Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: Re: André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 5

2021-06-22 Thread Auke van Breemen
; I suggest that offering supporting arguments for one's claims is more > likely to foster substantive discussion than merely making assertions and > allegations. > > Regards, > > Jon S. > > On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 1:41 AM Auke van Breemen < > peirce-

[PEIRCE-L] Fwd: Re: André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 5

2021-06-22 Thread Auke van Breemen
phaneroscopy. Occupied with tha phaneron only, we still have to take the step of consciousness of objects-referred-to and consciousness of interaction. Auke Oorspronkelijk bericht -- Van: Auke van Breemen Aan: Jon Alan Schmidt , peirce-l@list.iupui.edu Datum: 21 juni 2021 om 22:34

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 6

2021-06-21 Thread Auke van Breemen
Gary F. I think your next step is a little premature since there are still some unsettled questions regarding the slow read of the former sheet. Unless of course the method of tenacity is entertained, in that case you are justified to hurry up. Auke > Op 21 juni 2021 om 23:34 schreef

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 5

2021-06-21 Thread Auke van Breemen
Gary, Why consciousness and not awareness or apperception? Those terms seem more adequate for the situation. Auke > Op 21 juni 2021 om 23:05 schreef Gary Richmond : > > Jon, Helmut, List, > > Thank you for correcting me, Jon. Yes, 1ns/2ns/3ns of consciousness. My > error. > >

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 5

2021-06-21 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon, Instead of consciousness I would prefer awareness or, maybe still better, apperception (in the sense of leibniz) but for the remainder it is a good correction of Gary R's erronous response to Helmut and I think in line with the intention of Helmuts remark. Auke > Op 21 juni 2021 om

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 5

2021-06-21 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon, You wrote: In our current context, I fully agree that we are each making "good faith attempts to arrive at a terminology we can serviceably use in discussing Peirce's phaneroscopic practice." -- 1 Please specify current context. I get the impresion that context ought to be interpreted

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 5

2021-06-21 Thread Auke van Breemen
Gary R, You wrote: > Nevertheless, your other points are well-taken. Even in speculative > grammar, Peirce replaces qualisign/sinsign/legisign (1903) with > tone/token/type (1906-1908) and experiments further with alternatives for > "tone." However, most of that is in unpublished

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4

2021-06-19 Thread Auke van Breemen
d > is in conflict with anything Peirce said on the subject. > > > > Gary f. > > > > From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu > On Behalf Of Auke van Breemen > Sent: 19-Jun-21 09:18 > To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu > S

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4

2021-06-19 Thread Auke van Breemen
t; > > > Gary f. > > > > > > From: Auke van Breemen > Sent: 19-Jun-21 04:06 > To: g...@gnusystems.ca; peirce-l@list.iupui.edu > Subject: RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4 > > > > I think I never had you. So how

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4

2021-06-19 Thread Auke van Breemen
the exact definition of "science", so ok, I guess, > phaneroscopy may be called a science. Setting closer borders of "regard" > helps to not miss something. > > Did I get everything ok? > > Best > > Helmut > > > > &

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4

2021-06-19 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, Good points. You might be interested in Ramchandran and Hirstein's : Three laws of Qualia. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233684568_Three_laws_of_qualia_What_neurology_tells_us_about_the_biological_functions_of_consciousness Auke > Op 19 juni 2021 om 5:36 schreef "John F.

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4

2021-06-19 Thread Auke van Breemen
; connection with phaneroscopy, and give some examples, but that probably > wouldn’t answer your question either, so I’ll have to leave it at that. > > Gary f. > > > > From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu > On Behalf Of Auke van Breemen > Sent: 18-Jun-21 14:3

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4

2021-06-18 Thread Auke van Breemen
develop a clear and > distinct idea of what the science is that Peirce called phenomenology or > phaneroscopy. > > I hope this helps … > > > > Gary f. > > > > > > From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu > On Behalf Of Auke

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 4

2021-06-18 Thread Auke van Breemen
Gary, List I wrote: Or the veracity of a pheneroscopic excercize. -- You wrote: “Veracity” does not apply to it in the way it does to a proposition, because what is predominant in phaneroscopy is not Secondness but Firstness. -- In my non native estimate the word veracity applies to

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Readings about Semeiotic (was Readings about Phaneroscopy)

