Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
Could you try kernel #6 again? I think it is working now with 192k playback. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
indypants;698727 Wrote: Thanks John. I must admit, it had already been my intention to put the Isolator between the hub and the DAC, but probably for the completely wrong reason. I was under the (false?) impression that the Isolator did something to stop the power feed getting through, and that this might stop the hub from working properly (it's powered, yes?). I'm not very technical with this kind of thing, as you might have guessed! Yep that's another good reason for doing it that way round. Just wanted to reasure you it worked... -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
indypants;698728 Wrote: So what are your thoughts on the effects of the Isolator? Placebo or not? Must admit I've not spent a long time listening to the differences. I have spent more time building new kernels and trying to get the usb support to wotk in the first instance. I must get back to listening more... -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
indypants;698736 Wrote: Intersetingly, I notice that the USB buffer on the MDAC is more stable now, being rock solid at 50% with the hub in. On kernal#1 and no hub, is was going up and down a lot. Yep - this is the way it works with other players. The hack in kernel #1 exploits the fact that the Lakewest code will support more data sent less frequently, but this then causes the buffer fill variation you see (or at least the bar graph goes up and down a lot). Dominik seemed happy with the hack though in terms of his code would work with it. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
I've just added a new kernel (Kernel #6). This supports usb and the 192k digital ouput as kernel #5, but the non working 192k analog output is removed. I intend to release this with a simplified installer applet, so am looking for people to test this out to see if it works ok. Please could a couple of people test with normal and usb dacs. [The new applet will automatically install this kernel to make it simpler for people to install hopefully making it several less steps. I want to make sure the kernel is ok first though.] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
indypants;698778 Wrote: Just tried kernel#6 with the MDAC and CDQ and I'm not getting anything from the USB. 192K is working OK from optical and coax though. Reloaded kernel#5 and everything is working again. With the hub? It should be the same - I need to look at it again :( -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
indypants;698597 Wrote: I used this one http://electronicsshop.dk/?id=1038 Same isolator I have and I think you our ordering the Hama hub - I can confirm this combination is working for me. As John says, connect the hub to the player and the isolator between it and the dac. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
gh0st;698666 Wrote: another field report... setup: MDAC (latest beta firmware) SBT with TT3.0 source material 16/44.1 24/96 flac and 320k spotify (thanks Triode, highly superior to the official plugin :) results: Kernel #1: works fine provided the buffer in TT3.0 is set to 5000. I haven't tried every graduation in between, but 4000 was a definite failure - pops every couple of seconds. With 5000 the MDAC's usb buffer display is always ~45-80%. Kernel #3: less successful, I set the buffer up to the SBT default of 2, but this made little or no difference to the buffer depleting and a corresponding pop when it hit bottom and refilled. With the 16/44.1 it would consistently fill to about 20% and then descend steadily to nothing, then jump to 20% again and so on. With 24/96 it filled up higher, maybe 60-70%, and descended more slowly, but would still hit zero and pop. Has anyone seen a software fix for this or is it the usb hub / isolator treatment? cheers ./dom Anything other than kernel #1 will need a hub. Kernel 1 has a workaround specifically for this, but is limited to 44/48k sampling rate and only works with some dacs such as MDAC. If you want to play higher resolution I suggest getting an external hub, otherwise stick to kernel 1. There will be an easier way to install soon which will integrate the different kernels and make the kernel 1 capability an option. Note - its the hub which fixes this, not the isolator. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
gh0st;698672 Wrote: thanks - is this the fella? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-USB-2-0-Hub-bus-powered/dp/B0017X0R20/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1333146208sr=8-1 Looks like it - though I remember the price being slightly different, but I think the comments look like those against the one I bought. [key point is it needs to be a high speed hub with an internal transaction translator] Besides not solving the pop problem, is the isolator recommended for any other reason? It's recommended to isolate the dac from the player electrically which can remove some usb cable borne noise. There's been some debate on pink fish about whether they are needed - but some people have reported improvements. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;697100 Wrote: Aha! I was playing a 192 WAV file which of course streams PCM. I'll change it and send flac for the wav. Thats a strange limitation that SP will not receive 192 PCM. Is that an explicit limitation or just that it can't keep up? It needs a change to lms and squeezeplay for pcm as the server needs to tell the player the samplerate and this is not currently an option in the code. With flac, the player flac library is used to detect samplerate and already supports these rates. I think I can add it to 7.8 with andy's permission.. (even though 192k is considered harmful :)). It will mean you need to run 7.8 builds though. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
Triode;697101 Wrote: I've tested again, 176/192 is broken on the internal dac (wrong speed), but I believe works on the spdif output [which is what I was testing with mostly and was my real target for this]. Please constrain testing to the spdif output at present. Looks like 176/192 doesn't work with the internal ak4220 dac. I will remove this from the next version until I understand this - in the interim please test usb and spdif only at these sample rates. [Note for John S - if you have access to the test gear I'm be interested in the BCLK and MCLK getting to the dac in the 176/192k case... I am changing a divider on BLCK but it doesn't seem to do anything?] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
dsdreamer;696999 Wrote: I've had an AudioEngine D1 plugged into a USB2.0 hub and thence into the Touch, and it has been working very well for 44.1kHz ripped CDs and 24/96kHz FLAC downloads. Today I tried to play a low quality stream from a local radio station and got a Pinky and Perky impression. Nevertheless, the USB Audio info page reported 32kHz audio rate, which I think is correct. I have exactly the same issue with Klaus' TouchToolbox on the same stream. Oddly enough, when I go back to play a CD rip at 16/44.1kHz the DAC is no longer in asynchronous mode, and is stuck at at sample frequency slightly higher than 44.1kHz (i.e. 44,250Hz), with the expected audio clicks. Pressing reset on the SBT recovers the situation. This is 100% repeatable: playing the 32kHz internet radio station breaks asynchronous USB until reset is pressed. 32kHz is not a big deal for me normally, but it would be interesting to know if this is a peculiarity of the DAC I'm using or is also true for other DACs. Does the audioengine claim to support the sample rate in the /proc/sound/ entry? The usb code will only play back the native sample rates of the hardware (which is what TT does when it bypasses the plug layer). In the case of SB internal devices they don't support 32k (or don't look to have been configured for it), but some usb dacs may. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;697007 Wrote: I tried the latest applet and kernel, I could not get 192 on the internal DAC to work. I currently don't have anything that can read 192 S/PDIF so I couldn't try that either. I've tested again, 176/192 is broken on the internal dac (wrong speed), but I believe works on the spdif output [which is what I was testing with mostly and was my real target for this]. Please constrain testing to the spdif output at present. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
CardioFitness;696818 Wrote: I got a Nad M51 2.0 usb which needs to install the 2.0 USB drivers on windows but not on iOS because supposely already has them. So any chance it will work with the touch ? Also so far only up to 96 is working right ? If it works with linux and osx uac 2.0 then there is a good chance it should work with kernels 3 onwards on SB Touch. Windows does not include uac 2 drivers, but as long as the dac works with the native driver for linux then there is a good chance it will work (can't promise though) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;696722 Wrote: Triode, what exactly do you mean by reset the output device? Go into the usb dac menu and set the output device back to default. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
ste1;696725 Wrote: Hi Triode, I have tried this with a Musical Fidelity V-Dac 2. This is an asynch dac however I do not know if it is USB 1 or 2. http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-PSU/v-psu.asp I followed the instructions on page 1 of this thread last night and both applets insalled OK. Problem I have is that the DAC doesn't appear by name to select in the USB Audio Output menu. Instead I get 2 options: Digital Output(44-192) and Analgoue Output(44-192). Those outputs are the internal digital and analog ports (which this kernel also supports at 192k sample rate). You should have seen a separate entry at the end for your dac. Can you ssh into the touch and let me know what the following command returns? cat /proc/asound/cards -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
