Re: [MBZ] Steering Vibration
There are no caster bushings on a 124, that's a 140-specific issue. I would start by testing the steering shock - disconnect one end and see how much damping there is, it should take a lot of muscle to move it in out. Otherwise look for any play in steering linkages, particularly the idler arm bushings. Check wheel bearing play too. Wouldn't hurt to get the wheels balanced on a good machine like a Hunter GSP9700. Make sure your wheels have weights on the inside AND outside (dynamic balance), not a single weight in the center (static balance). A lot of shops do static balance on alloy wheels because they think people would rather have nasty vibrations than look at a little lead weight clipped on the outside edge where everyone can see it. (My word, what a fashion faux pas THAT would be!) Every time I get my wheels balanced I need to make sure I explicitly ask for this and they always look at me like I'm nuts for wanting a weight on the outside, but it's been the only way I can get a smooth ride. The MB 2-piece weights are sweet, they don't damage the wheel. =) -Dave M. -- Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:00:54 -0400 From: ned kleinhenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Steering Vibration My '95 E300D (124 body) has an awful steering wheel vibration at ~65 mph. At any other speed, very little vibration is noticable. I rotated the tires front to back and that did not change anything. From a web search, I found another list that suggesedt this may be caused by failure of the front caster bushings (on a 140). Does anybody on this list have experience with this problem? Ned Kleinhenz '95 E300D x2
[MBZ] W124 sunroof kaput
Hi all, I just had a sickening experience... hearing unnatural noises when trying to open my sunroof (down back) from a popped-up state. Something is broken but I can't tell what exactly. There's a bar that goes across the width, on the rear of the opening... the left side moves back, the right side stays put. Right now it's stuck/jammed in the popped-up state, which I guess is better than wide open, but still doesn't make the car useful in wet weather. Fiddling with it, I can get the left side to lower partially but not the right. Anyone have tips on how to get it closed without screwing things up worse? At the moment I'd be content with getting it shut and then disconnecting the motor. I know the general wisdom is to NOT attempt a DIY repair, and take it directly to a shop that knows how to fix this type of sunroof (very different than the simple, old W123 style). I'm probably going to end up doing that but not right away, if possible. I looked up the prices for some of the parts, and if it needs a new frame (eek), cost of everything will be $1000 *wholesale* - plus labor!!! (The old frame was superceded to a new style, which requires a half-dozen extra updated items, hence the higher cost.) BTW - this is on my 87 300D. The updated sunroofs started, I think, in late 1987 model year. Hmm... maybe I could rape the sunroof mechanism from my parts car! Anyone attemped a DIY repair on these and lived to tell the story? :-( -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] Weight of soy oil....what did you pay???
In the podunk towns I live next to, diesel popped to $3.25/gallon this morning. Might be $3.50 by sundown. If I can get virgin VO for $2.50/gal, point me to the vendor, please. I'll keep track of every drop and remit my DOT taxes promptly, honest Injun. -dm -- Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:43:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Weight of soy oilwhat did you pay??? About 5 gallons...if you paid less than $15 for the bucket I would be VERY surprised. PLEASE LET ME KNOW. 1,000 liters of food grade soy bean oil in KC comes to $2.68/gallon. Since I can still fill up for $2.49/gallon, it doesn't make sense yet...if things keep going like this, it soon will. Most VO-ers in Germany simply buy food grade VO and put it in - no filtering, no collecting and FAR cheaper than fuel at the pump. Christopher
Re: [MBZ] Rebuilt ECU
John, Potomac German Auto (1-888-873-3236) has two of that exact part number in stock for $125 each. Are you sure the ECU is bad? They don't often fail... :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:11:54 -0400 From: John Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Rebuilt ECU @uritc.org http://uritc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Has anyone found rebuilt or used ECU's anywhere online or elsewhere? I need one for a 1990 300D 2.5 and have come up empty trying to find one. Rusty? mercedes part 0085455032 (06) bosch 0281001094 John Peterson Kingston RI 1990 300D 2.5 120k 1991 300D 2.5 74k
[MBZ] RANT: Gmail attachments
I just learned one of the limitations of Gmail. You cannot send .EXE files
of any kind, even if they are in a Zip package! Renaming the .exe to
something else ('.exx' for example) doesn't work either, with or without
Zipping. Gmail still pops up the same error that executable files are not
allowed to be sent. Well isn't THAT just freakin' great. Anyone have a
workaround that doesn't involve posting files to an FTP server?
fume
--
Dave M.
Boise, ID
1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship)
1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
[MBZ] V8 CDI (Actual Mercedes content - sorry, gun lovers)
They killed the Touareg? In all 45 states? That sucks. I heard it was a pretty neat rig. (uh, 'reg'?) I'll have to pick up the Merc rag (for about $10, ugh) and read the new CDI review. I'm afraid I'll develop an unhealthy lust for one and start making irrational phone calls to my loan officer. If it will outperform the E500 gasser, it must be close to high 13's in the 1/4 mile. The sick part is, that's STOCK, and these computer-controlled turbo cars are often capable of staggering performance gains with a simple ECU reprogram or chip swap. Found a thread with specs and pics - drol: http://forums.thecarlounge.net/zerothread?id=1996708 730Nm of torque =:-O Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:49:11 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Passat diesels To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why not? It may well be. BTW, no one has mentioned that the Touareg diesel is gone too. My friend DM had one in the pipeline when his order was cancelled. He's trading his ML. The latest Mercedes Enthusiast (on the free reading stand at Barnes Noble) tests the new E420 CDI (twin turbo 4.2 V-8 diesel, a new engine for '06) which has more hp and performance than the E500. They raved about it. RLE/ Seattle
Re: [MBZ] Baddest W123 ever (OM606 powered!)
OMG. That's insane. Remember that reaction time does not affect the ET or MPH, it only affects if you win or lose the race against the guy in the other lane. Anyway, 13.1 sec @ 106mph... that's crazy. More pics here: http://www.nettiauto.com/viewVehicle.php?id_car=335361 Video here (40MB): http://takaisin.fi/ylivieska_15.5.2005.wmv Skip to 1:30 and then 3:35 for the W123. At 6:50 there's a nifty W201. -dm :-) On 8/30/05, Aaron Lam wrote: Remember that green 123 in that Finnish video where it lays down a bunch of rubber? Here are his timeslips: http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/225/03/scan8849.jpg 1/4 mile in 13.1 seconds, with a not-so-great reaction time too! The thread is here: http://mersuforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14797 -Aaron
Re: [MBZ] Baddest W123 ever (OM606 powered!)
Definitely a limited-slip rear in there. The link still works for me. Here's a direct link to an engine photo: *http://tinyurl.com/bnerf *Here's the original link tinyurled: *http://tinyurl.com/7dycj* Mauri had a similar engine (tweaked 606 turbo) in his 124 wagon and ran, IIRC, low 13's at a higher trap speed (117mph?). I asked if he had it dynoed, he said they couldn't get enough grip on the dyno rollers, but it was somewhere north of 450hp. He sold the car but kept the engine, plans to stuff it into a W201 and expects high 11's at 120-something (over 200kph). From a DIESEL!! -Dave M. :) -- Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:33:01 -0500 From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Baddest W123 ever (OM606 powered!) I'm not sure the chevelle SS396 I had in HS could do that well. That is impressive to lay down tracks like that in a diesel. He must have a limited slip diff. Are there pictures of the engine? I could not get the nettiauto link to work. At 12:28 PM 8/30/2005, you wrote: OMG. That's insane. Remember that reaction time does not affect the ET or MPH, it only affects if you win or lose the race against the guy in the other lane. Anyway, 13.1 sec @ 106mph... that's crazy. More pics here: http://www.nettiauto.com/viewVehicle.php?id_car=335361 http://www.nettiauto.com/viewVehicle.php?id_car=335361 Video here (40MB): http://takaisin.fi/ylivieska_15.5.2005.wmv http://takaisin.fi/ylivieska_15.5.2005.wmv Skip to 1:30 and then 3:35 for the W123. At 6:50 there's a nifty W201. -dm :-)
Re: [MBZ] 0W-40
That's exactly right. Two list members who tried the 0W-40 had lifter noise return on their OM603 engines, and one noticed a significant increase in iron wear particles in the oil analysis. Reverting to 5W-40 or 15W-50 cured both issues... lifters quieted down and iron wear went back to normal. Another use for thin oil is in search of peak power. Racing engines are sometimes fed watery thin stuff like 0W-20 which will give a percent or two peak power gain over thicker oils. But those engines are also torn down way more often than our street engines. I'd say AMG and Porsche specify the 0W-40 because it's a compromise between peak power MPG (super thin) and best protection/longevity (relatively thick). YMMV, I'm not saying it's bad oil (it's not), just that for MY engines I perfer Delvac-1 5W-40 (aka M-1 TS). =) -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:30:13 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] 0W-40 I think the 0W-40 is used as factory fill for fuel economy, not for protetction... I wouldn't put it in my cars. For fuel economy? Please explain. And keep in mind that low-performance slowpoke cars like the SL55 and the Porsche 911 Turbo use M1 0W-40. But it's not safe for your stuff? RLE/ Seattle
Re: [MBZ] More M1
As Marshall already mentioned, which you would have noticed if you had been reading your messages instead of making snide jabs at Kaleb... the M-1 0W-40 is on the thin side of a 40 rating. I vaguely recall something about the Amsoil 0W-30 having similar specs? Despite being awfully close numerically to the 5W-40 the two are WAY different. -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:43:03 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] More M1 Kaleb the Engineer tells me in re: M1 0W-40: Its too thin to provide good engine protection but does increase fuel economy. Lessee now, when it's cold and thin and thus provides startup lubrication sooner, that's no good. But when it's hot and acting like 40 weight it's providing better fuel economy. That's your theory, right? RLE
Re: [MBZ] TOILET PAPER filters (?!?!??!)
And THAT, David, is why I'm not interested in bypass filters. You do get near-virgin oil in the engine at all times, but there's nearly zero cost savings over just using extended drain intervals. Changing the TP every 2.5k and adding a quart would be somewhat of a nuisance to me. I would consider doing this if I bought a vehicle new that I wanted to keep for 500kmi, but otherwise, it's not my cup o' tea. =) -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:44:31 -0700 From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] crap in tanks and TOILET PAPER (?!?!??!) filters Marshall Booth wrote: one VW diesel owner did not CHANGE his Mobil 1 oil for 60kmi and when it was finally changed it was still honey colored and the TBN had not dropped more than about 50%. Problem was that he had to change the filter at least every 2500 miles or the filter would occlude, and with each filter change, a qt of fresh oil had to be added. The actual cost for the 60kmi was only about $10-12 less than if he had change the oil/filter in the conventional way - and there was the labor and disposal problems of changing the filter every 2500 miles (24 times) for 60kmi of driving. Just to play devil's advocate: A VW diesel holds 4 quarts of oil. He effectively did six oil changes in that 60,000 miles, one quart at a time.
Re: [MBZ] More M1
For those of you who missed the memo, and since Mobil won't fess up to it... Delvac-1 is now sold as Mobil-1 'Truck SUV' Formula but a lot cheaper. Usually $5/qt, or if you're willing to go to the Evil Empire, Mall-Wart has 5-qt jugs for ~$19.89. That's about $3.98/qt for Delvac-1, folks. If you buy D-1 in gallon jugs at the distrbutor, it's usually $24/qt or so. You do the math... but I'm buying mine in 5qt jugs!! Also, although designed for diesels, the D-1 / TS is an excellent oil for gas engines too. It has a different base stock than all the other M-1 oils, AFAIK. I use it in my 300E and E500 (and the Ford cargo van too). =) -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:45:33 -0500 From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] More M1 I'm leary of using 0 weight oil in a diesel as I don't think it provides enough film strength to protect the crankpin bearings on cold running. I stick with 5W-40 M1 truck and SUV oil in the winter and M1 15W-50 in the summer. Delvac 1, if you can find it, is better than the 15W50 as it is formulated for diesel, not general use. The fun thing with synthetic oils (all of them, not just Mobil 1) is that the viscosity changes much less with temperature than that of dino oils -- synthetic will have a much lower viscosity than dino cold, and much higher viscosity hot! It also doesn't produce sludge unless severely provoked. Peter
Re: [MBZ] A/C treatment
I'm interested too. Details, please! Also, does it work only with mineral oil, or with PAG/POE oils too...? :) -Dave M. -- Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:30:15 -0700 From: Gabriel S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] A/C treatment What is the product called? Is this something you sell? On 8/26/05, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what treatment are you talking about? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had mentioned a treatment for the A/C system in an earlier post. To explain quickly what this does... the A/C system requires both some type of refrigerant plus an oil for lubrication. The oils used collect on the lines of the system as well as function to keep the parts lubricated. This collecting on the piping is called oil fouling which decreases the efficientcy of the refrigerant. This product gets rid of the oil fouling as well as increases the lubricity of the system. I have used it in all six of my vehicles and it has worked in all (cold air). I am also a general contractor specializing in custom residential homes and have been using it in my home A/C systems. It increases the efficientcy so well the payback is one year due to savings in run cost. The treatment in all systems is a one time treatment for the life of the system unless you flush the system. If you live in the south and have a heat pump it increases efficientcy year round because of the way a heat pump functions. Any more questions just ask.
