[newbie] Re: WARNING Destructive Software on multiboots, Jetway
Hello folks, You know, it *IS* fascinating to read the comments of those few tunnel-visioned people on this list who continually make it difficult for people outside of their tiny worlds. I would love to take the candy/money off the baby - but my mother won't let me do those sort of things any more :-) For those many others on this list who are not egobound to the degree that the anal pressure creates blindness, please ignore the Flame-babies and READ my post : As always, I supply the evidence. I even gave the Site address and the Forum where it is fully admitted by the Company and some of the victims - one of whom contacted me and said that he, as a professional psychologist was questioning his own grip on reality after the experience ... which was only matched by ferocity of rudeness he experienced when attempting to learn about Linux . I was able to assure him as a professional peer - my own background is thirty years of clinical and industrial psychology - that what he experienced was normal Internet behaviour. Sad, but true. The inescapable idiot percentage have great advantage out in the Cyberbog and all one can do is remember that they are a tiny, tiny percentage. The bulk of the good people out there are simply too afraid of them to say much. It is both my experience and opinion that the Open Source world is still dominated by anti-social people with zero social skills and it shows in their rage. A simple example would be to go and say that you don't believe in the rights of the Cyber-Nazis currently dominating the so-called anti-spam movement, to tell YOU what you may or may not LEGALLY receive, in one of the lists out there. Their intention is to somehow gain a little power. Simple. That is the motivation of all fanatics - to gain that power and then use it to inflict the pain on others that they feel. Well, there is my ever-increasing value $A 2 cents worth. Real people, ignore the Flamebabies -go investigate FOR YOURSELF. It will do two things: show you what sort of anti-social deviants ( meaning not like most) are out here in the Cyberbog and help you see the dangers. If you have a Jetway Board especially, or have a similar program investigate! See the other posted note about Nortons ( Long avoided by the real pros in the Doze world) Here is the address again. Go read the forums there! http://www.gotogs.com Cheers! John Rigby NB: Who had no trouble installing other versions of Linux - just feels that they are all still immature for real use in my own *commercial* world activities. BUT I can see it all coming together. Lycoris and Lindows are on the track that I have been espousing in Linux for the last 100 years. K.I.S.S. If Mandrake took my advice of years ago and split into two factions, fanatic and user, Mandrake would/could own the arena. All it takes is a simple Golden Rule: No Black Screen! The Command prompt is no place for the other 99.9993% actual Users in the real world. With Best Wishes To All Those Struggling To Make A Difference, --- At 10:32 PM 20/06/02, you wrote: On Thursday 20 June 2002 11:09 am, you wrote: Michael Adams wrote: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:59, robin wrote: Grand Slammer wrote: Hello folks, Although having given up on M*+ for now, I had left a multiboot to a friendly version of Lux (Lycoris - it works, but) installed on my system. I had even changed Motherboards to try and get M8 to work and installed a Jetway - originally suggested by Civileme I think. ( Whose personal email address keeps bouncing - maybe I'm on his non-no list now) The destructive program (Trojan really!) comes bundled with Jetway Moboards and the product apparently self-installs with the Jetway and is called Crush Recovery would you believe - I thought it was a simple Chinglish blunder at the time(!) and although could not figure out how to remove an option it installed on the boot-up screen to install it, *I never activated it*. THEN two days ago, it suddenly announced that I was out of disk space ( wrong -25 gigs avail) and offered the following options: Save Restore or I think, delete. I took the safe road. Saving is always a good idea... It then deleted *irretrievably*, via trashing the MBR, everything on my system. My condolences. As I posted some time ago, Norton Utilities did a similar thing to my HD, though at least it kept the Windows partiton it had optimised (lucky, since I too use Windows as a backup, though not for anything crucial). Windows itself is too feeble to do much to your system other than write over the MBR if you reinstall (and you can always get back into Linux with a bootdisk or CD-ROM) but some third-party software is extremely dangerous. BTW, John, your mail somehow got filtered into my spam folder, which is odd, because it only does that to some domains I've received spam from
[newbie] Of interest to all linuxophiles
Ha folks, Little item in Zdnet downunder. Cheers! John 6. IBM Australia migrating to Linux IBM's 10,000 Australian staff are in the process of being moved over to Linux for file and print serving, as part of a cost-efficiency drive that has been in the pipeline since last year. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?176710 --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] *Very* Tech Data On the Open Concept.
Hi folks, Found this material while researching the spam problem and it is amazing data gathering on the reality of the Community-based Software Development theme. Civileme and Sridhar should like it, if not already into it! :-) http://www.orbiten.org/summary.html Cheers, John --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical?
Hi Sridhar, Yes O/b Sound SiS 630. Or was... You should see my speakers! :-) They are a little years old pair of throwaway types that just happen to fit neatly in my desk cubby! Power they ain't got... a bit like me. :-) Cheers, John - Original Message - From: Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical? That's a hardware 'feature' (or rather, the lack of a feature). Are you using sound that is integrated onto your motherboard? Most of these setups do not include a built-in amplifier, unlike many standalone sound cards. Another possibility is that your speakers are simply too power-hungry for the built-in amplifier to satisfy. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical?
Hello Ed, Thanks for the response, but afraid I can't follow it. - Original Message - From: ed tharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical? I have now even bought a Jetway moboard as I was told it was lux friendly. SIS 630T chipset It has O/b video AGP4x shared mem amount immaterial as I've seen so far. WRONG... THIS is your problem, you need to specify the ram being used video as subtracted from the overall ram,ie linux mem=118 (this being a machine w/128 ram chip, and 8 meg for video ram and a little extra to be safe. Specified where? I don't recall it coming up in the install proc. The system at last fallover had 384 Megs RAM. What I meant by immaterial was that any change in the allocated Video RAM under Doze made no difference in anything noticeable, so I left it at the default 8. Cheers, John --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re: Michaels Minutes (WAY OT)
Ha folks, Well, the awful truth is that if it simply plugs in and works.. Years ago my own Technicians used to go into major installations and avoid the what's the password routine by looking on the side of the monitor or the deskpad, first. Amazing how many times it was there. Shane is correct even in jest - I STILL haven't had the chance to even see if I could install the RPM - never had a working User System. AND unless it does simply Pn'P, it is a dud. Constantly read of semi-Geeks (at least) saying how a simple install/upgrade broke their previously working system, on this very list. Remember, this is a marketing exercise, not a hobby one for Michael. Although I seriously doubt from what I've seen so far that he really gets it, either) Cheers, John - Original Message - From: shane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Re: Michaels Minutes (WAY OT) On Thursday 04 April 2002 03:45 pm, Sridhar Dhanapalan opened a hailing frequency and transmitted: Does anybody seriously think this will be a good thing for Linux and free software? I most certainly don't. Why pay US$99 when you can get CodeWeavers CrossOver Office for $54.95, which you can install on mostly because the average person won't be able to install an RPM of codeweavers. just ask john. ;-) root password. All we need are a few easily-written exploit scripts for this poor excuse of an OS and open source as a whole (not just Lindows) will be given a bad name. GNU/Linux virii will become a widespread reality (on Lindows, that is), fueling opposition to open source. --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical?
Hi Civileme, Thanks for the info. However, you didn't answer some of the points such as re getting FROM text to GUI via the command line. Is there a way? Couple of others I've prefaced with if you wouldn't mind. 2. As I paid for the presentation of 1000's of programs with the retail Powerpak, is there a chance that I could use say a 2 disk minimalist set of 8.1 ( or 2) to get a start and then install the programs I want from the 8.0 Set? Would this be safe? 3. What is the vote nowadays - my figures show 50/50 for 8.1 and 8.2 re user install/working satisfaction. *** Re above question - and should I go for 8.1? 4. If Mandrake can't for some reason detect a graphics card, should it not say so? Or will it simply default to a Terminal/text install? As this has happened before, I would like to know this info. I have a Jetway 630TCF with the SiS 630 chipset. Install comes up Graphic without any effort on my part since the video supports Framebuffer. With the 530 and 8.0 there are some problems on some implementations usually solved by setting options in You said problems with 530. Did you mean 530 or slip from 630? It makes no sense for the install to come up text without any graphics. But if the install does, then your CDs are seriously damaged (at least one run of the pressed CDs had trouble with a RAMDisk). It might try to come up text if you have less than 64M RAM since the 630 shares 8M of main memory with video memory which makes a 32M setup really offer only 24M to the system. In that case you would be fortunate to install at all. * Well, I had 512 on the last system and 384 on this one, so RAm wasn't a problem. There may be a disk problem - although there was no failure evident - everything else went according to schedule except it won't run as GUI. Thanks, John --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] very scary stuff. Your rights ARE vanishing - being assasinated...
Hello folks, This is not off-topic! This is a probable reason that we are all having more and more email problems. One of my fears about the development of the fabulous tool we call the Internet is the prediction made by Kilneth nearly a decade ago: Without positive loop feedback it can rapidly become a Cyberbog. It is going that way... please read this a.s.a.p. http://www.talkbiz.com/assassin.html Everything needs a positive feedback loop, from teaching children good behaviour, to the Sydney Opera House - a project which had no control by feedback. It was projected to cost $1-1.5 Million Dollars. Now we all know that such things will over-run. but it finished up costing the community $105 MILLION a HUNDRED times as much! Because there was no feedback control - it had no limits. It was funded by a Lottery! Thus, there was no upper limit on what could be spent. It was insane - worse, it finished up being project-managed by a committee and it ended up useless as a true Opera House. Cheers? John --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical?
Hi Bob, Thanks. No! I assumed there *was* a way - but no amount of playing with Help possibilities came up with *that* destruction! Will go try on the other machine when I get a second. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: Bob Read [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 5:32 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical? PMFJI late, but have you tried typing startx from the command line? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 2/04/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] FIDO - The grandaddy of the Movement.......
Hi folks, A number of people expressed interest in the early days of Pre-net when FIDO happened. A wonderful example of what people can do together. Here is a good point to start if you are interested. Of course, FIDO is rather horse-n-buggy today, but it was and is a miracle for the poor. It generated a camaraderie like that of the old Ham Radio Network and in fact attracted many people from it. It is a great story. http://www.ggw.org/freenet/k/K12Net/gateway.html Cheers, John --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 22/03/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Not why only graphical - Why no graphical?
Ha there folks, Well, a new machine and same result. I purchased the full bottle M8.0 and need to get SOME value back :-) Many people complained of it not being very successful and it failed for me several times on 3 machines. It would seem to install ok to a degree - but only in text mode, despite my trying to ensure it would be graphic. I have now even bought a Jetway moboard as I was told it was lux friendly. SIS 630T chipset It has O/b video AGP4x shared mem amount immaterial as I've seen so far. O/b sound AC'97 P3 667 Chip No graphics install by M8.0 No sound BTW: I've never been able to get sound working on any prior system. Advice requested please: 1. In the manuals I can find no reference to going GUI from dreaded Terminal mode. Can one? I tried F1 and select other options at bootup but it will not accept any change from L3 to L5 2. As I paid for the presentation of 1000's of programs with the retail Powerpak, is there a chance that I could use say a 2 disk minimalist set of 8.1 ( or 2) to get a start and then install the programs I want from the 8.0 Set? Note: In Australia north of Brisbane we not only put our clocks back, but Telecom can't see why I REALLY need to be on the Internet. I average a D/l speed of 1.8 overall ( I quit when it often gets to 1.0 or less) and lose about one in two of any large (10Megs+) downloads. I've officially been told voice capability is good enough and they aren't obliged to demonstrate more than 9600 Bd capability unless I want to spend a few hundred per week on ADSL or... so using the disks, not to mention the $140 spent on them seems a good idea. 3. What is the vote nowadays - my figures show 50/50 for 8.1 and 8.2 re user install/working satisfaction. 4. If Mandrake can't for some reason detect a graphics card, should it not say so? Or will it simply default to a Terminal/text install? Thanks and Cheers, John --- _ All *MY* communications are certified virus-free. Why not yours? Ask here for full info - *and* get it free. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 22/03/02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] CrossoverWine for Office NOW; A Good Thing
Hi Poogle and folks, A substantial group of interested parties ( according to me it is a cabal - a pricefixing, anti-competitive group and thus illegal if Linux people did it) are going to arrange a final solution for *nix/nux. As I have kept saying and being attacked for, on this and other Sites: MARKETING IS KING. PROPAGANDA IN THE HANDS OF AN EXPERT CAN AND WILL KILL ANYTHING - PEOPLE, IDEAS, COMPETITION. I give you some examples: Microsoft. NAZI Germany Apple Computer The only defence against it is either a better propaganda programme or strangely, word-of-mouth. The actual product is virtually immaterial. The only thing that will count is the *self-interest factor* in the pitch. The Linux community/supporters have only one chance, one chance. Put the word out about the Evil Empire and how it is after your money to your *personal* contacts. YOU. Forget entirely the social implications - that doesn't work - only in market surveys. Focus on conversion - a bit at a time. Like clever evangelist Religious canvassers, QUIETLY non- combatively. We could actually write a GREAT campaign of our own - we sure have the ammunition! We don't have the moolah either. AND UNFORTUNATELY we still don't have a simple, workable street solution. So, of course it is a GREAT thing that Crossover is there! It opens a giant market that can easily be weaned away from the other side. Now if only *I* could get Linux to *usefully* load on any of my systems.. There *IS* a gigantic and very professional project under way to bury *nix/nux ( that's even the insider name for it, very clever, get it?? Punchy, memorable, appealing.) I professionally think, sadly, that it will probably work very well and nix/nux will be permanently relegated to the position of Apple ( 5%-10% of the market) if it ever gets that far. The only thing that could even wreck that percentage entirely is the smartass kids showing off their code-sucking superiority as is typical in the Linux world. This fixation with doing everything the macho way - the hard way in Terminal mode ( very apt name ). Like people ranting about real men use Notepad to write code in ( wimmin of course, don't count). :-) You want to help the Cause? 1. Write to Newsgroups OUTSIDE of Linux. ( You would be surprised what is happening out in the world) SUBTLY remind everyone via your signature lines: *I'm* safe from the virus plague - I use Linux. Q: How come 9 out of 10 Real Big Servers in the world are Unix/Linux based? A: They don't fall down a lot. And are a LOT cheaper to run.. For the fanatics: Certified 100% Microsoft product free! No viruses! Shane has a million of 'em. 2. Let everyone YOU know that you found it such a good thing to **save so much money HONESTLY** *and* not to be spied on any more, that you are happy to help any of your friends escape the financial trap. I have decided that the only way I see it working at all is the buddy system for starters. THEN User Support Groups. I was unable to find another person in all my contacts who on their own decided to try Linux. I am the only one. Each was prompted by a friend/contact. Not a single one by any form of advertising. The process has to be disciplined: 1. Convert the existing user base. Codeweaver now looks a great thing! No, it won't hurt KDE developers or others, competition is a good thing and look around - even better won't win. Just be good as and cheaper/EASIER. EASIER is the key. Not more functions. Easier. 2. Get the NEW starters. But don't kid ourselves - there is nothing as good as MS Office 97 yet. Same as people STILL use Outlook Express. It *is* easier to use! But if they have never seen it, and you help them set up things like filters and family group, in other words a useful basic install John Dreaming in paradise? What would there be to dream about in Paradise? A challenge. Kilneth - Original Message - From: poogle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 7:56 AM Subject: [newbie] CrossoverWine for Office Probably start another lengthy thread here but I see that Codeweavers now have a crossover that allows MS Office (including Outlook partly) to run under Linux. I can't decide whether this is a good thing or not, on the one hand it blows away a lot of the arguments against migrating an office environment to Linux but on the other hand it could harm the excellent work done by the developers of KOffice, Gnumeric, Abiword and similar projects. Personally I would find it hard to put an Office CD into the tray and install it into Mandrake, just doesn't seem right somehow -- Poogle. Derby,England Linux MDK 8.2 with Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Unisys, Microsoft to launch anti-Unix ads
Hi Tim, But since when have facts got in the way of a good campaign? Money wins! Who will hear Sun's response?? 2 Quotes from Kinneth's private 3rd Reich Files: It is utterly immaterial as to what you say, it is only important to say it loudly, aggressively and often, often The greater the lie the easier it is to propagate. It is our greatest strength. I give you Apple's famous ads starting with the Alligators and not topped until the light switch. Every time I see an Apple Ad even today, I feel like rushing out to buy one and end all my troubles! When running a large User Group in my early days - new people used go into rages when they realised that the expensive mono-screened Apple they bought couldn't even run most programs - especially the great free ones! THEN there were the others: people who HAD to justify their expensive mistake. The best Apple sales people of all... - Original Message - From: Tim Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Unisys, Microsoft to launch anti-Unix ads What I like is SUN's response: Sun still does not see Microsoft as a real threat in the datacenter market where reliability, availability, serviceability and security are key, the company said. As for Unix being 'inflexible,' 'expensive,' and 'complex,' we feel those are terms much better suited to the closed and proprietary world of Windows. I think the French term is Touché. tdh Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] NOW: GNU GLUE: DEFINITELY OFF-TOPIC! :-)
Hi Sridhar, Ever heard of an Atari? Fabulous engineering - rotten marketing. Actually, it was more than that. The company's management made some _really_ stupid decisions. The best thing Atari's marketing dept ever did was to rename the arcade game Puck Man to Pac Man before it was released. They were afraid that vandals would scratch out part of the P in Puck to make it look like something else :) *** I did hear that one - but it was actually a TP problem from their legal dept. :-) Would you believe the name Puck is heavily registered around the world? But it was a great system - and it died for lack of marketing nous, not even clout - just nous. Ever wonder why countries like Japan and South Korea were able to grow so fast ** In a word, no. They were essentially manufactured by the West, the USA in particular. I did spend a considerable time going in and out of the country many years ago. Very simple people the Japanese. It was and is a feudal system. The economic difficulties were simply the end of the game plan. The tide now goes out. 11 years ago Kilneth corrected a paper of mine in which I predicted the breakpoint of the Japanese economy to be tied to a 10,000 range break and in one day convinced me it would be no lower than 15k. before it was irrecoverable. Clue? Value of downtown Tokyo Real Estate I'm sorry, but that is an incredibly simplistic view. I have written a few academic papers on the topic, and I can tell you that it is far more complex than that. Note that I did say Among other things when giving my reason. US relations were very important, but they were not the sole reason. I would be interested in anything novel you have written on the subject if it is available. Most of my information came from the horses mouth as a rule. Kilneth and I both worked for the Owners of The World in different ways at different times. Thus, we had friends in high places as good servants. :-) Ever heard of the Mountain Of Gold japanese hypothesis? Unless one understands that, you can never understand how easy it is to fool the Japanese. No wonder they get so mad! It has been done to the dog people for centuries. Australians know how it feels. BTW: Not a single expert in Academe even had a clue what was to, or what happened to Nippon. Not a whisper. But in the real world it was common knowledge - especially to the erudite few in Japan. A very good friend of mine - a financial leader in Japan, outlined the pattern step-by-step to me shortly before he died, while I was visiting him and I was only amazed that he didn't understand it long beforehand. But I was born a cynic and don't ever remember believing in Santa Claus... Perhaps, but you are still yet to prove that marketing is the panacea you claim it is. *** Oh it is certainly no panacea - it is WHY we are in the state we are in - for the good and the bad aspects. It is simply vital. I simply know how it works - like understanding Catholicism or Islam. It is simply there and a fact of life to be dealt with/capitalised upon. As I keep saying to people Don't shoot the messenger! :-) If your product was available in infinite quantities for free, why would anyone pay $900 for it? That's what free software is like. A distro/developer adds a certain feature. The next second everyone has it, because the source code is open. Why bother getting Ximian GNOME for Mandrake when Mandrakesoft have already taken the best bits of Ximian code and included it in their core distro? * A good example of the actual possibilities seems to be in the approach of the Codeweavers people. I liked the CEO's presentation. I just don't like their chances out there LINUX can have its community but it NEEDS a market. The Free Software Foundation was founded in 1984. Since then, free software volunteers have writen a UNIX-like OS from scratch, without any major funding or help from corporations. This is still mostly the case today. It doesn't NEED a market; it has proven itself to be very capable of surviving on its own. ** Not quite true - all of the attempts have been funded to some degree - wastefully -but funded. As for surviving.. do you know there is a very active network of die-hard Atari people out there, still??? Apple is surviving... MS is making the market. (BTW I got warned off for writing a thing called the real X plan last year based on how X actually makes its money out of thin air.. and that was for a private circulation magazine! The eyes are everywhere...) :-) Those masochists who download all the freebies and do nothing to contribute are neither Geeks ( who are out there designing things like Gnome and KDE etc) nor a market. They are a complete DRAIN on the real system. Who cares if they go to another dying distro? This may be true of users of non-free OSs (e.g. BeOS), but there are plenty of ways for one
Re: [newbie] NOW: GNU GLUE: DEFINITELY OFF-TOPIC! :-) WOOPS!
