> >>> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 10:59 AM
> >>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
> >>>
> >>> It's up on their website now.   A winch, my life for a winch. But
> >>> that with 500 mile range for 60K and I could replace the power wagon
> >>> with it...   Specially with and additional 6 inches of clearance and
> >>> nothing to block snow under the body, so it would slide on top
> >>> easier.   It might just make a pretty good snow machine!
> >>>
> >>> On 11/22/19 7:49 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The range(s) were listed as 200-500 depending on battery pack. The
> >>> extra motors add power, but don't make a significant impact on
> >>> mileage (or as much as you might think). You can see this in the
> >>> various models S, X, and Y; more motors doesn't really impact range
> >>> all that much. I think this is because just because you have more
> >>> power, it still takes about the same amount of power to go X miles
> >>> per hour.
> >>>
> >>> The metric for efficiency is MPGe. The EPA has decreed that
> >>> ~~33.5KWh is approximately equal energy-wise to 1 gallon of gas.
> So,
> >>> for example, the latest firmware version of the Model 3 with a
> 60KWh
> >>> battery goes ~~ 250 miles. That nets out to ~~ 140 MPGe
> >>> (250/(60/33.5)).
> >>>
> >>> We don't have enough information for the cybertruck yet to do that
> &

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Ken Hohhof

Ahhh, the old "own the hardware but only lease the software" catch, hence
the "right to repair movement" and the farmers who can't fix their John
Deere tractors themselves.

https://www.wired.com/story/john-deere-farmers-right-to-repair/

https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-elizabeth-warren-farmers/


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 5:27 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

& unfortunately, you cannot decide to wait till version 2 comes out, if they
decide to release a 1.1test, you get it...  At least that's what my buddy
was telling (whining) me...

On 11/22/2019 03:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> You have to be aware of the firmware version when talking about a Tesla. 
> The firmware is more important than the model year because they are 
> updating it fairly often.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 11/22/2019 1:02 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> They have that ability and do it.  BUT the programming has had some 
>> serious errors for different conditions.   When the X first came out 
>> there were a bunch of people stuck at Tahoe with them.   Now, a bunch 
>> of them came up with tires very much not suited for the conditions 
>> and no amount of slippage control would fix that, but there were
>> complaints from people who actually had snow tires on.   I also heard 
>> that situation is much improved..   Even with the much lower S.
>>
>> On 11/22/2019 11:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>> Supposedly, their computer can manage the slippage on a per-wheel 
>>> basis to get any traction that might be available instead of blind 
>>> power. Supposedly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+Intelligen
>>> tComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intellig
>>> ent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company
>>> /midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 12:49:37 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>
>>> With the torque of electric motors, probably no snow tires in the 
>>> world would be enough, maybe convert to tracks.
>>>
>>> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 10:59 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck
>>>
>>> It's up on their website now.   A winch, my life for a winch. But 
>>> that with 500 mile range for 60K and I could replace the power wagon 
>>> with it...   Specially with and additional 6 inches of clearance and 
>>> nothing to block snow under the body, so it would slide on top 
>>> easier.   It might just make a pretty good snow machine!
>>>
>>> On 11/22/19 7:49 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> The range(s) were listed as 200-500 depending on battery pack. The
>>> extra motors add power, but don't make a significant impact on
>>> mileage (or as much as you might think). You can see this in the
>>> various models S, X, and Y; more motors doesn't really impact range
>>> all that much. I think this is because just because you have more
>>> power, it still takes about the same amount of power to go X miles
>>> per hour.
>>>
>>> The metric for efficiency is MPGe. The EPA has decreed that
>>> ~~33.5KWh is approximately equal energy-wise to 1 gallon of gas. So,
>>> for example, the latest firmware version of the Model 3 with a 60KWh
>>> battery goes ~~ 250 miles. That nets out to ~~ 140 MPGe 
>>> (250/(60/33.5)).
>>>
>>> We don't have enough information for the cybertruck yet to do that
>>> calculation (or do we?). ICE trucks (half tons anyway) are doing
>>> good to get 20 MPG these days. The d

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

2019-11-22 Thread Robert Andrews

& unfortunately, you cannot decide to wait till version 2 comes out, if
they decide to release a 1.1test, you get it... At least that's what my
buddy was telling (whining) me...

On 11/22/2019 03:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
You have to be aware of the firmware version when talking about a Tesla.
The firmware is more important than the model year because they are
updating it fairly often.

On 11/22/2019 1:02 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
They have that ability and do it. BUT the programming has had some
serious errors for different conditions. When the X first came out
there were a bunch of people stuck at Tahoe with them. Now, a bunch
of them came up with tires very much not suited for the conditions and
no amount of slippage control would fix that, but there were
complaints from people who actually had snow tires on. I also heard
that situation is much improved.. Even with the much lower S.

On 11/22/2019 11:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Supposedly, their computer can manage the slippage on a per-wheel
basis to get any traction that might be available instead of blind
power. Supposedly.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Ken Hohhof"
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
*Sent: *Friday, November 22, 2019 12:49:37 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

With the torque of electric motors, probably no snow tires in the
world would be enough, maybe convert to tracks.

*From:*AF *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019 10:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck

It's up on their website now. A winch, my life for a winch. But
that with 500 mile range for 60K and I could replace the power wagon
with it... Specially with and additional 6 inches of clearance and
nothing to block snow under the body, so it would slide on top
easier. It might just make a pretty good snow machine!

On 11/22/19 7:49 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

The range(s) were listed as 200-500 depending on battery pack. The
extra motors add power, but don't make a significant impact on
mileage (or as much as you might think). You can see this in the
various models S, X, and Y; more motors doesn't really impact range
all that much. I think this is because just because you have more
power, it still takes about the same amount of power to go X miles
per hour.

The metric for efficiency is MPGe. The EPA has decreed that
~~33.5KWh is approximately equal energy-wise to 1 gallon of gas. So,
for example, the latest firmware version of the Model 3 with a 60KWh
battery goes ~~ 250 miles. That nets out to ~~ 140 MPGe
(250/(60/33.5)).

We don't have enough information for the cybertruck yet to do that
calculation (or do we?). ICE trucks (half tons anyway) are doing
good to get 20 MPG these days. The diesel variety can get into the
high 20s (26-28 zone).

I was surprised to see the towing capacity with a unibody. There
would have to be some serious reinforcement going on to attach a
weight distribution hitch with that kind of weight.

On 11/22/2019 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

To be consistent with my feelings on their semi truck, as long
as the performance, specifications, reliability, utility are as
promised, I care much less about how it appears.

That $40k price point is nice, though I'd want at least the $50k
to have AWD.

I've seen people say stuff like, "OMG, that too much money for a
truck." Clearly they have no idea what trucks cost. I haven't
seen what the electric ATV costs.

I also wonder what else changes between the tiers. Adding more
motors shouldn't add to the range of the vehicle, so what's
happening with the battery, weight, etc. Adding more batteries
shouldn't make it faster, so what's up with the extra motors?

I'm more willing to admit I don't need to pull a house with my
daily driver because I can always get something from the farm. I
just want it to be big enough to handle most things. Hell, even
the 14k towing would be enough for our Bobcat and trailer.

I wonder how trailers work with th

Re: [AFMUG] Cybertruck