RE: Tape Backup

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Unix already had the ability to mount tape devices as
filesystems
using the block device drivers ages ago. (V6 and probably
eariler)

write your 512 byte blocks
out onto the tape, mkfs (newfs now adays) your filesystem,
and mount it.
Not used - too slow to access because of the tape motion and
unreliable,
tape does not always skew up correctly as it was never
designed for random access like disk, its really a linear
device.
Sort of write it, then read only, and rewrite the entire
thing to update it.

You can seek to a block, read it,
seek back, write it and potentially clobber the records on
the tape
before or after this position by writing the new block
slightly off
from where it was previously written Plus - a little wear
after time,
stretch the tape, and your filesystem is hosed, SO NOT
advised to use this way.

Buy a disk and back it up to tape.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken
Rossman
>  Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 10:27 AM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: Tape Backup
>
>
>  On Thursday, October 23, 2003, at 10:18 AM, Nick Lindsell
wrote:
>  >> The main reason is that, in order to do this you
really need a
>  >> high-speed random access device.  Tape drives are
neither high
>  >> speed (at least not the speed you really need) nor are
they
>  >> random access (they are sequential access).
>  >>
>  >> Perhaps someone has written a tape driver that will
end up calling
>  >> me a liar on this point, but in general, tape is not
the right
>  >> hardware paradigm to start with to make a good file
system.
>  >
>  > I have seen such a thing - a friend of mine (Gary
Howland, sadly
>  > deceased) wrote such a driver. It worked well enough to
play Doom
>  > off it. :)
>
>  You see?  In the world of Linux, I am loathe these days
to ever say
>  that something doesn't exist or can't exist -- someone
out there has
>  probably already written it.  :-)
>
>  > This was many years ago and was DOS only - as I recall
he made a
>  > meta index at the front of the tape which allowed to
to
>  seek directly
>  > to the block where the required file was located.
>
>  This is (more or less) how Unix "dump" format tapes work
too -- table
>  of contents at the head of the tape.  This is a special
format geared
>  to be able to do this.  I was answering the general
question
>  of whether
>  one could "mount" any arbitrary tape as a file system.
Programs that
>  use formats like the unix "dump" format and probably the
one
>  that does
>  the same for DOS, use memory as a cache for the pieces
that
>  really need
>  to be more random access for any kind of performance.
>
>  > And no, I'm not calling you a liar.
>
>  Whew!  :-)
>
>
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RE: rarpd & netmask

[Kenneth Goodwin]

I dont really understand the true nature of your problem,
you are not being clear.

But based on some assumptions -

ARPD translates IP addresses into MAC Addresses
RARPD translates MAC Addresses into IP Addresses.

They both use the same IP-ARP table in the kernel and both
get
their answers from the target Host system.
You ask for the Mac address associated with a certain IP
address,
ARPD broadcasts a request out
on your local network for the system with that IP address to
return
it's mac address. RARPD
does the reverse It might have been updated to also fetch
the associated subnet mask.
So they are only going to return what the actual host system
supplies.

All your affected systems might have to be upgraded to a
TCP/IP version that
supports IP Classless as that will always provide the true
subnet mask
as part of the packet header. I am presuming they fixed
ARP/RARP
to have this feature when they added in classless
capabilities
into the TCP/IP protocols The latest ARP table should
provide an entry for
storing the mask as well which will give you the proper
reply.
I would suspect that at least some of your systems are
running only "Classed"
versions of the original IP stack and are not up to the
Classless level
of code which added subnet masks.

I am assuming your network is a subnetted class B which uses
a Class C subnet mask
to split apart the Class B address range into multiple Class
C subnets.
You have the subnet mask set properly on each machine to a
Class C subnet mask,
but when you RARP the table, you get back the default Class
B subnet mask instead of the
assigned Class B. This means the source is either not
sending a subnet mask and your local
systems is using the default mask for a Class B or your
linux system does not have
a Classless version of the ARP suite.

It sounds like you might be trying to delete an entry from
the RARP/ARP table


>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Julie
Xu
>  Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:54 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: rarpd & netmask
>
>
>  Greeting,
>
>  can rarpd give a remove install client ip address with
netmask?
>
>  I seems have problem with netmask because the ip address
is
>  class B and I
>  need a class C netmask. Is any way to fix this problem?
>
>  Any comments will be appreciated
>
>  Thanks in advance
>
>
>  Julie Xu
>
>  Data Communication Team
>  Information Technology Directorate
>  University of Western Sydney
>  Locked Bag 1797
>  Penrith South DC  NSW  1797
>
>
>
>
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RE: [SUMMARY] NFS between Linux and Solaris

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason
Dixon
>  Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:23 PM
>  To: Red Hat Mailing List
>  Subject: [SUMMARY] NFS between Linux and Solaris
>
>
>  Well, I wish I could say I have an authoritative answer
on
>  what caused
>  it, but I can no longer reproduce the problem.  I've
tried the same
>  thing with the following mount options, all of which work
fine:
>
>  vers=2,proto=udp
>  vers=3,proto=udp
>  vers=3
>  vers=3,proto=udp,noac
>  (no options)
>
>  At this point, I have to assume some other system and/or
>  network anomoly
>  was causing the problem.  If I can reproduce and resolve
the
>  symptoms,
>  I'll re-summarize.
>
>  -J.
>
>  On Wed, 2003-10-22 at 15:20, Jason Dixon wrote:
>  > Hi folks-
>  >
>  > My apologies if this is out there somewhere, but I've
>  googled this to
>  > death without finding a satisfactory answer.  I'm
>  attempting to tar copy
>  > a large repository (actually, the RHAS3.0 iso images)
from
>  a Linux NFS
>  > server to a Solaris NFS client.  At various intervals,
the transfer
>  > invariably dies with a "file not found" error.  The
cause
>  of this error
>  > can be explained by the sudden disappearance of
directories in the
>  > top-level of the exported share.
>  >
>  > Remounting the share causes the directories (and
>  everything recursive
>  > therein) to reappear, but the problem reoccurs the next
>  time I try the
>  > transfer.  I've tried a number of different flags, up
to
>  and including
>  > all of the following:
>  >
>  > vers=2,proto=udp,ro,noac
>  >
>  > Unfortunately, there's been no effect.  Has anyone run
>  into this?  Is it
>  > a known incompatibility between NFS implementations?
The
>  problem is
>  > easily reproducible.  The server is running Red Hat
>  Advanced Server 2.1
>  > Update 2 on a DL380.  The client is running Solaris 8
on
>  an E250.  Both
>  > servers, while on separate VLANs, are in the same
general
>  networking
>  > "vicinity".  Any ideas/solutions will be greatly
appreciated.
>  >
>  > TIA,
>  --
>  Jason Dixon, RHCE
>  DixonGroup Consulting
>  http://www.dixongroup.net
>

There is one thing wrong on redhat 7.1 that just bit me
yesterday.
maybe it is related to what is happening to you
might still be an unknown bug in the later releases.
At least worth a moments thought in terms of your situation.

I have Compaq proliants and redhat 7.1 (and later?) uses the
TLAN ethernet
driver on these systems.

This 7.1 system on an internal network that has not been
patched since the install
(yes, bad admin, bad admin, but its due for its REDHAT 9.0
upgrade)
deadlocked the ethernet interface after I started
both INBOUND and an OUTBOUND FTP sessions that pushed large
files
(like your NFS transfers)
into and off of the system. ISO images for Informix -
multiple 400K files.

We also had a large NFS transfer inbound from SUN solaris
2.6 server.
So the ethernet driver and software layer was very busy,
saturated in fact.

no sign of a resource problem on the box. netstat or
otherwise.

looks like I have a driver and/or TCP/IP software layer
bug to be patched. Sounds somewhat similiarlike what is
happening to you as well.
maybe it is not an NFS problem but an issue with the
underlying
network stack.

You are fine as long as traffic stays below some magic
threshold.
Push the interface past that point and weird stuff starts to
happen
until you get total failure usually requiring a reboot or
maybe
an interface reset via ifconfig.

The symptoms I got (see dmesg - /var/log/messages output if
it happens again)
were a kernel declaration  that the link had failed, it then
started
an endless loop of auto-negoitiation with the switch. Could
not seem to resync
even after i unplugged the cable for a few minutes. needed
to reboot to fix.

(I will have to lock those ports to 100/full someday soon
and turn off auto.)

You might be approaching that magic threshold with what you
are doing and causing
different symptoms (directory vanishing) than what i am
seeing here.



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RE: RH 9 install issue

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Smartstart? , must be a compaq proliant?

There are known issues with Compaq and Redhat, they keep
removing
from random releases the data files that are needed to deal
with the differences
between the way compaq does things hardware wise and the
rest of the planet.
had the same problems with 6.1, 7.2, 8.0, and 9.0. I think
it is a ploy to sell
you new compaq hardware. compaq provides the software to
redhat and compaq
certifies it but only for their latest systems. I have a ton
of compaq proliant here.
Not buying any more cause it is just to difficult to deal
with it's issues with Linux.

I got an errata cdrom from Redhat with the missing driver
support files for 6.1.
Contact REDHAT support, they should be able to point you at
the download file that you use
to boot redhat 9.0 that has the missing files as well.

Go plain text (or try beating it to death with the
installer) and then patch it
and fix the video later. check compaq's (HP.com) website
support area for redhat downloads.

redhat 9.0 installed flawlessly on two P3 proliant 1.4 GHZ
dual cpu system , DL320 i think,
had to try the installation 8 times on a a P3-600 1600
before I got it past the video hang
still some other problems. Different video chips for
starters.

tried to disable on board video and put in a new ATI RAGE
video card , followed
all the Redhat and compaq instructions for doing so
including trying all the PCI slots
and disabling the onboard. Never could get it to switch to
the new slotted card.
Googled the planet as well for answers.. another
unsolved mystery.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Go,
Jeffrey
>  Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:17 PM
>  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>  Subject: RE: RH 9 install issue
>
>
>  It was using windows 2000 at one time with no issues...i
had
>  already re-configured the machine with SmartStart to be
sure...
>
>  The monitor itself is fine..i can use it to view other
machine...
>
>  The server is usually attached to a KVM solution, but
when I
>  am installing, I am connected directly to the server...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: salvatore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 1:10 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: RH 9 install issue
>
>  > When Anaconda runs, it hangs after the "probe video
monitor"
>  > status when installing.
>  > I have tried "linux lowres" and "linux 1024x768"
options on boot
>  > and also the text install to no avail..
>  >
>  > Any  assistance is appreciated.
>
>  Perhaps the hardware is bad (monitor itself, monitor
cable,
>  et cetera).
>  Have you tried it with a different one?  Or is this in a
>  rack attached to a
>  KVM?
>
>  .salvatore
>  http://www.sienar.org/
>  http://www.palmisanonet.com/
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
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>
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RE: Mail is not working (any way to send message when daemon is down)

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Cohen
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 6:17 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Mail is not working (any way to send message
when daemon is down)




Actually,
You are wrong.. You can send mail w/o the sendmail daemon
running.
Your mail client calls sendmail to deliver the mail, it
doesn't need to connect to a daemon..
You run the daemon to accept incoming mail. ie. Keep the
smtp port open to accept mail.
Depending on the client ofcourse..
Mutt for instance isn't a mta, its just a client that calls
sendmail
Pine has its own mta in it.
As for smtp, there are a number of light smtp programs out
there, just search for them.
-Mark

===
HTML FOrmat deleted - please dont post in HTML
==

Then pine or a MUA with a configurable interface to a
lightweight SMTP MTA  is what he should use,
the problem here is why is sendmail crashing in the first
place.
It is always possible that if he uses a  MUA that calls
sendmail for outbound and there is something
wrong with his setup
then he may also fail to send mail if the MUA side of
sendmail also has the same
problem and crashes as well.

hence, he should use something other than sendmail as a MTA
and have it connect
to a sendmail hub/relay daemon on a different server.


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RE: Mail is not working (any way to send message when daemon is down)

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris
W. Parker
>  Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 6:18 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Mail is not working (any way to send message

>  when daemon is
>  down)
>  
>  
>  Dali Islam 
>  on Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:33 PM said:
>  
>  > Anyway, anyone knows how to send/relay a message only
>  > on the root login session when a service/daemon is
>  > down. Like in this case my sendmail was down.
>  
>  Can a car be driven if the motor isn't on? Can you make
Pepsi without
>  the ingredients?
>  
>  You may be able to send mail with something OTHER than 
>  sendmail, but I
>  don't know how. And to answer your question directly, no
you 
>  cannot send
>  mail via sendmail if the sendmail daemon is not running.
>  
>  
>  chris.
>  
>  p.s. someone correct me if i am wrong!! thanks!


It would take a Mail user Agent with a built in SMTP
interface (perhaps one of the SMTP enabled PERL modules)
and then you point it at a sendmail server on another
machine.
The client does not have to point at a LOCAL sendmail server
to send mail,
you just need a client that can be configured to  SMTP
off-host. 

Just need a MUA where you configure the ip address of the
SMTP server, like MS mail/Outlook. 
<>

RE: Daemon restart by non-root user

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Srini
Amble
>  Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 5:53 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Daemon restart by non-root user
>
>
>  I have a daemon which is started automatically during the
>  system boot-up
>  (it is in /etc/rc.d/init.d). During the life of the
daemon users can
>  change the configuration because of which the daemon will
have to be
>  restarted. All processes which are part of Daemon are
owned
>  by root and
>  hence non-root users cannot kill and consequently restart
fails. Can
>  anyone suggest a way to handle this? I am using RH7.2 for
>  those who care.
>
>  Thanks for all the help
>
>  Srini

Presuming you have access to source code..

have the daemon process check the modify time on the config
file or record
iF it changed since the last time it looked or booted, then
have the daemon reread the file
and reset itself.

OR Move it from an RC based process to an INIT run process
(inittab and have it exit and auto restart
upon config file changes.


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RE: Prefered backup method?

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  I'll step back in here since people seem to want to slam
>  tape.  I happen
>  to manage systems in a medium-size enterprise.  One
server alone has
>  3.5TB of storage.  For that server, we take weekly full
>  backups and plan
>  to keep (most systems are already there but this one
isn't
>  yet) weekly
>  full backups with 4 generations, monthly full backups
with
>  probably 12
>  generations, and several years of annuals. We're looking
at least 15
>  copies of 3.5TB of data.  This data is actually being
backed over the
>  network to a tape library in another building.  If you
can
>  show me how
>  to keep 52GB of offsite data and quickly swap disk drives
every week
>  without any application downtime, and do it all for less
>  than the cost
>  of tape, I'll buy you a beer the next time you're in my
neck of the
>  woods.  Using Rodolfo's estimate of 1.3TB costing 6K,
backing up just
>  this server would cost about $240K.  At 200GB per tape,
this requires
>  265 tapes.  At $65 per tape, we're eating up $17K in tape
costs.
>

we use tape as well (G-F-S backups) and it has it's good as
well as bad points, including jamming in the
tape drive and requiring a system reboot to fix the issue
(an ouch in my 7X24X365 world).

with the advent of recordable 4GB DVD drives and the ability
to setup Jukebox recorders
to use them, DVD may be on its way to beoming a viable
alternative to magnetic tape
as least for longer term backups (mag tape for your dailies
and DVD for the Monthlys)
Prices should continue to decline over the next two years
while record speeds increase.
At about $1.00 or less per raw disk in bulk, it is also cost
effective for longer term retention
requirements.  Anyone playing around with DVD recordable for
backups now?

They were playing around with the concept of R/W Optical
tape for TB levels of storgae back in
the 14 inch optical platter days, but I have
not heard anything about that Tech in years, so I guess it
has been tabled for the near future.
You might want to google on Optical Tape...


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RE: Prefered backup method?

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  NAS is short for Network Attached Storage.  So NAS-es
would
>  be "Network
>  Attached Storages" which doesn't sound right :-).  How
about
>  NAS arrays
>  or NAS appliances or NAS subsystems?
>
>  --
>  Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
>  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program

[A] NASS - for Network Attached Storage System
whose plural would be Network Attached Storage Systems
or NASS for short,  GOTO [A]

[B] MNAS - for Massive Network Attached Storage - meaning
"Hey Dude - I got More than one of these here Dang NAS
boxen"


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RE: PDF Converter on Linux/Redhat

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Hal
Burgiss
>  Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:06 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: PDF Converter on Linux/Redhat
>
>
>  On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 09:18:25AM -0400, Kenneth Goodwin
wrote:
>  >
>  > MS Word will also convert most of the important stuff.
>
>  Let's see ... if am not familiar with that one. How do
you
>  script that
>  so it integrates with Apache and automatically converts
>  documents from
>  one type to another?

Well first of all, you are out of context here,
that was in response to the statement that there were
no Windows based programs that did ANY TO ANY file
conversions.

The definite one, available on most platforms, is Data
Junction
and it can be scripted to convert to/from most anything and
run from a shell
on any *NIX platform. But really clever people, like me, can
actually get WORD to do
this in it's limited fashion in an automated way using the
proper tools.
It is real slow so I dont recommend it at all, but it can be
done.

You can always add the calls to your PERL CGI-BIN functions
to call the
underlying data conversion scripts or you can run it as a
backend process
scanning a directory tree and processing and moving the
files from an inbound to an outbound
directory methodology. There are alot of tools out there to
achieve this.
Most for *nix systems have already been mentioned. You
define a processing methodology,
craft the scripts to implement the workflow calling the
underlying programs to do the work.
Settle on a naming convention - .txt, .ps, .pdf, .asc, .doc
for your files and you can use
that to drive the process correctly.


In terms of Web Site, the person in question was not looking
for an automated
on the fly to/from conversion utility. As Far as I
understood it, he wanted a automated system that
would convert any file format into a PDF so his web site
could display it in
one standard format, namely PDF. Adobe Distiller Server
provides that functionality
as an Off the shelf solution, but you can craft up the
equivalent with Perl or Shell wrappers
around other functions and a cron based control script.

If you want On the fly, you should look into XML based
systems. There is a great deal of freeware
in that area for converting ANYthing into XML and back
again. SoftwareAG has entire document
database based on that code that does exactly that.


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RE: fax server recommendation

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bret
Hughes
>  Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:05 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: fax server recommendation
>
>
>  On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 11:31, Noah wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > can somebody recommend a fax server program out there?
>  > perhaps something opensource by chance?
>  >
>
>  I help setup hylafax at my brother's office and it has
been
>  jamming ever
>  since.  Absolutely trouble free.
>
>  Bret
I use Hylafax as well for transmitting a great deal
of daily multi page reports and it has been trouble free.
Only thing I can not get to work, must be a code bug, is the
retry
times for failed faxes. I set them as I wanted them to be
using the
proper Hylafax commands, but even after restarting
everything
it still follows the defaults. The version is about a year
old so there
may be a later release that fixes that issue. Its either a
code bug or
I am overlooking something simple, but undocumented at
Hylafax.org.