2021-06-17 Thread Auke van Breemen
of being-in-control, but the dynamic object of science, namely, > > reality - has been lost - within all the unconnected immediate objects > > entrapped in each classification. > > > > Edwina > > > > On Wed 16/06/21 3:54 AM , "Auke van Breem

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Readings about Semeiotic (was Readings about Phaneroscopy)

2021-06-16 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon, You wrote: It is not just the method of analysis that is different for each science within Peirce's classification, but also the object of study. Phaneroscopy examines whatever is or could be present to the mind. Semeiotic studies only signs and semiosis. -- The dynamical object of

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Readings about Semeiotic (was Readings about Phaneroscopy)

2021-06-15 Thread Auke van Breemen
Edwina, Jon, I disagree with both of you. With ET because yes that is possible. With Jon, no, it may be the same dynamical object. I always liked the distinction between formal and material object. Both phenomenology and semiotics have the same material object, but differ in formal object,

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Readings about Semeiotic (was Readings about Phaneroscopy)

2021-06-15 Thread Auke van Breemen
CSP: But a pure picture without a legend only > > says " something is like this." True he attaches what amounts to a legend. > > But that only makes his sentence analogous to a portrait we will say of > > Leopardi with Leopardi written below it. It conveys it

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Readings about Semeiotic (was Readings about Phaneroscopy)

2021-06-15 Thread Auke van Breemen
Cathy, Gary must speak for himself, but I like the way in which you exemplfy the 'without legend or label' part of Peirce's determination of a painting as a hypericon. best, Auke van Breemen > Op 15 juni 2021 om 17:26 schreef Synechism Center : > > Gary R, List, > >

Re: Sowa and the Meaning of Equivalence Relation. Was Re: [PEIRCE-L] Consequence as Logical Primitive (was Resending)

2021-02-11 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jerry, I think you did hit the weak spot: > But, I will save you the time and effort and suggest that the term > “equivalence” as you used it in the sentence: > > > > > > > > > > > > > JFS> In mathematics and logic, equivalence means freely > > >

Re: Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Inference as growth (was No subject

2021-02-01 Thread Auke van Breemen
> Op 1 februari 2021 om 17:03 schreef Helmut Raulien : > > Auke, Jon, John, Edwina, All, > > I don´t see, that a transparent universe is the critical point: Jon A.S.´ > example is valid in a transparent universe too: > Helmut, The point is not if Jon's example is valid in a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Inference as growth (was No subject

2021-02-01 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, This part of the article Edwina send is relevant: It follows that logic, in Peirce’s illative, ecstatic sense, is better understood as an inductive rather than a deductive science, for the ampliative work of inductive inference better exemplifies, in a richer, fuller sense, the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Existential Graphs in 1911

2021-01-30 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, Let's take the sequence from the architecture of science: math. logic, phenomenology, semiotics, critical logic, ... , methaphysics. You assume that my remarks concern the interval logic ... methaphysics. That however was not the object of my remarks. My remarks concerned the interval

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Existential Graphs in 1911

2021-01-29 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, During your repeated debates with Jon an experience I had as a freshman philosophy kept knocking at my doors of perception. It was the first meeting in which each of the students had to read a passage of Hegels logic. I was the first to read and started with the first alinea in which

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Existential Graphs in 1911

2021-01-28 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, I was thinking in terms of goals, i.e. what is the object you try to understand, not credentials. I can connect Jon's answer to my question with his line of reasoning and I did like that. Their might be differences in the goals and then it is always better to asses and value the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Existential Graphs in 1911

2021-01-24 Thread Auke van Breemen
From the list perspective: Jas wrote: I have said it before, I will say it again--we have different purposes, so we reach different conclusions. -- Since perspective is important, it might be a good idea to explicate the differences in purpose each of you entertain. best, Auke > Op 24

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Philosophy of Existential Graphs (was Peirce's best and final version of EGs)

2020-08-31 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, > Op 30 augustus 2020 om 20:55 schreef "John F. Sowa" : > > > Auke, I agree with you about the issues and priorities. > > AvB> Peirce is multi facetted. Each of us looks from a particular > angle... I am not interested in what might be the final version Peirce wrote > on the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's discovery of 2 June 1911 (was Philosophy of EGs

2020-08-23 Thread Auke van Breemen
ier writings as "irrelevant and > obsolete." Such an approach would be no more legitimate than relying > entirely on earlier passages and ignoring the later ones. > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Structural Engineer, Synechist Philoso