PietB;696768 Wrote: Just tried, the touch didn't loop-reboot and my rDac is playing now over usb-out, however not constantly but hickups Hum - that's a pity. Do you have a high speed usb hub between the dac and the touch? Does the momentary frequency update when it is playing on the info menu for the dac? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
PietB;696786 Wrote: No high speed usb hub, tried hires 96000 hz now and is playing fine, no hickups Only resetted the touch and rDac before playing. playing another song and switching to 16 bit 44, hickups Switching back to 24/96 agan playing fine, also 24/88 Info menu for the dac shows the correct frequencies So the key issue for async is that the momentary frequency should change based on the feedback from the dac. Sometimes it will be too high then too low, but I would expect it to update about once per second when working correctly. This probably does need an external high speed hub though as the touch has some hardware limitations - can you try to use one and see? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;696794 Wrote: I observe the frequency alternating between 96005 and 96006 Hz or between 192010 and 192011 Hz respectively about every second, sometimes even two or three seconds. Is this as it is supposed to be? Yes it should alter as it's a feedback mechanism - this is what async usb is all about. The dac tells the transport how fast to go and the transport changes its rate as told. The critical thing is that the crystals in dac and player will be at slightly different frequencies. There is a buffer in the dac, so all that is required is that the dac tells the transport to slow down or speed up to keep the buffer half full - this is what is happening with the different rates you see. The fact it is changing means it is working in async mode. It's interesting how different dac manufacturers have implemented these changes differently - my audiolab for instance alters the frequency by 100Hz or more between the go faster and go slower message. Your dac appears do adjust on a more fine grain manner. However the bit that matters is that it is updating. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;696600 Wrote: The internal DAC and S/PDIF is probably going to be more difficult. Their drivers have tables which take the desired sample rate and set processor registers appropriately. Unfortunately these tables only go up to 96. I did a quick look at this a couple years ago and could not figure out the correct register values by looking at the other values, it was not obvious. One would have to get the processor data book and figure out the right values. Not too hard but it takes some time. I was being too obscure. They show good signs of working me with modified drivers, but not with alsa plug layer so they only work one at a time and I'm not sure on the cpu load yet. Will have something to test soon. [I've not really listened in anger to check for dropouts in the output fifo though. However my dac registers 192k sample rate and the same 192k file plays back on the internal dac. So this is a definate possiblity at present] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
I've just added a new kernel and updated the output selection applet. Please try these two together as the kernel includes some changes which require the new applet. Best installation process is to: reset the output device, update the applet and then update the kernel. Then select your chosen output device. The new kernel includes: - possible work around for the rDAC issue (based on my option 2, it ignores the parameter from the dac and uses a smaller parameter - the question is whether the dac likes this..?) - format text in /proc/asound/card/stream0 changed to latest kernel output - option to select Digital (spdif) and Analog (ak4420 internal dac) separately - tentative 176.4k and 192k support for Digital and Analog outputs when used separately (note 1) (note 2) (note 3) (note 1) note this is not tested very well and may not work. I've not tried 176.4 at all as I don't have a test file. 192k looks to work, but I've not listened for a long period to check whether there are any dropouts. (note 2) this does not work in default output mode where both internal outputs are enabled - at present this case is broken as the server does not resample, but the player can't sustain the stream. I need to find a way to put back resampling on the server for this case. (note 3) note by playing through the output separately, support of sampling rates below 44.1 is removed, this may impact some internet radio streams. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
jackocleebrown;696408 Wrote: Using kernel 1 and 2 I get: asyc-dac hack: changing datainterval from 0 to 1 2:1:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x1 iso: int: 2 usec: 12 c_usec: 0 maxp: 585 raw_mask: 000f tt_usecs: 464 enable_periodic iso: int: 128 usec: 1 c_usec: 1 maxp: 3 raw_mask: 1c01 tt_usecs: 12 fsl-ehci fsl-ehci.0: request c732f760 would overflow (2048+1282048) cannot submit syncpipe for urb 2, error -27: internal error disable_periodic Same error just with some other info in there. I believe I know what is going on. I suspect it is because your dac asks for frequency reports every 128 ms, whereas other dacs ask for them more frequently. There is a known limitation in the kernel usb scheduler code where infrequent requests get refused. I have two routes to fix this: 1) adding more patches to the usb scheduler code from more recent linux kernels, 2) ignoring the request from the dac and always using a more frequent interval to poll for frequency. I will look at next weekend and try to do 1) as it seems more general - please look out for an update. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
Mnyb;696022 Wrote: Is not 192k converted to 96k by the server ( with the eminent help of SoX ) . Even with this special kernel ? Answering this specific question. 192k playback is possible if the output device reports it as an avaliable rate. Squeezeplay (the playback app) queries alsa for the max samplrate supported by the output port and reports this to the server. The server then automatically uses sox to resample if the rate is above that reported. UAC 2 devices should be able to do 192k. The internal spdif and dac also appear capable of it if the alsa plug layer is bypassed (i.e. one at a time). -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
jackocleebrown;696302 Wrote: I tried to set asound.conf to use the DAC but this results in the same rebooting loop. If I hotplug the DAC with my modified asound.conf then try and play a track then I get no playback and dmesg includes the line: ALSA sound/usb/clock.c:227: 2:1:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x1 which may be relevant. Don't worry about that line - I've commented it out in later kernels as it appears most dacs don't allow this to be displayed. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that one solution to this type of issue may be editing the file /etc/squeezeplay/userpath/settings/SqueezeboxFab4.lua to set a different bit depth. I've tried this and it does not help, however whatever changes I make to that file seem to be overwritten on/etc/squeezeplay/userpath/settings/SqueezeboxFab4.lua a reboot. The plugin is only updating this file. Did you sync before reboot when you updated this? (otherwise it was possibly not valid json?) Try setting the alsaPlaybackDevice=hw:CARD=DAC and alsaSampleSize=24 for your dac. The plugin should do this automatically - but lets find our what your dac needs first. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
Likely that it needs a more specific card name - can you try aplay -l from the command line and see what it lists as the options for devices? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
jackocleebrown;696330 Wrote: This is what I get (boot with usb plugged in but applet configured for normal operation): # aplay -l List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices card 0: TXRX [MXC SPDIF TX/RX], device 0: MXC_SPDIF [MXC_SPDIF] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 1: DAC [ARCAM DAC], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 2: fab4 [fab4], device 0: fab4-ak4420 [] Subdevices: 0/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 3: fab4_1 [fab4], device 0: fab4-wm8974 [] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 Which kernel are you using - try with kernel 4 + the manual modifications. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
jackocleebrown;696339 Wrote: is this down to the version of alsa? or are you bypassing alsa completely? I was trying to get it to work by fiddling with the aplay command line options. Its using the alsa kernel driver so it would be good if you can make it play via aplay. I don't see what it wrong there - can you narrow down which hardware params don't work? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
jackocleebrown;696359 Wrote: I've not found a combination of parameters to get playback with aplay working from the touch. There is an entry for every attempt in DMESG: checking quirk table for id: 0c560002 ALSA sound/usb/clock.c:227: 2:1:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x1 ALSA sound/usb/urb.c:824: cannot submit syncpipe for urb 2, error -27: internal error Do you get the same with kernel 1 or 2? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
jackocleebrown;696409 Wrote: lsusb -v on my laptop returns: Thanks - will look at this and get back to you. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
Based on Mark's feedback I've updated the Usb Audio Output applet to version 0.6. This should now support detection and selection of dacs wanting 32bit samples. This is working for Mark with kernel #4 to support uac 2 dacs. Anyone else with a uac 2 dac may wish to try this combination and post here. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