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RE: PDF Converter on Linux/Redhat

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  On Tuesday 16 September 2003 18:59, Reuben D. Budiardja
>  wrote this in an
>  attempt to be witty or informative:
>  
>  > I doubt also there is a single application that can
>  convert all kind
>  > of file under Windows.

It's called  Data Junction. Converts anything to anything
else
based on a data conversion wheel. Runs on multiple OS's

MS Word will also convert most of the important stuff.

>
>  I wouldn't. It's the most programmed for platform (at
least
>  commercially). It's probably an app with a lot of
plugins. Hehe.
>  
>  - --
>  Wielder of the mighty +1 LARTsaber of Unsubscribe
>  Instructions At End of
>  Message, the +3 Clue-by-Four of No Attachments to a
Mailing List, and
>  the -4 Shield of No Spell Checker.
>  http://joseph-a-nagy-jr.homelinux.org
http://mc-luug.homelinux.org/
>


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RE: PDF Converter on Linux/Redhat

[Kenneth Goodwin]

For a couple of thousand bucks or so, it's a per user
license, you can always
use Acrobat Distiller Server software to convert Postscript
to pdf and it
runs on Solaris, LINUX, and Windows and has the directory
autoscanner you seek. I am currently running it on WinNT,
plan to move it to Linux or Solaris
in the near future. It works the way you want it to, at
least under windows.
I briefly checked the Sun/Linux doc, it can run as a
pipeline filter as well.
If all else fails, have the web app drop the files into an
incoming directory
and have a cron script scan the directory for aged files and
process them accordingly
to an outgoing directory. You  can probably craft something
up along the same lines
with scripts and ps2pdf instead of using Distiller

My Windows Distiller setup is one master distiller
directory, a sub directory for each user
on the system and one IN and OUT subfolders under each user
directory. The users
pop their PS files into the IN folder, distiller scans all
the user IN folders every  15 seconds
and pumps out the PDF files for each IN folder entry into
the OUT folder.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of James
Pifer
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:02 PM
>  To: RedHat List
>  Subject: RE: PDF Converter on Linux/Redhat
>
>
>  Sorry for the late delay. Lost my d*** internet
connection. Anyway...
>
>  I got a little more information. The web application
sticks
>  files in a
>  directory that need to be converted, like a before
directory
>  . So I need
>  a converter to periodically check that directory, convert
>  the files, and
>  stick them in another directory, like an after directory.
>
>  The application itself does not call a printer or print
driver.
>  Unfortunately it's not something that I could easily
change either.
>
>  Sorry for the lack of details initially.
>
>  Thanks,
>  James
>
>
>  On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 17:03, Agrawal, Manish wrote:
>  > Openoffice will do it too.
>  >
>  > Manish
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: James Pifer
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:38 PM
>  > To: RedHat List
>  > Subject: PDF Converter on Linux/Redhat
>  >
>  > Sorry if this has been asked before. I'm looking for a
PDF
>  converter
>  > that will run on Linux for a web application. I did
some
>  googling and
>  > found some that did specific things, like postscript to
>  PDF, but not
>  > enough.
>  >
>  > There are some apps that run on Windoze that will
convert
>  html, word
>  > docs, excel docs, text files, JPG,  etc to PDF. I'm
trying
>  to find one
>  > that will do these conversions on a Linux machine or
else
>  I'm going to
>  > be stuck running Windoze.
>  >
>  > Any help is appreciated. Thanks,
>  > James
>  >
>  >
>  > --
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>  > unsubscribe
>  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>  >
>
>
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RE: NCD w/ Linux

[Kenneth Goodwin]

its proprietary software under license from NCD that runs
the terminal -
try EBAY, the dude that sold you the unit or a google search
of the terminal to find
a local high volume supplier who might cut you a break on
the price
considering they are basically a dead product at this
time


>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cosmo
Lee
>  Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:36 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: NCD w/ Linux
>
>
>  RH 9 Intel
>
>  I just got an NCD Explora X Terminal from Ebay - a
whopping
>  $15 for the
>  unit.  I wanted to experiment using RH as a platform for
>  learning this
>  technology.
>
>  I figured I'd have a cheap X-Terminal solution - I'm new
to this.
>  However, to my dismay, I've found that I've got to get
the NcdWare
>  software in order to run this unit.
>
>  The problem is that the software has a whopping $995 list
price!
>
>  Does anybody have any ideas where I can get this stuff
cheaper, used,
>  second-hand, etc???
>
>  Thanks all.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
>  unsubscribe
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RE: sendmail blocking

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed
Wilts
>  Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 11:48 AM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: sendmail blocking
>
>
>  On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 07:53:17AM -0700, Nick White
wrote:
>  > I have a quick sendmail question.  A server sits
between
>  our internal
>  > mail server, and the external world that acts as a mail
>  receiver and
>  > relay box.  We do this using the mailertable file.  So
any mail for
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] gets forwarded to the internal
mail server.
>  >
>  > An employee has been gone for over a year now, and I am
>  seeing TONS of
>  > crap keep coming through for him, and the server is
>  sending back out
>  > NDRs for each failed attempt.
>  >
>  > How can I block messages that come through for him,
discarding them
>  > silently without sending NDRs?
>
>  I'm not sure you can, but I'm resaonably sure that this
would violate
>  the RFCs.  You're asking an RFC-compliant mailserver to
>  accept mail and
>  then quietly drop it into the bit bucket without
notifying
>  the sender?
>  Nasty, nasty...

Ed,

Since Nick has been receiving this junk email for a year now
and
his sendmail server has apparently been sending back the
required "Alice does not live here anymore" messages. Since
the remote end has failed repeatedly to cease sending the
stuff,
the RFC should be modified to require SMTP servers to send
"No such users" automatically to the POSTMASTER account for
each rejection.
This will hopefully flood their disk in time and they will
finally notice
that they have an issue. There is a limit to how long one
should be polite
when dealing with remotes that fail or refuse to listen to
returned error
messages.

Now as postmaster, I get them here
once the email has finally bounced, and I am assuming the
rest of you do as well.
So what we have here is a failure on the part of the
"sending" mail administrator
to cease the transmission of email upon receiption of such
notices.
So Nick has no choice here but to dump the stuff and
minimize his systems load
in terms of these senders who are not listening to his
returns.

Personally, I attempt to find a human at the source point to
"notify".
If that fails, I would put a ACL block for the source IP's
in my border router
and stop the SMTP conversations all together. Especially if
the source was something
I had no need to talk to in the first place, namely mass
marketing mailing lists.

I have the same issue here, but I have users that have been
gone for over four years
and I have been sending back - "No Such user" returns on the
attempts to the remote ends
for as long. They are about to make it into my new border
routers ACL.
Too many of the automated marketing lists are not monitored
and cleaned up as they should be.

Nick, you might want to use the source domain's web site to
see if you can find a human
at the sender's location to scream at. Nail the cause, not
the symptom, first if you can
manage it. Otherwise, block them at your firewall or drop
the email onto the floor.


>  One way to approach this would be to accept the mail but
write a
>  procmail rule that drops the e-mail into dev/null.
>  I believe that simply his will do it but I have not
tested it...
>
> :0
> /dev/null
>


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RE: sendmail - splitting outgoing mail to 2 recipients

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Kelerion
>  Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 9:07 AM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: sendmail - splitting outgoing mail to 2
recipients
>
>
>  I just re-read what I wrote.. lets try again :)
>
>  eg: person (a) sends an email to person (b)
>  that email goes (as usual) to person (b)
>  but also gets copied by sendmail to person (c)
>
>  there.. that sounds better :)
usual way is through an alias in the  /etc/mail/alias file.


alias bobtony   [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

email to bobtony.

You might be able to do the following, but i suspect you
might create an infinite loop.

alias   bob tony, bob



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RE: Installing RH8 on proliant800

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Try  nousb, if that fails, nodma.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Nathalie Boulos
>  Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 8:16 AM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: Installing RH8 on proliant800
>
>
>  Hello Sean,
>
>  Well i've tried "linux text" and it did the same
>  result. I tried the option "lowres" too, same thing.
>  The installer tries to probe for the monitor first.
>
>  How can i skip that probe?
>
>  Regards
>  Nathalie
>
>  --- Sean Estabrooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:34:21 -0700 (PDT)
>  > Nathalie Boulos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >
>  > > Hi everyone,
>  > >
>  > > I have a problem installing RH8 on a Compaq
>  > proliant
>  > > 800.
>  > > After I boot from CD, and whatever I put on the
>  > > "boot:" command, the system freezes after writing
>  > the
>  > > following:
>  > >
>  > > Running anaconda, the Red Hat Linux system
>  > installer -
>  > > please wait...
>  > > Probing for video card: Cirrus Logic GD543x
>  > > Probing for monitor type: Unable to probe
>  > >
>  > > I have changed 3 monitors, 3 different brands,
>  > same
>  > > result.
>  > >
>  > > is there any way not to probe for the monitor
>  > while
>  > > installing? How can i bypass this problem?
>  > >
>  >
>  > Hi Nathalie,
>  >
>  > One option is to use text mode for the install and
>  > work out
>  > your X windows issue afterward.  After booting the
>  > install
>  > CD type "linux text" to use the text rather than
>  > graphical install.
>  >
>  > Good luck,
>  > Sean
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
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>  >
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>
>  __
>  Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
software
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RE: LPIC passing percentage?

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  > From: Edward Croft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Card sorters? You had card sorters? Ok, we *may* have had
>  one, but I'm not
>  sure.

yes and damn glad of it..

>
>  Then there's my "favorite" - the time in school when my
>  short program would
>  not run, and would not run, JCL error, and it was the
only
>  time that I went
>  to the lab assistant for help...and he found the bug by
>  looking at the
>  punches...and realized that one of the two machines that
>  were kept free for
>  typos was punching *other* than what it printed

must have been a common problem as I remember that happening
too.

>  > I always wondered what happened to you old geezers. I
>  remember the whine
>
>  Uh, out of work developer/Unix/Linux sysadmin
>  
>   mark

heck if my boss wasnt such a @#$%^ and you were local to
jersey,
I'd hired you instantly cause I KNOW I would get a decent
days work out of you
instead of having to constantly chase the children here off
the Internet Playland.

Hey, h, be very quiet, I think the children have finally
dozed off to sleep

I have to remember to wake the little dears when five pm
finally arrives.
They get real cranky if they oversleep and dont get to go to
the shore over the weekend.



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RE: LPIC passing percentage?

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  Been there, done that.  Fortran IV was where it was at!
At
>  the time I
>  took my programming languages course, we took APL, Algol
and PL/1.  C
>  wasn't invented yet.  We also studied Fortran, Cobol, and
Assembler
>  (good old IBM 360 at that).

I have(had) a friend in college who was an APL freak. Used
to tell
us Fortran/Cobol jocks that he could write any program in
One line of code.
did some Snobol once, How about that old standard for report
writers
before CrystaL Reports - RPG and RPG-2

>  Don't forget about the original ASCII art though - a box
of
>  punch cards
>  to produce two pages out output, with many of the lines
>  overstruck 3-5
>  times.  I had some beauties.  You'd call the computer
room
>  and ask them
>  to change the ribbon in the printer, and then run your
deck through.
>  The operators sure knew what was happening by the sound
the printers
>  made, and would cuss your name...  I kept a few boxes of
>  these until it
>  I moved in 1990 and just couldn't justify hanging on to
them
>   any more.
>  I had them for over 10 years though.

I think I still may have a reel of tape with those images on
them somewhere.
The "Enterprise" and Spock images were my personal
favorites.

>  I've booted 11/70s so many times I'm sure I could walk up
to
>  one today
>  and toggle the switches for the boot loader just by
instinct.

heck, I used to debug OS code problems by single stepping
those
pretty little LEDS through the Binary instruction set. try
and do that
on a PC... source level debuggers, phewey! real
compsci-er's debug in
bit fields in RAM in real time. (all right, i confess,
that is stretching things a wee bit)

>  You ain't lived until you've written the overlay code for
>  RSX-11M.  Pick
>  which libraries are in memory at any one time - you've
only
>  got 64K to
>  work with.
>
>  I've worked with 800bpi tapes, spent 250K for a pair of
tri-density
>  (800/1600/6250) tape drives, etc.

I remember RSX11-M , never did anything in it, it sat on the
shelf as
endless boxes of paper tapes. We were running that new
fangled
UNIX operating system.

>
>  Them were the good old days, when you dealt with techs
that
>  had to know
>  more than just which board to swap.  I still judge a
tech's
>  competence
>  these days by how old he (and very rarely she) is.

Remember when they actually carried in and used an
Oscilloscope?

>
>  Those of you complaing about bandwidth should remember
the
>  early days.
>  300baud acoustic modems on a Silent 700 terminal with
>  thermal paper. At
>  my first job, we paid 60 cents per 1000 characters
transmitted or
>  received.  Those charges could really add up!
>

Remember how excited you were when 1200 Baud modems were
announced?
what DID THEY COST BACK THEN, like $2-3 GRAND each?

I remember setting up inter-office communications using 2400
baud analog
modems that were as big as todays PC's over dedicated voice
circuits
tied to Timeplex Asynch Mux banks to run DEC VT100 terminal
connections
between our remote offices and the main office. 12 terminals
running at 120 characters
per second if they each took turns and overlapped right. The
users were all
excited when we upgraded the link to 9600 baud modems a few
years later.

Hayes started to take off as a company back then and became
KING of MODEMS for
quite a while. I remember running UUCP over Telebit
Trailblazer modems
for NETNEWS in a point to Point UUCP "HoneyDanBer" dialup
network.

from Darpa to Arpa to Internet in what about 30 years?


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RE: LPIC passing percentage?

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 09:49, Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
>  > 
>
>  > Dropping your first punch card deck on the floor and
having
>  > to manually
>  > resort the entire deck of 500 cards because you did not
>  
>  ROTFLMAOPMP, Kenneth, I give up, you win! you win!
>  Sheesh.
>  I remember Hollerith cards but fortunately never had to
deal
>  with them
>  except to learn about them just in case. Glad I missed
that, though I
>  still had to wait for the operator to release my compile
>  jobs on an HP.
>  I remember the most infuriating thing back in the old
days of
>  programming, when it took half a day to compile, was
missing
>  that f
>  '.' in COBOL.
>  I always wondered what happened to you old geezers. I
>  remember the whine
>  of an RA60 pack winding up. Loading files from mag tape.
>  Hell, the first
>  program I wrote was on a VIC 20. Imagine how concise you
had
>  to program
>  back then. Today they are very sloppy. They just tell you
>  that you need
>  a bigger machine.

It just goes to show you how REALLY far we have come in such
a short time.

Old geezer, Hell NO Ed, I am only 47 and barely into my
prime.
I just started real early at age 8, barely out of diapers.
Dad was a big wheel at the bank, took his brightest boy into
the shop one
day for a visit (banks - how boring...), got that mandatory
gee whiz tour
of the data center, caught one
look at those big machines with the flashing lights and
spinning reels of tape
and feel in love.(sort of) Read everything available
on those computer gizmos from that point on . flash
forward to A progressive high school
district with a
PDP 8e and a IBM 1130. The PDP8e was paper tape loaded for
even the OS
NO Disk, very little ram and 8 Teletype TTY terminals.
The 1130 - punch cards and hard disk cartridge and god yes -
a Drum based Line printer
(they used it for the school district records processing as
well)

As a freshman, I had to get up at 5AM, get to my high school
by 6AM,
waddle down pitch dark hallways, open my locker in the dark,
grab the compsci
stuff and catch a bus to the other high school for a 7-8am
class. I whipped
through the course work for the class in two weeks and then
I wrote computer games
the rest of the time in Basic for this PDP. They were kinda
of lame by todays standards
and based on the TV shows of the Day that I had to
reload into the PDP via Paper Tape before I could run them.
But I would have gone through hell and back to get my hands
on a computer to play with.

Flash forward a few more years and I am at a high tech
college working on
a Xerox Sigma 9 Main Frame, Perkin Elmer Interdata 8-32.
Learning all the standard
comp sci stuff. Meet my first "Production PC", the Altair,
at a ACM  computer club meeting
at the college. One day a buddy of mine drags me over to the
"Computer
Graphics Laboratory" where he works as an operator. They
hire me part time
as a op/prog and I spend the next 3 years working (fulltime)
with and in awe of such
Geniuses (when they were just out of college to boot) as
Dr. Edwin Catmull, Dr. Alvy Ray Smith
(both now of PIXAR systems and formerly with Lucasfilm - Toy
Story)
Dr. James Clark for a summer, Tom Duff, now of Bell Labs,
(Google on "Duff's Device")
and a cast of others of their caliber
in a Lab specializing in bleedy edge computer graphics
animation.
It's were I found out that there were real programmer
friendly systems like UNIX,
worked on the first production VAX 11-780, and watched a
computer controlled 4 inch
reel to reel
video tape recorder (the IVC 9000) do single frame recording
on
magnetic tape. You write time-code on the tape end to end,
your PDP11-70 goes into dedicated real-time mode for
controlling the IVR,l
you rewind the tape back a bit to get a running start,
You start playback mode, you hit the right time-code value
and then pop the
record button on for a second and it recorded (hopefully)
what was in the attached frame buffer. Video disk recorders
were just
coming out then and were a good 6 figures at that time.

DAMN I miss those days!!! Wasn't LIFE just grand and
exciting back then ED?
When only a few of us had PC's and the DARPA-NET wasnt
loaded down with SPAM.
Writing tight little code was a real art done by really
talented people working
in darken halls of magic and awe. We were worshipped and
feared as Gods Unto Our Own Right.

:=} :=} :=} :=}

ALL break into a chorus of
"Those Were The Days, My Friend, We Thought They'd Never
End"



I would like to see those code jockeys at Microsoft rewrite
Office 2000 to run
in a 64 KB split I and D space system like my old PDP 11-70
64K BYTES for instructions, 64K for data and maybe if you
got the UNIX V6
kernel code to behave you could enable and get I-Code leap
frog to work right
and increase your I-code space
infinitely. I played with it because UN

RE: LPIC passing percentage?

