Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 23:50 -0800, Dave Laird wrote: > > However, given the condition of the US economy at the present, and given the > abject lack of accurate verifiable information coming from The Shrub's > office, I am truly saddened by what I see coming. The saddest part and also a fact that just came to my mind is: Who put Saddam Hussein into government in the first place? Think of Allende, Noriega, Reminds me of the "Zauberlehrling" (Sorcerer's Apprentice) by Goethe: "The ghosts I called" wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 06:44, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 22:49, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > future for MandrakeSoft. > > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > > the world as we know it. > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > scare me to death. > > > > wobo > First of all, this is not the right place to discuss this .. but we had many OT-discussions here, why not these... > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. Especially > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > then? Or more likely there is something seriously wrong with the German > side of the equation. Ah, yeah, given history, I'd say definitely so. > That comment really pisses ME off. > It pisses me off when other countries that have no ethics or balls to do > the right thing in defense of innocents criticize my country and my > president. WTF ... You think war is the only way ? You think US-american have the right for being world-police ? > Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to > it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the > ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the > Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely > pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like > maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish > this dance. > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed what people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to understand whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! We really need a different place for discuss this ... -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:50, you wrote: > All I've got to say for The Shrub, our President, is, "SHOW ME THE BEEF!" > If he shows me that he has proof for everything he said, especially the > parts about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, I too will stand up and > join you in saying loudly, "DO IT!" 1. No-one believes Saddam has nuclear weapons, even if he has been trying to get one. 2. He certainly has chemical - he has used them before 3. He certainly has biological - he has used them. I name fools everyone who seriously considers the idea that Saddam-like guy has destroyed them all. Now proof is almost impossible - its about finding a needle in a haystack. So in fact there is quite stupid situation: 1. There is no formal reason for war - no proof 2. There is de facto reason - those weapons are out there 3. War must start in february - climatical reasons 4. If location of bio and chem weapons cannot be found before the war breaks out, they can be used and effects of bio weapons will not be limited to the war regions but could wipe out half the world 5. If Saddam is just left alone continuing current idiotic policies it will only get worse - like him getting nukes also. Which would be real shit. So there is no good answer, and whichever way they go there are serious risks. Also this war will be much more difficult than previous Gulf War. From militery point of view, I mean. If you have a good way to get rid of Saddam fast, without the war, let uncle Bush know ;-) Wahur Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Le mer 29/01/2003 à 11:52, Vahur Lokk wrote : /... > So there is no good answer... -- André Salaün. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:11, you wrote: > You just described Hitler and the German people in 1939. > You just described Goebbels in the Berlin Sportpalast with 100,000 > excited Germans shouting "War!" Hmm... Im watching another discussion of the kind in another list. And surprise-surprise. Those guys with superb historical education compare current situation to that of 1938-39... on both sides, either putting Saddam or Bush on the position of Hitler. I would say coinciding citations and situations are just amazing. Also, as an American I would not brag too much about the role of USA in putting Hitler down, as analysis of pre-war diplomatic actions prove that USA did also its best for this war to start first. Only later, with due to pressure from some lobbygroups and understanding that things are going out of hand, they changed their position. Wahur, prefers facts to propaganda and does consider war an option (but the last one) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Tuesday 28 January 2003 10:49 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > future for MandrakeSoft. > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > the world as we know it. > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > scare me to death. > > wobo There is a clear issue here. It is international cooperation vs. unilateralism. The Bush administration has demonstrated its contempt for internationalism by: 1) abrogating the ABM treaty 2) scuttling the protocols for the biological weapons treaty 3) ignoring the Geneva Convention 4) rejecting the Viena convention 5) ignoring the Kyoto accords Jim Tarvid Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:08 +0200, Vahur Lokk wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:11, you wrote: > > > You just described Hitler and the German people in 1939. > > You just described Goebbels in the Berlin Sportpalast with 100,000 > > excited Germans shouting "War!" > Hmm... > Im watching another discussion of the kind in another list. And > surprise-surprise. Those guys with superb historical education compare > current situation to that of 1938-39... on both sides, either putting Saddam > or Bush on the position of Hitler. I would say coinciding citations and > situations are just amazing. > > Also, as an American I would not brag too much about the role of USA in > putting Hitler down, as analysis of pre-war diplomatic actions prove that USA > did also its best for this war to start first. Only later, with due to > pressure from some lobbygroups and understanding that things are going out of > hand, they changed their position. It's nice to read that there are at least people with historical knowledge who prefer fact over a blind "O-ho, say can you see..." I understand the old British principle "Right or Wrong - My Country!" but I don't think it applies here. Just the other day I watched a BBC production on tv about US companies and their support for Hitler AFTER 1939. BTW: The lobbygroups you are talking about who pressed USA to fight Germany were mostly groups who held proof against Hitler and the Nazis, brought to them by Jewish immigrants who escaped the terror. At first USA was very reluctant to let them in at all because they regarded them as Germans and did not understand (or did not want to understand) what's going on in Germany. The whole part of USA (and some other "Homes of the Free") during 1930-40 is something those countries rather keep locked away. Same as the part of the OSS played in letting high Nazi leaders escape in 1945. There is a lot of stuff a lot of American citizens don't know or don't want to know about their country. To all the people who can't differ between Germans and Nazis: We, the Germans did a very thorough job to unravel all historical facts of the Nazi era. Did you do that with the history of your country (apart from Paul Revere's ride and the Mayflower)? wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
I'd like to argue with that bit about the nazi's... they did not have much support from the people.. my real name is Franz.. I call myself frank to make it easier for people to remember.. a good many of my relatives were killed by the SS nazi's for being part of the resistance... Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like democracy... anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had no real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. That doesn't sound much like what is going on in the US at the moment.. everyone keeps saying "War is not the way" I'd like someone to give us an alternative for getting rid of saddam.. does anyone have one? Sanctions didn't work against him... just starved his people and made the west look like assholes (because saddam tells the people that the west are the reason they are starving). He has been doing the same stuff since 91 and none of the UN stuff has worked worth a damn.. So what is this "alternative" so many speak of?? bribe him to leave?? assasinate him?? what?? lets hear the alternatives. One last thing, If there is nothing to what the US has been saying... then the UN would not be putting the pressure on iraq that they are now... so there must be something to it... Also, if the US do know stuff we don't.. its possible they can't say because they have probably been trying to put spy's over there since 91.. if it comes to a choise between revealing all, getting their spy's killed and losing their data... what would you do??? To put it simply, we MUSTN'T judge Bush, because we have no idea what he knows.. and what he doesn't. its possible that if you knew what he did, you would be campaining for war also. Thats not to say that I agree with him, I am simply not in a position to judge.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 3:12 PM To: ExpertMandrake-List Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 00:44 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 22:49, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > future for MandrakeSoft. > > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > > the world as we know it. > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > scare me to death. > > > > wobo > > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. Especially > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > then? You just described Hitler and the German people in 1939. You just described Goebbels in the Berlin Sportpalast with 100,000 excited Germans shouting "War!" "If war is forced upon us we will fight." Mr. Bush used those words. Hitler used those words when he told the German people that "Polland has attacked!" Hear the speeches of 1939 and of 2003 and compare the phrases. And don't try to tell me anything about the German history. I don't want to take Hussein's side. Surely he is a madman. But Mr. Bush is trying to convince the world to go to a war with unknown consequences to the whole world and he does so without any proper reason so far. The mad side of it is that Mr. Bush plays with something that should not be played with. There are still other means to solve the problem. War is the last means. For Mr. Bush it is the first. The mad side of it are the reasons. Do you really believe he would care for Iraq if it were not the state with the second richest oil fields in the world? And unfortunately not under control of the western oil companies? The mad side of it are the so-called proofs he keeps talking about. If there were hard evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction we would be much further down the way than we are now. UN would have seen the docs last year and S. Hussein would be history by now. > It pisses me off when other countries that have no ethics or balls to do > the right thing in defense of innocents criticize my country and my > president. Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 06:20 -0500, tarvid wrote: > On Tuesday 28 January 2003 10:49 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > future for MandrakeSoft. > > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > > the world as we know it. > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > scare me to death. > > > > wobo > There is a clear issue here. > > It is international cooperation vs. unilateralism. > > The Bush administration has demonstrated its contempt for internationalism by: > > 1) abrogating the ABM treaty > 2) scuttling the protocols for the biological weapons treaty > 3) ignoring the Geneva Convention > 4) rejecting the Viena convention > 5) ignoring the Kyoto accords They did all that because following those issues would be not to the liking of the ruling class - the big guys. Especially item 5 is of no interest for the US leaders. Every time someone tells Mr. Bush that he is not the world leader he complains about being left alone by his supposed partners. Partnership - as friendship - does not mean to follow blindly. It's also about making a partner aware of his faults before he steps into the shit sink. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > democracy... > anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own > generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had no > real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. > That doesn't sound much like what is going on in the US at the moment.. You are right with this. I did not compare the situation in the USA of today with the situation in Germany in the 30ies. I just compared Mr. Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939. > everyone keeps saying "War is not the way" Correct. "War is commencing policy by different means." This quote (can't remember who said that) doesn't apply any more in modern times. Back when this quote was made war took place in the field. There were soldiers whose profession it was to go to war. They were called "warriors". Was the girl killed in 9/11 or the man in the streets of Oklahoma or the tourist in Djerba or on Bali, were they warriors? NO. War has changed to something NOBODY can controll any more. All those brave soldiers with their fine toys and their "Yes, Sir - No, Sir!" mentality, they are just a part of war. If Saddam has to fight a military action of the USA we all will be not warriors but potential victims of that war. No matter how military actions proceed in Iraq, there will always be enough terrorists ready to "revenge" whatever they claim to be to revenge. > I'd like someone to give us an alternative for getting rid of saddam.. does > anyone have one? > Sanctions didn't work against him... just starved his people and made the > west look like assholes (because saddam tells the people that the west are > the reason they are starving). > > He has been doing the same stuff since 91 and none of the UN stuff has > worked worth a damn.. > > So what is this "alternative" so many speak of?? bribe him to leave?? > assasinate him?? what?? lets hear the alternatives. > One last thing, If there is nothing to what the US has been saying... then > the UN would not be putting the pressure on iraq that they are now... so > there must be something to it... The UN - looks like USA regards themselves not a member any more. All I hear is "We want this and UN wants that!". The community of world's people - nothing else is the UN! - has a board of directors if you may say so, it has no CEO! Maybe Mr. Bush does not know this... The UN does what the people want from them - they put pressure on Saddam to find out what's going on to then decide for action. The UN is not shy to start military actions - read the resolutions of former conflicts. > Also, if the US do know stuff we don't.. its possible they can't say because > they have probably been trying to put spy's over there since 91.. if it > comes to a choise between revealing all, getting their spy's killed and > losing their data... what would you do??? There is a point where all this has come into the open. There was a long time now that Mr. Bush states that the US have evidence. Time enough to clear out and cut all strings which could endanger someone who is involved in gathering this evidence. Furthermore there is noone demanding to see the evidence in public. No need to show them on CNN. There is always the option to show the evidence just to the members of the Security Council and there's no reason to distrust those people more than the average CIA guy. If those guys of the SC tell the world: "OK, we have seen proof that Saddam has those weapons. We'll sign a resolution to fight him." Then my little world is in order again. I'd still be scared shitless, though. I'm also living in a city and work in an institution and building which is on the top list of potential targets (Frankfurt, Germany, German Federal Bank). > To put it simply, we MUSTN'T judge Bush, because we have no idea what he > knows.. and what he doesn't. its possible that if you knew what he did, you > would be campaining for war also. Thats not to say that I agree with him, I > am simply not in a position to judge.. As long as Mr. Bush is the leader of a nation which is a part of a community he has to obide by the rules. In this serious issue there is no "Trust me, I know what I'm doing." wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Tuesday 28 January 2003 07:22 pm, Mark Weaver wrote: > Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > future for MandrakeSoft. > > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > > the world as we know it. > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > scare me to death. > > > > wobo > > wobo, > > I watched the speech as well, but I'm a little unclear as to what you're > refering to. What did I miss? > > Mark A week ago a poll showed that close to 70% were most concerned with the economy in the US. People are out of work big time and the dollar is weakening. After his speech last night, people polled in the US are now concerned first with the possibility of war with Iraq by a 2 to 1 margin. It appears that the diversion of attention from the weak economy has been successful. Realistically, a government can do a lot more about a war than they can about an economy, so it would be something attractive to the average politician whose first concern is after all to stay in office. Yeah, my registeredf political affiliation is "other" in a state where there are Democrats, Republians, Independents and Greens. When they offer the option "cynic", then I will make a declaration ;-) Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Squid Transparent Proxy