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's discovery of 2 June 1911 (was Philosophy of EGs

2020-08-22 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, Jon Alen, list, I am not interested in what might be the final version Peirce wrote on the negation vs scroll isue. Even if John is right, the interesting point that remains is not the actual history of Peirce's thought, but the systematic problem it poses. It remainds me of Hempels

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's methodology

2020-08-03 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, Thanks for the Eisele pdf. I did like this ms fragment very much: Further, "It is not so much the history of science as it is the history of sound scientific thinking which I am considering" [Peirce MS 12801. -- It seems to come down to: never consider the textual production of a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Hyperbolic Cosmology (was The Pragmatic Trivium)

2020-06-27 Thread Auke van Breemen
; > actually exist for more than a nanosecond, and, to reproduce as types > > [whether as chemical molecules or as cells]. > > > > Firstness continues within Thirdness; and therefore, there cannot > > be a final state of pure habits. > > > >

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: The Pragmatic Trivium

2020-06-26 Thread Auke van Breemen
; new habits, intellectual life would come to a speedy close" But - Peirce > reminds us that 'There always remains a certain amount of spontaneity in its > action, without which it would be dead" 6.148. > > Edwina > > > > On Fri 26/06/20 7:30 AM , Au

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: The Pragmatic Trivium

2020-06-26 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, A good summary of Peirce's take on esthetics is to be found at: http://www.signosemio.com/peirce/esthetics.asp A nice feat of the description is that it contains some fine remarks on Peirce's conception of God. In the end, I think, that Peirce could regard any work on art less feeble

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Way of Thinking (was Theory and Analysis of Semeiosis)

2020-06-17 Thread Auke van Breemen
> an exertion, or to a Sign, which determination is the Interpretant. (CP > 4.536, 1906) > > > > > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran > Laymanhttp://www.LinkedIn.com/in

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Way of Thinking (was Theory and Analysis of Semeiosis)

2020-06-16 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon Alen, Just to avoid misunderstanding. JAS: As I have made clear in multiple previous posts, I do not consider the emotional/energetic/logical interpretants to be the same as the immediate/dynamical/final interpretants. I never suggested that I do consider them the same and did not notice

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Sign Relations

2020-06-16 Thread Auke van Breemen
failed > Op 16 juni 2020 om 3:42 schreef Jon Awbrey mailto:jawb...@att.net >: > > > Test • Please Ignore > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Way of Thinking (was Theory and Analysis of Semeiosis)

2020-06-15 Thread Auke van Breemen
y sign has a > conditionally necessary (final) interpretant, and thus a possible (immediate) > interpretant, even if it never has an actual (dynamical) interpretant because > there does not happen to be an interpreter present to be determined by it. > > Regards, &g

Re: [PEIRCE-L] commens and commons

2020-06-12 Thread a . breemen
term > commens precisely because it was (and is) not in common use. Appropriating > Peirce’s technical term to evoke the broader concept of the commons invites > confusion by reading into Peirce a conception that is only vaguely related to > the context of his argument. > > > > Gary f. &

Re: Re: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Way of Thinking (was Theory and Analysis of Semeiosis)

2020-06-11 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon Alen, > That is an opinion, and even if valid, it does not change the fact that > Peirce invented and defined "the commens." I find it misleading to use his > peculiar term to mean something else. > > Isn't our duscussion about the meaning of a particular term, i.e. commens?

Fwd: Re: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Way of Thinking (was Theory and Analysis of Semeiosis)

2020-06-10 Thread a . breemen
Jon Alen, Robert, Edwina, John, List, RM: We need the commens here to "contain" all these conventions and therefore it cannot depend on the only minds that communicate; it is out of minds. We discover it when we are born and then internalize it throughout our lives. JAS: Again, there may

Re: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Way of Thinking (was Theory and Analysis of Semeiosis)

2020-06-10 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon Alen, Robert, Edwina, John, List, > RM: We need the commens here to "contain" all these conventions and > therefore it cannot depend on the only minds that communicate; it is out of > minds. We discover it when we are born and then internalize it throughout our > lives. > JAS: Again,

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The plethora of Interpretants

2020-05-26 Thread a . breemen
Jon Alen, you wrote: I continue to stand by my own definitions. Own definitions? I only see citations. You wrote: I am really trying to understand both the system and the process. My question: is the text you wrote (see just below) in the same paragraph indicating your process view?

