EV digest 4034

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

e that and I got into voltage conversion, how things were 
done before semiconductors etc. Led to one of the better discussions we have 
had in some time.

David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque

What a great tool to have on my service truck, this little green box! It's 
compact and
light weight, it's flexible to where it can run off 120 vac or 240 vac, 
it's flexible to
where it can charge  pretty much any battery I might run across, and it's 
capable of
fairly high DC output levels. Things tend to get beat up in their life 
aboard a forklift
service truck though, so it's back onto the clean shelf in my EV shop 
where ti can keep
the Zombie properly fed.

See Ya.John Wayland
--- End Message ---
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Scott, Are you looking for some type of electric actuator? I don't know if 
this will help but I do a bit with aircraft salvage and I have quite a few 
electro/mechanical actuators in AR and Rebuilt yellow tagged cond and in 
sizes ranging from 10-12" long Lear trim tab linears to flutter dampers from 
Vertols (Chinook) and Sikorsky Sky Cranes. I also have cable/drum rotary 
type trim actuators as well. Biggest problem is I don't have a lot of specs 
on them, mostly they have pinout diagrams on the type tag but beyond that 
most of the guys that I sell them to know what they are looking for. If you 
can give me a better idea of just what you are looking for/doing I will dig 
around the Junqueyard for something that will work.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque

- Original Message - 
From: "SCOTT O'QUINN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 9:48 AM
Subject: INDUSTRIAL REMOTE CONTROL SYS


 Has anyone on the list had any experience with remote control equipment ?
 we are trying to modify a smell piece of equipment to run remotely with a
CATTRON controller but we can't come up with controller actuator setup to
control the hyd .   ANY help would be appreciated .
SCOTT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Think our government doesn't ban things?  Try importing a production EV
>from Europe, such as a Pugeot 101 Electric, or Citreon Saxo Electric or a
>Renault electric pickup (pardon my spelling). Can't be done.  The US
>Government bans these vehicles in this country.

 They're not banned because they're electric; they're banned because 
they're foreign. Try importing an R32 Skyline sedan or an Isuzu diesel 
D-Max pickup and see how far you get, then thank the DOT and EPA for their
onerous crash and emission standards.

David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

Chip Gribben wrote:

> I still think there is some relevant political information that
> should be posted on the EVDL. Not necessarily biased opinions but factual
> information such as the State of Maine considering an EV mandate, as an
> example. This is newsworthy information we should all know about it.
> Also, if some politician, talkshow host or celebrity praises or slams EVs we
> should know about itif the info is reported according to the facts I 
> would like to
> know about it so
> I can write a letter to the editor or whatever.

I, and I think most everyone else, agrees with this. It's the angry hate type 
diatribes
that don't belong here. Bringing to light any talk show host's or newspaper's  
EV bashing
is a good example of what Chip is talking about.  Bringing up Oregon's double 
fee
registration on hybrids and EVs as I did a while back, GM's crushing of the 
EV1's, Ford's
Th!nk situation, are also in sync with this concept.

It should be obvious, that these are not:

> I'm not so sure he should
> leave Bush alone yet thoughprove beyond any doubt that it's perfectly OK 
> to be an
> evil, murderous, thieving despot, as long as you play nice and make your vast 
> oil
> reserves available to the US.

> Govt consperesy here? Of course they will go off in a
> tirade over the last prez #$%^&!  NOBODY here voted for "W"around here in
> CT. Watched "Farenheit 911" again, on DVD . God HELP America.

No one wants to sanitize the EVDL to where it's just dull techno-info, but at 
the same
time, no one wants to open his email only to find a seemingly never ending 
administration
bashing, social ills commentary, anti war propaganda, hyper enviro cataclysmic 
hand
wringing, etc., etc.

The above stated, I was glad to hear about the Limbaugh comments and have taken 
action.