RadBadMark;696010 Wrote: Asynchronous class 2 audio appears to be working well, although using your applet to change the soundcard doesn't work for me for some reason - when I select the USB DAC in the menu and the SBT reboots, it enters a continuous boot loop until I unplug the DAC, at which point it then boots normally and I can change it back to the default soundcard. To get round this I've selected the USB DAC by modifying asound.conf instead - I'm assuming this amounts to the same thing although I obviously don't have the the info from the app available. Can I get hold of this data elsewhere in the system? Thats very good progress - thanks for testing. By modifying the asound.conf layer you are going through a layer of alsa which I had hoped to bypass by targetting the device directly. I think the problem is that the sound card is expecting format 0xa which is not supported by the main squeezeplay code at present (only 16 and 24 bit mode are). I will need to look at adding this to the jive_alsa code which is something I had hoped to avoid. I'm using test kernel 4 and it's been running in the background now for a couple of hours with no noticeable clicks, pops or dropouts. I'm not connected via a hub either, the DAC is bus powered and plugged straight into the back of the touch. Seems quite happy playing 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4 192kHz off the server too, although I don't know what the SBT is doing internally. I should be able to verify output sample rates tomorrow as my other DAC has sample rate indicators :) As its a high speed device, I believe it should work directly connected to touch (its only the 2-1.1 portion of the touch silicon which appears to have a limitation). Can you see the momentary frequency changing - this would indicate async is working correctly. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
Mark - could you post the dmesg for when the audio stream is started? (I'm not sure I enabled debug on that kernel, but would be useful to see what it records). Do you know if the dac only supports S32_LE format over uac 2? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
RadBadMark;696085 Wrote: I did look at dmesg but couldn't spot anything relevent so I didn't post it, I'll check again later though. I don't know about sample formats off the top of my head but I'll see what I can find out. Ok - no worries. Can you pm me an email address. I will update the binary to support S32_LE and let you have it to validate. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
RadBadMark;695955 Wrote: Triode - thanks for the effort from you and John with this! I have a couple of DACs that are class 2 capable - I'll try and give it a test either tonight or over the weekend. Is there anything specific that I can feedback that would be particularly useful? Are you expecting them to run at high speed or fall back to full speed? Do they work - and what the dmesg shows (when you ssh into touch and type dmesg). Most interesting if they don't work so we can try to get them to the point when they may. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;695327 Wrote: Is someone here who tried the kernels provided by Triode with Eximus DP1, or with any other USB audio class 2 dac? I don't think anyone has posted about tests using an audio class 2 dac yet - I'm awaiting with interest. [I was also holding off doing any more kernels until we got some feedback on this] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;695364 Wrote: Since USB audio class 2 is specified as downward compatible to class 1 it should work, don't you think? Well I think it would be useful to have some test cases. I don't think we have tried anything running as a high speed (480M) device yet. If the dac has a 1.1 full speed port then that will work, but I suspect this is not the case. In summary - I'm hopeful we can make it work, but at present with no test cases can't be sure. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;695369 Wrote: But again, the USB 2.0 high speed port is supposed to be downwards compatible to USB 1.1, so if the dac has a high speed USB port it should be able to operate the touch. However, some positive test cases to confirm this would be appreciated. Its all under software control so will only be the case if the software supports this and works as intended... If the dac has a configuration to force it into 1.1 mode I would be reasonably confident it will work. If not and it negotiates to a lower rate then I am less confident. I think you would be the first person trialing it with a high speed device. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
dsdreamer;695065 Wrote: I hope he will keep his unofficial applets available for the future. They are starting to become indispensable! It looks like Logitech is unable to accept the patches as part of the mainstream kernel at present as they are concerned about the amount of testing required. I will therefore be looking at making it an easier 3rd party addition to install - I think we can make the applet automatically download and install the kernel after it is installed and trap the case of a missing dac better. I also want to merge the features of kernels #1 and 3 so that we can have one install with an option to support the no hub case at 44/48k for dacs which work with it. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
gaunaik;695027 Wrote: M-DAC and Kernal *3 seems to work with 96/24 without the use of a hub. This has already been reported by another tester. Good news indeed or is is the MDAC being fooled into thinking this is the case? Music plays flawlessly. Thanks for your efforts Triode and John S. Your instructions on the required updates worked first time, I think its a very painless process. Worth pointing to this thread on Pinkfishmedia. I know many members on there are using touch with the M-DAC. Regards, G.N. Without a hub it will play, but I am not sure if it will be working in async mode. If you go to the settings, advanced, usb audio menu and then look at the info for the dac does the frequency change? If not then its working on a fixed frequency and you will get a pop as the buffer fills or empties. MDAC has a useful buffer level display which can help show when this will happen. It will depend on the frequency difference between the crystal in the touch and the mdac how often these pops occur - you may be lucky and it does not happen very often. Suggest buying a £6 hub if you see this... -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
warpian;693938 Wrote: I did several comparisons with the M2Tech Evo, Audiophilleo and Fostex HP-P1 and the SPDIF output from these devices clearly outperform the one from the SBT (with or without Soundcheck). Tests where performed with a Moon 650 (with the new async USB Interface) and an AMR DP 777. Did you do any of these tests using the SBT USB output (as discussed on this thread). If so can you confirm so we can record which dacs are working. Very interested if any of these dacs are usb audio class 2. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
warpian;693954 Wrote: I will install your kernel 3 sometime next week and hook the Audiophilleo up to the SBT and let you know :-) Suggest trying with kernel #4 as it has slightly more debug messages. Can you ssh into touch and see what dmesg shows when you try to start playback (this is where any errors will be shown) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
realmadrid;693809 Wrote: Hi Triode: Look at: http://www.qnktc.com/ab_11/ Works very well on Vortexbox Regards Juan So if you have one - could you try it on Touch with my kernel and let me know how you get on? I'm not looking to buy one, I was hoping people here would have usb audio class 2 dacs they could try with touch and help us make it work. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;692872 Wrote: If you never want to go above 48 you should be able to use kernel #1 without a hub. There might be some DACs where this does not work. The hub lets you go up to 96. Most DACs seem to be able to do this without one of the special kernels. John S. To add to this - with the hub the dac will work as its designer intended. The approach in kernel #1 is to ignore the request from the dac for data to arrive every 1ms and it make touch send every 2ms, so that the return async packets can be scheduled in the slots in between. This only works with some dacs, but if it works then I don't see any reason for needing a hub as long as you only want to go to 48k. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;692799 Wrote: I tried the new USB audio applet 0.4, with the default kernel, it works great with both the HRT streamerII (async class 1.0) and the 2706 (adaptive, 16 bit class 1) based DAC. The 2706 DAC works at all sample rates (44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96) which is a bit unusual since its only supporting up to 48. So either its using plug, or the server is resampling. I checked the info while it was playing different sample rates, and its just playing 44.1 or 48. I thought your jive_alsa was doing hw not plug so I'm not sure what is going on here. Its using the card direct as hw and so should only support the options provided by the player - interested in what is going on here. I tried kernel 3 and got exactly the same results. In addition I also tried the EMU-0404, which works in 44.1 but has bizarre sound in higher rates. So it looks like the EMU-0404 specific code did not make it into this kernel. I do not have any class 2.0 DACs to try at this point. I will look at the source later this evening, but I didn't consiously leave this out. I will rebuild kernel #3 with some debuging enabled so we can get some dmesg output for these cases to help debug. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;692799 Wrote: I tried kernel 3 and got exactly the same results. In addition I also tried the EMU-0404, which works in 44.1 but has bizarre sound in higher rates. So it looks like the EMU-0404 specific code did not make it into this kernel. I do not have any class 2.0 DACs to try at this point. John - the EMU-0404 code is definately there. Could you try with kernel #4, this is the same code but with a couple of extra printks added in the relavent quirk section and with the CONFIG_SND_VERBOSE_PRINTK kernel option. What's the dmesg say? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