Re: [MBZ] proper and best fluids
Wooops - think I got that confused with the lifter issue, which was separate. (Sorry!) On second thought, I believe the lifter noise was with the 0W-40 variety of M-1, and the noise would go away when switching back to 15W-50 or 0W-40. Brian T wasn't impressed with the 0W-40 and someone else had less than stellar results too. I thought Marshall had that with SynTec as well, but apparently my memory was on the fritz and it was just a consumption problem (which IMO, is more serious!) I think the 0W-40 is used as factory fill for fuel economy, not for protetction... I wouldn't put it in my cars. YMMV, etc. =) -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 02:09:35 -0400 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] proper and best fluids Dave M. wrote: In addtion to what Jeff said... 1) Marshall noticed that his OM60x engines would develop lifter noise before a 5kmi change interval rolled around, which would go away when the SynTec was changed. Reverting back to Mobil-1 kept them quiet past 5kmi. This was, I believe, with the original 5W-50 variety. Marshall can correct or elaborate on this I'm sure. Actually I noticed that SynTec consumption rate increased starting at about 2500 miles. This is a CLASSIC sign of viscosity improver (additive) breakdown (it happens with MANY conventional oils - especially those that use ONLY group I base so must make extensive use of viscosity improvers). At about the same time I was puzzling over the increasing oil consumption rate, Red Line published a test in which an unnamed 5W-50 oil (SynTec was the ONLY 5W-50 oil sold in the US then) displayed marked reduction in lubricity that corresponded with the increased consumption rate I was seeing. It was later confirmed that the 5W-50 oil was SynTec. As long as SynTec is changed frequently, it's pretty good oil - much better than most conventional oils - but it needed to be changed MUCH more frequently than Mobil 1 - long before soot or other combustion by-products made it unsuitable.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 Oil Filter
There are benefits to using M-1 that are irrelevant to climate. For example the OM6x0 hydraulic lifters often won't be quiet without synthetics. And I've got better things to do than kill my precious time changing oil every month or two instead of once per year. Since there's no extra cost involved (if using extended drain intervals) there's really no reason NOT to use it. The myths about engines springing leaks are mostly BS, and in the few cases where that was an issue, it wasn't a NEW leak... it was an existing leak that simply increased. M-1 won't make up for your poor maintenance and relucatance to replaces leaking gaskets seals. In some rare cases M-1 has actually slowed or stopped leaks, from the additive package swelling the seals, but this is not very common. I have no idea what operating abnormalities you are talking about, the vast majority notice their engines run quieter and smoother with synthetics. Don't knock it until you've tried it, ok? -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:32:09 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 Oil Filter I don't mean to denigrate anyone's choices regarding the use of M1 but I do reject the notion that it is some sort of panacea that makes it the lubricant of choice for everyone. While it may be superior to regular oil in its chemical and physical characteristics (which can be scientifically proven), for some of us that doesn't matter, based on such criteria as where we live 9climatic conditions), our driving habits, and how devoted we are to our cars. I've also read on the list of issues associated with transitioning an engine over to M1 from conventional oil, such as leaks and operating abnormalities in the adjustment period. This, coupled with the added expense, is why I am not going to switch my 276 K wagon from Pennzoil or Rotella or whatever happens to be on sale (that is MB Approved, of course) to M1. As regards filters, I draw the line and only use Mann, Knecht, or Hengst.
Re: [MBZ] Oil analysis (was: Oh joy! Another oil thread!)
The bottle they provide for the sample is very small... about 2 ounces. I test at oil change time but you don't need to, you can suck a sample out of the crankcase at any time to send in for analysis. =) -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:46:05 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Oh joy! Another oil thread! How large a sample of used oil do they require to perform the analysis?
Re: [MBZ] PT Barnum (was: Mobil 1 Oil Filter)
That is SO true. The suckers are out buying fuel line magnets and air-intake turbulators, along with that PVI platinum vapor injection widget, which combined will give them 239% improvement in MPG. Oh and let's not forget radar jammers and insect-repelling whistles. There are lots of snake oils and other money-wasting items on the market. Group IV/V synthetic oils are not among them. =) -dm -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:40:28 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 Oil Filter That may be true, but there's still a sucker born every minute... On 8/25/05, JabbaHursty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in the 70s, mobil 1 promoted leaks. today, it often cures leaks. technology marches on!
Re: [MBZ] wierd SDL charging problem
I was kind of surprised Kaleb even asked the original question. :p This is a classic case of a flaky alternator. Most likely just the regulator needs replacing. If you do opt to change the alternator, might as well get a 100A+ unit instead of the anemic stock 70A (which has rather poor output at idle). I have a nearly-new 115A alternator for sale from my E500 if anyone wants it (I upgraded to a 150A). It will bolt up to any MB engine from 1984-up with a serpentine belt. =) -Dave M. -- Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:44:54 -0500 From: Potter, Tom E [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] wierd SDL charging problem. I agree with Peter. I had the same thing happen to me. Thomas E. Potter Telephone: (713) 215-2877 Fax: (713) 215-2551 Mobile: (832) 794-0536 -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:18 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] wierd SDL charging problem. The brushes are worn out on the voltage regulator. Get a new one, pull the splash pan, remove the old one (two screws) put the new one in, problem goes away. You must have at least 13.5 V at max load above 1200 rpm to charge the battery. This is a common problem -- you have about 200,000 miles, right? Peter
[MBZ] Clean those condensors radiators!
My electric auxiliary fan had been making more noise than usual this year, so I finally got around to changing it (sure is nice to have a parts car to swipe this stuff from, lol... and, uh, sorry Rusty!) Anyway, I found the mother of all dust bunnies hiding behind the fan: http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_stuff/condenser_crud.jpg There was a decent amount of bug parts everywhere else too. I picked out all the big stuff, brushed the fins with a toothbrush, un-bent the fins with a small screwdriver, and then blew things clean with compressed air (sorry, forgot to take an after photo.) I had the radiator out this past winter when the engine was pulled so I know things were clean betwixt that and the condenser, but if you have never pulled your radiator, TRUST ME, there is a pile of crap hidden that will shock you. This affects both cooling system performance as well as A/C performance, so it's worth a look! :-) Best regards, -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] Crazy to go 20K on any oil
There are no comments about filters because most everyone agrees on THAT point! ;-) Use OE or OEM filters from Rusty. That would be Hengst, Mann, and Knecht. Order a half-dozen at a time to save on SH. Don't use the McParts store filters (although in a pinch, I would probably use the Wix filters from NAPA if I had to.) Same applies for metal spin-on filters used on the M103 engine (and most other gassers), but there are some non-OEM filters that are decent... the infamous Oil Filter Study has details on those. I like KN personally, due to the built-in nut on the bottom. Avoid Fram, Penzoil, and STP like the plague. :) Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:39:23 -0500 From: Don Teresa Merriman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Crazy to go 20K on any oil OK please don?t flame me or what ever you computer geeks do, I asked the question about Mobil 1 and have learned a lot, how ever I am very surprised there are no comments about the quality/brand of filters used. When I was in the biz there were lots of knock offs on filter brands. I cut apart filters and spread the contents out so customers could see what they were getting for their buck. So now a new question, what is the best brand of filter to use with a synthetic lubricant?
Re: [MBZ] proper and best fluids
It's not hype. It's well documented fact. What most people forget is that you don't just dump M-1 into your engine and blithely drive 20kmi before changing it. You need to do oil analysis on YOUR engine at certain intervals to make sure your interval is correct. After you've tested at (for example) 5k, 10k, 15k, and 20k and have proved that the levels are safe for YOUR engine and YOUR particular driving habits, you can generally quit the analysis and just change every 20k (or whenever the testing says it's due). Your car will last just as long if you feed it quality dino oil that is changed every 3kmi, I'm not disputing that. I just don't believe that is any cheaper and it offers ZERO benefits. Side note... that Aurora that Don Snook mentioned with tar in the crankcase after 25kmi on dino oil? That same engine likely would have had ZERO damage at the same 25kmi point if it had been fed M-1 at the previous 3500 change. I'd bet one of Kaleb's cars on it. :-) -dm -- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:42:27 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] proper and best fluids Gary, Enjoy your new cars but BE SKEPTICAL OF THE M1 HYPE! Unless 1) you live in an extreme climate (Phoenix or Winnipeg, e.g.), 2) plan on keeping both cars forever, AND 3) will do the sort of driving that allows you to take advantage of the extended oil change benefit afforded by Mobil 1, you'll probably do just fine with ANY Mercedes-Benz approved ordinary motor oil. Andrew 1983 300TD 277 K miles and never seen a drop of M1 or other expensive synthetic lubricants.
Re: [MBZ] Oh joy! Another oil thread!
After you factor in cost of shipping the sample, etc, it's roughly $20 per analysis. I get the extended drain kits from Snider Petroleum which include testing for soot percentage: http://www.sniderpetroleum.com/oilanalysis.html I usually get 3-4 at a time to save on SH from Snider. :-) Dave M. -- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:49:28 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Oh joy! Another oil thread! BTW where does one get an analysis done? what does it typicaly cost?
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 Oil Filter
The M-1 oil filter was rated fairly well, it's one of the filters I like and would use on my cars. I've never seen a cartridge filter though, only spin-ons, so no M-1 filter for MB diesels yet (although you can get them for M103 gassers). For more than you ever wanted to know about oil filters, read this: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html :-) -dm -- Date: 24-Aug-2005 15:06:51 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 Oil Filter To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have seen Mobil 1 brand oil filters at the parts store. I wonder if they make these for the Benz's and we could convince Andrew (non-believer !) to use them ? Of course they don't come cheap and contain space-age polymers. Dan Elliott 82 300D-T 84kmi
Re: [MBZ] Crazy to go 20K on any oil
Bah, that's mostly Amsoil sales hype. ;-) That link is comparing ONE particular Amsoil product to ONE particluar M-1 product. And, it's a weight not approved for use in Mercedes engines (being an xW-30, which is too thin.) Amsoil actually buys their base stocks from Mobil and then adds their proprietary additive package. Amsoil is great stuff, don't get me wrong. I feel most Amsoil oils are about equal in performance to most M-1 oils, and either will embarrass all the Group III 'fake' synthetics (which are basically hydrocracked dino oils that exhibit some of the properties of true Group IV/V synthetics). Simple answer: If you want to use synthetics (which we've already agreed isn't for everyone and that's OK!), just buy the Mobil-1 5W-40 variety. Period. Works in all climates and in all MB engines. Under $4/qt if you don't mind shopping for it at Mall-Wart (yeah, I know, the evil empire... but we can't get the 5qt jug anywhere else.) The M-1 15W-50 is now only available as 'Extended' for more money, and IMO, it's not worth paying a premium for it. :-) -dm -- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:27:34 -0700 From: Rory [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Crazy to go 20K on any oil Just an FYI on Mobil 1 http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/amsoil_vs_mobil1.aspx
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 Oil Filter
Whoa, now. For the record, I use OE or OEM filters from Rusty for all my Mercedes. That's not what I'd call caviar. Bratwurst, maybe? When it comes to other filters, all are NOT created equal. There is some serious garbage out there. The M-1 filter is a top quality filter, but it's not cheap. I'm not sure if I'd use them or not. Maybe if I were doing extended drains. Definitely not every 3k though. To reiterate the original point, my usage of Mobil-1 oil extended drains is actually CHEAPER than changing dino oil every 3-4k. It's a win-win for me, I get all the benefits of synthetic usage, with basically no extra cost (or at least minimal extra cost). I'm almost afraid to mention using helium in the tyres to increase MPG and extend tyre life while improving traction. That's also sold by Exxon/Mobil. (kidding!) :-) +dm -- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:56:37 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 Oil Filter Talk about the ultimate anality - - Mobil 1 Filters!! The whole point in driving a Mercedes diesel is there are so FEW things to worry about, coupled with low maintenance costs. It seems utterly ABSURD to decorate the innards of a nearly indestructible engine with the equivalent of caviar, while fattening Exxon-Mobil profits (which aren't as high as our GNP... yet). On 8/24/05, Dave M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The M-1 oil filter was rated fairly well, it's one of the filters I like and would use on my cars. I've never seen a cartridge filter though, only spin-ons, so no M-1 filter for MB diesels yet (although you can get them for M103 gassers). For more than you ever wanted to know about oil filters, read this: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html :-) -dm
Re: [MBZ] proper and best fluids
In addtion to what Jeff said... 1) Marshall noticed that his OM60x engines would develop lifter noise before a 5kmi change interval rolled around, which would go away when the SynTec was changed. Reverting back to Mobil-1 kept them quiet past 5kmi. This was, I believe, with the original 5W-50 variety. Marshall can correct or elaborate on this I'm sure. 2) IMO, almost all the synthetic oils on the shelf at McParts are the fake Group III stuff (Rotella Syn, Valvoline, etc). There are not many true synthetics left, but at the moment Amsoil, Mobil, and Red Line are all the real deal. For more than you EVER wanted to know about oils (and I'm not joking here), check out this website: http://bobistheoilguy.com/ For the record I don't believe in any oil additives and the site above basically agrees with that. For 1-time cleaning purposes, AutoRX is neat stuff but that's not a magical additive like most claim to be - it's specifically for cleaning. Neat stuff actually. :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:18:39 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] proper and best fluids BTW someone mentioned that the castrol syntec was not true synthetic. Any details on that?