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 13:41, Edward Croft wrote:
>  > Kevin, you want me to hold him down while you thwack
him! :-P
>  > I started in '83 on a Kaypro II, then 85 switched to
>  Digital VAX, then
>  > DG, and so on and so forth
>  > Anybody remember soldering together HeathKit PCs?
>  >
>
>  Not the PC, but some of the test equipment. I still have
a VTVM.
>
>  The first computer I worked on was analog. It was a tube
>  driven synchro
>  system, used for fire control. Its "data" was output to a
digital
>  computer. The digital computer was mounted on the bed of
a 5
>  ton truck.
>  This "computer" was more of an A to D converter and modem
>  than computer.
>  Today fancy gizmo's have more power.
>
>  The price of the pots (variable resistors) in one-third
of analog
>  computer would pay for several servers. (Several thousand
dollars for
>  each pot in the late 60's.) Hate to see what they would
cost today!
>
>  Yes, I am over 25. :)
>  --
>  Jerry W. Hubbard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>

You young whippersnappers are making me feel real olde here.
memory is failing here, but do you remember...
(not in chronological order)

the birth of the  original PC - Radio Electronics magazine
as I recall
"How to Build Your own home computer" - using the 4 BIT
Intel 4004 chip.

The birth of the Altair and Imsai using the Intel 8 bit 8080
trying to scrape together the money to buy one when your
father said no
to buying it for you as an incentive for you to "be your own
man" at the ripe olde
age of 12.

CP/M

Bill Gates bringing out DOS

The Solbourne

the Osbourne One "Laptop"

The birth of the Zilog  Z-80

CORE memory boards.

Watching robots build and wirewrap the backplane of the IBM
360.

The birth of Digital Equipment Corporation and their first
PDP

Playing with paper tape, 80 column and 92 or was it 96
column punch cards

Dropping your first punch card deck on the floor and having
to manually
resort the entire deck of 500 cards because you did not
bother to number the
cards using columns 73-80 of the cards so the card sorter
could do it for you.a mistake YOU NEVER MADE AGAIN.
(mostly because the olde timers you worked with were having
such a great
time over your mistakecause they told you so.)

Waiting in line to have your card deck program run for the
10th time
to see if you had gotten that last bug out of your Fortran
code.

Having 10,000 card decks because you were now writing in
COBOL.
and those cards were numbered...

DEC RK06 and the later RK07 disk packs - what were they - 10
MB of disk storage
on a single 14 inch platter

RS04 swap disks - 1 MB of high speed swap for your PDP11
I modified the Unix v6 swap algorithm to use that puppy
to resort and reorganize all the ram in my PDP11-70 in real
time so I could avoid the "Panic - Out Of swap space"
crashes of those times.

Writing complex programs that had to fit and work in 32 MB
of RAM.

paying $80,000 for 4 MB of RAM  that came in two rack mount
chassis units
that were 19 inches by 30 inches by 10 inches each and
thinking that was GREAT
because now I had maxed out the memory on my PDP 11-70 which
ran my very
large insurance company at the time.

CRT terminals hardwired via RS232 or 20ma links to the
mainframe

rows of RP06 disk drives (wash tubs) with removable ~ 200 MB
disk packs

The birth of the first winchester hard drives

Upgrading to Fujitsu eagles - ~ 450MB, two man rack
installation.

Programming my first computer in my first language
BASIC on a DEC PDP 8e


reading about the birth of the ENIAC as a young pup in the
late 50's when I first
caught word about these things called "Computers" and how
they were going to lead
to great things

meeting Grace Hopper US NAVY - one of the first programmers
ever and the first woman programmer
ever - she was part of the first team that found the first
real computer bug -
a moth caught in the computer relays causing computational
errors

Programming in that advanced language called
ASSEMBLER..

Programming in tedious  COBOL.

being an original HACKER, when HACKER was a good thing

Yourdan's  Structured Programming Methodologies...

Working with the kernel source code for Bell Lab's just
released UNIX Version 6.

The first  24 bit Color Video Card -

we had three of these -

Composed of Three 19 inch wide by 72 inch high rack mount
cabinets
one for each color (RGB) 8 bits per pixel per cabinet
CORE memory
a DEC PDP 8/e frame buffer controller
High speed parallel bus ribbon cables connecting it to the
DEC PDP11-70
which rendered the images in real time - about 30 minutes
per individual frame

A BARCO RGB color monitor connected to a video switch


Gotta go, the nurse is coming with my medicine,  cough cough
cough hack.

Now were did I leave my walker..



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RE: Router question (was Re: postfix problems)

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  > One question I have that came out of this discussion is
>  why are systems
>  > behind routers safer? What kind of security does a
router provide?
>
>  A router by itself does not provide any inherent
security.  However:
>
>  A standard router, such as a cisco 2501, can do port
>  blocking, which can add
>  some security.
>
>  The devices which are marketed as "cable modem routers"
>  often have Network
>  Address Translation (NAT), which *does* add some
security.
>  It makes it
>  harder for the bad guys to hit your computer, as most of
the
>  'routers' are
>  set only to allow inbound packets that are replies to
your outbound
>  requests.  (IPtables does this as well, but most of these
>  'routers' do it
>  out of the box).
>
>  Ben


Your best bet for a home setup is a true firewall/router and
the ones for home,
netgear, linksys, dlink for example
are actually Linux boxes from what I understand. Standard
routers, besides offering
port blocking to keep out "well known port" based attacks,
usually offer access control lists
which enhance standard port blocks by allowing you to
specify for all or any specific ports -
allowed IP addresses (host or network or CIDR),
Denied ip addresses (great for nailing known spammers from
RBL's and stopping them
from annoying your mail servers and firewalls)

Higher end routers (cisco 2600 and up) also offer enhanced
firewall capabilities and
tie ins with security servers.


A commercial enterprise trying to protect it's internal
assets would use a combination of devices each providing a
level of defense. (Depends on it's access needs and Internet
requirements)

Level 1 - Border Router (with or without basic firewall)
provides access control lists for specific port and/or ip
address blocking or acceptance.
provides first tier security through optional connection to
security server
(dynamic access control lists, lock and key access
controls (SecurID type systems)

keeps the port scanners and known creeps from penetrating
into the next level.

Level 2 - True firewall, with/without content filtering and
other security (IDS) servers
Provides backup and further tuned access control lists
provides intelligent access controls and attack detection
Can tie to IDS servers, etc for increased intelligence

Level 3 - Security servers
Ties in with Border routers and Firewalls
Can tie in with other servers
Should have own local firewall enabled restricting all
access
to just encrypted port connections from known local hosts -
firewalls and border routers.
Provides increased intelligence for detecting attack
profiles and intrsuion detection
and response.


Level 4 - Servers and desktops
Personal level firewalls restricting access as appropriate.
Antivirus, antispam, anti-spyware programs actively running
on both client and server.
Different manufacturers for each package - example -
Norton antivirus on the desktop, and Mcafee antivirus
running on the email server.
More than one anti-spyware package running as well.
Servers restricted and tuned to a specific task - DNS
server, email server, pop/imap server
database server, email hub and scanning
(antivirus/antispam)

Level 4.1  - Web servers
web servers should also be placed between two separate
firewalls in true DMZ
and preferrably on a different internet link. The outside
firewall controls
global access to your web farm, the inside firewall
restricts access to just the
specific porst and ip addresses of your web farm. All
servers in the web farm
shoudl also have local firewalls and IDS software.

This is sort of "the Embassy Defense System" - put as many
obstacles of increasing difficulty
between you and your attackers to give you time to detect
and curtail them before they can do
significant damage to your infrastructure.


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RE: hosting a domain name

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Try  either Register.com or Registry.com (.net maybe). Its a
public DNS server that costs a couple of bucks a month.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Nurullah Akkaya
>  Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:15 AM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: hosting a domain name
>
>
>  my isp doesnt block any ports and i have static ip my
problem i am
>  going to start my project at home and then get a
colocation service
>  i dont want to lose the domain the last company i worked
with doesn
>  let me change thing on my domain like redirecting and i
donnt want
>  to pay redirecting fee if company let me do these thing
then there
>  is no need to run my own name server.can you point me to
a big and
>  reliable registring company? where does yahoo register
its name? i
>  mean just to get and example?
>  --
>  Nurullah Akkaya
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Registered Linux User #301438
>
>  What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny
>  matters compared to what lies within us.
>
>  "If at first an idea is not absurd, there is no hope for
it"
>  Albert Einstein
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
>  unsubscribe
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>


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RE: Swapped Hard Drives

[Kenneth Goodwin]

I take it the AMD is 1.4 GHZ P4 look alike?
Check the kernel rev's in /boot before you do anything.
IT IS highly likely that you will have to replace everything
that is
architecture specific not JUST /boot and the OS
images. - /lib/ , /usr/lib/, and rebuild
everything. Any shared libraries that use specific P4 level
instructions
will cause the attached executable to core dump or the
processor to hang (Illegal Instruction Error - core dumps
user level stuff, hangs the kernel.) when it tries to run
that section of code on your P3 architecture.
You might be able to stuff the i386 stuff onto the drive to
replace what is there to get
an operational system and then do a full upgrade to put the
righht libraries etc in place.
Back things up FIRST, You may be better off running an
Upgrade from the install cdrom's
to make sure you get everything correct or just do a
clean install. Depends how much you have invested in the
configuration of the software and whether or not you can
just copy off
what you changed and reinstall it after a fresh install of
Linux.

My recommendation would be to copy off, install fresh, and
then put back your applications
since that may be easier and safer in the long run.


>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of James
Pifer
>  Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:36 PM
>  To: RedHat List
>  Subject: RE: Swapped Hard Drives
>
>
>  Yeah, you're probably on the right track. The Dell
machine is a PIII
>  1Ghz and the AMD is a Pro 1400+. I'll see if I can copy
the
>  boot stuff
>  over.
>
>  Thanks,
>  James
>
>  On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 15:04, Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
>  > No detail, Sounds like cpu architectures getting in the
way
>  > to me.
>  > I take it the AMD is a later processor rev than the
Dell.
>  >
>  > Example  - the DEll is a pentium One and the AMD is a
>  > Pentium 3 class machine?
>  > The AMD might be running a 586 based kernel while the
Dell
>  > might be running
>  > a 386 kernel. The 386 will boot on a later modle
processor
>  > as  it is upwardly compatible
>  > but if the AMD disk has a more architecture targetted
>  > kernel, it can crash trying
>  > to execute P-3 only instructions ona  a P1 base for
example.
>  >
>  > Sounds like you need to stikc the drive back in the AMD
and
>  > stuff the boot directory from the
>  > dell DISK ONTO THE amd DISK to have a compatible kernel
>  > loaded.
>  > If this is the issue, you will also run into the same
issues
>  > with any (X86) specific
>  > libraries/executables on the AMD drive that are not
>  > compatible with the CPU in the Dell.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > >  -Original Message-
>  > >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
James
>  > Pifer
>  > >  Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:24 PM
>  > >  To: RedHat List
>  > >  Subject: Swapped Hard Drives
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  I have two development machines both running RH9.
The
>  > machines are
>  > >  completely different hardware. One is a Dell
Optiplex and
>  > >  the other is a
>  > >  white box AMD.
>  > >
>  > >  I needed to switch the hard drives to take advantage
of
>  > the white box
>  > >  AMD having double the RAM as the Dell. I took the
Dell's
>  > hard drive,
>  > >  stuck it in the white box, followed the prompts for
>  > adding
>  > >  and removing
>  > >  hardware, and after setting up X, it's running like
a
>  > champ.
>  > >
>  > >  Taking the white box AMD's hard drive and sticking
it in
>  > the Dell's
>  > >  machine has not gone as smoothly. It gets to the
grub
>  > menu,
>  > >  and then it
>  > >  reboots. The drives were the only and primary drives
in
>  > each system.
>  > >
>  > >  I'd rather not reinstall this machine since I had a
some
>  > >  stuff installed
>  > >  that would take a while to install again. Any
suggestions
>  > on
>  > >  how to get
>  > >  this one going again?
>  > >
>  > >  Thanks,
>  > >  James
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  --
>  > >  redhat-list mailing list
>  > >  unsubscribe
>  >
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>  > >
>  >
>
>
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RE: Swapped Hard Drives

[Kenneth Goodwin]

No detail, Sounds like cpu architectures getting in the way
to me.
I take it the AMD is a later processor rev than the Dell.

Example  - the DEll is a pentium One and the AMD is a
Pentium 3 class machine?
The AMD might be running a 586 based kernel while the Dell
might be running
a 386 kernel. The 386 will boot on a later modle processor
as  it is upwardly compatible
but if the AMD disk has a more architecture targetted
kernel, it can crash trying
to execute P-3 only instructions ona  a P1 base for example.

Sounds like you need to stikc the drive back in the AMD and
stuff the boot directory from the
dell DISK ONTO THE amd DISK to have a compatible kernel
loaded.
If this is the issue, you will also run into the same issues
with any (X86) specific
libraries/executables on the AMD drive that are not
compatible with the CPU in the Dell.



>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of James
Pifer
>  Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:24 PM
>  To: RedHat List
>  Subject: Swapped Hard Drives
>
>
>  I have two development machines both running RH9. The
machines are
>  completely different hardware. One is a Dell Optiplex and
>  the other is a
>  white box AMD.
>
>  I needed to switch the hard drives to take advantage of
the white box
>  AMD having double the RAM as the Dell. I took the Dell's
hard drive,
>  stuck it in the white box, followed the prompts for
adding
>  and removing
>  hardware, and after setting up X, it's running like a
champ.
>
>  Taking the white box AMD's hard drive and sticking it in
the Dell's
>  machine has not gone as smoothly. It gets to the grub
menu,
>  and then it
>  reboots. The drives were the only and primary drives in
each system.
>
>  I'd rather not reinstall this machine since I had a some
>  stuff installed
>  that would take a while to install again. Any suggestions
on
>  how to get
>  this one going again?
>
>  Thanks,
>  James
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
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RE: spec'ing a small server room

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  I've been asked to put together a proposal for a modest
>  server room (i
>  mean closet actually, roughly 8 x 8) and was fishing for
>  some guidance,
>  suggestions, links, etc. from the veterans out there.
I've
>  been told
>  to shoot for the moon so that we can still wind up with
some decent
>  hardware after the high-ups have their say.  We're
looking
>  to get a new
>  rack, some form of climate-control and UPS.  I'm a
newbie
>  at this so
>  please tell me if I've grossly overlooked vital parts of
any
>  reputable,
>  scalable server room.
>
>  Thanks in advance,
>  Jurvis

>From a EDU, sounds like someone's homework assignment...
If it is, please STOP here. you went to college to LEARN new
things
and how to SOLVE new problems. Do your own research, picking
peoples brains
for the answers is not going to help you longterm.

Dad.




You first need to define the Need.

1) what do you already have and will keep in the new
environment
2) How much downtime can you afford if systems fail? = # AC
and UPS units
3) raised floor or vinyl? I prefer raised with a minimum
height of 8 inches.
but you need to be able to raise the ceiling up as well.
4) 8X 8 is kinda TINY for an equipment room. You will need
to go vertical
for maximum capacity by installing tall 82" or higher
cabinets (watch your ceiling height).
5) You will need a minimum of   2.5 Feet for the depth of
most equipment
cabinets, 2 feet behind the cabinets and 2 feet in front.
You will also need two feet of walk around room. All of this
is subject to local building and fire codes. This gives you
one row of cabinets maximum. If you figure in a modest
console table, two monitors,  that eats up five feet
of your overall length-  so that is out. So you need to rack
mount the consoles and that means
flat panel LCD monitors in 1U slide out drawers connected to
a KVM switch (Belkin). I would get a
2X8 Matrix belkin unit or equivalent and have two consoles
available in the cabinets for all the
systems.

At most you are going to get Three cabinets in this room -
they are two feet wide for 19inch retma's. This means wall
mount or ceiling mount Air conditioner. Check out LEIBERT
for ceiling mount units. You need at least a three ton unit
but the AC sales rep will
size it for you. cabinets should have vented doors and
cooling fans. No taller than 6 inches
from the as built ceiling height.

UPS -  APC (www.apcc.com)  A Smartups or Symettra rack mount
unit, You will need at least two
to support three cabinets. A Symettra installed in the
central cabinet would be adequate
if sized properly to run all three cabinets.

You will need rack mount power strips preferrably with AMP
meters on them to tell you the load.
One or two (or more) per cabinet.

If you have a lot of routers and front mount comm gear, then
you might want to substitute
a Chatsworth or Newton IDF frame for a cabinet to hold that
equipment.

Fire control - FM-200 or Water?  you will need automatic
power cutoff with either.
The walls of your data center will need to reach from the
underlying slab to the
very top of the ceiling level (the bottom of the floor
above, be constructed of fireproof
wall board and stuffed with open faced fiberglass batting to
cut down on noise.

A raised floor will have to come out from the entry door and
have steps to descend to ground level.
You will need a portable ramp to drop on the steps to give
you an inclined
plane to roll equipment in/out of the data center. You cant
afford the space for a built in ramp within the CUBE.

A 7 X 9 room would actually give you more usable space.
allow 5 inches for wall thickness


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RE: The best UPS for RH?

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard
Crawford
>  Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 5:49 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: The best UPS for RH?
>
>
>  The power at my house "blinked" last week, crashing my
mail
>  server, so I
>  have now discovered that there may be wisdom in
purchasing a
>  UPS for my
>  home.
>
>  What is the best kind to get for my system?  I'm running
RH
>  8.0 on an old
>  486.
>
>
>  Sliante,
>  Richard S. Crawford
>
>  http://www.mossroot.com
>  AIM: Buffalo2K ICQ: 11646404 Y!: rscrawford
>  MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Howard Dean for America:  http://www.deanforamerica.com
>  "It is only with the heart that we see rightly; what is
essential is
>  invisible to the eye." --Antoine de Saint Exupéry
>

I prefer  APC  SmartUps  or the less expensive Back-UPS
www.apcc.com


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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken
Plumley
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 2:31 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>
>
>
>  The MAC address was added when I selected Bind to MAC
>  Address using the Network Configration tool. I have
>  tried the config with and without the Bind option
>  selected.
>
>  Which file is the /etc/sysconfig/network master file?