Has anyone got this to work under 9.0? It works just fine as a regular proxy, but not transparently. Nothing shows up in the access.log, and no packets leave the outside interface of the firewall running squid. I've read the Transparent proxy mini-howto and the FAQ pages on squid-cache and the only thing I can think of is the binaries distributed in the 9.0 rpm weren't compiled with the "--enable-linux-netfilter" option. I had this working on a SuSe 7.1 box, so I know it's possible. Just can't figure out the problem. Thanks, Cory Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:17:13AM +0100, Steffen Barszus wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 06:44, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 22:49, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > > future for MandrakeSoft. > > > After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and > > > the world as we know it. > > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. > > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > > scare me to death. > > > wobo I guess that perhaps is the way America and the uk feel when they hear your chancellor repetively refer "the german way". Talk about scarey stuff, deja vu. > First of all, this is not the right place to discuss this .. but we had many > OT-discussions here, why not these... Yep, might as well get your two euro's in as well. > > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. Especially > > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > > then? Or more likely there is something seriously wrong with the German > > side of the equation. Ah, yeah, given history, I'd say definitely so. > > > That comment really pisses ME off. > > It pisses me off when other countries that have no ethics or balls to do > > the right thing in defense of innocents criticize my country and my > > president. > WTF ... You think war is the only way ? You think US-american have the > right for being world-police ? No, I don't think war is the only way. As for the US-American (sic) having the right to be the world police, I don't care much for that notion either. I am a firm believer that the US should withdraw from NATO and let the europeans deal with their own issues. Might as well withdraw from the United Nations as well, as it most certainly as become as weak as the United League ever was. > > Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to > > it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the > > ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the > > Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely > > pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like > > maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish > > this dance. Well, I understand you are mad..as you should be. Perhaps you wish you had put things a bit more eloquently :) > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed what > people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to understand > whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] A twist on NAT/Connection Sharing
OK could someone point me at the right document to figure this out? I will, of course, share the answer back. I have a friend who MUST remain concealed and who has recently gotten DSL. The DSL service provided gives only Static IPs, and those are rather easy to pinpoint for location--much easier to hack a set of records for static IPs than to get at logs for who was on a particular dialup IP at a given time. To conceal my friend, I suggested we use my computer as a gateway to the internet for her. It is already set up as a NAT firewall forwarding from within a local network. I want the requests from the friend's computer to be treated the same even though they will come from the internet side and go back out the internet side. This will add some latency but should significantly not tax my speed to support his cause my DSL is much much faster. So anyone out there have any suggestions where to look to achieve that masquerade? Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Squid Transparent Proxy
I have it working. Didn't do anything but copy the configuration over from old installation when updated server from 8.2 -> 9.0 On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, . wrote: > Has anyone got this to work under 9.0? It works just fine as a regular > proxy, but not transparently. Nothing shows up in the access.log, and > no packets leave the outside interface of the firewall running squid. > I've read the Transparent proxy mini-howto and the FAQ pages on > squid-cache and the only thing I can think of is the binaries > distributed in the 9.0 rpm weren't compiled with the > "--enable-linux-netfilter" option. I had this working on a SuSe 7.1 > box, so I know it's possible. Just can't figure out the problem. > > Thanks, > Cory > > > -- Seppo Jarvinen , [EMAIL PROTECTED]Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. GSM+SMS +358 40 568 1756 You never know what you're facing Power the World, With Linux! unless you dare to LOOK AT IT. Technology lies on the leading edge Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 07:41 -0500, Mark Weaver wrote: > > And what do you imagine those consequences to be if/when america goes to > war against Iraq? That's an easy one, listen to all the analysts on tv. They are all telling the same. There are 2 possible ways the war may turn: 1. What Mr. Bush and most military men think, a short trip to the beach, a little Saddam-bashing and back to the States again. All this timed to the prime time of the major tv stations. Consequences: USA and Mr. Bush will keep their face. A real danger to the world as a whole is eliminated. Stocks will go up because the world second largest oil reserves are under control and a small successful war always boosts industry. USA can place someone of their liking in charge of Iraq (and hope it will turn out better than when they helped Saddam to the top or when they helped Bin Laden to fight the Russians. But I doubt that will be the case this time. Saddam may be a madman but he is not dumb and he is able to learn. He will not be the same as in Desert Storm. 2. A long and costly fight. Consequences: Lots of killed people on both sides. An imminent and present danger to the whole world because with his back to the wall Saddam will not hesitate to deploy those weapons of mass destruction he is accused to have. Lost ressources. Saddam will not hesitate to destroy the oil fields before they fall to the enemy (remember the burning oil fields in Kuweit). This will make the oil prices explode. This again will have very bad influences on the prices of everything for sale on earth and so it will influence your and my daily life. Stocks will go down to the bottom because of the oil prices which will influence also all industrial activities. Nobody will invest one dime in those times. A worldwide recession will take place, and I mean a real recession, not that small down we have now. You could even now witness the negative influence of the threat of war on the stoch market. This list is far from complete. All these consequences are logical and they will not affect the USA but the whole world. If you doubt this list, think it through, it's quite easy. This has nothing to do with painting black walls, it's reality and far from pessimistic. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without fighting... (assuming he is guilty.) what are the alternatives.??? As for the question of spy's... who says they should pull them all out now to save them??? The issue isn't resolved yet, if they pulled them out, they'd have to start over again later on down the track.. If only 5 people know the location of a bunch of chemical warheads, and all of a sudden the UN weapons inspectors make a beeline to that place... whats gonna happen to the only 5 people that know??? The us would not pull out deep cover agents just to appease the public... particularly if they might give forwarning of any milirary or terrorist action... Think about it.. I am not saying flat out that that is the case.. but if you think the US doesn't have deep cover agents over there, you need to think real hard about it... I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know enough as civilians to make the distinction... rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 8:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > democracy... > anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own > generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had no > real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. > That doesn't sound much like what is going on in the US at the moment.. You are right with this. I did not compare the situation in the USA of today with the situation in Germany in the 30ies. I just compared Mr. Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939. > everyone keeps saying "War is not the way" Correct. "War is commencing policy by different means." This quote (can't remember who said that) doesn't apply any more in modern times. Back when this quote was made war took place in the field. There were soldiers whose profession it was to go to war. They were called "warriors". Was the girl killed in 9/11 or the man in the streets of Oklahoma or the tourist in Djerba or on Bali, were they warriors? NO. War has changed to something NOBODY can controll any more. All those brave soldiers with their fine toys and their "Yes, Sir - No, Sir!" mentality, they are just a part of war. If Saddam has to fight a military action of the USA we all will be not warriors but potential victims of that war. No matter how military actions proceed in Iraq, there will always be enough terrorists ready to "revenge" whatever they claim to be to revenge. > I'd like someone to give us an alternative for getting rid of saddam.. does > anyone have one? > Sanctions didn't work against him... just starved his people and made the > west look like assholes (because saddam tells the people that the west are > the reason they are starving). > > He has been doing the same stuff since 91 and none of the UN stuff has > worked worth a damn.. > > So what is this "alternative" so many speak of?? bribe him to leave?? > assasinate him?? what?? lets hear the alternatives. > One last thing, If there is nothing to what the US has been saying... then > the UN would not be putting the pressure on iraq that they are now... so > there must be something to it... The UN - looks like USA regards themselves not a member any more. All I hear is "We want this and UN wants that!". The community of world's people - nothing else is the UN! - has a board of directors if you may say so, it has no CEO! Maybe Mr. Bush does not know this... The UN does what the people want from them - they put pressure on Saddam to find out what's going on to then decide for action. The UN is not shy to start military actions - read the resolutions of former conflicts. > Also, if the US do know stuff we don't.. its possible they can't say because > they have probably been trying to put spy's over there since 91.. if it > comes to a choise between revealing all, getting their spy's killed and > losing their data... what would you do??? There is a point where all this has come into the open. There was a long time now that Mr. Bush states that the US have evidence. Time enough to clear out and cut all strings which could endanger someone who is involved in gathering this evidence. Furthermore there is noone demanding to see the evidence in public. No need to show them on CNN. There is always the option to show the evidence just to the members of the Security Council and there's no reason to distrust those people more than the average CIA guy. If those guys of the SC tell the world: "OK, we have seen proof that Saddam has those weapons. We'll sign a resolution to fight him." Then my little world is in order again. I'd still be scared shitless, though. I'm also living in a city and work in an institution and build
Re: [expert] A twist on NAT/Connection Sharing
On Wed, January 29 2003 7:16 am, civileme wrote: *snip* > So anyone out there have any suggestions where to look to achieve that > masquerade? Actually, civileme, that is more along the lines of a VLAN, or virtual LAN... you would need to create a virtual connection from her computer to yours, then have it use your computer as the gateway, AFAIK, there really is no way to do it without using a virtual network connection, due to the way TCP/IP operates, perhaps this would be an options with the IPv6, but I have absolutely 0 experience with that.. -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- Mirrors should reflect a little before throwing back images. -- Jean Cocteau Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:18 +, Dallam Wych wrote: > > I guess that perhaps is the way America and the uk feel when they > hear your chancellor repetively refer "the german way". Talk about > scarey stuff, deja vu. When did Mr. Schroeder say something like "the German way"? And when did he say something that makes you look back to the Nazi era? It would be a déjà-vu if he'd side up with Mr. Bush. The we'd really be concerned. BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your statement I doubt that you have any clue. > No, I don't think war is the only way. As for the US-American (sic) > having the right to be the world police, I don't care much for that > notion either. I am a firm believer that the US should withdraw from > NATO and let the europeans deal with their own issues. Might as well > withdraw from the United Nations as well, as it most certainly as > become as weak as the United League ever was. So that USA would not have to pay their debts to the UN? A dept which is quite as large as some 3rd world country's debt with the BIG 7. So USA leaves NATO, so what? I think USA would suffer more than Europe from that. Meanwhile most NATO tasks are fulfilled by European soldiers because USA has already drawn nost of their military our of the current NATO involvements. And guess who is the country with the highest financial support of NATO? Read it on the NATO sites. > I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor > just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? > Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. Not on the Anti-Americanism but on the Anti-War issue. That is a big difference! Although I must confess that since Mr. Bush lives in the White House we may have developped some resentments. Since WWII Germany has a very strong feeling against any military involvement. As we have a more democratic way of dealing with our chancellor (i.e. he has far less political power than your president) he has to bend to the peoples will. Last polls in USA show that nearly half of the American people don't want war against Iraq in any case. In Germany our chancellor wouldn't get away with doing something like that without a large majority on his side. And he'd never get that majority. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, January 29 2003 7:55 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: *snip* > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > statement I doubt that you have any clue. I think the Germans are so scared of their OWN past, that they will allow ANY country to do whatever they want to do to their OWN people, as long as the cowardly germans have to do nothing! -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- Tomorrow's computers some time next month. -- DEC Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Wolfgang Bornath wrote: On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 23:22 -0500, Mark Weaver wrote: Wolfgang Bornath wrote: Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a future for MandrakeSoft. After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and the world as we know it. I listened to the US-Amercan president. I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has scare me to death. wobo wobo, I watched the speech as well, but I'm a little unclear as to what you're refering to. What did I miss? ??? Did you miss the phrase "We are peaceful. But if war is forced upon us we will fight." Hitler used that phrase when he told the German people that "Since 5:45 we return fire". Did you miss the way he told the american people that "he" is decided to go to war? Did you miss that in his whole speech he never spoke about the consequences of that war? wobo And what do you imagine those consequences to be if/when america goes to war against Iraq? -- Mark --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 & 9.0 ICQ# 27816299 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, January 29 2003 7:55 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Since WWII Germany has a very strong feeling against any military > involvement. As we have a more democratic way of dealing with our > chancellor (i.e. he has far less political power than your president) > he has to bend to the peoples will. > > Last polls in USA show that nearly half of the American people don't > want war against Iraq in any case. In Germany our chancellor wouldn't > get away with doing something like that without a large majority on > his side. And he'd never get that majority. The decision for war is with Saddam. According to Hans Blix, Iraq has NOT allowed U2 Flyovers, has HIDDEN documents, etc.. THEY HAVE HAD 12 YEARS to COMPLY with the UN Eunuchs.. Now.. Do you think if we give him more time, do you REALLY think he will use it? Or will he get rid of biological and chemical weapons.. by SELLING them to the highest bidder?? Like terrorists? Like Mr Blix said, if Iraq wants to disarm, then it will, if it doesnt then it won't, inspectors or not. If Iraq wanted to disarm, it would SHOW us where these weapons are hidden, instead of continuing to hide them... Iraq has had 12 years to come clean, and they have not done so, and you are a fool if you think that he will do it now. -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- No one likes us. I don't know why. We may not be perfect, We give them money, But heaven knows we try.But are they grateful? But all around, No, they're spiteful, Even our old friends put us down. And they're hateful. Let's drop the big one, They don't respect us, And see what happens. So let's surprise them We'll drop the big one, And pulverize 'em. Asia's crowded, Europe's too old, Africa is far too hot, We'll save Australia. And Canada's too cold. Don't wanna hurt no kangaroos. And South America stole our nameWe'll build an All-American amusement Let's drop the big one, park there-- There'll be no one left to blame us.They got surfin', too! Boom! goes London, And Boom! Paree. More room for you, Oh, how peaceful it'll be! And more room for me, We'll set everybody free! And every city, You'll wear a Japanese kimono, babe; The whole world round, There'll be Italian shoes for me! Will just be another American town. They all hate us anyhow, So, let's drop the big one now. Let's drop the big one now! -- Randy Newman, "Drop the Big One" Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 07:57 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 7:55 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > > statement I doubt that you have any clue. > I think the Germans are so scared of their OWN past, that they will allow ANY > country to do whatever they want to do to their OWN people, as long as the > cowardly germans have to do nothing! Gather some information about us and come back after that. No reason to call the Germans cowards. In case you may not know it, more than 10,000 German soldiers (a very large persentage of our army) are on duty right now in areas like Afghanistan, Somalia, Kosevo, etc. Cowardice has nothing to do with the brain. It is downright dumb to call someone a coward who looks and thinks before he follows blindly. Blind obeyence has led us into WWII. We are not going to make this mistake again. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is WAY offtopic and would be better suited for an alt.* newsgroup. As a US Desert Storm veteran and now reservist, I think I can speak for EVERYONE that Bush is an idiot, in fact, he truly is the most ignorant, ill-educated president that the US has EVER had and that his actions, politics, and behavior is an unfortunate expression of this fact. Lets just leave it here at what we ALL can and must agree on because these are simple, objective facts. There, all fixed. Now this topic can die. On Wednesday 29 January 2003 08:57 am, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 7:55 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > > statement I doubt that you have any clue. > > I think the Germans are so scared of their OWN past, that they will allow > ANY country to do whatever they want to do to their OWN people, as long as > the cowardly germans have to do nothing! - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N+Fl1i/6R1B/Yh0RAqKFAJ0YzWPDvpLVTnpFjMg51esHAPUnVwCfUSTM xG/xRLtFv6cMgVilwZkowOQ= =Wc+U -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