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The plethora of Interpretants

2020-05-25 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, Thanks for this info. I came to this conclusion by analyzing the 8th signtype (rhematic, symbolic, legisign) from the point of view of KiF. ()= involvement. The outer brackets signify that the process is not yet finished. It just are fragments of what is involved in the proces: sheet,

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The plethora of Interpretants

2020-05-25 Thread a . breemen
Jon Alen, You cite: CSP: I do not mean by "collateral observation" acquaintance with the system of signs. What is so gathered is not COLLATERAL. It is on the contrary the prerequisite for getting any idea signified by the Sign. (CP 8.179, EP 2:494, 1909) and continue: The immediate

Fwd: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The plethora of Interpretants

2020-05-24 Thread a . breemen
Jon Alen, I do not even need to read te second and third alinea of your post. Of course Short is right in this view. But that is trivial and not in conflict with my statement. It simply follows from the difference in viewpoint: type vs process. And to be frank I think it is better to leave

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The plethora of Interpretants

2020-05-23 Thread a . breemen
Edwina, list, That is a debated issue. Bergman did summarize the main positions: Fitzgerald, Short and Zeman. In my opinion the logical interpretant of the emotional, energetic, logical sequence is a placeholder for the other triplet. Van Driel was the first to write this, but without

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Methodology (was To put an end to the false debate...

2020-05-17 Thread a . breemen
John, I agree with your broadening up the seeming dichotomy to an open ended diversity. But I suggest to go all the way; also within a science we find different angles on the same subjectmatter. Semiotics not being excluded. But, I think there is a second current to be aware of in our

Re: [PEIRCE-L] To put an end to the false debate on the classification of signs

2020-05-16 Thread a . breemen
Robert, A clear statement, thanks. I have but one remark. You wrote: RM: I begin with a short history that will show that the state of the relationship between proponents of methods described as empirical and those of mathematical methods is not good. -- You go on to describe your

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Essay about categories and logical presuppositions

2020-05-10 Thread a . breemen
Bernard (nice to hear from you), Robert, list, BM: As to the length your paper makes me shift in opinion : 3, 6 or 10 is probably a question of the required accuracy for the expected usage of the generated sign classes -- A nice observation, Bernard. Robert, Is this what I ought to or could

Re: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-05-03 Thread Auke van Breemen
lay a little game that, sadly, went bad. > > Best, > > Gary > > > > > "Time is not a renewable resource." gnox > > > > Gary Richmond > Philosophy and Critical Thinking > Communication Studies > LaG

Fwd: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-05-03 Thread Auke van Breemen
gnox Gary Richmond Philosophy and Critical Thinking Communication Studies LaGuardia College of the City University of New York On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 4:29 AM Auke van Breemen < a.bree...@upcmail.nl mailto:a.bree...@upcmail.nl > wrote: Gary R, Don't miss the distinction between q

Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-05-02 Thread a . breemen
John, Edwina, list, looking at the subject line: I did introduce the nonagons in my reply to Jon Alan because I think that besides discussing theory with the help of examples, in order to stay grounded, it is needed to look from what perspective and with what interest we discuss the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] qualisigns

2020-05-02 Thread Auke van Breemen
eer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran > Laymanhttp://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt > -http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > > On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 8:47 AM Auke van Breemen < a.bree...@chello.nl > mailto:a.bree...@chello.nl > wrote: > > > > >

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Different Semeiotic Analyses (was tree-structure)

2020-05-01 Thread a . breemen
Gary F. John, list, Gary, I agree. But think you are to hard on John. It does make sense to look at a token. I did it multiple times with art students, comparing two stages in their design process, sign aspect after sign aspect. Always with the qustion: why is the latter better, then the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] qualisigns

2020-05-01 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon Alan, List, I think that by now our discussion about interpretants has been carried trough to a sufficient degree. In the sense that the respective positions have been clarified as far as possible and no further gain is to be expected. Yust one note about doubt supposed to be a habit. The

RE: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-30 Thread a . breemen
Gary F. Much better detailed and disentangled from the dispute going on about the role of a 'reality' test in doing semiotics. I think we are in agreement. Auke > Op 30 april 2020 om 16:02 schreef g...@gnusystems.ca: > > > I think I’m in agreement with what Auke says here, but would

Fwd: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: tree-structure

2020-04-30 Thread a . breemen
Best, Auke Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Laymanhttp://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt -http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 3:55 AM Auke van Breemen < a.bree...@chello.nl mailto:a.bree...@ch

