I will be out of the office from August 22 through August. 27. I will have limited
opportunity to respond to email until then.
Thank you.
Man, Mallard! Why do you even stop by?
--Greg
> "Stephen F. Bosch" wrote:
> >
> > How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
> >
>
> Go to your options menu and set it to move messages with "Mallard" in
> them to another mail directory. That should do it.
>
> If everyone ignores th
Mallard wrote:
>
> "Stephen F. Bosch" wrote:
> >
> > How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
> >
>
> Go to your options menu and set it to move messages with "Mallard" in
> them to another mail directory. That should do it.
yup - under netscape edit->message filters->new-> ... you g
"Stephen F. Bosch" wrote:
>
> How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
>
Go to your options menu and set it to move messages with "Mallard" in
them to another mail directory. That should do it.
If everyone ignores the GEEKYNESS of Linux, maybe LINUX WILL GO AWAY!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I never saw a CL until I met the penguin. It's the best thing that ever
> happened. Because of a video card conflict I couldn't get into KDE to
> configure KPPP to connect to the net-but if learned I don't have to. It
> doesn't matter. I did it with CL. It's just one
Ellick Chan wrote:
>
> On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Stew Benedict wrote:
>
> > Maybe this list should be moderated. I signed on to pick up some tips and
> > contribute when I could. I get about 80% troll/trash and about 20% useful
> > interaction. For an "expert" list, this is pretty sad. Time to tu
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Stew Benedict wrote:
> Maybe this list should be moderated. I signed on to pick up some tips and
> contribute when I could. I get about 80% troll/trash and about 20% useful
> interaction. For an "expert" list, this is pretty sad. Time to tune up
> my procmail filter.
>
I
How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
-Stephen-
I never saw a CL until I met the penguin. It's the best thing that ever
happened. Because of a video card conflict I couldn't get into KDE to
configure KPPP to connect to the net-but if learned I don't have to. It
doesn't matter. I did it with CL. It's just one more tool winflop doesn't
offer.
P
Tom Massey wrote:
>
> Mallard wrote:
>
>
> > I think its all a way for geeks to keep their day jobs. make the exec's
> > think you are worth something because you know some cryptic commands you
> > can type in. The more crap you remember, the more you move up the geek
> > ladder. Why do people
Mallard wrote:
> You need to READ SOME MANUALS to be able to program a Mac. You may have
> to LEARN SOMETHING, and would probably have to spend as many hours as it
> takes to learn "vi".
I'm always somewhat amused by Neal Stephenson's "In the Beginning was
the Command Line", when he writes of th
> GREAT! forces the geeks to not be geeks! Damn they hate that.
> DOS? Like I said before, it's not 1983 ANY MORE! this command line crap
> is for the birds. You should be using some sort of GUI minimum to access
> remote machines (like servers).
This actually is not as much a matter of what "w
Maybe this list should be moderated. I signed on to pick up some tips and
contribute when I could. I get about 80% troll/trash and about 20% useful
interaction. For an "expert" list, this is pretty sad. Time to tune up
my procmail filter.
Stew Benedict
Pj wrote:
> About 4 years ago I was contemplating a MAC. I
> was at the local sales/repair shop and asked to see
> it's DOS. All I saw was icons! "How do I get into it?"
> "You don't", was the reply. "But how do I write script or change
> stacks?"
> "You don't. That's what we're here for."
> Neith
You know what? That argument is akin to say that since there is crap on
the TV when you turn it on that you're being forced by the television
programmers to watch the crap. There IS a menu under the 'linux' button
that will let you choose 'any' editor you wish to use. And if you don't
like any of
kPower)
Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do
I set the default editor soI can TRASH IT?
Then when one is finished, press the esca
> > I tell ya, text-mode DOOM is a very strange thing. :)
>
> My word... *this* I'm not familiar with... tell me more!