Re: [MBZ] Oh joy! Another oil thread!
1) All Mobil-1 oils can suspend 2% soot, which is when Mercedes recommends changing the oil anyway. 2) Every engine's soot production is different. My 617 engine would reach that 2% limit by 5-7kmi, while my 603's are maybe 1% at 10kmi. You need to test YOUR engine to find out when to change the oil. Changing synthetic every 10-15k vs dino every 5k is actually cheaper when you factor in the cost of filters your time, and if you buy the 5qt jugs at Mall-Wart (of 5W-40) for $20. 3) Both the 5W-40 and 15W-50 weights of Mobil-1 are suitable for nearly every temperature extreme in the USA. No need for thicker oil in Death Valley summers or thinner oil in Minnesota winters. I strongly prefer the 5W-40 (Delvac-1) over all the other varieties, I use this in ALL my cars, gas and diesel. 4) Hey, it's not for everyone, but it's not some big waste of money either. If people are happy changing dino frequently, great. I've got piles of oil analysis that prove to me it's cheaper for MY cars to do extended drains with synthetic, no external bypass filters required. (Bypass filters are a whole separate topic... but I couldn't see any advantage for MY use.) YMMV, etc etc, flame suit on, yadda yadda... :-) Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:33:44 -0400 From: Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Oh oh, another oil thread It's the People's Cult Oil. Well, people who argue that buying Dollar Store Old Yeller at 99c a quart is just as good in the long run are in their own cult too, RIGHT ;-)? Mobil 1 was originally marketed as having the ability to outlast other oils, but people are still changing it out every 3 - 5 k miles anyway. That makes it REALLY Very Expensive! Well, first, lots of people who use Dino change every 1-2k miles on gassers, which is also more expensive and could be argued to be wasteful. Second, I think this discussion was about diesels, and it's not a secret that M-1 cannot suspend the soot and diesel combustion byproducts unless a secondary filtration setup is present, so 3-5k miles is about as far as you can push it. Plus some of us live in colder climes that switch to extreme heat in the summers, so we often have to drain our oil well before its service life anyway, to use a more suitable weight for the season, just a fact of life. mac
Re: [MBZ] WIS
Here's some screen shots of the WIS, if you were wondering what it's like: http://vzone.virgin.net/titanium.34/kms/wis/wis.htm BTW, the 124 (and 126?) coverage is the same as on the CD-ROM's, but adds transmission repair information. The later models (210, 211, 203, etc) have more complete information since those were not originally created as paper mauals (AFAIK), like the old 124/126 stuff was. :-) -dm -- Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 06:13:09 -0700 From: Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] WIS On 8/21/05, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pardon my ignorance but what is WIS? It's what the dealer techs resort to when they're in over their heads. I've lost track of the link, but you can buy time online from MB for viewing downloading purposes. There're I have no clue how many versions floating around available thru ebay and such, and I've likewise no clue as to what percentage of those available actually work. A pain to set up and not altogether intuitive to use, it has virtually nothing on 123 and earlier models, only limited coverage of 124 126. Full coverage begins for m/y '95. Some of what is covered in the cd manuals of the earlier models is identical to what can be found in the WIS. WIS is so far as I know the only real source of info on the later models for which there are no cd manuals. joe
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Digest, Vol 3, Issue 168
If it needs a new ICU (probably meaning the LH fuel injection module), they are available used from salvage yards in the $250-$500 range. No need to plunk down $3k for a brand new one. These don't often fail, though. I'd look elsewhere first. :-/ -dm -- Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:28:48 -0700 From: Desert Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] SL 600, poor throttle response Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news but this sounds like someone's recent problem with a S500. Turned out it was the ICU. The retail on this ICU alone is $3,275 but that is for a V8 so expect to spend more for a V12! Of course, there are other less expensive possibilities which a treament of techron might cure or even a tune-up. You didn't mention how many miles are on the SL600.
Re: [MBZ] Jabba's stolen car
Oh my GAWD, where did you score that? I thought I was doing great to pick up a near-mint 300E for $2400 but that was an '86 with 200k on the clock. I'd have soiled myself finding a 92 for the same price (with body updates and full leather, standard in 92!). After fixing all the assorted little things (cruise, worn steering stuff, etc), replacing all fluids and most rubber/plastic hoses, and generally cleaning it up I don't think I'd let it go for much less than double that. (It's REALLY clean.) Pics are here: http://www.w124performance.com/images/cars/86_300E/ Side note: After driving a 603 diesel, the M103 gas engine just seems plain anemic below 4000rpm... especially in the summer with the A/C on. Oh, and sorry about that Saturn... poor guy... :-) -dm -- Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:47:34 -0400 From: JabbaHursty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] people are on crack i paid $2500 for a very nice 92 300E. deals are out there if have the patience to wait for one. my wife stole it from me though so i'm driving a saturn :(
Re: [MBZ] Question about vacuum shut-off servo replacement 87 190D Turbo
Robert, You need to disconenct the electrical connector. That should allow the vac pod to come out. The brown plastic lock ring will come off if needed. I would strongly recommend removing the ALDA, it makes the job go MUCH faster. I did this job once before I knew the ALDA could be removed and it took about 2 hours. I could probably do it again in under 30 minutes... :) -Dave M. -- Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 11:56:51 -0400 From: Robert Massmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Question about vacuum shut-off servo replacement 87 190D turbo Well before I tackle the crankshaft seal tomorrow I thought I would try and replace my leaking vacuum servo for the engine shut down. Has anyone replace one on the 190 2.5 turbo engine. I found the steps in the electronic manual, but it didn't say anything about the electrical connector that is in the way. I removed the clamps screws, front one wasn't too bad but the back one is a different story, it is tucked down between the valve, the electrical connector aldi. A small 10 mm ignition wrench and many 1/8 of a turns finally got it out. At this time the servo is trapped by electrical connector retainer ring. There is a connector that plugs into the pump, it is held in place with a light brown ring that rotates on the connector on the pump. The plastic ring extends over top the metal ring that the clamps contact and hold the servo in place. I have attached a small photo. Can the plastic ring come of the electrical connector. or is there enough room the lift up the servo out of the pilot hole and slide it out of the way of the connector retainer ring. I know there is only a short pin that engages with the shut off valve. The way it is right know I can not seem to remove the servo. Any insight would be helpfull. Regards, Robert Massmann Wilmington, Ohio 87 190D 2.5 Turbo 234K?
Re: [MBZ] W124 ACC vacuum pod replacement tutorial
Actually, I would part with it, but for a price... probably more than most on this list would care to cough up, I'm afraid!! I need to post some current photos of the completed car, I don't have many (any?) with the enormous iForged wheels mounted. ;-) -dm -- Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:29:11 -0500 From: LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 ACC vacuum pod replacement tutorial I want your 500. Please prepare to head east on I-80 and I will email you specific exit rural routes to my house separately. Be sure to bring return air fare from Des Moines. And thank you. :-)
Re: [MBZ] Locked Ignition
Yeah... what Mitch said. My W123 gave no warning and locked up while my wife was driving the car out of state last year. Despite heroic efforts from family to make the lock turn, the car ended up being towed to an indy shop who was NOT happy to see what had happened, and they demanded $600 for the privilege of making the key work again. I was not happy either. :-/ -Dave M. -- Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:50:43 -0400 From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Locked Ignition Joe Mendyka wrote: other times it can take 20 minutes of trying to turn the key before it goes. Do not lock the ignition again until you replace the lock cylinder (aka tumbler). The last time you unlocked it may be the last time you are ever able to lock it. MBz did not design the car so that a locksmith can take it apart when it's locked. If you don't want to pay $500 in labor for a mechanic to drill out some parts that are about as hard as a drill bit, you will order a replacement lockset bright and early tomorrow morning. (or buy one out of dealer stock and deal with the fact that the ignition isn't keyed alike with the doors) Just turn it to the left until the engine shuts off and leave it there until you replace it, don't turn it all the way to the leftmost (locked) position.
Re: [MBZ] New lock tumblers failing?
Yes, but if you read the link I posted, Neil has at most three keys on the keychain... no undue weight to cause a tumbler failure in less than 12 months. Other ideas? :-( -dm -- Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:16:09 -0400 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] New lock tumblers failing? Dave M. wrote: Oh great - I'm about to replace a 20-year old tumbler, thinking that it's safer than waiting for it to act up and then seize, then I read THIS: http://500ecstasy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2334 I'm replacing it anyway, and hoping Neil's experience was a fluke... Tumblers WILL fail quite quickly if there is sufficient weigh hanging on the key - especially if the car is driven aggressively. Marshall
Re: [MBZ] 87 190D Front crank seal repair
Robert, Call some indy shops. I had this done for, IIRC, a little over $200 a couple years ago. The torque spec for the flange is huge, something like 310Nm. No strap wrench is going to hold that. I bought the flywheel lock tool off eBay, I would not attempt this job without one. I don't know any way to lock the crankshaft solidly enough to break that bolt free (or re-tighten it to spec, which requires a HUGE torque wrench) without the correct tool. The dealer's price is crazy, though. Should be 3-4 hours tops plus parts. Radiator may need to come out, which is half the labor time. :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:54:57 -0400 From: Robert Massmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] 87 190D Front crank seal repair List I am going to try an replace the front crank shaft seal on my 87 190D. I do not have the locking bracket, but was planning on using a strap wrench around the pulley itself. Is the pulley strong enough to take the squeezes of the strap wrench. or some othe method to hold the crankshaft. I would also like to know if the hub that slides onto the shaft is a sliding fit or a press fit. Just would like to know if there any other gotchas before I start. I called the dealer in Cincinnati and was quoted $510 for labor. Any other insight would be appriciated. Regards, Robert Massmann Wilmington, Ohio 87 190D 2.5 Turbo 205K?
[MBZ] New lock tumblers failing?
Oh great - I'm about to replace a 20-year old tumbler, thinking that it's safer than waiting for it to act up and then seize, then I read THIS: http://500ecstasy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2334 I'm replacing it anyway, and hoping Neil's experience was a fluke... :-( -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing chain stretch
I may get flamed for this, but: 1) If you don't love the car, and/or don't plan to keep it long term, I'd just install one of the offset keys to correct the cam timing and then adjust the IP timing back to spec. Chain replacement is kind of a pain, there's lots of opportunity to screw it up and cause hours of rework, and it's not cheap either. Mercedes allows up to 10 degrees (!!) correction with the offset keys. Some people have installed NEW chains and seen 4-6 degrees of stretch that needed adjustment with the offsets (the sprockets were fine, btw.) My theory is the 61x engines have looser tolerances that cause this, although I could be wrong. 2) If it's a car you really love and/or plan to keep for MANY years, then yes it would be smart to replace the chain, and probably the tensioner as well. Replace the sprocket too if there is any sign of wear on the teeth (there isn't usually.) 3) Side note for folks with OM60x engines... if your chain is 4 degrees or more stretched, you should replace the chain. There are no offset keys for 60x engines. I've never heard of a new 60x chain not bringing the timing back to zero, like it should: http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/OM60X/OM60x_Timing_Chain_TSB.pdf (70kb PDF) :-) Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:17:20 -0500 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing chain stretch good enough, chain is not that hard. Just remember though it doesnt take much of being not exactly centered up top to make the stretch look worse at the crank. Luther Gulseth wrote: I did check 3 times as I adjusted the valves, and it was at 4.5 or 5 each time. Sounds like I get to do a timing chain.
Re: [MBZ] Chain crimp tool
What you see on eBay at that link is a cheap copy tool, not the genuine Mercedes tool (which is made by Iwis, btw, the chain manufacturer). The cheap eBay tool will not press on the middle plate for the new OE style master links, the genuine tool (with appropriate jaws) will. (The aftermarket master links have slip-fit center plates, btw.) The genuine tool is sold in pieces... the main body, the crimp jaws, the pressing jaws, etc. Even better, the aftermarket tool jaws are NOT compatible with the genuine tool (and vice-versa), although they LOOK identical they are not. The genuine tool with double-row crimp jaws is somewhere around $300-$400 now, I forget exactly. Here's a photo of the assorted pieces in the factory case: http://www.w124performance.com/images/tools/chain_tool2.jpg BTW - I have a set of double-row crimp jaws for the aftermarket tool that I don't need and would sell real cheap if anyone needs them! :-) -dm -- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:47:54 -0400 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 6 degrees of stretch dave walton wrote: Is this the correct tool? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Double-Row-Timing-Chain-Press-Repair-Tool_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4568203046 That's quite a low price for that tool. With the proper jaws, the tool used to be well over $200 and that was before the dollar dropped in value. I figured they would be $300-350 by now. Marshall
Re: [MBZ] 93 500SEL Offtopic
It's loads of fun, trust me. :-) I have the same engine but in a lighter car (E500) with a few extra ponies from some intake exhaust mods. My best 1/4 mile time here at 2700' elevation was 13.86 @ 101.29mph... I'm itching to try it at sea level (expecting 13.6 @ 104mph, maybe.) I believe 'ETA' is 'Electronic Throttle Actuator', AKA the TBA (Throttle Body Actuator)... same thing, different names. About $1k for that part on an M119 engine. Luckily mine had it replaced just before I bought the car. :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:48:09 -0500 From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] 93 500SEL Offtopic I did sort of wonder what it would like to drive this car with that much power and acceleration. I certainly can't drive it like I stole it. I get in enough trouble when I drive I drive my wife's V6 Explorer. Donald H. Snook 1990 300D 2.5 245K
Re: [MBZ] AC Dead
I don't know what year the fuse fix was added, or if it ever was before the W123 ended production. My 1984 300D still used the 25A stock fuse and it was always melting/blowing and causing problems. I added an external GM-style 30A fuse located in that little relay box on the driver's fender, which solved the problem permanently. This was cheaper than using new OE components (I had the GM stuff floating around in my Pot O' Gold), although if you can find them used that would be a more 'correct' solution. Even the early 124's had this problem, it was corrected in the middle of the 1987 production run... all 124's after 1987 have an external 30A flat fuse. :-) -Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 01:48:29 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Dead (snip) Also, about that year, a field modification was made to put the some of the AC loads on a separate in line fuse, near or in the fuse box. A larger fuse was deemed necessary to carry the loads reliably. Someone else chime in on what year this was added, please. Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ
Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon?