Hello folks, Sorry about that! This message was intended to be a private post. But you were warned! :-) As there are only a very few people here interested in discussing the future realistic prospects and possibilities of Mandrake on a friendly and rational discourse level it really is better to continue such exchanges elsewhere. Any serious replies are welcome to me privately still, but there are some wonderful avenues on Mandrake.ORG for serious discussions and perhaps offering helpful things. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: john rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:51 PM Subject: [newbie] NOW: GNU GLUE: DEFINITELY OFF-TOPIC! :-) Hi Sridhar, Ever heard of an Atari? Fabulous engineering - rotten marketing. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] COM: Egg on the face - no effect?
Hi folks, This is well worth reading! Opera boss sorts out Big Bill on standards compliancy.. But real entrepreneurs don't blush - no matter what! http://www.open-mag.com/70157165174.htm Cheers, John Sitting in the sunshine and contemplating a choice! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
COMMUNITY: Re: [newbie] Support? - a Solution ?
Hi Damian, A reasonable comment: BUT if the people do not speak up - out of fear of reprisal - how is change ever going to happen? The Newbie list *IS* the only place to have reasonable discourse on the product. It is NOT supposed to be a Geekfest. Maybe a good solution would be to have an internal code on Replies: GEEK USER COMMUNITY ( for community discussion) Then fanatics could avoid any challenge to their tiny world, Geeks could talk unintelligbly away from the rest of us real Newbies :-) , Users could get simple help on getting it to go usably and those good souls who like to help, as distinct from those here to display their arrogance/cleverness/oneupmanship, could dip into the anguish of the User area and help real beginners who have never cooked anything except lunch. It could work you know, with a bit of support. The Geeks have no idea how off-putting and terrifying the complex matters typical on this list are! Users cannot even understand the questions, much less the answers and for many it is the very first exposure outside the MS/Apple GUI world. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: Damian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 4:59 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Support? El sáb, 23-03-2002 a las 10:02, john rigby escribió: Hello Sal, WOOPS!! NOW you'll get it! Rule #1 on this list has become : THOUGH SHALT NOT SPAKE A SINGLE WORLD OF CRITICISM AGAINST THE ONE TRUE THING --note: what i'm going to say here may apply to you or not, i'm just going to say what i think about some very recent 'angry' posts made by several ppl. well.. this is a newbie list, it's supposed to be a place where you ask questions, get answers, read questions, and give answers. criticism is out of order here, if you don't like something about Limux-Mandrake, we do not need to hear it, and it's probably not really up to us to change it. if you want to tell someone how bad you feel about this distro, it's not the users you have to bitch at. you could send a letter to mandrakesoft or whatever. you won't get flamed by them. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] REAL Newbies: looka here! AND Helpers
Hi folks, At Sridhars prompting - I went back to looking around - don't know WHY I never found this Site before - perhaps as I always searched mandrake.COM. http://www.mandrakeuser.org/index.php DOCS!! General discussion etc. http://www.mandrakeuser.org/download.php Tons of stuff to help you that has already been asked and answered many times in a very useable form for beginners. For you REAL Helpers - it would be good to remind new, new Users about this avenue. Would save you lots of repeats. (Searching archives is always daunting, even for experienced Users - they are never library organised by their very nature.) Cheers, John For Microsoft to succeed, it is only necessary for the rest of us to merely remain silent modified from whatisname. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sheesh already--
Hello Civilme folks, You are a good supporter of the system, Civilme, and a good techo, you are also an atrocious psychologist/philosopher - a true Geek! :-) BTW: Do you know what this symbol means? :-) I keep forgetting many people don't, especially Geeks for some reason Now, if you were to re-read your post to me carefully and calmly, you would find that it precisely supports my contention! E.G. The partial-joke quote from Voltaire: He wasn't the first to use it - it is thousands of years old - Indian in origin, just like the Desiderata. THIS was and is, the substance of my contention. Freedom of Speech. Only those without substance cannot, will not listen to reason ... in case they become convinced and thus valueless because they were wrong. Another old quote from the Ku a'la Yes, the one thing Mr Gates DOES understand is marketing, as does Mr Jobs. It should be mandatory for all Geeks to read a couple of books before espousing the proven unworkable tenets of Communism/Socialism. (Anarchy has a better chance.) I am happy from my own area of experience to suggest some eye-opening fascinating stuff, if anyone is interested. My contribution toward a bridge of understanding between two alien-to-each-other cultures. But please, no more rhetoric. Evidence. Like I produce. A case to put forward and answer. Reason, not gratuitous insults to intelligent discourse. By the way, in international activity, only the Laws of France are considered as unjust as most 3rd World States in my humble opinion and in my professional peer group majority. BTW: The wonder of it all is that with today's technology, we can, individually, elect not to associate with anyone specifically for whatever reason. I do. A year or so ago, I simply stopped receiving information from a couple of people on this very list. Not just because I disagreed with their ideas, but because I could see that they were unreasonable people - fanatics as we call them. But I still have some fascinating correspondence with a man who stoutly maintains that the Holocaust never happened. He is also a devout Christian/Catholic. He would like to see Barbara Thering crucified and burnt.. She is an heretic, admittedly... It is a beautiful morning here in paradise, the birds are singing, the display of the rainbow Lorrikeets outside my study is distracting I think I'll go for a walk in the morning sunshine. Bless you all. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NEWBIE 1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 5:53 AM Subject: [newbie] Sheesh already-- OK, I fail geek 101--my filter didn't work. Why oh why do I always take the bait? Yes, John, make your own group off the list where you can all agree with each other. If your ideas do not find immeduiate acceptance here and people do disagree with you or even dispute your possession of the facts, it would be safe for you to make your own group, where you can filter anyone who decides to dispute your rhetoric. Of course you can do that here as well, but then you cannot refute their replies because you can't see them. BTW, more correctly, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. (Tr from French) -- Voltaire And whence does Mandrakesoft originate... That same hotbed of radical liberty-seekers, France. That might be a clue why you will not be removed from this list. Now if list members trash you, you probably didn't substantiate your claims to their satisfaction. Don't ask us to interfere with their freedom, either. You will receive the same answer those who thought you should not be on this list were given. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Living in the real world - Win4Lin4 NO INTEREST TO GEEK FOLKS
Hi Sridhar, First, thanks for all the help I've seen you offer to newbie and geek alike here, me included. I am very happy to discuss the bits of the GNU World that I can, seeing as my contributions technically are zilch! My only skill is really in seeing solutions for sick corporations - and sometimes people who are really ill. MOST people like to contribute in some way, there are really very few - and usually very young and frustrated - who don't. As Joy C says, Even Cybervandals (scriptkiddies) usually burn into people by 30. I am very happy to help anyone where I can and discussing practical commerce-oriented matters is where I do have the experience to share is how to do it. Answers to your post : ** - Original Message - From: Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Living in the real world - Win4Lin4 NO INTEREST TO GEEK FOLKS Wordperfect was one of the first things I got going myself after I started using GNU/Linux. I had next to no GNU/Linux experience at the time, but I found the installation to be a breeze. It is a free (as in beer) download. *** There was a post here about it a week ago - I couldn't even understand the simple destructions needed. :-) I did try and install a freebie copy way back when but it had no sense to it for a non-geek. The expert at the Oz Computer magazine confessed he couldn't either at the time. FrontPage98 is a joke. It is malware like this that is destroying the open Internet. I agree it could be lots better, but an awful lot of pros use it for QANTAS ( No, not the Airline, Quick And Not Too Arty Sites). I know of nothing faster and easier anywhere for non-geeks. So long as you don't use FP Extensions and keep off IIS Sites... there aren't a lot of tricks to using it. :-) 2. If you are a serious business user, you NEED to be moving toward voice recognition as you know. No, I don't know. Why would a business need voice recognition? I once tried using Viavoice for a whole year -- my productivity decreased despite my best efforts at speaking clearly (something which I've been told I'm good at) and training the software. These packages often advertise 90%-95% accuracy. This sounds great, until you realise that this means that every 10-20 words will be incorrectly interpreted. John Dvorak recently wrote an interesting article on the topic: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-826862.html. A point at a time: 1. Because real men never did type and modern liberated females won't anymore. :-) Like Dvorak, you might have vocal range problem, much less an accent one. I couldn't imagine a Good Ol' Boy ever getting to use it, or an excitable Southern Indian. :-) More to the point, at around 40 w.p.m. with 90% accuracy as a typist, VR will break even under most conditions. Over that it drops rapidly. HOWEVER , in the publishing world, in technical material we used to cost on 19 w.p.m. with girls whose rating was 65 w.p.m. in Pittmans test. In the real world ( that phrase again!) it was extremely rare to find an executive that could properly dictate to a stenographer. They were status symbols for the most part. As a professional dictator (ha!) I must say I do know few people as experienced, trained and natural as me at it, for over 30 years. I am approximately 120% more effective/productive using VR. BUT as a typist I am only quite fast - about twice the rate of finished work as an average self-typing person creatively trying to do the two things at once. But poor old Dvorak - a most unhappy puppy alla time - lives in the wannabee world of pontificating pundits. He has no idea of the incredible science and wonder that has got VR this far! But, it isn't for everyone. Like playing with command lines thrashing around with broken software and loving it! :-) What is your definition of incredibly poor presentation? Open source developers usually prefer to focus on code quality rather than polish. MS bangs-and-whistles. * I used to teach methods engineering ( IT speak Systems Analysis) and the very first thing I would stress was: forget the production, write the manual. Do that first and you will always do well. Yes, it is boring - and usually embarrassing, too. But I also meant overall. The physical display of onscreen fonts was not acceptable to a serious user. Imagine trying to write for 5 hours using it. StarOffice and KDE (to use your examples) are very usable and stable. They _do_ have extensive help structures, so either you didn't install them or you just didn't look properly. * No they just weren't there - it was a problem not resolved at the time on this list - it was a known bug as I recall. Nothing is perfect. Go to a Windows list and I'll guarantee you that you'll see many users with problems. On this list, most problems are quite minor, and many messages are simple enquiries. Oh, I agree 100%
Re: [newbie] Support?