AALib is an ASCII-art graphics library. You can get it from
http://horac.ta.jcu.cz/aa/aalib/ -- they've got source and binaries for a
number of different platforms. The peopl
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Adam Koch pushed some tiny letters in this order:
>
> In the tradition of applying an automotive analogy...do you know how the
> tumblers in the cylinder of the switch on your steering column work? Do you
> know how that switch activates your starter motor? Do you know wha
.snip..
The beauty of the ongoing evolution of Linux is that it will
>eventually fulfill both the need for the geek and the grandfather looking at
>emailed pictures of his grandkids. This is the direct opposite of most
>other OS's which use operating obfuscation in t
- Original Message -
From: "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the
default editor soI can TRASH IT?
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
>
- Original Message -
From: "Tony McGee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: Re [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I
setthedefault editor soI can TRASH IT?
>
> On Thu, 17 Aug 20
Benjamin Reed wrote:
> One word: aalib.
>
> I tell ya, text-mode DOOM is a very strange thing. :)
My word... *this* I'm not familiar with... tell me more!
-Stephen-
Vic wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> >
> > This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
> > and how to change the default editor when they need to.
> >
> > -Stephen-
>
> Sorry for the dumb question, but how does one who does not
> know about it learn about
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Mallard pushed some tiny letters in this order:
> People shouldn't need to know ANYTHING about computers to use one, or
> read all sorts of documentation to get something done on one. The next
> generation of OS that makes it will the one that is programmed to
> interface wit
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Oh my, Mallard:
Your're really getting emotional with this vi thing. I'd like to say
your're suggestion would help some, but make others get stuck with pico
that they don't even use. I myself used to use pico some, but found it too
featureless for programming.
> I can still function 90% without a GUI, except for viewing images and
> video. Even that can be done in ascii art :)
One word: aalib.
I tell ya, text-mode DOOM is a very strange thing. :)
--
Ben Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://defiance.dyndns.org/ / http://radio.scenespo
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> Oh, and another thing:
>
> This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
> and how to change the default editor when they need to.
>
> -Stephen-
Sorry for the dumb question, but how does one who does not
know about it learn about it i
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
> I want to get some work done, not go backwards. Are you still living in
> 1978 or do you use a GUI?
>
If using a GUI is all there is, then perhaps I would like better to live
in 1978, where the user interface is at least somewhat stable...
I can still funct
I like to use both (commandline and gui)
who says you can't serve 2 masters :)
When the gui skrooze up, I go in under the commandline
and kick it in the butt with a kill command.
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> It seems everyone has put their 2 cents in so why not me?
>
> <2 cents>
> While my
OK, I'm going to start twit filtering EVERYONE who participates in this
thread. It is off topic, and degenrating into infantile noise.
Let it die, people.
A twit filter, for you newbies, means I will set procmail to discard any
mail that comes from the designated twit. this means I will never se
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Can you please at least have some respect for the choices of others. The
comments on this thread are all turning into flames. Asking Mandrake to
change the default editor is one thing, but that doesn't have to involve
flaming vi.
> WOW, that convinces me, let'
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
Gee that was helpful-NOT. But at least somewhat sympathetic
Ok I'm going to type something helpful
-- snip ---
As for why the hell it was written the way it
was I have no idea, but it would be helpful if
the
Gee that was helpful-NOT. But at least somewhat sympathetic
Ok I'm going to type something helpful
when calling vi/vim up, first one needs to press the i key for insert,
this will enable the user to start typing letters into the text file
(or C or C++ or whatever its used for)
and hit the
> People shouldn't need to know ANYTHING about computers to use one, or
> read all sorts of documentation to get something done on one. The next
> generation of OS that makes it will the one that is programmed to
> interface with a human without a learning curve. Geeks will hate it.
In the words
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
> So put a big RED sticker on the disk with "WARNING: You may need to go
> buy a book to learn how to use the overboard, overdesignedBLA BLA
> BLA HOT AIR
Okay, Mallard - I have a suggestion for you. YOU make new Linux
distribution for non-geeks.