This is not the mailinglist to be political I gues. But the reaction of mister burns shows me that it seems that americans feel very misunderstood. :-) Pretty funny for a superpower that has the largest depts in the world. But let us at least try to have a common goal (linux-mandrake) And please respect the fact that a lot of europeans have a different view of the Irac case. Mike -- E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] OS : Linux (Mandrake 9.0) Country : The Netherlands Kernel : 2.4.19 on a PII/233/128MB Function : Technical Consultant GPG Key: www.vendeling.net/mike/veltman.asc - Use any OS, If it does what it needs to do --- msg65152/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:01 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > No one likes us. > I don't know why. > We may not be perfect,We give them money, > But heaven knows we try. But are they grateful? > But all around, No, they're spiteful, > Even our old friends put us down. And they're hateful. > Let's drop the big one, They don't respect us, > And see what happens. So let's surprise them > We'll drop the big one, > And pulverize 'em. > Asia's crowded, > Europe's too old, > Africa is far too hot,We'll save Australia. > And Canada's too cold.Don't wanna hurt no kangaroos. > And South America stole our name We'll build an All-American amusement > Let's drop the big one, park there-- > There'll be no one left to blame us. They got surfin', too! > > Boom! goes London, > And Boom! Paree. > More room for you,Oh, how peaceful it'll be! > And more room for me, We'll set everybody free! > And every city, You'll wear a Japanese kimono, babe; > The whole world round,There'll be Italian shoes for me! > Will just be another American town. They all hate us anyhow, > So, let's drop the big one now. > Let's drop the big one now! > -- Randy Newman, "Drop the Big One" Yes, I know that one and I just love it. It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious background. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
>There is a clear issue here. > >It is international cooperation vs. unilateralism. > >The Bush administration has demonstrated its contempt for internationalism by: > >1) abrogating the ABM treaty >2) scuttling the protocols for the biological weapons treaty >3) ignoring the Geneva Convention >4) rejecting the Viena convention >5) ignoring the Kyoto accords I will agree with you on counts 1, 2, and 4. The other counts, I have to disagree with you on. 3) When have we ignored the Geneva Conventions? Don't bring up al Quadea either; the Geneva Conventions specifically apply to combatants in times of war, not terrorists. 5) We never signed the Kyoto accords. It is our soverign right to sign or not sign onto a treaty. Since we did not sign Kyoto, we never agreed to be bound by it. If we're talking about global democracy I'm all for it, but it's a two-way street. Last I checked, Germany and France rather enjoyed being able to exercise their soverign rights by slapping us in the face. On that note, doesn't France still owe us like a trillion dollars from the Lend-Lease act??? :-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 09:12 -0500, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > This is WAY offtopic and would be better suited for an alt.* newsgroup. As a > US Desert Storm veteran and now reservist, I think I can speak for EVERYONE > that Bush is an idiot, in fact, he truly is the most ignorant, ill-educated > president that the US has EVER had and that his actions, politics, and > behavior is an unfortunate expression of this fact. Lets just leave it here > at what we ALL can and must agree on because these are simple, objective > facts. > > There, all fixed. Now this topic can die. Very well spoken. And I absolutely acknowledge the fact that you have much more right to say so than I have. Thanks. End of topic for me as well. Looking back I realize that I have made a mistake by opening this thread. Sorry folks, I'll start a new one on my experiences with the Beta2 of 9.1 in some minutes. And it will contain nothing about politics! Promise. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, January 29 2003 8:19 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: *snip* > Cowardice has nothing to do with the brain. It is downright dumb to > call someone a coward who looks and thinks before he follows blindly. *snip* No, but completely disregarding the facts does have a lot to do with the brain. FACT: Iraq has had 12 years to destroy it's NCB weapons, it has not done so. FACT: Iraq was given a last chance, under UN Resolution 1441, to publicly disarm, in front of UN inspectors, and must comply FULLY, even Hans Blix states they have not done so. FACT: Saddam Hussein has used Chemical and Biological weapons against his OWN people FACT: When the UN signed Resoluion 1441, it stated certain things that must be done by a certain time, or the UN would use force. That time is here, and those things are NOT done, according to Hans Blix. FACT: Now, that the resolution has NOT been accepted, several nations are backing down from their original agreement to use force if Iraq did NOT comply fully. FACT: The French have oil contracts with Iraq. FACT: Nearly all the Iraqi weapons are of old Soviet design, where did they get these designs? Russia and her neighbors, under the old USSR Now.. You explain to me why these nations are reneging on their signed documents? Why, all of a sudden, the SAME nations who AGREED to Resolution 1441, now are saying that it shouldn't be carried out? Please, explain that to me. I am waiting. -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- I'm pretending I'm pulling in a TROUT! Am I doing it correctly?? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: *snip* > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > background. I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am always right. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:36 am, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:19 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > > Cowardice has nothing to do with the brain. It is downright dumb to > > call someone a coward who looks and thinks before he follows blindly. > > *snip* > No, but completely disregarding the facts does have a lot to do with the > brain. > FACT: Iraq has had 12 years to destroy it's NCB weapons, it has not done > so. FACT: Iraq was given a last chance, under UN Resolution 1441, to > publicly disarm, in front of UN inspectors, and must comply FULLY, even > Hans Blix states they have not done so. > FACT: Saddam Hussein has used Chemical and Biological weapons against his > OWN people > FACT: When the UN signed Resoluion 1441, it stated certain things that must > be done by a certain time, or the UN would use force. That time is here, > and those things are NOT done, according to Hans Blix. > FACT: Now, that the resolution has NOT been accepted, several nations are > backing down from their original agreement to use force if Iraq did NOT > comply fully. > FACT: The French have oil contracts with Iraq. > FACT: Nearly all the Iraqi weapons are of old Soviet design, where did they > get these designs? Russia and her neighbors, under the old USSR > > Now.. You explain to me why these nations are reneging on their signed > documents? Why, all of a sudden, the SAME nations who AGREED to Resolution > 1441, now are saying that it shouldn't be carried out? Please, explain > that to me. I am waiting. I can explain. Bush chooses internationalism when it suits him. He scuttled Kyoto, ABM and the Biological weapons protocols and ignores the Viena and Geneva conventions. The lone voice crying in the wilderness is often correct, the biggest bully on the block is rarely so. Good grief. It was Nixon, Reagan and the elder Bush who put much of that together all to be destroyed in two short years by Bush the younger. Jim Tarvid Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 02:55:34PM +0100, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > When did Mr. Schroeder say something like "the German way"? And when > did he say something that makes you look back to the Nazi era? It > would be a déjà-vu if he'd side up with Mr. Bush. The we'd really be > concerned. Your chancellors quote was printed in at least three of the publications I read daily, the washington post, the new york times and the guardian (uk). More than likely in the london financial times as well. Perhaps it just wasn't allowed to appear in the german press? > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > statement I doubt that you have any clue. In all honesty, I only spend a few weeks a year now in germany as opposed to the 1970's when I spent perhaps 3 months out of the year there. My opinions are formed as are most everyones...by what we read and from what friends in other countries convey to us. Call that clueless if you like. > So that USA would not have to pay their debts to the UN? A dept which > is quite as large as some 3rd world country's debt with the BIG 7. Oh no, I want to pay the debt and leave with a clean slate and be done with any associations with europe. > So USA leaves NATO, so what? I think USA would suffer more than Europe > from that. Meanwhile most NATO tasks are fulfilled by European > soldiers because USA has already drawn nost of their military our of > the current NATO involvements. And guess who is the country with the > highest financial support of NATO? Read it on the NATO sites. And why shouldn't a european country shoulder the burden of defending itself? Provide its own soldiers, etc? I just personally believe that NATO isn't a viable option for the US or the UK. For the US inparticular in light of the rabid anti-americanism there. It costs a lot of money to keep troops stationed on foreign soil, plus it pumps a lot of money into countries that dispise you anyway. > Not on the Anti-Americanism but on the Anti-War issue. That is a big > difference! Although I must confess that since Mr. Bush lives in the > White House we may have developped some resentments. Look, that is the old bait and switch. Every major newspaper in the _world_ carried this story for at least the last week of the german election. I could swear it was mentioned about the same time one of the german politicians compared Bush to Hitler, but then again I might be mistaken. > Since WWII Germany has a very strong feeling against any military > involvement. I think this is a matter of convenience and I feel one day in the not to distant future given the latest franco-german manipulation of the european union I will be proven right. > Last polls in USA show that nearly half of the American people don't > want war against Iraq in any case. In Germany our chancellor wouldn't > get away with doing something like that without a large majority on > his side. And he'd never get that majority. History is full of things you can't imagine people actually were bad enough to do. -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: S0: RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:32 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >There is a clear issue here. > > > >It is international cooperation vs. unilateralism. > > > >The Bush administration has demonstrated its contempt for internationalism > > by: > >1) abrogating the ABM treaty > >2) scuttling the protocols for the biological weapons treaty > >3) ignoring the Geneva Convention > >4) rejecting the Viena convention > >5) ignoring the Kyoto accords > > I will agree with you on counts 1, 2, and 4. The other counts, I have to > disagree with you on. > > 3) When have we ignored the Geneva Conventions? Don't bring up al Quadea > either; the Geneva Conventions specifically apply to combatants in times of > war, not terrorists. > > 5) We never signed the Kyoto accords. It is our soverign right to sign or > not sign onto a treaty. Since we did not sign Kyoto, we never agreed to be > bound by it. If we're talking about global democracy I'm all for it, but > it's a two-way street. Last I checked, Germany and France rather enjoyed > being able to exercise their soverign rights by slapping us in the face. > > On that note, doesn't France still owe us like a trillion dollars from the > Lend-Lease act??? :-) Bush declared war on terrorists (although I would prefer the constitutional route) and you saay it is not a war. Afghanistan looked like war to me. (something about ducks). Bush wasn't too kind to Cairo either. It would seem that a case could me made for topling Sharon as well. Jim Tarvid Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, January 29 2003 8:43 am, tarvid wrote: *snip* > Bush chooses internationalism when it suits him. > > He scuttled Kyoto, ABM and the Biological weapons protocols and ignores the > Viena and Geneva conventions. So, you think implementing a system that protects US citizens from ICMBs is a bad thing? Come down off your high horse. Also, when was the last time we broke the Geneva convention? The last war was in Desert Storm, and did we torture any of those Iraqi soldiers that surrendered without firing a shot? No, I don't think we did. We have ALWAYS treated enemy soldiers as well, or better, than the Geneva convention states, EVEN when our enemies did not, such as was the case in Vietnam, where our troops were torturted with electric shock. I had a doctor-friend, who was a medic back in the Vietnam war, who was captured, during a VC raid on a hospital compound.. They beat him so severely that, to this day, he speaks with a weak and raspy voice almost like a whisper, because his larynx was nearly destroyed, but he is still a good doctor. We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD to ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries with NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them alone, so, of course we didn't sign it. -- Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---===--- Life Sucks. Cynical, misanthropic male, 34, looking for soul mate but certain not to find her. Drop me a note. I'll call you, we'll talk and I'll ask you out to dinner where I'll probably spend more than I can afford in a feeble attempt to impress you. Then we'll realize we have absolutely nothing in common and we'll go our separate ways, more embittered and depressed than before (if such a thing is possible). Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:54 am, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:43 am, tarvid wrote: > *snip* > > > Bush chooses internationalism when it suits him. > > > > He scuttled Kyoto, ABM and the Biological weapons protocols and ignores > > the Viena and Geneva conventions. > > So, you think implementing a system that protects US citizens from ICMBs is > a bad thing? Come down off your high horse. I like my horse, even though he is over 30 now. I do think that unilateralism is a bad thing, worse than Iraq, worse than Sharon. Of course internationalism has made its mistakes, Korea and Viet Nam come to mind but I contend it makes fewer mistakes than individual heads of state. Jim Tarvid Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:08 am, tarvid wrote: > I like my horse, even though he is over 30 now. 30?! Wow. What kind of horse is he? Have you retired him to pasture grazing or do you actually still ride him? - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N+5P1i/6R1B/Yh0RApmBAJ4iKY+DydH//7ayvy9Q4Z1LJcpKjQCbB0Hk sYnfvhJRpC+j0XecNeZAUvg= =LIRF -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:36 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > FACT: The French have oil contracts with Iraq. Aha! Now we are seeing some real beef. The French have and the US have not? (You may recognize that I'm coming down to your level of arguing slowly but surely). > FACT: Nearly all the Iraqi weapons are of old Soviet design, where did they > get these designs? Russia and her neighbors, under the old USSR So let me see, whre we have all old weapons from Russia with love: German criminals use them, some dozen countries in Africa use them, Pakistan has some, > Now.. You explain to me why these nations are reneging on their signed > documents? Why, all of a sudden, the SAME nations who AGREED to Resolution > 1441, now are saying that it shouldn't be carried out? Please, explain that > to me. I am waiting. Why don't you read the text of 1441 instead of waiting? Didn't you learn to search and evaluate information? Where in 1441 is the sentence which automatically creates a declaration of war if 1441 was not followed by the letter? It all boils down to the situation that Mr. Bush and his followers are like a French Terrier dog, getting up on his hindfeet ready to be unleashed to get at his prey. The more calmer parties in the council are prepared to give the prey a bit more leeway to avoid an unpleseant scene. Well, Tony, he is different case at all. He has so many problems at home in Downing Street that he was really happy to find an issue to distract his people. Which will not work at all. If Tony Blair joins Mr. Bush he will lose his job, that's for sure. The majority of his people is against war at every cost, same as in Germany. Mr. Schroeder can not vote against the will of the German parliament. He has to discuss the issue in parliament and if this parliament says "Nay" he is forced to say "Nay" in the council. Mr. Schroeder does not speak for himself, he speaks for the German people. That is one of the differences between him and Mr. Bush. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:38 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > background. > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. Different to your sig your posting did not contain anything worth focusing. But I really enjoyed reading those verses once more. Thanks anyway. See, I focused on your posting, not on your sig although again it was much more interesting. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:07 am, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:08 am, tarvid wrote: > > I like my horse, even though he is over 30 now. > > 30?! Wow. What kind of horse is he? Have you retired him to pasture > grazing or do you actually still ride him? > Norwegian Fjord and more of a retired cart horse than a trail horse. My daughter rides him on ocassion. He prefers cookies to grass although he manages to keep his 7 acre paddock rather close. I keep a few goats - cashmeres, saanens and alpines. The place is blessed with a few dozen wild turkeys. The animals help me keep a hazy perspective on human folly. Jim Tarvid Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good morning, Mike... On Wednesday 29 January 2003 06:20 am, Mike Veltman wrote: > And please respect the fact that a lot of europeans have a different view > of the Irac case. ...as do *SOME* Americans. Dave - -- Dave Laird ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Used Kharma Lot / The Phoenix Project Web Page: http://www.kharma.net updated 01/20/2003 Year 2 of running Mandrake Linux workstation on a 100% Microsoft-free system. An automatic & random thought For the Minute: Minicomputer: A computer that can be afforded on the budget of a middle-level manager. -- T.A. Dolotta -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/UiaE1ENZP1A28RAm80AJwOfYVYz42m8HOicUhmdDWDJgaW+wCfbDCF BP4eEI4qanJ6/HOVeUi53CU= =rglC -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] libqt3-devel-3.0.5-7mdk missing /usr/lib/qt3/lib/libqt.so