Hello Sal, WOOPS!! NOW you'll get it! Rule #1 on this list has become : THOUGH SHALT NOT SPAKE A SINGLE WORLD OF CRITICISM AGAINST THE ONE TRUE THING It is very sad but you *will* be trashed/flamed by the goon squad no matter what you say or do from here on in. I have received a number of notes from people asking me not to reply ro them on the Board for fear of the goons. It is very, very sad. This WAS a great support Site and still has many fine people here, but they are being overwhelmed by the dog squad. But don't let them beat you down - these are the losers in life - for it is only the losers who are ever viscious. Stick in! You will get help if you ask for it. BUT You are not allowed to criticise. There are many people having your experience with the Software trashing prior installs and a couple of us with the goon squad. Cheers! John Rigby I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it Whatsisname. - Original Message - From: Sal Cerda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 6:55 AM Subject: [newbie] Support? Recently I asked for some help after installing 8.2. Thereply: alans: 15:03 01:50 : Reply received Since you've reinstalled the development packages then your problem is no longer an OS installation problem but one of the technique of using the compiler tools. This problem is not included in the list of free provided support. As a reminder, support is dedicated to operating system installation only, covering the topics shown below: ... I suggest that you to ask your questions on one of the many freely available resources MandrakeSoft provides to its users. was not helpful. My GCC, make and other tools worked fine before I installed 8.2. I didn't break it, the install did as near as I can tell. My 'technique' is the same as it was before. Even though I'm a newbie to Linux, it's not hard to untar, make config and install a package. I have not been able to install ANY package since installing 8.2. Something changed. I was evaluating Mandrake Linux as a possible alternative to desktops in the corporate world. If the support I got for this boxed copy of your distribution is representative of the value that can be expected, then perhaps Mandrake Linux is not ready for prime time, however much I wanted it to be. Sal Cerda __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] NO INTEREST TO GEEK FOLKS - no disrespect intended - just matters of no interest to you
Hi James folks, Thamks for answering - but please don't fall into the trap of the fanatics. That title I see now could have been misunderstood from the mindset common here. But, it was simply to let the Business non-geeks know, quietly, my summary ( and many others to date) without the E-Rage! :-) These are the people *I* support - SBO's ( Smaller Business Owners) who can't afford high-end advice and worse, can't afford errors that cost them ANY business today.) I have had numerous messages from people where they have all felt compelled to write to me privately - because of the visciousness of just a few Flamers on this Board, which is a shame. In general, a nicer bunch of friendly people you wouldn't find anywhere else. I would dearly love to leave Big Bill! We all would. But I still need to put cake on the table. My system has to make money and it has to do it efficiently - unlike many others in the Geek community, nobody is paying my wages while I play with experimentals. It is not a hobby. I don't have time for one! :-) BUT, I still recall the horror of a simple NT 4 upgrade taking my main system out and leaving me in the middle of a large publishing job - to which I received the typical M$ RR response: Reformat and reinstall...it's tough, but it does that Our Unix systems rarely, rarely went down in the good ol' days - and I remember Concurrent Dos (System Manager OS) that nearly sent our commercial Service Contract Division broke - clients realised they never called for help and went casual! If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate some details for my ever-growing database :-) You see, it is now apparent that much (most?)of the troubles I see are equipment related - as many as broken Softstuff. In the business world, we don't have time for rebooting and changing mindsets to do simple jobs. Much less the expensive training curves! We no longer have the staff or the time. Rebooting! THAT's why we all want to leave Big Bill! :-) 1. Do you work *technically* with computers as a job/student? ( I notice you have XP which is an expensive upgrade for most domestic users, and 2 systems) 2. What is your system? Motherboard? Graphics? Sound is Audigy - but type? 3 Are your two machines networked and on line? If so, with what method? 4. Most importantly - are you using graphic mode? 5. How do you write letters, spreadsheets, smple databases? 6. Equally importantly - did you do an automatic install in graphics mode? (I've now learned from many responses that it is the easy install that fails. Most successes are by command line affecianados) Thanks again for your earlier response. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: James Thomas To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Living in the real world - Win4Lin4 NO INTEREST TO GEEK FOLKS I generally avoid these kinds of discussions but I feel compelled to respond. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re: [newbie] OT: saving the power supply unit
Hi folks, G!!! Turning bright green with envy, descending into purple gloom. It's a great day if my M$ box stays up for 10 hours!! :-) Not counting simple program lockups, of course. Would be interesting to see who has the record on the list for keeping a Mandrake Server up for the longest. We all know that Geeks never tell fibs, so it would be true. :-) Small thought: If you lived in California or some other places on this planet, the power prices are so high, that if you shut down every time you weren't needing the system for a period of say, 3 hours or more, you could BUY yourself a new system every coupla years out of the savings! :-) Cheers, John - Then there is something wrong with your system. I have systems that have been running for 6 months or more, one of them 230 days. They are RedHat 6.2 servers, but I would expect the same from Mandrake. -- Gerald Waug Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Fw: [newbie] OT,How to zing like the best. RE: Was: How to bestsupport Mandrake
- Original Message - From: john rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] OT,How to zing like the best. RE: Was: How to bestsupport Mandrake Ahhh, Is anyone home with you two? Hellooo? The reason that my comms are in Doze is because - **like femme** and a zillion others - the Mandrake installs fail!!. I cannot since Redhat 5.2 ( nor can anyone else I've ever known) replace the most basic functions of a person who makes a living using a computer.. like writing letters, backing up to a CD, editing a little Website, etc. etc. AND I've had fabulous support and help from the good people on this very List, who tried very hard to help, over what seems decades. I still have not read a cogent argument against a single comment I made. Not a single line of rational, supportable argument. ( BTW: YA Mother wears gumboots! is not a cogent retort, neither is to betray abysmal ignorance of the language and refer to a person as a troll - a distinct entity in English mythology with sound etymology.) My last - thanks to Big Bill's product - which does at least work - communication on the arcane matter of Business Point101. I will wait and see what other bad news appears like Femmes re 8.2. (Sigh) like most people most of my things now will tend to be USB like most of the world except the M8.2 distro?? Sadly, John - Original Message - From: Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NewbieMandrake-List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] OT,How to zing like the best. RE: Was: How to bestsupport Mandrake On Tue, 2002-03-19 at 03:37, FemmeFatale wrote: OW ! *zing!* cute Lyvim ;p -- -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Living in the real world - Win4Lin4 NO INTEREST TO GEEK FOLKS
Hello Non-geeks, Good news - but like the Curate's egg, only - quite good in parts :-) Win4lin is to release a new product soon which will release more memory for operations in Windoze. I almost fell off my highchair when I learned it is limited to 64k. BUT apparently is so efficient in the use of it under Linux that it doesn't do too badly at all. As a solution though, it is still very loose for the serious (but non-geek) user. Even Civilme (the resident expert on the Newbie list) THOUGHT he was putting me in my place by telling me that in some Govt Dept they had some typistes *actually* using Linux and olde Star Office. BUT then went on and said they were *using* WorpdPerfect! (Sigh) A separate and quite expensive product (but very good) except that nobody I know outside of Civilme has ever got it to go on and work! You will need to consider some of the Doze options for some time to come, in my *practical applications* opinion. Here is the game state up to now as I have been able to drag it out in the last month since I returned to see if the performance had improved for Mandrake since I gave up on 8.0: 1. There is nothing like even FrontPage98 in the Linux world that I could get to install/see working. One of them trashed one of my semi-successful installs completely. ( I also used the one IBM bought out, in its Doze form and it was full of holes.) 2. If you are a serious business user, you NEED to be moving toward voice recognition as you know. Win4Lin doesn't support anything fancy at all . No sound, no fancy computational/graphical demands . BUT They do expect to have a decent amount of memory available in V4 for our bloated MS products. You do have the option of using the IBM ViaVoice product - if you can ever get Linux working on your system, but I've not tried it and it is a lower-level version than the outside world version. BTW: Be careful of the included Software with anyone's packages, but Mandrakes 8.0 claimed to include Via Voice et al and I've since been told that they were only trial programs!! (Nobody I personally know has been able to get Mandrake any distro to work properly, you see, so this is heresay... ) 3. I don't think the available products that I used, when I did sometimes get Manrake to *partially* work, are anywhere near commercial acceptability. ( Star Office, KDE etc. incredibly poor presentation and often almost non-existent help structures). 4. Sensible backups to CD? Forget it! I have learned that this is a non-event for Win4Lin for the forseeable future. But, I don't know anyone that got anything simple like Doze's Nero or EZCD to go under Linux and several Geeks (privately) told me to forget it. Borne out by the massive problems reported on the list here with CDR much less CDW). 5. The 8.2 Mandrake had terrific writeups in the press - but in the light of the failures being experienced by the geek contingent on this list already, it is a loong way off being real-world ready. It is actually trashing many previously hard-won working installations! 6. It appears to me to be still the most fabulous Server System in the world and great fun for the hobbyist/masochist, but I am still highly motivated by the continual failures of the MS OS and their draconian plans for the future, so will keep coming back in hopes. SUMMARY: I believe you really need a Geek to get you online. BUT Be careful! I've wasted money on would-be experts - but I must say I was sympathetic on 2 grounds: 1. I did own a specialised Networking Company before it was even called that! So I KNOW what can go wrong. 2. Distros are notoriously confounded by the insane desperate attempt to serve 2 masters: the poor Geek who wants/expects everything in life to be free, including full-blown Server Systems(!) and the real world market which simply wants to pay its money and get a working, useful product. SO, get a fixed price for the job. NEVER pay by the hour - even $5 p.h. !!! I now believe that even a Civilme(expert) could take literally days to get an existing Hardware system up and WORKABLY on line. *** (Having said that, there is an interesting piece in the E-News REALITY in the next week or so.) Do be prepared to install Win4Lin to keep access to your proven and trained-in products. I have heard of excellent results from people using Lotus Smartsuite in these conditions. Do have one or more systems Windows bootable with Win4Lin and use Linux as a dedicated Internet Server on another, if possible. DON'T DO ANYTHING NOW. Unless you can dedicate a lot of non-producing time to the project, it is still early days. By all means, get a standby machine and have a go. But, don't attempt serious business integration for some time yet. I believe that someone of (business) maturity will take over in Mandrake, or one of the many others and do the bleedin' obvious ( to any experienced businessman) and get out a productivity-designed package for the 90
Re: [newbie] System Getting Sluggish
I have another question... Do you think it is possible for Windoze to infect linux across a partition THAT all sounds like a perfectly normal Windoze scenario to me :-) But seriously, many times similar things have turned out to be simple over-heating. Cheapest overhaul in the world! Another BIG fan. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: Damian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lista de Mailing Linux-Newbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] System Getting Sluggish i may have a penny to add to this thread. but before i start babbling, i have a question for everyone getting a sluggish system after a while. are you all running KDE? see ya. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT,How to zing like the best. RE: Was: How to bestsupport Mandrake
Ahhh, Is anyone home with you two? Hellooo? The reason that my comms are in Doze is because - **like femme** and a zillion others - the Mandrake installs fail!!. I cannot since Redhat 5.2 ( nor can anyone else I've ever known) replace the most basic functions of a person who makes a living using a computer.. like writing letters, backing up to a CD, editing a little Website, etc. etc. AND I've had fabulous support and help from the good people on this very List, who tried very hard to help, over what seems decades. I still have not read a cogent argument against a single comment I made. Not a single line of rational, supportable argument. ( BTW: YA Mother wears gumboots! is not a cogent retort, neither is to betray abysmal ignorance of the language and refer to a person as a troll - a distinct entity in English mythology with sound etymology.) My last - thanks to Big Bill's product - which does at least work - communication on the arcane matter of Business Point101. I will wait and see what other bad news appears like Femmes re 8.2. (Sigh) like most people most of my things now will tend to be USB like most of the world except the M8.2 distro?? Sadly, John - Original Message - From: Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NewbieMandrake-List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] OT,How to zing like the best. RE: Was: How to bestsupport Mandrake On Tue, 2002-03-19 at 03:37, FemmeFatale wrote: OW ! *zing!* cute Lyvim ;p Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] How to best support Mandrake - real world style
Hi Sridhar and folks again, You are actually selling my case, again, my friend. Everybody and his dog have already tried to make this unworkable thing go and there has been a 100% failure. Look around. Now look at Microsoft. A company flogging a set of products that even the front-end user has become enraged with and they are about to REALLY sock it to us.. ME and my millions of non-geek compatriots. What are our real world choices? 1. Stay and be . you-know-what-ed 2. Go to the Fruit? ... An absurd but very successful Religion built on the most atrocious lies. BUT great Advertising/PR. ( Great margins for the resellers, too who sorta illegally, in my opinion for most countries, agree not show them against anything else!) Amazing over-pricing. They could if they wanted, quadruple their marketshare, but who wants to?? It would mean cutting margins - poo to that! 3. The *X world. Now, the big corporate users are well catered for - even Bill's Billions haven't help him make a dent there. He just hasn't got the product and knows it, but he knows that the IT world is dumbing down, too. So that leaves the small business person and the domestic user. There is not a single, sensible product out there oriented toward the needs of the 90 million and the 300 million in the wings. I know because I and many, many people I know are still there, still trying. AND that is not even the highly experienced group I'm talking about - people like me who can not even understand the Manual. (Even though it has little to do with the actual product or components of the moment) Until somebody who understands PL Statements and can write them a Business Plan does so, the future of Mandrake is decidedly grim. I will take bets on it -sadly. I want it to work, but 30 years of international business experience- many as a last chance consultant - tells me that this future is clear. Simple arithmetic. Folks, skip the rhetoric, the Religious fervour, give me some hope based on some sensible numbers. What we need are some Cost Accountants here... :-) Cheers, Him Again Still with time on his hands - the last attempt at installing M8.0 fell over yesterday on my techo friends machine, too. - Original Message - From: Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] How to best support Mandrake - real world style You seem to be applying closed-source pricing policies to something that is free (as in speech). Why would one pay $100 for a Mandrake server when the source is free? Someone can compile this source code and bingo: free (as in speech and in beer) Mandrake, which can be legally distributed to millions of people. Otherwise, they could just download Debian or Red Hat. Sure, Mandrake could make proprietary aplications like Suse does (and note that Suse is in financial difficulty while Red Hat isn't), but that would destroy Mandrakesoft's reputation in the GNU/Linux community. Mandrakesoft is a free software company through to the core. In this way it is almost like Debian, and it is the principal reason why myself and many others like the company. Estranging the developer community would just create a slow-developing and unpopular distro like Caldera OpenLinux (which used to be amongst the most popular). I like Mandrake. I respect Mandrakesoft. But if they move to a restrictive pricing policy like that of Suse or Caldera, I will switch to a free (as in speech) distro like Debian or Gentoo. On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:46:14 +1000, john rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Todd folks, Explaining value: How much money do you think charities would receive if the big numbers weren't tax deductible? Many years ago a friend of mine who thought he knew marketing ( was a famous expert) went into professional fund-raising. Lasted 3 months. Yet, it is the little people that DO make real charities work. They just don't have the money... BUT if you give them an option to buy something that is actually useful as well, they do, they do. Some genius in Oz many years ago came up with the idea of the Lion's Club Xmas Cake. Even I used to buy a couple .. I don't even believe in Free Trials. I believe in guarantees. Moneyback ones. Who could run a business today without them? In most civilised countries they are mandatory. If *anyone* could download a *demo* of Mandrake, that too is different. THAT would be very smart. AND small. It would have to demo a full replacement for THAT other one's suite - that's all. That's all means just that. Not one in a million - literally- of the potential users out there would even ever know what a Server was. Would ever use the utils. For true Geeks, the legion of Masochists who like developing\getting broken by these things, by all means they should be able to play with kernels etc
[newbie] OT: Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma.