See YaJohn Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 4) Has anyone had experience with ditching the torque converter on
> planetary or automatic transmission? >
>   --Christoph

EV digest 4035

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

ary, anti war propaganda, hyper enviro cataclysmic 
hand
wringing, etc., etc.
The above stated, I was glad to hear about the Limbaugh comments and have taken 
action.
See YaJohn Wayland
 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil wrote:
>Each box of batteries will have a fuse in the middle of that pack.  I'll 
>also have smaller fuses ( KLK - types) for every other high-voltage line 
>from the pack ( pre-charge relay, DC-DC, heater, instrumentation, etc)
>
>It seems to me that covers it.  It there anything else I need safety-wise?

It sounds like you have it covered.

Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know the amp rating on the Curtis/Albright SW-192 reversing 
set?  A couple were given to me in a box of parts.  They seem a bit 
small for EV duty, but I'd love to use them to do electric reverse on my 
Z1k 180VDC MR2.  They might be ok given that average current on the MR2 
is pretty low (rarely more than 250 battery amps in normal driving) and 
they would never be switching under load.

Thanks
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It has been a while since I have updated my web site - I have been busy
working on my EV.  So I spent this morning getting it all up to date:
 
 
* rear battery boxes installed with heaters
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryBoxConstruction.html

* vacuum system installed
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_VacuumSystem.html

* PFC charger purchased and installed
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_ChargerPFC30.html

* batteries selected an ordered
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatterySelection.html

* and, FINALLY the adapter plate has been finished (after 4 months in the
machine shop) - and the drive has been installed.
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_AdapterPlate.html
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_EngineMount.html


Take a look - all feedback is appreciated!

Don

Victoria, BC, Canada
 
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/

 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No. You need a resistor, variac, inductor, capacitor bank, or some other
current control method. They only turn on or turn off based on the pack
voltage. They do not limit the current.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:27 AM
Subject: Flexcharging NiCad. Smarts a bad boy doesn't have.


> Seems this Controller could take the bad boy output and civilize it.Am
I
> hoping for too much.  These guys are near Lee Hart.  Lee got your ears on.
> Lawrence Rhodes
>
> Our charge control will work with most sources as long as it is within
> the amperage range of the controller.  An NCHC60/48 would be a 60 amp
> max. 48 volt controller.  The price is $233.00 plus freight of $10.00 or
> less.  The controller will let the battery voltage of ( in your case) 40
> cells, rise to 62 volts and then turn off and let the voltage drop to
> about 55 volts and turn back on again.  We don't regulate the incoming
> voltage or amperage but watch the battery voltage very close.  Even
> though you are monitoring only 40 cells you can pass a higher voltage
> through the switching contactor so you are able to charge any number of
> cells you want to up to the capacity of your charge source.  Flooded
> cell NiCad's can usually be charged by voltage monitoring with no
> problem.  Dry sealed NiCad's are a completely different story and our
> control will not work on them.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web Site www.flexcharge.com
>
>
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Harrier147: 
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=13&t=1495&s=375c072093e37e15d88b2f01634591b4
Harrier147: 
Harrier147: 
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=13&t=1493&s=375c072093e37e15d88b2f01634591b4
Harrier147: 
Harrier147: 
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?s=375c072093e37e15d88b2f01634591b4&act=ST&f=13&t=1105&st=30
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* vacuum system installed
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_VacuumSystem.html
This brings to mind...is there any reason you couldn't hide the vacuum 
pump *inside* a vacuum reservoir? If you muffled the output and 
isolated it mechanically, the vacuum itself should help quiet things 
down a bit.

-Fr

EV digest 4036

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

l be fine. While the odd smokey burnout 
would
be fun, don't really need to. I am driving a Bronco II which is made by 
Ford not Ferrari
so I'm used to somewhat glacial acceleration ;-]

I'm hoping for 50-75 miles range plus. This is going to be at city speeds ie 30
not highway. The farther the better of course.
Now as far as I understand going to  a higher volt pack would give me a 
higher top
end. Using a paralleled pack should give me better acceleration from more 
available
amps or longer range.

Any suggestions on a better battery pack setup for better range verse speed or
acceleration? I can't see there being a do all setup but what is the best 
compromise.