Hello. I have mandrake 9.0. It's up-to-date. I have both libqt3-3.0.5-7mdk and libqt3-devel-3.0.5-7mdk installed. Now whenever I try to complile an app with QT I get: "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lqt" I have variable QTDIR=/usr/lib/qt3 I tried to poke around to see where the lib is and I did not find it inside libqt3-devel-3.0.5-7mdk. /usr/lib/qt3/lib/libqt.so should be there, correct ? I checked redhat version of the same rpm at http://www.rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/redhat/updates/7.3/i386/qt-devel-3.0.5-7.14.i386.html and it has the most important libqt.so in there. I ran ldconfig, so it should pickup all libs. Is qt lib called something else now ? Any ideas ? ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com target=_blank>http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:27 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:36 -0600, Chuck Burns wrote: > > FACT: The French have oil contracts with Iraq. > > Aha! Now we are seeing some real beef. The French have and the US have > not? (You may recognize that I'm coming down to your level of arguing > slowly but surely). There is a little thing of lost oil field control by US oil companies as a result of all the Desert Storm, etc, ugliness. Bush would love nothing more than to install a friendly leader in Iraq who would then turn over the oil fields in question to their former US oil company "owners". Ties into both Bush's and Cheny's former business partners in the business. > > FACT: Nearly all the Iraqi weapons are of old Soviet design, where did > > they get these designs? Russia and her neighbors, under the old USSR > > So let me see, whre we have all old weapons from Russia with love: > German criminals use them, some dozen countries in Africa use them, > Pakistan has some, I was on B-52s in Desert Storm. The Soviet stuff had my attention (I was an electronic warfare officer - bomber electronic defensive systems) but the only weapons I actually had any fear of were the US-supplied HAWK missile systems. We were geared to deal with Soviet equipment and there is just not a lot that can be done to a HAWK missile wrt jamming/spoofing. [...] > It all boils down to the situation that Mr. Bush and his followers are > like a French Terrier dog, getting up on his hindfeet ready to be > unleashed to get at his prey. Bush is also in a precarious position, primed to lose the next election for sure depending on how it plays out. He is spending billions of dollars on sending troops to the Gulf in preparation for war. The longer they sit there idle, the less effective they become (for soldiers it is just wearying to sit around waiting for something to happen - doesn't mean they need to be warmongers - I'm not. It is a matter of fact that the longer you have to sit around, the less effective you will be). Also, the longer they just sit there, the more the expenses pile up. Ding! Ding! Ding! That is the sound of deficits skyrocketing (after 8 years of steady decline under a truly intelligent and good, if not libido-riddled, previous president). If our troops have to sit there too long, it will hurt the US financially and, more importantly to the current administration, it will hurt chances of re-election. It wont matter if Osama finally is caught and Iraq is crushed if it ends up wrecking the US economy for several years - Bush will lose re-election. He can't have that so better to smash Saddam NOW, regardless of what almost anybody else things, and get the boys back, reducing the financial costs and better ensuring chances of re-election. Plus, he wants to give his daddy a present. Stupid kid. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/UW1i/6R1B/Yh0RAqRjAJ0V/zcZl1TxWVwKmyURDL4Yygca2gCeLuj/ cyKgzm0nN9UHI/RszzMKYgY= =6ETR -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good morning, Wobo... On Wednesday 29 January 2003 06:37 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Looking back I realize that I have made a mistake by opening this > thread. Sorry folks, I'll start a new one on my experiences with the > Beta2 of 9.1 in some minutes. And it will contain nothing about > politics! Promise. [Dave puts on a black wig and leans close to the monitor] Whisper about it in my ear. No one else will ever know. 8-) Dave - -- Dave Laird ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Used Kharma Lot / The Phoenix Project Web Page: http://www.kharma.net updated 01/20/2003 Year 2 of running Mandrake Linux workstation on a 100% Microsoft-free system. An automatic & random thought For the Minute: Don't assume that every sad-eyed woman has loved and lost -- she may have got him. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/ZRaE1ENZP1A28RAlkUAKCa4Rj1VdM1D6sIxKUCG5XgFHEBBACffKmS Ja4Pca2v1dRtyM/5WvCc39A= =gQZx -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Frankl says "To put it simply, we MUSTN'T judge Bush, because we have no idea what he knows.." I say very wrong statement,,, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We MUST Judge the Government continueally, if we are ever to hope to have a government "by the people, for the people and of the people". I think it was also Frankl that said "I just compared Mr. Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939." I would love anyone that has studied Goering-Hitler to apply the same standards and study Rush Limbaugh-Bush. That is a thesis I would read and give much consideration to. LX says "cause he got well over 9 standing ovations that I could count". I could be wrong here, but in the past I had seen (some where damn if I remember where now) that an "average" for standing ovations at a State of the Union Address was 21. Damian Gatabria said "Hard to see.. the future is. Always in motion it is impossible to see." Yoda, read from you again, good it is. James Sparenberg says; "How about if I, an American, Vetran, and Native born Citizen. Call him the scariest thing I've ever seen." How about I, an American, Vietnam Veteran, and Native born Citizen who can trace his roots back to the pilgrims and Jamestown on one side, and the Revolutionary war on the other side, says a damn loud; "ME TOO". Just wait till it's Jeb's turn to be Prez. (2008) he is a lot smarter than Geo, and that will be even scarier. Dallam Wych says; " It costs a lot of money to keep troops stationed on foreign soil, plus it pumps a lot of money into countries that dispise you anyway." unless the US Military decides to have truly "Universal Conscription" we will always be giving the "countries that dispise you" a reason to dislike the USA, since we are sending the underclass (economicly and social skill classes) to their soil. unless people like the Bush family (and lots of other Politically connected families) are required to send their children to war and not allowed to avoid the dirty parts of war (like pulling dogtags off dead bodies or packing body bags, or marking where body parts are found with flags after a jet crash, or seeing the face of someone that is "kill or be killed" for you.) then The USA has no moral high ground to stand on, in my opinion. Praedor Tempus Atrebates said; "This is WAY offtopic and would be better suited for an alt.* newsgroup. As a US Desert Storm veteran and now reservist, I think I can speak for EVERYONE that Bush is an idiot, in fact, he truly is the most ignorant, ill-educated president that the US has EVER had and that his actions, politics, and behavior is an unfortunate expression of this fact. Lets just leave it here at what we ALL can and must agree on because these are simple, objective facts. There, all fixed. Now this topic can die." Well said Praedor. Having lived a few years "on the economy" in Germany, and having had business, personal and political problems with the Bush family, being a Democrate from Miami-Dade County Fla. and having generations long family friends and neighbors of the Reno family (Janet's dad and my mom worked together for many years), I my have a somewhat different view about this than some, and I sure love to put my useless -.02$USD view here too. altho I will NOT speak about the personal and business problems I have had with the Bush family, just leave it that the business was in real estate. and the personal stuff involved Donald Rumsfeld and Bush the senior in the time frame between 1969 and 1980 (sometime in there, that ought to be vague enough to keep me out of further trouble) IMHO, the German view of Government is much more "business like" than the American view. American Government seems to be very "idealistic" and often will pass and enforce laws that are not really "by the people, for the people and of the people" in spite of any mandate. That's why we had laws like liqueur prohibition, and the Federal criminalization of Marijuana, (even where the popular vote has "legalized marijuana" the federal government steps in and says basicly, "we don't care what laws you pass, or that over half the people in the USA have done it, we ain't gonna allow this to be legal". It is a big business, and there are lots of folks in the "inner circles" making lots of money from it being against the law. In the USA you can not just go to the Apothecary and pick up a concentrated caffeine drops to help stay awake or loose weight ($15.00USD and 10 min. time), since we want you to have to see a doctor, ($70.00 TO $100.00) then go to a drug store and pay an outrageous amount of money for a drug to loose weight or stay awake (80.00 a month), and then to find out the drug will kill you 10 years from now due to some organ it weakened. To me, this is the difference, very thrifty and business like to just get what you want with the min. of interferance, as opposed to a bunch of laws (designed to
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 14:56 +, Dallam Wych wrote: > > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > > statement I doubt that you have any clue. > In all honesty, I only spend a few weeks a year now in germany as > opposed to the 1970's when I spent perhaps 3 months out of the year > there. My opinions are formed as are most everyones...by what we > read and from what friends in other countries convey to us. Call > that clueless if you like. I live here. And I am not dependent on any German papers because I watch foreign tv (CNN, BBC, NBC) as well as German tv. > And why shouldn't a european country shoulder the burden of > defending itself? Provide its own soldiers, etc? I just personally > believe that NATO isn't a viable option for the US or the UK. OK, back to the times of "Splendid Isolation". Apart from the fact that I just love England, went to school there and return twice a year for a short vacation with friends in London and Exeter, Devon, I don't care too much for British politics. I am not against a "European Military Union" instead of NATO. NATO had it's time during the cold war and Europe was a fine buffer zone for the USA but times have changed. > For the US inparticular in light of the rabid anti-americanism > there. It costs a lot of money to keep troops stationed on foreign > soil, plus it pumps a lot of money into countries that dispise you > anyway. The rabid Anti-Americanism, think back when did it start? Yes, it really started after Mr. Bush was ruled into presidency. > _world_ carried this story for at least the last week of the german > election. I could swear it was mentioned about the same time one of > the german politicians compared Bush to Hitler, but then again I > might be mistaken. Another fact that was formed by the press. What did she really say exactly? She said that Mr. Bush uses a strategy which was well known and used by mighty men like (she named a British guy I can't remember), Hitler, Napoleon, and some others back to Machiavelli. So if you read it closely all she did was stating a historical fact. Your military leaders use the same tactics as some German generals during WWII and some generals before them because they are tactics out of military books that are used in Sandhurst and Annapolis as well as in the strategy lessons all around the world. So I do compare your generals with German WWII generals? Yes but in a historical context. Just a small example of what can be done by misinformation. Not that the US administration would be too shy to do such things as trying to manipulate the media. > I think this is a matter of convenience and I feel one day in the > not to distant future given the latest franco-german manipulation of > the european union I will be proven right. No manipulation there. Or do you think Germany would face a slap in the face by the European Union if there were such manipulations? > History is full of things you can't imagine people actually were bad > enough to do. If our chanceller would do other than the parliament entitles him to do he would be out of office the same minute. Our political system works different than yours. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 08:57, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 7:55 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your > > statement I doubt that you have any clue. > I think the Germans are so scared of their OWN past, that they will allow ANY > country to do whatever they want to do to their OWN people, as long as the > cowardly germans have to do nothing! Bingo, bingo Bingo!! Man, you nailed it. Hitler has left them with no nads whatsoever. You got it before I could. LX > -- > Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ---===--- > Tomorrow's computers some time next month. > -- DEC > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:35 am, tarvid wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:07 am, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:08 am, tarvid wrote: > > > I like my horse, even though he is over 30 now. > > > > 30?! Wow. What kind of horse is he? Have you retired him to pasture > > grazing or do you actually still ride him? > > Norwegian Fjord and more of a retired cart horse than a trail horse. My > daughter rides him on ocassion. > He prefers cookies to grass although he manages to keep his 7 acre paddock > rather close. The one horse keeps 7 acres close? Are the goats helping in this regard? I/we had 2 horses and 5 acres of pasture - they'd keep patches of it close while other sections grew long enough to require mowing now and again (they don't like fescue - out pasture is a mix of fescue and...something else I don't recall). Now we have the original 2 quarter horses and a Percheron that was acquired/rescued 3 months ago. He was "donated" to the local university veterinarian school where my wife works. This meant he was almost certain to be euthanized after a little educational use by veterinarian students. We couldn't have that. We are hoping that this third horse wont overstress the pasture come spring and summer. > I keep a few goats - cashmeres, saanens and alpines. > > The place is blessed with a few dozen wild turkeys. Sound wonderful. No turkeys here (unfortunately - though we do see them around in the more forested portions of Indiana) but we have hawks, falcons, bald eagles, golden eagles, jack-rabbits, and my personal favorite, coyotes. The stench from the hog farm down the road wafts this way which gives me a "hazy perspective" but for entirely different reasons, I think, than your place does for you ;) - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/k51i/6R1B/Yh0RArdAAJ9Rp/V0Zq4qEFP9PIepnfo/AQLX4gCfcsoG nS4LdRgbplVbaNuTUoya/W0= =j03t -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 09:38, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > *snip* > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > background. > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. They swallow without even looking. LX > Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ---===--- > To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am always right. > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Re: OT Will there be a tomorrow?
