Re: Clip: Old 97s from Allstar
So the new Old 97s record has a lot of hooks, pop or otherwise. I'll confess that's what hooked me in the first place, on Wreck Your Life and Hitchhike to Rhome. Rhett's got a knack for writing these infectious tunes, with smart, witty, generally good-humored wordplay, and then singing them using the same assets. And while there were some very good tunes on the third record, to me at least, his writing lost some of its sunny cleverness. I know "sunnyness" and "good-natured" aren't generally positive things to say about a band, but, somehow, with "early" Old 97s, it was refreshing, endearing and just different. The frequently unhappy or dark topics just add to the creative dissonance. Anyhow, I'm hoping "Fight Songs" has some of that fresh innocence fueling its pop hooks, because I like this band a lot. Yeah, yeah, some of you with large memories will be remembering when I criticized Chet Atkins' production of Bobby Bare's 60s stuff, because of the dissonance between the "smooth" production and the grittier vocals and subject matter. Um, that's different. -- Terry Smith
Re: roadtrip ideas
If your going do that come through Gallup first and visit historic Route 66 and the El Rancho Hotel, Home of the Moviestars and neon and say hey, then head north on 666 through the Navajo nation, Chaco Canyon, Shiprock then turn left through 4 corners up to To-hell-u-ride. Skip Telluride; it's just a bunch of 7-foot-tall, nordic-looking (no offense, Tom) Trust-Fund doofusses, with hip sunglasses and carrying mountainbikes on their backs. Beer $3 or $4 a pop. Lavender shacks that go for a mill. Forget about it. Instead, from Cortez, my former abode, go through Mancos (a beautiful little town in the shadow of the La Plata Mtns.), and hit Durango, which while touristy, at least has some real people living there. Then go north to Silverton and Ouray. After that, you're on your own, unless you want to be adventurous, and check out Central Idaho, which is just as pretty as anywhere in western Montana, and also has fewer egotistical movie stars and more secluded hot springs. -- Terry Smith np The Best of Guitar Slim on Specialty Records. Rough guitar player, but he could sing, and with Mr. Ray Charles hitting the ivories and arranging, well, I gotta say...
Re: Nanci Griffith info
Any one out there a Nanci Griffith buff? I'm fixing to interview her this week and need to do my homework. Most of the bio stuff found online tends to be outdated at this point. I thought I heard that she was retiring from the road soon. Is that on track? Neal Weiss In the 80s, I loved her stuff; then, with the exception of those records where she covered all those classic folk songs with the best in the business, her stuff got sort of precious, or over-ambitious, or I don't know what. But I don't like her much now. I'm curious as to whether she changed what she was doing around 1990, give or take, or whether I just imagined the whole thing. She did write some wonderful road and relative tunes, though, not unlike some of Lucinda's real personal songs. -- Terry Smith
Re: Most albums sold, per RIAA
Jon: As far as the lowest common denominator argument goes, I'm not sure what to make of it. The Beatles have sold about 20% more albums; does that mean they made music for a 20% lower common denominator? (I suspect there are a few folks who will answer "yes".) Out of the top 25 on that best-selling etc. Hitching the popularity of music to some sort of inverse proportion, whereby more records sold equals dwindling quality is one of those equations that has too damn many exceptions to be very useful. But I think that if you state it this way -- "Just because something sells like hotcakes doesn't mean it's any good" -- then you're on more solid ground. And if you then explore the reasons why marketing and hype, and good ol' arbitrary taste, can catapult an OK product to mass popularity -- anything from Beanie Babies to Shania to the latest Keanu Reeves movie -- you can make some sense of it. I don't know how many times I've had the following discussion with my two girls, as they're watching MTV: Eloquent dad: Man, that sucks. Oldest daughter: Yeah, if it sucks so bad, why is it the top-selling record in the country? Dad: Well, honey, you have to understand the power of marketing. When they pour millions of dollars... Hey, where you going? -- Terry Smith
The Gourds and who?
The other day I was checking out the Austin Chronicle's web-site, and they mentioned that the Gourds were making a record, backing up somebody relatively well-known in alt.country/country circles. And the identity of that person has completely slipped my mind; all I can recall is that it seemed to be a surprising pairing. Anybody know? -- Terry Smith, who realizes that this has probably been mentioned on the list, but can't be held accountable for remembering every damn thing
Re: The Gourds and who?
Doug Sahm, I think By cracky, that's it. Sounds like a very interesting pairing; I wonder what the material's going to be. -- Terry
Re: Updates
You know, this sort of musical Gresham's Law -- that bad music represents a threat to the good -- has been discussed here before (we talked about it in relationship to Split Lip Rayfield, if I recall), and I still just don't buy it. "Boy if weren't for those damn Moonshine Cousinfuckers (insert ... This kind of thinking smacks of an elitism that I can't tolerate -- as if the "sucky" bands are doing something they shouldn't be allowed to do, or are actually harming the bands a certain cogniscenti deem to be "real" (read, band with chops, bands that are sincere, bands that write "good" songs, etc. ) If you think a band sucks, fine, but don't blame them for turning off audiences from stuff you happen to like better. Todd Why not blame them, if that's what they're doing? And there's a big difference between criticizing someone for art that's been thrust into the public right-of-way, and saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it. I don't even know whom we're talking about. -- Terry Smith
Re: Updates
Another angle on this deal -- and I'll be short because all this talk about Malaysian food is making me hungry -- is the boy who cried wolf phenomenon. With a lot of these crappy alt.country bands -- fill in the blanks -- there's an inverse proportion between all the self-generated hype and the actual talent and inspiration therein. So if you go see a band, or pick up their record, based on, for instance, overheated praise that appears in their press material, or their ad in ND, and the band's not very good, you're likely to react even more negatively than if there'd been no hype to start with. I can't count the times that I've gotten excited about hearing a record, based on overblown bullshit spewed forth by the label or the band, and then listen, and think, Jesus, they play OK for having just stumbled upon their instruments four or five days ago. -- Terry Smith
Re: Mandy B/Don't Forget
OK folks. This turns out to be too easy! "Don't Forget to Cry" was a May '64 single recorded for WB by those obscure singers of Bryants' songs, the Everly Brothers. It's readily available on the 2-disc Walk Right Back Warner Brothers Best of... Glad to be of assistance. Barry M. Geez, you all didn't know that? That's common knowledge. OK, I'm jerking your chains, but I was curious about that tune, "Trademark," again on the Mandy Barnett record. Jon identified it with some country artist, I can't recall who, but the co-writer is listed as Porter Wagoner (sp?). Did Porter write it, and someone else make a hit out of it? Also, I can't get over how, to me, two of the best tunes on the record, "Who (Who Will It Be)" and "The Whispering Wind (Blows on By)" are relatively new songs, apparently, but seem to come straight from the lush, big-band pop past. Does anyone have a handle on the writers, Russell Brown and Pat McLaughlin? Great songs, and the only defect is that tendency to put bothersome parentheticals in the song titles. -- Terry Smith
SCOTS
Just wanted Roy to feel at home. Welcome back, buster. -- Terry Smith
Re: Mandy B
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: pps it's been a great week; discovered via the library, Solomon Burke and Lloyd Price. How'd I ripen into my 40s without having heard these guys? Mysteries of life. Then Don: Yeah, right -- it's 'cuz you live in that cultural backwater known as the American Midwest.--don (who coincidentally played Solomon Burke on the Roadhouse last night) Don't mean to quibble, but I don't live in the Midwest. Southeastern Ohio, where Athens is located, is about as Appalachian as you can get, both culturally and geographically (there's about one cubic foot of flat space in our whole county). We're un-glaciated, and proud of it! -- Terry Smith ps man, we're getting a lot of mileage out of this "Mandy B." thread, aren't we? But I did want to ask, seriously, which tunes on her new record are the classics and which are the newly written ones. As other folks have mentioned, Owen Bradley, who apparently had a lot to do with the song selection, couldn't have done a better job, and the old ones blend with the new ones seamlessly. I've got to say, though, I like "Who (who will it be)" the best. Is that an old tune?
Re: Mandy B
Dammit, you all aren't allowed to have this country radio/Nashville fracas without me. If there's gonna be any geographical knee-jerking -- what an image! -- around here, then I'm gonna do it! -- Terry Smith ps seriously, I'm holding out hope that Mandy Barnett's record will chart on country radio. Hell, it just came out. I'm curious, too, to see whether all the recent hubbub about big band and swing might translate into heightened interest for a big sound record like Mandy's. pps it's been a great week; discovered via the library, Solomon Burke and Lloyd Price. How'd I ripen into my 40s without having heard these guys? Mysteries of life. ppps Made a mistake the other night, and threw on Hadacol right after introducing myself to Mandy Barnett's new one. It wasn't fair to Hadocol, and I wound up taking it off after a few songs. I'll have to give it another chance.
Re: Mandy B
Two observations about this Jim vs. Don and Jon debate (a side issue: when the hell do we get Don vs. Jon?). Anyhow, first thing, aren't a lot of the sensitive ballad weiners coming out of Nashville not doing that well either? So it's evidently not just material that's "too country" that's having a difficult time, though I'm hoping the programmers will notice that and quit playing so much of that mild crap. I mean, which comes first, lousy record sales and then radio play falls off, or the other way around? Second thing, I'm not convinced by Don and Jon's example of Vince Gill's "The Key." It's one record, and I think we need some more examples. There's other factors that may have contributed to its lack of success (incidentally, a "lack of success" that very many performers in and out of Nashville envy greatly). But basically, until you've provided some more examples, you're vulnerable to the "exception that proves the rule" argument. -- Terry Smith, a normal music fan
Mandy B
Finally snagged Mandy Barnett's new record, "I've Got a Right to Cry," and haven't had so much fun listening to a record in a long time. Don's right; this is the best of the year (that I've heard). I also prematurely nominate Harold Bradley's electric guitar solo on "Who (Who Will It Be)" as the best guitar solo of the year, so far. Inventive, confident, understated, perfect for this wonderful song. This record has everything, from Barnett's perfect-fit vocals (the stretched out notes on "Who..." made me grin), to a great assortment of pop and country songs, with so many poppy hooks that it nearly ripped my earlobes. My question -- are "hooks" universal, or do they not transfer across genres? In other words, if the answer to that question is, "yes, hooks are hooks," how come a record like this one, chock full of irresistable melodic turns, doesn't automatically find its way onto radio playlists. I'm sure there's an easy answer, though I hope it's more complicated than "commercial radio programmers are all assholes." Again, though, I can't say enough about this record. Thanks all for the recommendation. -- Terry Smith ps And I didn't even mention the production -- but I will now. Owen Bradley gets a lot of the praise for this record, though he produced a third of the songs. He deserves it, because I'm sure his spirit infused the whole project. But I also think that his kid brother, Harold, and co-producers Bobby Bradley and Barnett deserve raves. The production is creative, inventive, confident and perfect for these songs. And Emmons and the other players show, conclusively why they're some of the best session players who ever lived.