Thanks
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can import them for private use; hassle but doable.
You cannot import them as a dealer to re-sale.
Victor

David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 16 Jan 2005 at 19:05, Dave Davidson wrote:

Try importing a production EV
from Europe, such as a Pugeot 101 Electric, or Citreon Saxo Electric or a
Renault electric pickup (pardon my spelling). Can't be done. 

It's certainly difficult, but I'm not so sure about "can't."  A member of the 
Eastern Electric Vehicle Club in PA quite some years ago imported a Kewet 
for his own use.  I don't know what the process was, but he was successful.  

I'm fairly sure that he had to agree never to sell it.  When he decided he was 
finished with it, he donated it to a museum.  

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is their method good?  They say they have charged NiCad packs before and 
know the difference between NiCad types of batteries.  Lawrence Rhodes..
- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Flexcharging NiCad. Smarts a bad boy doesn't have.


No. You need a resistor, variac, inductor, capacitor bank, or some other
current control method. They only turn on or turn off based on the pack
voltage. They do not limit the current.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:27 AM
Subject: Flexcharging NiCad. Smarts a bad boy doesn't have.


Seems this Controller could take the bad boy output and civilize 
it.Am
I
hoping for too much.  These guys are near Lee Hart.  Lee got your ears 
on.
Lawrence Rhodes

Our charge control will work with most sources as long as it is within
the amperage range of the controller.  An NCHC60/48 would be a 60 amp
max. 48 volt controller.  The price is $233.00 plus freight of $10.00 or
less.  The controller will let the battery voltage of ( in your case) 40
cells, rise to 62 volts and then turn off and let the voltage drop to
about 55 volts and turn back on again.  We don't regulate the incoming
voltage or amperage but watch the battery voltage very close.  Even
though you are monitoring only 40 cells you can pass a higher voltage
through the switching contactor so you are able to charge any number of
cells you want to up to the capacity of your charge source.  Flooded
cell NiCad's can usually be charged by voltage monitoring with no
problem.  Dry sealed NiCad's are a completely different story and our
control will not work on them.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site www.flexcharge.com
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2005-01-17 at 17:12, Victor Tikhonov wrote:

> Sealing off radiator intake area is questionable to me.
> IT certainly does not reduce frontal area, and total
> drag is Area*Cd (accurate enough for practical purposes).

Sealing off the rad will not change the frontal area, but it will change
the Cd.  I'm not sure what the truck is that original poster is
converting, but sealing the grill area flush to the front of the hood
and headlights there may be a fairly significant advantage to the feel
of the truck at speed and to the drag.


Adam.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, I agree it's best to keep the politics to a minimum in items posted 
to the EV discussion list.  There has been a little too much politics 
leaking into the list in my opinion, given the diverse nature of the 
participants in the EV list. A safe rule to follow when posting a 
message is that it should be *not possible* to determine whether the 
author of a message  is conservative or liberal from the text.   
Proofread your messages before sending. If it is clear that the message 
says "written by a liberal" or "written by a conservative", think hard 
before sending it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(George 

EV digest 4037

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4037

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) looking for low-voltage output charger with CAN functionality
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Tango's nationality
by Steve Gaarder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) FL EAA Meeting
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) 1966 Corvair
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) John's brain and EV costs,  was Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist 
Repossession
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Retiring the E-woody, RE: Coilovers for Ghia's, bugs, wasBatts in 
Ghia's, 
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15) Re: site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) regen...
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) OT: converting generator to natural gas
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Longer range thought.
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) battery voltage
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) Re: regen...
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 92 geo tracker for sale
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Fw: EVLN(Th!nk 'Public' EV 12k, launch later this year)Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: regen...
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: regen...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 27) Next-Generation Nanotech Power Cell Batteries 
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know if there is a charger with an output voltage range that
goes down as low as 50-60V and which has CAN functionality?
(The Brusa chargers have CAN functionality but don't go lower than 130V.
Rich's PFC chargers go all the way down to 10V, but I don't think they have
CAN functionality.)
BTW, this is for a test cycle evaluation we are setting up on some li-ion
batts, where we want to evaluate the performance of the integrated BMS,
which uses CAN bus to interface with the charger.
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Rick Woodbury has been in England for some time now, setting up the
> agreement with Prodrive to build the production versions of Tango.