Bingo, Joe. In parallel on B10/6, in the left side of the heater box, pretty close to the ignition/steering lock. I would test your vent temps first... if 50-ish, go with the 80-85k shunt, if it's already in the mid- to low-40's then try the 90k shunt. As long as you stay over 36-38F min vent temps (after the mod) things should be fine. I'd be nervous below that. With 65F ambients this morning I saw as low as 37-38°F vent temps, which IMO is perfect. :-) -dm -- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:30:58 -0700 From: Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon? So, humor me will ya? The shunt being referred to is across the leads to the evaporator temp sensor, B10/6, located under the r/s of the steering column? Am I sort of in the ballpark? And Spud, the resistors are in parallel, correctimundo? joe
Re: [MBZ] FS: New R-134a hoses for manifold gauge
Think we're talking apples oranges here... adapters to connect R-12 hoses to an R-134a system won't help me. The female threaded fitting on the R-134a hoses looks the same, but it is larger than on R-12 hoses. Guess they're off to eBay when I have a chance... -dm -- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:32:22 -0500 From: Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] FS: New R-134a hoses for manifold gauge I also got a set of adapters for my r12 gauges/hoses. Cost me about $35. Royce Engler 1985 300TD Turbo 265K
[MBZ] OT: BMW 535D video
Neat video on the new BMW diesel - see link below (approx 20MB Zip file). My favorite parts were: 1) The fuzzy kittens 2) The smoking tyres near the end! Side note... while they didn't want to point it out, if you look closely, it turned a faster laptime than the Lotus Esprit V8!! Also, this car has a dual-stage turbo setup... small turbo at low RPM, big turbo at high RPM. WAY cool. I bet with a chip it would outrun the 'petrol' version. :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline) -- Forwarded message -- From: Aaron Lam Date: Aug 11, 2005 2:38 AM Subject: BMW 535D video Starring good ol' Jeremy Clarkson. Neat car - it would be a blast with a manual tranny. I wonder if they'll bring it over to compete with the MB E320 CDI. http://www.autoclips.net/upload/1s3v7kqbj9r4.zip -Aaron
Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon?
Brian, Good question. I belive the recirc small lift is dead on this car, allowing 10% outside air, but not allowing 100% recirculation either. Regardless, if there was excess load due to warm air, or if the evap was dirty, AND the cutoff was normal (mid/low 40's), the compressor would never cut off or cycle. It would stay in the 50-ish range and not cycle. The fact that it cycles proves (to me, anyway) that the cutoff temp was too high. I'll be replacing all the pods on this car soon - just received them from Rusty two days ago. BTW - the diverter would normally operate some of the time, on off, when the AC is engaged. This car has a dead diverter pod as well as center vent, so I'm measuring from the side vents. The temp difference would be minimal though. After all the pods are replaced I'll re-test the system to make sure temps aren't too cold. :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:52:47 -0500 From: brian toscano [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon? Dave, What is the chance that the recirc flap is not closing all the way allowing 100% outside air. This would hurt the effectiveness of the system for sure. Also what about a possibly dirty evap. Doesn't the recirc flap at least partially engage anytime the A/C is on - or maybe the source was incorrect. I know on my white car that was an issue because it always sucked outside air. Brian
Re: [MBZ] Boy is my face red...
Roy, The connection from turbo to air cleaner is not under pressure - that's the air intake. All the pressurized connections are hard line to the intake manifold. It's good that you fixed it, but you were NOT losing any boost pressure there, nor would this affect rough running. About the AC, if you suddenly get hot air, check the fuses. If one of the fuses (I forget which) is bad or intermittent, it turns off the monovalve and you get full heat. Could also be a failing monovalve insert, or a flaky pushbutton unit, or temp control unit (which is separate on the W123 - weird setup.) :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:26:00 -0500 From: Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Boy is my face red... My 300TD has been running REAL rough for a while. The other night I had a flash of intuition and thought I'd better check the connnection from the turbo to the air cleaner. I had taken the air cleaner off a few weeks ago to adjust the valves. Sure enough, it had not been tightened. As a result, whenever I put my foot into it and the boost pressure built up, it blew past the loose fitting and made a sound like a relief valve lifting. As you might guess the resulting loss of boost pretty much eliminated any ability to accelerate. I also did an exorcism on the A/C and have pretty much eliminated the demonic possession that was causing it to suddenly blow hot. A/C seems to be doing a relatively good job of cooling, and only occasionally goes crazy. I still suspect something in the mono valve, even though my indie said he checked it. He did think it might have a weak solenoid(?). Anyway...I have bigger fish to fry and if I can hold the A/C demons at bay for a while, I'll focus on power issues. Royce Engler 1985 300TD Turbo 265K
Re: [MBZ] OT: BMW 535D video
Hey, that's a neat service! I uploaded the full file (30MB) here: http://s18.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=10BSMZ90G5X1D3DC2T3RWJ5LHF :-) -dm -- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:34:40 -0400 From: TimothyPilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: BMW 535D video Crap. The DL cutoff after a short time and had a very slow DL rate. Can somebody upload it to www.yousendit.com and post the link? Tim 1982 300TD Moby
Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon?
Hi Peter, Sorry for the confusion. Let me clarify what was done. The system did not work when I bought the car in the winter. I shorted the switch to see if the compressor would run at all, which it did, and it was quiet too. I put gauges on it and there was some pressure in the system, it was just low. We evacuated the system and then pressurized it with 300psi of dry nitrogen, shut off the gauges, and let it sit for about 3-4 hours, no loss in pressure meant no big leaks. We then pulled vaccum with a proper vac pump (29.x vacuum) for a good hour or more. Then the system was charged with the specified 2.4lbs of R-12 from a tank with a digital scale. After all that the compressor didn't run... turns out the pressure safety switch was kaput! I shorted it and voila, working AC. I wasn't about to discard a full charge of R-12 just to change the silly switch. If/when the system loses enough charge to affect performance (hopefully a few years from now), then I will replace the switch the next time I need to open up the system. I'm not crazy about running it without the safety, but it will have to do for now. :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:44:23 -0500 From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon? Bypassing the low pressure switch will cause the compressor to run any time the PBCU calls for it, although it will still switch off as evaporator temp drops or it is cycled for temp control. The low pressure switch on protects against inadequate freon (and no compressor lubrication). Do not leave it shorted, if it's low, get it pumped out and fix the leak, then replace the switch and properly recharge. I heat the cans of freon in some hot tap water (only as hot as the water heater delivers it!) making sure the can stays upright. If you leave it at room temp, it can take forever to transfer because the low side pressure is too high. I would strongly recommend against adding freon to a system without a working gauge set -- it's fairly easy to add too much and blow a high side hose! Peter
Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - UPDATE!
Hi all, Today I pulled the ETS (evaporator temp sensor) from the problem car as well as my parts car. I stuck both into an AC vent in my house along with a thermometer, let them settle in, then measured with a meter. To my surprise, both had about the same readings, and both were in spec - barely. At 15°C (60°F), spec is 15.3-17.2kohm, and mine measured about 17.2k... wrong end of spec for cold air, but within spec nonetheless. With that depressing fact in mind (I was expecting the sensor in the problem car to be out of spec), I decided to try the resistor shunt trick Marshall posted. I added an 82kohm resistor pack in parallel with the sensor. Now at the same temp, it measured approx 14.2kohm, a full 3k less. So far so good - now to re-install. Back in the car, remember my old temps were in the range of 50°-54°F and would not get below 50 regardless of ambient temps. With the shunt-modified ETS, those temps dropped a full TEN degrees! I now get a range of 40°-44°F with an occasional dip to 38-39°F. I can't wait to try it on a hot day... of course, now we have a cooling trend starting tomorrow, no more 100°F+ days to really strain the system. This should make a HUGE difference in cooling! I'm still confused though, since my diesel runs at 38-42F without the shunt modification. I believe that since the ETS sends a signal to the pushbutton unit, which then decides when to turn the compressor on/off, there must be something that wears out or fails with age in the pushbutton units that causes the temp range to creep up, even though the ETS is within spec (albeit the wrong end of allowable spec). My diesel has a recently rebuilt p/b unit, which could explain the good performance. The 300E p/b unit is of unknown age (but it works fine otherwise.) Side note - my E500 with stock R-134a system cycles in the 42-44°F range with no shunt. I'll probably add one to that car when I replace the vac pods and bump it down to the high 30's. Moral of the story... if you are confident that your refrigerant charge is normal, and you can see the temps cycle in a 3-5° (F) range and observe the compressor cutting out even though min temps are nowhere near the low 40's (F), the ETS shunt trick may be just what the doctor ordered. Just remember to re-test if you ever replace the p/b unit afterwards, in case my theory is correct... in that case the shunt would need to be modified or removed to prevent evaporator icing. :-) Best regards, Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
[MBZ] FS: New R-134a hoses for manifold gauge
Hi all, Silly me thought I could buy a set of R-134a hoses and screw them on to my old R-12 manifold gauge set. Guess what, the fittings are different sizes - d'oh! They don't fit. Now I'm stuck with a brand-new set of SPX / Robinair Enviro-Guard hoses (really nice set, actually) that are useless to me. Part number 60072, I paid $37 plus SH... asking $35 with free SH, OBO... Any takers? If not, I'll dump them on eBay eventually. New in box, never used... :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - UPDATE!
Hi Bob, Marshall has the post with more technical info, I have it at home. I used a pack that measured 82kohm. I'm getting as low as 37-38°F (3.5-4.0°C), which is ok with me. Something more like 90k might be a little safer. Mercedes says temps should not go below 5°C (41°F) but IMO that's a little overly cautious, especially in a dry climate. Anyway, I got 1/2 watt (I think) resistors from Radio Shack, $1 for a pack of 5. They don't have the exact resistance we need, so I bought a pack of 1M ohm and also a pack of 100k ohm resistors to build the desired pack: 91kohm = one 100k, plus one 1M 82kohm = one 100k, plus two 1M I just twisted the leads together and soldered them into the leads at the male plug connector. It's kind of a pain but not that hard. I took a photo of the solder job with the three resistors, it's not pretty but it works. I'll post it to my website eventually. :-) Dave M. -- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 06:24:27 -0400 From: Bob DuPuy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - UPDATE! Hey Dave, Thanks to you and Marshall for pointing this out! What type of components did you use for you resistor pack? Bob D.
Re: [MBZ] FS: New R-134a hoses for manifold gauge
No such luck, Tom. The system adapters are for a male standard fitting to a quick connect. The hoses are a female metric thread. They need to attach to the proper R-134a manifold gauge set... :-( -dm -- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:48:56 -0500 From: Potter, Tom E [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] FS: New R-134a hoses for manifold gauge Will the adapters used to convert your low and high side system connections to R-134 work to adapt the hoses to the manifold? Thomas E. Potter Telephone: (713) 215-2877 Fax: (713) 215-2551 Mobile: (832) 794-0536 -Original Message- Hi all, Silly me thought I could buy a set of R-134a hoses and screw them on to my old R-12 manifold gauge set. Guess what, the fittings are different sizes - d'oh! They don't fit. Now I'm stuck with a brand-new set of SPX / Robinair Enviro-Guard hoses (really nice set, actually) that are useless to me. Part number 60072, I paid $37 plus SH... asking $35 with free SH, OBO... Any takers? If not, I'll dump them on eBay eventually. New in box, never used... :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID
Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon?