Re: David Allen Coe
Query: What is the song David Allen Coe is most knows for? Thank you. JNS Steve Goodman's song "You Never Called Me By My Name" -- or some similar combinations of words. He also wrote Tanya Tucker's early hit, "Would You Lay with Me (in a Field of Stone)" and Johnny Paycheck's hit, "Take This Job and Shove It." Other than that, he's basically a big -- aw, never mind, my mama always said if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. -- terry smith
Re: Remember, its Denver
I lived in Denver when I was a little kid -- near downtown on Grape Street -- and, man, it was a cooler than hell place to live at that time (1958-62). Great Mexican food, "Our Gang" style gang wars with the kids down the alley, plenty of lick em aide, fireworks galore if your older brothers would agree to ride their bikes to the "city limits," and the biggest sandbox in the world, across the street at the Herrera's. -- Terry Smith ps watched the Johnny Cash tribute last night; once again realized what a great man and musician Cash was and is. Couldn't make heads nor tails of Dylan's mailed-in performance, though I appreciated the gesture. pps switched to CMT late Saturday, and discovered an hour-long program they have where the videos are all alt.country and/or Southern-style rock, with country influences. eg Emmy Lou and Buddy Miller on "Love Hurts," the Georgia Satellites, Billy Burnette, etc. What a find.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
get to you, you might not be long for this list. This is just a typical day in the life of P2. And just wait til we rehash one of those recipe threads or my particular favorite: the greatest pitcher ever, which, of course, would Sandy Koufax, the Bob Dylan of his profession. Neal Weiss Hmmm, and let me guess who's the best base-stealer ever. Maury Wills, c'mon down. In all this palaver over greatest influences, etc., I guess I confess surprise that what, to me, is an obvious choice for at least the top five, The Beatles, appears to have been skipped over, perhaps, dare I speculate, because it's such an obvious choice? If we're talking about rock, in my subjective, fallible, hazy-assed estimation, the Beatles have no rival. -- Terry Smith ps my local library just got stocked up on a bunch of classic pop and soul, 50s era, plus a copy of Johnny Cash, Live at Folsom and San Quentin. Jackie Wilson, Lloyd Price, Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, all sorts of stuff to explore.
Re: Kiss Kiss Hug Hug
Neal tells why he probably won't make it to Twangfest III: Unfortunately, this Weiss traveling to St. Louis is not looking bloody likely. Was just forced to buy a car (ah the joys of some fucking idiot making an illegal left and destroying me beloved, *paid off* Subaru wagon) and am about to plunk down several hundred bucks, maybe even four figures to get trees trimmed on the north 40 of the compound. (Ah, The joys of homeownership.) Plus, the big trip for me and my better half is to the UK ... Don't be distressed. I'm not gonna be there either, so it's really not worth going to this time around g. But what I really wanted to suggest is get PGE, or whoever turns on your lights, to trim the damn trees. And if there aren't any power lines near 'em, go out on some dark night and move the power lines closer to the trees. See, that's not hard. -- Terry Smith np Danny Gatton's "Redneck Jazz." (I've got a third generation dub of this record, so the sound's not so hot, so I'm hoping I'll be excused for being confused over whether Gatton's guitar actually sort of sounds like a jazz organ, or whether he's got Jimmy Smith sitting in with him. I'm assuming it's the former, which wouldn't make me a complete blinking idiot for contemplating the latter.)
Re: Lessons Learned
Matt Benz wrote: And guess who just got one of the few original copies of the Texas Declaration on Independence? We demand it back at once. -- [Matt Benz] Sorry, no can do. Tell ya what tho: we can ship you busloads of starry-eyed roots rockers, pot smoking dunderheads and a couple 1000 slack-asses. Isn't Austin a haven of some sort, for the indigent musician? And, Joe G., we in Ohio also have a legislature whose incompetence and hidebound conservatism would make Molly Ivins reconsider her conclusions about the Texas legislature being the biggest assortment of dumbasses in America. We'll trade you, ours for yours, straight up. -- Terry Smith np George Barnes and Joe Venuti -- man, now that I've got a cassette in the car, exploring old, dusty tapes is great fun. And thanks, Jon, for the word up about the Danny Gatton tape. I listened some more and realized that Leslie effect on his guitar only appeared in one or two tunes -- on some of the others they actually had a pianist, and a steel player (Emmons?). Ha, I did it again g.
Re: music on cable tv
The bluegrass segment of the bifurcated "American Originals" station, which itself is one of 31 stations on "Music Choice," is pretty impressive, with a nice mix of classic bluegrass and newgrass, or whatever it's called these days. The Big Band and Blues stations also delve into both obscurities and more classic type stuff. Haven't checked out the "progressive" and "alternative rock" stations yet, and am not sure what's the difference. As for the classic country station, I tuned in last night, and as David Cantwell had mentioned, did catch a really nice flow of great tunes, including Del Reeves (Southern Belles of Southern Bell), Buck Owens (Waiting in Your Welfare Line), Merle (Fightin' Side of Me), Patsy Cline (San Antonio Rose), Gene Watson (You're out there doin what I'd like to be doin at home, or something along those lines), and more, until I had to make the switch to AE's incredible mini-series based on C.S. Forester's Hornblower books. -- Terry Smith np Doug Sahm's "Jukebox Music."
Re: Music Choice
I recently mentioned that Sherry Boyd was going to be doing the Bluegrass section of Music Choice. Well, I also just found out that Jenni Sperandeo will be putting together the Americana channel. This is shaping up to be a pretty cool outlet for twangy music. Don't expect any topten lists from Jenni in April, though! :^) Steve, my Music Choice doesn't have an Americana channel -- is that something new? -- Terry Smith (who's anxiously awaiting a visit from Mandy Barnett(her record) while watching his mono-stricken 9-year-old. Man, mono's a bitch, ain't it?)
Re: Time for a crackdown
Hey, Don, since you're the listmeister, I thought I'd direct this little complaint your way... That pesky Terry Smith has been sticking all kinds of non-twang-related stuff in PS's to his ostensibly twang posts; he's been doing it for years, and I'm sick and tired of it. I think you oughta drop him a note at least, but it would probably be better to just unsub him from Narc. -- TS I mean, narc g -- TS np I gave the cable 31-channel music channel's "Classic Country" station another try, and what did I get? Merle's "The Bottle Let Me Down." And then downhill from there, with Sylvia, Alabama, Steve Wariner, Lee Greenwood, etc. Switched to the Big Band station, and got Benny Goodman, Woody Herman, Duke Ellington, Dorsey/Sinatra. I'm thinking the best of country, vintage 70s and 80s, doesn't hold a candle to the best of Big Band, 40s, early 50s. Unfair comparison, I know.
Re: Wilco's new horizon
So how's that new Wilco record? Couldn't resist. Anyhow, I haven't heard it, but there's a formula that I understand applies to this record, and establishes, in my mind, whether it's any damn good. It goes like this: "Summerteeth" = ELO. And since ELO = Crappy, pretentious, classical rock, therego "Summerteeth" = Crappy, pretentious classical rock. Or maybe it's called art rock. I forget. And Jerry, I will be checking my mailbox for letter bombs, so don't try anything! -- Terry Smith ps just saw "American History X" last night. Great film -- does anyone else think Edward Norton's the best young actor today? You can answer this question in a p.s. attached to a twang-oriented post, just so we don't get busted. I've been doing this for years, and never got caught once.
Shania and music on cable tv
Two things: Watched a bio on Shania on VH-1, and I'll confess some embarrassment at demonizing the gal -- holding her out as an example of all that's rotten about commercial country. She seems like a fairly straightforward working-class girl, who parlayed (to my ears, at least) modest talent into superstar status. I still don't like her music very much, but if I'm gonna play the blame game, then it belongs with the usual culprit, the triumph of marketing over substance, or the other usual culprit, there's no accounting for taste, mine or yours. I finally snagged that cable TV music service, where you get 31 different musical genre selections. I wanted it mainly to have access to "classic country." But lo and behold, classic country these days isn't what it used to be (since the word "classic" in terms of music changes over time). Anyhow, during the half-hour I was listening, the station played such classics as 80s vintage Oak Ridge Boys, Gary Morris, Ronny McDowell, and Alabama. So my dreams of a station that only plays Tammy, George, Buck, Loretta, Merle -- or Hank, Ray, Johnny, and Hank -- went up in smoke. I switched to the blues station, which was just dandy. -- Terry Smith
Re: Chrissie Hynde in Salon
And Chrissie's a Cuyahoga Falls gal -- and longtime Cleveland Indians fan -- factors that should be considered in her favor! -- Terry Smith, who grew up in adjacent Stow, Ohio ps go tribe -- World Series 99
Re: Good covers (was: Kelly Willis calling the shots)
This covers thread raised a question for me -- what's it called when an artist -- I'm thinking of Dave Alvin, specifically -- "covers" a tune that he wrote for a band that he played in, but didn't sing, and covers it in a wildly different (and better, in Alvin's case) fashion? Border Radio, Romeo's whatever, a few others. I'll try to think of some other artists who did this sort of thing. -- Terry Smith ps so when's mandy barnett's new one coming out?
Re: Roger Miller Box Set (was: Drake...)
Ok, so I'm Roger Miller-less and I've been meaning to correct that -- where's the best place to start? Thanks, Dave Get the boxed set. From my standpoint, as a fearless warrior against all production that exceeds five guys standing (or sitting) around amplifiers (or not) -- ok, overdubbing is OK -- anyhow, from my standpoint, his material is consistently good, often great. I think the weaker stuff is his very early material, which may have been pretty basic from the production standpoint (if I remember correctly). But the songs are so strong, and his delivery likewise, that the old production thing just doesn't enter into the equation, for me at least. And some of Roger's most classic stuff, the "Dang Me" sessions, really were just four or five guys playing more or less live. This boxed set was a revelation for me, and I think I better pull it out again, just to make sure I haven't made any agregious blunders, or however you spell it. -- Terry Smith ps I just read that over, and editing's a bitch with this program, so let me rephrase it here -- Miller's arrangements never get in the way of the strong singing and songwriting. And some of those ballads grab you by your heart and just wring it floppy. egregious? aggregateious?
Wal-mart and recorxs
records, I mean. The college town where I live -- isolated in SE Ohio -- is in a tizzy because the university is poised to let Wal-Mart be an anchor store in a new retail complex on university land (OU). Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone has any insights into how Wal-Mart affects the mom and pop stores in a small town, including record, music and book stores. I know what the conventional wisdom is -- that Wal-Mart comes in like Genghis Khan (and unlike NATO, so far) and just decimates all the little guys, but Athens, Ohio is a little different, in that a lot of folks already leave town to shop elsewhere. Anyhow, any insights from you worldly folks would be appreciated. -- Terry Smith
Big Labels Dropping Bands
USA Today had a story on its Life section cover today, "Big Busines Means Discord for Small Bands," which goes into the Universal Music Group merger with PolyGram Entertainment, and what it means for big label rosters. The article said Universal is trimming its roster, to "sell more records by focusing marketing, promotion and publicity efforts on fewer artists... As many as 400 to 500 bands may face the blade over the next few months..." It goes on to say that sturdy indies might benefit by getting a lot of the big-label castoffs, and also that other big labels might be following Universal's example. Anyhow, maybe somebody can post this to the list, since it has a lot of relevance to that article Neal posted yesterday. -- Terry Smith ps so who's been dissing Bocephus? I'm with the folks who remember how vital old Hank Jr. was in the old days, putting out a series of hard-country records that still hold up today. Hell, I even like listening to him sing the Monday Night Football song. You just gotta ignore his bombast occasionally (or more than occasionally in the last decade or so). pps Don's got my mouth watering over Mandy Barnett (sp?) new record. I'd take Owen Bradley over Chet any day of the week.