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-30 Thread a . breemen
Apr 29, 2020 at 2:00 AM < a.bree...@chello.nl > mailto:a.bree...@chello.nl > wrote: > > > > > > Of lately I work with webmail and that puts in another adress. So, > > with delay my response to Jon Alan. > > > > > Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Fwd: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: tree-structure

2020-04-30 Thread a . breemen
different. Best, Auke Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Laymanhttp://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt -http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 3:55 AM Auke van Breemen < a.bree...@chello.nl mailto:a.b

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: tree-structure

2020-04-29 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon Alen, > while I indeed consider signs to be iconic/indexical/symbolic rather than > pure icons/indices/symbols, > re: I think we need to consider them from both angles. If we deal with interpretation processes we need the pure ones. The are needed to cover the apprehension of the

Fwd: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-29 Thread a . breemen
Of lately I work with webmail and that puts in another adress. So, with delay my response to Jon Alan. Oorspronkelijk bericht -- Van: Auke van Breemen Aan: Peirce-L Datum: 27 april 2020 om 10:30 Onderwerp: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation Jon Alen, You wrote: Thanks

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-26 Thread a . breemen
t; > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran > Laymanhttp://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt > -http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 8:02 AM Auke van Breemen < a.bree...@chello.nl &g

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-25 Thread Auke van Breemen
l is nothing more > or less than an attempt to block the road of inquiry. > > Gary f. > > } Owing to general causes, logic always must be far behind the practice > of leading minds. [Peirce, BD ’Method’] { > > http://gnusystems.ca/wp/ http://gnusystem

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-25 Thread Auke van Breemen
Gary, List, Well, this is nice meat for a semioticean. How is such a misunderstanding possible? For me the sliver pertains to John and the girder to JAS. It is JAS who on the one hand demands literal quotes (which belongs to text exegesis) but on the other avoids the meat (i.e. doing

[PEIRCE-L] Fwd: an observation

2020-04-24 Thread a . breemen
List, I got flabbergasted reading JAS response to John. It proves possible to tenaciously stick to the authoritarian method in order to uphold one's own a priori principles. But only at the price of disregarding or disqualifying a lot of what has been written by the authority. As my

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-23 Thread Auke van Breemen
, and thus also not about the means in reaching it. This does not exclude us to have profitted from it, looked at from the goal each of us entertains. Best, Auke van Breemen Regards, Jon S. On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:00 AM < a.bree...@chello.nl mailto:a.bree...@chello.nl > wrote: Jon Alan

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-22 Thread a . breemen
> > > interpretants in: Logic Notebook entry dated 8 oct. 1905; Ms 339 p. 253r > > > > > > > > > > > But Peirce again identifies exactly > > > > three interpretants on that manuscript page > > > > https://r

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-21 Thread a . breemen
e for the interpretant relations--"Mode of Affecting Dynamic > Interp." (S-Id), which is "By Sympathy," "By Compulsion," or "By Reason"; > "Mode of being represented by Representative Interpretant" (S-If); and "Mode > of being represen

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-20 Thread Auke van Breemen
tant > is a habit of feeling (emotional), action (energetic), or thought (logical). > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran > Laymanhttp://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt > -http://twitter.

Fwd: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Conception of God (was Categories at work within the signs)

2020-04-20 Thread a . breemen
Jon Alan, JAS: Understood, although I consider the subject matter of my previous post to be metaphysics rather than religion. As I pointed out elsewhere our representative interpretants differ considerably. For me theology is the study dealing with God. It is one of the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-19 Thread Auke van Breemen
this interpreter. But still needed the representative > > content to enter the argument, being put under the general rule of > > inference (representational interpretant) and judged on its truth value > > (normal i). It indicates a moment in a process of interpretation. > > >

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Conception of God (was Categories at work within the signs)

2020-04-19 Thread a . breemen
ly) follows > from them to complete the syllogism is that the entire universe is determined > by an object other than itself; again, something that is independent of and > unaffected by the entire universe. I suggest that this is what we call God, > echoing the Five Ways o

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-18 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon Alan, Since it proves a recurrent theme, I suggest we ought to try to find out what exactly is the meaning you attribute to the concept of God. You wrote: God as the real and independent object that determines the entire universe as a sign. -- And earlier you cited: As for scale, he