The file  "/etc/sysconfig/network"

>
>  Ken
>
>
>  --- Kenneth Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > looks okay, kinda weird you need to spec the MAC
>  > address for
>  > the card
>  > thought, it should be able to figure that out for
>  > itself.
>  > I am presuming it is in the correct "format" for
>  > this line.
>  >
>  > Anything funky in the /etc/sysconfig/network master
>  > file?
>  >
>  > >  -Original Message-
>  > >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>  > Ken
>  > Plumley
>  > >  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 2:05 PM
>  > >  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem
>  > to
>  > Internet
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  Here is the config for these files:
>  > >  /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
>  > >  /etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-eth0
>  > >
>  > >  USERCTL=yes
>  > >  PEERDNS=yes
>  > >  TYPE=Ethernet
>  > >  DEVICE=eth0
>  > >  BOOTPROTO=dhcp
>  > >  ONBOOT=yes
>  > >  HWADDR= (the correct MAC is listed here)
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  --- Kenneth Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > wrote:
>  > >  > The network config tool may be broken,,   have
>  > you
>  > >  > looked
>  > >  > at the underlying //etc/sysconfig  network
>  > related
>  > >  > files?
>  > >  >
>  > >  >
>  > >  > >  -Original Message-
>  > >  > >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Behalf Of
>  > >  > Kelerion
>  > >  > >  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:06 PM
>  > >  > >  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  > >  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable
>  > Modem
>  > >  > to
>  > >  > Internet
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  Your not messing/playing around with a 2.5
>  > or 2.6
>  > >  > kernel
>  > >  > are you?
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  I know from experience that dhcpclient
>  > breaks
>  > >  > with those
>  > >  > >  kernels.. The
>  > >  > >  way I got around it was to set a static ip
>  > (also
>  > >  > make
>  > >  > sure
>  > >  > >  your gateway
>  > >  > >  is correct) and that should help..
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  Don't know if this is what your doing but it
>  > just
>  > >  > sounded
>  > >  > familiar to
>  > >  > >  me..
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  HTH
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  Kel
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  -Original Message-
>  > >  > >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  > >  On Behalf Of Ken Plumley
>  > >  > >  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 4:36 PM
>  > >  > >  To: Redhat List
>  > >  > >  Subject: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable
>  > Modem to
>  > >  > Internet
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  I am trying to setup an x86 box running red
>  > hat
>  > >  > linux
>  > >  > >  8.0 to reach the internet using a cable
>  > modem. I
>  > >  > used
>  > >  > >  the Network Configuration tool to configure
>  > eth0
>  > >  > to
>  > >  > >  automatically obtain
>  > >  > >  IP address settings with DHCP and
>  > automatically
>  > >  > obtain
>  > >  > DNS
>  > >  > >  information
>  > >  > >  from the ISP. When I try to activate eth0
>  > using
>  > >  > the
>  > >  > Network
>  > >  > >  Configu

RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  
>  Ken,
>  
>  Maybe you've already tried this, but my cable modem has a
"feature"
>  which requires it to be reset every time a new device is
plugged
>  into it.
>  
>  -Steve
>

different ken here, BTW - that feature is called ARP,Address
Resolution Protocol,
the cable modem has learned the ethernet mac address to IP
address conversion for your
NIC card. You either wait  for the "time to live" (TTL)  of
the ARP table entry
to expire and refresh grabbing your new mac address, OR you
wipe it clean
with a Reboot or an arp -d (delete) command if available.

It's not a bug, it is supposed to work that way. Nothing on
a network
really "talks" in terms of names or IP addresses, it really
is done
using MAC addresses at the low end. IP addresses were
invented
as a way to standardize around the different sizes of MAC
addresses
between ethernet , token ring, arcnet, etc that were around
at the time.
The local nets build ARP tables to translate the virtual IP
address
into a real hardware address on the local network.

Novell's IPX was based on using MAC addresses originally as
I recall and
then "zoning" them for more complex networks.


>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: Ken Plumley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:47 AM
>  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>  > 
>  > 
>  > Jason,
>  > 
>  > The nic is an SMC EZ 10/100 the driver loaded for it
>  > is the RealTek RTL-8139.
>  > 
>  > I tested the nic with a fixed IP and was able to
>  > access other machines on the LAN.
>  > 
>  > Ken
  
<>

RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

t
>
>
>  Steve,
>
>  Yes, I tried unpluging and reseting the cable modem
>  too. It still dosen't work.
>
>  Ken
>
1) I presume you already reset the linux box for DHCP
service for this NIC's address
so it should DHCP poll when you reboot the machine. ie you
Checked the /etc/sysconfig/net*
files and subdirectories.

2) If you are plugging into the cable modem's ethernet port
directly,
I presume you have the proper (usually CROSSOVER) cable and
have LINK
lights on at both ends of the cable.

3) I presume the cable modem has been checked with it's
software
and it is configured to be a dhcp passlong server. (check
it's manual or software)

4) I presume all the above and been checked and that an
ifconfig shows no IP address
subnet mask ,etc being assigned???

5) Since you are already working on a  standard LAN with
static addresses
then it is a simple configuration issue somewhere, not a
linux kernel, driver , etc issue.
Ie you are on the verge of a "Ah! Duh! Stupid Me!" event
horizon.


>
>
>  --- "Rigler, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Ken,
>  >
>  > Maybe you've already tried this, but my cable modem
>  > has a "feature"
>  > which requires it to be reset every time a new
>  > device is plugged
>  > into it.
>  >
>  > -Steve
>  >
>  > > -Original Message-
>  > > From: Ken Plumley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:47 AM
>  > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem
>  > to Internet
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Jason,
>  > >
>  > > The nic is an SMC EZ 10/100 the driver loaded for
>  > it
>  > > is the RealTek RTL-8139.
>  > >
>  > > I tested the nic with a fixed IP and was able to
>  > > access other machines on the LAN.
>  > >
>  > > Ken
>


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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Maybe you need a cross over cable and are using a straight
through cable. Check the link lights on the
cable modem (labeled PC usually) and your ethernet card.
They should light as long as the link is established
hardwrtae
wise and there is power at both ends.

Is the other machine being cabled the exact same way with
these
cables? Or do you know they work because you tried them
somewhere else where the cable was used to connect a pc to a
hub or switch?

Is the ethernet port on the cable modem a 10 MBPS port,
the ethernet card in the working PC a 10/100 card and this
card only a 100?  in other words, could you have
a port speed mismatch in some fashion even if you have LINK.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken
Plumley
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 2:23 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>
>
>  Jason,
>
>  When I set eth0 to activate automatically then restart
>  the network it fails with the following message:
>
>  Deternining IP information for eth0... failed: no link
>  present. Check cable?
>
>  I tried two different cables, both cables are known to
>  be good since I can use them to reach the internet on
>  another machine.
>
>  Ken
>
>
>  --- Jason Staudenmayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Instead of just restarting eth0, set eth0 to auto
>  > start and restart the
>  > whole network "/etc/rc.d/initd/network restart" see
>  > if that helps.
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: Ken Plumley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 12:11 PM
>  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
>  > Internet
>  >
>  >
>  > Steve,
>  >
>  > Yes, I tried unpluging and reseting the cable modem
>  > too. It still dosen't work.
>  >
>  > Ken
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --- "Rigler, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > Ken,
>  > >
>  > > Maybe you've already tried this, but my cable
>  > modem
>  > > has a "feature"
>  > > which requires it to be reset every time a new
>  > > device is plugged
>  > > into it.
>  > >
>  > > -Steve
>  > >
>  > > > -Original Message-
>  > > > From: Ken Plumley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:47 AM
>  > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable
>  > Modem
>  > > to Internet
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > Jason,
>  > > >
>  > > > The nic is an SMC EZ 10/100 the driver loaded
>  > for
>  > > it
>  > > > is the RealTek RTL-8139.
>  > > >
>  > > > I tested the nic with a fixed IP and was able to
>  > > > access other machines on the LAN.
>  > > >
>  > > > Ken
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > redhat-list mailing list
>  > > unsubscribe
>  > >
>  >
>  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >
>  > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>  >
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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  Jason,
>
>  The NIC was defective.
>
>  I am sending this email from the machine that could
>  not reach the internet, which now has a new NIC in it.
>
>  Thanks to all for your help. :)
>
>  Ken
>

So as I gather - It was Working at the office lan,
died upon power up at home. Not unusual, but not a normal
failure situation. would have suspected that it was
worked out of the MB slot first and needed to be reseated.

Of course, if you had all your machines disconnected from
the cable
modem connection for an extended time period,
it could also be that the ARP table entries for the single?
IP address
you were using finally expired and flushed from their tables
the IP address/MAC address of the working machine
and it is just coincidence that a new interface card now
works
sinc ethe new MAC/IP address combo is in their ARP
tables.

I'd test that card in another machine (not on your cable
modem connection)
before tossing it. The manufacturer might have dos floppy
based diagnostics
for downloading.


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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Not if he is using it successfully with a static IP
on another LAN.

Are you using the ethernet cable that came with the cable
modem?
if not, try it. It should be the correct type for a PC to
cable modem connection.


>
>  Starting to sound like a deaf NIC. Did you try to swap it
out yet?
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: Ken Plumley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 2:23 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>
>
>  Jason,
>
>  When I set eth0 to activate automatically then restart
>  the network it fails with the following message:
>
>  Deternining IP information for eth0... failed: no link
>  present. Check cable?
>
>  I tried two different cables, both cables are known to
>  be good since I can use them to reach the internet on
>  another machine.
>
>  Ken
>
>
>  --- Jason Staudenmayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Instead of just restarting eth0, set eth0 to auto
>  > start and restart the
>  > whole network "/etc/rc.d/initd/network restart" see
>  > if that helps.
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: Ken Plumley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 12:11 PM
>  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
>  > Internet
>  >
>  >
>  > Steve,
>  >
>  > Yes, I tried unpluging and reseting the cable modem
>  > too. It still dosen't work.
>  >
>  > Ken
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --- "Rigler, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > Ken,
>  > >
>  > > Maybe you've already tried this, but my cable
>  > modem
>  > > has a "feature"
>  > > which requires it to be reset every time a new
>  > > device is plugged
>  > > into it.
>  > >
>  > > -Steve
>  > >
>  > > > -Original Message-
>  > > > From: Ken Plumley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:47 AM
>  > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable
>  > Modem
>  > > to Internet
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > Jason,
>  > > >
>  > > > The nic is an SMC EZ 10/100 the driver loaded
>  > for
>  > > it
>  > > > is the RealTek RTL-8139.
>  > > >
>  > > > I tested the nic with a fixed IP and was able to
>  > > > access other machines on the LAN.
>  > > >
>  > > > Ken
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > redhat-list mailing list
>  > > unsubscribe
>  > >
>  >
>  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >
>  > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>  >
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>  > __
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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

you are not likely to be able to ping anyone, most
sites block pings nowadays. Can you run a browser session or
dig on a domain name to see it's ip address?

what does ifconfig say about the ethernet card's address
info
is it right for your ISP?

do you reset your default gateway, dns server info etc, for
your cable service provider???



>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken
Plumley
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:04 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>
>
>  Otto,
>
>  Sorry, my mistake. Yes eth0 does activate in this case
>  but it fails to successfully reach the internet. I can
>  not ping any IP addresses out on the internet.
>
>  Ken
>
>
>
>  --- Otto Haliburton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
>  > I don't understand what you mean when you say the
>  > eth0 failed to
>  > activate.  The IP address you are assigning is
>  > unique isn't it.  You
>  > don't have the other machine up and running at the
>  > same time. Explain
>  > what you mean by eth0 fail to activate.  Also check
>  > your /etc/host file.
>  >
>  > > -Original Message-
>  > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > [mailto:redhat-list-
>  > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Plumley
>  > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 11:40 AM
>  > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem
>  > to Internet
>  > >
>  > > Otto,
>  > >
>  > > Earlier in my trouble shooting I tried the process
>  > you
>  > > suggested of copying the addresses for IP,
>  > broadcast
>  > > and netmask from a different machine that I used
>  > to
>  > > access the internet using the same cable modem at
>  > the
>  > > same location but eth0 fails to active.
>  > >
>  > > The cable modem successfully access the internet
>  > on
>  > > other machines at the same location running redhat
>  > 6.2
>  > > and windows.
>  > >
>  > > Ken
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --- Otto Haliburton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > > wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > > -Original Message-
>  > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > [mailto:redhat-list-
>  > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Plumley
>  > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 11:11 AM
>  > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable
>  > Modem
>  > > > to Internet
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Steve,
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Yes, I tried unpluging and reseting the cable
>  > > > modem
>  > > > > too. It still dosen't work.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Ken
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > --- "Rigler, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > > > wrote:
>  > > > > > Ken,
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > Maybe you've already tried this, but my
>  > cable
>  > > > modem
>  > > > > > has a "feature"
>  > > > > > which requires it to be reset every time a
>  > new
>  > > > > > device is plugged
>  > > > > > into it.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > -Steve
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > > -Original Message-
>  > > > > > > From: Ken Plumley
>  > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:47 AM
>  > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > > > > Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on
>  > Cable
>  > > > Modem
>  > > > > > to Internet
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > Jason,
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > The nic is an SMC EZ 10/100 the driver
>  > loaded
>  > > > for
>  > > > > > it
>  > > > > > > is the RealTek RTL-8139.
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > I tested the nic with a fixed IP and was
>  > able
>  > > > to
>  > > > > > > access other machines on the LAN.
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > > > Ken
>  > > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > If you have a windows computer that has worked
>  > > > before then get the ip
>  > > > address and the dns address that worked before
>  > then
>  > > > hard code that in
>  > > > the linux box to see if that works if that works
>  > > > then you don't have
>  > > > dhcp setup correctly.  If that doesn't work then
>  > > > make sure your cable
>  > > > modem is provisioned(sp) by the ISP if you have
>  > > > never had it hooked up
>  > > > before.  You know MAC address etc
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > --
>  > > > redhat-list mailing list
>  > > > unsubscribe
>  > > >
>  > >
>  >
>  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > >
>  > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > __
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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

looks okay, kinda weird you need to spec the MAC address for
the card
thought, it should be able to figure that out for itself.
I am presuming it is in the correct "format" for this line.

Anything funky in the /etc/sysconfig/network master file?

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken
Plumley
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 2:05 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>
>
>  Here is the config for these files:
>  /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
>  /etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-eth0
>
>  USERCTL=yes
>  PEERDNS=yes
>  TYPE=Ethernet
>  DEVICE=eth0
>  BOOTPROTO=dhcp
>  ONBOOT=yes
>  HWADDR= (the correct MAC is listed here)
>
>
>  --- Kenneth Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > The network config tool may be broken,,   have you
>  > looked
>  > at the underlying //etc/sysconfig  network related
>  > files?
>  >
>  >
>  > >  -Original Message-
>  > >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>  > Kelerion
>  > >  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:06 PM
>  > >  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem
>  > to
>  > Internet
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  Your not messing/playing around with a 2.5 or 2.6
>  > kernel
>  > are you?
>  > >
>  > >  I know from experience that dhcpclient breaks
>  > with those
>  > >  kernels.. The
>  > >  way I got around it was to set a static ip (also
>  > make
>  > sure
>  > >  your gateway
>  > >  is correct) and that should help..
>  > >
>  > >  Don't know if this is what your doing but it just
>  > sounded
>  > familiar to
>  > >  me..
>  > >
>  > >  HTH
>  > >
>  > >  Kel
>  > >
>  > >  -Original Message-
>  > >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  On Behalf Of Ken Plumley
>  > >  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 4:36 PM
>  > >  To: Redhat List
>  > >  Subject: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
>  > Internet
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  I am trying to setup an x86 box running red hat
>  > linux
>  > >  8.0 to reach the internet using a cable modem. I
>  > used
>  > >  the Network Configuration tool to configure eth0
>  > to
>  > >  automatically obtain
>  > >  IP address settings with DHCP and automatically
>  > obtain
>  > DNS
>  > >  information
>  > >  from the ISP. When I try to activate eth0 using
>  > the
>  > Network
>  > >  Configuration tool it fails with the message:
>  > Cannot
>  > activate network
>  > >  device eth0.
>  > >
>  > >  I can reach the internet using the same cable
>  > modem at
>  > >  the same location on a different machine running
>  > red
>  > >  hat 6.2 with eth0 configured for dhcp.
>  > >
>  > >  Can some one please tell me how to configure dhcp
>  > on
>  > >  RH 8.0 to work with the cable modem?
>  > >
>  > >  Thanks in advance.
>  > >
>  > >  Ken
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  __
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>  > >  Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
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RE: SB AWE64 Gold on RH 9...error messages

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  The card has ISA w/ no jumpers or switches and it is (i
>  believed) a plug
>  and play card.
>
>  It is installed at the time the RH 9 is installed.
>
>  About the driver, Kudzu detect the card at startup and I
>  assumed that it
>  already load the proper drivers like for ex. what kudzu
did on my
>  ethernet card (i might be wrong)...anyway, do you know
what drivers i
>  can use and where to get it...
>
>  I will also try Ed's suggestion to set the BIOS to assign
>  IRQ5 to ISA.

Should not be necessary if the card is plug and play and the
BIOS
is set for a Plug And Play OS (My Asus motherboard BIOS
setups
have such a flag.) Check your BIOS for such a selection on
whatever
screens it has and see if it is set ON/YES/?? to active the
feature.
That will make sure the card gets allocated all the needed
resources by the BIOS
at hard boot time.

Check the messages file after boot and see if Kudzu or the
kernel is dumping
the IRQ/address information for the card into the debug
output, that will
hopefully let you know if the hardware layer is being
properly setup.
There might be  a command (under kudzu) for dumping out
hardware details
as well - a sort of Windows Device Manager looksee.

Your error messages seem to indicate moreover that a
software driver is not available
on the harddrive for the card. Check on Creative's web site
for Linux drivers
for your revision of the OS. You can also look on
sourceforge.


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RE: SB AWE64 Gold on RH 9...error messages

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  Here's some output i am getting when booting up the
system...
>
>  Soundblaster audio driver Copyright (C) by Hannu
Savolainen 1993-1996
>  sb: Creative SB AWE64 Gold detected
>  sb: Sound Blaster AWE 64 Gold sb config failed (out of
>  resources?)[-2]
>  sb: Failed to initialize Creative SB AWE64 Gold
>  sb: No ISAPnP cards found, trying standard ones...
>  sb: dsp reset failed.
>  Soundblaster audio driver Copyright (C) by Hannu
Savolainen 1993-1996
>  sb: Creative SB AWE64 Gold detected
>  sb: Sound Blaster AWE 64 Gold sb config failed (out of
>  resources?)[-2]
>  sb: Failed to initialize Creative SB AWE64 Gold
>  sb: No ISAPnP cards found, trying standard ones...
>  sb: dsp reset failed.
>  Soundblaster audio driver Copyright (C) by Hannu
Savolainen 1993-1996
>  sb: Creative SB AWE64 Gold detected
>  sb: Sound Blaster AWE 64 Gold sb config failed (out of
>  resources?)[-2]
>  sb: Failed to initialize Creative SB AWE64 Gold
>

Sounds like an IRq/Address conflict to me.
More info required -

ROM BIOS CONFIG set for Plug and Play OS? theres
usually a config in the screens for such a setting

Is the AWE a PCI or ISA bus card?
It looks like it might be ISA.
Does the card have jumpers/switches on it for setting the
address/irq? or is it a Plug and Play card?

Was this card installed at the time of the installation of
Redhat
or is this a new add?