Well, since it's only one seat wide, we don't need to worry about
left-hand vs right-hand drive :-)

Steve Gaarder
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everyone - worth reading.
Remarkable was statement of Ford spokesman who said:
clearly, ZEVs could be easily built today if they wanted to.
This is actually publicly admiting that Ford doesn't want to.
Thanks for posting this link Danny.
Victor
Danny Ames wrote:
http://yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_17127.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To all the FL EV'ers, the FL EAA is having a meeting this Saturday January
22nd in Titusville. The meeting will be at the Roadhouse grill on Hwy 50 and
I-95 from 1PM to 3:30.

If anyone needs more info, please email me off-list. Hope to see lots of
folks there!

Thanks,

--
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida Electric Auto Assoc.
http://www.floridaeaa.org
Custom Honda Electric Motorcycle 72V
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:10:06 -0800, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>Everyone - worth reading.

Yaaa, busted my sides laughing.  Where do they get this stuff?  Better
than Comedy Central.

>
>Remarkable was statement of Ford spokesman who said:
>clearly, ZEVs could be easily built today if they wanted to.
>
>This is actually publicly admiting that Ford doesn't want to.

And the reason Ford doesn't "want" to?  Because no company "wants" to
build a product that nobody will buy.  A couple hundred lunatic fringe
don't count.

Actually that story explains quite well why major OEMs crush instead of
sell prototype vehicles like these EVs.  Consider "rancher" Rayboy.  What
does he do after Ford decides not to sell him a vehicle that belongs to
Ford?  Why, he runs to the attorney general, of course.

With juries award

EV digest 4038

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4038

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) JCI battery for hybrids 
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: 92 geo tracker for sale
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) =?windows-1252?Q?Volvo=92s_new_eco-friendly_runs_on_3=2C?=
 =?windows-1252?Q?000_lithium-ion_batteries?=
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Battery Advice Needed Dynasty/Interstate DCS-100L
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: regen...
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: 92 geo tracker for sale
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: regen...
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: regen...
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: 92 geo tracker for sale
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) re: Ranger leases
by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: EVLN(Th!nk 'Public' EV 12k, launch later this year)Comments
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: regen...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Fwd: Next-Generation Nanotech Power Cell Batteries 
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Tango comments- was Re: EVLN(Th!nk 'Public' EV 12k, launch later this year)
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Local suppliers can, and should, get in on the action, Flynn said. 

"If people are going to make hybrids here, [U.S.-based] suppliers have to get 
into the
game soon," he said. "The long-term attractiveness of the business is, if a 
little
uncertain, looking better and better every quarter." 


http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/18/B03-62161.htm




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Geo Tracker and Suzuki Sidekick are the same car. At that age is is about a
1.6l 4cyl fuel injected motor at around 95 hp - with either an automatic or
a 5 speed manual. The tracker came in 2 and 4 wheel drive with a transfer
case and manual or automatic hubs, in 2 and 4 door versions.

I have one (gas powered) and it gets around very nimbly on it's rather small
motor, but the car has the aerodynamics of a brick, so if you were to go
electric you would do much better in town than on the freeway. On the plus
side, it has a full ladder frame, so you could get very creative in mounting
your batteries underneath it and save almost all of your cab room. Just put
a little body lift on it and mount some kind of removable tray underneath.
H Maybe after I finish with my Fiat EV I can see about a little
electric mini-jeep?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Coate
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:03 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 92 geo tracker for sale

I read my mail too late and the auction already closed at $1875, but out of
curiosity

Anyone know what type of drive train might be found in a Geo Tracker?


billb wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> I noticed a 92 geo tracker for sale on the gsa site 
> http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/
> get in and search by state for Massachusetts. Other than a broken 
> windshield appears intact.
> bidding is at $1000 and will close on the 18th.
>