With all due respect, I may have something to say here: it is also very tempting to generalize about Americans, my friend, but it is almost as dangerous. The fact that some of my compatriots may agree with the bully-ism of Dubya, does not make us all "boil in the same pot". I have been so sicken about everything our "great" president has done against economy, mockery of our international relationships, domestic civil rights (I think he even has a problem pronouncing such things in public ... haven't heard it last night, by the way?!?), and freedom of speech - ever since he was put in office by the country's "Legal Department" - that I am no more surprised that he had and has no consideration for world rights, either ... So let's go back to Mandrake - and let us all hope that what Linux meant and symbolized (and still does) for the whole world, as a community of like-minded people, capable of creating such a wonderful system, cannot be shutdown by a Bush, or a Gates, or the likes ... My $0.02 (soon to become worthless - thx, Dubya!!!), Stef P.S. Due to the nature of my job, with responsibilities of IT support throughout the world, I have had the chance to visit almost all continents, and talk to all sorts of people ... and I UNDERSTAND them, when it comes to how they may see us TODAY ... and this has nothing to do with patriotism - I think I love my country much, much more than many "bump-your-chest-kill-everyone-how-mighty-we-are-drop-a-bomb-on-all" compatriots of mine ... but I also suffer immensely when I see our unity with the world in difficult moments, having disappeared, and how much sympathy we lost ever since the September 11th tragedy, because of lack of common sense at the highest possible level ... and thinking how much people were with us immediately in the aftermath ... I just hope history puts the Jr. where Sr. ended up, come next elections ... that's all ;) And let's keep Linus "in office" :) On Wednesday 29 January 2003 08:20 am, Mike Veltman wrote: > This is not the mailinglist to be political I gues. > > But the reaction of mister burns shows me that it seems that americans feel > very misunderstood. :-) Pretty funny for a superpower that has the largest > depts in the world. > > But let us at least try to have a common goal (linux-mandrake) > > > And please respect the fact that a lot of europeans have a different view > of the Irac case. > > > Mike Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
Mr. Barszus, Please refrain from posting privately on a mailing list, it really isn't proper netiquette. - Forwarded message from Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:21 +0100 > From: Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 14:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed > > > what people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to > > > understand whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU > > > WRITE ! Your quoting is wrong, I didn't write this...you did. > > I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor > > just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? > > Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. > O yeah sure Now I see german is anti-american. And schroeder was elected > because he isanti-american. Is that what the press told you there you live ? > A really nice draw ... Maybe you should read for yourself what is going on in > the world and don't believe in all what is told you. I have a rule I use when reading any publication Mr. Barzus, which is this: There are three sides to every story, what party one says, what party two says and then the truth itself lies somewhere in the middle ground. I am quite capable of reading and interpreting for myself and as a scientist for the past 25+ years I am not in the habit of believing what is told to me. But, thank you for your concern. > I am not anti-american. > I did not elected our chancellor for being anti-american. I do not mean to be rude, but personally I could care less if you are or aren't anti-american, what you and a few of the other contributors to this thread think of my country really doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things. This will be my last post in regards to this thread. Perhaps I am wrong and maybe someone will correct me (please do)...but was it Mark Twain who said that you can't argue with fools, you will always lose? -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. > They swallow without even looking. Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:53 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 09:38, Chuck Burns wrote: > > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > *snip* > > > > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > > background. > > > > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side Guys, PLEASE! Uncalled for, ugly, and way too knee-jerk U.S.A.-conservative. Let's please cut the personal name-calling. Just stick to discussing Bush's lack of any real education and utter lack of curiosity about anything of which he is ignorant (this last part about utter lack of curiosity is cribbed from a newspaper article appearing in a local Indiana paper about a week ago - - the words are from a CONSERVATIVE journalist who spent time at the White House with Bush and friends for a while...can't recall his name right now). Oh for the days when we had a President who actually read BOOKS (comics, sports pages from newspapers don't count - nor do the stock market pages). - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/zI1i/6R1B/Yh0RAhIpAKCO4G8Y/eJE59DS398zRBGcq/2xmQCdHOrE T+jQxDxoIMJz0kJtZo5W7Gc= =lV78 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:14 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > > Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. I would say it was a case of the pot calling the kettle "black" > > > They swallow without even looking. > > Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it > up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? > > wobo looks like poop... smells like poop, feels like poop, if you think it's not poop, then you taste it Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 09:54 am, Chuck Burns wrote: > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:43 am, tarvid wrote: > *snip* > > > Bush chooses internationalism when it suits him. > > > > He scuttled Kyoto, ABM and the Biological weapons protocols and ignores > > the Viena and Geneva conventions. > > So, you think implementing a system that protects US citizens from ICMBs is > a bad thing? Come down off your high horse. He did not say that it was a bad thing, he stated simply that this constitutes a breach of the ABM treaty. > Also, when was the last time we broke the Geneva convention? The last war > was in Desert Storm, and did we torture any of those Iraqi soldiers that > surrendered without firing a shot? No, I don't think we did. We have ALWAYS > treated enemy soldiers as well, or better, than the Geneva convention > states, EVEN when our enemies did not, such as was the case in Vietnam, > where our troops were torturted with electric shock. The USA government torture(d/s) many of the detainees from the war in Afghanistan. They do this with the justification that it is necessary in order to prevent further attacks on the USA, and that these people are not really prisoners of war anyway. (I'll leave it to you to decide whether someone captured in the War in Afghanistan is a prisoner of war or not.) >I had a > doctor-friend, who was a medic back in the Vietnam war, who was captured, > during a VC raid on a hospital compound.. They beat him so severely that, > to this day, he speaks with a weak and raspy voice almost like a whisper, > because his larynx was nearly destroyed, but he is still a good doctor. > We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD > to ecologists. The real reason that it was not signed by the USA government was that it imposed environmental regulation upon its corporations and was therefore a danger to profits made by raping the environment. Do you honestly think that if Kyoto was really "nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD to ecologists." that the USA government, on behalf of its corporations would not be the very first to sign such a convention. >The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries > with NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them > alone, so, of course we didn't sign it. There are two ways to measure how polluting a country is: 1. Measuring the tons of pollutants emitted by that country. 2. Measuring the tons of pollutants emitted by that country and dividing it by the size of the population. The USA is among the top pollutants under method 1., but is frankly off the chart under method 2. The statistics are further complicated by the fact that American corporations engage in polluting abroad, which does not get measured into the amount for the USA, while the actual money resulting from this activity is shipped to the USA. If I have not been clear enough in this email about how the USA government is simply the executive of large american corporations, I present you with the following news story in an area that we all (on this list) should be knowledgeable about: Free Software. This article details how the USA government in a meeting of _Asian_ countries twisted the proceeding such that there would not be an official notice of support for open source software: http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/01/15/030115hnwsisos_1.html (http://www.pigdog.org/auto/digital_gar_gar_gar/link/2781.html) Sascha Noyes - -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+N/7igzJdfX+cTW8RAjq2AJ4s/MdSb2Ab1A37TYbH5J5BoxZkjQCeKpI7 sMv5l3egVe8Mc9Rlan7wCXM= =g9ns -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 05:17, Steffen Barszus wrote: > First of all, this is not the right place to discuss this .. but we had many > OT-discussions here, why not these... Wobo had his tit; I had the tat, then offered to take it private. Looks like it's public anyway. Fine. > > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. Especially > > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > > then? Or more likely there is something seriously wrong with the German > > side of the equation. Ah, yeah, given history, I'd say definitely so. > > > > That comment really pisses ME off. Well, good; that means the construction met design specs. > > It pisses me off when other countries that have no ethics or balls to do > > the right thing in defense of innocents criticize my country and my > > president. > > WTF ... You think war is the only way ? You think US-american have the > right for being world-police ? As Chuck pointed out, this is not a US-only deal, since Saddam has violated UN resolutions set forth after the Gulf war, which was precipitated by an Iraqi attack on Kuwait. The issue is the enforcement of the UN resolutions that have been violated, which will be done by a coalition of nations that includes the US, with the US being the lead horse. I wouldn't need to point all this out if you did'nt have your head up your a$$. > > Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to > > it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the > > ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the > > Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely > > pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like > > maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish > > this dance. > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed what > people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to understand > whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! Repeat that mantra while you are entertaining your own reflection; and when you are done, come back with some facts instead of reguritated socialist media gibberish. > We really need a different place for discuss this ... Yeah? You mean like my inbox? > -- > Regards > Steffen > LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
yeah, I'd go along with most of that.. accept for a couple of points.. 1. I stand by my comment about not Judging him.. for one thing.. if you don't know the facts, how can your judgement possibly be appropriate?? (also I was referring to the war issue, not the economy, that you can judge for yourself because it speaks for itself..) He gets judged by those that know.. and unfortunately that isn't us. history will judge him as well, and that's good because history has a much better chance of knowing the relevant facts. 1.1 Your analogy is like those windows users that adversely judge Linux without having ever seen or tried it.. how can they judge something they have never known.. ??? 2. If your family was in a building or a plane or whatever that either an Iraq agent, or an Iraq sponsored terrorist took down,, you would probably find yourself at the forefront of the war crying.. We don't know all the facts.. Those who do not heed the past are destined to repeat it.. so he is at least making an effort to stop something before it happens now.. history is full of cases where no action was taken till it was too late.. who knows, he might actually stop the next 9/11, but he will get no praise for it.. but if he went and gained retribution AFTER the act had taken place, he'd be called an American hero or words to that effect.. just as he did with 9/11 and Afghanistan... He would probably rather be a hero then an unremembered nobody.. but still he is making an effort to stop something happening BEFORE it kills a heap of people.. 3. Oil, I don't recall hearing that the Oil fields that the US liberated in Desert storm are now owned by the US did I miss some important news flyer here??? who is running Kuwait now??? I wasn't aware it was the yanks.. The only things I think that bush has done so far: 1. Not enough explanation of his reasons for it happening now instead of 5-10 years ago to the world at large. 2. Not taking Nth Korea every bit as seriously as Iraq or explaining why they haven't. 3. Not waiting till the UN decreed it.. he should have had agents in there looking and watching for the weapons long before now if there were mass destruction weapons over there.. (after all, the US spends billions on intelligence agencies, satellites etc.. one would think they would have some idea where the weapons were moved, or at least some idea of the areas. if a satellite can read your number plate, it should have a good chance of catching a convoy of flatbed trucks or other sus looking activities, that's an extreme generalisation, but you see what I mean.) I could go on.. but you get my point, I am simply saying that unless you know what they know, you are in no position to declare them right or wrong.. end of story.. They are probably wrong,, who knows, but if they are right, should we wait till thousands or millions die before we do anything Lack of knowledge (ours in this case) is the biggest enemy.. I keep an open mind about this stuff till I know the facts.. I also think I have somewhat of a different perspective here.. I am of German/polish heritage, and I am not in the US.. So I am not just jumping on the war bandwagon.. but history is far to full of retaliation and not enough prevention... By the same token, this will all be history in 20 years, regardless of the outcome.. not much we say here has any bearing on it anyway... So, does anyone have something nice to say about 9.1 rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of et Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Frankl says "To put it simply, we MUSTN'T judge Bush, because we have no idea what he knows.." I say very wrong statement,,, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We MUST Judge the Government continueally, if we are ever to hope to have a government "by the people, for the people and of the people". I think it was also Frankl that said "I just compared Mr. Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939." I would love anyone that has studied Goering-Hitler to apply the same standards and study Rush Limbaugh-Bush. That is a thesis I would read and give much consideration to. LX says "cause he got well over 9 standing ovations that I could count". I could be wrong here, but in the past I had seen (some where damn if I remember where now) that an "average" for standing ovations at a State of the Union Address was 21. Damian Gatabria said "Hard to see.. the future is. Always in motion it is impossible to see." Yoda, read from you again, good it is. James Sparenberg says; "How about if I, an American, Vetran, and Native born Citizen. Call him the scariest thing I've ever seen." How about I, an American, Vietnam Veteran, and Native born Citizen who can trace his roots back to the pilgrims and Jamestown on one side, and the Revolutionary war on the other side, says a damn
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:14 -0500, et wrote: > > looks like poop... smells like poop, feels like poop, if you think it's not > poop, then you taste it In this case I'd rather put it like this: Looks like poop... smells like poop... feels like poop. Now it's up to you to believe or not when the man says: "Naw, it's not poop! Trust me, I know what I'm doing!" wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:53 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 09:38, Chuck Burns wrote: > > On Wed, January 29 2003 8:32 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > *snip* > > > > > Yes, I know that one and I just love it. > > > It's a very good example of putting the words so extreme that only a > > > very dumb person doesn't realize it's a joke with a very serious > > > background. > > > > I see that you completely ignored my post, and focused instead on my > > auto-generated fortune-sig. That must have taken a total lack of guts. > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > They swallow without even looking. The terms "socialist" and "liberal" are mutually exclusive. Sascha Noyes > > LX > > > Chuck Burns, Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > ---===--- > > To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am always > > right. > > > > > > > > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com - -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OAIugzJdfX+cTW8RAsgIAJ42YVV2tu+DCIBWElZvA1WYkpkMswCeKi0E gdhbr3wtz9uuZkpcyUtxCB4= =aPwQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 10:36, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > There is a little thing of lost oil field control by US oil companies as a > result of all the Desert Storm, etc, ugliness. Bush would love nothing more > than to install a friendly leader in Iraq who would then turn over the oil > fields in question to their former US oil company "owners". Ties into both > Bush's and Cheny's former business partners in the business. Your information is speculative and has zero reality. The oil will be controlled by a coalition of countries, and not by the US unilaterally. You need to watch something else besides the Commie News Network. > I was on B-52s in Desert Storm. The Soviet stuff had my attention (I was an > electronic warfare officer - bomber electronic defensive systems) but the > only weapons I actually had any fear of were the US-supplied HAWK missile > systems. We were geared to deal with Soviet equipment and there is just not > a lot that can be done to a HAWK missile wrt jamming/spoofing. That's quite impressive, because judging from many of your previous posts I had you pegged for a child of sixteen or so. > Bush is also in a precarious position, primed to lose the next election for > sure depending on how it plays out. He is spending billions of dollars on > sending troops to the Gulf in preparation for war. The longer they sit there > idle, the less effective they become (for soldiers it is just wearying to sit > around waiting for something to happen - doesn't mean they need to be > warmongers - I'm not. It is a matter of fact that the longer you have to sit > around, the less effective you will be). Also, the longer they just sit > there, the more the expenses pile up. Ding! Ding! Ding! That is the sound > of deficits skyrocketing (after 8 years of steady decline under a truly > intelligent and good, if not libido-riddled, previous president). If our > troops have to sit there too long, it will hurt the US financially and, more > importantly to the current administration, it will hurt chances of > re-election. It wont matter if Osama finally is caught and Iraq is crushed > if it ends up wrecking the US economy for several years - Bush will lose > re-election. He can't have that so better to smash Saddam NOW, regardless of > what almost anybody else things, and get the boys back, reducing the > financial costs and better ensuring chances of re-election. > > Plus, he wants to give his daddy a present. Stupid kid. Funny, that last comment is what I think after I finish looking at your post subject lines. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The only reason that he posted privately (by error) is that you have got a "reply to" set while discussing on a mailing list. Sorry, but that is your fault. Sascha Noyes On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:08 am, Dallam Wych wrote: > Mr. Barszus, > Please refrain from posting privately on a mailing list, it really > isn't proper netiquette. > > - Forwarded message from Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - > > > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:21 +0100 > > From: Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 14:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you > > > > informed what people here in germany think ? How much are you > > > > interested to understand whats going on in minds here ? I would say > > > > THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! > > Your quoting is wrong, I didn't write this...you did. > > > > I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor > > > just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? > > > Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. > > > > O yeah sure Now I see german is anti-american. And schroeder was > > elected because he isanti-american. Is that what the press told you there > > you live ? A really nice draw ... Maybe you should read for yourself what > > is going on in the world and don't believe in all what is told you. > > I have a rule I use when reading any publication Mr. Barzus, which > is this: There are three sides to every story, what party one says, > what party two says and then the truth itself lies somewhere in the > middle ground. I am quite capable of reading and interpreting for > myself and as a scientist for the past 25+ years I am not in the > habit of believing what is told to me. But, thank you for your > concern. > > > I am not anti-american. > > I did not elected our chancellor for being anti-american. > > I do not mean to be rude, but personally I could care less if you > are or aren't anti-american, what you and a few of the other > contributors to this thread think of my country really doesn't > matter in the overall scheme of things. > This will be my last post in regards to this thread. Perhaps I am > wrong and maybe someone will correct me (please do)...but was it > Mark Twain who said that you can't argue with fools, you will always > lose? - -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OAKagzJdfX+cTW8RAnUgAKCMJDnsQPg6VNgXdpRWh4Rq0HJwkACfSlaS UUlA+AffKEYz1VhpYCRDB7E= =IzXD -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Hi! I'm a guy living in Argentina, far away from the bullets. El Mié 29 Ene 2003 10:23, Franki escribió: > You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without fighting... > (assuming he is guilty.) > > what are the alternatives.??? There are always alternatives. May be leave the iraquies alone Like a lot of US presidents did with Latin American in the past. It's known that in the past there were here a lot of Military presidents that didn't respect human rights and the us presidents never took action against them. More to say in Chile with President Alende... US was involve in the killing of Alende trough this guy called Kissinger. And it was a president voted by the people. And US supported the military president that come after that. Almost the same happend here in Argentina and Brasil. So... Please excuse me if I dont believe in your president. I don't trust anymore in a president that have to hide "evidence" in the behave of the people. Here in Argentina we suffer the doctrine of "national security" (of course... with the support of the US). So... to me the only explanation to the action taken by Bush administration is about oil and money. Nothing else. there no comunist to fight this time. > > I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know > enough as civilians to make the distinction... That is very sad to hear. And coming from an american, is very disappointing. I think that the civilians need to know so they can control what rule you. My two cents. > > > > rgds > > Franki > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 8:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > > democracy... > > anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own > > generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had > > no > > > real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. > > That doesn't sound much like what is going on in the US at the moment.. > > You are right with this. I did not compare the situation in the USA of > today with the situation in Germany in the 30ies. I just compared Mr. > Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939. > > > everyone keeps saying "War is not the way" > > Correct. "War is commencing policy by different means." This quote > (can't remember who said that) doesn't apply any more in modern times. > Back when this quote was made war took place in the field. > > There were soldiers whose profession it was to go to war. They were > called "warriors". Was the girl killed in 9/11 or the man in the > streets of Oklahoma or the tourist in Djerba or on Bali, were they > warriors? NO. > > War has changed to something NOBODY can controll any more. All those > brave soldiers with their fine toys and their "Yes, Sir - No, Sir!" > mentality, they are just a part of war. If Saddam has to fight a > military action of the USA we all will be not warriors but potential > victims of that war. No matter how military actions proceed in Iraq, > there will always be enough terrorists ready to "revenge" whatever > they claim to be to revenge. > > > I'd like someone to give us an alternative for getting rid of saddam.. > > does > > > anyone have one? > > Sanctions didn't work against him... just starved his people and made the > > west look like assholes (because saddam tells the people that the west > > are the reason they are starving). > > > > He has been doing the same stuff since 91 and none of the UN stuff has > > worked worth a damn.. > > > > So what is this "alternative" so many speak of?? bribe him to leave?? > > assasinate him?? what?? lets hear the alternatives. > > One last thing, If there is nothing to what the US has been saying... > > then the UN would not be putting the pressure on iraq that they are > > now... so there must be something to it... > > The UN - looks like USA regards themselves not a member any more. All > I hear is "We want this and UN wants that!". The community of world's > people - nothing else is the UN! - has a board of directors if you may > say so, it has no CEO! Maybe Mr. Bush does not know this... > > The UN does what the people want from them - they put pressure on > Saddam to find out what's going on to then decide for action. The UN > is not shy to start military actions - read the resolutions of former > conflicts. > > > Also, if the US do know stuff we don't.. its possible they can't say > > because > > > they have probably been trying to put spy's over there since 91.. if it > > comes to a choise between revealing all, getting their spy's killed and > > losing their data... what would you do??? > > There is a point where all this has come into the open.