Re: suckage: Re: Waco Brothers
Me: The reflex to say so and so "sucks" is always so much more tempting than settling for saying, "that's not my cup of tea." -- Terry Smith Jeff Wall: I don't see the difference. If I am reviewing a disc, and I can find absolutely no redeeming value, and I say that it sucks, is that not just my humble, or in my case, not so fucking humble opinion? I think most (but not all) rap sucks. Instead should I be saying that most rap is just not my cup of tea? Me again: OK, I'll rephrase it. If all you say is that something sucks, and then you don't give any worthwhile reasons, then what you've just said ain't worth a plug nickle. But if you admit that you don't like it mainly just because, um, you just don't like it, then that at least acknowledges that your judgment may have more to do with your own biases than any flaw on the side of the music. The fact that you probably wouldn't go to the trouble to review a rap record, because you're already aware of your biases, suggests that you're all too aware that rap ain't your "cup of tea." But country is, and if you reviewed a country record that you thought sucked, you'd be able to find plenty of reasons for why it's not so hot. Does that make any damn sense? The short explanation: Sometimes a performer or band really does suck majorly, and it's easy to explain why. Sometimes, though, you just don't like that sort of music. There is a difference. Queen apparently was a great bunch of musicians, but that sort of pretentious, orchestrated, glam crap just gives me a stomach ache. That, however, is more a comment on my own biases than anything particularly wrong with the music. Maybe that's not the short explanation after all. oh yeah. Jeff, take care in the Med (or Adriatic?) -- Terry Smith
Re: your worst fears realized
At 6:28 PM -0400 on 3/31/99, Jon E. Johnson wrote: Yeah, I remember when I used to think the same thing about the Boston Globe. "The Globe? Make up stories? It'll never happen" Oh, we were innocent then! We had a song in our hearts and a spring in our step! Have any reporters made anything up, or is it limited to columnists? Bob I have a confession. As a reporter on my high school newspaper, circa 1973, I fabricated a band, The Froglegs, and their debut album, "Tastes Like Chicken," and wrote a review about them. I tried to make it as outlandish as possible, for instance, describing the music as a hypnotic mix between Yes and CCR. The next day, a guy came up to me and wondered why his record store had no knowledge of this record. I told him it was an import. He was disappointed because he thought it sounded like a great record. So, I guess I broke the mold in journalism -- I started as a cynic and wound up as an idealist. That article Neal posted was pretty amazing, and depressing. And the obvious question, for me at least, is does this picture of the music business represent a tailspin into bottom-line greed, or is it just more of the same old shit? And, if it's the former, is there a corresponding reduction in the product at the end of the assembly line? That is, of course, assuming that differences in quality do exist in music, and it's not all just equivalent mush that only takes on character when we opinionated human beings decide whether it sucks or not. -- Terry Smith ps I'll vouch for the LA Weekly, too. A good paper, which I'm hoping would double and triple-check the veracity of the reporter's tale. This thing looks so much like it could be a hoax that any responsible (and observant) editor would make absolutely certain it's not before letting it get in the paper.
Re: Waco Brothers
Anyone who writes this: the Kentucky hills of Hank Williams. doesn't have much credibility when they write this: ...the crop of bimbos and bimbettes being churned out by Nashville... If this isn't an object lesson in the trendiness of dissing mainstream country music, I don't know what is. That's Jon commenting on some joker's kneejerk comments about Nashville. Aside from raising questions about gender (is 'bimbo' masculine, or reflective of size?), those sort of comments don't in and of themselves nullify all the justifiable criticism of mainstream country music. But as usual Jon effectively points out the emptiness of much of the reflexive complaints about HNC. Lord knows, there's enought to complain about, that's easily justified, without resorting to catch-all, gratuitous insults of the "bimbette" variety. If there's three things I've learned since being on this list -- or, am still learning -- it's: don't presume consensus on suckage, with regard to a particular musical act or genre; don't pronounce suckage of the same without trotting out some valid reasons; and, finally, don't confuse differences in taste with actual justifiable criticism. The last thing has been the toughest for me -- figuring out when my dislike of some performer or musical trend is just a matter of personal taste, or, on the other hand, some flaw in the music. The reflex to say so and so "sucks" is always so much more tempting than settling for saying, "that's not my cup of tea." -- Terry Smith
Re: The Cartwrights (was: Re: Upcoming Dallas shows)
the Cartwrights' tune on the second Bloodshot sampler was my fave on that record, which is really saying something. I, too, hope they get together and put out a record that's actually obtainable out in middle america. Which raises the question - what ever happened to the Vole Beats, another one of my favorite obscure bands? I tried to score their second record and never succeeded; they must have sold out of what they had. But love that first one -- with it's subtle, but stick-with-you pop ballads. -- Terry Smith
Re: Live vs. Studio
My next statement is even more blasphemous.I'd rather listen to my studio recording of an artist than catch them live. I mean this with a "grain of salt" however. I'm a social animal and would much rather be out than sitting at home listening. To explain, I do love live music but it's more of a social/visual thing than a sound thing. Jerry Jerry, I know exactly what you mean, except I'd compare it to sports. As a longtime Cleveland Browns fan, I think there's nothing comparable to sitting in the Pound at old Cleveland Municipal Stadium, and sucking in the atmosphere (plus, of course, your choice of 12-, 16- or 32-ounce beers). It's a ball, no matter what's happening on the field. But as far as actually watching the game, give me the recliner in the family room on a Sunday afternoon (plus, of course, my choice of any goddamn size beer I choose to pour). And to really ruin this analogy, the last place you'd ever catch me would be in a stadium for a rock concert -- or country show, for that matter -- fending with 100,000 sweaty morons. I could handle it as a youth; of course, back then most of the challenge was figuring out how to score.-- Terry Smith
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
I don't have near enough time, or energy, to listen to all the "official" recordings out there, even in our funny little genre. Where do you folks find the time to not only listen to the legit stuff, but to ferret out all the boots, too? How do you find time to watch "The Simpsons" or go see a movie, or have a job, or eat food? -- Terry Smith ps I did have the time to read all the entertaining posts about SXSW -- I'm glad you all posted them, rather than shoving them over to the Wangfest list.
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
Lately, a few folks have been posting and then not putting their names on their contributions. I think it's polite -- just from the standpoint of more effective communication -- to sign your messages, so we'll know who the hell is writing them, and be able to connect the P-2er with earlier posts. I don't give a shit if the names are real; what's needed is an identifier, a label, a tag. And not signing your post results in instant deflation in value of whatever you're saying. Anonymity erodes credibility. And we promise not to laugh if your name is Ethelbert or Seymour or Eula or something like that. -- Terry Smith, whose mom's name is Eula -- a good ol' fashioned Texas name
Re: Heard it on the X
The X is about the only good thing I've ever heard about Oxford, Ohio (the home of Miami of Ohio). Of course, here at Ohio U, the motto has long been "Muck Fiami." -- Terry Smith, who got tossed out of a Miami dorm at curfew on a memorable road trip many years ago, and who's not affiliated with Ohio U, even though I've got an "ohiou.edu" address (it's a community free-net) music content: Anybody else get a kick out of Bono's intro for the Springsteen hall of fame induction?
Re: Car-Mounted Vodka Bottle
This reminds me of something a state trooper told me one time, about an old guy he stopped for driving erratically, who actually had his windshield wiper cleaner hose routed through his dashboard. He filled the reservoir up with Heaven Hill bourbon, and whenever he wanted a drink, he'd push the button, hold his dixie cup under the mouth of the hose, and get a shot. You've got to give the geezer extra credit for ingenuity. -- Terry Smith ps So what's the dope on Patty Page? Good pop or bad pop? My work colleague has a greatest hits CD that I've been thinking about borrowing.
Re: Tweedy @ Salon
A few folks have mentioned Neil Young and his topsy-turvy stylistic swings as analogous to Tweedy. I'd say an important difference is that Young -- at least not that I can remember -- never burned his bridges. When it suited him, he swung back to country or rock or whatever. I don't have an opinion on Tweedy's current record -- though the ELO comparisons make me want to stay very far away from it -- but he ought to be careful about generalizing, particularly with such an impossible group to pin down, who stand around punching the shit out of each other under the "big umbrella." But, on the other hand, he should say whatever comes into his head, because he's just yapping, and who gives a shit. If I really cared, I'd write 16 more paragraphs! -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy @ Salon, Kelly Willis
Check out the Time magazine this week. Richard Corless -- one hell of a reviewer, but mainly movies -- drools over Kelly Willis new one. I'll confess, though, I couldn't figure out what the hell he was trying to say, and moreover missed anything about the way the record "sounds," other than a bunch of vagaries about the feel, versus the sound, of Willis' voice. -- Terry Smith
Re: Clip: The state of country radio
Looking at the matter in terms of the country music industry and the way that it works, Twain's career, at least through The Woman In Me, bears a considerable resemblance to that of some of the 70s Outlaws - that is to say, a struggle with "conservative" producers and label execs over her desire to pursue a new sound that could appeal beyond the "normal" country audience by bringing in pop/rock elements. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ Jon, you keep making this point, but I'd argue that you're overstating the resemblance between Twain's career (and, by necessity, her music, since that's her career) and that of the 70s outlaws. They actually could write songs, or had the good judgment to pick songs, with some staying power and grit. I'm not a soothsayer, so I can't say this for sure, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that the tunes of Kris Kristofferson and Outlaw era Willie will be around when Shania's been long forgotten. As I said before, there's rock influences and then there's rock influences, and they're not all floating around on the same, precise relativist plain. -- Terry Smith
Re: Clip: The state of country radio
Jon quotes me here (and is kind of enough not to point out that I tangled up that last sentence and said the opposite of what I meant): I think your comparative points are instructive, but of limited utility, when we're trying to gauge to what extent rock influences have eroded or heightened the quality of country music. It depends on the influence. Quality is subjective, but to deny the lack of differences in quality is lunacy. Then he addresses that statement with this: I'm sorry, but I just can't buy the unqualified line you're selling here. There are passionate arguments here all the time about the relative merits of one rock group or another that I couldn't care less about, and if I couldn't care less about their relative merits on their own terms, why would I care about their relative merits as influences on country music? Between you and me, I never liked a lot of But isn't the history of country music more or less the history of its influences? And that being the case, doesn't that make the influences, and genres within the influences, very valid -- even crucial -- factors in assessing the music? It seems as if you're throwing all rock music into the same bag. And rock is a lot more diverse than country. Jon says he didn't like a lot of "that Outlaw stuff much anyhow - a song here, a song there, sure, but I never found it nearly as exciting or interesting as some other, less rock-influenced (at least to my ear) stuff that was coming out at the same time; the only Waylon Jennings album I ever bought until that Essential comp came out was the cassette version of Waylon Live, and that's because I really liked "Rainy Day Woman." So an argument that hinges on the superiority of the Outlaw kind of rock-influenced music over Twain's kind just doesn't go very far with me. As far as I'm concerned, the differences in quality (or, better, enjoyment) have to do with the less obviously rock-influenced aspects of their music. I agree with regard to Waylon. I liked that tune, and Ralph Mooney's memorable steel solo, better than anything else Waylon did. I was bored by a lot of the pacing and oomph, pha, pha, type bass stuff, and was always wishing he'd do more material along the lines of Rainy Day Woman. But there was a lot of Outlaw and Austin stuff at that period with great merit, including Waylon, Willie, Doug Sahm, Kris K., Asleep at the Wheel, Rusty Weir, Alvin Crow and the Pleasant Valley Boys, etc. Now that I think of it, the stuff from that time that I enjoyed the most, however, was the material that borrowed heavily from the country side. Well, maybe I should be making this argument, using punk country as my example of good rock influences I'll let my tag-team partners take over for that. -- Terry Smith
Re: Clip: Another interview with Jeff Tweedy
I LOVE that! Thank you so much for posting it. . . np. Southern Line, different but equal I enjoyed the Tweedy interview, too. See what can happen when a music writer doesn't ask JT about alt.country or no depression? Though it does seem as if the interviewer copped his brainy/smartassiness from Time magazine's Joel Stein, who copped HIS from... -- Terry Smith, who's sick of snow
Re: Boot recommendations?