Does anyone here have a USB Audio Class 2 dac?? If so I would be interested in what happens with my kernel #3 in the usb dac experiement thread. I can't test as I don't have the appropriate dac, but I think I've included the more recent linux changes which _may_ allow class 2 dacs to do something. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;690417 Wrote: I've tried USB audio 0.3 (I hope that's the right one) and it still doesn't work with my 2706 based DAC. It just continuously reboots. John - I found a bug in the 0.3 version of USB Audio Output - could you try updating to 0.4 and trying again with your 16 bit dac? (Ideally also try the new #3 kernel with the dac too so I know it supports these dacs) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
I've added another test kernel and would like to see feedback from people using a range of dacs with kernel #3. This is differnet from previous kernels which aimed to include minimal patches to the original linux kernel used in touch. Kernel #3 includes the majority of patches added to the usbaudio driver to bring it up to date with the linux kernel tree as of April 2011. (This changes are resticted to sound/usb) This means the driver includes new code to parse the requirements of the dac and also _possibly_ provides support of USB Audio Class 2. [I have no idea as I can't test, but I've included what looked to be the relavent patches] As with kernel #2, if you have an async usb 1 device then you will need an external hub. Very interested in test results. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;692575 Wrote: Is it possible to install the new kernel over kernel #2? Yes - just go to the Kernel Updater menu and select the new one. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
bluegaspode;692310 Wrote: John preferred A in all cases with some statistical significance even though he never knew when A was played or not. Yes this is how I interpret them, which leads me to what to review the code as the difference between A and D is not expected. Also its not a consitent view across other cases. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
NoRoDa;692368 Wrote: To me the different settings seem a bit mysterious, like you just made something that is using CPU without doing anything? yes My head was focused on hearing improvements (or maybe changes), not knowing that the best I could hope for is no improvement. This is not necessarily so - my original hypotheris is that variations on the power rail couple into the audio output in some way. In this case varying cpu load and specifically going in and out of low power mode are likely to have more impact than constantly using 100% cpu. Hence a 100% process which avoids getting to the low power state could be expected to have an impact which may be positive... (or maybe not) However I did reason it could have an impact one way or another. Clearly in a perfect world it would have no impact. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
Interesting results so far - in that there's no clear benefit/degrade of specific changes. I though I'd share what the modification is in test #2 to encourage more people to try if they are interested... Test #2 contains 4 test case these are: A: runs a process which does nothing (sleeps for a second and then restarts) B: runs a process which uses as much cpu as possible, but runs as a IDLE priority process, i.e. uses all cpu when no other processes are running C: as B but also reads and writes from random locations in memory (memory block larger than the cache to create constant activity on the memory bus) D: does nothing The basis of this is to examine the hypothersis that cpu load and memory access have an impact on sound quality. Its possible to argue that the load on the cpu and or the frequency and duration of tasks running on the cpu could have an impact on sound. Also that turning priorties and buffer lengths influence the durations different processes spend running and the frequency they do. I also note that the linux kernel puts the cpu into a lower power mode whenever in the kernel's idle process so spending more time in idle will mean lower power load and also changing the time/frequency of the kernel doing real work vs stitting in the idle process is likely to change the load the cpu places on the cpu power rails. Now my test case was to see whether cases B and C have noticable and repeatable impact on audio quality in comparison to the two control cases of A and D. I would say from the existing data they do not. The inference from this would be that cpu load does not have a significant bearing on the audio quality, but I wonder whether now you know the test cases whether people are able to hear any difference -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
garym;692286 Wrote: To be clear will people now know when doing the tests which case they are in (A,B,C,D)? Or is this part still blind to the tester? I hope so. No the individual test cases are still blind (randomly chosen). The result should now make sense to people. I want to drum up some interest in taking the test! I should not have used the letters A B in two places... When Test Case A and Test Case B are presented they are randomly chosen from the four options [which are labled A, B, C, D but they do not correspond] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;691957 Wrote: It seems to be consistent: After the LMS not being available due to the nightly stand-by phase of the NAS the Touch requires a reboot for playing files after the LMS is up and running again. Its not that the Touch is not responding at all, for instance it is possible to log in via SSH, but it just won't play any music files. With the Touch being in this state, the 8200CDQ does not show any connection via USB. Only after the reboot the bit depth and sample rate of the music file to be played are displayed by the DAC. Michael Did you turn the dac off overnight too? It definately won't support this... -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
tufty;692056 Wrote: I was wondering about this: is it currently necessary to reset the Touch if the DAC is turned off and then on later? Has seemed that way to me. Is this something that can be fixed? Yes this is the case. It can only be fixed with changes to the core logitech code, which if I do and distribute it means that you loose features from the firmware which are not open source. At present squeezeplay (the player application run on touch) only opens the audio device at startup and assumes that it only starts up at reboot of the box. It may be possible to reboot just the app, but a better approach would be to be able to open the audio device when a new dac is detected. This is not possible at present. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
NoRoDa;691975 Wrote: I tried this last night. But, maybe I was tired, aren't there three tests? There are two sets of tests: Audio Tests #1 Audio Tests #2 Tests #1 has 3 cases in it and is to familarise you with the test process - it is unlikely that you will detect any difference between them. Tests #2 has 4 cases and I was hoping that you may be able to hear some differences between specific ones of them. With the results thus far I conclude you can't which is interesting in itself given what the tests do - will post this soon... Tried it without the TT3.0 installed, but it's also possible to do it with the toolbox installed? Should be able to do the tests with it installed or not, though clearly anything turning off the screen will impact the ability to run the tests... -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;692066 Wrote: Yes, the dac is off for the night. One other observation: I tried the plugin with the default kernel 7.7.1 from Logitech, neither kernel #1 nor kernel #2 installed, and it seems to work perfectly with my dac even with 24/96 material. Is this as it is supposed to be? Very likely - kernel #2 is very similar to the default kernel, the only signficant difference is that some dacs will need kernel #2 as they ask for more bandwidth on the usb bus than the default kernel offers. (In the case of the MDAC for instance it requires this) The main thing with kernel #2 and the default kernel is the need for an external hub to may async work as the silicon inside touch appears to have a limitation which the hub fixes. [I would like to get the 2 changes in kernel #2 into the standard firmware, but am awaiting feedback from logitech] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
toby10;691753 Wrote: Pardon my ignorance in ABX listening but isn't posting results going to taint the overall test results? Example: If someone reads this thread, sees that most hear no difference on tests 1 2, won't there now be an expectant bias to also not hear a difference on those same tests? I'm no scientist nor audiophile, so maybe (quite possibly) I'm missing something in understanding such testing methods. :) Thanks I think it can re-enforce the expectation bias that the test cases show no difference or do show differences. However the idea behind the test is that you don't know which test case you are voting on, so it should not influence the specific results within a test other than to amplify/reduce your expectation to record differences... I should come clean on one thing (which I believe I stated before): Test #1 has no significant differences and is the control Test #2 does do something which I reasoned would potentially have an impact on the sound in a similar way to buffer tuning/prioritisation of tasks I wrote the test app as I thought I could tell the difference with my mod, but then with the test app I was not so sure... Lets see if any more results for test 2 show any significant results. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