But d
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> Oh, and another thing:
>
> This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
> and how to change the default editor when they need to.
>
> -Stephen-
Excellent point.
Can't this thread just die? I think the only thing that could have been
Oh, and another thing:
This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
and how to change the default editor when they need to.
-Stephen-
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, John Aldrich wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> > No-one is forcing you to use vim. If you don't like it use something else! Can
> > we kill this thread please? The best thing to come out of it would be for
> > Mandrakesoft to take the suggestion of a default editor
> This whole thread shows how the geeks won't let go of this
> stuff and thus Linux won't make it against winDOS or Mac.
> I can see Bill G. laughing all the way to the bank.
No, all it shows is the difference in requirements between someone who works
with system administration and flat-file text
Anton Graham wrote:
>
> Problem is newbies are the ones most likely to trash their
> installations
> and need a rescue disk without a clearly defined plan of action. For
> these individuals, vi is the only editor guaranteed to be running on
> the
> system. the others are all in the /usr tree an
Submitted 15-Aug-00 by Gavin Clark:
> I'm not saying get rid of it at all, just make something else the default.
> it would be an easy thing to have vi come up as a choice for experts during
> the install.
Problem is newbies are the ones most likely to trash their installations
and need a rescue
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, John Aldrich wrote:
> Well, in point of fact, they are. When vi/vim is the "default" editor
> of choice when you install linux, you ARE forcing people to use vi.
> Not everyone knows that you can just edit your .bashrc (or
> /etc/bashrc) to fix this.
> John
I don't agr
> What are the programs that use this environment variable? I just typed
> `echo $EDITOR` at a prompt and received nothing. I haven't modified any
> of the system wide profile files or my own .bashrc file since
> installation, neither have I received any warnings that the env
> variable isn't set.
> If we want the developers to help us like they did a year ago when Denis,
> Steve, Civileme, Axalon, Jean-Michael, Ramon, Dave, Brian, and others like
> them, were watching the list and responding then we have to change our
> collective attitudes. The power users and guru's are lurking in the s
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> What's so hard about that? Even the old DOS "edit.exe" wasn't
> any easier.
> If that's too hard to learn how to do, the person isn't a newbie,
> they're an idiot.
>
> Yes, I know there are advanced features that require learning a little
> more to use, but by t
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
>
> What are the programs that use this environment variable? I just typed
> `echo $EDITOR` at a prompt and received nothing. I haven't modified any of the
> system wide profile files or my own .bashrc file since installation, neither
> have I received any warnings
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, John Aldrich pushed some tiny letters in this order:
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> > No-one is forcing you to use vim. If you don't like it use something else! Can
> > we kill this thread please? The best thing to come out of it would be for
> > Mandrakesoft to take the
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> No-one is forcing you to use vim. If you don't like it use something else! Can
> we kill this thread please? The best thing to come out of it would be for
> Mandrakesoft to take the suggestion of a default editor selection at
> installation time because complainin
I must be missing something here.
The editor I get when I type "vi" in a console/terminal/whatever
is simple to use. Cursor keys work just as I expect them
to. If I want to start inserting stuff, I just type an i
and the word INSERT appears at the bottom. Then I move around
with the cursor keys, t
essage -
From: "Mallard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 2:41 AM
Subject: Re [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I
setthedefault editor so I can TRASH IT?
> Ron Marriage wrote:
> >
> > if you want to use t
Apologies in advance for the long rant... :-)
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Gavin Clark pushed some tiny letters in this order:
> >
> > An installation choice has been the best idea to come out of this thread. This
>
> How do we get this into 7.2?
>
I'm sure there's at least *some* developers at man
As a new user I have enjoyed this thread a great deal because I got a
glimpse at Vi editor thru it. I'm a Winflop user and hate it..which is why
I am slowly moving into Linux, but I have an advantage. My guru is a
Linuxgod/power user/debugger who is holding my hand. I've gotten over my
love for GU
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Ron Marriage wrote:
> While my favorite editor is emacs, I have to say that
> anyone that considers themselves an expert owes it to
> themselves to learn vi(m).