Cowboy boots hurt, there's no getting around it. A slave to fashion in the jurassa-alt.country days, I wore the damn things for years, and the only use I ever found for them was, one time I was shooting a rodeo for a small paper in SW Colorado, and when an avalanche of wild bull started heading my way, the pointy toes were perfect for scampering up the chain-link fence on the side of the arena. I tried wearing my old ones a couple years ago, and just about strained myself a hernia in disebelief that I could ever have worn these things on a regular basis. Anyway, your question. K Mart sells dandy cowboy boots, leastways they used to. Another cowboy boot story. I used to wear them in college, back east, and one spring break, my pal and I went out to New Mexico, both, of course, sporting our cowboy boots. On a beer stop in Tulsa, a group of local boys saw us, spotted our cowboy boots, and in between uproarious laughter, declared, "Ha, you fellers are wearing cowboy boots, you must be from Ohio." That's around the time I learned the word, "apocryphal." -- Terry Smith
Re: Clip: The state of country radio
or something else again. I haven't seen even a whisper of a desire for twangier, more hardcore country stuff in the coverage of the CRS that's been posted here - and in fact, the positive references to "outlaws" merely underlines the point, as the musical content of The Outlaws boom of the 70s consisted in large part of "breaking the rules" and "taking risks" by bringing more rock influences into the country mainstream. Jon's probably correct when he expresses doubts that there's some great untapped audience out here for hardcore country stuff. Maybe if John Travolta makes a movie with a Pentium-powered electronic bull, in a Texas dance hall, while occasionally battering a younger version of Debra Winger, that'll spark some renewed interest in hard country, but I wouldn't hold your breath. (Wait a minute, "Urban Cowboy" sparked an interest in soft country. Oh well.) As for rock influences on country, Jon's made this point before, and it's well documented, but I'd argue that there's rock influences and then there's rock influences. The sort of rock influences that's "corrupting" commercial country music these days is, for the most part, banal, done-a-million-times bar-band type junk that was cliched when the Doobies were hacking away at it in the Seventies. Take Shania. The other day I was reacting as I usually do when I see or hear her, gagging, and then it came to me. I don't have a problem with her because of what she's doing to country music; the problem involves what she's doing to rock. The same applies to Garth Brooks. Viewed from a rock perspective, these folks are living and breathing cliches. And they're popular as hell. So, my point? It's easier for me to explain why this stuff turns me off, if I do it from the perspective of a rock fan. Coming from the country side, the main reason to have a problem with Shania (and her increasing progeny) is her desertion of "real country," and as Jon and others have so well argued, the notion of pure or real country music isn't unlike a toddler's idea of Camelot. Also, I know that Jon's rhetorical chops, with regard to rock, aren't nearly as sharp as they are with country. g -- Terry Smith np a review copy of Steve Wynn's new one. I'll report back.
Re: Clip: The state of country radio
Using up my "me too" quotient for the month, I'll say that I think Jon has this exactly right. The line- dancing-for-yuppies era is pretty well dead and buried, the suburbanites who embraced HNC in the late 1980s and early 1990s have moved on, as Jon notes, to whatever--Hootie or Lilith Fair or God knows what--and pop acts like Shania Twain and, er, Shania Twain have begun to give up any vague association with country music. That's the most convincing explanation for why the balance seems to be shifting, on country radio and on CMT, back toward a preponderance of music that we may or may not like, but that we can all agree, I think, is indisputably what we think of as country music, unlike some of the more pop-oriented HNC stuff. That's why Junior and other folks, me among them, are finding it so much easier to listen to mainstream country radio lately. --Amy I'm still not sure "the balance is shifting." Believe me, listening to country music radio these days is 50 percent luck. And it has been for years. If you tune in one day, you just might hit on Gill's shuffle duet that's getting play, and then maybe Sara Evans or Dwight. But you're just as likely to pick a day when three or four nice-sounding lounge singers with cowboy hats begin sappy ballad time. You're more likely to hear it, unless you're lucky enough to strike paydirt and find a station that's pickier, or grants the freedom to be pickier. Like Mike's. The thing is, I've been tuning in to this stuff for a long time, and the minutes when there's actually something interesting getting play haven't increased, at least from what I can notice. Of course, there's always the possibility that the ornery cuss who owns our local country station is deliberately sabotaging the playlist just to piss me off. - Terry Smith
Re: dreaded artist of the decade (plus Rushmore)
Jim writes: Which leads me to the (rhetorical?) question: Can anyone top Steve Earle for artist of the decade?? When you put: Train a'comin' Feel Alright El Corazon the Mountain back to back, etc. I'd agree with that, if we're talking about alternative country, big tent or small. But stepping away from it a bit, and using a freaking carnival tent, I'd make Earle share his pedestal with Richard Thompson (though I guess I'd make Thompson's decade end in the mid-90s). The point is that for me these two artists are very similar -- masterful songwriters and arrangers, killer vocals and guitar, and every song makes a point. Even though critics and fans have huge expectations for these two, they seldom issue a clunker, and their albums hang together as single works of art. Two of the greatest records of the past dozen years -- Thompson's "Rumor and Sigh" and Earle's "Train a Comin'." -- Terry Smith
Re: Bill Anderson article
Jon quoted from texts that quoted Chet Atkins, as follows: "In 1976, Chet Atkins made an ambivalent apology for his role in redefining the sound of country music: I hate to see country going uptown beause it's the wrong uptown. We're about to lose our identity and get all mixed up with other music. We were always a little half-assed anyway, but a music dies when it becomes a parody of itself, which has happened to some extent with rock. Of course, I had a lot to do with changing country, and I do apologize. We did it to broaden the appeal, and to keep making records different, to surprise the public." Then Jon continues: Which, she goes on to point out, is a complex statement: "He expresses regret for his part in fostering these developments but then justifies his role in both commercial (broadening appeal) and creative (making records different) terms, in relation to a public that he sought to please." This stuff is fascinating as hell, and I hope P-2ers aren't turning off to this because it looks to them like an obscure argument about some has-been era of country music. To me, this goes to the heart of most of the debates we have on this list. I think I come from the perspective that if you broaden the appeal of the music, you're diluting it, and its artistic merit is thus lessened. But as you point out about Atkins, that doesn't necessarily have to be the case, particularly if you're experimenting with sounds, as Atkins was doing. Of course, the history of popular music is full of examples of folks who had both broad appeal and incredible artistic merit. She loves you, ya, ya, ya. Stubborn me, I still feel that "broadening appeal" can just as likely -- can more likely -- have the effect of sapping the strength and honesty from music. It's not black and white, obviously; as usual, we're talking about likelihoods, tendencies, etc. No argument, though, that Chet Atkins was an amazing artist, both as a guitarist and producer. He sought a new sound and he got it. I'm just not that thrilled by it. -- Terry Smith ps so Patrick Carr is known to some of you all. That CMF book I quoted from had the singular deficiency of excluding any capsule bios of the essay authors.
Re: Terry Allen (was Re: Alejandro (was: need info)
And here's an interesting contrast to the overly polite and artsy "roots rock" types: Terry Allen's an arty Texas singer-songwriter who also just happens to be thoroughly immersed in various roots styles. He does more than just name-check roots music greats in his publicity sheets (a la Bruton) -- his music is identifiably based in country, cajun, tex-mex, etc. There's also an edginess to his sound that's noticeably absent from that of the polite snooze-rock guys. His new album's definitely gonna music, and thank god for that.--don I think don may be feeling a little better. Anyhow, I'm wondering if "edginess," as described in Allen's case, stems from him attacking outside targets, such as religion. Edginess can just as easily come from looking inside, and I think Alejandro's done a good job of that throughout his career. Yeah, I know this is songwriting analysis 101, but I just cringe to hear AE thrown in with the pejorative "snooze-rock guys" phrase. Or "overly polite and artsy." I picked up Terry Allen's re-released double record -- two of his earlier records combined as a double CD -- a couple years ago, and was bored to tears. The songwriting was right there, but the tunes were, um, damned slow. This is music we're talking about, not poetry. Not even beat poetry. Pick up the tempo, Terry. -- Terry
Re: Richard Thompson
I'm wondering, was the infamous Mitchell Froom involved with "Amnesia"? That record, from the mid-80s, began my rewarding acquaintance with Richard Thompson, and spurred met to backtrack to the best record of the A.D. period, "Shoot Out the Lights." OK, I'll put the g? in. Nonetheless, if Froom was involved with Rumour and Sign, or the double record from a couple years ago, or the followup to Rumour and Sigh, then what's the problem? -- Terry Smith
Re: instrumentally speaking
...either of Wayne Hancock's records (yeah, I know he sings, but in my mind, they still rank as instrumental albums). Hmmm. Care to elaborate? It's just that what I get out of that record mainly comes from the instrumental breaks on it, courtesy Billers, Skelton and Miller. I like Wayne the Train just fine, but remove his vocals from the mix and I'd still treasure "That's What Daddy Likes (or Wants)" or whatever. Course, he did write most, or all, of the tunes... Other instrumental records of note, in the country area, Buddy Emmons' record from the 70s, with "Roly Poly" on it, and a Mike Auldridge record from the same era that I can't recall the title of. Now a question: A lot of folks have had a chance to listen and get acquainted with Steve Earle's new one, "The Mountain." I was curious about how Earle fans, and non-fans for that matter, stack this bluegrass endeavor of Earle's with "Train a Comin," which used bluegrass/folk instrumentation but wasn't (at least to my ears) as solidly bluegrass as "The Mountain." My impression is that "Train a Comin" is the stronger record, by virtue of the songwriting, and the folkier type of bluegrass, which has a bit more appeal to my ears. I'll qualify that judgment, however, by admitting that I still haven't listened to "The Mountain" enough times to form any lasting conclusions. -- Terry Smith ps later today, if I get a chance, I'm gonna attempt to spark another thread about the Nashville Sound: "A country phase that's just as legitimate and 'country' as any other country phase, or a desperate grasp at mass popularity, or both?" -- I've been reading Patrick Carr's essay in the Country Music Foundation's "Country: The Music and the Musicians" and he's providing me some ammo. (But I still can't figure out if he's completely full of shit, or a genius.)
Re: instrumentally speaking
Other instrumental records of note, in the country area, Buddy Emmons' record from the 70s, with "Roly Poly" on it... Uh, that album's title is Buddy Emmons SINGS Bob Wills (emphasis added). There are, though, two bonified instrumentals on it - "Boot Heel Drag" and "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star I think that this is an example of what Freud might have described as repression. Since listening to that record, years ago, I've repressed the bad (or unremarkable) aspects of this record, the vocals. Which, I guess, might be a good way of describing how folks tend to remember music from "the old days." You repress the bad stuff, and generally mainly remember the good. If I could only learn to exert this sort of repression with modern country music. -- Terry Smith
Bramletts
So, I'm confused. Which Bramletts are which. I'm talking about Bonny, Randal and Doyle. Are these folks related? Which one was in one of Stevie Ray's early bands? And which one were you folks talking about the other day? I've got a new record, a review copy, of Randal, which so far I haven't gotten past the third or fourth song. A little slow, but I'm still planning to give it a chance. -- Terry Smith (who caught the biography thing of SRV on VH-1 the other night. That was way entertaining, and sad, too.)