Peter, The W124 does not have a monovalve like the earlier cars... it's a different design that rarely leaks. With the AC off and the vent on min temp, I always get ambient air, not slightly heated, so I'm almost certain the monovalve is not the issue. I have an R-12 system with actual R-12 (gasp!) and I hope the expansion valve is not the problem, since that requires evacuation to repair, and the old R-12 valve is not available from the dealer anymore (not sure if we can still get it via aftermarket or not.) I'm still hoping for a simple fix with the B10/6 evap sensor :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 17:13:51 -0500 From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon? Does your monovalve leak? Are the pressures correct (i.e. does the expansion valve work properly)? The actual evaporator temp is controlled by the expansion valve, so if it runs a bit warm, so will the evaporator (or if it has some crud in it). They are fairly easy to replace. If the monovalve leaks, you have reheat when you don't want it. My TE is quite cold, AC works a charm. On the 300D, it's only cool at idle, cold above 1000 rpm. Unless you have a bigger condenser, R134a will run a bit warm above 100F outside temp, worse with high humidity like we have here. Peter
Re: [MBZ] 140 S350
Oooo... nice car, and a new engine too! I almost snarfed coffee out my nose when I saw the price, though. Looks like the seller is trying to recoup the cost of that new engine - plus labor. OUCH... they're about 50% over book value... =:-o -dm -- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:26:44 -0500 From: Gary Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 140 600SEL Dave, Here's your rod-bender. From the Austin American-Statesman: http://cars.statesmanclassifieds.com/autos?property=austintp=Austintemp_type=detailclassification=autosad_id=23011098
Re: [MBZ] 140 600SEL
Kaleb, The M120 motor is very closely related to both the M119 and the M104, I believe. It's a pretty solid engine mechanically... but electrically, well, all the M119/M104 problems apply - wiring harnesses, EZL failure (ok, that's not real common), TBA (that's more common), etc. There are two of everything on the V-12... two TBA's, two EZLs, etc, IIRC. Gobs and gobs of power though. If the airbox is anything like the M119, it just pops off in a few seconds of tugging - no big deal. Nice design, actually. As to the comparison to the old 600 limo, I think it's warranted but not apples to apples. The old 600 limo requires the resources of a medium-size country with lots and lots of oil reserves in their deserts. You have *got* to be certifiable to own one of those things. Now the W140, with any engine, merely requires the resources of a large city, perhaps a small state. If you intend to do DIY work, you either need the WIS or that new service DVD (they'll have the same info but in different format I think), and the patience of Job to try and troubleshoot anything (or just to learn how to navigate the WIS!). Parts cost, well, let's just say Rusty will be sending you more than just a card come Xmas. ;-) If you get it, Kaleb, you need to get some fat 18 AMG or tuner (Brabus, Lorinser, etc) wheels on there to complete the look! Definitely a sweet ride if you can afford it. I bet the cruise works quite nicely at the 155mph governor. :-) -dm -- Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 21:12:36 -0400 From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 140 600SEL Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Any trouble with them? IIRC, saying a 600 Limo (6.3 V8) requires the resources of a small country to keep roadworthy is like saying a V12 600 requires the resources of a medium sized country. Besides, who wants to pay 20 cents per mile for fuel?
Re: [MBZ] preferred $5000 car? (kinda OT)
Rob, No contest... late 80's, early 90's E-class (W124 chassis). You can even get AWD if you can find a 4Matic that had the transaxle replaced. I'd shoot for a 1990 300D 2.5T, the only 'ritual' is waiting a few seconds for the glow light on a cold start. Hard to argue with 30-34mpg and all the Mercedes features...! (OK, ok, I am a wee bit biased... I have three W124's plus one parts car and there are 2 others in my family.) Although I might get flamed for this, I'm not a big fan of Camrys or similar recycled beer cans... economical and reliable yes, safe in a major crash, no. That's one of the major reasons I drive Mercedes... anything short of a ready-mix truck with 12 yards of concrete on board, and the odds are heavily in your favor! I kind of like Subaru (especially the WRX STi) but I don't think they fare much better in the crash survival metric. :-) Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 22:39:35 -0400 From: Rob S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] preferred $5000 car? (kinda OT) What will $5K get ya nowadays? Redhead's Plymouth Breeze is in need of more work than it's worth, and she commutes 70 miles a day. We're not going to take out a loan to buy a car so the cap is about $5K. less would be much better. Safety, Fuel economy, reliability without much maintenance, and drivability are the key shopping points. Early C classes are starting to fall into this price range, although I doubt they're reliable at that price. late 80's, early 90's E classes are right about there. Subaru Legacy / Outback are great AWD contenders. 90's Accord / Camry are boring as anything but easy to find. She wants an airbag, AC, automatic, and ABS. That's really all she requires as features. She doesn't mind riding in my 123, but has no interest in driving a diesel, or any car requiring a ritual to start it or turn it off. any opinions? -Rob York PA
Re: [MBZ] 140 600SEL
Kaleb, EZL is the electronic ignition module/brain. On the M119 cars, they're about $3k new, very hard to find used, and $750-$1000 used. Not a common failure but I heard of several in the V8 community in the past year or two. It's the kind of thing you keep your eyes out for and grab a spare if you spot one on eBay for a few hundred bucks. One lucky guy scored a spare for $300, I would have been all OVER that if I had seen it. The TBA is Throttle Body Actuator, the electronic throttle body widget that has a motor that opens closes the throttle butterflies (it's all electronic on this engine, remember). That's not as bad, maybe $1k each, but they're also known to have a limited life span. The previous owner of my E500 replaced this before I bought it, and mine was a 94 with only 90kmi. I think it's a wiring failure, so a car from a hot area (Phoenix, Sacramento, etc) may have more issues like this but I'm not sure about that. Don't forget the timing chain rails, if the rails start to come apart, the cost to replace is ginormous, as the whole front of the motor has to come off (and maybe the heads or lower oil pan too). The chains usually last 150kmi or so before they stretch enough to change, and that's more complex than a diesel chain replacement, but it's the rails that you don't want to mess with. VERY hard to tell if the rails are OK other than pulling the lower pan and inspecting for big chunks of debris (AFAIK). :-) -dm -- Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 07:49:27 -0500 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 140 600SEL what is ezl and tba?
Re: [MBZ] I/P Delivery Seals
One tiny adjustment... the torque range neeed is, I believe, 30-40Nm,
not lb-ft... make sure you use the proper setting on your wrench.
Over-torquing can damage the pump. The torque procedure is listed in
the TDM (Tech Data Manual), not the normal service manual (don't ask
me why).
:-)
-dm
--
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:58:49 -0400
From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I/P Delivery Seals
Peter Arnold wrote:
Dave mentioned that changing the Delivery Seals may repair my pump.
Is that in the POS manual? Parts Tool from my usual Source {Rusty
or Salvation Army Thrift Shop}
I will be trying to advance the idle screw clockwise tonight per
Marshal's suggestion.
--
Delivery valve seals will NOT fix a problem with idle speed adjustment
Replacing delivery valve seals is RARELY needed, but IF required,
nothing else will solve the problem. Maybe 1-2% of Mercedes injection
pumps require them during their lifetime. There is really NO reliable
test of delivery valve seals except with the pump on a test stand. It is
probably wise to replace the pump seals IF you're going to replace the
O rings on the delivery valve pipe fittings as the seals are
inexpensive, but it's rarely actually necessary. The only reason to
replace the seals is if there is uneven delivery from the IP to the
injectors. My very crude test of delivery seals is to remove all the
injection lines and crank the engine while watching what comes out of
the pipe fittings - each should deliver about the same amount of fuel. A
really proper test (the way it would be done on a test stand) would
measure the output and pressure of each port during some number of
revolutions of the pump - each should deliver about the same amount of fuel.
When playing with the injection pump a little finesse and care is
required. The pump body is quite easy to distort if anything is
overtightened (usually repaired by loosening and retightening using
the proper torque/release technique as outlined in the Tech Data
Manual), or a little too much force on a wrench CAN crack the housing
and if that happens a new pump is the only solution.
I do NOT recommend people trying to tune up their injection pump as
injection pumps rarely fail, do NOT routinely drift out of adjustment
and about 90-95% of all injection pump problems occur right AFTER the
pump has been adjusted. Only if all of the injectors have been TESTED
and shown to be working PERFECTLY but fuel delivery still seems uneven
is there sufficient justification to even consider playing with the
delivery valve seals (in MY opinion). Get half a dozen new seals AND O
rings (and several spare O rings as it's easy to damage one or more
when installing the delivery valve fittings). Oil the O ring when
installing it. You'll need the splined socket and a torque wrench
accurate in the 30-40 lb-ft range. The fittings CAN be removed with the
intake manifold in place (but it's a little tight).
Worth checking the engine manual.
http://mb.braingears.com/124_DISC1/Program/Engine/602_603/07.1-8627.pdf
Marshall
Re: [MBZ] Car advice
Hi Mathieu, For driving 60kmi per year, I would want something with good MPG, unless the company is paying for it. I would strongly lean torwards a 1990-93 300D 2.5T in excellent condition and fairly low miles (low 100's). They should be plentiful in that price range. If he needs the extra room of an S-class, I'd go with the 300SDL. I would not want an OM617, he'd be doing valve adjustments every few months... ;-) -Dave M. -- Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:54:06 -0400 From: Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Car advice Fellow Listers, A customer of mine is seeking a car to use for his traveling sales job. He averages 60,000 miles/year. He was thinking of rebuilding a 300sd w126 for this, but the cost of doing so has him thinking of moving into something else or at least a far nicer example. Does anyone have any recommendations of what would be an ideal car for him to use? A later w126 perchance? Also, does anyone have a car for sale that would be up to this sort of use? He would like to find a car that would last him for 3-4 years (200k miles plus) at a minimum without having to perform major repairs. His budget limits him to under $10k. Ideally he will stay with a diesel due to fuel costs. TIA. Regards, Mathieu
Re: [MBZ] I/P Delivery Seals
Peter,
Could you remind us again what the exact symptoms are, and if it
started suddenly or gradually?
:-)
-Dave M.
--
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 05:57:31 -0400
From: Peter Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [MBZ] I/P Delivery Seals
Dave mentioned that changing the Delivery Seals may repair my pump.
Is that in the POS manual? Parts Tool from my usual Source {Rusty
or Salvation Army Thrift Shop}
I will be trying to advance the idle screw clockwise tonight per
Marshal's suggestion.
--
Peter T. Arnold
Re: [MBZ] 140 600SEL
Yeah, I was quoting prices based on dealer wholesale (Rusty) or used... my numbers are probably optimistic. I didn't want to totally scare poor Kleb like you probably just did, lol... BTW, my BIL is seriously shopping for a 1992-95 S350 diesel (yes, the rodbender). If anyone has a line on a cream puff, let me know. Strong preference given to examples with a documented replacement engine, although if it's original and uses zero oil and the price was right, I think that would be OK too (then I'd make him proactively replace the rods!) :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 13:37:30 -0400 From: James Zavesky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 140 600SEL Sorry Dave your not even close These are wholesale prices: ETA rebuilt - left $1300/right $1600. New the pair are 5k from the dealer. ignition control modules new are $3800 each (LR) $7600 for the pair from the dealer EA module is $2500 92 engine harness is $2300 93 harness is $1750 (thank you jesus my car used the 93 harness) M119 motor is different that the M120 in it's configuration. We have a M119 in the 1991 500SL remove timing chain cover to get to front rails. LOTS of stuff needs to come off. Huge PITA. when I get the diesel done that's next on the list when the ozone levels drop to something more normal. bent rods in a 350 are a cake walk. Jim
[MBZ] W124 A/C question - compressor cuts off too soon?
Hi all, I thought the AC was a little weak in my 300E yesterday, although it was 102°F outside. Today I drove it with a digital thermometer in the duct. The temps fluctuate between 49°F and 54°F, with fan speed on high OR low. Seems the system is cutting the compressor off way before it should, at least that's my guess. Question: What controls this? Is it *only* the evaporator sensor in the side of the heater/evaporator box, sending a signal to the pushbutton unit? Or could there be something else acting up? I found the FSM section on testing the evap sensor, I'll see if that's within spec, but if it is then I'm out of ideas. My other 124 will fluctuate about 10° cooler (say, between 40-45°F), which is what I expected. If it were low on charge (which I'm fairly certain it is not), the compressor would run all the time, trying to cool down to the sensor limit, correct? The system seems to be sort of working as intended, just at a higher temperature than it should. (???) Best regards, -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline) 1986 300E - 206kmi
Re: [MBZ] R-12
Despite 'only' some 17 states making it illegal, it's illegal to use any flammable refrigerant in a motor vehicle in the United States, if that motor vehicle's AC system originally contained R-12. (Don't ask me why they'll allow it to replace R-134a in the 33 other states, if the car originally had 134a - seems bizarre to me.) That includes Duracool, btw. But hey, don't take my word for it... read it here as part of the EPA test study guide: http://www.imaca.org/sg-13.htm#flammable :-) -Dave M. (EPA 609 certified as of last night - woo-hoo!) -- Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:19:32 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] R-12 BTW some states have laws against putting flamables in your AC system. Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia
Re: [MBZ] E55 AMG wagon in CarDriver
Bah... it only runs 13 in the quarter. *sniff* Now, if some tuner makes a chip that would make this thing run high 11's at 120+mph, at 3000ft elevation, I'll be making irrational phone calls to my loan officer and insurance agent...! But yeah, 10 years from now, at $25k, this would be pretty high up my shopping list of old Benzes to acquire. =) -Dave M. -- From: Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] E55 AMG wagon in CarDriver To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds like in another 8-10 yrs Spud'll be drivin' a wagon. ;) On 8/8/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... The E55 AMG wagon article was quite entertaining. Same drive train as the E55 AMG sedan, but better performance on all counts due to superior front/rear weight bias in the wagon. Eats most Ferrari's for lunch (Corvettes and other 'Merican iron should stay on the porch). MSRP ~$90k, but with only a couple hundred slated for the states, sightings will be few and far between.
