; Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuela List
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:05 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Definitions
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 19:35:11 +0800, Edward C. Yong wrote
> Hello!
>
> Well, yes, I know they're specific forms, but it'd be intersting to
s Alfabeto section, complete with simple
strumming patterns. So in a way, that really is a dictionary...
cud
__
From: Edward C. Yong
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuela List
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 6:35
back to 5 course baroque guitar)
V.
> Message du 06/11/13 16:37
> De : "Chris Despopoulos"
> A : "Valery SAUVAGE" , "Vihuelalist"
> Copie `a :
> Objet : [VIHUELA] Re: Frets
>
> I don
I don't know whether you can say going from 5 to 6 coursed marked the
change. I believe I saw in a museum in Milan a 6-course guitar with
tied frets. As a total layman, I can't say anything about what was
original or authentic. The label says:
Chitarra (a sei corde), Sanctus Seraph
Frankly, I prefer to use the word "intimate" in place of "feeble". I
would not urge extroversion... an introverted reading sounds very nice
to me... This coming from somebody who habitually bangs on his guitar
like a stable boy (or however that disparaging quote about the guitar
g
Out of curiosity, how is a mandora to be played such that strumming
would not work? (Not to be confused with a mandore, right?)
cud
__
From: WALSH STUART
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: Monica Hall ; Vihuelalist
gt; by practical
> >> considerations
> >> > not by what anyone
> >> > > may have learnt in their harmony
> >> course.'
> >> > your second sentence about
> >> > > the irre
ve fiddled around a bit.
cud
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:32 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: G chord on Baroque Guitar
Well - I think we are getting a
I have an opinion -- Giving that opinion may open me up to some
"clarification", which is why I'm giving it. In other words, if I'm
wrong about this, please let me know!
When playing the modern guitar, I'll choose to add the D on the 2nd
course (from high to low) or not, at will. C
I think I see the confusion with the library site... If you click the
most obvious link (the title on the right) you don't see access to the
PDF. You have to click the least obvious link -- the numeral "2" at
the left. I thrashed over that for a good 20 minutes myself -- finally
s
Quite lovely!
__
From: David van Ooijen
To: Vihuelalist
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 6:51 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] early music in the 19th century
Napoleon Coste was interested in music by Robert de Visee. See fou
Very nice... I would love to see this ms some day. Your little guitar
sounds very nice.
As for tuning the mandore, I believe the Chancy ms has three different
tunings. His ms seems to be for a plectrum -- well, I was taught that
he marks up and down strokes, so that would indicate
I just found this -- a thesis by Natasha Frances Miles submitted to the
University of Birmingham. Time permitting, I intend to give it a
read. I can't imagine the guitar didn't enjoy certain burlesque
qualities from time to time, and I can't imagine the young upstarts in
court woul
As a relative newcomer to early music (less than a decade), I want to
second this point. The right hand is quite important. When teaching
guitar to youngsters I try to explain that the right hand is far more
important than the left. To illustrate, I play lots of left-hand notes
an
I can competently contribute to this topic.
1. Email is fundamentally a social phenomenon. That means lots
of different people are involved. Give up on uniform compliance
to any protocol. Even machines have a hard time doing that.
2. In general, most people stack discussions
I personally don't want to argue this point. First because I'm not
qualified, and secondly because it's not really what I was saying.
Monica, you're absolutely right that by definition it's not continuous
bass when playing derived harmonies in the alfabeto. I was only
supposing tha
I thought one of the significant points of the period was a transition
to harmonic vs voice thinking. And that the guitar was well
positioned, if not instrumental, within that transition. So whether we
call it bajo continuo per se, it's consistent in my mind to consider
alfabeto a
For pipi runs, it isn't explicit in the manuscript, but what about the
last variation of the Sanz Folias? There are passages with runs on the
4th and 5th courses -- to play them with thumb-only down strokes
imposes a strict speed limit (and he tells you to run away with this
variati
Well, for the last statement -- plucking adjacent courses -- I would
say that it depends on your goal with the body of the right hand. If
the goal is as I've been taught, which is to keep the hand as inert as
possible (which gives it its weight), then you have no choice but to
strik
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say I had trouble fully playing
adjacent double courses. I was talking about trouble when playing
pipipi on the same course.
If anything (for me, at least), to get an even balance of bordon and
treble on a course for p and for i, I would want the su
describing how I play.)
cud
__
From: Lex Eisenhardt
To: Chris Despopoulos ; vl
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2011 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar bridges
- Original Message - From: "Chris Despopoulos"
<[1]despopo
I have to take issue with the idea that thumb-out will tend toward an
upward stroke (if I understand what you mean by thumb-out). Indeed,
I've always played thumb-out, coming to Baroque guitar from the modern
guitar. One thing I have always trained my hand to do (thumb included)
is
Well, my guitar has holes for the bridge. I can't comment on the
historical accuracy of it.