Hi Robin folks, Two small adjustments and this is an axiom: - Original Message - From: Robin Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:50 PM Subject: [OT] Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. Operators think they're software engineers. Technicians think they're hardware engineers. Hardware and software engineers think they're computer scientists. Computer scientists think they're cognitive scientists. Cognitive scientists think they're philosophers. Philosophers think they may be God. God is the H.O. sysadmin. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] How to best support Mandrake - real world style
- Original Message - From: Brian Parish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: newbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 9:53 AM Subject: [newbie] How to best support Mandrake I have read lots of threads about the club memberships etc on this list and find it very understandable that there are some diverse opinions on this. Given that, isn't the best way to support the distro we like to BUY it DIRECT from Mandrake. 8.2 pre-orders are now available. I suggest that if you want to support Mandrake and get CLEAR value for your money, order the 8.2 powerpack or server edition now direct from http://www.mandrakestore.com My guess would be that if you buy it from your computer shop, Mandrake may see only a small percentage of this. * VERY small. - Actually, this seemingly innocuous suggestion from Brian is the very heart of the Free issue. Of course that is the sensible thing to do! HOWEVER Human Beans are strange.. The concept of free in technology development is mightily confused. It is one thing to have the idea of GNU - or the knowledge SHARING concept, but free as in no charge is something else again and unfortunately, is how most people see this area to be. The very idea of charity is a repugnant thing when viewed intelligently. Support aid is something else entirely. But buying value!! All Linux needs, much less Mandrake, which already has enormous goodwill out there, is good word of mouth from the freebie-using (demanding??) geeks and their help/support to the worldwide community of non-geeks who in their tens of millions would gladly change to get away from the BSOD of Windoze. A simple change to payment for *amazing* value received, would get the revenue moving. Even the most avid do-it-myself-for-free geek could see the logic in paying the wages and system maintenance of the organisers/co-ordinators of this grand scheme - once it was presented properly. AND even the most impoverished of them could and - more importantly - most WOULD spring for a lousy ten bucks for their distro download. But not if it is free, too. THAT goes against the commonsense and the natural mindset. Estimated 2 MILLION downloads so far. Real users? Maybe 50,000. But, if Mandrake called in PayPals services and said: $10 for the lot by download in bits. NO FREEBIES, it would work. (If it didn't the worst that would happen is only what *is* going to happen.. another nice company bites the dust, sooner or later.) Shops could still sell the Full Boxes. Nobody should be able to get the full commercial Server system without being FINANCIALLY competent enough to spring say, even $100. Seen M$ Prices for a Server Mandrake should have a giant list of available installers - anyone wanting to help defeat the Dark Forces - and a basic price for a domestic help (over the phone) $25 in-house setup, $50 small business network. Say, $100 up. ANYONE successfully installing a working graphics interfaced Mandrake should be able to apply for a Certificate and then go help their friends get the same GREAT thing they have just seen *working*, writing a letter, playing a game, sending email, chatting and scanning photos.. I have a dream... One day to send out emails to ALL my connections saying: Guess what I've got? No more expensive annoying Microsoft! No more spying on me looking for expensive-so-pirated software! A $5,000 Microsoft system for $250 - fully installed! EVERYTHING! It's called MANDRAKE LINUX and it is magic and it is Mr Gates's worst nightmare come true, at last. It is now user friendly! AND YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO FEAR VIRUSES TRASHING YOUR SYSTEM AND EMAILING YOUR MOM! It just doesn't happen with Linux! Go here and see the story! http:... Oh happy days at last! Cheers! John (sigh) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] In a world of geeks......... :-)
Ha folks, I went there and it looked like it covered EVERYTHING you really did and didn't want to know about x. Veni vidi vinci no I didn't :-) http://rute.sourceforge.net/rute.html The cute thing is enormous! Looks great! Needs an already installed WORKING Linux to even read the Manual !!! Ha Ha Ha Ha..sigh John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] How to best support Mandrake - real world style
Hi Todd folks, Explaining value: How much money do you think charities would receive if the big numbers weren't tax deductible? Many years ago a friend of mine who thought he knew marketing ( was a famous expert) went into professional fund-raising. Lasted 3 months. Yet, it is the little people that DO make real charities work. They just don't have the money... BUT if you give them an option to buy something that is actually useful as well, they do, they do. Some genius in Oz many years ago came up with the idea of the Lion's Club Xmas Cake. Even I used to buy a couple .. I don't even believe in Free Trials. I believe in guarantees. Moneyback ones. Who could run a business today without them? In most civilised countries they are mandatory. If *anyone* could download a *demo* of Mandrake, that too is different. THAT would be very smart. AND small. It would have to demo a full replacement for THAT other one's suite - that's all. That's all means just that. Not one in a million - literally- of the potential users out there would even ever know what a Server was. Would ever use the utils. For true Geeks, the legion of Masochists who like developing\getting broken by these things, by all means they should be able to play with kernels etc. to their hearts content. They are vital - but they have little to do with successful, competent *marketing* strategy. At most in the whole world we are talking about 10,000 people. All could be absorbed into a Friends Of Mandrake Developer's Club (free - entry requirement being a proved fully working install) and given lots of help via the millions coming in from a sensible consumer distro... But, what on earth *IS* someone who can't afford a lousy $100 doing playing with Server Systems and expecting support??? ( Pardon my ignorance, but what type of person are we talking about here, then?) REAL Server Systems DO cost thousands - I know I've bought and paid for them over the years. I STILL don't ever expect them to be free! What I hope for is just the dream of freedom of choice. To finalise my point: The 18 richest people in the history of this planet - 6 of whom each have more financial power than existed in the entire world a century ago, run businesses based on maximising of market opportunity - which translated means: charging what the market is prepared to pay. Not even what will make a simple profit - but maximising what the market will pay. None of them and no successful person in the history of the world ever made any money by giving their product or service away! Samples, yes, Demos, yes, the whole cake? I repeat, can someobody show me what the sales pitch is here? There is a market like me who will pay for experimental products in the hope of getting an edge, or even holding on (to his sanity) but, we are miniscule. How many total paid-for retail packs has Mandrake sold? Not even enough to run a single, tiny Corporate Jet. But, 20 million at just $10 each = $200 million - with no distribution costs. It's a start. Especially as almost nobody came to the pay-for Club Party. Who would? Most of the people out there won't even pay for a disc pak that you can buy for a few bucks. They are already conditioned to free. They will build a machine at home to save $20-50 assembly fee. Get no guarantee. Some do it because they like the pain. They are not the market. They are not the market They are not the market The market is the 90 million annoyed, frustrated Windows Users who will soon be told to join a subscriber thing or else. The market even bigger and better is the 300 million people out there who would buy a computer if it wasn't all so confusing and threatening and full of 20 y.o. kids showing off in electronic stores using all the latest splat words. Instead of a nice older person who smiles and arranges their home installation for them and a training session on the Net to hook them into a User Support Group Mandrake could own it. Cheap low-level hardware. Cheap Operating System Cheap Software Built-in giant underground support network. Jobs as installers for hundreds of junior geeks Jobs as tutors for hundreds of older Users. It would all be so easy. Cheers, Him Again - Original Message - From: Todd Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] How to best support Mandrake - real world style On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:59:34 +1000 john rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The very idea of charity is a repugnant thing when viewed intelligently. Support aid is something else entirely. But buying value!! Could you explain this a little more? snip But, if Mandrake called in PayPals services and said: $10 for the lot by download in bits. NO FREEBIES, it would work. I would never have downloaded and tried Mandrake if I had had to pay. I was not willing
[newbie] Geek vs the rest dilemma. NOW NUTZ BOLTZ
Hi Damien, What distro was it? I still have a Full Box 8.0 which failed on my old machine and I am going to try it on another System which has a Ricoh CDRW. My plan now is try it and see - if it doesn't work on this one, I will try an 8.2 update I want to put the 8.0 on to get the IBM ViaVoice product which came with it ( wouldn't even install on the last try). The last few messages have given me a little hope again... Different machine: MSI 6320 Board P3 667 Chip On Board Video (Intel) 8513 series chips Als 4000 Sound card 1x Sony CD 1x Ricoh 7120A CDRW - Original Message - From: Damian Gatabria [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. well, my machine? just a P2 400 MMX .. 256 MB Ram, 6,4 GB and 30 GB hd's, Intel 8 MB AGP video card, 64 bit Creative labs Sound... and yes, a Samsung 12x8x32 burner, which worked right after install. geek... i don't think i tinker enough with the stuff to fall into that category.. however i do spend a lot of time with my computer. i guess i'm kind of a hybrid between regular user and geek, kinda.. i got this Dr. Jeckill Mr. Hyde into me.. but concerning your questions.. absolutely no tweaking. MDK worked for me 100%. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Geek vs the rest dilemma.: How to tell a Geek - simplified
Hi Ed, Shane folks, For even further edification and the eluctation of any interloculators, may I present an even easier Geek test? Q1: Given the option of having a date with Britney or finagling a fix for that recalcitrant Soundcard, which would you choose? (a) Britney(b) The Box Q2: Would you consider it boring if HYPOTHETICALLY anyone, just anyone could plug in a Cd and do a full M8+ install, what would you do? (a) immediately switch and start learning a REAL system: Berkley! (b) Be happy for the lowly Users. Q3: Do you know the names of fifteen Command Line Utilities? (a) yes (b) no Q4: Do you opt to use the already available GUI display options to execute existing programs, or automatically crack open a Terminal? (a) Terminal (b) You crazy? Click it! Q5: You had no idea what a command line was until you discovered Linux (a) Always used them even in Windows. (b) I thought white on black was a Display theme! Q6: You always cook your own kernels. (a) Doesn't everyone, isn't it mandatory? (b) No, I order with Fries over the counter. Q7: You can remember 5 level path assignments for fifty executables and think anyone who uses autocomplete is a wuss. (a) What else is there to remember/think about? (b) You mean I don't have to write them down and type them in each time? Q8: You can have a complete conversation with another person about the latest distro and never complete a full word in actual English (or your native language). (a) Yes, of course(b) What is a distro? Q9: Your children, fellow employees, mate, never say the MS word without spitting and crossing themselves - even though Baptists. (a) Yes, and rub a Penguin icon.(b) What's a MS word? Q10: You see no reason why you can't enjoy the best of both worlds and use Win4lin as well. (a) What's Win4lin?(b) Yeah, what's Win4lin? If you scored more than one (a) you are geeky. 2 you are a worry 3 you are definitely a geek 4+. You need help to re-enter the real world. Or, not. (You aren't missing much) If you scored any more than one (b) you are a user! Cheers, Him Again - Original Message - From: ed tharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. hey shane, if it talks like a geek, and walks like a geek, and can install any OS, then Jon says you are a geekGRIN Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi Lee and folks, - Original Message - From: Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ? OK, I got it now. Anyone who has positive input to your thread is a geek or power user No, No! Anyone who has something positive to say will help give me heart to try it all yet again! But I need it to be someone who isn't an expert at it :-) Example: Many centuries ago, I hired a young kid to help me with a small problem I was having. I didn't know you couldn't do it so ... I was interfacing $5,000 Osborne Executive microcomputers (Transportable P.C.) to $55,000 Photoypesetting computers because they could do so much more. So, I was aiming for a $5000 really useful Terminal, instead of paying $23,000 for a real Terminal. The kid read machine code directly, like I read a Dunn's Report. ( Something most Software Engineers today have no idea of its even existence - but it is the ones and zeros end stuff.) He was very lonely. Nobody really understood anything he was talking about. I introduced him to some VHT (very high tec) people in the Big computer industry. He was mightily unimpressed. He worked 18 hours a day for a couple of weeks and then went away - found something more interesting somewhere else. But I had the first input system of its kind in the whole world - even the manufacturers couldn't work out how the kid did it. He did the analysis determined the technical job) programmed it, built the circuitboards, even devised a cable signal cleaner. Never even seen a Modem. I showed him how to use it and roughly what it did. He went and made up new ones for my branches that *really* worked - they were the first smart modems I ever knew of.. Could not type or spell to save his life. Could hardly read. You had to talk to him and show him what you wanted but once he understood... Now, he was the True Geek. Like the guys who think writing advanced computer games is easy. So geekness is a many faceted thing. It isn't the kid who knows a bit more than the true Newbie and quotes what he has read /been told, it is a state of mind - AND a knack with the tin boxes. But at the other end are the simple users - people like me who never want to see a command line if there is no reason to - who simply want to plug it in and go. Even Doze 98SE can do that. It can be done. Mandrake can do it. All that is necessary is to stop trying to be all things to all people. Put out a RETAIL product for the rest of us. We don't need Servers in a distro for God's sake! Or 5000 utilities that even the laws of statistics tell us will have a 50% no-go rate. We need an approved list of bits that work - like MS does, but on a smaller scale. We need small entrepreneurs who will put together setup boxes for people. OR help by installing it on existing systems - putting in Win4Lin (next version!) if necessary for already exposed users. But mainly putting in the equivalent, or literally, Wordperfect Office. 99% of all prospects out there only want/need to get on the net, write a letter, run simple accounts and have a source of help on line AT THEIR LEVEL. OK, I guess I AM an evangelist in a way. but I have a dream... well, a nightmare anyway - called Dot NET. Cheers, Him Again John Rigby Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi Todd,
Thanks for the info.
But you are right you are disqualified! :-)
Home built box indeed! :-0
- Original Message -
From: Todd Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Everything was easy. Things that have gone wrong have done so because I
tinker. It's the same thing I did with Windows95, and that's how I learn.
I have a feeling I'll be disqualified from your survey because I've used
acronyms and specified models.
Actually, though, putting a tinthing together is far easier than the
software side today.
You are right. If the Newbie is truly new to the PC - it will all be the
same - horrific! :-)
I had a friend who developed a serious reflex problem which left him able to
handle hitting keys but not the dreaded rodent.
I printed him out the standard keyboard shortcuts for W98 and then installed
some specials for him and macros.
Now I envy him!
His sister, a totally conditioned Apple-eater was finally shocked into
silence with the wizardry now possible on the derided PC.! :-{
Interestingly, it was the heart of the Apple success that it followed the
Ford Motor Co principle:
Any colour you like so long as it's black - coupled with the outrageous
lies of the totally brilliant marketing of the things. There were no
options, no choices, no nothing. Even the screens were mono long after the
world had moved on. BUT compared to how you were presented with a P.C. they
were SIMPLE TO USE because there were very few things it could do. Choices
were extremely limited.
This is what Linux needs. To reach the non-geek market. There are very few
geeks comparatively and they tend to be poor ( :-) ) There are squillions
of people out there whose first reaction will be to price. Nobody can do a
low-level low-cost deal like a Linux box can.
All we have to do is get it to work together by distinguishing the
prospects:
geeks and users
two TOTALLY different markets requiring a totally different approach and
product.
Cheers!
John
There aren't any great teachers, there are great absorbing subjects of the
time and greatly interested students. Without the latter there is no former
Kilneth.
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ? NOW what for?
Shane, You are being very, very rude and are thus, probably very, very young. I will however answer you. The reason the *quiet moneymakers* use Frontpage and the early 98 version at that, is because THE WORLD uses I. E. and I.E. compatibility. Nobody in their right mind wouldn't design expressly for I.E. It is 90%+ of the users. ( Professional real world marketers tend to look to these sort of things) No package known to me or that group, can do the cheap and quick product - that the world demands - the way it can, and then allow a small client to edit simply, on his own, using the freebie FP Express. Finally, the whole point *is* that I have had completely untrained people in the 100's install/upgrade their own Windows 98 on a simply prepared box over the years. ( I founded and ran a very large computer users group for many years). FACT: I and obviously, *very few others* have ever successfully been able to comfortably install Linux as is being proved on this list every day, by the great range of problems. I am returning to Mandrake's excellent community support once again, to see if it has evolved into something I personally can use and recommend to my friends. It appears that 8.1 was a big improvement over 8.0 and 8.2 beta is claimed to be even better. The vast majority of responses have been sincere attempts to enlighten me toward the chances of finding M8+ useful in a real business environment. Unfortunately, there are still very few users seriously using it except for fun and their own amusement/challenges. Serious use of it requires access to working/workable business programs at least equal to those in the vast majority. So far there seems to be none. Which leaves the Win4lin option. John The only people to really fear are those who know that they are right - especially those who are not Kilneth - Original Message - From: shane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ? bullshit, really, seriously, FP is good only for creating MS documents for MSbrowsers, and anyone who thinks that is all you need will have a rude awakening when a combination of linux/mac/bsd users and AOL using gecko as their engine puts IE back under 40% on the browser share. front page is to the webpages what oil spills are to the environment, a big stinking mess that someone will have to clean or will just keep on destroying. i was taking you seriously until now. lets get one thing straight. anyone who can install any other OS can install linux. yes this leaves some people out, but those people couldn't install windows either. shall we make them all use type writers? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake's financial situation: PayPal
Hi Femme, True? No! I think that is put around by the Banks. :-) It is especially useful to small traders trading internationally. It is on Fablor's recommended list. Has done wonders for some of their Academy members. The only real worry is that some operator will take them over. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Mandrake's financial situation pay pal is also one of the most insecure methods of doing e-business so I'm told by a business friend of mine. True? No? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma.
Hello folks! I assure you - this is not off-topic. A short time ago I wrote a small paper on the psychology of expectation. In having several hundred monitors read it, I was able to demonstrate from their commentaries the sex and approximate age of the respondees with 80% accuracy. It is all about prior conditioning. The divisions in Linux are identical to the range in the natural sexes - all four of 'em. The Geek is a geek for many reasons, often complex. The Simple User is one for a single reason. To get a specific job done. Period. To remove the emotive accelerants from the issues here we need to create 4 new classes of interest/function: 1. Simple User. A businessperson or pro wanting to utilise their time more effectively/productively. 2. Super User. As above, but forced to undertake technical activities to achieve tools results (Me!) because of lack of resources outside. 3. Hobby Geek. Somebody who finds intense research satisfying. Extremely focused hobbyist - because it is a safe outlet. Phase2: Will often try to make money out of it - only ever as a sideline - their psychology is capitalism adverse. Cause Super Users a lot of grief with well-meaning bad advice/efforts. 4. Pro Geek. Makes an actual living as technician in the field. Highly paid for his (rarely her) work, if ANY good at all, due to general great lack of competence in the technical area. Always extremely busy. Extremely poor communicators. Need to simply be given the job to do. Never ask them questions. The vast gulf between User and Geek is similar to that between male and female - as whatsisname said: from different planets. The User simply wants the tool to be *monetarily* usable. Period. He is only trying to make money in the violent competition of the outside world. The Geek simply wants to overcome obstacles and enjoy feeling superior in the only area he can. Now - don't shoot the messenger! This is a fairly apt generalisation of reasonable accuracy. Look around you. :-) Geeks LVE command lines! Users HTE anything made unnecessarily complex. They Looove GUI. Your humble correspondent a year ago set out with high ideals to design and construct a genuine Newbies Guide Book. It was to be based on the author's own experiences.. he gave up. Nobody was able to get a *single* machine of his to work in an acceptable commercial manner. And now this: http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/security/story/0,224985,20263960,00.htm Yet and yet, hope springs eternal. I will buy yet another box and try again. This time with Win4Lin and try to bridge the gap between the market-aware world and the totally cathedral-like views of the many intelligent but incredibly naive people who think it will all happen because we are nice. Big Bill must light many a candle in the cathedral for the miraculous lack of organised competition out there which could have - should have - wiped him out by now - after all, Microsoft is essentially only a very big Dot Com.. an idea, a hope, a hustle. He must have friends in very high places, no? But that man is a marketing genius. The best hustler on this whole planet - with the money to prove it. And now, back to our regular programme Is there anyone out there who has simply put in the CD and obtained a working ( really working - Office suite, communications, ViaVoice, replacement for FrontPage98) and a few user utilities? WITHOUT RESORTING TO ARCANE COMMAND LINE APPROACHES. Can we even say that e.g. the Intel P3 works with it? AMD? (Duron or Athlon?) The 8513 Chipset? The X Motherboard? Onboard sound, video? MSI Boards? (Models?) Asus Bds? (Models?) Anyone got Win4lin going in one go? Anyone got WINE to run anything? FrontPage? Cheers, Him Again Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi folks, Is there anyone out there who has simply put in the full distro CDs and obtained a working ( really working - Office suite, communications, ViaVoice, replacement for FrontPage98) and a few user utilities? WITHOUT RESORTING TO ARCANE COMMAND LINE APPROACHES. Can we even say that e.g. the Intel P3 works with it? AMD? (Duron or Athlon?) The 8513 Chipset? The X Motherboard? Onboard sound, video? MSI Boards? (Models?) Asus Bds? (Models?) Anyone got Win4lin going in one go? Anyone got WINE to run anything? FrontPage? Has it ever happened? With bated breath, Cheers, Him Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma.