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-17 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon Alan, I decided to insert our technical semiotic discussion in your exchange with Edwina. I noticed by the way that in 1. I at the end write normal where representative is ment. You asked: Just to be clear, are you suggesting a direct correspondence between the alpha/beta/gamma EGs and

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The final interpretant

2020-04-17 Thread a . breemen
tant' (aspectual) and 'dynamical interpretant response' (typical) for disambiguation pusposes. Best regards, Auke van Breemen > Op 17 april 2020 om 3:20 schreef Jon Alan Schmidt : > > Edwina, List: > > It should go without saying for all my posts, but the foll

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-16 Thread a . breemen
stances; namely, in the ultimate > > > > > > > opinion after infinite inquiry by an infinite community. This > > > > > > > indeed does not entail that it i

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-16 Thread a . breemen
ical object or interpretant, and mode of presentation for the > > > > > > immediate object or interpretant; in each case belonging to one of > > > > > > three universes--possibles, existents, or n

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-15 Thread a . breemen
t; > > Laymanhttp://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt > > > > -http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 6:03 PM < a.bree...@chello.nl > > > >

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-14 Thread a . breemen
s. And, I mean this in a very real sense. It was not just a > > joke that Peirce also wrote: we have to choose between mamon and god. At > > most, it is our duty to find the final interpretant, it is not an > > inescapable end. Nature of ...? What means nature here? W

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-14 Thread a . breemen
retant, it is not an inescapable end. Nature of ...? What means nature here? Without nature and with normal instead of final, I could consider to agree. But then we are only at the level of the legisign aspect ( the involved sign aspects included of course) or, in other wor

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-14 Thread a . breemen
t means nature here? Without nature and > > with normal instead of final, I could consider to agree. But then we are > > only at the level of the legisign aspect ( the involved sign aspects > > included of course) or, in other words, dealing with habits of > > interpretation. > > >

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Categories at work within the signs

2020-04-13 Thread a . breemen
nature and with normal instead of final, I could consider to agree. But then we are only at the level of the legisign aspect ( the involved sign aspects included of course) or, in other words, dealing with habits of interpretation. Best regards, Auke van Breemen > Op 14 april 2020 om 0

Re: Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Brief report on the pandemic from a Peircean triadic perspective by Fernando Zalamea

2020-04-10 Thread Auke van Breemen
diate Interpretant is in a > mode of 1ns; the next is 2ns - and then, using its knowledge base within the > Representamen, the Final Interpretant in a mode of 3ns. But these are not > linear; they are 'experiences' so to speak and more complex. > >

Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Brief report on the pandemic from a Peircean triadic perspective by Fernando Zalamea

2020-04-09 Thread Auke van Breemen
ed > > > interactive population [ie, individuals interacting]; or 3-3 [Thirdness > > > operating in a mode of Thirdness] - which is pure ideology detached from > > > a population - well, I think we could analyze such a framework. Not easy > > > of course.

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Brief report on the pandemic from a Peircean triadic perspective by Fernando Zalamea

2020-04-08 Thread a . breemen
d not deal with the categories in this way; instead, it > simply too each category 'in itself' and judged how it would operate as the > guiding principle of a society. I disagree with such a tactic for the reasons > I already gave. > > Edwina > > > >

Fwd: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Brief report on the pandemic from a Peircean triadic perspective by Fernando Zalamea

2020-04-07 Thread a . breemen
g that once the cirsis is > resolved. I symphatize with that. > > Kind regards, > > Auke van Breemen > > > > Op 7 april 2020 om 14:44 schreef Edwina Taborsky : > > > > > > > > I disagree completely with this polit

Fwd: Re: Fwd: [PEIRCE-L] Re: The Difference That Makes A Difference That Peirce Makes

2019-10-21 Thread a . breemen
, and taking our fallible immediate object of peirce's appraoch conceived as a dynamical object as our utopia. best, Auke van Breemen Op 21 oktober 2019 om 14:26 schreef Edwina Taborsky : - Original Message - From: Edwina Taborsky tabor...@primus.ca mailto:tabor...@primus.ca

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The pragmatics of Peirce .. and its importance

2019-04-02 Thread Auke van Breemen
and “they can usually accept lower-level facts without creating any conflict”. Hope this is more clearly stated. Best, Auke van Breemen Van: Gary Richmond Verzonden: maandag 1 april 2019 21:11 Aan: Peirce-L Onderwerp: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The pragmatics of Peirce .. and its importance Auke