The Nashville Sound
as any that came before, though he does come off a little hypocritical. He seems to be understanding, and endorsing, the necessity of country musicians to go outside their "natural boundaries" in order to make a living, yet he slams one period -- the Nashville Sound -- on the same basis. The thing is, I agree with him, even with the seeming contradictions -- and that stems from an arbitrary but no less valid preference, for me, for simple, stripped-down, rural, gutty musical sounds and statements. -- Terry Smith
Re: Bramletts
Randall lives in Athens -- are you talking about him? Deb Yep. Sorry about the mispelling. Just saving my typographer a little time by deleting the L. g -- Terry Smith
Re: Bramletts
On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She also punched Elvis Costello in a bar somewhere in Ohio for calling Ray Charles a blind ignorant nigger. Glad Deb mentioned this. Even if she'd never been a great single I'd always think the best of her for having done that. Will Miner Denver, CO I remember hearing this story 10 or 15 years ago; I think the town was Columbus, but I could be mistaken. The record I best remember Delaney and Bonnie's work on was that classic Clapton solo record -- one of his first as a solo artist -- with "Let It Rain" on it. I love that song, even when Johnette N., from Concrete Blonde, is singing it along with Steve Wynn et al. -- Terry Smith
Re: instrumentally speaking
Haven't been following this thread, but for altcountry instrumentalisms, has anyone mentioned the "Travis County Pickin'" album? All twang, no noodling Still the best recent instrumental album I know of, an album that gets regular time in my changer two (or three?) years after it came out. --junior I'll throw in a vote for Trvis County Pickin. Then I'll add to the list "Big Sandy Presents the Flyright Boys" and either of Wayne Hancock's records (yeah, I know he sings, but in my mind, they still rank as instrumental albums). Then, of course, any of the Hellcasters records. And then all those early David Grisman Quartet/Quintet records. Hot Dawwwwg -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Roll, you're a lunatic. But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then starts, and then stops, and then starts. Shit, I like my music to keep on rolling, and those guys were playing games with my ears. So there you have it. The rest of my over-intellectualizing pedantry -- advancing the stunning notion that UT fits into a continuum of music, and doesn't stand above folks like Lucinda, Dave Alvin, Neil Young, Doug Sahm, where alternative forms of country music are concerned -- is just pissiness brought on by having to stay home with the kids on -- yet another -- snow day. Now I've got to go out and intellectualize with a snow shovel. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Fair enough, Todd. The most interesting aspect of this thread for me was seeing the residual (but powerful) respect and support for UT et al that exists on this list. I'm surprised, I guess, because whenever there's a sort of reflexive dismissal of the alt.country field -- many of whose bands were inspired by UT et al -- we're likely to see not a peep of protest or argument. The suggestion that "skill" is something that's solidly on the country side of the tracks sometimes goes unchallenged, too. I'd just like to see more sturdy debate from the rock side of things, rather than allowing the "country side" have the field. Me, of course, I'm on the polka side of the tracks! -- Terry Smith nr(reading): Robert Harris' "Archangel" about the modern-day discovery of Stalin's secret heir, living like a hermit in the woods near the White Sea. Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler?
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Yeah but was Stalin the Tweedy fan and Hitler the Farrar fan, or vice versa? Or did Hitler think that UT were the progenitors of alt-country, while Stalin asserted that it was a decades old form that was not being duly recognized as such by the UT fans, or vice versa? Or... Actually, Stalin reportedly enjoyed listening to orchestrated music with "dogs" doing the vocals. He'd force his generals and aides to dance until the early morning hours to this stuff. -- Terry Smith (who's sincerely sorry he threw this utterly non-musical issue out for comment -- is there a purge coming?)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Chris wrote: I'm a bit amused that there seems to be a strong alt.country (or at least Uncle Tupelo) backlash going on on this list. C'mon, CK, why be amused? It's been clear to me for the past, oh, two years, that the name of this list is mainly incidental for many of us. It has about as much connection with the breadth of music discussed here, and the diversity of opinion about it, as the name "The Cowboys" has to do with that pack of gridiron miscreants who (occasionally) play football in Dallas. In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco, etc. With me, I hopped on Postcard, briefly, at the recommendation of my youngest brother, a UT fan, and then hopped off as soon as I heard about P-2. I'm not saying I'm typical in that respect; but I'm sure as hell not unique. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Reading the day's P-2 stuff late, and amazed how a few folks' simple challenge of UT's status as godheads of alternative country is being seen as heresy. A bloody explosion of defensiveness. I didn't really even see anybody criticize the music; it was mainly just a few expressions of annoyance at the notion that UT started alt.country, when, as Todd correctly (if ironically) described it, they represent a ripple -- OK, a small mountain-range -- in the continuum of country-rock and alternative-to-commercial country music. That annoyance doesn't arise from any dislike of UT, Wilco or SV -- at least not from me. As I said, I've got great fondness for UT's non-hard rock stuff, as well as SV and to a lesser extent Wilco. The irritation for me stems from the implied trivialization of all the great alt.country acts that came before UT -- or which were playing their asses off at the same time. God, nobody's even mentioned Neil Young in all this. (This debate arises from differences in defining alt.country, rather than differences in appreciation of UT, I'd guess. If we stipulated those definitions, we'd probably all have a group hug.) As for over-intellectualizing the music, um, if we stop talking about music on this list -- and WHY we like it or don't like it -- then I guess it's back to comparing notes on peanutbutter, mayonaisse and banana sandwiches or somesuch nonsense. Even tossing out a term like "over-intellectualize" is a Stalinist-type conversation-stopper. Send those damn professors out to the fields. Now. From all the huzza-huzzas that erupted after Todd's post, however, it's evident that there's a lot of seething resentment among list members who feel that UT et al are unfairly slapped around on this list. Well, folks, jump in anytime. Not you, Neal, you jump in plenty already (g). -- Terry Smith np Paul Kelly's "Words and Music." Criminy, the tune "Gutless Wonder" has a sort of Richard Thompson-esque nasty freaking attitude about it, doesn't it?
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
Cheryl's deal on this was good. I agreed with it. And I also understand where Jim Roll was coming from, about the press and alt.country. Except one thing-- I wish the term "country rock" hadn't been ruined by the Eagles and the L.A. 70s scene. It was a very useful term. I've been writing it letters where it's been interned, on some outre gulag on the eastern edge of Siberia.Let me know when it's safe to bring it back. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Your first sentence sparked a few thoughts - alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd. In a sense, alt.country is our nostalgia as much as a repackaging of "70's Metal Greats" or any of those compilations you can see advertised on TV. New ground isn't really broken inasmuch as being a crow pie sampling of styles which in some cases would etc. etc. -- from Tera This stuff confuses me, as does the idea that a "movement" evolved around Uncle Tupelo and Tweedy/Farrar. A lot of folks, including a lot of "elderly" people on this list, have been listening to what's currently encapsuled in the alt.country category, for up to 30 years, and even longer. Nothing started with Uncle Tupelo, except for a stampede of non-Austin rock-n-rollers deciding to twang it up for awhile, and, thereby, making it a lot more difficult for people like me to pick the wheat from the chaff in the catalogs and record stores. So while there may be a lot of 40-year-olds gravitating toward the alt.country category, there's a lot of us who were hanging around listening to this stuff before Jeff Tweedy was out of short pants. -- Terry Smith ps enjoyed reading the transcripts of the A-list Nashville session musicians, from the 50s to early 70s, in the Journal of Country Music. I was wondering how much of those guys' nostalgicizing about the way things used to be, and about how the session business has changed, is understandable romanticizing, and how much is on point. One point they made was that these days session guitar and keyboard players don't have recognizable styles, while in the "old days" players had a signature sound, and if they didn't, they were in big trouble. (Thanks, Jon, for the issue.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Jim's ps -- for me the term 'alt. country' indicates the combination of (post Nirvana) ALT-rock and traditional COUNTRY. UT/Jayhawks exemplefy this movement. I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here?? (by the way I am aware that the term 'No Depression' has its roots at the very least in The Carter Family -- but I would bet a quick survey of Peter Blackstock and Grant Alden would reveal that they used the term with UT somewhat in mind). As usual with this stuff, it all depends on how you look at it, and from what distance. When Uncle Tupelo came along, I listened to 'em and liked 'em quite a bit. Some of their records, both pre- and post-breakup, are among my favorites. But to this listener, at least, they didn't stand out stylistically from stuff I'd been listening to before. The Scorchers, Escovedo, Alvin, etc. They just sort of went into my record collection among all the other roots-oriented stuff I'd been throwing money at for years and years. It was only later that I started reading about their influence, etc. I'm not denying that influence, but just noting that, as Dave said, it probably has as much or more to do with circumstance and context as it does with the actual music. This applies to any music at any time, I guess, though with some music -- Elvis, the Beatles, Charlie Parker, Elmore James, Mozart, etc. -- the substance transcends or reinforces circumstance. All the yammering about Uncle Tupelo and alt.country by young squirts who wouldn't know Lefty Frizzell from Whitey Ford did get a little annoying, I'll confess. This debate, finally, really hinges on how narrowly you want to define alt.country. If you define it as punk-oriented guys playing guitar-driven rock with country undertones and heartland attitudes, who showed up in the mid- to late-80s, then I'll agree, you're probably correct about Tupelo and their influence on the genre. Draw the category a bit wider,though, and you're gonna have to contend with everybody from the Amazing Rhythm Aces to Mason Profit, from Rank and File to the Rolling Stones' Let It Bleed, from Ricky Nelson to Doug Sahm, from Carlene Carter to New Grass Revival, and on and on. And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I wasn't necessarily challenging her argument.
Re: country radio
After wrappin' up Swingin' Doors last night, I tuned to one of Seattle's commercial country stations. They were playin' John Anderson's "Straight Tequila Night," one of my favorite country songs of the '90s -- alt. or otherwise. While it's true that modern country radio's programming is erratic at best, they're still capable of knockin' one outta the park. For those interested in hearing actual country music -- as opposed to roots-rock, f*lk, etc. -- you're still quite likely to run into it on mainstream country radio. And you're certainly gonna hear a lot more of it there than you will on your local AAA station.--don Well, yes and no. I don't have an AAA station, so I can't speak to that. But I do have three country stations pre-set on my car radio, and I can drive to work -- about 17 minutes -- without hearing one tune worth listening to on any one of those stations. Bland, formulaic, non-threatening, slick jingles, with a few cute phrase formulations, the same guitars, etc.* But then out of nowhere, they'll play something great -- Lee Ann Womack, Randy Travis, Anderson, Vince Gill (they've been playing that country shuffle duet lately), Dwight -- etc. So if you tune in and expect to be blown away, best be prepared to wait a while. And maybe pre-set nine or ten stations, just to be safe. -- Terry Smith * of course, this applies to most commercial radio, no matter the genre.
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith except that MY ONLY POINT was that the media has dubbed them as the originators of this movement and that THAT is what Tweedy is distancing himself from. --JR Actually, you made a few more points than that. My point, whether it dovetails apositively with your point or not, is that whatever media proclaimed Uncle Tupelo the originator of alt.country MUSIC suffer from a musical blind spot that's several decades huge. No argument, however, with the reality -- which is that somebody's wrongheaded assessment of Uncle Tupelo as a Brand New Musical Thang did, in fact, inspire a revitalization of the country-rock genre -- young rock bands playing country-type material. So we're both right -- they started something, but that something was started under false pretenses, whether UT intended it or not. I'm sure they didn't. Hey, there's no harm in arguing this stuff, is there? My wife thinks I'm dense, too. -- Terry Smith
Re: Damnations TX vs tired UT sounds
Oops, forgot to reply to this. I can't speak for Neal, but for me anyway, it stands out simply because it's so much better than yer average run-of-the-mill alt-country album -- quality songs performed well, with some of the most deliciously soulful singing that I've heard from an alt-country act in quite some time.--don Yeah, but what do you like about it, Don? -- Terry Smith ps that was a joke. Oh yeah, welcome back, Mr. Purcell. You've got some catching up to do, mister.