In my imagination, I always assumed the use of slots gave you the
option to adjust the spacing between strings on a course. Maybe
different players had different preferences. Or maybe you n
I have the Chancy tabs, but they're packed away at the moment. I
should be able to get at them, scan this branle, and send it off on Wed
or so. A word of warning, the mandore (the Chancy tabs are for
mandore, not mandora) is strung with 4 strings, and there are various
tunings. So
I'm reminded of the engraving of a riot/melee between those who support
use of the nails and those who do not. Face it... Guitarists are a
weird bunch.
How to you get a guitarists to be quiet? Hand him some sheet music.
What do you call a guitarist who broke up with his girlfriend
The music could have been impossible to perform because of the
condition of the manuscript. Some significant number of notes may have
been obscured, for example. Or perhaps the music was scattered across
different manuscripts or versions, and the editor compiled these
instances int
That's an interesting summary to read. I think there's a gray area
here between scholarly work and performance. There's no doubt that a
scholar should get his (or her) due for intellectual exertions. The
question is, what is that due?
When a scholar publishes a historical text, th
Not referring to the specific manuscript, but... I don't see any
musical inconsistency in marking a LH position in preparation. LH
preparation is one of those things so common in guitar that I believe
it isn't written down anywhere -- not even in modern methods. Or at
least, I've
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 8:21:29 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming techniques - was With/Without Bordones
Well trino and trillo are two different things - but I
ies, and bad hearing). But I think we're in violent
agreement that it is not a trillo.
__
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 10:30:55 AM
Subject: [VIHU
it! And indeed, I hope to inquire about
the sources...
Anyway, I had hoped to open up this line of discussion. I'm glad for
it, and hope to learn as a result! Many thanks to all...
cud
______
From: Martyn Hodgson
ople (like me) probably decide to
give
up! Maybe the really showy stuff is for some alfabeto and/or for some
chaconnes/passaccales rather than general application in mixed
tablatures?
Taro Takeuchi has evolved some impressive sounding strumming
techniques
and he ha
I can't say whether it looks like a 5-course instrument -- the image is
too small for me to make out the pegs. But it looks well enough like a
baroque guitar to me. OTOH, I can't say anything about the gentleman's
garb. Is it baroque, or earlier? I just don't know enough about
co
other way.
__
From: Stuart Walsh
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Sat, April 16, 2011 1:55:20 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] With/Without Bordones
On 16/04/2011 16:56, Chris Despopoulos wrote:
>I've recorded a few pieces
I've recorded a few pieces now with a bordon on the D course -- Suite
by Roncalli, Paracumbe, and Folias by Sanz. These are compared to
similar recordings I did without the bordon. Oddly enough, the earth
did not crack open and swallow my guitar, flaming toads did not fall
from the
About the "octave hopping" -- I've noticed that in other works, and in
cases that have nothing to do with stringing choices or technical
difficulties... Notes that could as easily be played on the higher
octave, or even doubled. And playing with bordones does not lead into
the jump
Hi All...
For your entertainment or whatever else, I posted the full set of
movements in this suite - Preludio, Allemanda, Corrente, Gigua,
Sarabanda, and Gavotta. Find it near the bottom of the Guitar MP3
player on my page:
[1]http://cudspan.net/baroque/
Please excuse any bli
No octave strings on my guitar (for now, anyway).
cud
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 9:43:03 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Paracumbe
Those of
trade and all that. Anyway, that's how I tried to read the music...
Cheers cud
__
From: Stuart Walsh
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 3:18:29 AM
Subjec
Hi all...
I posted a recording of the Paracumbe por la A from the "Libro de
Diferentes Cifras, M/811 (1705)". Just another re-entrant entry...
For what it's worth.
cud
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Well, if you were familiar with the work of Lynn Margulis, you would
understand that I don't disparage the status of the parasite...
There's a convincing argument that parasites were key to the evolution
of complex cells, and consequently most of what we experience in life
(re-entran
Nice stuff, Stuart! I'm impressed with how the music sounds like it's
coming from two different instruments. An exaggeration maybe, but only
a slight exaggeration. The tunes themselves are different in nature,
but the treatment really makes a huge difference. Both treatments are
I'd like to add my vote for the usefulness of these discussions. I
don't have the benefit of a career studying the field, yet I gain the
benefit of your scholarship. Parasitic on my part, but it
significantly helps to inform my approach to the instrument.
cud
_
is, do you also play Bartolotti, Guerau or de Visee without
bourdons?