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The pragmatics of Peirce .. and its importance

2019-04-01 Thread Auke van Breemen
ssential. Best, Gary Gary Richmond Philosophy and Critical Thinking Communication Studies LaGuardia College of the City University of New York On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 11:43 AM Auke van Breemen mailto:a.bree...@chello.nl> > wrote: Dan, Edwina, List, I agree

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The pragmatics of Peirce .. and its importance

2019-03-31 Thread Auke van Breemen
On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 11:43 AM Auke van Breemen mailto:a.bree...@chello.nl> > wrote: Dan, Edwina, List, I agree with Dan and Edwina with an however in favor of work on the semiotic engine and its make up in the technical terms that shy off the general public. Since I started anal

RE: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The pragmatics of Peirce .. and its importance

2019-03-30 Thread Auke van Breemen
uke Edwina On Sat 30/03/19 11:43 AM , "Auke van Breemen" a.bree...@chello.nl <mailto:a.bree...@chello.nl> sent: Dan, Edwina, List, I agree with Dan and Edwina with an however in favor of work on the semiotic engine and its make up in the technical terms that shy off the

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The pragmatics of Peirce .. and its importance

2019-03-30 Thread Auke van Breemen
Dan, Edwina, List, I agree with Dan and Edwina with an however in favor of work on the semiotic engine and its make up in the technical terms that shy off the general public. Since I started analyzing design processes of artist in the late 80’íes I tried to combine an empirical bend with

RE: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The danger of destroying Peirce's semeiotic (was Ambiguities...

2019-03-29 Thread Auke van Breemen
Jon, List, Gary already did a great job in furnishing arguments in favor of keeping in mind, that talk about signs of course can be done shorthand, but that it is wise to keep in mind the other relata, if the focus is on one of them. Jon, I do not know where your idea comes form, i.e.

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The danger of destroying Peirce's semeiotic (was Ambiguities...

2019-03-28 Thread Auke van Breemen
John, List, Regarding: JAS > Drawing attention to something actual is denoting that Object, which > is the function of an Index (EP 2:306-307; 1904); and a Rheme > obviously can be an Index, so it is false that a Rheme "can refer only > to possible objects." No. A rheme is never an index. I

RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-10 Thread Auke van Breemen
date for a normative import would be esthetics, but then we already are contemplating the sign in relation to a possible interpreter, hence an interpretant thought. I think it is this Gary F. is thinking about. Best, Auke van Breemen Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansa

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Imitation as pragmatism and solution to entropy problem

2019-02-21 Thread Auke van Breemen
d the lack of an ability for compassion. With both I disagree. First task is to get an interest for what you want to make clear. And, because of the variation, the decision taker must have attention for the traits of the specific subject (s)he is judging. I think both are interrelated. Best, Auke v

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Imitation as pragmatism and solution to entropy problem

2019-02-21 Thread Auke van Breemen
: Is there a difference in the way you try to establish contact and teach that depends on the hypothesis you work with? Case 1: it is a problem with the imagination or mimicking of action Case 2: it is a problem with the directing of attention Best, Auke van Breemen Van: Jerry Rhee

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Imitation as pragmatism and solution to entropy problem

2019-02-20 Thread Auke van Breemen
. The adaptability to circumstances is seriously hindered in this way. And indeed, as you state, it appears as an inability to mimic social wished behavior. Until, that is, one succeeds in getting attention for the social problems, in that case a social scientist may be the result. Best, Auke van Breemen

RE: RE: Re: [PEIRCE-L] was EGs and Phaneroscopy

2019-02-18 Thread Auke van Breemen
go together with a plan for action that delivers a solution. Best, Auke van Breemen Van: Edwina Taborsky Verzonden: zondag 17 februari 2019 17:06 Aan: tabor...@primus.ca; 'Peirce-L' ; 'Gary Richmond' ; Auke van Breemen Onderwerp: Re: RE: Re: [PEIRCE-L] was EGs and Phaneroscopy

RE: Re: [PEIRCE-L] was EGs and Phaneroscopy

2019-02-17 Thread Auke van Breemen
Edwina, list, E wrote: I agree and am puzzled by the strong effort of some to develop an isolate framework of the work of Peirce - a particular framework based around a purely intellectual outline of interactions and strict terminological definitions which in my opinion both utterly miss

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