_
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*0–60* <10 seconds *Top speed* 85 mph *Max power* 105 hp *Range* 300 km 
(186 mi) *Fuel* Electric *Weight* 2,300 lbs (est.)
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/article/0,20967,1016254,00.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:07:20 -0800 (PST), Sam Thurber
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>--- Neon John  wrote:
>
>> Actually that story explains quite well why major
>> OEOEMsrush instead of
>> sell prototype vehicles like these EVEVs Consider
>> "rancher" Rayboy What
>> does he do after Ford decides not to sell him a
>> vehicle that belongs to
>> Ford?  Why, he runs to the attorney gen

EV digest 4039

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4039

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: regen...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: regen...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: regen...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) EVLN("I don't know what to believe from Ford.")
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Tango comments- was Re: EVLN(Th!nk 'Public' EV 12k, launch later
 this year)
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) EVLN(Matsushita pays Texaco-Chevron for ECDE Ovonic NiMH license)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) EVLN(Matsushita pays Texaco-Chevron for ECD Ovonic NiMH license)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Selling home made EV's, was Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
i wish you lived in the UK
if i could rent an electric car to drive about in and
find someone to fix the thing , I would gladly stump
up the cash
here in the UK however the cost of building a car to a
decent standard is just prohibitive unless you have
the facilities to do your own fabrication work and
lots of free time.
many people do of course build evs here but they tend
to be "built in a shed" style vehicles because to get
quality components made up by a decent machine shop
just plain costs too much
i read about people in the states complaining about 
the lack of electric vehicles on the roads - you
should all be grateful that there are any at all !
if you lived in a country where components cost 2-3
times their value 
how many evs do you think would get built?
i end up getting loads of stuff shipped from the
States for my projects - at least you lot can order
things and not pay the sameagain  as it's cost in
import tax, VAT and shipping (not to mention waiting
weeks for it to arrive)
rant over.
reb



  --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Neon John
> 
> As a person in the grips of the 4th stage of ev
> madness , John's post are
> often a wake up slap in the face ,
> 
> > operation.  No assembly line, just work clusters
> of technicians
> > hand-assembling the car.  Ya, GM called it a
> production vehicle but that
> > was just marketing fluff.
> >
> 
> I am very pro EV , and have , am building cars and
> trying to get them to be
> driven by people . Its easy to say " people want
> them the car companies just
> won't make them." But what I'm finding out more and
> more is how hard it is
> to find somebody to give me $100 a month payment on
> one , . Jon who had been
> driving one has now gone to Los Vegas to fine work 
> The truck he had been
> driving and keeping up , is now at his brothers ,
> who is not into EV's. The
> truck that went to North Carolina is sitting with a
> battery post melted off
> , and as the cold weather cut back on the 50 miles
> in distance that it was
> giving they can't use it and it  is not being used
> or played for .  It's
> looking for a new home , . I get the " you must make
> them  better " and
> "well there not new how can you ask so much for them
> " . I am trying to work
> with what I have , pouring allot of money into an ev
> that I'm only getting
> 100 a month payment on is  just to far out there
> even of me but I have put
> together working cars/trucks and made them useable.
> I need people that will
> do some work for them self's or people that will pay
> more money , I don't
> seem to find many . Where many of you talk to people
> about your EV's and get
> all the ah ah go ev , after I talk to someone I put
> it to them " would you
> pay 100 a month to drive one " . not many takers ,
> I'm not upset , I know my
> conversions are not the best , but they where made
> very low budget , . I
> would like to have a down payment of at least the
> price of the charger . But
> I'm not in that position , I have cars sitting and
> That's the worst than for
> an EV.  What I am finding is that some people just
> want me to convert the
> car they have and do it the way they want it , Thank
> God for this , It makes
> a lot more sense than me spending $8k of my money to
> have somebody pay it
> back interest free for  the next 80 months . So if
> your upset about not
> being about to buy an EV please drop m