Re: [MBZ] R-12
Joe, That's a good question - might be a loophole, if one actually wanted to do this. However to me it would be highly undesireable because you would need to contaminate a virgin mineral oil system with POE in order to do the 134a conversion. I'd be more interested in keeping it PAG/POE-free than wanting to use a certain refrigerant. To me, the only advantage of the flammable stuff is cost - it's cheap. ;-) On a side note, all this discussion about pulling less than 29 vacuum to me seems absurd... if you want the system evacuated properly with as much moisture as possible boiled out, you're not going to get that with a venturi pump (27-28 max) and definitely not from an idling gas engine (20-22 max at idle, imo, unless you're revving it and shutting the throttle.) Only way to get 29+ is with a dedicated vac pump. They're available for rent if you don't want to shell out ~$200 to buy a new one. (flame suit on) -dm -- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:36:49 -0700 From: Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] R-12 To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been under the impression that where otherwise legal you can meet the EPA standard by first converting an R-12 system to 134a and then convert to HC. In other words for practical purposes, empty the system, install 134 fittings, et voila. Not so? I'm sure I've heard that argued don't see anything in the text that would squash that interpretation. Well, I'll admit that the shortcut 'conversion' might kinda fly in the face of it, but so what...? joe
Re: [MBZ] MY Injection pump is FUBAR?
Hi Peter,
Weren't you the guy who posted recently about the rough running
problem at idle? (My memory ain't great, so I forget.) If so, don't
call the pump FUBAR yet. It may just need delivery valve seals...
about $50 for the parts AND special tool, plus an hour or two of your
time. These things usually don't just fail unless they have some help,
if you know what I mean. ;-) If not - what leads you to believe it's
broken, other than your reputable source? What are symptoms and what
led up to this?
The RR process isn't too bad - remove vac pump, remove cruise
actuator, remove pump, installation is reverse. Special lock tool
highly recommended (~$30). A competent indy should be no more than 4-5
hours, IMO. Probably twice that for a first time DIY.
:-)
HTH,
Dave M.
Boise, ID
--
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:56:27 -0400
From: Peter Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [MBZ] MY Injection pump is FUBAR?
Wise Klatta Group;
SHMBO will not be pleased!
What does one do when confronted with an injection pump, which has
been deemed BROKEN by a rather impeccable source?
Do you buy them rebuilt? Where? {Hello Rusty?}
Rebuilt carburetor for my '46 Ford was $7, this will be more? How
much?
How many hours will I be paying to RR this thing? I think it is
beyond me; I hate working on this car with POS manual on CD.
Any knowledge of Indy's in Connecticut that work on these?
--
Peter T. Arnold
Windsor, Connecticut
U.S.A.
1987 Mercedes 300SDL,
[MBZ] Injection line clips for OM60x
Hi all, I finally uploaded the photo of the OM60x clips with part numbers, for easy future reference. Here's the link: http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM603_injection/inj_line_clips.jpg Note to anyone with an OM60x engine who has NOT replaced these... do yourself a favor and order a whole set, should be $20 or so from Rusty. Much cheaper than metal injection lines, which are about $30-$40 each, or something ridiculous like that. (Don't ask how I know... or just look at some of the other photos in that directory.) Enjoy! :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] R-12
Minor clarification... R-134a will work in an R-12 system if you do the full conversion process. It's not just a matter of emptying the system and charging with R-134a (although that's a great way to destroy the AC system right quick like.) Converting any mineral-oil (R-12) system to a PAG/POE system (R-134a) is a very VERY undesireable thing to do, even though the performance is about equal if you live in Canada (eh) or Alaska. (steps off soapbox) In case anyone wants to read the full official R-134a conversion/retrofit procedure from Mercedes, here's a link to the factory document (200kb PDF file): http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/134a_retrofit.pdf :-) Best regards, Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 04:31:08 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] R-12 R-134 will work in r-12 systems but creates higher pressures with the same volume.
Re: [MBZ] R-12
I was thinking the EXACT same thing. I thought the procedure was awfully weak for being the official factory dogma. Basically the mineral oil remains, same as the McParts-style 'retrofit' kits, and you just add PAG/POE oil on top of it... then wait a few years for the infamous Black Death to pooferate the system. Back on soapbox... if you have an R-12 system, don't ever put PAG/POE oil in it! Use a mineral-oil compatible refrigerant only (R-12, AutoFrost, Duracool, etc). =) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline) Dave M. wrote: In case anyone wants to read the full official R-134a conversion/retrofit procedure from Mercedes, here's a link to the factory document (200kb PDF file): http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/134a_retrofit.pdf I'm reading the factory procedure for the old York and Harrison compressors you listed above and thinking what a crock. They attempt to remove the mineral oil by flushing it with your old R12 and pulling a vacuum, put the R134 adapters on, fill with R134+PAG, and that's it. No barrier hoses, no mention of what happens to PAG when you run it through chlorine coated condensorevaporator. They get points for saying to replace the receiver/dryer, where most of the mineral oil is probably sitting.
Re: [MBZ] R-12
Hi Royce, I hope I'm not just being a Chicken Little here, but switching to Freeze-12 from 134a is probably a really bad thing. Your system would have been fed PAG/POE oil during the conversion to R-134a. The problem is, FR-12 is not particularly compatible with those oils, even though the mfr may claim it is. Read this page for more info: http://www.autofrost.com/hotshot/index.html The R-12 replacements (FR-12, AutoFrost, HotShot, etc) are all great products but only when used in an original, virginal R-12 system that still has mineral oil and has NOT been contaminated with PAG/POE oils. At least that's my opinion. For a car that's been converted to R-134a, or otherwise has PAG/POE oil, and you want a cheaper or more effective refrigerant... I'd try to use the GHG-X7 or -X8 products from AutoFrost. I believe these will perform better than DuraCool (which I think is safe for PAG/POE oils, it just doesn't work all that great in hot climates.) :-) Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:22:14 -0500 From: Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] R-12 To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've just been through the saga of dealing with my a/c system, and it ain't over yet. Here are some of the things I've learned along the way... Converted to R134 a few years ago when the evaporator started leaking. That worked for a couple of years...started having troubles with it this year and took it to an indie a/c shop for work. They said the compressor seals were blown, and put in a new compressor. They then determined that the KLIMA relay was toasted (I'm not sure how good an analysis this was). They put in an aftermarket KLIMA, and started having problems with them frying. I say them...I don't know how many of them they went through before they got one to last. One of the other things they did was to replace the R134 with Freeze12, which claims to be a replacement for R-12. I did a google on it and found out that it's certified by EPA and readily available. It seems to cool well. The indie a/c shop swears by it... Continuing on...blew the KLIMA relay (the aftermarket one) again, so I took it to my regular indie, who said they had been having troubles with the after market KLIMAs and put an OEM KLIMA on it. That part of the system seems to be working, but I still think I'm losing FR-12...as I drive I keep hearing something from time to time that sounds like a relief valve lifting. Gotta check into that some more today. Royce Engler 1985 300TD Turbo 265K
Re: [MBZ] Electric fan and AC.
Jay, Find the AC receiver/drier, located behind/below the driver's side headlight. Locate the red-colored pressure switch - here's a photo of what you're looking for: http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/thumb/R105529376ACM.JPG Disconnect the wires from the switch and short them together with the key on (or engine running). The electric fans should turn on low speed when these wires are shorted. This red switch turns the fans on low when refrigerant pressure reaches 16 bar, and turns them off at 12 bar (approx 240psi and 180psi). :-) HTH, Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 01:25:58 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric fan and AC. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are the two electric cooling fans suppose to come on when I turn on the A/C, on my 95 E300D? If not, at what temputure do they come on? Do you, or anyone, know a the test procedure to determine if the electric fans work? I have never seen them run. Thank you, Jay 95 MB E300D 92K The new baby
Re: [MBZ] for Dave M.
Woops! Sorry about that Don. I don't recall setting a different reply-to addy, but apparently I did back when I set up the Gmail account... which would explain why I was getting responses to my old address! As you discovered, I have turned off that address... it will probably stay dead for 6+ months in an effort to curtail the insane amount of spam I was getting (100+ per day). =) -Dave M. -- Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:27:02 -0500 From: Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] for Dave M. To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Huh? How can a reply to your email be an invalid address? ---
Re: [MBZ] Turbo adjustment on a 300SDL, A/C search for parts
Hi Nick, It's highly unlikely the turbo wastegate needs adjustment. More likely is the ALDA needs a slight tweak. Your numbers are pretty close to spec, you should be approx 13 seconds to 60mph near sea level assuming your speedo is accurate (check with GPS) and you are using a stopwatch for timing. If you put a boost gauge on the car, put a T in the line to the ALDA, spec is 12-14psi at 4000rpm at full throttle under load. Most OM603's are set around 12psi, in my experience. A half-turn CCW of the ALDA screw might be enough to help things out, maybe a full turn if you don't get excess smoke leaving a stop. The odd part is the car is slower with the AC on. There is a WOT cutout switch on the throttle linkage that is supposed to turn of the AC compressor at full throttle. Perhaps your throttle linkage is not adjusted properly, or the switch is faulty, or a wire is broken. With the AC on, you should be able to push the switch with your finger and observe the compressor turn off while the switch is engaged. Here's a photo of the switch: http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM603_misc/microswitch.jpg Not sure about the AC engagement issue, could be one of a number of things - not sure where to start. I'm not a W126 expert so I'll let someone else pipe up on that topic. :-) HTH, Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Gough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Turbo adjustment on a 300SDL, A/C search for parts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In my early efforts to sell the 86 300SDL (I've postponed that one a year or so... finances), someone mentioned after driving it, that the turbo was weak and it needed to be adjusted. He suggested that it was a valve of some sort. I've always thought that the only adjustment on any turbo was the wastegate. The car does fine with the A/C off, in the 0-60mph run (about 14 secs) and about 16-18 secs with the A/C on. A/C is another story... most of the time it is great, but sometimes it just doesn't kick in... like a switch or fuse is keeping the compressor from kicking in. Anyone with advice? Regards, Nick Gough 86 300SDL 168k miles
[MBZ] 15 minutes of fame
I forget if I sent this to the list or not, but anyway, scroll down near the bottom: http://www.firebirdonline.com/Imports/Imports_2005/05_imports_1.htm (For those of you having trouble getting past the first few pics, I believe #5 won the 'other' contest.) I got 1st in the Euro Cup class. The photo below mine is the winner of the Pro Sport class (or something like that). It's an AWD Eagle Talon with 600+ rwhp, it runs 10.80's at 136mph on street tires... just stupid fast. At a sea level track (Firebird is 2700') with the NOS turned up a crack, he's hoping for high 9's at low 140's. (I wonder if you dropped a 240D out of an airplane if it would ever reach 140, lol!) :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Digest, Vol 2, Issue 190
Good point, Andrew. Also remember than any restriction in line with the ALDA will reduce part-throttle power, as the ALDA will get a delayed signal from the charge pipe. This was the fix Mercedes foisted upon the 1986/1987 models to correct a lean surge with the cruise control. It's shown in the FSM complete with restriction orifice, an extra switchover valve, and a bunch more plumbing. With the EGR/ARV disconnected and ALDA adjusted it's not needed - I removed it from my cars. I think you would need more than 1-2 inches of vacuum before it would actually affect fuel delivery but I'm not sure about that. =) -Dave M. -- Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:05:20 -0400 From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Boost line check valve? Casey, I have been playing with the signal to the ALDA with the 617 engine, not yours though. If there is a check valve (at least on the 617) the ALDA will stay pressurized from your peak boost even after you take your foot off the go pedal. Until it leaks down to the correct intake pressure your IP will be spitting out more fuel at a given throttle position than it should be. Perhaps, Marshall can weigh in and confirm. Out of curiosity, how much is a fair amount of vacuum? Andy On 7/29/05, Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latest thread about leaky valve stem seals has gotten me to think about the presence of pressure and (a little) vacuum in the intake manifold. I've been monitoring my boost pressure gauge and have detected a fair amount of vacuum in the intake off idle until boost builds. I'm also experiencing a bit of throttle lag off idle, before the beast leaps forward with a vengeance, so I'd like to put a pressure check valve in the line between the manifold and ALDA, so I can test a theory (btw: I know about adjusting the ALDA screw or shimming, so hold that thought). Does anyone know of small orifice check valve for either pressure or vacuum (I assume these can just be turned around, right?)? Does MB or another make use one of these check valves? I've seen vacuum filters and reducers, but not a small orifice check valve so far. TIA -- Casey Biodiesel: '87 300TD intercooler (206k)
Re: [MBZ] 140's, new cars, degrading wiring etc
About the wiring problem, I'd expect all years to have that issue. On the W124, every model between 1992-95 had this issue. The replacement harnesses you buy today, brand-new, are made of the SAME stuff and will have the SAME problem in another 10+ years. (Hey - don't shoot the messenger, OK?) Did they change materials mid-stream on the W140? I don't know for sure but I highly doubt it. If the car you buy does not have the harness already replaced, plan to replace it. On the W124's, it's mostly just the harness that goes from the CAN box to the engine itself (injectors, sensors, TBA, etc). The alternator harness was toast on my car too - major PITA to replace. The body harness (to headlights, etc) is normally NOT affected, which is good, because that harness is stupidly expensive. All the harness prices can vary widely based on year and specific model... for example, the 500E harness is about double a 300E harness (ouch). Here's a photo of my original alternator harness: http://www.w124performance.com/images/cars/94_E500/restoration/starter_harness_old.jpg And here's the new one: http://www.w124performance.com/images/cars/94_E500/restoration/starter_harness_new1.jpg Luckily it was 'only' $150 and 'only' took about 6 weeks to arrive from Germany... my E500 had the engine harness replaced by a previous owner and so far is not showing signs of failure again. :-) -- Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:39:29 -0500 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 140's, new cars, degrading wiring etc Yea I knew about all those problems. Now wiring deal, so the 92's and 93's had the same problem? John M McIntosh wrote: Yawn, it's late just finished a 3 hour highway drive in the w140, really nice to drive. So lets see... a) 92/93+ had shimmy problems, fixed that by redoing suspension system which lowered the car an inch or so. b) expect the oem expensive blower regulator to fail, third-party or later regulators come with bigger heat sinks c) boshe vacuum pump () under passenger rear seat packs it in, that controls trunk door locks d) biodegradable wiring, this might have changed in 98? Someone on benzworld.org had a 600SEL with an older throttle actuator with toasted wiring, yet the other throttle actuator made in 98 was fine and had different color wire. http://www.mbnz.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp? tid=1202133start=1fid=13 Some options where deleted in 95 (I think) then added back, really you want a 98 or 99 which apparently fixes many things.