An emacser saying a good thing about vi! What IS the world coming to!
> There are times when only it will do the
Oh dear Oh dear
I could guess a discussion of the merits of vi(m) would cause much argument.
I have been using UNIX variants for 12 years now.
And have run courses on UNIX and editors such as vi.
I also am a great fan of Windows based computing for ease of use purposes.
I also don't understan
on 8/15/00 8:50 PM, Tony McGee wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Gavin Clark pushed some tiny letters in this order:
>> I'm not saying get rid of it at all, just make something else the default.
>> it would be an easy thing to have vi come up as a choice for experts during
>> the install.
>
> An ins
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
> Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
> suposto be easy for users?
>
> Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
>
> With Vim all you have to do is spend a half hour trying to get it give
> you help, then scroll all the way to th
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard pushed some tiny letters in this order:
> Fredrik Nilsson wrote (in part):
> > I have made a short list of some useful commands.
> >
>
> WOW, that convinces me, let's see...
>
> I want to copy this word so yw, but wait, I have to tell it what word,
> so Mj
Ron Marriage wrote:
>
> if you want to use the power and the
> potential that comes with linux, then you have to get out
> to the console and learn how to use the professional
> editors that everyone else will be working with.
Power? The power to waste my life away with silly commands I will forg
Fredrik Nilsson wrote (in part):
> I have made a short list of some useful commands.
>
WOW, that convinces me, let's see...
I want to copy this word so yw, but wait, I have to tell it what word,
so Mj on over there near it and then yw and then
Mklljjjll on over to where I want i
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Gavin Clark pushed some tiny letters in this order:
>
> > -- but don't trash it without having a damn good reason. "It's
> > too hard for me" is not a good reason.
>
> neither is "that's the way we've always done it".
>
> I'm not saying get rid of it at all, just make some
on 8/14/00 7:43 PM, Stephen F. Bosch wrote:
> Gavin Clark wrote:
>
>>> If it bugs you, don't use it - there are plenty of other character-driven
>>> text
>>> editors available.
>>
>> this is backwards, if you know how to use vi or are willing to learn then it
>> will be a simple task for you t
It seems everyone has put their 2 cents in so why not me?
<2 cents>
While my favorite editor is emacs, I have to say that
anyone that considers themselves an expert owes it to
themselves to learn vi(m).
There are times when only it will do the job, partly
because it might be the only editor avai
alf Of Mallard
Sent: den 15 augusti 2000 16:42
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rial Juan
Subject: Re [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set
thedefault editor so I can TRASH IT?
Thanks, it worked!
I put that line in /etc/bashrc at the end, it seemed to make more sense
to me since it is the mai
One person wrote:
>Some people missed the points I was making and now I know why Linux is
>going to have problems as long as the people who write programs for it
>don't drop this geeky attitude.
And another wrote:
>But, if you don't get them to learn, then they will always need a
>tech-support p
R>You could include a shell script with every distro called
R>"run-this-for-a-total-geek-system.sh", make it remove X, KDE and all GUI
R>stuff and install the latest version of vim (so they have all the
R>features available, wouldn't want even one left out, it has to do
You got that backwards. S
Thanks, it worked!
I put that line in /etc/bashrc at the end, it seemed to make more sense
to me since it is the main bash set up file for the system. It's easier
for me to remember where it is.
I tried typing it in at a shell prompt and it worked OK till I exited
the console, so it needs to be
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
> Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
> suposto be easy for users?
It's the unix tradition :)
>
> Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
>
Yes, and I use it almost daily
> With Vim all you have to do is spend a half hou
At 07:50 PM 8/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
>
>> Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
>> suposto be easy for users?
>
>It's the unix tradition :)
>
>>
>> Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
>>
>Yes, and I use it almost daily
>
>>
I use an small and free, but efficient, html editor/word processor from
http://www.fookes.com called Super Note Tab. If it will work under Wine,
you should be quite happy
Pj
At 07:50 PM 8/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
>
>> Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist
Gavin Clark wrote:
> > If it bugs you, don't use it - there are plenty of other character-driven text
> > editors available.