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:29 am, Franki wrote: > 3. Oil, I don't recall hearing that the Oil fields that the US liberated in > Desert storm are now owned by the US did I miss some important news > flyer here??? who is running Kuwait now??? I wasn't aware it was the No oil fields were taken after desert storm. In previous years when we were fast friends with Iraq, US oil companies invested a lot in Iraqi oil development/oil fields. Not very different than France, Russia, etc. When we decided that Iraq was no longer a friend (it was never a nice place - Saddam hasn't changed between then and now) it lost us those investments. It's kind of like the rabid, illogical hatred/fear that many Republicans have wrt Cuba. Cuba is SUCH a threat (that is sarcasm, by the way). They are s evil. No. What makes them sooo evil and bad is the lost investment that US companies suffered when it fell to Castro - not that the previous Cuban situation that the US gov't LIKED was good for the local citizens, but that doesn't matter because US companies were squeezing big bucks from their investments in Cuba. A not-insignificant part of the US gov't drive to go after Saddam/Iraq is oil. It certainly wont upset US oil companies if they will regain access to their investments. praedor -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - Friedrich Nietzsche. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Keep talking sonny. Oh, that is until the terrorists come and bomb your insignificant little cities like Aarhus, Copenhagen ...etc. Then, just maybe THAT will change your mind. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:50 PM To: Experts Subject: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a future for MandrakeSoft. After tonight I wonder whether there will be a future for us all and the world as we know it. I listened to the US-Amercan president. I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has scare me to death. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
I beg your all pardon but I could not keep my fingers away from the keyboard after such a stupid things written below. First, Bush (and I put him apart from USA because America, despite elected him, is greater than that asshole) never signed Kyoto Protocol, but USA (Clinton) had previously signed an Intention Protocol. Kyoto was just to formalise what many nation had agreed before, including Europe, China and Russia, the other big polluters. BTW, American democracy is interesting since Al Gore had more votes than Bush and we shall never know what happen at Jeb Bush's farm (I mean, Florida). Second, despite all technology today, still is USA the biggest, worst, very far, ever polluting country in all time of Human History. This is a fact. USA is responsible by 25% of the world pollution and has <5% of world population. Bush said that a recession would be worst to the world than pollution. But if we do not have world? If every human on Earth lived as an American it would be necessary 4 Earths to sustain us. Nowadays we are consuming 1.2 Earth, so, we are destroying our world. I regret that Bush Jr. represents such a great people and nation, but do you know which American president had the worst I.Q.? Bush father, who were now surpassed by his son. Petroleum will finish someday not far from today, and then, who will be the next? Brazil? Which has 20% of potable water of the world, or will America assault Antarctic? USA has one of the cheapest gasoline among rich countries. Bush and Cheney came from Oil Companies. Have you ask yourself if the reason of this war is really against terrorism or just to keep oil prices down? Sharon was reelect in Israel. I'm really concerned about Americans doing the same, i.e, keeping that jerk for another term. Pardon Praedor, but I could not help myself considering this subject over. However I shall not write anymore about it. On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Chuck Burns wrote: > > So, you think implementing a system that protects US citizens from ICMBs is a > bad thing? Come down off your high horse. > Also, when was the last time we broke the Geneva convention? The last war was > in Desert Storm, and did we torture any of those Iraqi soldiers that > surrendered without firing a shot? No, I don't think we did. We have ALWAYS > treated enemy soldiers as well, or better, than the Geneva convention states, > EVEN when our enemies did not, such as was the case in Vietnam, where our > troops were tortured with electric shock. I had a doctor-friend, who was a > medic back in the Vietnam war, who was captured, during a VC raid on a > hospital compound.. They beat him so severely that, to this day, he speaks > with a weak and raspy voice almost like a whisper, because his larynx was > nearly destroyed, but he is still a good doctor. > We never SIGNED Kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD to > ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries with > NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them alone, > so, of course we didn't sign it. --- Alan Wilter S. da Silva --- Laboratório de Física Biológica Instituto de Biofísica Carlos Chagas Filho Universidade do Brasil/UFRJ Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:34:31AM -0500, Sascha Noyes wrote: > The only reason that he posted privately (by error) is that you have got a > "reply to" set while discussing on a mailing list. > Sorry, but that is your fault. I don't think so, I think it is a kmail thing. It isn't my mutts fault that someones mailer can't deferentiate between a list reply and a personal reply. I gather then that in kmail you don't have an "r" option for a reply as opposed to "L" for a list reply? -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:29, Franki wrote: > Those who do not heed the past are destined to repeat it.. so he is at least > making an effort to stop something before it happens now.. history is full > of cases where no action was taken till it was too late.. who knows, he > might actually stop the next 9/11, but he will get no praise for it.. but if > he went and gained retribution AFTER the act had taken place, he'd be called > an American hero or words to that effect.. just as he did with 9/11 and > Afghanistan... He would probably rather be a hero then an unremembered > nobody.. but still he is making an effort to stop something happening BEFORE > it kills a heap of people.. Gotta jump in here and point out that a long line of American interventions into the affairs of sovereign nations show that American foreign policy is certainly not "heeding the past" today. Long line of friendly dictators installed by Americans that turn into enemies. The "enemy of my enemy" approach doesn't seem to work out so well, either. Shah in Iran, Pinochet in Chile, Noriega in Panama, Al Queda and then the Taliban in Afganistan, Saddam in Iraq .. who's going to be added to this list when Saddam falls? I think you'd need to be quite ignorant of history to be willing to risk a repeat performance here.. My $.02. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
El Mié 29 Ene 2003 11:54, Chuck Burns escribió: > We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK GOOD > to ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world countries > with NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty left them > alone, so, of course we didn't sign it. That crap men. the 3rd world countries didn't have industries. so is very difficult to polute in that way The exxon valdez was and american bote right? -- = Lic. Alfredo Carlos López INIFTA - UNLP Phone: +54-221-425 7430 Instituto de InvestigacionesFax: +54-221-425 4642 Fisicoquímicas Teórica y Aplicada. Suc. 4 C.C. 16 1900 La Plata, Argentina Calle 68 nro.74 (e118/119) Dto. 15Phone: +54-221-423 6240 1900 La Plata, Argentina Cell-Phone: +54-221-(15) 455 0141 = "One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 17:08, Dallam Wych wrote: > Mr. Barszus, > Please refrain from posting privately on a mailing list, it really > isn't proper netiquette. > Sorry that I did not checked if your reply-to header is set right. I know it is bad behavior and you would know it that I know it after reading my sig. > - Forwarded message from Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - > > > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:21 +0100 > > From: Steffen Barszus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 14:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you > > > > informed what people here in germany think ? How much are you > > > > interested to understand whats going on in minds here ? I would say > > > > THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! > > Your quoting is wrong, I didn't write this...you did. So I need to update kmail ;) . My intend was to quote the text you have answered too. Sorry for that. > This will be my last post in regards to this thread. Perhaps I am > wrong and maybe someone will correct me (please do)...but was it > Mark Twain who said that you can't argue with fools, you will always > lose? Thanks for your judge about me -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
first of all... repeat after me. "FRANKI IS NOT AN AMERICAN" :-) I'm an Aussie... Second.. the US must be spending what ?? 5-10 millian a day at the very least, probably a good deal more, putting all that military might around iraq... and its been going on for a very long time... That sort of money would take along time to get recompensed by iraq oil, particularly since the US would still have to pay for it anyway, and would have no direct control over it... as with Kuwait Yes... presidents have looked the other way many times in the past.. maybe its time to stop that??? Tibet is a good example to me is Tibet.. the chinese have all but totally crushed the wonderous culture of that country.. but in the 50's no one lifted a damn finger to stop them.. and thats not just the US.. thats everybody.. History is full of that as well.. maybe its time to stick up for the underdogs and try and make the whole world a democracy in some form or another I actually agree with the observation made earlier that Germany has a much more business like government then most other countries.. and I agree that from an economical perspective,, thats a really good thing.. from a military perspective, its a bad thing, because the people that don't know all the facts, can overrule the ones that do.. but overall I wish australia was run the same way... in Australia, our politicial parties spend all their time attacking each others policies instead of promoting the merits of their own policies .. If I had two wishes for the perfect democracy.. I would ask that a law be put in place where political parties MUST NOT attack their opposition at ever step and must instead promote the benefits of their own party and policies instead of relying on attaching everyone elses.. The other wish would be that issues of a military nature should be discussed by a commitee of the smartest people in the country, not the most popular.. intellegence and knowledge should be the prerequsite to being on that commitee... The very smartest minds in the country... regardless of their industry or occupation. And that commitee should have the ability to veto the head of state in issues of a military nature, and must have the ability to propose and act on actions decided upon by the commitee.. That way, the best minds are the ones making the important decisions, not politicians.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alfredo C. López Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Hi! I'm a guy living in Argentina, far away from the bullets. El Mié 29 Ene 2003 10:23, Franki escribió: > You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without fighting... > (assuming he is guilty.) > > what are the alternatives.??? There are always alternatives. May be leave the iraquies alone Like a lot of US presidents did with Latin American in the past. It's known that in the past there were here a lot of Military presidents that didn't respect human rights and the us presidents never took action against them. More to say in Chile with President Alende... US was involve in the killing of Alende trough this guy called Kissinger. And it was a president voted by the people. And US supported the military president that come after that. Almost the same happend here in Argentina and Brasil. So... Please excuse me if I dont believe in your president. I don't trust anymore in a president that have to hide "evidence" in the behave of the people. Here in Argentina we suffer the doctrine of "national security" (of course... with the support of the US). So... to me the only explanation to the action taken by Bush administration is about oil and money. Nothing else. there no comunist to fight this time. > > I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know > enough as civilians to make the distinction... That is very sad to hear. And coming from an american, is very disappointing. I think that the civilians need to know so they can control what rule you. My two cents. > > > > rgds > > Franki > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 8:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > > democracy... > > anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own > > generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had > > no > > > real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. > > That doesn't sound much like what is going on in the US at the moment.. > > You are right with this. I did not compare the situation in the USA of > today with the situation in Germany in the
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +0100, Steffen Barszus wrote: > Sorry that I did not checked if your reply-to header is set right. I know it > is bad behavior and you would know it that I know it after reading my sig. > So I need to update kmail ;) . My intend was to quote the text you have > answered too. Sorry for that. No problem. > Thanks for your judge about me Actually, it isn't a judgement about you at all. This is the problem with discussing politics, religion, etc...people (myself included) get very passionate about what they believe and say things that really don't need to be said. I apologize to you for the last comment, it was totally uncalled for. -- Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
maybe they are learning.. albiet slowly.. They did not put a dictator in charge of afganistan... they tried to start a democracy if memory serves... it doesn't seem to be working to well so far, but thats what they did.. I can only assume they would do the same in Iraq.. if not because they learned from history. then because there is no military power in iraq now that the US could aid in taking power.. Saddam saw to that... rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mick Szucs Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:29, Franki wrote: > Those who do not heed the past are destined to repeat it.. so he is at least > making an effort to stop something before it happens now.. history is full > of cases where no action was taken till it was too late.. who knows, he > might actually stop the next 9/11, but he will get no praise for it.. but if > he went and gained retribution AFTER the act had taken place, he'd be called > an American hero or words to that effect.. just as he did with 9/11 and > Afghanistan... He would probably rather be a hero then an unremembered > nobody.. but still he is making an effort to stop something happening BEFORE > it kills a heap of people.. Gotta jump in here and point out that a long line of American interventions into the affairs of sovereign nations show that American foreign policy is certainly not "heeding the past" today. Long line of friendly dictators installed by Americans that turn into enemies. The "enemy of my enemy" approach doesn't seem to work out so well, either. Shah in Iran, Pinochet in Chile, Noriega in Panama, Al Queda and then the Taliban in Afganistan, Saddam in Iraq .. who's going to be added to this list when Saddam falls? I think you'd need to be quite ignorant of history to be willing to risk a repeat performance here.. My $.02. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:46 am, Alan Wilter Sousa da Silva wrote: > I beg your all pardon but I could not keep my fingers away from the > keyboard after such a stupid things written below. [...] > Pardon Praedor, but I could not help myself considering this subject over. > However I shall not write anymore about it. Heh! I'm as guilty as you are in writing on the subject. It is immensely difficult to hold the tongue (fingers?) when certain things are stated. Plus, I wanted to make sure that within the USA chorus there were a number of US citizens with contrary views to those of the court-appointed US president and his apologists - I count several besides myself in this list thus far. Not all Americans respond with reflex support for what the current person in the White House says. I just "loved" some of his proposals: the one where he mentions saving the forests from being ravaged by fires - HAH! That is newspeak for "give full access to timber companies so they can "thin" the trees, particularly that nasty old-growth garbage"...totally ignoring the fact that controlled burning is superior to cutting timber in this regard. Amazing how the extensive (one-time) forests of the North American continent managed to exist at all for so many thousands of years without such protectors as Bush Republicans being there to cut it all to shreds for "its own good". His "give the elderly access to drug benefits" means giving up their long-time doctors and joining a least-common-denominator HMO where any treatment that actually may extend/save lives is deemed "experimental" and thus not covered. You get the old-fashioned, largely ineffective treatments of yesteryear because they are cheaper. Period. Oh, and the drug benefit still costs the seniors an arm - somewhat better than an arm-and-a-leg as it is now. His "clear skies" initiative to clean up the air...means allowing power plants to produce MORE pollution and NOT add new/improved scrubbers. It means NOT requiring imminently doable mandated increases in CAFE standards for ALL cars/trucks. He had the audacity to mention fuel-cell automobile development too (apparently he couldn't recall the term "fuel-cell" and used a long, drawn-out description of using hydrogen for fuel and producing just water) - this after he tore the Gore campaign apart for advocating fuel-cell and hybrid vehicles, referring to them as jokes instead of real useful technologies. His proposal to ban ALL human cloning. Not just reproductive cloning, which you could possibly get some broad agreement on, but ALL cloning. This means that top-notch scientists will leave the US (if such a ban comes to pass - I happen to know some already are or are planning to) because all the real research will be conducted in Great Britain, France, and other European and Asian countries (Japan and China in particular) - don't know about Germany. This isn't about stopping someone from cloning themselves to make a baby (big deal), it is about stopping the creation of cures for many many diseases. It means a ban on cloning human stem cell lines (therapeutic cloning which could "fix" damaged neural tissue in epileptics, stroke victims, etc, correct heart tissue damage due to heart attack, prevent tissue engineering work targetted at growing new replacement organs). The list goes on. It is all tied to his lack of ability to understand anything having to do with science, and his total lack of curiosity about anything he doesn't currently understand. He just wants to bury his face in a bible and quit thinking. His mantra for "jumpstarting" the US economy is to give ever greater tax cuts to the wealthiest individuals, period, inspit of the fact that many of the RICHEST (Including the anti-christ Bill Gates) are against it. Who better to speak for the wealthy than Bill Gates? Bah! He's an idiot and if allowed to follow his path with some good blocking from the Senate minority, he will stumble as he must and be replaced next term. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OAwr1i/6R1B/Yh0RAr0vAKCVEixK2JQGolXKK3auVbp91TxnMgCeL1vs ogfc5b3/yUwU9WgYfOdnt5I= =4DrQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:14, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > > Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. Of course you don't. > > They swallow without even looking. > > Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it > up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? You tell me; you're the one that's full of shit. > wobo > -- LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