lovejoy;691543 Wrote: Now to work out whether there is any audible difference between kernel #1 and kernel #2! I doubt it - kernel #1 is sending bigger packets every 2ms, kernel #1 smaller packets every 1ms. Other than that they are the same. The feedback packets return at the same time. Maybe a test of kernel #1 without hub vs kernel #2 with hub, but if the hub works then this is the case where the dac is working as intended. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
MWelschenbach;691626 Wrote: By testing systematically I found that the minimal buffer size for playing 24/96 material is 7000, with less than 7000 there is no sound at all. Did anyone observe that with the kernel #2 and TT 3.0 the Touch needs to go through a power off/ power on cycle behause it won't stir after a couple of hours in standby mode? I've not experienced this - was the touch still connected to the server in this case? (Standby mode really only means a different display screen, so it would normally look the same from the server perspective) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
warpian;691389 Wrote: I have ordered an Audiophilleo #1 and will hook it up to the SBT with your Kernel #2. The Audiophilleo comes with a small oled screen that provides quite some diagnostic info. Will report back here when it arrives (sometime next week). That looks to be a usb 2 dac - i.e. high speed. I don't think the current kernels will support that. If it can be forced to operate as a usb 1 dac then I suspect it will work. Otherwise it will probably need some more kernel updates. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
warpian;691460 Wrote: I guess that involves updating the USB driver on the Touch. Some time ago I had read that this upgrade is not easy to accomplish? I am looking at this - would be interested in having someone who could test a usb2 device, but wanted to make you aware that the kernels available at present are unlikely to work. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
Mnyb;691025 Wrote: Is the Touch still bitperfect in all the test modes ? no level manipiulation as I have some DTS tracks in my playlist and anything but 100% volume would make a loud hissing noise ? Yes and with the TT mods - all these mods do is change the other things going on within touch to some extend - you will still get the same bits out of the output. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
Soundman;691066 Wrote: I ran the tests several times but could not hear any difference at all. This is totally expected for test #1 and an interesting result for #2. (I will post what #2 does when we have a few more test results. However I'm interested in results like this from people who can detect the difference with buffer and priority tuning as its trying to validate/dispel a theory related to this.) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
tufty;691078 Wrote: I had TT3.0 installed with Logitech priorities and buffersize of 2... I did not take it off first, and it doesn't appear to be interfering. Is it actually doing anything when playing out on USB? Yes the TT priorisation will intefer as it overrides a priority change the USB applet makes to ensure the Usb irq process is real time priority (it is not by default or in the TT mods as its not expected to be used for audio). Buffer tuning should not matter in terms of dropouts as long as the priority is set. Though YMMV in terms of whether you detect audio difference - in which case try my bind test applet too... 1) On regular CD FLAC rips, they read as 44.1k and 16-bit on CDQ 2) ...unless I am using ReplayGain adjustment, in which case it will display as 22-bit or 23-bit depending on how aggressively it is being volume-adjusted. 3) 48k 24-bit material I have always says 24-bit regardless of ReplayGain setting. This is down to the audiolab code (well lakewests's usb code - suggest you ask in more detail on pinkfish). My understanding is that it will indicate the bit depth based on whether it sees data in the bits - so although 24 bit audio is send from Touch if its from a CD and has no processing then you will see it as 16 bit. If you have RG enabled then squeezeplay is doing some processing and so there may be more bits. If you use a lossy codec you probably also see more bits as the codec in Touch is outputting 24 bits. And as far as jitter - the theory with async usb is that the clock is generated in the dac. As JohnW would say first order impact of jitter is removed, but there's still scope for 2nd order things to mean noise/RF couples from the SBT to the dac. You could try a usb issolator to reduce this. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
TheOctavist;690553 Wrote: 0 0 0 No supprise for that... 0, -1, 1, 0 Interesting - if you repeat the test do you reenforce the score? (i.e. if you do it a second time or select the option to run more tests do the same ones come out as preferred?) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;690417 Wrote: I've tried USB audio 0.3 (I hope that's the right one) and it still doesn't work with my 2706 based DAC. It just continuously reboots. My guess is that both jive_alsa process die and the watchdog kicks in. Because of the way the USB DAC gets setup it wind up as card 2 which causes the effects jive_alsa to die and the music one still has problems. I need to try this with my udev setup which guarantees that all internal interfaces show up with their usual card numbers no matter whether there is a USB DAC or not. That should at least prevent it from crashing the processor. (or using TT3.0 to turn off the watchdog). John S. Hum - can you check what got written to the settings file to see if it looks right? I would expect it to work by setting the device name directly as it should remove the card number problem, but it needs jive_alsa to open the device with settings which work - else you get the problem you have seen. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
Mnyb;690419 Wrote: Play music of you own choice, if I understand triode here he have changed something in the sound system settings in the Touch what it is you are not suposed to know just try with whatever music you please :) Exactly - you should play whatever music you like and see if you can hear any difference. You can leave and return to the comparison menu if you need to change tracks. The test will only progress or stop when you record results or reboot SBT. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
I'd like to encourage more people to try the USB tests on the link above. It looks like my modifications + an external high speed hub enable usb 1.1 async dacs to work without any drops. Would like to get more postive results of this. I consider the modifications stable enough for more people to try now. Note - you are probably likely to need an external high speed hub which will cost 10 GBP. (See explination on experiment thread) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Blind Testing app - testers wanted
I'm interested in a few testers to see if they can tell any audible difference between a few cases using a blind testing applet I've put together for Touch called Audio Blind Tester. The idea is that it allows multiple people to evaluate a set of configurations and rate which sounds preferable without knowing which configuration they are listening to at the specific time. This is intended to help validate that specific configurations really do sound better... The applet only supports changes which can be made on the fly without restarting Touch, but I hope this is useful enough to try out some mods. To try following the following steps: - add the url: http://triodeapplets.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/audiotestrepo.xml to your additional repositories section on the LMS plugin setting page - from the Touch menu: Settings, Advanced, Applet Installer; unselect recommended only and install Audio Blind Tester When the Touch reboots, there should be a new option on the Extras menu: Audio Blind Tester, this contains a list of test sets which you can run (two by default) when you enter a test set you will navigate through a series of test which compare two setting (Test case A and Test case B). These represent randomly selected pairs of configurations and you can select either one as many times as necessary from the menu to make a decision of which sounds preferable. Once you have, select the Record Preference menu and then select whether A B (A sounds better than B), A B (A sounds worse than B) or A = B (sound the same). Once you have registered your preference the menu will move onto the next pair of test cases. Rate each pair and you will get to a Results menu which records the scores of each of the underlying test. Each case gets a +1 score if you preferred it, a -1 score if you did not prefer it and 0 if you did not hear any difference. The purpose of the applet is to see if the same person always rates the same test cases as preferable and if other users rate the cases in the same way. I've included two test sets with the applet: - Audio Tests #1 - demo test set which shows how the applet works - Audio Tests #2 - test set including some changes which may impact audio I'd be interested in people's scores for each of these cases and also whether they can regularly rate the different options within a test set in the same order. [If this is so then it justifies that configuration as a better configuration]. I'll post later on whether there is actually any difference, so will hold off explaining this now... Expert users: The test applet can be extended by adding additional xml files into the /usr/share/jive/applets/AudioBlindTester folder containing configurations which can be started and stopped via linux commands. See tests1.xml as an example, but don't post here what's in it as this will spoil people's enjoyment of the test :) Please post if you think this is useful and specifically if you can regularly rate either of the test sets in a specific order. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93583 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Library in triode plugin?