Lex
- Original Message - From: "Chris Despopoulos"
<[1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>
To: "Vihuelalist" <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:
Well, I can only say, from my own experience and study (such as it is)
that it is not a "sacrifice" to play without bordones. It's different,
but no less rich, and certainly no sacrifice... in *my* experience.
In fact, it has opened up musical possibilities, as well as technical
po
Not surprisingly, Sanz indicates trills or mordents for the two lower
courses in the first two books:
* Marionas in two separate pieces
* El que gustare de falsas ponga cuidado en estos cromaticos
* Gallardas
* Espanoletas #3
* Pasacalles por la O
* Clarines y Trompetas
I just posted some recordings, and thankfully I did so before reading
this:
>>I have no problem with the pavanas played without bourdons. Try
listening
>>to Gordon Ferries - or Chris on this list perhaps has recorded it.
Just
>>bear in mind
>>that the opening phrase will be
Hi all...
For what it's worth, I posted a few more recordings on my web site:
[1]http://cudspan.net/baroque
These include the first Fuga by Sanz, on a fully re-entrant instrument,
and the Prelude of Roncalli's Suite 1 in G Maj, also re-entrant. I'm
afraid it gets a bit boring bec
My experience with Sanz and fully re-entrant tuning is that there are
two voices, but not necessarily divided into melody and bass. Why
can't two sopranos or tenors sing together?
>>The one side is what we think we hear. The other is that if music has
>> two or more voices, which is
I think there is an ambiguity in the guitar's sound. Anecdotal
evidence is in the list archives... How often has so-and-so said that a
performer did use bordones, while another said he/she didn't, while yet
another couldn't tell? I've seen that on this list a few times.
_
ped.
Monica
- Original Message - From: Peter Kooiman
To: Franz Mechsner
Cc: Vihuelalist ; Chris Despopoulos ; Harlan Glotzer ; Monica Hall
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start?
Hello Franz,
> but some
so explicit as what we're used
to in a fugue.
cud
__
From: Peter Kooiman
To: Franz Mechsner
Cc: Vihuelalist ; Chris Despopoulos
; Harlan Glotzer
; Monica Hall
Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 4:55:11 AM
#x27;m just an amateur here. It's all great fun, and I hope you
take it in that way!
cud
______
From: Harlan Glotzer
To: Monica Hall
Cc: Chris Despopoulos ; Vihuelalist
Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 9:01:1
ld go with what
feels good. That makes me feel young again!
cud
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 3:25:16 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar,
y kind of perk up when they see a baroque one.
______
From: Harlan Glotzer
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Monica Hall ; Vihuelalist
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 5:11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start?
Thank you both for you speedy and detaile
up the history... Thanks for
the clarification.
cud
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 3:51:30 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to
Hi Harlan... Some comments from an amateur...
I believe I have seen some references to graduating the fret gut as you
move up the neck, but I can't remember where. Nonetheless, my guitar
uses the same size gut for all the frets, and it was made by a very
reputable person who not on
like it!
cud
__
From: "Nelson, Jocelyn"
To: Chris Despopoulos ; Stuart Walsh
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 11:43:16 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
Hi Chris,
I thin
cud
__
From: "Nelson, Jocelyn"
To: Chris Despopoulos ; Stuart Walsh
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 7:26:28 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
I enjoyed this, Chris. The voices in the Chancy pieces are clear and
distinct
uch more spritely.
And yes, I'm stuck on fully re-entrant tuning at the moment. It
fascinates me.
cud
__
From: Stuart Walsh
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: "Nelson, Jocelyn" ; Vihuelalist
From: Stuart Walsh
To: "Nelson, Jocelyn"
Cc: Vihuelalist ; Chris Despopoulos
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 11:52:10 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
On 12/01/2011 16:35, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
> Certainly nothing wrong with dances and ballad tunes, a
Thanks... My instrument is 30 cm, and actually 5-course, single
strung. I presume it's made according to historical understanding...
I believe Carlos Gonzales is a historian as well as builder -- he's
planning a workshop on building ancient Egyptian/Coptic lutes this
April, for exa
Octaves may have indeed given birth to campanela (and general thinking
in terms of re-entrant tuning). But I have trouble accepting that
extending the guitar down to the bass was a driving factor during the
Baroque. If so, then I think we would have seen 6-course instruments
sooner
measire of the piece. Given the
velocity of the passage, either alternative is well within technical
reach. But that's not his choice. Interesting stuff...
cud
__________
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Chris Despopoulos
g anything in stone about stringing the instrument. But in
general I like having the G as the lowest note for this music.
cud
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Mon, November 22,
e onto another course and really doesn't
help solve this raging argument about stringing/playing the guitar.