- Original Message - From: Dimitris Ioannou To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. Maybe YOU should do 2 things Dimitris: 1. Re-read my note 2. Re-read your reply. --- I hope that this poisoned letter of yours comes only because you tried very hard as a Linux newbie to install and get some things working (apps) and obviously you didn't succeed in doing so. You will never make it, trust me. Never, as long as you are carrying in your back and in your mind the M$ philosophy of get things working. Obtain some, cathedral, as you name it thinking and then,maybe , things will work out for you. thrown away P.S. Forgive me if I'm being too arogant but you managed to piss me off, while I have a lot of work to discover new bugs in KDE 3.0 Beta 2! I did say: Now - don't shoot the messenger!I certainly did fail! That was the whole point of the commentary! I have not found since Redhat 5.1 a SINGLE SOUL who managed to instal a comprehensively working Linux system who was not a full-fledged Geek. (Actually it is only heresay even then - I personally have not seen one.) Big Bill is the richest man on the planet. Mandrake is sadly facing bankruptcy. One is logical the other is evangelical. Mandrake MUST fail if it persists in its "negative loop". It is insane that a product is ever given away. The model has never, ever worked. Over a trillion Dollars in lost investor funds has already shown this and we are looking at more than that figure again. Most of which was Pension Funds, Old People's and family savings entrusted to "Institutions". Mandrake's salvation is simple. Get some professional enterprise skills in there. Get some people who know marketing. Start with logic: a product given away not only has no value to the receiver, it is very expensive to the donor. Mandrake is already a great Value-Adder. The minimum fee for the geek-downloadable product needs to be $20 to contribute to the maintenance - not make money - merely help offset costs. The Boxed product has made a great start - but who is marketing it, much less who is buying it. Mandrake needs a Certified Installer program. It needs to spend all it can out in the street supporting a grass-roots marketing strategy. One based on a simple fix: Buy it Installed and guaranteed working for just $150..or $250 I repeat: never could it have worked. The numbers - to any experienced marketer never were there.The second best known product in the Linux field, with rave reviews has even spent the money it got by floating. Even Mandrake is not going to be a D.I.Y. product ever - just the same as Windoze never was It needs to be fitted by a geek. Or a very experienced PC User. BTW: NOBODY has so far claimed to have met the condition I enquired of - a simple, one-go instal. MY case rests. sadly. But I'll be back. I am looking into Win4Lin, but the news so far isn't good. WINE - couldn't even find my way around on the Site. much less what it works with Maybe 8.1 will work.. or 8.2.. ( hope springs eternal) Cheers! Him Again
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi Lee, Thanks for your info, but you are a Power-User by the sound of the box specs! :-) I'm trying to determine if Linux - especially Mandrake is true to the old idea of not needing a monster box to run. I know of Linux Servers that are running on Steam-powered old things and just don't fall over. The sad thing is that I don't know anyone not at least a p/time geek who has made it all go without enough research and effort for a PhD. And of course, you mentioned 8.2 - which isn't even there for us chickens. Altho I noticed it got a couple of accolades on fixing earlier problems in reviews. The 8513 Chipset? The X Motherboard? Onboard sound, video? MSI Boards? (Models?) Asus Bds? (Models?) Anyone got Win4lin going in one go? Anyone got WINE to run anything? FrontPage? Has it ever happened? In a word.mostly 8.2 fired up everything nicely. Soyo Dragon Plus Radeon 7200 AMD Athlon 1900 Only problem isn't a Linux problem and I've said it before. I will probably have a WinBox 'til the cows come home because, in my business I have to communicate with people in their own (wordprocesser) language. When I get a letter in Word, I have to respond in Word to avoid obvious problems with recipients. WordPerfect in WordPerfect, etc. Frankly, I don't see where that is a problem. Linux is a tool, not a religion. It is doing faithfully everything that I expect, and did so right out of the ISO. Would that the rest of life were so simple. Every once in a while, I stumble around in the dark and either install a program or crash the computer, just for sport. Crashes and other self-inflicted wounds are becoming less frequent as Mandrake and I both evolve. More fun than a bowl of pollywogs. Lee Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma.
Hi Damien, WHOA! This isn't a fight! :-) It is simple research I'm glad for you! But, are you a geek or a user? ( See my suggested descriptors) What sort of system was it? Did you have the Holy Grail - a CDRW? - Original Message - From: Damian Gatabria [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. BTW: NOBODY has so far claimed to have met the condition I enquired of - a simple, one-go instal. ME !!! happy now? don't believe me? i don't care. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma.
Hey Dimiti, No excuses. THAT is consorting with the enemy. unclean! unclean! :-) When I was a kid in a far off land and time, we were told that consorting with Protestants could endanger our Souls. ( We were Catholics the REAL Chosen Ones - it said so in the books) - Original Message - From: Dimitris Ioannou To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. Ï/Ç "Rick [Kitty5]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ýãñáøå: On Tue, 2002-03-12 at 11:26, Dimitris Ioannou wrote: I hope that this poisoned letter of yours ...Well, you were the one who posted in HTML :)Yes, because , I'm at work now my friend (Windows based(, and couldn't resist answering the letter. Regards Dimitris
Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma.
Hi Michael, Then by definition they are ipso facto, NOT real Geeks. :-) NB: In the weird world of Computers, the hierachy is very strict. Techo's look down on the Marketeers, Programmers look down on both of them and REAL Designers don't even acknowledge the existence of any of the others except as nuisances on the long haul to PAI ( pure artificial intelligence). BTW: There is a sub-group called Customer Support Staff and nothing much is known about them.. they are REALLY strange and like the Big Bang Theory, the question is how the Support person became like that.. or were they that way inclined? Cheers, Him Again - Original Message - From: Michael Viron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. 4. Pro Geek. Makes an actual living as technician in the field. Highly paid for his (rarely her) work, if ANY good at all, due to general great lack of competence in the technical area. Always extremely busy. Extremely poor communicators. Need to simply be given the job to do. Never ask them questions. Not necessarily true -- there are some people who are making a living as a technician or more generally, in information technology, and are quite capable of communicating their ideas effectively in a way that non-geeks can understand. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma.
Hi Shane, But how did you all qualify on the Geek Scale? How long did it take the FIRST one? Cheers, Him Again - Original Message - From: shane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Answers to the Geek vs the rest dilemma. me and 5 friends. that makes several on this list alone already. I certainly did fail! That was the whole point of the commentary! I have not found since Redhat 5.1 a SINGLE SOUL who managed to instal a comprehensively working Linux system who was not a full-fledged Geek. (Actually it is only heresay even then - I personally have not seen one.) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi Robin, Thanks for the reply, but you don't mention your qualifications. My whole project is to demystify the thing for people who are simply Users, not Geeks or would-be's. As for Frontpage, the dozen or so people I know who make a living - yes, actually pay their rent from their activities as serious Web Implementers *all* use FP. Specifically, FP98. ( There are excellent reasons for it commercially and productively, if not technically) There is nothing simpler, there is nothing faster, there is nothing cheaper or easier to support - which is where you make or lose your hourly rate in the real world. I have tried to replace it many times ( a sucker for anything promising THIS time it will work :-) ) and still use it. BUT am always happy to hear from anyone about something different, new, better - after all - I've been with Linux since 5.2. :-) BTW: Your comment about people who can't be bothered coding HTML . you qualify as a Geek on THAT alone. :-) Cheers! John Simply because I know HOW change my own gearbox oil is certainly no reason to do so - Original Message - From: Robin Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ? As I said, every Mandrake from 7.2 on has worked out of the box on both my home computer (standard 2CD install) and my office computer (FTP install) with the sole exception that I mentioned of needing to type sndconfig to get my sound card working. Win 98 actually gave me more graphic card headaches (no built-in drivers for S3Trio or Trident, IRQ conflicts after upgrading to a GeForce II). Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi Robin, No wonder she freaked out! The actual inventor at PARC said only a couple of years ago that it was insane to have incorporated that device for the purpose. Actually, what you are used to has no relevance in the first approach to computers. There is no usable referential experience. except intelligence and that is pretty useless where using tinboxes and programs are concerned for the most part. The Managing Director of Osborne Computers told me ( before many of our correspondents here were born, much less working) that my invention of the menu was going to make it possible for *anyone* to accept and use the microcomputer. I wrote it in ASCII and created batch files. It made the Microcomputer accessible/usable for my staff. It was intelligence-oriented. Some actions involved up to thirty letters in input. But not for the staff. This is what it looked like from memory: ++ 1. Write a Letter 2. Add to Accounts 3. Telephone connect 4. HOW TO HELP 5. Save work to Floppy Disk 9. DANGER: Out to DOS +--+ The Menus simply cascaded never with more than 5 options. Easy? Even today, we still don't need pretty pikkies and animations - although the kids that design frontends love them - it replaces their cartoon lunchboxes.. :-) All we REALLY need are .. simple English Menus. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: Robin Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ? On Tuesday 12 March 2002 11:00, john rigby wrote: WITHOUT RESORTING TO ARCANE COMMAND LINE APPROACHES. How things have changed. I remember, back in 1991 or 1992, teaching our secretary how to use a computer. Typing was no problem, it was the mouse that freaked her out - I had to put her hand on the mouse then put my hand on hers and move it around (it looked pretty incriminating!). Whether the GUI or the command line is easier depends on (a) what you're used to and (b) what exactly you're trying to do. If you want to open a program, clicking on an icon is easier. If you want to find out the status of files in a directory, typing ll is easier. There's nothing inherently arcane about either of them. Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi Shane, Sorry you are disqualified, too! :-) You are obviously very techo if not Geek! What I'm chasing is whether any non-tech/geek people have ever succeeded. These are Users. People who simply want to make/improve their earning capacity via increased productivity. People who are ancient - like over 30. Vis: Anyone who has previously successfully installed any kind of Network is disqualified. :-) Anyone who LOVES the challenge of computer exercises. The THRILL of recovering trashed records, totalled systems. Cheers, John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Any First Go success stories ?
Hi Terry, Great! What are you using it for? What is the comparative speed like? What sort of system? Are you a User or a Geek, would you say? I think it offers a great answer for the small business person especially. Cheers, John - Original Message - From: Terry S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was able to get Win4Lin working in one go. After I bought my copy, I went to their website and downloaded the newest installer program. Things worked like a champ from there. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake's financial situation
Hi , There is a simple alternative: PayPal Don't know why every commercial Site doesn't have it oh commercial. That is what Mandrake isn't is it? :-( Everyone should use it - it stops the typical Bank ripoffs and anyone in most countries CAN use it http://www.paypal.com What Mandrake could do is offer everyone of their friends a free boxed set and upgrades for the next 3 years for $100 and membership for life as a Foundation Member works every time. OR $10 p.a. paid via PayPal per year. Cheers, John The only thing I DO understand is marketing. It costs a lot of money to do it. Rigby circa 1980 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake's financial situation
- Original Message - From: shane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:00 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Mandrake's financial situation On Tuesday 12 March 2002 08:28, Tom Brinkman opened a hailing frequency and transmitted: Otherwise you'll probly end up runnin RedHat . maybe even worse, M$ Linux paid for on a $ub$cription basis ;~ you really know how to scare a person, don't you? the thought of MSLinux alone is worse any of those hollywood horror flicks. AAARGGHH THAT there is the best motivator I've heard of in many a decade!! No sleep tonight... Dot NET 'em is bad enough. Cheers? John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Shame we live in diff countries and all
Well, Australia. No, not Austria, ORSTRALIA the REAL Godzone. Caloundra in S.E. Queensland Caloundra (26°51'30S 152°58'30E) Where Queens just aren't welcome funnily enough. Tough place. It *IS* like the Texans think Texas is. In fact we have a tiny little town here called Texas. Cheers, John Him Again P.S. You do get a different view from downunder - Original Message - From: Joe Brand [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:40 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Shame we live in diff countries and all Dr Joe Frenchtown, New Jersey. - Original Message - From: Michael T. Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [newbie] Shame we live in diff countries and all Even though I'm only basically lurking and learning, I'm still here...:) Mike - Draper, UT, USA! Mike Richards Bill; You forgot to say Raining and Damp ! Lanman Formerly of Abbotsford and now in Montreal, where it's a chilly -10 degrees Celsius, but it's a dry Chill! - Original Message - From: Bill Winegarden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Shame we live in diff countries and all Hi Everyone, British Columbia Canada..just above 0 degrees C (32 degrees F) Home of hockey GOLD! Bill W. On Tuesday 12 March 2002 11:23 am, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Hanan Shargi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:48 AM Subject: [newbie] Shame we live in diff countries and all Why dont we people post in what part of the world r we ?? starter: Name: Hanan Country: Fairfax, VA United States IP: .. nah ;-) - Hanan AL-Shargi Jim Gentry Charleston, SC, USA Where the Ashley and Cooper rivers converge to form the Atlantic Ocean. -- -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] boot disk doesn't work NOW: you got troubles?
On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:37, your wisdom was such..: ai4a [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shipahoy wrote: Hi My Mandrake 8.1 boot disk doesn't work. This includes the one made MY M8.0 doesn't even acknowledge the existence of mkbootdisk !!! Cheers, John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] M8.1 addins advice req.