Do you have the correct drivers already loaded for this card
on Linux?

It looks like  Kudzu is seeing it on boot and either you
have an address conflict or
no driver loaded for this card to link to it.


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RE: time_t size and year 2038 wrap

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  Hi,
>  I'm using redhat 7.4 and in bits/types.h time_t is
defined
>  as long int.
>  This causes a wrap in 2038 (as I'm sure you all know). I
searched the
>  redhat site for date 2038 and found very little current
stuff. The
>  attached post from 1998 seems to say 'all will be well'
but
>  I'm having a
>  hard time persuading my boss that it's clever to use a
date
>  system that
>  expires in 35 years. I need both date and time. I can
write
>  my own date
>  to/from string routines. What I don't want to do is write
>  the equivalent
>  of the time() function to get the current date & time. Is
>  there a 64 bit
>  version of time() available for the current version(s) of
linux? Does
>  anyone have any other ideas?
>  Thanks,
>  Andy.
>

This sounds like a case of premature optimization to me.
First of all, the likelyhood is in 35 years, your code and
everything it sits on will have been replaced numerous
times.

Secondly, the 64 bit time_t value will appear in 64 bit
versions of Linux
which means you will have what you need shortly.

The time_t value includes date/time by its very nature.

To bullet proof your code, you could declare a data type,
say doubletime_t
which is a 64 bit unsigned value. I believe that is
expressed in C
as a "unsigned double long int"
(they were debating about data types and naming conventions
the
last time I was involved
in this area, I dont know what they settled on, but a  good
recent
C reference should tell you.)

as I recall the spec they were working on was

short - 16 bit integer
long - 32 bit integer
double long - 64 bit integer
int - X bit integer where X is the native size of an
INTEGER on the system
32 bits on a 32 bit word size machine, 16 bits on a 16 bit
word machine
24, 64 and so on depending on CPU hardware architecture
register - same as int, but "almost" guaranteed to reside
in a hardware register
depending on availability. (actualkly the optimizers should
take care
of stuffing most frequently used INT's into hardware
registers IMHO)

stuff the time_t value into your 64 bit long and then change
the data type definition
down the road to the new 64 bit value when that becomes
available.

OR - use ctime()/localtime() to convert the 32 bit time into
separate
date and time values
in a subroutine stuff the characters into separate date time
fields

Or convert time_t into year plus julian day of year,
stuff the year into an unsigned short
(16 bits - good until the year 65,536) and the day into
an unsigned char or short
good until the year gets to be more than 365 days.)

Of course you will need custom code and will be
somewhat non-portable here or you can hope for freeware for
julian dates
search google, I believe it is around.

you will also need special subroutines to do any data/time
compares
or manipulations on your special versions of date-time.

If you are using an underlying database here, most of them
have their own DATE-TIME values (and possibly the same issue
or a more standard bulletproof format.)


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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  I only put one machine on the internet at a time.

Forgive if redundant to any previous questioning 

DO YOU -

1) Move the cable from the ethernet port on "working
machine"
to ethernet port on broken machine.
2) reboot the cable modem.
3) wait a few minutes for the cable modem and connection to
reset.
4) boot the "broken machine"
5) Check via ifconfig -a to see if IP address, etc is set.
>
>
>
>  --- Kenneth Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >  >I can reach the internet using the same cable
>  > modem at
>  > >  >the same location on a different machine running
>  > red
>  > >  >hat 6.2 with eth0 configured for dhcp.
>  > >
>  > >  Try removing the NIC from the other machine and
>  > install
>  > it in the new
>  > >  machine.
>  >
>  >
>  > At the same time? Perhaps your ISP only allows one
>  > DHCP
>  > address??
>  >
>  > Most allow for two to four, but it could be that
>  > machine one
>  > has one
>  > assigned, and the ISP DHCP server wont allow you to
>  > grab a
>  > second.
>  >
>  >
>  > --
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>
>
>  __
>  Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
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>
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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

The network config tool may be broken,,   have you looked
at the underlying //etc/sysconfig  network related  files?


>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Kelerion
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:06 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>
>
>  Your not messing/playing around with a 2.5 or 2.6 kernel
are you?
>
>  I know from experience that dhcpclient breaks with those
>  kernels.. The
>  way I got around it was to set a static ip (also make
sure
>  your gateway
>  is correct) and that should help..
>
>  Don't know if this is what your doing but it just sounded
familiar to
>  me..
>
>  HTH
>
>  Kel
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  On Behalf Of Ken Plumley
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 4:36 PM
>  To: Redhat List
>  Subject: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet
>
>
>  I am trying to setup an x86 box running red hat linux
>  8.0 to reach the internet using a cable modem. I used
>  the Network Configuration tool to configure eth0 to
>  automatically obtain
>  IP address settings with DHCP and automatically obtain
DNS
>  information
>  from the ISP. When I try to activate eth0 using the
Network
>  Configuration tool it fails with the message: Cannot
activate network
>  device eth0.
>
>  I can reach the internet using the same cable modem at
>  the same location on a different machine running red
>  hat 6.2 with eth0 configured for dhcp.
>
>  Can some one please tell me how to configure dhcp on
>  RH 8.0 to work with the cable modem?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Ken
>
>
>  __
>  Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
software
>  http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  >I can reach the internet using the same cable modem at
>  >the same location on a different machine running red
>  >hat 6.2 with eth0 configured for dhcp.
>
>  Try removing the NIC from the other machine and install
it in the new
>  machine.


At the same time? Perhaps your ISP only allows one DHCP
address??

Most allow for two to four, but it could be that machine one
has one
assigned, and the ISP DHCP server wont allow you to grab a
second.


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RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet

[Kenneth Goodwin]

he cant use a static ip as one is not assigned to him
by the ISP, they use DHCP.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Kelerion
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:06 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to
Internet
>
>
>  Your not messing/playing around with a 2.5 or 2.6 kernel
are you?
>
>  I know from experience that dhcpclient breaks with those
>  kernels.. The
>  way I got around it was to set a static ip (also make
sure
>  your gateway
>  is correct) and that should help..
>
>  Don't know if this is what your doing but it just sounded
familiar to
>  me..
>
>  HTH
>
>  Kel
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  On Behalf Of Ken Plumley
>  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 4:36 PM
>  To: Redhat List
>  Subject: Ethernet & DHCP Fails on Cable Modem to Internet
>
>
>  I am trying to setup an x86 box running red hat linux
>  8.0 to reach the internet using a cable modem. I used
>  the Network Configuration tool to configure eth0 to
>  automatically obtain
>  IP address settings with DHCP and automatically obtain
DNS
>  information
>  from the ISP. When I try to activate eth0 using the
Network
>  Configuration tool it fails with the message: Cannot
activate network
>  device eth0.
>
>  I can reach the internet using the same cable modem at
>  the same location on a different machine running red
>  hat 6.2 with eth0 configured for dhcp.
>
>  Can some one please tell me how to configure dhcp on
>  RH 8.0 to work with the cable modem?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Ken
>
>
>  __
>  Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
software
>  http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
>  --
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RE: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Otto , Ashley stated he REMOVED THEM BOTH , I was just
confirming
that all of them was gone, not just a piece at the admin
level.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Otto
Haliburton
>  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 4:23 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure
>
>
>  They both are there trust me. In RH8/9
>
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:redhat-list-
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenneth Goodwin
>  > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:44 PM
>  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Subject: RE: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure
>  >
>  > I thought Kudzu was replaced by Anaconda I dont recall
>  > seeing it on my RH 8/9 systems
>  > but I may have been asleep at the console at the
time...
>  >
>  >
>  > >  -Original Message-
>  > >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Ashley
>  > M. Kirchner
>  > >  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:35 PM
>  > >  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > >  Subject: Re: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
>  > >
>  > >  >yOU DONT GET A BOOT time  MESSAGE ABOUTING CHECKING
FOR
>  > new
>  > >  >hardware?
>  > >  >
>  > >  >
>  > >  That's kudzu's job, and it's been long removed.
(So
>  > the
>  > >  answer to
>  > >  your question is no, I don't.)
>  > >
>  > >  --
>  > >  W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape
>  > somewhere.
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
+---
>  > -
>  > >Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   .
>  > >  303.442.6410 x130
>  > >IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith .
>  > >  800.441.3873 x130
>  > >Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc..
3550
>  > >  Arapahoe Ave. #6
>  > >http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..
Boulder, CO
>  > >  80303, U.S.A.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  --
>  > >  redhat-list mailing list
>  > >  unsubscribe
>  >
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>  > >
>  >
>  >
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RE: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Every time I run Anaconda during installs, it does device
detection Probing.
"looking for hardware", does this mean it is silently
calling
kudzu underneath?
IMWTK  (Inquiring Minds Want To Know.)

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael
Schwendt
>  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 4:12 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure
>
>
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>  On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:43:38 -0400, Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
>
>  > I thought Kudzu was replaced by Anaconda I dont recall
>  > seeing it on my RH 8/9 systems
>  > but I may have been asleep at the console at the
time...
>
>  Kudzu and Anaconda are two separate things. The former is
a hardware
>  detection and configuration tool. The latter is Red Hat's
installer.
>
>  - --
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
>
>
iD8DBQE/Lr4N0iMVcrivHFQRAot/AJ0WxUEmuAqkS35935l9GCrfkWTX/wCf
ZiZo
>  C8VW4t2C3Oxz6d9z2mV3lS4=
>  =yzwJ
>  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  >
>  > Now Mike, This is not Fair! You cant keep changing the
>  > nomenclature
>  > like this, It just confuses my poor little brain...
>  > I thut I thaw a put-tee tat..
>
>  GRUB in MBR does not care at all whether the _next_ stage
is the
>  final stage as found in file /boot/grub/stage2 or whether
it is an
>  intermediate stage that loads another stage.
>
>  So, in the stage1 source code they call the next stage
>  "stage2", which
>  is the stage1.5 we've been referring to all the time.
It's that
>  intermediate stage1.5 which provides ext2 fs access and
>  hence can load
>  any ordinary file on GRUB's root partition.
>
>  The important thing to point out repeatedly is that if
stage1 (in
>  MBR) doesn't recognize any error upon determining drive
geometry and
>  upon loading the next stage, it doesn't print anything
else than
>  "GRUB ". And what can happen in stage1? In stage1 the
BIOS is used
>  to access the disk. CHS/LBA confusion, time-out waiting
for hda to
>  respond, what else?
>
It was a Joke Son, It was  A Joke  (Foghorn Leghorn)
We went from Stage 1 to Stage 1.5 to Stage 2 sequencing to

Stage 1 to Stage 2 to Stage  sequencing,, and you
probably confusing
a few of the younger crowd.

You and I are in agreement, the issue is with stage 1 - the
MBR boot program.
It loads and dies before launching Stage 1.5. I dont have
the RH 7.2 version of
the grub source to look at. Might have 7.1 levels. The MBR
is probably the same.
If you have source - What does it do after printing out
"GRUB", everything or
just a few last things before jumping to the newly loaded
image?


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  >I thought Kudzu was replaced by Anaconda I dont recall
>  >seeing it on my RH 8/9 systems
>  >but I may have been asleep at the console at the
time...
>  >
>  >
>  You skipped a post somewhere...the machine has 7.3 on
it.
>
>

actually i missed all the early ones and said so.
I only jump in when some poor soul like you
is being dragged around hell by the heels.

Oh, BTW I skipped from 7.1 to 8.0 and rapidly from there to
9.0
so 7.3 isnt even a faint happy memory. It never existed.



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RE: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

I thought Kudzu was replaced by Anaconda I dont recall
seeing it on my RH 8/9 systems
but I may have been asleep at the console at the time...


>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ashley
M. Kirchner
>  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:35 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure
>
>
>  Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
>
>  >yOU DONT GET A BOOT time  MESSAGE ABOUTING CHECKING FOR
new
>  >hardware?
>  >
>  >
>  That's kudzu's job, and it's been long removed.  (So
the
>  answer to
>  your question is no, I don't.)
>
>  --
>  W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape
somewhere.
>
>
+---
-
>Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   .
>  303.442.6410 x130
>IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith .
>  800.441.3873 x130
>Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.. 3550
>  Arapahoe Ave. #6
>http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..   Boulder, CO
>  80303, U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
>  unsubscribe
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:06:19 -0600, Ashley M. Kirchner
wrote:
>
>  > >If it doesn't print
>  > >an error message, it has loaded and jumped into stage2
either with
>  > >LBA or CHS geometry.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > I'm curious, where does stage1_5 come into play, if
>  what you're
>  > suggesting is that it jumps from stage1 to stage2?
>
>  In stage1 source code, the next stage is called stage2.
;)


Now Mike, This is not Fair! You cant keep changing the
nomenclature
like this, It just confuses my poor little brain...
I thut I thaw a put-tee tat..

So lets see, no stage 1.5 unless you are reading the grub
manual
by the light of the full moon under a pear tree, divide by
27,
carry the 2, divide again by four and multiply by PI
R-squared to the Nth power.
Lets seeh. Bing...Warp
Speed Mr Sulu..

Okay , so we have Stage 1 the MBR or Primary Boot Loader
which calls
Stage 2 the Main Boot Decision loader which calls Stage 3
the OS loader?

Or is it just Stage 1 and Stage 2 followed by the OS LOAD
and boot?
or it is Stage 1, 1.5 and 2 and carry the 3 if you are using
the same motherboard
as Ashley?


for the unwary -  CTS and CHS refer to the same thing

For really old ones like me, we refer to disk in terms of
Tracks,
which was the original nomenclature used with removal pack
disk drives
later generations like heads better, I guess they changed it
because
of Winchester technology


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

yOU DONT GET A BOOT time  MESSAGE ABOUTING CHECKING FOR new
hardware?

tHERE IS A PIECE OF ANACONDA THAT IS THE ADMINISTRATOR WHICH
YOU
may have removed, but the hardware auto-detect piece
may be still installed. If it is, you get the "checking for
new hardware"
message on the console which is anaconda running on your
system.
Need to know because if it is totally purged, we know that
you did not cuase any config file changes through anaconda.
what do you remember about drive detection during the first
install of
drive B that might be a clue here?

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ashley
M. Kirchner
>  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:31 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: GRUB failure
>
>
>  Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
>
>  >what I am saying is that the MBR may be crafted or
rebuild
>  >by anaconda
>  >for the two drive setup disk info. Anaconda may not be
able
>  >to go
>  >backwards here, may not be able to undo in a return to
>  >single drive
>  >configuration - most people add hardware, not remove it,
it
>  >may have
>  >not been a tested situation. "Something" changed on the
>  >linux system
>  >in response to the addition of the hard drive that is
not
>  >being undone
>  >when he reboots with only one drive installed.
>  >
>  >
>  This never occurred to me till now, but...the only
time
>  anaconda ran
>  and did anything, was when the system was first
installed.  Both
>  anaconda and kudzu get removed after installation.  I run
a
>  tight ship,
>  and don't like having packages installed that aren't
needed
>  for daily
>  operations, so they go.  When I added the second drive
months later,
>  what would cause any kind of configuration being redone,
or whatever
>  config file rewritten (other than me manually running
fdisk
>  and mkfs.ext3)?
>
>  --
>  W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape
somewhere.
>
>
+---
-
>Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   .
>  303.442.6410 x130
>IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith .
>  800.441.3873 x130
>Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.. 3550
>  Arapahoe Ave. #6
>http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..   Boulder, CO
>  80303, U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

WOULD BE INTERESTING IF THEY BOTH HAVE THE SAME MOTHERBOARD
/ rom bios
NOW WOuLDNT IT..


>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Otto
Haliburton
>  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:31 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: GRUB failure
>
>
>  This is different from the setup Ashley has but the
results are the
>  same.  I don't exactly know what that means but it
certainly means
>  something.
>
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:redhat-list-
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Otto Haliburton
>  > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:25 PM
>  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Subject: RE: GRUB failure
>  >
>  > I have a dual boot system with HDA containing XP PRO
and RH9 on HDB
>  > GRUB
>  > is the boot loader and it is written to the MBR or HDA
>  along with the
>  > XP
>  > boot loader.  I just removed HDB and guess what I got a
>  black screen
>  > with GRUB in the left hand corner.
>  >
>  > > -Original Message-
>  > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:redhat-list-
>  > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Schwendt
>  > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:59 PM
>  > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > Subject: Re: GRUB failure
>  > >
>  > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  > > Hash: SHA1
>  > >
>  > > On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:39:54 -0400, Kenneth Goodwin
wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > what I am saying is that the MBR may be crafted or
rebuild
>  > > > by anaconda for the two drive setup disk info.
>  > >
>  > > It's grub-install/grub that creates stage1 based on
the grub.conf
>  > > created by anaconda.
>  > >
>  > > > "Grub-install". which I have not seen admittedly,
may be based
>  > > > on a MAKE environment strategy. IF SO IT ONLY
REBUILDS The
>  > > > MBR if and only if some local disk file has changed
that a
>  > > > dependency has been declared for. It may not check
to see
>  > > > if the hardware environment changed. By cleansing
out the
>  > > > existing config
>  > > > info via a MAKE CLEAN or CLOBBER sequence , you
should force
>  > > > it to do a fresh
>  > > > rebuild from scratch on the MBR program which
should insert
>  > > > the new single drive related information. ie SO FAR
your
>  > > > newly written grub
>  > > > is the same image as the old grub that was on the
mbr to
>  > > > begin with.
>  > >
>  > > You can get rid of the generated files like this,
>  preferably after
>  > > removing slave drive and after booting with boot
disk:
>  > >
>  > >   rm /boot/grub/*1_5 /boot/grub/stage*
>  > >   grub-install --recheck --force-lba /dev/hda
>  > >
>  > > Option --force-lba might be interesting.
>  > >
>  > > - --
>  > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
>  > >
>  > >
iD8DBQE/Lp7Y0iMVcrivHFQRAoFkAJ0Z9nIV5jhIQgnmpDLuoJrbg43CgQCf
cEWT
>  > > LMknoC8k84oEiBhxdCtWxb0=
>  > > =y8mK
>  > > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > redhat-list mailing list
>  > > unsubscribe mailto:redhat-list-
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > redhat-list mailing list
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
>
>  >1 - this system had two IDE drives in it at Linux
>  >installation time.
>  >A (the MASTER) and B (The Slave), There is no SCSI, NO
>  >RAID, no LVM.  just a simple plain vanilla LINUX setup.
>  >
>  >
>
>  Nope.  The machine had ONE drive upon installation.
hdb wasn't
>  added till months later and was used only for storage of
>  backup files
>  (it doesn't even stay mounted all the time.)  This was
>  explained in a
>  previous email.
>

I stand corrected. I remember you now stating that,
sorry if I added to further confusion here,
but the correction does not change anything other than to
definitively prove your/our point that Drive B is not an
issue
in regards to GRUB. It is a side effect of it's removal from
the IDE Bus
that is behind your mystery and nothing else.