Any advice you can offer on this piece is quite welcome!
Cheers cud
__
From: Monica Hall
In my experience, I would say nearly all Sanz definitely *works* with
fully re-entrant tuning. I find only one fugue that gives me any
problems... Every other piece I have tried so far sounds absolutely
great, and makes perfect sense in a fully re-entrant tuning. It takes
a little
Another point of re-entrant tuning that any self-respecting ukulele
player would understand, is that of chord voicing. It's notoriously
difficult to voice close intervals on the guitar... hence difficult to
directly transcribe piano music to the guitar, for example. With
re-entran
hes,
Stewart.
-Original Message-
From: Chris Despopoulos [mailto:[3]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com]
Sent: 19 November 2010 07:30
To: Stewart McCoy
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence
Dear Stewart...
You say:
"Some of the dance pi
Well, stairway to heaven brings up an interesting issue of music, and
that's imitation. How many kids learned that old saw without having a
clue of what they were doing? (I can name one for certain...) To ask
it a bit more politely, how often is theory invoked to explain what we
a
course, if the website sites offers money back, then it could be an
almost hassle-free test.
Luca
Chris Despopoulos on 15/10/10 10.30 wrote:
>My instinct would be to play one before buying it, and in fact,
play
>the very one you intend to buy. These added bits of in
My instinct would be to play one before buying it, and in fact, play
the very one you intend to buy. These added bits of information you
mention don't add that many bits of information, in my opinion. We
know Taylor "designed" the guitar, we know Taylor is great, and we know
luthie
Hi Martyn... I have comments interspersed below...
Cheers cud
__
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Monica Hall ; Vihuelalist
; Stuart Walsh
Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 9:14:16
Thanks Stuart for posting the manuscript. Thanks for your playing as
well...
Looking at the manuscript, I'm trying to find the notorious "doubled"
expression for a note... Namely, what is redundant, and hence opens
the question, why would the composer use redundant expressions for
don't seem to contradict what I would consider to be the logic of the
instrument (or is it vis versa???).
Anyway... I'm glad lists like this are around.
cud
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despop
nto the
chords?
cud
__
From: Monica Hall
To: Chris Despopoulos
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 4:11:28 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: stringing and performance
Thanks for the detailed analysis. I
Ok... I have played through the Corrente dette la Favorita, and by and
large I agree with Monica. Where I don't agree is when she says:
> One example in Foscarini which I think is significant is the
Corrente
> detta
> la Favorita on p.60 especially the opening bars. He has m
I don't know Foscarini's music, but I can say a few things about the
thumb in general. There's nothing more or less impractical about using
the thumb than any other finger. It's a matter of practice. One can
use the thumb for rapid linear passages with up/down strokes on single
st
lem is the very frequent G minor chord, which would be far more
difficult to make than it is now (letter O).
Of course, in a later stage, when the guitar had reached great
popularity, the barre became part of the guitar technique.
Lex
----- Original Message - From: &quo
I like thinking about the evolution from 4 to 6 strings. I'm sure we
can only speculate, unless there are explicit statements made at the
time that we can uses as guides. Monica and Lex, you both use words
like "perhaps" and "likely"...
I'm not convinced that the requirement of bar
Random musings from a folksy perspective... Not scholarship, just a
love for the guitar in all its forms.
Going back to good old Lead Belly (Huddie Ledbetter), who played the
12-string guitar because he wanted a loud, piano-like sound -- not
unlike the advice we get from Sanz about
Interesting... To my unschooled ears, I didn't find anything
objectionable in the "Foscarini". I'll admit that I'm getting tired of
the ciaconna rhythm and its ilk... It's getting very popular I think
because it's so approachable. Sort of like los Tangos are popular in
Flamenco b
I'd like to chime in (no pun intended) as a cured classical guitarist.
(And let me add, nothing is worse than a cured drunk.) Hello, I'm
Chris, and I'm a classical guitarist. Today I've been bordon - free
for six months (applause).
Actually, I struggled with this issue when I first
Having just attended classes on the Baroque Guitar at La Semana de
Musica Antigua in Gijon, Spain...
Eduardo Eguez pointed out that the Sanz manuscript is a book of
ensenyanza... that is, you're learning the pieces. Most certainly,
any player above the beginner level would have tak
Almeria is not too far from Granada... You could try visiting Carlos
Gonzales:
[1]http://www.luthier.org/ Contact info on his bio page.
He builds historical instruments, and might have a vihuela laying
around. Just make sure he's there before you go -- he does festivals
in the
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