I wish you people would quit cluttering my mailbox with all this crap. There are other lists where this would be appropriate. "Franki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote .. > first of all... repeat after me. "FRANKI IS NOT AN AMERICAN" :-) > > I'm an Aussie... > > Second.. the US must be spending what ?? 5-10 millian a day at the very > least, probably a good deal more, putting all that military might around > iraq... and its been going on for a very long time... > > That sort of money would take along time to get recompensed by iraq oil, > particularly since the US would still have to pay for it anyway, and would > have no direct control over it... as with Kuwait > > Yes... presidents have looked the other way many times in the past.. maybe > its time to stop that??? > > Tibet is a good example to me is Tibet.. the chinese have all but totally > crushed the wonderous culture of that country.. but in the 50's no one > lifted a damn finger to stop them.. and thats not just the US.. thats > everybody.. > > History is full of that as well.. maybe its time to stick up for the > underdogs and try and make the whole world a democracy in some form or > another > > I actually agree with the observation made earlier that Germany has a much > more business like government then most other countries.. and I agree that > from an economical perspective,, thats a really good thing.. from a > military perspective, its a bad thing, because the people that don't know > all the facts, can overrule the ones that do.. > > but overall I wish australia was run the same way... in Australia, our > politicial parties spend all their time attacking each others policies > instead of promoting the merits of their own policies .. > > If I had two wishes for the perfect democracy.. I would ask that a law > be > put in place where political parties MUST NOT attack their opposition at > ever step and must instead promote the benefits of their own party and > policies instead of relying on attaching everyone elses.. > The other wish would be that issues of a military nature should be discussed > by a commitee of the smartest people in the country, not the most popular.. > intellegence and knowledge should be the prerequsite to being on that > commitee... The very smartest minds in the country... regardless of their > industry or occupation. > > And that commitee should have the ability to veto the head of state in > issues of a military nature, and must have the ability to propose and act > on > actions decided upon by the commitee.. > > That way, the best minds are the ones making the important decisions, not > politicians.. > > rgds > > Franki > > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alfredo C. López > Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:34 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > Hi! > > I'm a guy living in Argentina, far away from the bullets. > > El Mié 29 Ene 2003 10:23, Franki escribió: > > You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without > fighting... > > (assuming he is guilty.) > > > > what are the alternatives.??? > > There are always alternatives. May be leave the iraquies alone > Like a lot of US presidents did with Latin American in the past. > It's known that in the past there were here a lot of Military presidents > that > didn't respect human rights and the us presidents never took action against > them. > More to say in Chile with President Alende... US was involve in the > killing of Alende trough this guy called Kissinger. And it was a president > voted by the people. And US supported the military president that come > after > that. Almost the same happend here in Argentina and Brasil. > So... Please excuse me if I dont believe in your president. I don't trust > anymore in a president that have to hide "evidence" in the behave of the > people. Here in Argentina we suffer the doctrine of "national security" > (of > course... with the support of the US). > So... to me the only explanation to the action taken by Bush > administration is about oil and money. Nothing else. there no comunist > to > fight this time. > > > > > > I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know > > enough as civilians to make the distinction... > > That is very sad to hear. And coming from an american, is very > disappointing. > I think that the civilians need to know so they can control what rule > you. > My two cents. > > > > > > > > > rgds > > > > Franki > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 8:59 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > > > dem
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:57 am, Alfredo C. López wrote: > El Mié 29 Ene 2003 11:54, Chuck Burns escribió: > > We never SIGNED kyoto, because it was nothing more than a ploy to LOOK > > GOOD to ecologists. The WORST polluting countries are the 3rd world > > countries with NO environmental protection agencies, and the Kyoto treaty > > left them alone, so, of course we didn't sign it. > > That crap men. the 3rd world countries didn't have industries. so > is very difficult to polute in that way > The exxon valdez was and american bote right? This sort of argument is erroneous for many basic reasons. A factory in a 3rd World Nation will likely pollute like crazy relative to any developed nation's factories, but there is only one or two such factories and so many fewer citizens doing their own damage. Then you have the US with many MANY factories/power plants, all putting out much less pollution PER PLANT but the sheer number of plants and the number of people doing their own polluting (a lot less than an INDIVIDUAL citizen of a 3rd World Nation) adds up to MUCH more pollution overall than a given 3rd World Nation could even aspire to produce. A lot of a little can easily add up to more than a little of a lot. And in this case, it does. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OA2G1i/6R1B/Yh0RAgBlAJ4m73JGkVCe0wjU+n1tqZXjTL8WHgCeKd6y IkzCrB6w9USnd4Zu4qZWvdI= =Oyf6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:32 am, Sascha Noyes wrote: > The terms "socialist" and "liberal" are mutually exclusive. > > Sascha Noyes so that is your final say on that? or how do you realy feel? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [st_barszus@gmx.de: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?]
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 18:23, Dallam Wych wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +0100, Steffen Barszus wrote: > > Sorry that I did not checked if your reply-to header is set right. I know > > it is bad behavior and you would know it that I know it after reading my > > sig. > > > > > > So I need to update kmail ;) . My intend was to quote the text you have > > answered too. Sorry for that. > > No problem. > > > Thanks for your judge about me > > Actually, it isn't a judgement about you at all. This is the problem > with discussing politics, religion, etc...people (myself included) > get very passionate about what they believe and say things that > really don't need to be said. > I apologize to you for the last comment, it was totally uncalled > for. Thanks :-) And yes we all have to calm down a lot. We have different socialization and different meanings. And we should be glad we are able to discuss it here (or elsewhere). -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
chill out guys, I like a heated discussion as much as the next guy, but when it degenerates to name calling and personal attacks, its not a discussion anymore.. its childish namecalling.. and I stopped doing that when I turned 27 some years back.. :-) rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lyvim Xaphir Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 1:14 AM To: ExpertMandrake-List Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 11:14, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:53 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > That's right, Chuck; that's exactly what you would expect from a > > brainwashed socialist liberal with absolutely no facts on their side > > except for worthless emotional outbursts created by the flood of > > brainwash diarrea from the communist socialists they call their media. > > Of course you know exactly what you want to say with this? I do not. Of course you don't. > > They swallow without even looking. > > Now what is better? Swallowing the shit without looking or looking it > up closely and then swallow it anyway like you apparently do? You tell me; you're the one that's full of shit. > wobo > -- LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:18, Franki wrote: > maybe they are learning.. albiet slowly.. > > They did not put a dictator in charge of afganistan... they tried to start a > democracy if memory serves... Poor wording on my part - I was referring to the Millions of dollars in aid, weapons and training provided to Al Queda in the 80s, and the millions of dollars that Dubya's administration gave to the Taliban in 2001. And what is democratic about having your leader appointed by a foreign authority, anyhow? > I can only assume they would do the same in Iraq.. if not because they > learned from history. then because there is no military power in iraq now > that the US could aid in taking power.. Saddam saw to that... Dictators are a better bet than democracy, at least from an economic standpoint. The people of the country suffer, but you can't make an omelet (i.e. get access to cheap Oil in this case) without breaking a few eggs (i.e. murdering millions of civilians.) While we're learning from history, see U.S. involvement in Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador for some examples. Wow - I've not yet seen a single message related to Mandrake on here since I joined. I take that as an encouraging sign, the more dialog on these issues, the better off we all will be. My $.03, now. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:23 pm, Mark Weaver wrote: > Wolfgang Bornath wrote: [...] > > Last polls in USA show that nearly half of the American people don't > > want war against Iraq in any case. In Germany our chancellor wouldn't > > get away with doing something like that without a large majority on > > his side. And he'd never get that majority. [...] > > I sincerely wish that it was that way here. sadly, it would appear that > america's people, for better or worse, are along for the ride. It is actually something like 30-ish% support going in without evidence, thus most are against this notion, while 70-ish% are for it WITH proof. So far, no proof, just the words, "you have to trust me on this". Doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBAT1i/6R1B/Yh0RAjoeAKCkVPDEGo4tOxdWPXxfEkc54sCVrwCfTfup oLrqm25Fld2QyKih0Q2RbxI= =amaI -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:24 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I wish you people would quit cluttering my mailbox with all this crap. > There are other lists where this would be appropriate. > > "Franki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote .. > > > first of all... repeat after me. "FRANKI IS NOT AN AMERICAN" :-) > > > > I'm an Aussie... [...] Heh. Just joining the list? At least you got in 'early'. Anyone who fires up the email latter in the day will be barraged. Better and more extensive than spam! At least it is an easy filter rule based on subject line. It will die down eventually. Perhaps as soon as one of the more inflammatory individuals needs help with a problem on their system and have to accept the aid of their new-found list "enemy". - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBAv1i/6R1B/Yh0RAo2fAJ9cfFf0qyt/ccWpchj555xz+4YvGgCeIKet eX3bo54lWyQJdTj4fMmMIkQ= =dc74 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
interestingly enough, the newbie list has been on topic all night... go figure :-) And what is democratic about having your leader appointed by a foreign authority, anyhow? Didn't they get all the leaders of the various tribes together and let them elect one to lead??? Short of a dictator, what else could they do??? Dictators are a better bet than democracy, at least from an economic standpoint. The people of the country suffer, but you can't make an omelet (i.e. get access to cheap Oil in this case) without breaking a few eggs (i.e. murdering millions of civilians.) While we're learning from history, see U.S. involvement in Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador for some examples. I think most of the dictators were because its well known that you are more likely to win a war if you have an inside advantage... and that usually results in a dictator at the end of it all... Its definately wrong, The US has scored very badly in the past, but its history.. And I hope like hell they learn from it. believe it or not.. often a dictator is better economically then a democracy (at least initially).. simply because the leader need not worry about public opinion.. but that certainly doesn't make it right... rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mick Szucs Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 1:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:18, Franki wrote: > maybe they are learning.. albiet slowly.. > > They did not put a dictator in charge of afganistan... they tried to start a > democracy if memory serves... Poor wording on my part - I was referring to the Millions of dollars in aid, weapons and training provided to Al Queda in the 80s, and the millions of dollars that Dubya's administration gave to the Taliban in 2001. And what is democratic about having your leader appointed by a foreign authority, anyhow? > I can only assume they would do the same in Iraq.. if not because they > learned from history. then because there is no military power in iraq now > that the US could aid in taking power.. Saddam saw to that... Dictators are a better bet than democracy, at least from an economic standpoint. The people of the country suffer, but you can't make an omelet (i.e. get access to cheap Oil in this case) without breaking a few eggs (i.e. murdering millions of civilians.) While we're learning from history, see U.S. involvement in Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador for some examples. Wow - I've not yet seen a single message related to Mandrake on here since I joined. I take that as an encouraging sign, the more dialog on these issues, the better off we all will be. My $.03, now. Mick Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? The sun will come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:45 pm, Franki wrote: [...] > believe it or not.. often a dictator is better economically then a > democracy (at least initially).. simply because the leader need not worry > about public opinion.. but that certainly doesn't make it right... Yah, one example is Pakistan. Musharrif is essentially a dictator but the alternative is likely MUCH worse (good likelihood that Moslem extremists would gain a considerable level of power). Not good - it just produces another dangerous regime to worry about and cause problems for its neighbors. Until conditions for average Pakistani's improve to the point of squelching any desire to vote for religious extremists, I would have to say that the current nondemocratic situation is best overall (for the Pakistani's themselves, though they may not think so right now, and the world). How many citizens in Iran and Afghanistan are or were truly happy with the fundamentalist governments they have or had? I'd wager that the women are particularly less than pleased. Such situations invariably favor the poorly educated as such systems give them power that they wouldn't have. - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBSr1i/6R1B/Yh0RArdwAKCf8DZTtfWPxz60zbjZBJD5v/241ACfYSYf T4Q1JLb0fIPzMrWFER32ET8= =1Fmc -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] OT - This Damn List
There are 361 newsgroups that include the keyword 'politics' on my usenent server. It can't be beyond all the clowns currently clogging up my Mandrake Expert list to take their blasted arguments re the US/Irag conflict over to one of those groups. AT LEAST TAKE IT OFF THIS LIST. regards Daryl -- Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous. -- Confucius Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT - This Damn List
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:57:31 + Daryl Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > AT LEAST TAKE IT OFF THIS LIST. Agreed!!! Thankfully using claws I can set an ignore flag. Charles Pure drivel tends to drive ordinary drivel off the TV screen. (or computer monitor) -- Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel- 2.4.21pre3-3mdk -- msg65212/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] OT - This Damn List
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 01:13 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:57:31 + > > Daryl Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > AT LEAST TAKE IT OFF THIS LIST. > > Agreed!!! > > Thankfully using claws I can set an ignore flag. What is "claws"? - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBgy1i/6R1B/Yh0RAo8/AJ9sNoBqGucOgvas3L0agWG/mouwMwCfS80f G0TlxGw6L1grG5TpMkTdQh8= =muGg -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT - This Damn List
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 18:06, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Wednesday 29 January 2003 01:13 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:57:31 +
> >
> > Daryl Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > AT LEAST TAKE IT OFF THIS LIST.