I think the Grub Developers might be interested in
discussing this with you.
Their code should not be having an issue here irregardless
of your
hardware changes. They probably have not come across
whatever the ROM BIOS
is presumably doing here before to mess things up. Maybe a
new grub tool
for floppy is in order here


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  > what I am saying is that the MBR may be crafted or
rebuild
>  > by anaconda for the two drive setup disk info.
>
>  It's grub-install/grub that creates stage1 based on the
grub.conf
>  created by anaconda.
>
>  > "Grub-install". which I have not seen admittedly, may
be based
>  > on a MAKE environment strategy. IF SO IT ONLY REBUILDS
The
>  > MBR if and only if some local disk file has changed
that a
>  > dependency has been declared for. It may not check to
see
>  > if the hardware environment changed. By cleansing out
the
>  > existing config
>  > info via a MAKE CLEAN or CLOBBER sequence , you should
force
>  > it to do a fresh
>  > rebuild from scratch on the MBR program which should
insert
>  > the new single drive related information. ie SO FAR
your
>  > newly written grub
>  > is the same image as the old grub that was on the mbr
to
>  > begin with.
>
>  You can get rid of the generated files like this,
preferably after
>  removing slave drive and after booting with boot disk:
>
>rm /boot/grub/*1_5 /boot/grub/stage*
>grub-install --recheck --force-lba /dev/hda
>
>  Option --force-lba might be interesting.

Especially if the MBR was originally created to use LBA
based IO routines
and the drive now thinks it's is something other than LBA
mode
or vise versa..

In any case, good luck Ashley.contact the grub
developers with your problem. They might be interested.




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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Otto we are not on the same page, perhaps this will help.
This is (perhaps) my
(MIS)Understanding that from having written and worked with
such bootloaders
but not personal expertise with GRUB That Grub is organized
in a manner such as -

Phase 1 - Grub MBR 512 byte initial boot loader - knows how
to get to Phase 1.5 only.
Phase 1.5 - Grub OS Loader Part one (OS filesystem
selector) Knows? os fs structures
Phase 2 - Grub OS Loader Part Two (OS loader, knows
particular OS FS structures)

Phase 1 the GRUB MBR DOES NOT KNOW THE OS FILE STRUCTURES.
It is too small a program to hold that level of knowledge
It deals in RAW DISK ONLY through the ROM BIOS disk IO code
mechanism.
Loaded and executed by the ROM BIOS boot strap code.

GRUB Phase 1.5 and/or Phase 2.0 IS the piece of GRUB That
knows about the
OS File structures, etc as you have stated. loaded and
executed by Grub MBR/Phase 1/

Mike and I are working on the Premise that Phase 1 (MBR) can
not find the Phase 1.5 (OSFS)
image on DRIVE A in order to load it. The drive and offset
info are hard coded low
level device references from a HARDWARE, not OS perspective,
IE. IT does not
know what a /dev/hda is. It only knows "select Drive 0,
Start loading 20 sectors starting
at LBA 14,208 (or Cylind 10, track 5, sector 4) into low ram
and execute the program.
The initial fresh GRUB INSTALL stuffs Phase 1.5/Phase 2
images into /boot, converts
their partition relative locations into physical drive
offsets and stores the info the MBR needs
into the MBR image when it builds them.


What we are trying to say is that something happens when
Ashley removes the drive such that
the BIOS and/or the Hard Drive A no longer maps to either
Drive 0 or the
Image being at LBA 14,208. Therefore the MBR Phase One boot
loader
fails to be able to load in the Phase 1.5 Loader.
However this is an ASSUMPTION, we could be loading in Phase
1.5 and dieing
before it spits out any text. But Mike is not seeing
any output from Ashley's tests that would indicate that
Phase 1.5 actually loaded.

We are not executing the piece of Grub that needs to know
about FS structures or OS
versions at this point, just the piece that loads that
piece.

the device.map has no references to /dev/hdb.
The scsi devices are in the same state as when he had a
single drive
and the original two drive setup.
The only variable is the addition or removal of drive B and
reconfiguring
the Drive A drive select jumper from Master-Slave to Single
drive configurations.

So the question becomes why does the removal of a single
drive not related to
the boot process cause the boot process to fail?

Unless we can prove that Phase one is successfully loading
Phase 1.5 and that phase 1.5
is actually failing, we can only go on the assumption that
Phase 1, the MBR, is failing to
load Phase 1.5 into memory. The only reason this type of
failure would happen
if Suddenly the hard coded device references in the MBR no
longer map as they should
to either the drive's ide bus address or if the stored
LBA/CTS information no longer
maps to the same physical disk area because something in the
BIOS that tells the MBR/BIOS
disk io routines what the drive looks like and how to read
data off of it
has changed. So the MBR actually reads the wrong disk blocks
off the hard drive
and grub then crashes trying to execute an invalid Phase 1.5
image.

In any case, this is really a dead thread at this point,
being all theory
and no real proof. If Ashley wishes to persue
this for the common good, he needs to take all of this to
the Grub Developers
Group and have them help him figure out what is really going
on here.
It may be an issue that may need to be addressed in a future
Grub Version release
so that no one else gets burnt Grub in the future.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Otto
Haliburton
>  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:00 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: GRUB failure
>
>
>  This is why you need to read the manual.  GRUB does know
the file
>  structures for the OS it boots the kernel for otherwise
it
>  chain loads
>  the boot loader for the other OS's.  Remember what GRUB
stands for.
>
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:redhat-list-
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenneth Goodwin
>  > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:51 AM
>  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Subject: RE: GRUB failure
>  >
>  > >  >
>  > >  > BIOS loads and starts the code from master boot
record,
>  > but code in
>  > >  > MBR fails to load stage1.5 which is located at a
fixed
>  > position on
>  > >  > hda. At that point, GRUB does not even know about
>  > >  "directories" yet,
>  > >  > since it is this later stage that would give
native
>  > access to ext2

RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  I think this goes too far, and I don't see what it would
change.
>  IIRC, it has been mentioned that grub-install works
flawlessly when
>  slave drive is available and even when slave drive is
removed and
>  system is booted with bootdisk. However, the newly
written GRUB then
>  fails in MBR as soon as slave drive is not available.
>
>

this was in response solely to Ashleys GRUB_INSTALLS not
apparently
having an effect - this is only a theory, but it seems a
reasonable explanation
frogive me if I am redundant here

what I am saying is that the MBR may be crafted or rebuild
by anaconda
for the two drive setup disk info. Anaconda may not be able
to go
backwards here, may not be able to undo in a return to
single drive
configuration - most people add hardware, not remove it, it
may have
not been a tested situation. "Something" changed on the
linux system
in response to the addition of the hard drive that is not
being undone
when he reboots with only one drive installed.

If the contents of the MBR in regards to the location of the
Phase 1.5 image
are the real issue here, then replacing it with a freshly
rebuilt version would
be required in order to correct the issue.

"Grub-install". which I have not seen admittedly, may be
based
on a MAKE environment strategy. IF SO IT ONLY REBUILDS The
MBR
if and only if some local disk file has changed that a
dependency
has been declared for. It may not check to see
if the hardware environment changed. By cleansing out the
existing config
info via a MAKE CLEAN or CLOBBER sequence , you should force
it to do a fresh
rebuild from scratch on the MBR program which should insert
the new single drive related information. ie SO FAR your
newly written grub
is the same image as the old grub that was on the mbr to
begin with.
You may have changed nothing by running grub-install in
regards to the MBR
image on sector 0. Ashley just rewrote the same 512 byte
block over and over again.

To rephrase, What I am saying is the copy of the MBR on
drive A is the same as the copy
of the MBR image on /boot that grub-install stuffs back onto
the MBR,
so all the grub installs changed nothing, just rewrote the
same info
over and over again unchanged for the new single drive
configuration
he was trying to configure for.. Popping the hard drive
on/off
changes the underlying hardware/bios info such that it
matched/"did not match" the
contents of the MBR. So it worked any time he had the drive
configuration
matching the corresponding info in the MBR.

One would need to rebuild the MBR based on the new single
drive architecture to
correct this issue - recompile from sources as it were after
booting to a single drive setup.


The boot floppy does not use the MBR, It is the MBR and
probably phase 1.5 as well
all rolled into one. So if you boot from it, you will boot
linux  from /boot directly
then do your grub-install which may just be writting the
same 512 byte image into the
MBR as IS ALREADY THERE.

I hope this is now clear


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  >
>  > BIOS loads and starts the code from master boot record,
but code in
>  > MBR fails to load stage1.5 which is located at a fixed
position on
>  > hda. At that point, GRUB does not even know about
>  "directories" yet,
>  > since it is this later stage that would give native
access to ext2
>  > fs. The reason that GRUB fails to access hda can be
that
>  BIOS uses a
>  > different method to access the drive, while GRUB maybe
gets a wrong
>  > drive Id and hence fails to find hda.
>  >
>  > However, Ashley has mentioned that this computer has
been working
>  > fine with a single drive for several months until hdb
was added.
>  > Only when hdb was removed, it started to malfunction.
So, if it's
>  > not a BIOS thing that confuses GRUB, I don't see why
GRUB
>  would fail
>  > loading from hda.
>
>  You haven't gotten the point of the question.  GRUB is in
>  the MBR from
>  the install.  It has a location to get to the GRUB
directory to load
>  stage1 (we know that stage1 and stage2 and all other
things
>  are in the
>  GRUB directory look them up yourself).  So it locates the
>  GRUB directory
>  to load stage1 then why would it now lose that location
to
>  load stage2.


GRUB MBR DOES NOT KNOW LINUX DIRECTORY STRUCTURES
GRUB MBR DOES NOT KNOW EXTFS Filesystems


ALL IT KNOWS is an PHYSICal offset into the disk to start
reading from and a count
of bytes to read. This is very low level stuff. where it is
reading from on the drive
is not where the phase 1.5 is. (Or phase 1.5 is having  a
similiar issue itself


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  >To those of you, who have the theory that GRUB is
loading stage1
>  > and can't load stage2 answer the question, "how it can
>  find stage1 and
>  > then can't find stage2?", when both are in the same
GRUB
>  directory.  It
>  > can not find the GRUB directory period.
>
>  BIOS loads and starts the code from master boot record,
but code in
>  MBR fails to load stage1.5 which is located at a fixed
position on
>  hda. At that point, GRUB does not even know about
"directories" yet,
>  since it is this later stage that would give native
access to ext2
>  fs. The reason that GRUB fails to access hda can be that
BIOS uses a
>  different method to access the drive, while GRUB maybe
gets a wrong
>  drive Id and hence fails to find hda.
>
>  However, Ashley has mentioned that this computer has been
working
>  fine with a single drive for several months until hdb was
added.
>  Only when hdb was removed, it started to malfunction. So,
if it's
>  not a BIOS thing that confuses GRUB, I don't see why GRUB
would fail
>  loading from hda.
>

I would presume when he added in the second drive, Anaconda
or something similiar came along and made the necessary
internal reference adjustments for the drive changes
that occured. maybe its not smart enough
to back them out when he pops the drive out.
Maybe its 1.5 that fails before it prints out a message?

In any case, talking is not going to find the cause,
He would need to debug it with grub itself
and playin garound with things
and it is a moot point to Ahsley for the moment as his
system is now operational again.

It would nice to know what the cause is so fixes could be
implemented
for future considerations.


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  - set hda's jumper back to master otherwise BIOS
>  complains and won't
>  boot
>  - shoved floppy in, booted up just fine
>  - ran grub-install /dev/hda, no errors
>  - removed floppy, reboot
>  - BIOS finds hda, knows there's no hdb, goes on to
boot
>  - black screen, with 'GRUB' in the corner: system
dead
>
>  I ran the same cycle again, this time issuing:
> grub-install --root-directory=/boot '(hd0)'
>  as the info page suggests.  Same result, won't boot,
dead system.
>


ASHLEY -   Your grub issue may be that

grub-install may only install an already compiled and loaded
version of the
MBR phase one piece. YOU MAy have to do a GRUB Make to
rebuild the
MBR piece with the new system architecture taken into
account..
Ie you were just  installing the same MBR as the existing
one, when what you need to
do is build a new single drive version of the MBR and
install that.

In a standard MAKE environment, Make install only rebuilds
the
executables if the sources they depend on have changed.
otherwise
they just install the compiled binary image already in the
directory
from the last full build.

In your case, you need to do the GRUB equiivalent of a "Make
clean"
which purges all the binarys and the executables
and then a "make install" to built the new binaries and
install them.

Michael S may know how to direct you there as he seems to
have more grub expertise than I
and may know the rebuild from scratch commands required.




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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Otto  -I think you are missing the big picture here and
Ashley can confirm it or
disprove me -

1 - this system had two IDE drives in it at Linux
installation time.
A (the MASTER) and B (The Slave), There is no SCSI, NO
RAID, no LVM.
just a simple plain vanilla LINUX setup.

2 - Linux was installed in its entirety along with grub as
the
boot loader onto Drive A

3 - NOTHING was loaded onto Drive B at time of linux
installation.

4 - Drive B was later used to store files and such.

5 - GRUB NEVER used any part of DRIVE B at any time during
it's lifetime It ONLY used
the contents of DRIVE A to boot from.

6 - DRIVE B Crashed. Upon removal of drive b from the ide
chain, Ashley found HIMSELF
with a totally unbootable system for absolutely no sane
reason. The only drive he needed
for booting was Drive A which was still intact.

7 - this is proven by the addition of a replacement BLANK
Drive
B which then cured his system.

8 - GRUB is not trying to load anything from Drive B. The
Phase one half of GRUB ,
stored on the boot block of Drive A (MBR), can not find the
Phase 1.5 part of Grub
also stored on drive A because it's concept of
where that information is stored has been altered by the
ROM BIOS's changed perception
of the drive layout info for Drive A. This changed
perception , probably the
address of the drive or its geometry, is being caused by the
changes in
the drive select jumpers required by DRIVE A
when a SLAVE drive is removed or added onto the chain.

9 - The system can ALWAYS load the MBR because it is always
on BLOCK 0
or Cylinder Track and Sector 0
on the disk drive. It is a known fixed location which does
not change
even if drive geometrys are changed. The ROM BIOS on the
Motherboard loads
this single disk block into RAM and executes it.
It prints out "GRUB" to let you know it is there, then
attempts to locate the /boot partition start on the hard
drive to load Phase 1.5 which is the real OS Bootstrap
program.

10 - The MBR "KNOWS" where phase 1.5 is because the location
of the start of the
the /boot partition and phase 1.5 is HARDCODED into the MBR
program when it is
built and placed on the boot block.
The MBR merely know to go some far into the disk and read.
If You change the offset of /boot on the harddrive
by resizing the parition spaces between cylinder 0 and where
ever /boot originally started at
you trash the MBR's ability to find Phase 1.5 for the same
reason - you relocated Phase 1.5
on the drive and did not tell the MBR. The MBR uses the same
IO code the DOS bootstraps
use and has their same constraints about maximum Logical
block or
CTS values.

11 - the issue here is that somehow removing the drive b and
changing the drive select
on DRIVE A changes
where everything but where block 0 is located on the disk
drive. I dont know why, have
not read the GRUB sources or how as
I cant see his machine - his drives would normally be
LOGICAL BLOCK ADDRESSED,maybe
CTS addressed, but somehow, and only Ashley can figure this
out, the BIOS view of
the drive changes when he changes the drive select jumper.
And it is the BIOS DISK IO routines
that are normally used by the MBR boot strap to read the
disk contents.
The MBR is a sector long program which means at best it can
be 512 bytes long.

Lets take this to a CTS (Cylinder TRACK and SECTOR) View of
the hard drive -
I dont know if you program, but if you do -
View CTS as indices into a three dimensional Matrix. The
base address of the matrix
is always at the same address no matter what.
Think of Cylinders are Rings on a Tree, Tracks as fixed
horizontal slices
through the tree (like slicing a banana,) and sectors as pie
slices across DIVIDING UP
the surface OF A SINGLE TRACK and replicated down through
all the tracks

Boot Block/MBR - LOCATED at CTS 0-0-0  array[0][0][0]

Phase 1.5 bootstrap located at CTS 50-0-10 to 50-129-16,  50
cylinders
into the hard drive. array[50][129][10] is the start

The drive's geometry is currently 1024 cylinders, 256 tracks
per cylinder
and 512 sectors per track. array is of dimension
[1024][256]512]

IDE drives have had the ability to remap
the same physical disk geometry into many virtual disk
geometries.

If we shift the the drive via internal map settings OR
through manual
configuration tell the ROM BIOS that this disk is now say
512 cylinders,
512 tracks per cylinder and 512 sectors per track, CTS
50-129-10 will no longer
be addressed by the drive to the same physical location on
the disk.
array is now dimensioned as [512][512][512]. what was at
50-0-10 is not there
now, ITS PROBABLY NOW ADDRESSED AS   100-129-10.
(A SINGLE LOGICAL CYLINDER ON THE DISK MAY NOW BE COMPOSED
OF TWO
ADJACENT PHYSICAL CYLINDERS)

The ISSUE - THE MBR is hardcoded with the 50-0-10 address
and does not know to
double the cylinder count to get to where it needs to be.

This is one possibility, the other is that the MBR has a
base address to the drive controller
itself that references nothing once the drive select jumpers
change to

RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Ashley

Are the drive  Manufacturers different?
Although EIDE is supposed to be a standard
manufacturers will tend to do their own thing in regards to
jumpers and how things behave.
You could be running into such an issue here and it will
affect how the drives respond
on the control line/ide-cmd responses to the BIOS reset and
query sequences.

You see on a normal EIDE drive, you should have either had
to change jumpers to  single drive mode
or leave it as master. It should not impact what the drive
looks like or is addressed
as being the master. The jumpers control only the drives
behaviour in response to the drive select lines.