spollock;689998 Wrote: Using the triode Spotify plugin, is there a way to make use of Library Artists and Albums? They are all empty. Thanks, Steve The library feature only shows what you store to the library from the context menus (its not the same library which spotify use which is all playlist and starred tracks). I should probably have chosen a different name for it, but I don't really use the spotify PC application and so didn't realise this until top late. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93551 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] radio 3 aac streams
diddy;689938 Wrote: many thanks for your help.i also posted on the FoR3 forum and someone there gave me a different url to try which has sorted the problem.i'm sure they wouldn't object to me posting details here.if anyone is interested the instructions url info are: go to your mysqueezebox.com page - click on favorites - under add favorite, paste in this address: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls Name it what you like, click on add . After youve done this, youll need your SBT to be connected to the mysqueezebox.com server. Then go to favorites, either on the Touch home page, or using the remote control function on the mysqueezebox.com page - and it should do the trick (it does for me). No flash, so you wont get the live text, but you should get a quick connection to the stream (at 320kbps aac), and get it without blips, skips, glitches, and remote host resetting the connection. it's working perfectly for me. If you use the Radio 3 menu in the BBC Radio applet or BBCiPlayer plugin it should use this url anyway if you have aac streams selected. This should give you 320k with live text. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93514 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;67 Wrote: It works with the samplebit set to 16. This can be found in the stream0 (which I presume you are already looking at) in the format: 0x2 = S16_LE 0x6 = S24_LE (format used by Touch internal drivers, 4 bytes with 24 bits in the bottom 3 bytes) 0x20 = S24_3LE (most 24 bit USB DACs, 3 bytes) BTW the streamer II works fine with the normal kernel, just install the USB Audio applet. John S. I've updated the Usb Audio Output applet to hopefully parse these values and set the right bitdepth for 16 bit dacs. Please try and report back. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Triode Spotify rebuffering Touch
Spotify uses peer to peer for their desktop apps and streaming from their central site for hardware players via libspotify (which always require a premium subscription). Sometimes the server at the spotify end if congested if so this is often resolved by the plugin moving server, but is clearly at the mercy of the congestion at the spotify end. I don't see any sign of spotify stopping support for hardware players as it always generates revenue for them. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93478 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;688921 Wrote: The results are quite a bit better than without TT3.0, it was a pretty shocking difference to me. Interestingly with the internal DAC the daemon killer made a big difference, but with the Streamer II on the hub it hardly made any difference at all. That's interesting - do you have a usb issolator to hand to test if that makes any difference? Trying to guess what the interaction is with the dac if the clock really is entirely local to the dac... I will add something to the USB output applet for 16 bit. Also kernel #2 only contains a couple of changes over the default kernel. Its likely with dacs that don't also use HID that the default kernel will work in place of kernel #2, they will get a divide by 0 backtrace in dmesg but I suspect they will work. Other dacs need one of the other changes I've make for kernel #2 -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
FredNowak;688699 Wrote: I installed Kernal #2 and thought I would see what would happen without a hub. It is so good I have not bothered to hook up a hub. I have not heard any clicks or pops and will post again if they start. Many thanks, Triode. I must also thank John Swenson for getting us to this point. Fred Hi Fred - is this an async or adaptive dac - the hub is only needed for async, but pleased it is working. Can you give us the details of the working dac? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
JohnSwenson;688733 Wrote: Do NOT attempt any of this by hot plugging, plugging in the DAC or hub with the Touch powered up. It won't physically hurt anything, but it won't work properly if hot plugged. Yes for hot plugging to work the jive application would need to support restarting with a new output interface. As it is at boot time it claims the output device and so we need to have the usb dac available at that time. Hence I think anything which doesn't mess with the jive app needs to assume the dac is there when you start up touch. [so I've ruled out hotpluging as something to target for the moment] The playback solution uses the updated jive_alsa backend which supports sending data direct to the dac, bypassing the plug layer. I tried kernel #2 out with an old adaptive (2706 based) DAC and it did not work at all, the Touch just continually rebooted (whether plugged into the hub or direct). I haven't had time to do any debugging on this. I haven't had time to try this DAC out with kernel #1. I supsect this is more of a problem with the device name and bit depth - try editting /etc/squeezeplay/userpath/settings/SqueezeboxFab4.lua direct to change the sample size and output device name then reboot? The USB Audio Applet is responsble for setting this - if you can find the right things to parse out of /proc/asound/ to get the settings then I will uptdate. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
FredNowak;688786 Wrote: It looks like the title is not part of the quoted text so you could not see the dac is a Music Streamer II when you wrote this note. The dac is async and only has a usb input. The firmware is 1.7. Perhaps the Squeezebox Touch firmware is important. I got on the nightly channel for the server software to try to solve a scanning problem so I have the latest beta server software. It updated the Touch firmware to 7.7.2-r9597. Here is what USB Audio Output says: Playback Status: Running Interface: 1 Allset = 1 URBs = 2(84) Packet Size = 600 Momentary freq = 44100 (0x2c.199a) Interface 1 Allset 1 Format: 0x20 Channels: 2 Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC) Rates: 96000,88200,48000,44100,32000 Interface 1 Allset: 2 Format: 0x2 Channels: 2 Endprint: 1 OUT (ASYNC) Rates: 96000,88200,48000,44100,32000 The above is for MOG, CD's ripped to WAV files and stored MP3 files. The Momentary freq changes to 96000 Hz (0x60.) for the 96k file that comes with the Music Streamer II. I still do not have any pops or clicks with any file format I have tried. Fred So I suspect you are lucky there then - with the momentary frequency set at the sample frequency and not changing it looks like it is working without receiving any feedback messages. However this is probably only ok as your dac's clock is close to the same frequency as the internal clock SBT is using to calculate how much data to send. I suspect you do get clicks/pops but they are so far apart you don't notice... If you had a hub in the way then I would expect the momentary frequency to update. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
As an update to this - I've confirmed that that a cheap bus powered hub works - here's the one I've just purchased for this case (less than 10 GBP): http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41dF6v%2BNiEL.jpg I think this makes the external hub option a very viable way of using a 1.1 usb dac. Interested in others trying. Note the hub must be a high speed USB 2.0 hub. (So the very cheapest ones around which are 1.1 are no good, but there are lots of cheap high speed usb 2.0 ones around) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