Re: [MBZ] OM603.960 question on valve stem seals..
You guys keep me honest, anyway... I just checked my records. I ordered 103-050-00-58 back in Jan-2002, specified aftermarket parts (trying to save a few bux). I assume they came from WorldPac (but I'm not sure of the exact source - I just faxed Rusty a list of stuff I wanted.) I received the 'bulky' seals with no metal body - but I have no idea if those were 'original' 603 seals or not? They were, at the time, $10/set. Fast forward to March 2003 when I ordered a Genuine Mercedes seal kit - same part number, 103-050-00-58, but $27/set (wholesale!). These were the metal-bodied seals. Interestingly, the EPC shows the 00-58 part number as ONLY used on the OM60x engines, not on any gas engines, despite the 103- prefix. And, the 01-58 part number shows as ONLY used on the M10x engines, not any diesels! I almost think the original seals I received were a mistake from the WorldPac (or wherever) warehouse. Some photos from WorldPac's site: == Diesel engine valve seals, 103-050-00-58: http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/A806923971HEB.JPG Gas engine valve seals, 103-050-01-58: http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/A806914288HEB.JPG :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:54:33 -0400 From: Kevin J. Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603.960 question on valve stem seals.. To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] I chatted with Rusty (nice new feature by the way) about this late this afternoon. He tells me that the only way Dave got different seals from him was because they still had some in inventory (somewhere). When I asked him whether I could get the same ones he said no chance. And went as far as saying if I go to the stealer, they'll give me the M103 versions and not the OM603 version that shows on Dave's site and on the WorldPac site too. Oh well, I guess I'll have to see what they fit like. Luckily I have a spare head with some valves still in place so I can at least get a clue as to whether they'll fit. ...Kevin (Slater - getting to be too many of us, Kevin's that is, although probably true for Slaters as well..) Mars, PA 87 300TD 272k miles
Re: [MBZ] OM601 injection pump timing
Minor clarification. There are two tools... the lock tool, which is $20-$30 or so, but some people claim to have had trouble purchasing it in the USA. Here is a photo: http://www.w124performance.com/images/tools/IP__lock_tool.jpg The other tool is the proper tool that has two lights. This tool costs $250 or so, but is what the factory service manual specifies for setting pump timing. Here's a photo: http://www.w124performance.com/images/tools/IP__RIV_tool.jpg The lock tool is NOT intended to be used to set/adjust timing, but it can be used to accomplish that - it just takes a little more work, and more care - if you turn the engine with the lock engaged you can bend/break the tab inside the IP and not be able to set timing correctly at all (read: buy a used IP from a salvage yard.) First step is to check the camshaft timing relative to the crankshaft since you rolled in a new chain, if that's at zero like it should be, second step is to set pump timing. I'm told some people can come pretty close with NO tools by using a mirror to look for the little tab through the hole in the IP but I've never attempted this. :-) HTH, Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:53:29 -0700 From: Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM601 injection pump timing To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 01:00:50PM -0400, Jaime Kopchinski (BNA) wrote: Hi All, Can you someone lend some advice about setting injection pump timing on a '84 190D 2.2? I don't have a W201 CD or manual... Can this be done statically... set engine to TDC, pull pump and rotate to a timing mark and reinstall? Or are there special tools needed? I have no way to check timing as it is now. Did a head gasket on the car and rolled in a new chain and I suspect the injection timing may now be off. Engine runs, but has little power and sounds kinda funny. Easiest way is to use the tool. There is the proper tool which is somewhere around $300-350, there is a lock tool which scares me, but is much cheaper, and there's some doodad with LEDs on it that can be found on ebay. The PO of my 190D 2.2 had the latter. If you put a new chain on it, it's likely that the injection timing isn't the problem, but the cam timing wrt the crank is off by a few degrees. It won't run well at all if it's a couple of teeth off. K
Re: [MBZ] OM603.960 question on valve stem seals..
Joe is correct, those were my exact symptoms. Idle for 30 seconds when warm, then rev it up and it blows blue smoke. On my car it was a dislodged seal on an exhaust valve. The oil was leaking past the stem and getting blown into the manifold, where it was burning somewhere in the exhaust stream, I presume. If it's an intake seal the symptoms may be slightly different? Make sure you use OE/dealer seals from Rusty, not the aftermarket ones (they're different - see photo below.) http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM603_head_replacement/valve_seals.jpg :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline) Wish I had a better understanding of that as well. All I know is that Spud had very nearly those same symptoms, smoke when leaving a stop w/ a warm engine, and he reported that new seals solved the problem on his car. I'll cc this to him on the chance he'll be able to enlighten us. j On 7/28/05, Kevin J. Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe, leave the originals alone is just what I did. My #17 head was from a wrecker down in TN somewhere south of Nashville. I needed to get my car back on the road so I guess I took the shortcut of not even looking at the seals. It was Dave M that put me on to the consideration that they may be my blue smoke problem. The smoke only shows up on a warmed engine, after idling for a while and then starting off, it produces blue smoke. The exhaust odor isn't the normal diesel smell either. It has a burnt oil smell, but worse, maybe b/c of the Mobil 1? (Never burned that stuff so I don't know what it should smell like.) I did have the foresight to replace the bad hydraulic valve caps/lifters/whateverthey'recalled. In any case I still have the question of where is the oil actually going during this process that produces blue smoke? Is it leaking down into the combustion chamber and being ignited? Leaked into the exhaust manifold and vaporizing from the heat? Understanding that process and having a look at the old head would go a long way towards my confidence about tackling this job.
Re: [MBZ] OM603.960 question on valve stem seals..
I looked up the part number for OM603 valve seals and ordered them (aftermarket) from Rusty wy back during the head replacement job. When I replaced them due to the smoking, I ordered the same part number from Rusty but this time specified OE dealer parts, and got the other style that time. If you look at the EPC, the original OM603 part was superceded and MB now specifies the same seal kit for both M103 and OM603 engines. =) +dm -- Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:42:10 -0400 From: Kevin J. Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603.960 question on valve stem seals.. Joe, a couple of things: 1) Looking at Dave's website and then looking at Rusty's site and comparing, it looks to me like the shop installed OEM seals in Dave's car, but used the ones for a M103 head rather than a OM603. Check it out and let me know if you concur.
Re: [MBZ] Electric fan and AC
Jay, while I'm not sure about your specific model, all the other W124's turn the fans on low speed based on refrigerant *pressure* - on at 16 bar, off at 12 bar. So they may only run part of the time, but should usually be running most of the time if it's warm out (say, over 90F). The fans turn on high speed based on coolant temperature - previous diesels would trigger that mode at 105C but again, you have kind of a half-breed there and I'm not sure of the specifics. I forget if the 124.131 is included in the ETM or not - might be a WIS-only thing if you wanted to study electrical schematics... :-) Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 00:56:05 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Electric fan and AC. Are the two electric cooling fans suppose to come on when I turn on the A/C, on my 95 E300D? If not, at what temputure do they come on? Thank you, Jay 95 MB E300D 92K The new baby
Re: [MBZ] 1995 Mercedes-Benz E300 Diesel with blown engine
Don't even think about a 617 powertrain in a W124. Either fix the engine or get a used 606 motor to drop in. If you're a glutton for punishment, a 603 turbo powertrain would work, but getting things like the cruise control to function might be a real trick. A 606 turbo would be the holy grail but that would take tons of custom work and probably a Myna-Diesel massaged manual injection pump ($1500) and elimination of almost all the computer controls. Would be lots of fun, but not easy nor cheap. :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:51:16 -0500 From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1995 Mercedes-Benz E300 Diesel with blown engine Might be too tall. On 7/27/05, Gerald R. Flintrop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if a 617 and tranny would fit in it? Jerry
[MBZ] 1987 300TD wagon for sale in NC
No affiliation, etc... details are here: http://buymbparts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506 :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 258kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] '94 320TE, factory AMG pkg
Depends if it's a full AMG model, complete with 3.6L AMG motor, or just a US wagon with a (genuine) body kit. I want the body kit, though! The real deal will have full AMG suspension, too. MB offered one in each body at the end of the 124 production (sedan, wagon, coupe, cabrio). =) -Dave M. -- From: Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] '94 320TE, factory AMG pkg To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the classifieds this morning. Gray mkt? Struck me as being at the least something of a rare bird. joe
Re: [MBZ] ALDA max adjustment
You adjust the ALDA richer until you can't feel any more power gain off idle. This may produce a small puff of smoke leaving a stop, which is normal. Adjusting the ALDA may NEVER produce more smoke at WOT so don't bother looking for that. If you adjust it too far, you'll just be wasting fuel. =) -dm -- Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 01:34:28 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Re: ALDA max adjustment In a message dated 7/13/2005 4:25:57 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mine was un-touched. I didn't want to go prying apart the wrong thing so I compared it to my 84 which had the ALDA adjusted.I pried the little plastic cap off with a pair of gasket picks and then grabbed the thin metal with a pair of needlenose pliers and rolled it off like a sardine can lid. I've adjusted it half a turn and it drives better and still no smoke. What IS the proper adjustment? keep turning anti-clockwise (as the brits say) until Is this alda thing related to the altitude compensator? perhaps they are one and the same? Many thanks. Sealover.
Re: [MBZ] 95 E300D rear
Hi Jay, 1) The wire is probably for the ABS sensor on the pinion shaft. 2) There are only two different rears, both are 2.87:1 ratio, but one is limited-slip (ASD) and the other is not. If you car has ASD you need to use special Mercedes fluid. If it's not, you can use Mobil-1 or any other correct weight/rating gear oil. If you have a 'warning triangle' in the middle of your speedometer, above the odometer, the car has ASD. :-) -dm -- Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:48:21 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] 95 E300D rear Two questions. 1- What is the wire for that connects to the drivers side of my rear diff? 2- My owners manual shows 3 different rears and they all use different fluid. How can I tell which one I have? Thank you, Jay 95 MB E300D 92K The new baby
Re: [MBZ] Turned up fuel on OM603, sans IC or WI
I don't have any camera that will capture video yet. Don't worry, when I get one, there will be lots of video added to my website, lol! :-) -dm -- Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:17:02 -0400 From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turned up fuel on OM603, sans IC or WI Dave, Do you have a digital camera that can take short videos (30 seconds)? If so, there is a perfect co-pilot -just set the camera up so it can see the speedometer and EGT. And you can share the run with fellow listers too :) Andy P.S. If you don't have a camera that can do this, here is the perfect excuse!
Re: [MBZ] Turned up fuel on OM603, sans IC or WI
Andrew, I don't have any data on the rate of increase, as it's simply too hard to capture. All I can do is note the start and end temps on a zero-to-whatever WOT run, either time or distance. If I had a second person who could watch the gauge and write down data during the run that might work, but I don't have the free time at the moment. At ~100mph it's up to approx 1300F with the fuel delivery increased 0.5 turns. About peak temps, you should read my post here: http://buymbparts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395 What I'd add to that is I would be comfortable running up to 1300F but I would probably back off at 1350F, and I'd prefer under 1300F for extended periods. Even without WI or IC, I almost never see anything close to these numbers in normal driving. About the boost controller, I think that may be overengineering things a little. There's no advantage to extra boost with a cooler engine, etc. I make the same power with 12psi that I make with 17psi and so far I can't see ANY advantage to running higher boost pressure than is needed to make peak power. It would just increase backpressure pre-turbo and subsequently increase EGT's. Now if we're talking about replacing the stock turbo with something different, that's another story (and much more complicated.) What I *would* be interested in some type of thermocouple safety switch, that would kill the ALDA signal line if EGT's exceeded 1400F or so. That would be nice for a little peace of mind on a 'tweaked' motor. On a side note, it's my current belief/theory that Mercedes installed the overboost circuit NOT because the pump can deliver more fuel than needed for factory power specs (it can't), but because if the wastegate jams closed and boost goes to 18+psi, the EGT's could get beyond safe levels and cause damage. I'm not sure Marshall would agree, and I don't have any proof at the moment, but it's something to kick around in the ol' noggin. Note that later (1990+?) OM60x engines deleted this circuit but I think they simply had other computer controls doing the same thing, just in a different way. :-) Best regards, Dave M. Boise, ID -- Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 20:38:28 -0400 From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turned up fuel on OM603, sans IC or WI Dave, I was looking for the rate of increase during the run not just the end points. Within a typical (current config no WI) 0-100mph run how many seconds does it take to get to 900, 1000, 1100, 1200 ack 1300? The other thing that I was wondering was how long (seconds/minutes?) would you be confortable running at 1200F? If you could run WOT for a minute, what would you consider your max temp? The reason why I am asking is I am designing a boost controller with an EGT Type-K feedback. This would allow more useable boost (maybe 16psi+) earlier when the engine is cooler and slowly reduce (down to maybe 10-11 as needed) the boost to prevent EGTs from going too high. You keep the pedal to the metal, as temps increase the boost drops which also reduces exhaust back pressure. I have a few complete designs that I am considering. I am at the beginning design stage of an injection pump controller that adjusts the pressure signal to the ALDA. The basic concept is to adjust the fuel delivery based on the intake temperature and pressure. I don't have all the pieces or figured out how it will all connect yet, but I am learning how to program a microcontroller to handle the adjustment. Charge density should be proportional to the absolute pressure / absolute temperature. Typical charge density is around 0.05 psia / K with no turbo and maybe up to 0.10 psia / K with an intercooler. NOTE: the EGR must be disabled for this to calculation to determine how much air you have to burn. At a given charge density, there should be an ALDA pressure that corresponds to a near perfect match for the fuel. This way, when you floor it you will have exactly the fuel you can use based on how much air you have to burn. The trick will be to use a 10 point calibration curve from no turbo all the way up to full boost. One thing that I haven't confirmed yet is: On a given 617 injection pump, the pump squirt/rev is independant on the actual rpm. i.e. if the throttle position and ALDA pressure is the same at 1000 rpm as 4000 rpm, will each rev of the engine will inject the same amount of fuel? Anyone know if that is the case? Thanks, Andy
[MBZ] Anyone have cans of R-12 for sale?