EV digest 4040

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4040

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Battery Advice Needed Dynasty/Interstate DCS-100L
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) EVs you can buy (was: Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers ...)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: regen...
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) EV1's
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: test run at -35
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Kit Car EVs
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Steve's business (was: Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession)
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: battery voltage
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: regen...
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Steve's business (was: Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) UK EV construction
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: test run at -35
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: UK EV construction
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) New BEV for Sale to Beta Customer 
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Ampabout ... get packin
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rick and all,
I am using Dynasty AGMs in my Civic EV, but mine are used and blem units so 
I really can't give you any accurate idea of their service life.  Worse 
than that, mine are a mix of the DCS-100L deep cycle ones, and the High 
Rate Series ones.  Yes used miss-matched batteries, I know not a great 
idea, but at $20 each and with date codes of less than a year old it was 
hard to resist.  My plan was to use these to get the charging system sorted 
out, then invest in a set of new DCS-100L one for a real pack.  So far the 
used ones are doing well, and I am considering different options so they 
haven't been replaced.

I do have the rear set mounted on end with half-inch spacing, the front 
ones are flat including two that are against each other on one side but 
otherwise fully exposed.  For the winter I gave the front ones a wrap of 
three electric battery blankets and sweater of foam insulation.  The rear 
ones are just sitting against two more battery blankets.  The rear ones 
tend to run about 3 degrees warmer than the fronts.  I have a pair of those 
inside-outside thermometers, one for each pack.

Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Jan 2005 at 12:15, David Dymaxion wrote:

> EV car companies that are still alive (to my knowledge), that offer
> freeway-capable vehicles you can drive away: Solectria, AC
> Propulsion, and Tango (well, hopefully soon).

Solectria stopped production of the Force when GM discontinued US sales of 
their glider (the Geo / Chevrolet Metro).  It was a tough sell anyway, at 
around $30k for an electrified $10k econobox.  

Solectria still offers the Citivan electric box truck.  It has a top speed of 
60 
mph and will carry up to 3,500 lb.  You can buy a used one with only 532 
miles on it for $40k. 

http://www.solectria.com/products/citivan.html

If you have lots of kids to transport - say, 66 of them - and ample cash, you 
might have Solectria build you a schoolbus.  They come in battery electric 
and true hybrid ("plug hybrid") flavors.  You could drive it at 55 mph on the 
highway, and go 60 miles on battery power alone, though probably not both 
at the same time.  No idea of the cost.

htp://www.solectria.com/products/buses.html

AC Propulsion?  No current offerings, except for a $265,000 T-Zero, the last 
of the breed.  However, they promise they'll be selling Scion conversions this 
year.  Time will tell.

Tango?  It may have a good chance in Europe.  In North America, who 
knows?

> What has surprised me is that kit car companies (to my knowledge)
> don't sell electric versions of their cars.

I don't know of any current ones, but then I'm not a kit car hobbyist. Maybe 
someone else knows.  

There have been some in the past.  Bradley made an electric version of their 
GT, a VW-based kitcar, about 20-25 years ago.  

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/499.html

The Dolphin Vortex was a 3-wheeler electric or gas, your choice, not the 
same as the Vortex kit car now made in England.  I think at one time there 
was a kit, I'm not sure; currently it's only available as DIY plans.

htt

EV digest 4041

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4041

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Fw:A world without Crud-oil, all electric autos 1900
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: regen...
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: regen...
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Steve's business
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Old Beetle EV Conversion Update
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: The point of diminishing returns?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers/ EV biz
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Battery Packs
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: New recumbent motorcycle
by "paul compton \(RRes-Roth\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Battery Packs
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: New recumbent motorcycle
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) ETS AND NESEA TEAM UP FOR EMISSION FREE VEHICLES 
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: New BEV for Sale to Beta Customer 
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) zero emissions ?
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: UK EV construction
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: zero emissions ?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: zero emissions ?
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Message: 2 
  Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:16:29 -0800 (PST)
  From: James Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A world without Crud-oil, all electric autos 1900