Re: Covers: A Follow-up
Now if current altie type bands, rock or country or whatever, were to dig back to my AM listening days, they'd be covering (OK, I'll exclude the Beatles and the Stones): "98.6," "Don't Walk Away, Renee" (God, I love that song), "Snoopy and the Red Baron," "Incense and Peppermints," "Ichycoo Park," a lot of Supremes, and that's all I can remember of those early radio moments, sixth grade or so. Of course, the rest of the time I spent watching "Batman" and collecting Batman cards, with the put-together puzzle on the back. Baseball cards, too. Occasionally, though, I'd accidently rotate the dial to WSLR radio in Akron, and the legendary "Jaybird" would be spinning 60s country. I always rotated back to the top 40 station before I had a chance to notice those dreaded Anita Kerr singers! Anyhow, this is mainly just a sly plea for a modern alt.country band to cover "Don't Walk Away Renee." -- Terry Smith ps does Lee Ann Womack have a new song out, where she talks about doing a lot of nasty things to a female rival, who's "a small target, that skinny little thing" or something like that? It's a great tune, what I heard of it on the radio.
Big Book of Co. Music
Was perusing Richard Carlin's "The Big Book of Country Music" (Penguin Press, 1995) last night. Man, this book is chock full of provocative judgments about country music and its past -- enough stuff to launch hundreds of lengthy threads about such things as country vs. pop, production, the relative merits of various artists, etc. On the latter issue, Carlin more or less pronounces Steve Earle as a one-shot flash in the pan, whose only work of any real merit (as of the early 90s) was "Guitar Town" (The segment on Earle begins: "Earle is a country-rocker who has never really lived up to his potential after the release of his now-legendary 1986 album, 'Guitar Town,'" and concludes several hundred words later, "After a 1990 tour with Bob Dylan, Earle has for the moment faded from both the country and pop scenes." On the Nashville Sound and the later Countrypolitan phase in country music, Carlin is decidedly contemptuous, more or less mirroring some of the stuff I've argued on this list. He goes too far, though, in laying down value judgments without anything to back them up. Such as: "After the pernicious effects of the Nashville Sound had rendered country music into a bland reflection of middle-of-the-road pop, the seventies drove what seemed to be the final nail in country music's coffin with the development of country-politan, or crossover, country artists..." Or: "While countrypolitan and even seventies crossover country tried to 'modernize' country music by employing cushy choruses and sappy strings, the country-rock crowd was showing that the real strength of country music lay in its strong lyrical content and its stripped-down sound..." Or, in reference to the Anita Kerr Singers, whom Chet Atkins used on some of the records he produced (including Bobby Bare's): "(They) appeared on countless Nashville sessions (in the late 50s and 60s), oohing and aahing behind Jim Reeves, Red Foley, the Browns and countless others. As such, they represent the worst excesses of the Nashville Sound, when plodding pianos and sighing singers drowned legitimate country acts in dreadful audio ooze... Anita Kerr deserves much of the credit for the success of mainstream country recordings of the sixties. And for all who love ear candy, there's nothing like an Anita Kerr LP to take you down memory lane.." Well, there's a sampling. No pretense toward objectivity, plenty to rile up just about anybody, and some factual errors that even I noticed. I suspect that this book has been discussed here before, but since I lack an encyclopaedic memory, forgive me if I don't recall it. -- Terry Smith ps in the Bobby Bare entry, he cites "Detroit City" as a seventies hit by Bare. Did Bare record this tune twice, or did Carlin get it wrong? I know Bare recorded this tune in the sixties.
Re: Big Book of Country Music
Thanks for some of you guys' input on this book. I sort of figured you wouldn't be too thrilled about it, those of you who take a tolerant view of pop influences on country music. Even skimming through the book, I do detect that the author, Richard Carlin, definitely has a bad attitude about pop music. Every time he mentions it, nearly, he adds some snide adjective or comment. The fellow apparently comes from a roots-oriented perspective, and has a disdain for the "phoney" sounds of pop. Me, I like pop just fine, as long as it's old pop and not new pop. Picky, picky. -- Terry Smith
Re: Changing Subject Lines
whole alt-country (whatever that means) scene as well. Sad to say, but I have so little patience for CDs by guys with acoustic guitars or bands of post- college boys with a few twangy instruments and band names plucked from the twang cliche machine, countless of which are piled up in my office at this moment in time. Earnestness is one thing, finding something fresh to say is another. It's gotta be really something special at this point to make me want to write about it and/or listen to it a million times. The Damnations and Pete Krebs are the two that currently tend to fall into that category. Neal Weiss Geez, Neal, if folks like you don't listen to those piles of twang hopefuls, and then sift out all the crap, then we're gonna have to do all the dirty work. C'mon, we depend on you guys to sacrifice your ears to the common weal, to save all the rest of us schmucks from wasting untold fortunes on Twang Devil, and Barbed Heart, and Cowboy Ear, and Dudley Doright and the Mounties, and, aw, you know what I mean. So, buck up, son and get back to work. There's another dozen pieces of twang shit to listen to, in order to find that one diamond. -- Terry Smith (now, who the hell is Pete Krebs?)
bluegrass
Been enjoying the exchanges about Steve Earle's "Mountain," and how it's being received on both sides of the bluegrass divide. Someone wondered if anybody else had gotten hot-shot bluegrass players to work with them -- so I've got to mention Dan Fogelberg, who in the 80s got a who's who of bluegrass knights to back him on a record. Forgettable songs, generic muzac-ified bluegrass, if I remember correctly. And I'm one of the two or three living human beings who actually treasured DF's first two singer-songwriter records. Another point about bluegrass that someone brought up -- how with a lot of folks the high, keening vocals are an instant irritant. On the other hand, however, I remember how the sound of the banjo and fiddle often had the opposite effect. John Denver didn't make zillions just by the sound of his voice and his songwriting -- that bluegrass veneer did a lot for that country boy. There's a sizable segment of the North American population who are genetically unable to resist a sizzling banjo/fiddle breakdown. Of course, the mandolin is an acquired taste, which explains why it's better but... -- Terry Smith
Re: A Contender!!!!
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: three living human beings who actually treasured DF's first two singer-songwriter records. Then Jerry: Remember this statement whenever you all begin to abuse my music tastes. Yet another contender for the ummost eclectic music tastes. Me, eclectic. Ha. I'm a willful, musical chauvinist, under the theory that if you've got an inner reservoir of prejudice and narrow-mindedness, then why not sublimate it on music? The trick is to cover your dirty tracks with longwinded, plausible rationales for your arbitrary choices, and then stay one step ahead of Jon, er, I mean, the law. Terry, ya going to T3? Naw, my youngest brother is putting together a big ol jazz festival in Indianapolis the previous weekend, and has made it clear that fraternal obligations will be enforced. Bastard. And I'm too old and entangled in other obligations to get away with two out-of-town weekends in a row. But I do get to designate the host of the late-night room party Thursday night at the Oak Grove. Bribes to be taken off my list of prospective hosts should be sent to... -- Terry Smith (DF is Dan Fogelberg, and I really did like his first two records. Not bad at all. Course, I didn't listen to the lyrics real good.)
Re: The Eradication Game (Re: Grammyszzzzzzzzz....)
Oh, yeah, forgot about that Joni Mitchell thing. Eradicating her would leave the world without "You Turn Me On I'm A Radio," hence without Gail Davies' fine first version of it (she recorded it again for her recent, misleadingly-named Greatest Hits), hence without Leland Sklar's impossibly beautiful bass part on that record. Besides, Blue is a fabulous album. Blue is an incredible record. It still moves me today the way it did 20 years ago. Every song is good, and some of them are spine-tinglingly so. Oops, gotta strap my skates on and head down that river. - Terry Smith ps eradicate Sawyer Brown. Now. Plus all the bands that name themselves after states, or state slogans, or Tennessee nuclear power plants.
Re: Production-- Ralph Emery's take on this thread
I must chime in here too, pointing out that my pal Michael Berick (MoMZine and ND contributor) has foolishly taken my advice and logged on to P2. Welcome MB. And to all you non Los Angelenos out there, this has got to at least prove that there's what, at least three, four or five cool folks that hail from this his region, right? Neal Weiss Um, yeah, sure, Neal. Uh-huh, right. -- Terry Smith
Re: Production-- Ralph Emery's take on this thread
Most assuredly every writer does not like every editor he/she is ever assigned to work with, but I've never been in a position where I just handed my manuscript to an editor and said "Here, change it at will." There's a give and take there, much like what El Presidente Gracey described. Looking back on this thread (that was Shane excerpted above, and below), it's becoming evident that of the many facets of music we can discuss around here, production is perhaps the most slippery. Since music appreciation is inately subjective, and, lacking personal testimony from the participants, it's impossible to really know how a producer and artist are collaborating, arguing about production is sort of like arguing about which primary color is prettiest. And I started the damn thread! Anyhow, in my own arbitrary, subjective head, I do prefer to maintain the myth that the artist is the one calling the shots on production. As for Chet Atkins, since most of the artists he worked with wound up receiving similar arrangements for their tunes, I'd say that's fairly good evidence that he was calling the shots. That doesn't mean the artists had a problem with his choices (though I don't know that you can assume perfect harmony on those choices either). Yes, young upstart writers don't always get the luxury of choosing their editor, but a good editor worthy of the job title doesn't take the writer out of the editing process-- indeed, the writer is the key ingredient in the editing process. As an editor, and a writer, I'll just say that it pisses me off when a writer leaves all the work to me, as an editor. The final product is going to look a lot more like what the writer intended, if he or she thinks it through, and does internal editing him or herself, before handing it to me. So, maybe in the same way, I prefer those producers who gently usher the artist through the process, and expect the artist to call the shots on fundamental issues, such as, do we use a 40-piece orchestra, or just call in Del McCoury et al. With the caveat, of course, that sometimes my sense of how the record came to be is fabricated in my own head, molded with my own preconceptions and dispositions. -- Terry Smith np Bobby Bare/Chet Atkins again. "The Game of Triangles" is a killer song. I'm wondering how it would go over here in the late 90s. It has one line that goes something like this, "A woman can't steal a husband who's happy at home." Yikes.