In any case, the consensus seems to be at the moment, that
the issue here is how the
BIOS perceives the layout and/or addressing for your master
drive when you change
configurations between master-slave  and single drive
setups. It seems to be a BIOS or drive firmware issue. There
may be nothing you can do to cure it. Using drives from the
same
manufacturer may help as it is the drives that interact
based on master slave. The controller just
turns on a  drive select bit hooked to a control cable lead
usually to select one or the other
drive. -the drives/jumpers determine who responses as master
or slave. with the same
manufacturer you can generally be assured that the drives
will behave in the same way.
Your A drive is apparently a model in which the drive has to
BE Single, Master or Slave
some drives allow for MAster to also be the definition for
single
On top of this your MB bios seems to have a feature by which
it's on board ide controllers
treats a single drive setup differently from a dual drive
setup, changing the perceive drive addressing enough to
confuse grub phase 1

The only real concrete suggestion possible here is to make
sure your motherboard and the drives ide controller firmware
are all up to the latest revision levels. Dont assume just
because
you bought it a short tiem ago it will be because it might
have been on the shelf for a year
and be down two revisions from the current level.

there might be a way to get grub to rebuild it's MBR boot
strap based on the single drive configuration if you setup a
floppy/cdrom boot program to do that. short of a partial
reinstall of Linux
restricted to just the MBR

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ashley
M. Kirchner
>  Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:37 AM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: GRUB failure
>
>
>  brian davison wrote:
>
>  >Ashley...  try not changing the drive to single...
leave
>  it as the Master.
>  >( as in  "don't change the jumper when removing the
second drive")
>  >
>  >
>  No can do.  hda has three settings on it: Master,
Master
>  w/ Slave,
>  and Slave.  Since hdb was installed, it's been set to
Master
>  w/ Slave
>  (leaving it as Master resulted in hdb not being detected
by
>  the BIOS.)
>   Consequently, removing hdb without changing the jumper
on
>  hda resulted
>  in the machine not booting because the BIOS expected a
slave
>  since hda's
>  jumper was set as such.
>
>  Mind you, I've played with this a whole lot already,
and it just
>  doesn't work with just leaving the jumper alone and not
>  changing it.  If
>  I leave it set to Master, the BIOS won't see hdb.  If I
leave it on
>  Master w/ Slave, the BIOS complains about not seeing a
slave
>  (when hdb
>  gets removed.)  So I had to change that anyway.
>
>  PS: Ashley's a guy.
>
>  --
>  H| I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape
somewhere.
>
>
+---
-
>Ashley M. Kirchner    .
>  303.442.6410 x130
>IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith .
>  800.441.3873 x130
>Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.. 3550
>  Arapahoe Ave. #6
>http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..   Boulder, CO
>  80303, U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
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RE: GRUB Failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>
>  Remember. You can boot with a floppy and everything works
correctly

But you are not using the MBR on DRIVE A when you do that
and you are probably
using the entire GRUB package on the floppy disk. This means
that grub phase two
launched from the floppy
can recognize the filesystem on drive A and presumably load
the kernel
from there ( i am assuming the boot floppy does not contain
the OS image
which may not be true.)  The kernel (from where ever it
launches from will autodetect the new hardware layout
and presumably adjust how it accesses the hard drive.

In any case, time to go home.

>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  On Behalf Of Kenneth Goodwin
>  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 6:59 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: GRUB Failure
>
>  >
>  >Well I'm not so sure about that.. whenever GRUB
doesn't
>  >  find it's grub.conf file,
>  >  it just enters it's CLI mode from where you can do
things
>  >  manually. This is not the
>  >  problem.
>  >I've had the same situation happen to me with LILO,
>  when I
>  >  first installed RH,
>  >  , and one fine day for no reason at all it happened to
>  GRUB
>  >  too.. I fixed it with
>  >  grub-install /dev/hda, but always wondered how could
GRUB
>  be
>  >  so unstable. This is
>  >  the kind of problem that happens for no reason at all
and
>  >  will make a regular user
>  >  lose his mind.. wish I could help more;
>  >
>  >  --
>  >  Herculano de Lima Einloft Neto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>  I wonder if the real issue in this case is that the ROM
Bios
>  and/or drive
>  firmware involved here has a bug in it and it is acting
>  wierd
>  under certain circumstances and changing the boot time
>  definitions of what
>  the drive configuration/access mode/ geometry is on the
fly?
>  Such that the MBR cant find the /boot partition because
the
>  drive address
>  and/or geometry definition has suddenly changed or
something
>  along that line of
>  thought??
>
>  Did you check for firmware upgrades for your motherboard
and
>  disk drives
>  at the time?
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
>  unsubscribe
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>
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  This has certainly sparked an interesting
conversation,
>  and aside
>  from me trying everything everyone has suggested here, I
>  don't know what
>  else to do than to just say 'fuck it'.  It works with hdb
in place.
>   There is, to me, no logical explanation as to why grub
would just
>  decide to not boot after removing a drive it never
depended
>  on in the
>  first place.  Another mystery of life.  Thanks to all who
>  tried to help.
>


Please Dont go, we are not done playing with you
yet... :-}

Have you checked for Motherboard and disk drive firmware
upgrades
on the respective manufacturers web sites? I think your
problem lies at the primitive level of the rom bios
and not with linux or grub. They are just the innocent
victims.

The Grub-ette (MBR) can not find the Mega-Grub (Phase two
under /boot)
because the B drive removal must be doing something in  the
bios that
makes drive A look different from how it looks with drive b
present.
In fact different from how it looked when you had a single
drive
setup originally.

The real question is WHY because this is far from normal and
you may
be running with unstable "BAD BAD" firmware here that will
whack you
again somewhere else down the road


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  Let refine my answer to it can't find the grub directory
period.

The MBR is not even finding the start of the secondary
loader here.

Perhaps it all happens too fast -

Does the drive light flicker when it tries to load phase two
or not? If no disk activity after the initial MBR load is
seen
then the MBR cant find the drive, if the MBR loads and then
accesses
the disk drive again, then it fails to locate phase 2
because the disk geometry has somehow changed from what it
was.



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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  > What I did notice is there wasn't a /boot
>  > partition in the listing that was sent
>
>  You don't need a /boot partition. The grub.conf was
>  perfectly valid with
>  /dev/hda1 = (hd0,0) being the root partition and
containing the /boot
>  directory.
>
>  The code from MBR fails to load GRUB main program on
primary master
>  drive. Either because it can't access the disk at all or
>  because of disk
>  geometry confusion it loads and executes wrong sectors
which
>  causes the
>  machine to hang.
>
>  And since /dev/hdb doesn't appear in device.map, /dev/hdb
>  was not even
>  known at install time.
>
>

Precisely my point, the issue is that  toggling drive B
on/off the
ide bus is changing how the hardware sees drive A in a way
that
is not compatible with the original single drive A
configuration at original OS installation time..

Grub is not broken, the drive is not broken,
We have a ide bus, bios, or other hardware issue that
impacts
the identity and/or disk definitions of drive A.

In other words, popping drive b off the system does not put
you back into Kansas with Auntie Em Dorothy, but instead

you land smack right into the Twilight Zone.


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RE: GRUB Failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>Well I'm not so sure about that.. whenever GRUB doesn't
>  find it's grub.conf file,
>  it just enters it's CLI mode from where you can do things
>  manually. This is not the
>  problem.
>I've had the same situation happen to me with LILO,
when I
>  first installed RH,
>  , and one fine day for no reason at all it happened to
GRUB
>  too.. I fixed it with
>  grub-install /dev/hda, but always wondered how could GRUB
be
>  so unstable. This is
>  the kind of problem that happens for no reason at all and
>  will make a regular user
>  lose his mind.. wish I could help more;
>
>  --
>  Herculano de Lima Einloft Neto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I wonder if the real issue in this case is that the ROM Bios
and/or drive
firmware involved here has a bug in it and it is acting
wierd
under certain circumstances and changing the boot time
definitions of what
the drive configuration/access mode/ geometry is on the fly?
Such that the MBR cant find the /boot partition because the
drive address
and/or geometry definition has suddenly changed or something
along that line of
thought??

Did you check for firmware upgrades for your motherboard and
disk drives
at the time?


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

weird thought 

>  switching her disk geometry scheme to LBA and
re-installing GRUB should
>

I did not see her? original psoting so I dont
know exactly what her two drive setup was.

But I thought most systems were running LBA mode by default
now adays.

Perhaps the setup had two different configurations on the
hard drives
LBA on one, something else on the other  SAY LBA on Drive B,
and XYZ on Drive A and the result is that the BIOS gets
confused
pulling out drive B now and sets drive A to be LBA mode
instead of
XYZ mode making it impossible for MBR to locate the /boot
partition
on drive a because the disk geometry definition in the rom
bios table
just chnaged from what the real drive is set up as. You can
always
load the MBR because it is always logical block 0   CTS
0-0-0 on the drive.

any case, just another whacky theory to consider.


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  Ashley said that was done as well as changed the hardware
to
>  single boot
>  disk from master/slave.  The only solution seems to be
reinstall hdb
>  which indicates to me that it is not hardware related but
>  something is
>  causing the partitions to be changed. There maybe some
link or
>  something.  What I did notice is there wasn't a /boot
>  partition in the
>  listing that was sent


The new Drive B was apparently "Blank", but fixed the
problem
which in my mind points to the BIOS doing something to the
hardware
level address to shift the drive A address away from the
canned value
stored within the MBR.

GRUB wont care about partition tables or the fdisk drive
slices
in the MBR section, it is too small a program to have too
much
filesystem intelligence. It just needs to know which disk
drive and how
far in to reach the binary for the second phase and how much
to load off the drive.
It will copy itself to higher ram, load the phase two image
into Ram address 0
and execute it via a BRANCH 0 instruction. Phase two does
all the real load work.

Anyone know for certain who is printing out the INitial GRUB
message?

The MBR or phase two piece.

If youi know grub internals, then translate this theory into
the reality of GRUB
and see where that leads us (and hopefully not straight into
/dev/null :-} )


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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  Maybe I misunderstand here, but this seems to be a
situation
>  where -
>
>   A working Linux system using GRUB with MBR on HD-A,
.conf
>  file on HD-A
>   had a new disk drive HD-B added to it.
>
>   They did nothing apparently to reconfigure the box
>  bootwise.
>   They added the filesystems onto HD-B and used them for
>  whatever.
>
>   HD-B croaked.
>
>   When they removed HD-B from the ide BUS, things with
GRUB
>  broke
>   AND THEY DONT UNDERSTAND WHY?
>
>   Since everything for GRUB should be on HD-A which is
still
>  operational.
>   Grub should not have a problem locating the .conf file
>  since it should still
>   exist on HD-A.
>
>  Why would GRUB whose ENTIRE RESOURCES SHOULD BE STILL
INTACT
>  On DRIVE A
>  fail to work when DRIVE B is Removed from the IDE Chain?
>  >  >
>  >  > > The problem is, I have understood the problem.
You
>  >  can't boot when GRUB
>  >  > > can't find grub.conf.
>  >  >
>  >  > GRUB doesn't even come that far as was explained in
the
>  first
>  >  > message.
>  >  >
>  >  > If it booted into GRUB shell and then wouldn't find
the
>  >  config file,
>  >  > that would be a minor problem.
>  >  >
>  >  > > You can when it can.  When you remove hdb GRUB
>  >  > > can't find the .conf file and that is why you
can't
>  boot.
>

>>OTTO's REPLY 
>  I agree with the what you are saying.  Something is
changing
>  when HDB is
>  removed.  I don't know what.  I can tell you that the
same thing will
>  happen if you add/delete a partition on 'HAD'.  We
>  conjectured that it
>  could be hardware, but they say its not so I don't know,
but
>  we do know
>  for a fact that it can't locate the .conf file by what
projection has
>  taken place.  It could be as simple as the partition are
being
>  renumbered or as complicated as a GRUB problem.  But the
addition and
>  removal of the drive is changing something.

I have not seen grub source, but Grub is apparently a
multi-load phase boot loader,
the MBR piece loads the rest of the boot loader
off of the /boot partition which then loads the OS etc.

Okay, Most boot loaders do not record things as Partition
numbers in the MBR piece.
Ie from an OS / LINUX perspective of hardware, it wont be
/dev/hda00 or whatever
in the MBR.

Instead, It will be hardcoded as a disk drive number from a
hardware perspective
IDE Controller, unit select info, the stuff you see in the
messages file
during boot and a
Block offset on the disk from whence to start looking for
the superblock.
This will be the first block number on the ide disk that
/boot starts physically at.

However, The MBR record should have the correct pointers to
the
HD-A drive and /boot partition since the system was
initially setup that way.
If you stick drive B back on the bus and change nothing
else, things work again
from what I understand here. I think your GRUB prompt is
coming out of the MBR piece
but you would have to check the source code.

Since the /boot filesystem
is where the CONF file and the rest of grub is apparently
located and is supposed
to be the first partition on the drive this should always
work.


Now if you make /boot further in on the drive and then
change the sizes of the partition(s)
before the /boot partition and dont tell grub's MBR piece
about the change
you will have the kinda problem that Otto apparently had
with Grub, thats because
grub cant find the real start of the /boot partition since
the block offset into the
disk just changed. Otto would have to confirm that was the
case in his situation.

I think that Otto was on the right track, but was not
explaining his position clearly.
The issue here is apparently why does adding in Drive B Not
mess up
the MBR's sense of where Drive A is on the IDE chain , but
when drive B is removed
the MBR can't find drive A.

There must be a radical shift in how the BIOS is dealing
with the drives
since the original create of LINUX in a single drive
configuration, the addition
of the second drive and subsequent removal there of.

(Of course, this is only a theory mind you...)

Sort of an example to give you the idea of where I am going
here -

At Create time of LINUX

Drive A - bus address 123456 - recorded that way in MBR

Add in Drive B
ROM BIOS reconfiguration of it's device tables.

Drive A - bus address 123456  MBR points to 123456
Drive B - bus address 123455

Remove drive B -

ROM BIOS reconfiguration of it's device tables.

Drive A - bus address 123454   MBR points to 123456

Rom Bios loads MBR, MBR tries to load rest of Grub
from disk at bus address 123456 and fails
(no such device or address since BIOS changed the base
address
of drive A for whatever reason during reconfiguration.)

reinstall driv

RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Update, forgot one little detail.

>
>  Maybe I misunderstand here, but this seems to be a
situation
>  where -
>
>   A working Linux system using GRUB with MBR on HD-A,
.conf
>  file on HD-A
>   had a new disk drive HD-B added to it.
>
>   They did nothing apparently to reconfigure the box
>  bootwise.
>   They added the filesystems onto HD-B and used them for
>  whatever.
>
>   HD-B croaked.
>
>   When they removed HD-B from the ide BUS, things with
GRUB
>  broke
>   AND THEY DONT UNDERSTAND WHY?
And this is important.

AND IF they put a new hard drive back for HD-B,
grub then works fine with no changes to HD-A

>
>   Since everything for GRUB should be on HD-A which is
still
>  operational.
>   Grub should not have a problem locating the .conf file
>  since it should still
>   exist on HD-A.
>
>   So Otto, please explain why GRUB cant find the .conf
file
>  in this case
>   since it was never on the HD-B drive in the first place?
>
>   Does it copy a backup to new drives upon boot?
>   Does it "know" about new drives and get whacked out when
it
>  cant find them?
>
>  Why would GRUB whose ENTIRE RESOURCES SHOULD BE STILL
INTACT
>  On DRIVE A
>  fail to work when DRIVE B is Removed from the IDE Chain?
>
>  FYI, I am a UNIX systems programmer with 20 years of
source
>  code kernel level expertise
>  for UNIX V6 through SysV and BSD including Pyramids OSX.
>  I understand about boot loaders, have written them, and I
>  dont know why
>  they are having a problem here unless it is either
>   a hardware issue
>   a "uniqueness" in Grub that causes it to fail when
hardware
>  it does
>   not need to boot from disappears.
>
>  Perhaps the problem owner can explain what I am
>  misunderstanding here?
>
>
>
>  >  On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 16:49, Michael Schwendt wrote:
>  >  > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  >  > Hash: SHA1
>  >  >
>  >  > On 01 Aug 2003 16:41:17 -0500, Otto Haliburton
wrote:
>  >  >
>  >  > > The problem is, I have understood the problem.
You
>  >  can't boot when GRUB
>  >  > > can't find grub.conf.
>  >  >
>  >  > GRUB doesn't even come that far as was explained in
the
>  first
>  >  > message.
>  >  >
>  >  > If it booted into GRUB shell and then wouldn't find
the
>  >  config file,
>  >  > that would be a minor problem.
>  >  >
>  >  > > You can when it can.  When you remove hdb GRUB
>  >  > > can't find the .conf file and that is why you
can't
>  boot.
>  >  >
>  >  > As was shown, the config file is on /dev/hda1 and
>  /dev/hdb does not
>  >  > appear anywhere.
>  >  >
>  >  > - --
>  >  > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  >  > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
>  >  >
>  >  >
>
iD8DBQE/KuBg0iMVcrivHFQRAi4nAJ4/hOWZw+ZQi5jwybAgZQVEnjsMNgCf
>  f5p1
>  >  > 8+i+mKCfBFF6sUAbDcIieQA=
>  >  > =E7F/
>  >  > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>  >  >
>  >
>  >
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  Again, you're not understanding the problem.  When you
boot
>  you transfer
>  to the MBR which loads GRUB.  GRUB then loads the config
>  file and prints
>  the boot images and identifies to itself where the
kernels images are
>  located.  When you select one it transfers to that kernel
image
>  location. Sines it can't find the .conf file it has
nothing
>  to post so
>  it crashes.
>
>

Maybe I misunderstand here, but this seems to be a situation
where -

A working Linux system using GRUB with MBR on HD-A, .conf
file on HD-A
had a new disk drive HD-B added to it.

They did nothing apparently to reconfigure the box
bootwise.
They added the filesystems onto HD-B and used them for
whatever.

HD-B croaked.

When they removed HD-B from the ide BUS, things with GRUB
broke
AND THEY DONT UNDERSTAND WHY?

Since everything for GRUB should be on HD-A which is still
operational.
Grub should not have a problem locating the .conf file
since it should still
exist on HD-A.

So Otto, please explain why GRUB cant find the .conf file
in this case
since it was never on the HD-B drive in the first place?

Does it copy a backup to new drives upon boot?
Does it "know" about new drives and get whacked out when it
cant find them?

Why would GRUB whose ENTIRE RESOURCES SHOULD BE STILL INTACT
On DRIVE A
fail to work when DRIVE B is Removed from the IDE Chain?

FYI, I am a UNIX systems programmer with 20 years of source
code kernel level expertise
for UNIX V6 through SysV and BSD including Pyramids OSX.
I understand about boot loaders, have written them, and I
dont know why
they are having a problem here unless it is either
a hardware issue
a "uniqueness" in Grub that causes it to fail when hardware
it does
not need to boot from disappears.

Perhaps the problem owner can explain what I am
misunderstanding here?