Hi all, If anyone has 1 or 2 cans of R-12 they wouldn't mind selling, please let me know off-list - thanks!!! As an update to my A/C question last week, I plugged in my gauges on my buddies' 300E yesterday. There was 15psi in the system, less than I'd like, but not totally dead. We decided to gamble on putting a pound of R-12 in the system. I put in about 12oz, and the system started working on its own, no need to short the low-pressure switch. It was blowing cooler air out the ducts, too. He has the old 'green' fan switch and high side pressures were getting to 250psi and climbing (doesn't trigger until 300psi), when disaster struck. My old gauge/hose set decided to spring a dozen pinhole leaks on the high side hose and spray a cloud of you-know-what. I unscrewed the fitting as fast as I could, I'm sure we didn't lose much, but I had no other hoses so our experimenting was done for the day. Anyway, it looked promising, as the system was working and might be OK if just charged up. He's back home now and I may not see him again for a few weeks/months. He's got an R-12 can tap, but no cans of R-12. I think 1 or 2 cans should do the trick to get cold air again (system spec is 2.4 lbs). :-) -- Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 256kmi (Sportline)
Re: [MBZ] Turned up fuel on OM603, sans IC or WI
Andrew, I think I had that info in the forum post (linked to in my original message). Anyway in stock form, at the end of the 1/4 mile the EGT's were usually 1000F. With it turned up, they now hit 1100F. I did some testing to 100mph and the temp gets to 1200-1300F by then. I now have the water injection kit in-hand but haven't had time to install it. :) +dm -- Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:56:09 -0400 From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turned up fuel on OM603, sans IC or WI Dave, I was wondering how quickly the EGTs increase during your typical 1/4 mile runs. I think you said you can do it in around 17 seconds. I know this won't be exact, but would you be willing to estimate the EGTs during the run, ie how long until 900, 1000, 1100, 1200 ack 1300 :) I put something together that might help your EGT temperatures, but I'd like to see what the timeframes are first. Thanks, Andy
RE: [MBZ] What to use as test refrigerant on R-12 system
Hi Tom, Thanks for the reply. He bought the car last fall and the AC didn't work then - don't know when it was last functioning. The car is on its way to my house tonight, I should be able to put gauges on it and see what's going on. If there's more than a few PSI in the system, we may gamble on feeding it a pound or two of R-12 and hoping for the best... :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 19:17:02 -0500 From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [MBZ] What to use as test refrigerant on R-12 system There is nothing that will mix will work as a refrigerant. Based on your tests, I'd say that your friend's system is low. There is no way of knowing how fast R12 will leak out without dumping a can in. One good sign is that fact that he has some refrigerant in his system. Has his AC been down for a while? More than a month? If so than he does not have a major leak and it's safe to dump in a can. If he had a major leak then you would not have any charge left by now. Thanks, Tom Hargrave
Re: [MBZ] did they put magic pixie dust in the R134 this year?
Kaleb, My W123 with R-134a conversion would also generate 38F (approx) duct temps with 85-90F ambients, especially with the car rolling at 35mph or more. At idle or not moving the temps are higher. And at high ambients (100F+ with low humidity) it's not very good even at freeway speeds. But, yeah, 38F is possible. Where R-12 (or AutoFrost) shines - at least compared to R-134a - is when you're in stop+go traffic and/or it's really REALLY hot outside. :) -dm -- Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:40:22 -0500 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] did they put magic pixie dust in the R134 this year? Charged my SDL up with 134 instead of duracool after compressor swap this year, it cools down to the 40's. Just put a used compressor on my 85 300D and converted it to 134, it drops down to 38, YES THIRTYEIGHT degrees vent temp with 85-90 outside temp. I dont think I have ever seen 134 do that before.
Re: [MBZ] 124 instrument cluster removal/tripmeter repair
Heh-heh... I went deeper into a spare/junk 300E unit back when I had the squealing problem on the gasser. I tore it all apart, but I had ZERO confidence that it would be functional when I was done, not to mention anywhere close to accurate. I'm pretty sure that it's best left to the experts. However, the white-face gauge overlays are pretty popular, and those require needle removal to install. Hmmm. Someday I intend to tear down the spare unit again, and this time take photos of what's inside. On my previous attempt I didn't have time (and I didn't think about it until it was mostly re-assembled - ooops.) :-) -dm -- Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:31:34 -0700 From: Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] 124 instrument cluster removal/tripmeter repair It's pretty clear from looking at the thing that meaningful access must be thru the front. I've tried tugging on the dial as hard as I dare to no effect except that the black disk that covers the center popped off easily enough; it was just glued on lightly. Not really visible in the 3rd pic, there's a small hole in the center of the hub directly above the shaft, leading me to think maybe a tiny puller might be needed to remove the dial w/o damage to the inner workings. Hard to believe nobody's gone any deeper into one of these things lived to tell about it. joe
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Kevin, There isn't really any alignment needed on the tensioner seal. More likely (?) you had the wrong one. There is an early tensioner and a late/improved tensioner. The newer one requires a larger aluminum O-ring seal. If you put a small O-ring on a newer/larger tensioner, it would get all boogered up. The O-ring should fit neatly on the tensioner seat. Something to consider, anyway. This is documented in the FSM somewhere. My white and blue cars had different tensioners, that's how I discovered this little tidbit... another 'gotcha' to add to your list! :-) -Dave M. -- Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:53:54 -0700 From: Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty recently... K
[MBZ] W124 headlights wanted
Hello, A friend of mine has screwed up headlights on his 1987 W124. The left side needs the bezel (plastic fog light lens) and the right side needs the glass headlight lens/globe assembly. Probably easier to just get two whole used headlights, or at least a right (passenger) side since that one is collecting water inside under the bulb (d'oh). The wipers are NOT needed, btw. I checked some salvage yards and their pricing isn't all that attractive - roughly 2/3 as much as new TYC/Depo brand Euro lights. He's on a tight budget and was hoping for something cheaper. They don't need to be mint, just unbroken! Anyone have some for sale cheap? If so, please email me privately off-list... Thanks! :-) Dave M. Boise, ID PS: Now I wish I hadn't sold the old ones off my white diesel for ~$25 to a list member last year! D'OH!
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
The 1987 300D/TD buyer's guide is also posted as a plain text file at this link: http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/124.1x3_buying_tips.txt :-) -dm == If you've got rusted jack points, Jeff, I'd wager a tidy sum that a little probing of the underbody panels with a screwdriver will reveal a goodly number of places where the undercoating has lost its sheetmetal backing. Pull the plastic panels in the front wheel wells and you'll find more. On second thought, don't; you don't really want to know. Spud did the latest 124 buying guide revision, but unless he or someone else who's squirreled a copy away can send it along, accessing that'll have to await the resurrection of the articles at mbz.org. joe On 7/3/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shipmates, I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to get smart on what the weak spots are. According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time? How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator? How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can I look at to determine the general state of repair? Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated.
[MBZ] OM603 power gain with water injection
HI all, I started a new thread for the water injection project. Click the link below for the complete story: http://buymbparts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475 Dragstrip testing last night showed approx 0.3-0.5 second improvement with 0.5 turns on the pump and no WI or IC, but EGT's were up (as expected). My best run was a 16.9 (!!) despite hitting the brakes at the line in an attempt to not break out of my dial-in. It probably would have been a 16.8 otherwise. In stock form my best ever was a fluke 17.34, with typical numbers more like 17.5-17.6 (it never ran slower than 17.9 though). Last night my slowest run was 17.48 in 95F heat and a headwind - and a FULL TANK of fuel! I'm hoping to get the WI installed before my next races on July-22. I'm not sure if I'll get the pump maxed out before that or not - we'll see. I'm pretty stoked to finally get MEASUREABLE, repeatable performance gains! :-) Dave M. Boise, ID
Re: [MBZ] OM603 oil pressure question
Marshall, Joe, et al: Thanks for the quick replies. I figured the sending unit would be the place to attach a manual gauge, but I thought there would be a procedure in the FSM with more specs than the awfully vague TDM numbers. If my car would barely hit 3 bar by 3k, I'd say the motor would be junk in short order. My car idles at 1.75-2.0 hot and pegs almost anywhere off idle. Symptoms were 0.5 bar indicated at idle, then increasing to 3bar as you drove off, but then dropping to zero! My BIL had it checked out today, and got lucky. First it was just a bad sending unit (whew!) and second the local parts place (dealer?) had a new one on the shelf. It's already fixed and back on the road! I was surprised myself at the quick TAT, since he just called me this AM asking how to diagnose it. I was about to have them pull the filter and check the stuff Marshall mentioned. This car gets M-1 or D-1, btw. :-) Thanks again, Dave M. -- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:10:20 -0700 From: Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 oil pressure question 18.4-1101a indicates the pressure sensor is at the base of the filter housing; that'd seem to be an appropriate place if you want to hook up a test gauge. TDM indicates that pressure may drop to .3bar at idle and should be at least 3bar at 3Krpm. 18.1-1101a deals w/ the oil pressure relief valve on the pump and indicates that control cuts in at 5.8bar. I'm wisless at the moment but it might just be worth a peek. Symptoms? j -- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:18:34 -0400 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 oil pressure question There are NO published specs I've ever seen beyond the must be greater than 0.3 bar at idle and at least 3 bar at 3000 rpm. Those numbers are low (but safe). The most common failing is the is of the O rings on the stem. They will result in low idle pressures (but usually still above the min) and some lifter clatter. If the grommet inside the oil filter is disp[laced when the filter is installed, pressure will read even lower than if the O rings are bad. Most (75+%) of the pressure problems I've seen reported are caused by one of those being the problems. If the relief valves (they open in the 5-6 bar range) fail open, pressure will not peg when it should at engine speeds in the 2500-3000 rpm range. There's one in the filter housing (but I've never hear of it failing) and one at the oil pump (I know of half a dozen or more of them failing - all on older OM61x or OM621 engines). Finally the pump CAN fail and then usually both hot idle pressure AND mid rang rmp pressure are both low or nil. Marshall
[MBZ] OM603 oil pressure question
Hi all, Can anyone point me to the section in the service manual that shows oil pressure specs, and/or a testing procedure, for the OM603 (1987 300D)? Meaning where to connect a manual pressure gauge and what numbers to look for at a certain RPM, etc? My sister's car has started to indicate abnormal pressures and I want to send them some info, but for the life of me I can't find it on the CD-ROM. Any tips would be appreciated... thanks! :-) -Dave M.
[MBZ] Turned up fuel on OM603, sans IC or WI
Hi all, I finally fiddled with the full load fuel delivery (and max RPM) on my injection pump this afternoon. Details are here: http://buymbparts.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2262posted=1#post2262 Short version is that it worked OK, there's more power, but EGT's increase too much with extended full throttle. At the moment I have no intercooler (IC) or water injection (WI). Although I would greatly prefer an IC setup, I don't have the time, money, or parts required to complete this anytime soon. Maybe next year, if I can find the prerequisite AMG bumper needed to swallow the IC. I'm planning on trying out a WI kit as soon as possible, maybe the one on eBay linked to in the post above. Theoretically that should allow a full 1.5-1.75 turns of the full load screw, providing the same ~20% power gain that Casey is seeing on his intercooled 603, with the same low EGT's. I will have dragstrip data this Friday on how much quicker the car is. I believe I will be able to do 1/4 mile runs at WOT without getting into the danger zone (1300F+) but I'll be watching the EGT's closely! :-) Best regards, Dave M. Boise, ID
[MBZ] There's one born every minute
Some maroon actually did pay the $12.5k Buy It Now price: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=4556974801 It's a W123, fer cryin' out loud... **shakes head** -dm