Re: Production-- Ralph Emery's take on this thread
However, I must say that in Atkins' defense (as if he needed it- he's a giant) that in the instances where the addition of pop elements would have been jarring, he didn't do it (like for Charley Pride and Johhny Bush.) (I still maintain that those Bare records were not jarring when we heard them for the first time- they fit perfectly with the era. Objecting to the Anita Kerr singers just would have seemed silly in the 60s.) He didn't just run from studio to studio cramming strings and singers onto country records, he used good sense to try to slick up what could be slicked up and left the rest alone. That was Joe. Yeah, notwithstanding my grumping about Chet the Producer, I have tremendous respect for the man. I still have my "Superpickers" LP, too! And are those suburban singers really the anita kerr singers? Sheesh. One more thing, people today hear things differently, have different attitudes about production, so, I'm curious, was Atkins slick production really the "normal" way folks expected to hear country tunes produced in the 60s? I just have to think that it still bothered a lot of folks back then. Of course, I'm just guessing. -- Terry Smith ps I just got a press release from a publicist for Atlantic Records' "Old Dogs" session, a record with Bobby Bare, Waylon Jennings, Jerry Reed, Shel Silverstein and Mel Tillis that was originally sold via telemarketing. It really stresses their outlaw status. Check this out: "Unlike the glossy 'flatbellies' or more homogenized icons of today, these country music trailblazers were the discontented and brilliantly expressive Marlon Brandos and James Deans of country music. If they couldn't have done it their way, they wouldn't have done it at all Included in their touring legends is the template for many of the 'bad boy' bands that came after them..." PR BS
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
Hey Terry, no matter how far down I scrolled on your last post, I couldn't find your usual PS. Did you forget? No one packs more into a PS than you Thanks, David, I don't know why I have that tendency. Maybe it's a reaction against inverted pyramid style. But I will try to be careful about being consistent with my PS's. Here's an excerpt from Chet Flippo's chapter in "Country: The Music and the Musicians." He was writing about the early 70s' Outlaw Revolution: After discussing why Nashville was losing track of its audiences, and not doing so well, Flippo writes: "During this time (the late 60s, early 70s) there were many factors that came to change country music drastically and forever. I would like to concentrate on one that was basically fostered by singers caught up in the Nashville Sound. There came to be a broad-based revolution spawned by the non-power brokers -- the writers and singers -- that was as much influenced by the Beatles as Bob Bylan, as much by the Vietnam War as by country star Johnny Cash... It was called the "Outlaw" movement, a glib publicity term, but it came to represent a genuine watershed in country music history. "It sprang from a back-alley rendezvous in Nashville between kindred spirits who liked to stay up late and carouse around town before getting down to business with some music. But it came to represent a real determination by a handful of artists to bring country music into line with the rest of the musical world -- artistically as well as financially. By the time it ran its course, the Outlaw movement had changed the face of country music forever. The producer as king -- that fuedal notion was shattered. Country artists gained control over their own record sessions, their own booking, their record production, everything else related to their careers, including the right to make their own mistakes..." This doesn't prove anything, vis a vis Nashville sound = good or bad. But I guess it does at least back up the notion that the Nashville sound was mainly a producer/label-driven thing, and listening in hindsight, that factor makes it harder for (me) to appreciate it, especially when it's hitched to street-level, gritty tunes whose lyrics demand atmospherics of a less sweet and "managed" sort. At least for me. Part of my problem is the chasm between 1) how much the lyrics of Streets of Baltimore and Detroit City and Five Hundred Miles from Home really grab me, give me goosebumps almost, put me in the place of that lonely warehouse or factory worker, a long way from home (me in L.A. in 1978-80), and then the 2) deliberate management of the sound, to make it appeal to as many people as possible at that time, which, in so doing, snaps its fingers and transports me away from that factory and that loneliness. It pisses me off. Though I'll confess, I need to move on. After arguing about this, I think I've copped a worse attitude about the Nashville Sound than I really need to have. -- Terry Smith ps You know, Vince Gill singing "Forever on My Mind" at the Grammy's, with full orchestral backing and the Vienna Boys Choir singing background (g) was the highlight of the show. Really. Oh, yeah, when Shania came on in her dominatrix get-up, I started hooting, and whining, and bitching, and my kids said something like, "Shut up, dad, you sound like some old grandmother complaining about Elvis." Of course, I beat them severely.
Re: Production, can't Bare it
On a personal note, I don't hold to the theory that is sometimes advanced here that artists are "forced" to bend to the will of producers against any artists' better judgment. I don't know jack about how to record an That was Shane, this is Matt, the turncoat g Unfortunately, Shane, this is true in alot of cases: artists are frequently forced to bend to the will of the producer in making records. That's not to say it always happens, or even happens most of the time, but it does happen. Newly signed artists don't always have the clout or experience to guide them. COurse, I can't think of any examples right this minute (well, I can: Buddy Holly), but the "theory" -while perhaps applied wistfully by fans -like Terry-who disagree with production choices- is based on valid concerns and tales voiced by performers. Shane sort of made it sound as if there's this constant level of contact between artist and producer; it's always the same. In fact, I'd imagine unwistfully that's it's always different, depending on the producer and artist and what sort of relationship they have (or have had foisted upon them by the label). Sometimes the producer calls the shots on how a record will be arranged and produced, and sometimes the artist keeps a lot of control, or produces it himself. Sometimes it's a draw, or shifts to one side or the other. But I think it's just as big a mistake to assume that artists usually keep creative control over their work as it is to assume the opposite. This idea that labels always force their artists to do this or that is a notion that I ain't heard around here, except in the sense of, sure as shit it happens sometimes. Does anyone else notice how qualifications such as "sometimes" or "occasionally" drop out of later discussions of issues? I do it, too, but then I'm old and weary, and brain-dead from listening to too much Bobby Bare/Chet Atkins. -- Terry Smith
Re: Grammyszzzzzzzzz....
Not to be the type of cad who would pile on a delicate flower like Ms. Twain, but if Jon can pick out a vocal phrasing thing from the Maines gal in the Dixie Chicks that bugs him, I'll do the same for Shania. When she starts off a song, by saying, "cool" or "get it, boys" or something like that, I just want to kill somebody. I don't know why this bothers me so much, but that's it. Of course, my wife, who's a transplanted Canadian, tried to stick up for Twain when I complained about her, and then tried to argue that I should respect her accomplishments since both her parents died when she was young. I sputtered a bit and then grumped out of the room. Cool. -- Terry Smith
Steve Earle and Britney Spears
Just got back from the record store where my daughter and I picked up new ones by Earle and Spears. Can't wait to put it on. -- Terry Smith ps actually, I hate to admit it, but that video by young Britney is catchy as hell, as is the song. I usually hate that sort of stuff. Another musical success from the MickeyMouseTrust.
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
A few points: Believe it or not, but I never laid down a blanket rejection of "heavy arrangements" -- strings, singers, etc. At least not this year g. What I was saying was in the context of the Bare stuff from the 60s that Chet Atkins produced. I just didn't think it worked very well, because the dissonance between the working-class/gritty sort of tunes, and the suburban Pleasantville type production was just too off-putting. And I can't believe that this was an artistic choice - a deliberate effort to add tension to a tune. It was to broaden the audience. That's not bad, but to this "narrow" listener, it stood out like a sore thumb. To me, production is like makeup on women; when it draws attention to itself, then it's not working. (When I discussed Dwight's record, "A Long Way Home," last week, I wasn't criticizing the production -- I don't have any problem with it -- I was just talking about it, raising some questions about why folks made a big deal about Holler's arrangements, but didn't emit a peep about Dwight's.) As for Bobby Bare's intentions, you all are right. It's impossible to project some notion of mine onto a guy whom I've never talked to (though I'd like to have a chat with him). On the other hand, I am curious about how Bare became an inspiration for the outlaw movement of the 70s. After he got through with Chet in the '60s, just what the hell was he rebelling against that caught the attention of Waylon and Billy Joe? Or was all that outlaw rebellion just a profit-motivated pose? I really don't know the answer to those questions, cuz in the 70s I accepted (and loved) all that outlaw stuff without questioning it. That's all for now, though I'll confess that David's analysis of this topic pretty well blew me away. He added some layers of complexity to this idea of heavy arrangement = bad, and stripped-down = good. And a good point, too, about there's more than one way to skin a cat. In the end, how we view "artistic choices" has a lot to do with what sort of environmental filters have been installed in your own head over the years. Growing up in the 60s and 70s, I learned to reject the "suburban sound" -- strings and backup singers -- because that's what my dad always had playing on the car radio. Como, Sinatra, Martin, Davis Jr., etc. Stripped-down rock n roll was the thing, and the same sort of partiality eventually led to my same feelings about blues, jazz and then country. I know I'm biased, then, but on the other hand, I still believe that once you accept your biases, and try to compensate for them, you can credibly look at the production choices, artistic choices, whatever, on something like "Detroit City," and decide, with some objectivity, that the fucking thing sucks wind. Yeah, a joke. Actually, despite my problems with the Bare/Atkins stuff, I still like to listen to it, because the songs are so damn great and so is Bare's voice. And, after giving "The Streets of Baltimore" another listen, I'll concede that this one is pretty damn good. All for today (thankfully) -- Terry Smith
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
Terry). In any event, if Bare was looked at as a model by Jennings or others, that's news to me. I'd say that he got put in the outlaw category, to the extent that he did, more because of, er, lifestyle choices, an interest in doing material by some left-of-center writers like Guy Clark and the cultivation of a good-time Charlie, drinkin'n'druggin' persona than because he was unhappy with Chet Atkins' production. This explanation from Jon sounds plausible, as does a similar one from Joe. Jimmy Gutterman's liner notes in the "Best of Bobby Bare" had the stuff about Bare being an influence, etc.,for the Outlaws movement. If I had more time, I'd go look and get the exact wording. Maybe later. With regard to the interplay of commercial and artistic consideration, I think Joe Gracey and David Cantwell have covered that ground pretty well already. "Let's make a hit" isn't the same as saying "let's make some sucky music." Yes, thinking about how to sell records shapes the making of them, but it generally does so in a more imprecise way; when you get in the studio, you want to make the best record you can given existing constraints, whether that's the lack of a piece of equipment you'd like to use, or the recognition that if you don't come up with something that's going to sell, you're not going to get another chance. Such factors shape, but don't control, what gets made. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] This also makes sense, though I'd add that there's a continuum on this line -- how much do I compromise in order to get listened to -- that's a matter of degree. Some people compromise everything; some less; some don't have to. But you've gotta admit that there's a point that you get to where any more compromise is just going to ruin what you're trying to do. I edit a small-town paper, and try to hold the line against conceding too much territory to the bottom line. At the same time, you can't avoid doing it. The trick is maintaining your own vision, while still paying the rent. Like with anything. On the other hand, this fucking country is full of newspapers that surrendered to the bottom line a long time ago. And I truly believe the same applies across the spectrum of mass media. Where does Bobby Bare come into play? Nowhere. I just didn't like Chet's production on a few of his songs, and stand by my reasons, notwithstanding the looney notion that a rural, working-class tune might work just dandy with the Cleveland Orchestra providing the sonic backdrop, and the Vienna Boys Choir doing the doo-waps. I don't find that a distressing judgment, just common sense. -- Terry Smith
Hyper produced Bobby Bare
I picked up the Best of Bobby Bare, the poorly titled Razor and Tie/RCA package of Bare's early to mid 1960s years with RCA, and mainly producer Chet Adkins. On the whole, I was pretty disappointed. As a Bobby Bare fan in his later years (Marie Lebeaux, Dropkick Me Jesus, that gorgeous duet with Roseanne Cash, etc.), I never realized how sappy and pop-glopped his 60s output was. All those wonderful tunes -- Detroit City, Houston, Miller's Cave -- ruined with Adkins' mega production. And don't dismiss this as another kneejerk rant against strings, because, through the Jon Weisberger/David Cantwell Re-Education Program I've attended for the past couple of years, I've been able to finally appreciate pop production, a la Roger Miller, Skeeter Davis. But in the case of Bobby Bare, whose tunes are explicitly rural and working class-oriented, the glossy production just doesn't work (for me). And I don't even mind the strings so much, when used judiciously. But add those freaking jingle-like female choral flourishes to the mix -- and they're added on just about every tune on the record -- and it's bizarre. I realize the historical context of this sort of thing, and its connection with the transition of country music from rural to urban, but I just don't think it works. With most of those tunes, I've heard them done later, without the glossy arrangements, and they've sounded a lot better. The Streets of Baltimore, Miller's Cave, Houston, etc. Finally, the record's last two cuts, they finally leave out some of the gloss, and they sound great. Most of the clutter that comes between the listener and the artist has been removed, which, of course, is the way the good lord intended for this music to be listened to. (Last comment a shameless provocation.) On this issue, I guess, once again, I feel the way I felt back in the 70s as a jazz fan, when CTI came out with a bunch of heavily arranged jazz records by artists (Deodata, Hubbard, Airto, Turrentine), which may have hit the jazz-pop target, but seemed to obscure the individual talents of the players. Oops, getting off target and into rough waters. Dive, dive, dive. -- Terry Smith
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
Now, Jon, let's talk. You mean to say that those jingle-singers coming in dooby-doobying, or whatever, in the middle of the working-man's lament, "Detroit City," don't bother you? To my ears, the dissonance between the gritty lyrics and vocals, and the glossy uptown arrangements, is insurmountable. And, yeah, these songs recorded by Bobby Bare were hits, with both country and pop, and were obviously calculated to succeed on those levels. But that's the aesthetic problem -- a producer "managing" a performer's sound to succeed in the market, but in so doing, diluting the tunes into mush. I can't believe that Bare, looking back, hasn't wondered whether he shouldn't have done the songs differently. He probably doesn't wonder too much, because regretting grand success is sort of a useless occupation. But still... But getting back to the earlier point... Isn't there a sound aesthetic argument for arranging "gritty" songs in a "gritty" fashion, and giving urbane lyricizing a glossier finish? Jesus, the way they arranged Miller's Cave, they may as well had Perry Como singing it. -- Terry Smith
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
And another thing My last message ended sort of abruptly, so I forget wherethe hell I was going. I guess I'd just like to know whether you defenders of 60s pop-country, the Nashville Sound, or whatever it was called, have ever heard a song from that era -- or any era -- that was too heavily arranged with background singers, strings, etc? I'd really like to know. I've heard a lot of that stuff that sounds dandy, but also some that doesn't. To my short list of Bobby Bare, I'd add what one of Hank Thompson's later labels did to his best work. -- terry smith, embattled again and enjoying it. Nobody argues much around here any more, and if I've got to martyr myself to the greater good, then fine. With Matt Cook acting like a big fluffy teddy bear, someone's gotta step into the void! g
Re: Cowboys to Girls (?) was Derailer news!)