Hello folks, Well, I was more than disappointed to find that the WIN4LIN inclusion in 8.1 wasn't real - just a demo. Very poor PR on Mandrake's part to do that. It isn't an included package - more like someone else's E-brochure. Anyone using Win4Lin or WINE out there able to tell me a little about their experiences? I need something to run FrontPage98 and Thumbsplus and with all the complaints out there still, probably Word as well. :-( I do have a copy of Wordperfect for Linux - any comments? I have M8.0 and was wondering if it was worth buying a std pak 8.1 and HOPING to get a bit further than with 8.0 . Still have no sound, no CD, lousy onscreen fonts. I am going to have to do a complete re-install anyway as I've lost the SU/root password.. :-( Cheers, him again Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mixed Doze/Linux startup problem
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:09, your wisdom was such..: make a linux boot disk, this will get you back to linux after you wipe out the mbr using a win/dos boot disk and type ...-let me get this right, either 'fdisk /mbr' or 'format /mbr' ** Oh Yes! It is fdisk /MBR you mean that win doesn't see another dos/win drive that is there? *** Not a Drive - a partition, f: M8 sees it and uses it. depending on your version of windows it is possible to rename a couple of files and do an 'upgrade' over itself, i think that this is usually only necessary when trying with an 'oem' version, full *** It is OEM - I've just forgotten how to do it :-( Thanks, Cheers, him again Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Konqueror Problem
Hi there, On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:29, you manipulated electrons to produce: Konqueror as of time being is not a full fledged browser. It doesn't support XML and other thingies. Probably the offending sites use these thingies. I think Nautilus has the same problems. You should use Netscape/Mozilla as your primary browser. --Jeferson L. Zacco aka Wooky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux registered user #221896 - I have tried both on my system and cannot access any of my bank details via the net including the Netscape default. Switch to Doze and I.E. 5 and no problems. I am trying out Gnome but think this may be part of the problem as it is very slow in Net responses compared to KDE 5 minutes later. Cheers, John
Re: [newbie] Apache Question
Ha folks, Yahoo! The expression not bizness. Something on MY setup is working!! :-) I can see it! I can see it! On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:31, Jan manipulated electrons to produce: If you installed Apache when you installed Mandrake 8 (you didn't mention OS distros or versions) it should have created the file index.html in the document root /var/www/html/ You should be able to view this by typing: http://localhost/ -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Uninstall Mandrake 8
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:51, you manipulated electrons to produce: On Monday 30 July 2001 19:59, Caruso Aldo wrote: 1. Boot from windows boot floppy (make one at a friend's PC if you don't have one) 2. at DOS prompt, type FDISK /mbr Really folks , this one comes up so often we should put it in the URL or something :-) *** DONE! It's in the Escape Book :-) -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] Mixed Marriage - Making it work, together: CL vs GUI To Help A Newby
Hi Judith, On Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:48, you manipulated electrons to produce: Sridhar wrote: You mean it isn't intuitive for a Windos user? Then you are correct. For people who have been using *nix for a while this can be very intuitive. Whoa! Intuitive has nothing to do with what OS someone knows how to use. Intuitive means known or perceived through intuition. *** Aha! A born debater! :-) Most of my working life was spent trying to introduce Western Technology in Asia - at the USER level. The greatest problem in presenting alternative - not even better - solutions to tasks is the cultural problem. *My* way has to be better, or this means I am wrong. To readily understand this point is simple: consider Religion! :-) However, INDUCEMENT to change is the highest requirement for rapidly overcoming the inbuilt habit/prejudice/bias of the student. In the case of Windows vs Linux, to really appreciate the differences requires comparing apples with apples (not Apples) and here we need to separate the application intention of the user: 1. Geek. 2. Tool user. In (1) there is utterly no question. Linux wins. The Internet runs on the stuff - despite Big Bill's massive efforts to sell the MS Server solutions. It is simply so superior that any true geek would become aware of it in a week or less - as happens. In (2) Mandrake is almost there! It is a problem of residual intention confusion that is the main outstanding difficulty. Pavarotti in an interview once said that he admired the dedication of all those other Opera Singers who can practise so hard, hour after hour, day after day. When reminded of how much time he spent working on his music he said, but I just sing! We are getting there very quickly. It is astounding that it *IS* happening so quickly and efficiently. People tend to forget that the vast bulk of great work done on this System is done by individuals and small groups who somehow find the time and energy to get it all together and create a cohesion that we still have yet to see come out of Redmond. ( Mind you, there is a different intention inside Redmond.) Even more amazing is the fact that the people being called on to make the System User Friendly, are not by instinct of the same mind/culture/Religion! As I keep saying - this exercise is massively cross-cultural. At one extreme are the Civilemes and Sridhars who actually LIKE the complexity and challenges, but they were born to it. At the other extreme is YHC, your humble correspondent, who an hundred years ago thought automatic gearboxes on autos was a blasphemy, but who sure learned to appreciate them in stop-start traffic jams, which were invented at the time, to sell automatic gearboxes Now that I have a complex life out in the Cyberbog, the last thing I need to do is go catch a goose, yank out a tail feather and sharpen it and make some ink to create my daily bread. That ain't fun to me. Only the writing -as some of you have noticed - is, I looove the Biro. HOWEVER, to make this thing work is not that difficult if approached a little differently. It is only in the separation of the cultures and understanding of the requirements - or goals of the other, that it does simplify. Natural Mechanics. Drivers. The money is with the Drivers. We outnumber the mechanics by the same ratio of auto mechanics to drivers. The whole computer system is just a tool, nothing more. It is useful only to contact Grandma cheaply, SPAM each other and write the great novel of the century. We just want to use it to go from A to B. The requirement is simple: AUTOMATE IT. Give us this day our daily GUI and deliver us from the Command Line. Four-wheel Drive and double-reduction 6-speed gearboxes are great - on an Army vehicle, they are useless to a normal user as the Urban equivalent. Dangerous in an accident, extremely expensive to maintain, uncomfortable and no longer impress anyone - they all have one too. We only need a system that works as far as possible on MINIMUM CHOICES. 3 Automatic gears are fine! We only need to do repetitive and simple things. Mandrake only has to focus on on one simple zone to really fill a giant vacuum: K.I.S. EVERYTHING on the Desktop. No Server option on install. No Multi-desktops - Gnome *or* KDE whichever is windowiest. An Email program - as close to O.E as possible. A REALLY good Wordprocessor - Doze-like interface (Star Office seems pretty close to workable now - except for font problems) THEN for later on, the AUTOMATIC updater/installer option - ON the Desktop! For MIGRANTS - ESCAPEES, REFUGEES : A DEFAULT install Trial Win4Lin. Mandrake is still a long way from an easy transition - transitions are NEVER easy, as whole habit patterns have to be burned out and replaced. Then there is the problem of expectation! Remember, that's how Bill became a Billionaire! Mandrake is about the level of W95 in
Re: [newbie] The differences in people and systems
Hi Judith folks, On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 03:58, you manipulated electrons to produce: I don't want to protract what is essentially an off-topic discussion for this list, so this will be it from me. Actually, this is right on topic for this list. It in fact, is allowing for some bridges to be built :-) I don't know what would give someone the impression that I was saying Windows is intuitive and Linux is not. I explicitly stated to the contrary. Also, it is ridiculous to dump on everything Windows does just because someone likes or prefers Linux. The Mac and Windows got some things right. No sense reinventing the wheel. Some years ago, in a consulting capacity to a strange Govenment Dept., I had a chance to test the Mac 4 people idea in the real world over several months. The Mac lost completely on three points: 1. It is not Sysadmin friendly. VERY difficult to do anything to make things easier for basic users. Hopeless at W.A.N. 2. Horrifically expensive comparatively. 3. Much longer learning curve than a Doze system properly setup! MOST fascinating of all was that those who knew about the friendly Mac had far less trouble learning to use it than those who were the true control group - knew nothing about computers at all. Thus proving dear old Dr Max Maltz's hypothesis that the expectation is the critical thing. AND the power of Advertising. After seeing an Apple Ad - I often want to rush out and buy one.. and I KNOW the things. :-) - I've been an activist in various causes for well over 40 years, and I can tell you that they've been bought off is the stock answer when mainstream media do not adopt the same line as the members of the cause. I think it's quite insulting to assume everyone who doesn't agree with you has been bought off somehow or just doesn't know any better. --Judy Miner ** Ahhh, the only problem here, Judy, is that *most* of the time it is true. :-) The way the System works is simple: 1. Our Owners are on top and intend to stay there. Less change is therefore better. 2. Money is the grease of all commerce. Not innovation, not style, just money. 3. It is entirely illogical to expect the Tobacco Companies to give up their income. It is only logical to offer them a better deal. Even licensing say, Marijuana/Heroin to them and giving them a partial monopoly on its distribution would be one way except then you upset the current drug cartels. It is a bit complicated. 4. Try writing an article that could even be conceived to possibly upset the main advertisers.. 5. Bought off? Sugar industry. Vaccinations. Fluoridation. Alternative fuels. Various War-things. Politics. M--osoft? (The reason a lot of people use code descriptions is because THAT company uses extensive datamining technology to keep the peasants in line. They are often just cautious people - or have a sense of humour. :-) -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] NOW: philosophy of the Newby book
Hi Tiny, On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:02, you manipulated electrons to produce: John, IMHO: you are spot-on with the intent and benevolence of your project. I have had to learn most of what I know from doccumentation, beginner to [self-described ;] expert... LOL I would love to help you in any way I can. As nearly a new immigrant to the Linux world, I have not yet been spoiled by intuitive knowlege... though I would love to get things done right. Thanks Tiny, the big need is for people who have survived the early days and can tell us about the things that caught them out - gotchas as I call them. The idea is not to produce YAM, but a guide book TO the Manuals. Little things like: x program takes up to a minute to get its act together and gives no indication what it is doing... be patient. Do NOT hit CTL+ALT+BSPACE Or The mysterious process of being able to enable the KDE Doc Search Engine. I REMEMBER bits of Fortran. What you needed was someone to give you a glossary of terms - THEN with those magic passwords you could go .. see? I forgot them. Like cron from Unix. This *is* NEWBY land, so post them here and I can pick them up on the way through as the answers come in and add the wisdom to the pile. Which BTW, seems to be gravitating toward a flat database with good search capability. It is going to have to be updatable every 20 minutes it would seem. The key solution guide to me is GUI unless impossible as the method. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] THat stuck message from Kmail - again.
Hi there and thanks for info, however: 1. fetchmail in all variants is command not found 2. kcron does start - comes up with multiple errors then KMail locks up ( loses all text, cannot be killed and requires reboot) I think now my Distro is seriously flawed. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Best browser for linux?
Hey Michael, Gee you must be OLD.. :-) On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:06, you manipulated electrons to produce: In fact Mozilla is one of the grandaddys of web browsers Nope; that was Mosaic. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Alternatives help like Win4Lin?
Hi Miark folks, On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 01:54, you manipulated electrons to produce: I've never tried voice recognition, so I don't know. I think there might have been something about it on this list too, but that was probably regarding Wine rather than Win4Lin. Good question. At any rate, it would be a problem only with _recording_ sound. Playing back sound works flawlessly. *** Have since been told officially: can not record via W4L. No plans to implement it either... ! :-( The only negative thing is having to trash my drives and reload everything again! I dual boot to Mandrake 8.0 and Win200. I didn't trash my Windows partitions when Installed Win4Lin. In fact, I've set it up to use my data files seamlessly between Windows and Win4Lin. Have been tryting to get to undersatand the W4L install, but small things like system trashing keep interrupting.. :-) My take was you had to virtually start with a clean system. So, you actually installed w4l into M8? Then added Win98 via it as a new install? AND kept all your data? BUT of course would lose all the installed programs? I've got gigabytes of programs. I thought all you had to do was install win4 on top of an existing Linux system that still had a Windoze partition (or two). That would be nice, but they're not there yet. Any Newby-type hints from the install process? One big tip, though: Win4Lin acts as an entirely different computer on your home network, so make certain to give it a different IP address than the Linux box you put it on. Were you on M8? Yes. What Doze ver? Dual boot to Win2000; Win4Lin ran Win98SE. ** I think I need a nice nap... It has been a confusing day. :-) -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] ATTENTION all newbies!
Hi Sridhar, On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:55, you manipulated electrons to produce: It _is_ a default. If you use Konqueror, you should be able to open a PDF file inside it.. Otherwise, you can install the xpdf (then run xpdf to execute) and/or ggv (then run ggv to execute) packages. -- I can *see* it in K, but there is no save option to it - even rc or in the Browser. Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Time to Quit the Install?
Hi Sridhar, On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:45, you manipulated electrons to produce: Actually, the price is about the same when you take into account the exchange rate (about $US1 = $A2 at present). THAT is the fiction of Foreign Exchange - don't get me started on that ! :-) Believe me, if you LIVE there and EARN there it is not relevant. 1. The machine EVEN runs W98SE with the only fault being the famous memory leak under heavy use. I can keep it going all day! Wow, that's amazing! I used to reboot several times a day! With GNU/Linux, I only reboot (and not out of necessity) once or twice a week (I keep my machine on all the time). Oh yes, Doze I KNOW. There are tricks - like keeping an old donkey moving better to get a horse. If you use the Ext2 filesystem (the default), the machine will execute a file system check (fsck) on bootup if you didn't shut down correctly. It will also issue a periodic checkup after a certain number of boots (I've forgotten how many). This is normal. * Well, we certainly aren't getting to shut down correctly. 2. On Logout, sometimes it offers a login alternative screen, sometimes it simply boots back into the default user - and continues the problem. That's odd -- things should be consistent here. I'm not sure about this one. ** I do have an auto login running, but it shouldn't be effective AFTER a logout, should it? 3. On Shutdown it reports numerous and seemingly increasing problems - particularly with both CDs and devices. What are the problems? Sometimes these are not problems at all (but then again, sometimes they are). * Too many to list readily. Scroll rate faster than I can recall. But, they are increasing. 4. PPP dies unexpectedly regularly. You mean you get disconnected from the Internet? This could be a problem with your ISP, or from being logged in for too long, or maybe from an idle connection. *** Can't tell for sure - it offers to run a log, then fails to do so. But only having the problem under Mandrake - no probs all day under Doze. 5. Kmail will suddenly whiteout and only a logout will help. This costs the loss of the display details of the KPPP. It is still connected, but no display of the fact is available. Turn off interval mail checking in KMail. Also, have you considered another client, like Evolution or Aethera, or maybe even Mozilla Mail? Wait for KDE 2.2 (due out on Aug 6). Maybe things will be fixed in there. Thought I'd wait for it - mail hassles in converting I don't need - only just finished cross-sending over two hundred as nothing translated them. 6. Intense Disk activity (thrashing in the Doze world) has caused lockup 3 times in 2 days. Always involving Kmail. (VERY frustrating to duplicate 100+ emails downloaded! ) Resolved by hitting cancel button on display saying ( each reboot) indexing. Try going to /home/username/Mail (after closing all instances of KMail) and delete all files with the extensions .sorted and .index. Now reload KMail. I find that this can often fix KMail errors. * Don't have any there. ( On startup not relog, a display of Gnome is searching for Trash bins also appears and has to be cancelled. It does not go away.) 7. A Gnome Desktop has appeared on Dtop 4 and is un-cancellable I assume you are using KDE? Have you tried logging out from GNOME? This should leave only KDE. When you exit from KDE, make sure that your session is saved (there's an option for this in the Control Centre). When you next log in, there should be no more GNOME. I'm actually not logged in to Gnome. There is no option to log out. On the Gnome screen the Taskbar is still KDE 8. Hitting the Kill option has no effect on the locked-up programs. In the now severe cases. the final event is reminescent of the B.S.O.D. of Doze. Only recourse is a reboot. In almost all cases, a reboot is unnecessary. Some apps don't die with an ordinary kill (e.g. as done through xkill). If you use an app like gtop (there are KDE equivalents, but I don't know them), you should have options to issue stronger kills than what is standard. Sometimes I find that this is necessary (although I do the same thing through a command line). ** With the severe lockup I don't have access to the keyboard any longer. For options beyond Kill - I haven't the knowhow yet. Before you reinstall, try using other environments besides KDE. I personally find GNOME/Sawfish (i.e. not loaded inside KDE) to be far more stable (in face, rock-solid) than KDE. Other users find that the opposite is the case for them. Try a few alternatives and see what works best. You may even begin to like them :-) ** Well, I would prefer not to do the whole thing again, but time is running out on me and it looks like a hybrid will be my only choice - Win4Lin - and
Re: [newbie] Time to Quit the Install?
Hi Erylon, No we don't allow flames here!! But you might have saved my sanity!! :-) Everyone else seems to have serious problems - like Networking Apples, their Grannie and their 4 totally incompatible clones of 386 vintage to run unattended! I was feeling very lonely .. On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:35, you manipulated electrons to produce: On Thursday 26 July 2001 15:26, John Rigby wrote: Hi folks, Well, I purchased the official M8 Powerbox ( to avoid any problems with install) - in Oz it costs twice the price of USA - $140 After two weeks of at least half a day every day - asking for and getting great support here, it seems time to call a halt O.K., I'll probably get flamed for this, but I, too, had multiple problems with version 8.0, across multiple installs. I know there are lots of people out there that have had no problems with 8.0, but I'm not one of them. eryl -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] THat stuck message from Kmail - again.
Hi Paul, No wonder I had no idea what you meant!!! :-) The only word that stuck out was cron and that from a warning to be very careful how you used it. some time ago I admit! Actually, I am involved in a project with the concept of making Mandrake accessible to the other 99% of the population. This means at least obtaining similar ease of access as Doze - vis: via a GUI. Linux *IS* fantastic -especially in workaround capabilty, but the black screen is no place for the person with no interest in pulling the engine apart only driving the thing from A to B. This is a bad fault in KDE, not like the lack of auto-adding respondent addresses, which is merely annoying, but along with the messy problems of getting the KDE Help Search Engine to work - probably THE most vital component of the whole suite - is going to lose a lot of people. So, again thanks for your help - I am posting a bit more of this info shortly on List as subject: Don't RTFM! On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:44, you manipulated electrons to produce: Leave interval checking off in kmail, then set up fetchmail as a cron job. When you need your mail fix, just retrieve it from local. Good luck! Paul -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] Time to Quit the Install?