>
> this is backwards, if you know how to use vi or are willing to learn then it
> will be a simple task for you to use it. but if you are new to linux/unix
> (read: just a
Ditto for everything that Ellick said.
I do EVERYTHING in vi, including programming, etc.
It's fast, reliable, works over telnet, etc.
You are most surely asking for flames if you are posting
that kind of stuff here. Alot of us, incl. me are
unix/linux sysadmins. When you are doing remote
admi
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Sheldon wrote:
> I do EVERYTHING in vi, including programming, etc.
> It's fast, reliable, works over telnet, etc.
>
In respect for those who are stuck working on a slow as crap link to a box
which you can see your typing 30 seconds after you hit the key, vi is very
useful to
Couldn't the default editor be chosen depending on what kind of install
you chose (e.g., automatic --> CoolEdit or whatever, customized/expert
--> emacs/vim) in future releases of Linux-Mandrake?
And remember, vi/vim can't be the editor from Hell; that's where all the
M$ products come from :-) (t
Submitted 14-Aug-00 by Zaleski, Matthew (M.E.):
> I disagree. I don't like vi but I learned enough to do some basic editing.
> Vi is about the only full screen editor that's guaranteed to be on any
> Unix/Linux box. At least knowing the basics of using it is valuable when
> your system takes
I think the whole discussion is important in that it points out
at least one of the problems in documentation of a very complex
system. I, for one, have been using vi since the 80's, and it's
practically always my editor of choice. Why? Because I know it.
Frankly, I've never recommended it for use
the product.
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Hudspeth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 2:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the
> default editor so I can TRASH IT
Submitted 14-Aug-00 by Zaleski, Matthew (M.E.):
> I disagree. I don't like vi but I learned enough to do some basic editing.
> Vi is about the only full screen editor that's guaranteed to be on any
> Unix/Linux box. At least knowing the basics of using it is valuable when
> your system takes a d
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
> Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
> suposto be easy for users?
It's the unix tradition :)
>
> Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
>
Yes, and I use it almost daily
> With Vim all you have to do is spend a half hour tr
> Bill Hudspeth wrote:
>> I agree with you 200%!
>> I have wasted all kinds of time trying to work with "UNIX"
>> tools that are outdated and clumsy, except for the geeks who
>> thought they were cute. They aren't.
> Vi will always be around, and Linux/Unix admins will always have to know how
>
Calm down; vi is part of the linux heritage, and will therefor always be around.
Well, enough peoble have been ranting about that.
If you want another editor (let's assume pico in our example), put this line
somewhere in /etc/profile:
export EDITOR="pico"
Hope this helps you calm your nerves.
- Original Message -
From: "Mallard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 1:33 PM
Subject: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the default
editor so I can TRASH IT?
> Yea, I am pissed. All I wanted to do is set up my cron file ("cron
Bill Hudspeth wrote:
> I agree with you 200%!
>
> I have wasted all kinds of time trying to work with "UNIX"
> tools that are outdated and clumsy, except for the geeks who
> thought they were cute. They aren't.
Vi will always be around, and Linux/Unix admins will always have to know how
to use
IMO usability is not a static concept. To me it's a great usability and speed
feature that my hands never have to leave the alphanumeric part of the
keyboard.
The outstanding contribution of vi is that it needs virtually no per-machine
configuration. It's plug and play on any keyboard and displ
24-6751 ext 224
---
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Hudspeth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 11:40 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the
> default editor so I can TRASH IT?
&
Mallard:
I agree with you 200%!
I have wasted all kinds of time trying to work with "UNIX"
tools that are outdated and clumsy, except for the geeks who
thought they were cute. They aren't.
I have been writing useful 'C' programs for 20+ years (obviously not in
UNIX/LINUX) and have never seen su
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