Hi - I've been doing some more tests on this and have another kernel for people to try (Test Kernel #2) Please also update to USB Audio Output 0.2 as this includes something to improve 96k playback. I should point out what the different kernels do and what is leading me to look at this. From tests with my dac it appears that there is some form of limitation with the USB hardware in Touch related to the Transaction Translator. This is part of the usb implementation which supports usb 1.0/1.1 devices connected to a usb 2.0 host. The specific limitation is that it does not appear to support output and input iso packets (sitd) in the same 1ms timeslot on the usb bus. The two kernels work round this in different ways and so one may be appropriate to you: Kernel #1 - supports up to 44/48k sampling rates by restricting output packets to every other 1ms frame, thus allowing async input packets on the interviening frames. This relies on the async implementation in the dac supporting data arriving every other frame it asked for. It works with my Audiolab dac (with usb firmware by Lakewest audio) and I've verified with the author of that firmware that it should work. However it is breaking the requested parameters and so does not looks to work with several other dacs. This is probably the reason for the other test cases above failing. Kernel #2 - supports up to 96k sampling rate by not changing the usb protocol. (Its a very minor modification of the default kernel to avoid the not enough bandwidth message seen with some usb devices) However it is intended to be used with an external usb high speed hub. In this configuration, the usb 1.0 to 2.0 translation is done by the external hub rather than the silicon within Touch and this seems to bypass the problem hardware. It works for me with the hub in my monitor - it is worth people testing with any high speed hub. Note there can be problem with rebooting the Touch, hub and dac in the right order so the Touch sees the dac, but once working seems to work ok at all sampling rates upto 96k for me. Thanks to Dominik of Lakewest for suggesting the hub approach. Please test and post here if these work better for you -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
paul.raulerson;687238 Wrote: Installed and tried on a MF VLink, A Wavelength CoSecant, and a Peachtree DAC*IT. No synch to the VLink or CoSecant. The Peachtree played the music cleanly, but the music dragged if that makes any sense. By the way, install was flawless and the uninstall was also flawless. Good work, please don't get discouraged! :) -Paul Hi Paul - can you confirm whether you saw the words USB Test Kernel on the startup screen? I want to make sure that you actually installed the test kernel as the other case looks like it was not running. I've added to the instructions to hopefully make this clearer, but it would be good to understand what you saw in more detail.. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
As reported by John S I've been looking at support for async usb dacs connected to the Usb port of Touch. I believe I've made some progress and have some changes to the touch firmware which I believe are worth sharing. At present this is really a proof of concept and I am looking for testers who have an async usb dac (usb 1.1 devices for the moment) and are willing to try some tests. I've been testing these modifications with a usb 1 dac (Audiolab MDAC) - it will play at 44.1 and 48k sampling rates with my modified kernel. (The dac is capable of 96k, but to make it work with Touch at present I've modified the kernel to only support these lower rates) WARNING: ALTHOUGH I INTEND THESE CHANGES TO BE EASY TO INSTALL FOR A NORMAL USER, THERE IS THE CHANCE OF CAUSING DIFFICULTLY TO BOOT THE TOUCH. I SUGGEST INITIAL TESTERS ARE THEREFORE PEOPLE WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH SSH AND THE TOUCH INTERNALS (AND WOULD BE WILLING TO USE A TFTP SERVER IF ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY). I WILL LIFT THIS WARNING ONCE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE HAVE VERIFIED MY UPDATE PROCESS.. The process for installing the updates is slightly involved, but should all be able to be done from the normal user interface. Instructions below: 1) Update to latest released Touch firmware 2) Perform factory reset to ensure any previous usb mods are removed 3) Add the following new repository url to the LMS Web settings page: Settings, Plugins (additonal repositories at bottom of page), press apply http://triodeapplets.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/usbtestrepo.xml 4) Go to Settings, Advanced, Applet Installer on the player, unselect Recommended Applets Only and two new applets should appear in the list: Kernel Updater and USB Audio Ouput - install them one at a time (touch will reboot each time you install one) 5) Go to Settings, Advanced, Kernel Updater and install the new kernel USB Test Kernel #1 (touch will reboot) 6) Ensure USB Dac is pluged in and turned on 7) Go to Setttings, Advanced, USB Audio Output and see if your USB Dac appears in the menu - if so select it (touch will reboot) 8) Touch should now be using the selected USB device for its audio output - to see the status return to the Settings, Advanced, USB Audio Output menu and select the device - this should show the current status of any playing stream Important - before you update to the standard firmware again, you must reselect the Default output on the USB Audio Output menu otherwise the touch will continually reboot. [If you get to this point, press and hold the reset button to perform a factory reset and it should boot correctly] Please report your findings here - interested in which dacs and what works/doesn't. I'll start by saying that my Audiolab MDAC appears to work in async mode with 44.1/48k sampling rates. My intention is to try other changes to the kernel which will result in additional alternative kernels to help test what changes are needed for different dacs. If/when I do this, I will post here and make them available via the Kernel Updater applet. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
JohnSwenson;674869 Wrote: I have a little bit of news, Triode from these forums is now looking into the issues as well, he's looking into the inner workings of the low level USB driver which is where the issues seem to be coming from. Say tuned this may eventually get resolved. John S. I've started a new thread to discuss where I have got to on this: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 I'm looking for people to try out the kernel modification I've made and wanted to avoid diluting all the useful information here with my tests. If/when we make progress on my thread will post back here. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
dynaudiorules;687173 Wrote: Would step 3 be done on the Touch itself or on the Server side??? I ask because I dont see the option you listed shown after I select Settings-Plugins on the Server side. Don't know or can't find LMS Web setting page either. Server side - its on the settings, plugin tab at the bottom of the page. Note also that the url text is compressed by this forum it should be: Code: http://triodeapplets.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/usbtestrepo.xml -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
dynaudiorules;687190 Wrote: Okay found out that Additional Repositories does not show on Linux servers. Shows on my linux server... I am using a Musical Fidelity V-Link, I get very faint pops about 1 min apart. Otherwise it works great. Does the instantaneous frequency update on the Usb Audio Output info display on touch? It could be that your dac has a smaller buffer than mine. This kernel overrides the rate at which the dac asks for data to make sure the feedback packets arrive. I will add more debugging info to the next kernel to help us understand more. Lets get some more reports first though. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
dynaudiorules;687194 Wrote: Yes if I select the V-Link on the Touch I can see all the information. Does it say the output endpoint is ASYNC? Also does the Momentary freq update (the page is refreshed once a second). On my dac every couple of seconds this updates to a value either side of the nominal frequency. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
dynaudiorules;687199 Wrote: Yes it says Async No update on the Momentary freq 44084 Hz (0x2c. 15a0) If I switch songs it updates 44113 Hz (0x2c. 1cf8) Hum - async is not working then - should be being updated.. Are you able to ssh into the touch and type dmesg - what does it say for the last few lines while it is playing? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Async USB Dac Experiments - testers wanted...