Hi folks, Well, I purchased the official M8 Powerbox ( to avoid any problems with install) - in Oz it costs twice the price of USA - $140 After two weeks of at least half a day every day - asking for and getting great support here, it seems time to call a halt . The distro install is definitely deteorating - like my adrenalin reserves :-) I didn't have this many problems doing my first ever Concurrent-Dos Network twenty years ago, when my only expert quit suddenly and left me with the job. Side Note: I am an industrial psychologist. I NEVER tuned my own car :-). Possible causes: 1. Either it is my machine. 2. It is the Disks/Distro itself faulty. 3. My efforts at getting progs to work have broken it. 1. The machine EVEN runs W98SE with the only fault being the famous memory leak under heavy use. I can keep it going all day! 2. It seemed ok. Even though by accident of accepting all the defaults I could see, resulted in my installing a full Server version. It was very fast to get up and connect to the inet. 3. Till 48 hours ago, the problems seemed typical Newby. Where's the bathroom? Now, how do I flush? Then the neg reports/events began: As of this A.M.: 1. On startup many problems are reported - particularly relating to Disk Partitions. e.g. blocks 64 should be 8 -fixed(see 3) 2. On Logout, sometimes it offers a login alternative screen, sometimes it simply boots back into the default user - and continues the problem. 3. On Shutdown it reports numerous and seemingly increasing problems - particularly with both CDs and devices. 4. PPP dies unexpectedly regularly. 5. Kmail will suddenly whiteout and only a logout will help. This costs the loss of the display details of the KPPP. It is still connected, but no display of the fact is available. 6. Intense Disk activity (thrashing in the Doze world) has caused lockup 3 times in 2 days. Always involving Kmail. (VERY frustrating to duplicate 100+ emails downloaded! ) Resolved by hitting cancel button on display saying ( each reboot) indexing. ( On startup not relog, a display of Gnome is searching for Trash bins also appears and has to be cancelled. It does not go away.) 7. A Gnome Desktop has appeared on Dtop 4 and is un-cancellable 8. Hitting the Kill option has no effect on the locked-up programs. In the now severe cases. the final event is reminescent of the B.S.O.D. of Doze. Only recourse is a reboot. If it was a horse, I would put it down - it seems in great pain. :-) NOW: If I decide to start again, does this seem like: 1. Simple install interference? 2. Something broke? ( I have under advice hit the update button) 3. Only foreign body introduced was IBM's Websphere which brings Wine with it.. All others were part of the Distro. How would you suggest I re-install? 1. Uninstall 2. Delete entire partition. 3. Send away for new disks. ( Another week lost) Thanks again for all the fish folks, I promise that I'm trying to do my bit to come up with THAT Newby FAQ/Gotcha list. But I didn't expect to be the MAIN contributor :-) -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Fwd: Re: WinXP is better....My reply to this BS
Sridhar, I'm beginning to worry that you are becoming a cybical young fellow! New Rigby word - cybical adj., from old Amerenglish: cynical: meaning to think ii. molecular brain changes as a result of (a) exposure to too many (unofficial) other ideas (b) Radiation from the new idiot boxes :-) No gumnit of mine would do *that*!! (nah, surely not...) interactive parts, if any). One major reason why the government wants to cut off analogue television is so the spectrum it used will revert back to them. They can then sell it to somebody else and make $billions. Cheers, John -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] 1Ghz + 256 MB = Not Linux-Mandrake 8.0 DOWNLOADING IT??
Hi folks, Down near Antarctica where I live, I couldn't imagine being able to get a monster like M8 downloaded!!! In fact, my ISP would disconnect me - we are only allowed a max of 1.5 gig per month - and you get dumped after 60 mins without action and after 12 hours anyway... On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:07, you manipulated electrons to produce: Where did you get your copy of Mandrake from? I had that problem when I downloaded from an FTP site using Internet Explorer. I read that Internet Explorer corrupts huge FTP downloads. When I burned the iso of Mandrake into a CD, it was corrupted. Started the installation and it doesnt load up properly. I then redownloaded using a FTP program, reburned the CD and all my problems are solved. Hope this helps -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] Viruses.
Hi folks, Everybody except Linux Users has heard about SirCam a new EXTREMELY annoying virus. Seems a very popular one out there at moment - can send random giant file attachments ! Which brings me to the point: I don't border on - I AM paranoid in the Doze world - I executed the MEDIUM option of security on my M8 setup. Is there anything else advised at this stage? -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] How I Set up a Linux box with kids in mind (games)....
Yeh! Yeh! That's what we need!!! Right out of a box! On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:05, you manipulated electrons to produce: Yes, when you have all that power, you can make custom applications that give most of it up and are as close to monkey-proof as can be had in practice. Civileme -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Viruses. - Booting Doze
On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:09, you manipulated electrons to produce: snipped: In the Windos world, many of the most successful and most devastating virii have exploited old (often years old) security holes. Windos sysadmins, many of them incompetant (you would have to be if you use Windos), refuse to install security patches because it will require rebooting the system. In the *nix world, a reboot is only required if one wants to change the running kernel. *** In the Doze world, if it is running, running at all, you don't do nuthin', nuthin at all. It will stop soon enough of its own accord... -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] win4lin
Ha folks, This is not hidden somewhere in Powerpak 8 is it?? -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] THat stuck message from Kmail - again.
Hi there, On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:15, you manipulated electrons to produce: Leave interval checking off in kmail, then set up fetchmail as a cron job. When you need your mail fix, just retrieve it from local. ***Thanks, but I have no idea what you mean here! :-) THIS is a real Newby out here.. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] write permissions in gui.
Hi folks, With MY memory I NEED cutnpaste. Can't do it on Emacs. In M8 GUI how do we assign root/su permissions to a file like modules.conf? Esp. on a temp basis? -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Getting the basics going
Sridhar, On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:40, you manipulated electrons to produce: The best and easiest (it's entirely graphical!) way to give user access to a burner, IMHO, is to use userdrake to add your user to the cdwriter group. I got in couldn't see how to add a user/group gave up and went out and went back and now I can't access it at all. ERROR: cannot lock user lib file/etc/ptmp or etc/gtmp exist As for burning software, have your tried X-CD-Roast? * No another new one! :-) Burning software in GNU/Linux is currently designed for functionality rather than for user-friendliness. Once you're used to them (it shouldn't take long), they are very quick and easy to use. Apps like Roxio's Easy CD Creator may be easy for newbies, but they are also huge, bloated apps (Easy CD Creator 4 is about 70MB) that are actually _less_ functional than their nimble (Gcombust is about 700KB) *nix counterparts. For example, my Iomega ZipCD drive (32x read, 8x write, 4x rewrite) can burn at a maximum of 2x in Windos 98 and 2000 using both Easy CD Creator (which came with the drive) and Nero 5. In GNU/Linux, using frontends to cdrecord like Gcombust, X-CD-Roast and Gtoaster, I can burn at a full 8x without errors. ** That would be nice. I make an awful lot of coasters under Doze. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Alternatives help like Win4Lin?
Hi Miark, Thanks for the summary. I seem to recall someone saying that it has problems with sound - I think it was from a Voice Recognition list - ? Your time is money theme is apt! My problem is really only in not wasting money. Win4 seems the clear winner all round. The only negative thing is having to trash my drives and reload everything again! I've got gigabytes of programs. I thought all you had to do was install win4 on top of an existing Linux system that still had a Windoze partition (or two). Any Newby-type hints from the install process? Were you on M8? What Doze ver? Did you d/l the win4 or buy a box? On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 03:03, you manipulated electrons to produce: I use Win4Lin. * It's a good price. * It's run all software so far. * You can configure drives however you want. I, for instance have it use FAT32 partition from my real Winsux installation, plus Reiser partitions. * It does real MS$ networking, including sharing of devices. * I haven't installed the printer yet, but I know you can install normal Windows print drivers, and anything else on the parallel port such as scanners. * It's stable. It rarely crashes, and when it does, I'm up again in about 10 seconds. My view is time is money and there's no way to escape the fact that _all_ solutions cost something significant. I just happen to be more willing to pay money than I was time, which all the free solutions cost. Miark -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Fwd: Re: WinXP is better....My reply to this BS
Hi Civileme, On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:49, you manipulated electrons to produce: OK, First, the Microsoft Product Activation is a _requirement_ for winXP or it stops working after 30 days (10 in some circumstances). Corporate licenses have other arrangements. Product activation does _not_ reveal your hardware to microsoft, so they claim at their website. What they describe is a hashing algorithm that makes it easy to detect changes but also makes a non-unique key. Can we end this thread here? I'd rather be positive about linux any day and fight necromancers with disbelief. * Oh, ya spoiled a lot of the excitement, now... :-) ** THEN how about this lot! A great idea unless.. it falls into the worng hands :-) We also have a reportng mechanism that snapshots your computer. It will likely be in next release. Of course the source is available so people can examine how it functions. Its purpose is different-- Civileme -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] NOW: philosophy of the Newby book
Hi Skinky, On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:04, you manipulated electrons to produce: Hi John I agree with Miark. Also, as Sridhar said, I don't think Ed meant any harm. He merely pointed out something you/we need to be aware of. Don't be too quick to judge. Lighten up a little :-) Keep up the good work with your book and good luck. ** My life is all light! Except for my M8 install... :-) There is an old (True) Alchemic saying: Everything is a reflection. Judge and be judged, but, observe and and be rewarded It roughly means YOU set up your terms of interaction. That's what I do and did. No judgement, just observation based on looong experience of identifying ducks. Ed is very welcome to his beliefs. He made them very clear, if you recall the structure of his post. Very clear. So far the voting is actually 25% defending his position of non-contribution freely. But now, I think we should end it. It is getting way off topic and was not really worth the time and electrons manipulated and expended to date. He has a specific view - I respected it. Don't agree with his concept or presentation of it, but I don't have to. So I didn't. I complied with his request fully, that's all. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Alternatives help like Win4Lin?
Hi Sridhar, Thanks for all that! On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:22, you manipulated electrons to produce: Apps like IBM WebSphere HomePage Builder and WordPerfect are direct ports (i.e. the source code was modified to work well in Wine) to GNU/Linux. They are not simply Windos binary apps running through Wine. This is why they run so (well, sorta...) well compared to Windos apps in Wine. Aha! recently posted a rather lengthy diatribe about why M$ apps will not work in Wine. If you need a copy I can send it to you. ** Thanks - I'll just take the advice! :-) I wouldn't use Plex86 just yet. It _does_ show promise, but at present it is still buggy and slow. MandrakeSoft sponsor its development, so hopefully it should be usable soon. DirectX support is currently not very good, but I've managed to get a few DirectX games going. CD-burning is not supported in the current release. But, I take it by simply going back to your Mandrake you can use a CDW under it? Which Prog do you use? . Win4Lin is less taxing on systems than VMware, and is much faster. Like VMware, its current support for certain functions like DirectX and games are not very good. Well, the last things I need are games - I'm outtta time alla time as it is! You can get IBM ViaVoice for GNU/Linux: http://www-4.ibm.com/software/speech/linux/dictation.html I believe that Mandrake includes it in their PowerPack. Yes I have it in Powerpak 8 but no sound! If you are sure that you have done everything you can to get your sound working, perhaps you should look into buying a new sound card. Cheap sound boards can cost well under $A50, and a Sound Blaster Live! usually costs about $A100. * Well, that's the odd part. The system knows what my card is. And the next problem would be as to what card MIGHT work - listers seem to complain a lot about cards - even listed ones. Yamaha have a good rep with Dictation Users, but... I NEED either FrontPage 2000 or the Windoze version of Websphere at least. - the Linux/wine version is too cut down and painfully slow. The GNU ones are too stripped down no extras. As I mentioned above, M$ apps do not (and probably never will) work in WINE. You would need something like VMware or Win4Lin to use it. However, I must ask why you're using FrontPage. The HTML it generates is not standards-compliant, and is designed work best in IE (this is deliberate). If you design a website with FrontPage don't expect it to be viewable in other browsers (especially the *nix ones). Well in the harsh world, I never worried - 90% of all the prospects use I.E.:-) You have mentioned elsewhere that SCREEM is crash-prone. Have you tried Quanta+, Bluefish, Mozilla Composer and Amaya? Amaya is great to use in conjunction with other HTML creators, since it generates 100% standards-compliant code (it's made by the W3C). Not Amaya. Never heard of it till today. I sometimes make a page in StarOffice (which is pretty-good with HTML) and then make minor adjustments in Amaya to make it standards-compliant. * STAR OFFICE!!?? I must check it out, then. But what I miss are the simple things of life, like packaged so-easy-to-use templates and built-in scripts I NEED decent onscreen fonts - I work loong hours on the screen. The two best things I can suggest here is to import your Windos TrueType fonts and use them in apps with anti-aliasing (font smoothing for Windos users). All QT2 apps (e.g. anything KDE) has the potential to use anti-aliasing. Have you tried KOffice? KOffice Beta 3 was released about a month ago -- it is supposed to be very good. It may not have all the features of StarOffice, OpenOffice (BTW, a new OpenOffice build was released a few days ago) or M$ Word quite yet, but it has been said that most people only use 5% of the features of these huge office suites. KOffice has all the basics in place. *** QT2? Is it a setup procedure to get them to anti-alias? Also I have imported my Doze fonts but SOffice can't find them - or other things for that matter . I NEED GOOD printer output. IIRC, Lexmark has its own drivers and software for their printers. Have you tried the Lexmark web site? LinuxPrinting.org has an entry for your Lexmark Z32: http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=317129 * Yes, I d/ldd the drivers but can't figure out how to get Star or default to use them. Normal procedure via Drake doesn't seem to take. Unless the Linux drivers are much, much poorer than the Dozers implementation. Try searching MandrakeForum.com for anything by Till Kamppeter (Mandrake's resident printing genius :-) ): http://mandrakeforum.com/search.php?query=type=storiessection=to pic=author=Tilldays=0sort=ts.time I NEED a Scanner I don't know much about GNU/Linux and scanners (I don't have one), but I know
[newbie] About the Great Escape Book/4
Hi folks, My OWN experiences are going to be worth a book they way they are going! :-) But somebody just off-list mailed me with a problem installing IBM's Websphere Page Builder. Everything SEEMED ok on the install but then it didn't work. Actually he got further than me - he was using a C-line to start it. SOLUTION: It is just so slow to startup that it SEEMS like a hangup. Just wait around for the splash screen, and wait and wait... My first contribution! :-) Would you please send in your gotchas no matter how simple. I am collecting things off the list constantly, but you can feel free to send them directly to me as subject line ONE FOR THE BOOK if you are too embarrassed - we'll make them anonymous! :-) I now see that it needs to be also NEW newby aware as well as Windoze User aware. The only sane way to do it I can see, is going to be as a free-form database with a glossary in front - one for Dozers like me and one for NEW Newbies. Then fill it up! Happy story: I mentioned my switch to Linux to a neighbour who's visiting mother piped in to the conversation: That's what I have in Sydney. Turned out her friends grandson installed Redhat and StarOffice etc... on a pc he made up for her. THEN she said she tried to use her son's one up here, but it is just too complicated. Guess what he runs??? She couldn't even remember the name. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] NOW: philosophy of the Newby book
Hi Jamie On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:49, you manipulated electrons to produce: I fully agree, his response was not necessary, also on my filter list. Allthough i doubt a little the use of your book, please feel free to include any of my newbie banter G I was once asked years ago, how come our company could design training systems that worked in impossible situations. Answer: 1. I was raised and began my career in Australia. That is like being marooned on a desert island with a candle, a bell and a book and nothing else.. you learn to improvise fast, or die. :-) 2. NEVER let system or product experts write anything by way of instruction, only product explanation. I once learned to be an Aluminium Welder by having to produce a manual for use in Third World Countries. Concept: If *I* can understand it, anyone can. :-) Epilogue: THIS booklet will be what *I* would have given a lot to have two weeks ago. Or today... (sigh) :-) -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] Mandrake going public......... not really off topic :-)
Hi folks, The need for caution is great when a company moves away from dockside into the deep sea. It is full of sharks who make their living precisely from the salmon-run as the rushes of companies to float happens every Spring. :-) A mandatory tale to research is that of a nice fellow and near genius in his own field, who started a very strange free-world org called ARSGRATIA - a lovely thing. THEY ATE HIM. http://philip.greenspun.com One of the things that Newbies in the international world of Big Money never learn, is that the Sharks ONLY make their money when they take over control of the company through their sucker bait. In Big Business it is not like the real world where the nice folk massively do outnumber the baddies, in Big Biz it is precisely the reverse. ( Said the old, and out-of-it ex-servant of the powerful... and fell back into a Doze.. :-) ) -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Boot managers
Hello Steve, You must be new here! Have a read of the archives - esp anything with my name in it. On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:47, you manipulated electrons to produce: Um are you allowed to use this list for reference material for what I assume is a commerical book? -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] Getting the basics going
Hi folks, I went and put my 2 cents worth on the Forum: How to move mandrake along.. hot subject, eh? In catching up with the support pleas here, I've noticed a distinct non-recognition by people of their own status! Some of the self-proclaimed Newbies only talk in acronyms and I can't even read their question, much less see an answer! :-) Please REAL Newbies, pass on to me the gotchas that baffled you when you tried to start up - no matter how simple they seem when looking back! How did you fix it? I hope to get a subsidiary Site up soon with a collaboration program to make it easy. So here I am back in Nursery Class: 1. I get pointed to all sorts of things, but the destructions might just as well be in Yuvan ( obscure Central Asian Dialect) . 2. I want to use the GUI wherever possible - especially as I expect to have to teach a lot of TOTALLY NEW (Nursery-level) people how to drive Mandrake, through another project I'm on. -- Growth will not be possible in any meaningful way while Mandrake tries to be all things to all people in one Distro family. Just like on this list. We go from Newbies, only trying to install a complex network to run an international Bank/Gambling centre - to me. Just trying to get on the Net, write a letter, dictate a memo/karioke(?) back up a dir, play with some html design. We really do need a Nursery Distro: VERY limited in options, designed only to include proven programs to: 1. Hit the Net 2. Write a Letter. 3. Play some music 4. Do the Home Accounts 5. Auto upgrade/official install program THAT's ALL - AND NO MENTION OF COMMAND LINE ANYTHINGS! ( A big thing is a current list of known compatible bits/drivers) Thank heavens we have so many people on here from the experts who talk in code to the fellow starters who willingly put in their personal experiences. THANK YOU! By the time *I* get my Mandrake up and going, we should have a nice little E-book ready for the next lot. Just in time to become irrelevant due to *all* the fixes in the next one.. :-} MY OWN LIST OF KNOWN PROBLEMS 1. Cannot get my ALS4000 Sound Card to go. ( M8 Even identified it) No help on the Avance Site. 2. Cannot get my new Linux Ready Lexmark Z32 Printer to work properly with Star. Cannot get it to accept new drivers./new printer. 3. Cannot figure out how to operate CDRW Writer! ( M8 knows it's there, but I'm only allowed one CD - I have 2, both identified) 4. Star Office - seems potentially great. Lousy basic fonts, won't upgrade/use my Windows ones. ( Did get complex info on converting them - but would be way beyond a normal nursery level user) 5. Scanner. Canoscan N340P. Even have a the info from the Net on a fix. Have no idea what the destructions really mean. 6. Frustrating Utilities. Like KDE Search weirdo. Docs not outsider friendly. 7. Crashing of supplied programs like SCREEM - makes a real mess. GOOD THINGS: __ 1. Much faster Modemming. 2. No Dozing off (BSOD) 3. Dead simple install - EXCEPT default is for Server too.. 4. Gnome put all the Windoze Drives on the Desktop - complete with icons! 5. Terrific friendly support. No flaming by smartass one-step-in-fronters. -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] Alternatives help like Win4Lin?