Think for 2 minutes, about what kind of motors would
be powering our autos, if,  there had never been any
Crud oil discovered. I'll tell you real quick, & I
have the books with the imformation to prove it.
In the late 1800's thru 1920, Electric auto's out sold
every type of Automobile on the road. They would go
100miles on a charge. Ferdinand Porsche's first auto
design, was in Austria, in 1900,it was front wheel
drive, with an electric motor in each wheel. In the
early to late teens, one auto company gauranteed
100miles per charge. They had Iron Oxide Batterys. Can
you just emagine, what mode of transportation we would
have today. In my opinion we would have parabolic
dishes by the multimillions. On house tops, unfertile
land, solar arrays, wind turbines by the millions.
Electric rail service coast to coast in every
direction. Our citys would have trolley cars, NO SMOG,
and a big chance,that we would all be a lot healthier.
For a lot more reading on where the states are,that
are fighting to clean up the air, from Smog,so they
can go outside everyday, without poluted air warnings,
check out this link. JW
http://www.emagazine.com/view/?411

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   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regen has been used on forklifts for year. I dont believe it is that 
complicated but we engage reverse to use it. Reverse is accomplished by 
switching the polarity on the fields. There is another contactor and a 
diode that comes into play also. I can provide a circuit diagram of  the 
ev-100 panel if anyone wants it.
Mike G.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is sort of a question for Rich but others can
chime in. Part of my drive is going up a mountain
road, down through a valley then up the other side.
with a bit of regen I could get the range I need and
not have to ride my brakes for miles. I'm putting it
in a small light weight car. I'm looking for a simple
and cheap regen solution. I'm thinking of putting a
10k alternator in line with my ADC drive motor and a
set of contacts to engage the alternator when the
pedal is released. could I just put PFC charger on the
output of the alternator? would it control the output
well enough with the vari

EV digest 4042

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4042

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: zero emissions ?
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers/ EV biz
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: zero emissions ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Ford Ranger EV Drivers/ EV biz
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: zero emissions ?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: UK EV construction
by spidercats <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Home-made emergency disconnect
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: zero emissions ?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: UK EV construction
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Fwd: EV Parade & BarBQ - Sacramento - Saturday
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: UK EV construction Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) CNG as bridge from ICE to EV?
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) EVLN(EVs are exempt from sales tax in Delhi)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) EVLN(Look before you scoot)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
thanks, good tip.

ivo.

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Roland Wiench
Enviado el: jueves, 20 de enero de 2005 15:23
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: zero emissions ?


You could used Hydrocaps to prevent losses up to 90% by recombining the
released oxygen and hydrogen.

Or you can go to  Water-Miser Vent Caps for a reduction of 30 to 75%, but
does not have to be replace every two years.

Also if you have a so call seal top batteries, but do vent,  Hydrocap
Company in Florida, makes a absorbment pads that absorbs the gases.  These
are normally used in a total enclose enclosers.

Roland


- Original Message -
From: "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:29 AM
Subject: zero emissions ?


> Just as a doubt:
>
> Zero emmissions is a very drastic statement, the batteries (specially when
> hot) will emmit some gases, has anyone given it a second thought ?
>
> What I'm thinking of is a way to collect those vapours and recycle them.
>
> Maybe I shouldn´t even care about them, bu since I'll start my "grand
> project" soon, i wanted to make provisions if necessary.
>
> Keep up the good work.
>
> Ivo jara G.
> Santiago - Chile
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/2005
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/2005

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
we all know what the tomahawk is, it's just an advertising stunt for
chrysler, and it performs adequately just in a straight line, i was just
thinking of a solution for a too long too low recumbent bike, well, just
don't disqualify everything in a vehicle just because it is not coherent,
some solutions are useful sometimes.

regars

Ivo.

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Michael Hurley
Enviado el: jueves, 20 de enero de 2005 13:54
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: RE: New recumbent motorcycle.


>Well, how a bout the solution chrysler used on the tomahawk, it's really a
>four wheel motorcycle: take a peek...
>
>http://www.motobykz.co.uk/Pictures/Tomahawk-V10.jpg
>
>With this i don't mean to tell you to make your bike higher, but it could
be
>as low as you want it, and use four wheels instead of two.
>
>just a thought.