> >
> > Agreed!!!
> >
> > Thankfully using claws I can set an ignore flag.
>
> What is "claws"?
>
his pet cat
--
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of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with a cat it
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Re: [expert] OT - This Damn List
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:06:42 -0500 Praedor Tempus Atrebates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What is "claws"? sylpheed-claws, a damn great email program. Charles A freelance is one who gets paid by the word -- per piece or perhaps. -- Robert Benchley -- Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel- 2.4.21pre3-3mdk -- msg65215/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] OT - This Damn List
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 29 January 2003 01:26 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:06:42 -0500 > > Praedor Tempus Atrebates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What is "claws"? > > sylpheed-claws, a damn great email program. Ah. I know of sylpheed and have used it, I didn't know realize there was a "claws" as part of its name...or is there a variant of just sylpheed? - -- Conservatives of all times are adventitious liars. - - Friedrich Nietzsche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OBtO1i/6R1B/Yh0RAmITAKCgyZtZxOqBP+ccBDSkJRJOhPEe/ACfcfiQ l8YR8iXdIPHINbTeJqwC+MQ= =pVDk -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1b2 observation/opinioin
On Tuesday 28 January 2003 03:07 pm, Mark Weaver wrote:
> >> anyone know when that one's due out?
> >
> > Ahem:
> > "When it's ready"...
> >
> >
> > I always hated getting that answer!
> >
> > Ric
>
> LOL...I had that coming.. :)
Not nearly as infuriating as -RSN- ("Real Soon Now"
--
/\
Dark< >Lord
\/
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Re: [expert] TIVO on ATI Radeon DDR64
Hey Dave, I got AVview from the GATOS project running... but it seems to be of little use since I don't have a TV turner on that card, and no TV coax cable connection... I only have a video in and a video out like the ones you have on more recent video game consoles. >You have to be able to see the video as it is played in order to do >any of the >other stuff, so try that and then get back to the mailing list with >your >results. Between now and then I'll try and recall the best way to set >up >video out using your Radeon. Sure, I'll try that, but which program should I use for that? >One of the questions that arose, and I asked around this evening, is >how much >disk space do you have available for this project? I have seen >streaming >video files and those suckers are HUGE. I would hazard a guess, not >knowing >the duration of the tape you're editing, that you could pretty easily >fill a >10 gig hard drive streaming a video to your hard disk, but I could be >wrong. I will need about 10 minutes of video... Available are 12GB on a RAID 0 and 10GB on a RAID 5. Hopefully it will be enough. gikoreno ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com target=_blank>http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:11 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Totally different situation. The American president and the congress > did not want to go to war against Germany because a lot of large US > companies were tied up with Germany (mostly with the IG Farben > conglomerate). The Jewish emigrants from Germany brought hard evidence > about the Nazis. Still the Congress voted not to start war. Only the > Jewish community forced the president eventually to decide to enter > the war. So much about history. Whoah...I'm a little confused here. Aren't you mixing up World Wars? I thought we dragged our heels (a little) in WW1 but we joined WW2 after a cowardly attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor - and we were already assisting the Allies in many ways before Pearl Harbor. You'll never make me believe that this country did not want to enter WW2 after Pearl Harbor!!! -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT - This Damn List
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:19:58 -0500 Praedor Tempus Atrebates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ah. I know of sylpheed and have used it, I didn't know realize there > was a "claws" as part of its name...or is there a variant of just > sylpheed? There are 2, sylpheed and sylpheed-claws. Claws is an enhanced, and if you use the CVS version, bleeding edge branch of sylpheed. Charles drug, n: A substance that, injected into a rat, produces a scientific paper. -- Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel- 2.4.21pre3-3mdk -- msg65220/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
New flick, coming to a theatre of war soon: The Bush Administration In Association With The Other Bush Administration Presents Gulf Wars__ E P I S O D E I I Clone Of The Attack See the full movie poster: http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/episodeII.jpg ..on a side note, this just in, Frodo has failed: http://www.goshko.ca/downloads/jokes/pictures/darklord.jpg -- ...Rob -- A closed mouth gathers no foot. = Robert Goshko Axis Computer Consulting Services, Inc President Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada http://www.axis-dev.ca/ Supporting the Revolution In Your World = Registered Linux User #260513GNU/Linux i686 2.4.20-2mdk-725ca 11:48am up 4:20, 5 users, load average: 1.28, 1.23, 1.20 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 12:14 pm, Praedor Tempus Atrebates wrote: > of US citizens with contrary views to those of the court-appointed US > president and his apologists - I count several besides myself in this list > thus far. Not all Americans respond with reflex support for what the > current person in the White House says. Just to be accurate, there were no less than -3- independent recounts of the votes after the election - Bush was the winner in all 3 recounts. Sohe was not "court appointed". Under the rules of our voting system - whoever takes the most votes in the Electoral college wins. Bush did this. Gore did have more popular votes - but he did not have more electoral votes. There are a lot of opinions (for and against) the electoral college - but it is the way the system is setup legally. It was setup before the election between Bush and Gore. Only Gore wanted to change the rules AFTER the election started. -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:39 -0500, Ronald J. Hall wrote: > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:11 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > > Totally different situation. The American president and the congress > > did not want to go to war against Germany because a lot of large US > > companies were tied up with Germany (mostly with the IG Farben > > conglomerate). The Jewish emigrants from Germany brought hard evidence > > about the Nazis. Still the Congress voted not to start war. Only the > > Jewish community forced the president eventually to decide to enter > > the war. So much about history. > > Whoah...I'm a little confused here. Aren't you mixing up World Wars? I thought > we dragged our heels (a little) in WW1 but we joined WW2 after a cowardly > attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor - and we were already assisting the > Allies in many ways before Pearl Harbor. You'll never make me believe that > this country did not want to enter WW2 after Pearl Harbor!!! In case you don't know it yet: Pearl Harbour was attacked by the Japaneze. They are the slightly smaller men with (mostly) slanted eyes and live on some islands across the Pacific Ocean to the West of you. Germans are the average caucasian types living in the middle of Europe, that is East of you across the Atlantic ocean. WWII was - concerning USA - a double war, one to the West with the Japanese and one in the east against Germany. I was talking about the war against the Germans which took place in Europe, the next continent you find if you start from the Eastcoast over the big water. Of course USA went to war against the Japanese right after their raid on Pearl Harbour. Any nation would have. Even those allegedly cowardice Germans. But concerning the so called European War the USA were really dragging their feet for a long time. There were too many US companies supporting Hitler and his industry (mainly rubber and chemicals). So the anti-war faction was heavily supported by those lobbyists of the industry. Read the documentations and the history books and learn how it really was. I assure you a very surprising story. wobo > -- > > /\ > Dark< >Lord > \/ > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 02:17 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > In case you don't know it yet: Pearl Harbour was attacked by the > Japaneze. They are the slightly smaller men with (mostly) slanted eyes > and live on some islands across the Pacific Ocean to the West of you. Thats exactly what I said in my first reply. Did you not read it? and... I'm perfectly aware of where Japan is... geographically and historically. > Germans are the average caucasian types living in the middle of > Europe, that is East of you across the Atlantic ocean. Thanks for reminding me of what I've known for quite some time (about 30 years). > WWII was - concerning USA - a double war, one to the West with the > Japanese and one in the east against Germany. Again, thanks for reminding me of something I learned 30 years ago. > I was talking about the war against the Germans which took place in > Europe, the next continent you find if you start from the Eastcoast > over the big water. You can stop the condescending attitude just any 'ole time partner. > Of course USA went to war against the Japanese right after their raid > on Pearl Harbour. Any nation would have. Even those allegedly > cowardice Germans. I'm glad we agree on something. (I'm not so sure about Germans=cowards though!) -- /\ Dark< >Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] sftp and chroot
I've been attempting to set up an enviroment that will let a user use sftp, but not allow them to 'walk' the rest of the system. I've tried _numerous_ different variations (created a chrooted user, using rbash or sftp-server as a shell, etc), and none of them seemed to work. I seem to be going in circles now, so if anyone has any insight, it would be appreciated. -- Live fast, die young, You're sucking up my bandwidth. J.P. Pasnak, CD CCNA http://www.warpedsystems.sk.ca Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 08:18, Dallam Wych wrote: > > > > I'm not religious, I wish I were. This madman and the options he has > > > > scare me to death. > > > > > wobo > > I guess that perhaps is the way America and the uk feel when they > hear your chancellor repetively refer "the german way". Talk about > scarey stuff, deja vu. No joke. > > First of all, this is not the right place to discuss this .. but we had many > > OT-discussions here, why not these... > Yep, might as well get your two euro's in as well. Heh. > > WTF ... You think war is the only way ? You think US-american have the > > right for being world-police ? > No, I don't think war is the only way. As for the US-American (sic) > having the right to be the world police, I don't care much for that > notion either. I am a firm believer that the US should withdraw from > NATO and let the europeans deal with their own issues. Might as well > withdraw from the United Nations as well, as it most certainly as > become as weak as the United League ever was. I agree with your statement about the weakness and neutered nature of the UN. Too many people have died because of their "inaction", which to the antilogic of the left seems to be the heroic thing to do these days. For the same reason however, I feel strongly that many people would die needlessly by the hands of dictators and terrorist regimes if the US did retract, similar to the deaths of those that have occurred already under the stewardship of the UN in the region around and in Iraq by virtue of the imaginary weapons of mass destruction that the liberals say don't exist. In a nutshell, I think the withdrawal of the US from the international scene would involve the deaths of entire populations of people, since the UN and the EU are going to do the heroic thing and stand by doing nothing, like they have for the last 12 years in response to the Iraqi UN violations, for example. > > > Germany's histories regarding innocent life are not exactly > > > something to brag about; however I'm not posting rants regarding Hitler > > > and the Holocaust and 6 million Jews that were murdered. Oh yeah, and > > > the fact that the US was one of the primary forces that put a stop to > > > it. Madmen, eh? yeah, I can certainly talk about some madmen; like the > > > ones that murder Jews. However I'm starting to understand why the > > > Mandrake lists should minimize political talk; because I am extremely > > > pissed right now. I suggest that this conversation go elsewhere; like > > > maybe to my personal inbox, where I will be more than glad to finish > > > this dance. > Well, I understand you are mad..as you should be. Perhaps you wish > you had put things a bit more eloquently :) Maybe if it was an eloquent thread, perhaps. But the start of this thread is one of the most moronic I've ever seen, birthed by me-too liberal and socialist attitudes, bathed in emotion, and accompanied by a total lack of regard for factual or historical information. They are up there in Oz with the tin man and the flying monkeys looking for a brain. Maybe they'll bump into Barbara Streisand while she quotes Shakespeare or party on with another bogus CNN broadcast while Sean Penn or Susan Sarandon serves the drinks. In the meantime I don't mind trading insult for insult. By the same token I'm also willing to trade fact for fact, though that opportunity has been vanishingly small, as it always is when dealing with the left. > > How much have you understood what war means ? How much are you informed what > > people here in germany think ? How much are you interested to understand > > whats going on in minds here ? I would say THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE ! > I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor > just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? > Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. > > -- > Dallam Wych [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 60B9 5A73 E6B8 F087 66A4 Registered User #213656 > 942D F550 F70D C2FE 8EFB http://counter.li.org LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow?
Wolfgang Bornath wrote: On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:18 +, Dallam Wych wrote: I guess that perhaps is the way America and the uk feel when they hear your chancellor repetively refer "the german way". Talk about scarey stuff, deja vu. When did Mr. Schroeder say something like "the German way"? And when did he say something that makes you look back to the Nazi era? It would be a déjà-vu if he'd side up with Mr. Bush. The we'd really be concerned. BTW: What doo you think is the German way of today? From your statement I doubt that you have any clue. No, I don't think war is the only way. As for the US-American (sic) having the right to be the world police, I don't care much for that notion either. I am a firm believer that the US should withdraw from NATO and let the europeans deal with their own issues. Might as well withdraw from the United Nations as well, as it most certainly as become as weak as the United League ever was. So that USA would not have to pay their debts to the UN? A dept which is quite as large as some 3rd world country's debt with the BIG 7. So USA leaves NATO, so what? I think USA would suffer more than Europe from that. Meanwhile most NATO tasks are fulfilled by European soldiers because USA has already drawn nost of their military our of the current NATO involvements. And guess who is the country with the highest financial support of NATO? Read it on the NATO sites. I will pass on this, except to ask you this. Wasn't you chancellor just returned to power based on the anti-americanism in germany? Pretty much sums up the mind set of the voters in that election. Not on the Anti-Americanism but on the Anti-War issue. That is a big difference! Although I must confess that since Mr. Bush lives in the White House we may have developped some resentments. Since WWII Germany has a very strong feeling against any military involvement. As we have a more democratic way of dealing with our chancellor (i.e. he has far less political power than your president) he has to bend to the peoples will. Last polls in USA show that nearly half of the American people don't want war against Iraq in any case. In Germany our chancellor wouldn't get away with doing something like that without a large majority on his side. And he'd never get that majority. wobo wobo, I sincerely wish that it was that way here. sadly, it would appear that america's people, for better or worse, are along for the ride. -- Mark --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 & 9.0 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