Hi folks, This may seem like blasphemy, but might also be a sane solution for those who try it and it just won't go... It appears I can either: 1. Spend untold time hoping for a fix ( a week spent looking so far!) 2. Buy a lot of new stuff ( what do I do with the old?) 3. Quit and go back ( not an option!! :-) ) 4. Compromise... Win4Lin or VM or WINE or XP86 whatever it is. The most logical move financially and timewise seems Win4Lin or similar. Anyone with handson experience of any of the above I would appreciate your help. WINE is free. Can't get any sense out of it as far as applications etc go - except I just found that it is what runs Websphere on Linux!! ( I have it) Have no idea how to test it or run progs under it. XP86/BOSH . Not able to comprehend it either, Civileme says it has promise, but I could not find out anything usable about it on its Site. Also Free. No idea how to run/test it either VM is dearest by miles. Not sure of this one - seems to be similar in CPU demand to Windoze . Win4Lin is around $80. Seems to be a simple gui install.Claims to do everything one could need - IF stuck with Windows apps. I apparently am. I NEED Voice Dictation. Am going nutz fighting M8 without it now. M8 wont talk to my Sound. I NEED either FrontPage 2000 or the Windoze version of Websphere at least. - the Linux/wine version is too cut down and painfully slow. The GNU ones are too stripped down no extras. I NEED decent onscreen fonts - I work loong hours on the screen. I NEED GOOD printer output. I NEED a Scanner -- Cheers, John http://counter.li.org GO HERE IF YOU SUPPORT LINUX! Fablor is now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Those little things......... REAL Beginner stuff
Hi Civileme, Arghhh Big Bill STILL has me! I kept doing C+A+del !! THIS went into the Newby book under EScaping Big Bill However, the other weirdos are still a problem. For Newbies it is difficult to locate things by name. ( Same as Doze, but I KNOW Doze :-) ) I hope the Kmail thing is a fixed bug in 2.2. Cheers, John The Gnome screen has no access to any files/applications from the desktop. If anyone happens to notice this now: 1. I would like to know how to kill Gnome from a terminal AFTER I restart KDE. How do I do that from a Terminal? 2. Is anyone having trouble with K-Mail doing screen nasties? It will sometimes announce in the middle of the display screen that it has sent the queued files. Then it will die, leaving a greyed out box on top of all the other applications on all the other screens. Occasionally the whole Mail thing dies the same way but is at least, closable after some vigorous clicking around from the kill switch to the close in th Task Bar. Try ctrl-alt-backspace Civileme -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] NOW: philosophy of the Newby book
Hi Roman folks, Actually the whole point of the project I envisaged from Day One was to AVOID the consequences of too many choices ( philosophically, choices=conflicts) and to help the BASIC USER community not the even the ADVANCED USERS - they LIKE being annoyed! :-) In fact, it is germinating into a two part construct: 1. ABSOLUTELY New Users (first computer) 2. TRANSITIONAL Users. Those escaping The Other Thing. But remember, it is specific to Mandrake. One must call a halt somewhere. Even Mandrakes earlier Distros have problems with later ones. AND - most computer users 95% of them out there have no idea that there is anything else other than Doze and the idea that there are many different Versions even of it .. Comments below * On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 01:58, you manipulated electrons to produce: Hi John, I don't think newbies should always stick with a strict code of what to do and what not to do or learn. This stifles the learning process. * There is only one way to learn to read. Very limited and non-confusing choices as first. ( Running words together comes much later) Otherwise the learning curve and worse, the frustration curve increases exponentially. -- Remember Microsoft? Linux gives you the freedom to learn about new apps., features and coding. And, if you don't like something, you have the option of modifying the code. Those newbies that venture into the unknown can learn a lot. ** Modifying the Code Users like me - the other 90% don't want to do our own oilchanges and tuneups - we look for a reliable mechanic - and get on with what we are good at, instead. :-) Ofcourse, you can stick with the basics and include additional notes on configuring tar balls. There are large number of applications that must be configured first, followed by make and make install. BASICS?? Dear Roman, unless it works automatically thru the Mandrake installer, the rest of us won't be getting stuck in any tar pits. We only want to DO things with the programs. Write great novels, pay the bills, talk sex on the internet safely, figure out our accounts - and most critically - make a buck out there. somehow. Did you know for instance, that there is a would-be commercial Website out there for every eight surfers? I think this should be added to the book. Newbies will be encountering this more often than not. Additional notes can be appended by the user or posted on Mandrakeforum. Many of the rpms included with the Mandrake distribution were created by or for Mandrake. In addition, over the next several months additional rpms and apps will be added to the list, by way of CD distribution, or free download. However, I question creating a newbie list that must be moderated, with questions and comments censored for all users. ** pregnantcisely. This whole idea is to *more adequately* cover the narrower field of Mandrake - a big enough job in itself! Even censorship is a much misused and misunderstood thing. It has two sides: 1. Someone going to the trouble to categorise things - like movie ratings. 2. Denial of access. I really appreciate people going to a lot of trouble to categorise things to save me a lot of time lost. For parents it is a godsend: movie certification. EXCEPT that they warn against things like nudity and ok things like driving an auto at 100 m.p.h. in city streets and slaughtering people. :-( DENIAL, on the other hand, i object to greatly. The wonder of the internet is that you - for the most part - can find your interest and your level of it readily. I even object to objections to pornography - providing it is censored in the sense that I am not tricked into viewing it, but it is a CATEGORY and simply available. Everything you propose as having available IS available, Roman, what isn't available is the sort of thing that is most necessary of all: a K.I.S.S. *introduction* - a gentle one - to the vast majority of people out there who really do *only* want to use programs as tools and not for the excitement of being able to *eventually* get it to work, somehow. :-) But we really need both the pros like Civileme and Sridhar who volunteer their help and the super-users like you. Then we need me to translate it into understandable and usable form for the utter non-geeks like me. It takes one to know one, you know. :-) -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Boot managers
Hi there Stan folks, As a real Newbie myself, might I add this? When asking for help, nominate at least the distribution details of your system. The official Mandrake Versions - latest 8 have MANY options out there from raw downloadable bits and pieces to build your own, (free) halfway there cheap disk sets for a few bucks and then there are the store-bought or boxed types. Mandrake itself offers various need level boxes and the POWERPAK seems to be the only sane thing to do if you aren't at least 2/3 geek. :-) Don't forget to pay the list back by contributing to the Newbie book I am compiling. On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:24, you manipulated electrons to produce: Greetings all... This is my first post to this group, and I am a newbie in every sense of the word. I've just installed Mandrake onto a second drive, (the 'D' drive, which is primary slave), and since lilo is installed here as well, I can't boot to Linux. -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Of M$ attacks
Hey Civileme folks, Civileme, did you mean attic or arctic ?? :-) There is nowhere on earth that is safe. But for what it's worth people, all of this is simple, grade One, everyday business tactics. Despite how you feel about Big Bill, he did one great thing for this planet: He proved that you can get filthy rich - I mean FILTHY rich - without cornering the Wheat Market and starving families to death, or starting a good war to goose up the profits. Whatever is said about him he doesn't force anyone to do anything. Think about Genetically Modified Foods. Think about forced fluoridation of water supplies. Think about forced hah! - immunisation campaigns. No, Big Bill is very annoying for his selling success, but he doesn't kill people without warning, or choice. Remember - we get exactly the government ( Multinational, NWO) we paid for. We buy their products with our cash, inaction and silence. On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 03:16, you manipulated electrons to produce: On Saturday 21 July 2001 21:24, Robert wrote: I tend to disagreeevery MS users needs to know this. rob Interesting and frightening. The mos frightening is their sharred source Initiative. If unwary open source coders sign up for a peek at the microsoft software, thereafter the companies they work for don't dare use them on open-source projects, because they'll be hauled into court for stealing microsoft ideas. It doesn't matter if the claim is utter crap--Microsoft can afford to keep them in court longer than they can affiord to stay. This reminds me of IBM tactics about 1977 or so. They poison the opposition's workers. It doesn't matter that we aren't about competing with them, they see us as a threat to be crushed. I am beginning to believe I should have stayed in the arctic. Civileme -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] NOW: philosophy of the Newby book
Roman, Have you looked at TWIKI? I am trying to find time to do it, but I actually have to make a living unlike all you rich guys who have all day to play with exotic programs :-) http://www.twiki.org It looks like a great collaboration solution and I am planning to get it up on the fablor Site a.s.a.p. Many hands make heavy work light Cheers, John On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:27, you manipulated electrons to produce: Hi John, No problem. The K.I.S.S approach is the best. I have a pleasant feeling this will turn into fine book for first time users of Mandrake only distros. We should find additional people that would like to contribute and divide up the work. What are your thoughts? -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] stylesheet and pages
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:39, you manipulated electrons to produce: You probably just need to change the font settings (font selection size) in Netscape and Konqueror. All the browsers should implement the HTML properly (except maybe IE), but some browsers will render the page on a smaller scale than others. On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:08, L.V.Gandhi wrote: ** Yes, but using fancy fonts you are assuming that the Client machine has the same fonts available, aren't you? My trick was always to create a gif if it simply HAD to that different, to g'tee a display. -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] NOW: AND Appreciation
Hi Michael and folks, Oh - this wasn't meant to be a List Of Appreciation, I simply used these two people as examples. Of course there is yourself and many others - I didn't mention -even Roman who is enthusiastically helping in this small but ambitious project. In the preface to the Esacape Book I am writing a piece very pointedly to the effect that without the thousands of good neighbours out there, the Geeks who patiently helped the non-Geeks through such simple things as the TCP/IP MANUAL SETUP processes etc., the PC would still be in Uni's. I personally go back so far in time that I was one of the earliest international FIDO Hosts. ( I wasn't a Geek - I supplied the machine, the phone line and the money to a Geek who used to work all day in my business and then work all night trying to keep FIDO up. ) It stopped me becoming a manic-depressive cynic as I learned the ropes of the business world. :-) - On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:30, you manipulated electrons to produce: But we really need both the pros like Civileme and Sridhar who volunteer their help and the super-users like you. You are leaving off quite a few people here...I mean there are people other than civilme and sridhar that do contribute time to the list. For example, I know I haven't posted as often as those two, but I've still posted to the list 133 times--not bad considering some days I get 100-200 e-mails to go through to this account, let alone my own personal accounts. -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Fwd: New column
Hi Randy, On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:54, you manipulated electrons to produce: -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: New column Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:18:03 -0400 From: Randy Donohoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm writing to ask your help in evaluating a column I'm considering submitting to some sites and newspapers. The column is called The Curve, and is basically a tutorial on Linux for the raw beginner. There's help for the beginner out there now, but it's so fragmented it's frustrating at best. If you don't live near a college that teaches Linux, have friends running it, or have a LUG in your area the learning curve is a nasty one. --- Here on [EMAIL PROTECTED] we are grappling with that vexing thing and you might find it interesting to look over the archives here. anything with my name in it is part of it - :-) I am actually a semi-retired teaching technology specialist and the points made, you might find interesting as to why you and everyone else are so frustrated... it's all about focus and limiting options. -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] Those little things......... REAL Beginner stuff
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:26, you manipulated electrons to produce: The same is true of KDE! Miark Well, *I* couldn't at the time! Was driving me nutz! :-) Nobody has answered the other questions tho. WE really need a common troubleshooting FAQ for M8 I am trying to build it up from the List, but I censor them by: if *I* don't understand it, what hope has a New Newbie. :-) -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
Re: [newbie] STAR OFFICE FONTS - NOW: OPEN OFFICE - Any users?
Hi folks, Any brave ones using Open Office out there, yet? Which brings up a further point: Some of our Newbies on this list are really brave. What they are doing playing with advanced stuff when they are asking questions even *I* can answer... The Escape E-Book I think will really have to stick to official programs. Even more, maybe to those on the Mandrake approved list. Thoughts, folks?? ( I actually had to announce that the old Users Society I was Pres of many years ago would no longer support anything pre PC/MS DOS CP/M and definitely not Apples! 70% of all problem calls came from Apple users in one sister mixed group - you know the easy one to use? - and people kept coming up with the strangest machines in ours! We simply had to decide to support only mainstream on-sale products and setup a vintage club for the few who generated most of the work! :-) -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
[newbie] Those little things......... REAL Beginner stuff
Hi folks, I am sitting here in front of a sortof Gnome Desk Manager. Do not know how it got here in the first place and was only trying to close/kill it. Instead it trashed my KDE Taskbar. Alt+Tab just shows the foot and Konq Browser - still active to the Net. Thus, I was able to go to a Site known to have an emailer on it and execute my KDE Email Compose screen to send this. The Gnome screen has no access to any files/applications from the desktop. If anyone happens to notice this now: 1. I would like to know how to kill Gnome from a terminal AFTER I restart KDE. How do I do that from a Terminal? 2. Is anyone having trouble with K-Mail doing screen nasties? It will sometimes announce in the middle of the display screen that it has sent the queued files. Then it will die, leaving a greyed out box on top of all the other applications on all the other screens. Occasionally the whole Mail thing dies the same way but is at least, closable after some vigorous clicking around from the kill switch to the close in th Task Bar. -- Cheers, John Fablor now Webhosting?? What on earth for?? Info here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (it's only an Autoresponder) :-)