Down here in the wilderness of SE Ohio, I don't hear about these great Columbus shows. Criminently, Alvin AND Chris Gaffney playing the same bill. I'd have walked to Columbus for that. Chris Gaffney has put out three of my favorite records of the past 10 or so years. His tune, "The Garden," is a T.S. classic. And that "Cowboys to Indians," or whatever it's called, is a great cover, as Matt said. It doesn't hurt when Lucinda is pitching in. -- Terry Smith ps so what, specifically, is the Damnations TX's song "Kansas" about? There's no lyrics in the record, so I haven't been able to ferret out the words precisely, but the tune apparently involves the "bloody Kansas" pre-Civil War period (or maybe post-Civil War?). I thought it was pretty neat that a band has enough historical savvy to make a (very good) song out of a fairly obscure historical reference point. Or maybe they're singing about the rock band...
Re: Over-produced?
Yeah, I wrote "overproduced?" in the subject line quickly without attempting to label Dwight one way or another. (I call him Dwight because I can never remember whether Yoakam is spelled with an "am" or a "um.") Anyway, I just think it's interesting that a performer such as DY and a producer such as PA have mutual reputations for being fairly traditional, or rootsy, or honky-tonk -- and for being able to do what they want, and not kow-tow to pop-country radio. Yet, when you listen to that 99 Dwight record, it's pretty heavily arranged, from song to song, and doesn't hew to any preconceptions about sparely produced roots music. He can get away with that, and succeed at it, because he's already paid his dues, I suppose. Yet, when someone like Mike Ireland does some "revolutionary" things production-wise, it turns into a big discussion point in all the music rags (and lists). -- Terry Smith, whose precise point continues to elude him ps And, I'll repeat, that DY record was one of my top 10 from last year, so I don't have any particular problem with the production.
Re: mainstream country query
Hey there, If nobody has mentioned Faith Hill, I will. This is going to sound weird, but she is just so damn gorgeous and (seemingly) friendly That did sound weird Terry. And I'm picturing a Faith Hill poster up on your bedroom wall for some reason. Later... CK Faith's got a poster? Oh... my... god...
Re: Damnations TX, Reba, Bobby Bare
Bob's P.S.: I think the reason for the references to the Louvin Bros. toward Damnations TX is that they actually sound like Freakwater, and *they* sound like the Louvin Bros., as we all know. g This is funny. The review where they mentioned the Louvins comparison appeared in USA Today (at least the one I read), but they also compared The Damnations TX's harmonies to Exene and John Doe of X, who themselves have been compared to Gracie Slick and Paul Kantner (or was it Marty Balin?) of Jefferson Airplane. So we've got the Jefferson Airplane, The Louvin Brothers, X, Damnation TX, and Freakwater, all harmonizing like sick dogs in some delirious record reviewer's head. -- Terry Smith
Half Mad Moon
Great record. You all were right. Except that guy from Usa Today who compared the Damnations TX sister-singers to the Louvin Brother singers didn't know what he was talking about. The only similarity is the fact that the two pairs are each related by blood. I don't hear the X comparisons either, at least with regard to singing. Anyhow, when I listened to it, I expected the "second voice" to be louder in the mix, and more of a vocal contrast to the lead singer, as in the Louvins. But not so. Anyhow, a good record with clever, engaging songwriting, and best of all, a nice, tangible, chunky sound. I love the bass. -- Terry Smith
Re: Half Mad Moon
Yup. It worries me though, all the accolades and buzz about 'em here and it's just February. We'll have 'em cut down to size by summer I reckon, and by top ten time they'll be forgotten. g b.s. So which night at Twangfest are The Damnations TX gonna headline? I think it's obvious they're gonna be there. Anybody wanna bet? -- Terry Smith, who has no inside knowledge (about anything)
Re: mainstream country query
If nobody has mentioned Faith Hill, I will. This is going to sound weird, but she is just so damn gorgeous and (seemingly) friendly, and her songs don't make me gag like Shania's do. So there it is. Faith Hill's the queen of country music. -- Terry Smith, who actually prefers Lee Ann Womack, if what we're talking about is songwriting
Over-produced?
I was listening to Dwight's 98 release again last night, closely, and came to the conclusion that this is just about the most produced records in the country genre from last year. Well, one of 'em. Remember how Mike Ireland and Holler's record got a lot of attention because it has strings on a few songs? And some folks criticized it for being over-arranged or produced (I know these mean different things, but am not really sure why). But, shit, Dwight Yoakam's record is like a ceramic pot that's been worked so slick that you can see yourself in it. In comparison, Ireland/Holler is a barebones affair. I don't know what this is leading to; certainly not a value judgment, since I like both records. Dwight's, in fact, is probably one of my favorites of his (though it's no "Looking for a Hit" or "Buenes Noches...") I guess it's just a way of saying that the presence of strings doesn't necessarily say much, one way or another, about the production ethic that's going into a record. Oh, yeah, DW's record has more strings, used less delicately, than the Holler record. -- Terry Smith
Re: Apaches in Saxony
I saw a lot of this (German tourists) out west, too. But not only German tourists (usually IDed by their sandals and thick socks, even in rough desert terrain) but a lot of Japanese, other European peoples. We lived near Four Corners Monument (about 35 miles away), and you'd go to Four Corners and not hear a word of English (or Navajo!) being spoken. The same with Arches National Park, and the trek up to the main arch. I felt like I was part of a Rommel regiment, trekking to the high ground. This isn't a bad thing, or a xenophobic thing. I think it's cool that non-Americans are able to check out this country's most beautiful spots. And at Four Corners, they're the only folks not trying that lame-o put four limbs in four states trick that everybody tries, and everybody thinks they're the first one to try. And musical content? Not a damn bit. Sue me.
The Damnations/a review
From today's USA Today, a capsule review by Brian Mansfield: The Damnations TX, "Half Mad Moon" (***) The garage-style Stax beat that opens "Unholy Train" shows right from the start that there's more going in with the Damnations TX than most alt.country bands. If echoes of the Louvin Brothers show in sisters Amy Boone and Deborah Kelly's harmonies, it's only because they learned them from listening to X's Exene Cervenka and John Doe (me: Huh???). "Commercial Zone Blues" and "Black Widow" show a college-town urbanism. Rob Bernard's banjo brings rusticity to "Spit and Tears" and "Kansas." The punked-up twang may give this Austin, Texas, trio its attitude, but ultimately those harmonies are the Damnations' saving grace. 30 The record's out today so I guess I'll judge for myself what a band sounds like that cops its harmonies off of Ira, Charlie, Exene and Doe. -- Terry Smith
Busted; thanks a lot
I'm not trying to blame anyone, but yesterday I walked into a local record store, and wound up in jail. I had approached the clerk and asked politely, "Do you have the new record by The Damnations TX in?" and he replied, never heard of it. Then he looked it up and said, "It's not released yet." So I answered, "Of course it is, everybody on my music list -- you know this computer mailing list -- has been talking about this record, so it must be out." He said nope, it's not out yet. This went back and forth for a spell, until I angrily grabbed the clerk by the neck, a la Homer and Bart, and started wringing him out like a sopped washrag. To make a long story short, the police showed up, hauled my ass to jail, and now hear I am writing this sad story, in between mournful harmonica solos from my cellmate, a kicker from Bakersfield by the name of Merle... -- Terry Smith ps now let's talk about some wonderful development property I have for sale in the Florida swamp.
Cisco
I'm finally catching up with some relatively new music, in particular Cisco. This guy and his band are very good, and I'm wondering if there's any "buzz" about them in the music biz. I know there was a bit of talk about Cisco on the list a month or so ago, but at the time I hadn't heard the record, so it didn't mean much to me. The record comes off to these ears as an appealing mix of Chris Knight and Jack Ingram, and the very straightforward, simple production works well. So, thus far in 99, this one's on my top 10 list. But, of course, as of Feb. 23, it'll have some company. And now I've gotta add the Damnations TX to my wanna buy list, too. Terry Smith ps I was wondering whether there's much in country music lyricizing about doing your taxes. Somebody's gotta have done "The 1040 Blues," right?
Re: Charlie Rich/Holler
Terry Smith wrote: "If I remember correctly, when Mike Ireland and Holler came out with their debut last year, Ireland repeatedly mentioned Charlie Rich's work from the mid-60s as a major influence, specifically noting the sophisticated arrangements, with strings, horns, etc." Then Lance corrected me: The Charlie Rich material Ireland is thinking of here might be the work done with Billy Sherrill after the Smash stuff and before Charlie finally made money with Sherrill as the Silver Fox. These have been released on Koch: "Set Me Free," "The Fabulous Charlie Rich" and "Boss Man". I'm surprised it took so long for someone to correct me on this. I posted that Charlie Rich/Mike Ireland comment a month or two ago at least, and almost as soon as I sent it out, I realized, hey, wait a minute, Ireland has cited the later CR stuff, not the Smash stuff, as an influence. Oh well. -- Terry Smith ps I caught James McMurtry at Slim's in San Francisco over the weekend. I was surprised at the size of the crowd; the place was jammed. I'm wondering if that's because SF is just such a big town, and everybody does well there, or if JM is especially popular on the west coast. I've gotta think that if he played in Columbus, he might draw about 25 people. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyhow, Slim's wasa cracking club, though McMurtry's stuff, after about an hour, started sounding the same. I was listening to it through about four pounds of congestion in my ears and nose, so that might have been a negative factor...