That doesn't look right - could you capture the entire dmesg and post here or mail to me? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93310 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
JohnSwenson;664319 Wrote: Another interesting tidbit is the firmware used. With an early 7.5.1 firmware I get LOTS of xruns with 88.2 (this is all aplay), but a recent 7.5.1 has almost no xruns (still a few about two per song). This is with everything else setup exactly the same. With 96 the early and recent 7.5.1 give about the same results. SOMETHING in the firmware changed which caused major differences in xruns. What firmware revisions are the differences between? Not sure I see any differences in what built them - should all be here: http://svn.slimdevices.com/jive/7.5/trunk/squeezeos/src/imx35/ -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
indypants;657761 Wrote: Hi Mjensen, First of all, thanks for sharing that info, it is very much appreciated. I've already got John's updated jive_alsa and also own the 8200CDQ DAC, but so far I still get the odd click coming through. Looking through your summary of changes, the thing that stands out that I've not yet tried is part (3), so I will be giving this a go when I get some time (and once I've figured out why USB doesn't seem to work at all since I downloaded the last official firmware upgrade :-( ). Your asound.conf updates also look quite different to the changes recommended by John, but would I be correct that this just a different way of achieving the same result? Cheers, Tim Interested in how people are using their USB Dacs - is it the only device attached? It does sound that the audiolab stuff doesn't work in async mode at present, I'm wondering about getting one and looking at the touch code. How frequent are the dropouts at present? [John did you ever just build the image with a newer alsa - I was thinking this may work for a usb only case?] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] RSS news feeds as screensaver
neilcoburn;578301 Wrote: Thanks, Toby10. I'm sure you're right about it being a Logitech effect. The thing I can't work out is that there is an official Logitech Info Browser Applet that allows one to read RSS etc, but unless you manually browse through the pages, you can't actually access it. And why would you want to use a Squeezebox for this kind of web browsing when most people will have devices better suited? Surely the obvious application of news feeds is to display the stories in a screen saver when powered off, just like RSS News Ticker does for Classic. Perhaps I'll post something on the 'official' forum and see if anyone from Logitech responds! So the official Info browser applet is a third party contribution from me - so although its packaged in the main release its 3rd party supported. I have been focussed on other things and have not looked at this side of things recently. I did look at this and decided it needed some C code to enable better scrolling if we want to make it look like a ticker - i.e. scrolling on one side and off the other. If we just want to display an RSS feed but not make it scroll of make it wrap round scroll (as RSS news did several years ago on classic) then it would be easier. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80402 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] InfoBrowser problem
bandi;549756 Wrote: Hi, I have installed the InfoBrowser plugin to the Touch, and it works nicely when the Touch is connected to my PC. While when connected to the SD card, I get the error message No information feeds found. Please check IB is enabled on server. Could you pls advice. Bandi Yes I suspect this is likely to happen - the problem is that it is trying to get information from the embedded server which does not support InfoBrowser. This is a bug - it should really give a better error message or try to get information from MySB.com. Could you raise a bug report for this? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79050 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Installed some applet on the Touch, how to use them?
Tony T;541020 Wrote: Then its a bug? I would write the report on bugzilla, but I wouldn't know how to properly explain this one other than it doesn't work :-) The applet list not appearing when using TinySC is a known bug which should be fixed in 7.5.1 (as in I believe I have fixed it, but would be pleased for any feedback) -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77505 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Installed some applet on the Touch, how to use them?
erland;541001 Wrote: I think it's more like a vision to have ALL available, the goal is probably to make it possible to install every applet on the official repositories when connected to MySB. Applets not on the official repositories will probably require a standard SBS. Of course, all developers can get on the official list, they just have to let Logitech know they want their repository to be added. Agreed - this is the current target. All applets seen via a clean server (no additional repositories added by the user) should also be available via MySB.com. Note that the selection of whether to include only recommended applets or all applets in the logitech hosted list is now performed by the player menu - this is so you can get the same list from MySB.com as a local server (but it means that the option selection or all 3rd party on the local server is not used when browsing the list from Touch or Radio) Now that we have more applets for 7.5 from Erland and others, I was thinking we should restart the voting process on the 3rd party forum so we can promote a few more applets to recommended status. This needs logitech buy-in, but the first step would be users recommending applets they see as recommended... Any takers? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77505 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SSH into my Touch, any nice things to explore?
scp and sftp are different - use scp as this should be available. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77491 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SSH into my Touch, any nice things to explore?
scp and sftp are different - use scp as this should be available. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77491 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Network test on Touch does not go above 2000kbps
I'm confused by the comment on network test being a bad name... The current test, tests the network performance from the server to the selected player. This shows whether there is enough network bandwidth in your home network to stream at this rate to the player. I think this is all that can actually be tested. It is the most useful measure for playback of local files from the server (which was the dominant use case when it was written) The problem with network test readings is the way it currently works - it can read low due to lack of cpu power on server or client rather than lack of network capacity. The original limitation came from the fact that its a server only plugin and I had no access to the player firmware to add any code. With Squeezeplay devices I now have access to the firmware and can think about this again. Given a low power cpu at the client end and a possibly low power cpu at the server end, the current method is always going to be an approximation. I hope it does provide some useful information though... -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77349 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Network test on Touch does not go above 2000kbps
Mnyb;535127 Wrote: Any chance that the web-UI based tool would come back as a plugin :) They dropped it from the sbs to save cpu, ram, whatnot ? All perfmon stuff is gone (for non programmers anyway, I suppose weird undocumented command-line options can still be used), i really liked that stuff. Actually I dropped the web interface when the event loop was rewritten and it would have needed a major upgrade. There were also lots of comments about users not understanding it! Instrumentation of how long the server takes to perform events is still available if you start the server from the command line, however the only output is to the log file/command line rather than a web page. I guess I felts the majority of the benefit was achieved by this without the questions about how to use it from less technical people... Anyway re network test, there have also been questions about how to dump down the interface on this to make it less geeky. If it didn't have any options but just showed a single display of how fast it could go - similar to a broadband speed checker, would this be useful? Is the history graph currently shown also useful? -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77349 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Network test on Touch does not go above 2000kbps
Yes - by design at present. Voting may help motivation to improve this (nb network test is all a 3rd party development by me so it needs me to find time to look at it or logitech to find time!) I know how to make it much faster, but have not had time or been certain on the requirement up until now. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77349 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