>  On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 16:49, Michael Schwendt wrote:
>  > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  > Hash: SHA1
>  >
>  > On 01 Aug 2003 16:41:17 -0500, Otto Haliburton wrote:
>  >
>  > > The problem is, I have understood the problem.  You
>  can't boot when GRUB
>  > > can't find grub.conf.
>  >
>  > GRUB doesn't even come that far as was explained in the
first
>  > message.
>  >
>  > If it booted into GRUB shell and then wouldn't find the
>  config file,
>  > that would be a minor problem.
>  >
>  > > You can when it can.  When you remove hdb GRUB
>  > > can't find the .conf file and that is why you can't
boot.
>  >
>  > As was shown, the config file is on /dev/hda1 and
/dev/hdb does not
>  > appear anywhere.
>  >
>  > - --
>  > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
>  >
>  >
iD8DBQE/KuBg0iMVcrivHFQRAi4nAJ4/hOWZw+ZQi5jwybAgZQVEnjsMNgCf
f5p1
>  > 8+i+mKCfBFF6sUAbDcIieQA=
>  > =E7F/
>  > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>  >
>
>
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RE: [RH List] RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  >Did ya change the master/slave jumper on the HDa drive
to
>  >single drive when you removed
>  >the hdb drive by any chance? Is this a compaq by any
chance
>  >that would now prefer you switched to cable select? Does
the
>  >drive show up in the bios?
>  >
>  >does it actually try to boot?
>  >
>  >
>
>  Hardware wise, everything checks out.  Without the
>  second drive, hda
>  gets set to master (jumper gets removed), and with it
gets
>  set to master
>  with slave, and hdb set as slave.  (I don't believe in
cable select
>  because it caused me more problems that it's worth.)  And
>  no, it's not
>  an inferior Compaq.  BIOS wise, everything checks out
again.
>   It sees
>  what it has and moves on.  And yes, it does try to boot
up
>  which is how
>  I get the GRUB line on the screen, but nothing else.
>
>  Dropping the boot floppy in the system, it boots
fine.
>  And now that
>  I've reinstalled hdb, it all works again, however as soon
as I
>  disconnect it (and revert all jumper and bios settings
back
>  to single
>  drive), grub fails.
>
>  [ answering your second message here as well ]
>
>  >Maybe grub knows about the second drive through Kudzu
>  >finding it or something,
>  >
>  Kudzu's not installed on the machine.

substitute anaconda for kudzu...

>
>  >it is listed in grubs config file and grubs barfs when
it
>  >cant find it
>  >
>  Do you see it listed in grubs config (which I posted
>  earlier)?  I
>  certainly don't.

unfortuantely I did not see that earlier posting like i said
in my first posting
so no I did not.

In any case, perhaps grub utilizes another file that
has the hardware configuration defined in it and
hangs when it detects a disk drive change due to confusion..
I suggest your answer lies with the people that wrote grub
unless you care to read the source yourself.


>
>  --
>  W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape
somewhere.
>
>
+---
-
>Ashley M. Kirchner    .
>  303.442.6410 x130
>IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith .
>  800.441.3873 x130
>Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.. 3550
>  Arapahoe Ave. #6
>http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..   Boulder, CO
>  80303, U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Maybe grub knows about the second drive through Kudzu
finding it or something,
it is listed in grubs config file and grubs barfs when it
cant find it
even though it is irrelavant, if true then this is a
probably a bug in grub
(pun intended)

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ashley
M. Kirchner
>  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:52 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: GRUB failure
>
>
>  Michael Schwendt wrote:
>
>  >Interesting. I had hoped to find hd0 and hd1 being
swapped and GRUB
>  >trying to access hda with the drive id of hdb. Provided
that it is
>  >not a hardware problem (master/slave configuration on
hda), boot
>  >with boot disk or rescue mode and run "grub-install
/dev/hda" as
>  >root. That should fix it.
>  >
>  Hardware wise, everything checks out.  BIOS wise,
>  everything checks
>  out.  And I did try re-installing grub again, but that
didn't help
>  either.  As it is, this is fast becoming a moot point
since the
>  replacement drive is in and the machine boots as it
should
>  again.  Once
>  again, let me make it clear: there is absolutely NOTHING
on hdb1.  I
>  created the partition and formatted it, nothing else.
Now
>  Grub boots
>  again.  As soon as I disconnect the drive (and update the
>  BIOS,) grub fails.
>
>
>  --
>  W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape
somewhere.
>
>
+---
-
>Ashley M. Kirchner    .
>  303.442.6410 x130
>IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith .
>  800.441.3873 x130
>Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.. 3550
>  Arapahoe Ave. #6
>http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..   Boulder, CO
>  80303, U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
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RE: GRUB failure

[Kenneth Goodwin]

I missed your previous input and you cut out all the running
dialog
so i have no clue as to what has already been discussed , so
soorry
for anything stupid here... but here's two cents worth

Sort sounds like your hardware configuration is not correct
anymore, like
you forgot to undo something you changed when you installed
the second drive.

Did ya change the master/slave jumper on the HDa drive to
single drive when you removed
the hdb drive by any chance? Is this a compaq by any chance
that would now prefer you switched to cable select? Does the
drive show up in the bios?

does it actually try to boot?

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ashley
M. Kirchner
>  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:45 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: GRUB failure
>
>
>  Otto Haliburton wrote:
>
>  >Let's analyze it.  Grub needs the grub.conf file.  You
>  deleted hdb and
>  >now Grub can't find the .conf file.  So you need to do
>  something that
>  >points GRUB to grub.conf.  So maybe you had a link or
something else
>  >that pointed GRUB to the .conf file.
>  >
>  You're not reading everything I'm telling you guys:
THERE IS
>  NOTHING ON hdb!  Everything is on hda.  hdb is completely
devoid of
>  information but for the lost+found folder, nothing else.
In
>  fact, when
>  the system was originally installed, it ONLY had hda, and
it
>  worked fine
>  and booted fine.  Months later I added hdb as a backup
>  drive, and used
>  it to manually copy stuff from one drive to the other.
Nothing was
>  moved, no partitions changed, all the system files and OS
in general
>  stayed on hda.  As time went by, we started shuffling
things
>  around on
>  the OTHER drives you see in the df output, hdb was never
>  made an active
>  partition, except for when it was needed for backup.  Now
>  that I removed
>  it, grub's not booting.
>
>  --
>  W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape
somewhere.
>
>
+---
-
>Ashley M. Kirchner    .
>  303.442.6410 x130
>IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith .
>  800.441.3873 x130
>Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.. 3550
>  Arapahoe Ave. #6
>http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..   Boulder, CO
>  80303, U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  redhat-list mailing list
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RE: Print the first column of a file

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Depends on what the lines actually look like, check man/info
pages but you  could

Try  cut -f1 filename | sort | uniq

you need to sort it first prior to UNIQ.


>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Barry
Johnson
>  Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:31 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: RE: Print the first column of a file
>
>
>  Awk is something that you could you
>
>  More $filename|awk '{print $1}'|uniq  will sort through
the file and
>  print the first column
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  On Behalf Of Mark Neidorff
>  Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:48 AM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: Print the first column of a file
>
>
>  On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Reuben D. Budiardja wrote:
>
>  >
>  > Hello,
>  > What command would I use to print just the first column
of
>  a file? For
>  > example, the httpd (apache) access_log. The first
column
>  contains the
>  IP
>  > address. How can I just output that, so that I can then
pass it to
>  "uniq" to
>  > get the uniques IP addresses that requested a page from
my server?
>  > Like:
>  >
>  > $>  | uniq
>  >
>  > Does this use something like 'sed' or 'gawk'? I need to
>  learn how to
>  > use those
>  > anyways :)
>  >
>  > Thanks for any help.
>  > RDB
>  >
>
>  Take a look at the 'cut' command.
>
>  Mark
>
>
>  --
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>
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RE: Simple AWK question

[Kenneth Goodwin]

I dont have my GAWK manual handy, but I think your problem may
be that you are using SPRINTF which is a print to string function
as in  str = sprintf() rather than something like  fprintf() or printf()

I would expect that the format overall would be

INPUT_SOURCE | awk -f awk-script_file > outputfile

and awk-script_file
would contain your awk code
including something like

printf("\"%s\",\"%s\"\n", SiteVal, CustomerID);

or the %c format illustrated below...

The syntax error may not be the "'s, but your use of sprintf and the more
PERL Like
>> "filename" . These constructs may have been added in GAWK, but they were
not in
the original AWK as far as I can remember.

Check the manual.

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vidiot
>  Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:06 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: Simple AWK question
>
>
>  >I suppose you could try
>  >sprintf("%c%s%c,%c%s%c\n", '"', SiteVal, '"', '"',
>  CustomerID, '"') >>
>  >"outputfile"
>
>  awk: syntax error near line 13
>  awk: illegal statement near line 13
>  awk: newline in string near line 13
>
>  It is definatly baffling.
>
>  MB
>  --
>  e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/~\
>  The ASCII
>   \ /
>  Ribbon Campaign
>  [So it's true, scythe matters.  Willow  5/12/03]  X  Against
>  Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/  / \
>  HTML Email
>
>
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RE: Simple AWK question

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
>  In all my years of using awk, this is the first time I've
>  ever had to output
>  a " character to a file.  For example, I have the following:
>
>   sprintf("%s,%s\n", SiteVal, CustomerID) >> "outputfile"

I suppose you could try
sprintf("%c%s%c,%c%s%c\n", '"', SiteVal, '"', '"', CustomerID, '"') >>
"outputfile"

A little hokey, but should work..


>
>
>  I need the line in the output file to look like:
>
>   "SiteVal","CustomerID"
>
>  I've tried "\"%s\",\"%s\"\n", but get a syntax error.  Instead of \",
>  I've tried \042 and still get a syntax error.  I've tried
>  adding another %s and
>  supplying \" and \042 as the string, only to get errors.
>
>  How does one get sprintf in awk to oputput a " character?
>  The man page for
>  sprintf doesn't say how to do it either.
>
>  Thanks.
>
>  MB
>  --
>  e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/~\
>  The ASCII
>   \ /
>  Ribbon Campaign
>  [So it's true, scythe matters.  Willow  5/12/03]  X  Against
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>  HTML Email
>
>
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RE: Can't listen to my CDs. Need to rip them.

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>
just a thought,maybe already explored, probably dumb, but did you plug
the speakers into the line out jack on your sound card or the wrong jack.
  
>  Ok.
>  
>  Following the suggestion of Fred I plugged the headphones 
>  and it works (good 
>  idea, I should have think of it). I can hear the song, but 
>  nothing comes out 
>  of the speakers.
>  
>  I believe now - as many of you suggested - it is a problem 
>  with the audio 
>  cable. I will open the box this weekend, I have to upgrade 
>  the memory anyway, 
>  and I will let you know.
>  
>  Thanks everybody,
>  Ricardo
>  
>  PS: It's a new machine. I never installed Windows on it.


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RE: dhcp - max lease time

[Kenneth Goodwin]

>  
>  
>  > {
>  > hardware Ethernet 00:00:00:00:00:00;
>  > fixed-address 10.x.x.x;
>  > }
>  
>  Hi,
>  
>  I was hoping to avoid this as I've 60+ clients (and
>  new ones coming and going weekly) and don't want to
>  know there MAC addy.  Howver, it looks as if this may
>  be the only way to do it :(
>  
>  I know that with the Winblowz DHCP server service, I
>  can assign infinite lease times so when the clients
>  pull an addy, it knows not to pull again.
>  
>  Bri-
>  PS  I have ddns updating the DNS records and man, it
>  looks sloppy. 
> 

never mind the previous static ip question / suggestion
man page for dhcpd states it supports INFINITE lease times.
Can not find the spec for it in the other doc, suggest you
read the source code. It is probably a ZERO or -1 or some huge number
for the value of default-lease-time; 


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RE: dhcp - max lease time

[Kenneth Goodwin]

Why dont you just turn off DHCP and assign static IP's?
You are achieving the same thing. Do you plan to move the systems?

>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Williams
>  Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 2:29 PM
>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Subject: Re: dhcp - max lease time
>  
>  
>  On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 14:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  > Hi,
>  > 
>  > For permanent leases or leases that I wish to never
>  > expire, what should I modify in /etc/dhcpd.conf?
>  > 
>  > The man pages don't mention permanent or infinite
>  > lease times.
>  > 
>  > Bri-
>  > 
>  
>  for a permanent lease I use this
>  host foo
>  {
>  hardware Ethernet 00:00:00:00:00:00;
>  fixed-address 10.x.x.x;
>  }
>  
>  
>  so whenever the host with the MAC address above boots, it get's the 
>  ip listed in fixed-address.  Hope this is what you were looking for
>  
>  
>  > __
>  > Do you Yahoo!?
>  > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
>  > http://calendar.yahoo.com
>  > 
>  
>  
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RE: missing posting

[Kenneth Goodwin]

The -M is more than likely a flag to the loader on your solaris platform
not the compiler. See   'man ld' or 'info ld'  on your linux box and man ld
on your solaris box and see if there is a correllary between the two loaders
for this operation.

>
>  Hi Eric,
>
>   Have you taken a look at the Solaris to RedHat Porting guide at:
>
>   http://www.redhat.com/docs/wp/solaris_port/x99.html
>
>   This will help ! Again if you were using Solaris
>  SparcWorks software
>  such as Forte that would be the comparison chart. Also look
>  at the Intel
>  C/C++ compiler for Linux its got a 30% faster running time and
>  optimizations for the Intel chips. HTH
>
>   Cheers,
>
>   Aly.
>
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  > Hello?
>  > I've posted the following problem 2 times to the read hat
>  list and have yet to see it appear in the summaries I
>  receive. I posted the last one this morning (Wednesday) and
>  have since received another summary without my message. What gives?
>  >
>  > The problem I'm having:
>  >
>  > I'm working on a Solaris to Linux port, using Red Hat
>  release 2.4. I'm building a shared object (libstuff.so) that is
>  > shipped as part of an API for Reuters's data feed product.
>  The library contains a number of symbols that need
>  > to be hidden from the user. It seems that g++ exports all
>  of these and makes them available to outside users -
>  > something that cannot be allowed. Under Solaris, one may
>  create a map file that restricts access by using the
>  > -M option. So what is the Linux/g++ counterpart?
>  >
>  > Eric Graubins
>  > Reuters
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > -
>  > Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com
>  >
>  > Get closer to the financial markets with Reuters Messaging
>  - for more
>  > information and to register, visit http://www.reuters.com/messaging
>  >
>  > Any views expressed in this message are those of  the  individual
>  > sender,  except  where  the sender specifically states them to be
>  > the views of Reuters Ltd.
>  >
>  >
>
>  --
>  Aly S.P Dharshi
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Student System Administrator/Network Analyst LDAP Project
>  Department of Computer Science and Mathematics
>  University of Lethbridge
>
>"A good speech is like a good dress
>that's short enough to be interesting
>and long enough to cover the subject"
>
>
>
>
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RE: Need more speed - CPIO

[Kenneth Goodwin]

> | >  On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 10:07, Distribution Lists wrote:
> | >  > with some help I have CPIO backing up a system to a remote
> | >  tape drive
> | >  > across a 100MB switch. Using the following command
> | 
> | You can generally pick up some speed in these circumstances by
> | not competing with yourself on disk access. Split this into 
> two phases.
> | 
> | 1. - Generate a list of files to be dumped.
> | 
> | find / -depth ! -fstype proc > /ramdisk1/backup_list
> 
> Another thing worth trying, which is rather dependent upon your
> I/O patterns, is to put a buffer between the cpio and the rsh.
> 
> Suppose the cpio is writing nice big data chunks to the pipe 
> - thus it fills
> the pipe on every write (a pipe, internally, has a fixed 
> size, small, buffer).
>
I have not seen the linux pipe implementation source (yet)
but based on System V, Pipes are usually implemented using
the Mbufs in the kernel, the same buffers used for TCP/IP packet handling,
and usually the Max file size on a pipe is greater than 32K in
total buffering. Limit is usually a kernel parameter.
The whole process runs at CPU speed and the sender will only
block when the pipe gets full.
Based on this premise and past experience --
the following comments are made..
 
> On the premise that data comes of the disc drive faster than
> it goes across the network (generally true), so the activity goes:
>   cpio writes
>   the pipe fills
>   cpio blocks

not exactly - cpio blocks on it's next read from the disk drive
RSH may or may not be run by the scheduler during this period
and empty out all or part of the pipe
but in general there is a great deal of overlap and the pipeline
normally never fills unless the CPU resources are being strained.
Cpio does not stall if the PIPE max size is larger than the read
size being used by CPIO. Remember you are not just running these
two processes alone, oter programs can kick in at any time
for cpu or io access.

>   rsh reads the pipe, draining it
>   cpio unblocks, gathers more data
>   cpio writes to the pipe again and blocks on filling it
>   rsh writes data to the network
>   rsh reads more data
>   cpio unblocks
> and so on. This means that cpio stalls a lot of the time.
> 
> This:
> 
>   cpio  | cat | rsh ...
> 
> puts a little extra buffering in the process, reducing the 
> stalls. There's
> actually a program called "buffer" around to let you do this more
> effectively (and efficiently - it forks and shares the buffer across
> the two instances), used thus:

This just adds an unnecessary middle man who consumes more
pipe and cpu resources and does not buy you much in this case.
especially since the real bottle neck here is the network
and it's 1500 byte packets. Thats where things slow down
because of fragmentation of the original 5120 or larger packets.
I am actually running his type of backup between two SUns (solaris)
and a 4 MM DDS-3 tape drive.  It;s this fragmentation at the network
layer that is really slowing things down. we have to reconstruct
the larger data block from the smaller tcp/ip packets
at the rate and size they actually arrive. Fragmentation Kills

> 
>   cpio  | buffer -m 1M | rsh ...
> 
> which used a 1 megabyte buffer. Very effective for getting closer to
> streaming behaviour.

This is great if the tape drive is on the same system. Volcopy
(AT&T System V Rel 4) also implemented double buffer IO
for disk dumps to locally attached tape drives. This just slows it down
if pipes are implemented correctly in the kernel.

> 
> I can send you the buffer program if you like - it's 
> extremely useful for
> this particular purpose.

What he needs is a version of the Double buffer io program running on
the slave side of the link where the tape drive is.
It has two cooperating processes that switch roles.
Both sides can read from the TCP/IP socket and write directly
to the tape drive (replace DD) in a specified block size.
While one reads from the socket, the other is writing to the
tape drive and then they switch roles. The "switchover"
communication is performed using a local two way pipe
between the "twin" processes. The performance is gained
becuase while one process is blocked on the tape write
the otehr continues to read from the socket. The other
major thing that helps is if this is all running
on a multi-processor system since you dont
get cpu bound. So he should potentially upgrade
to multiple cpu based servers if that is not the
current case and implement a double buffered io program
to replace the call to DD to handle the tape drive directly.

> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Cameron Simpson, DoD#743[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/
> 


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