Not to be rude or anything, but the Tomahawk is a total waste of
space. It can barely lean and has a steering lock of about 10 degrees
because of the suspension design. The only reason it has four wheels
is because that was the only way to support the honking huge,
over-powered engine. According to the designer, they decided to use a
viper power-plant and then designed the rest around it. Basically,
it's a poor design wrapped around a bad initial decision.
--


Auf wiedersehen!
__
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in

EV digest 4043

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

e: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 1/19/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jumpstart Ford

PRESS RELEASE

BREAKING NEWS: Ford Agrees to Sell Electric Pickup
Trucks

Abrupt U-Turn Comes After 7-Day Vigil
For Immediate Release: January 20, 2005

San Francisco – As a Sacramento ‘car-sit’ enters day
seven, Ford Motor Company has committed to reverse its
unpopular decision to repossess and destroy its last
zero emission Ranger EVs. Ford’s abrupt u-turn follows
a statewide public outcry that forced it to recant
misleading misstatements about the legality,
popularity and viability of EV technology.

  In a conversation late this afternoon with Jumpstart
Ford coalition partners Global Exchange and Rainforest
Action Network, Niel Golightly, Ford’s director of
sustainable business strategies, agreed that the auto
giant would keep its original promise to sell the
pollution-free pickup trucks to loyal lessees. Ranger
EV drivers Dave and Heather Bernikoff-Raboy, Bill
Korthof and their supporters intend to remain in 
vigil at the downtown Sacramento dealer until Ford
formally follows through.

  The EV community and Jumpstart Ford coalition will
hold an EV parade this Saturday in Sacramento to call
on Ford to revive its entire EV program and
immediately implement existing technology to improve
its longstanding last place EPA ranking and end its
addiction to oil.

  Ford fights progress

  The Ranger EV controversy is the latest in Ford’s
ongoing assault on federal and state efforts to
improve emissions standards and implement fuel
efficiency market incentives like California’s
progressive new law allowing carpool lane access to
hybrids that achieve at least 45 miles per gallon, a
standard that not one Ford model meets. In late 2004, 
Ford supported the filing of a federal lawsuit to
overturn California’s popular new vehicle emissions
standards, the nation’s first-ever rules to reduce
greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions linked to global
warming and the most advanced automotive GHG reduction
targets in the world.

  America’s most oil addicted automaker

  “Automaker Rankings 2004,” a recent report from the
Union of Concerned Scientists, ranks Ford as having
“the absolute worst heat-trapping gas emissions
performance of all the Big Six automakers.” According
to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the
overall average fuel efficiency of Ford's fleet today
is 18.8 mpg, dead last among the major automakers for
the fifth consecutive year. Since the oil crisis of
the 1970s, Ford has ranked worst in overall fuel
efficiency of all major automakers for 20 out of the
last 30 years. 

>From subcompacts to SUVs, Ford's current car and truck
fleet gets fewer miles per gallon on average today
than its Model-T did 80 years ago. Ford's widely
touted 'eco-friendly' Rouge River plant features a
water-preserving green roof, yet manufactures 280,000
gas-guzzling F-150s a year, each truck generating up
to 100 tons of atmospheric carbon over its lifetime. 
Marketed as “the first American hybrid,” Ford's
so-called 'no compromise' Escape represents less than
one half of one percent of its fleet and will have
virtually no impact on its last place fuel efficiency
ranking. 

On September 2, 2004, Niel Golightly, director of
environmental strategies for Ford Motor Company, told
USA Today, “Clearly, the entire industry could build
nothing but zero emissions cars today if it wanted
to.”





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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(Sorry List, I don't have his direct address)
Brian,
If you remove the crossbar that holds the transaxle mounts to the frame horns, 
that will provide a little more clearance to slide the transaxle into position 
with the motor already mounted.  Then you could block it into place while 
reinstalling the crossbar and tranny mounts.  If that doesn't work, an 
abbreviated body/pan separation could be in order.  You'd need to remove all 
pan/body bolts except for the two large ones that screw into the front beam 
(back these out a bit), and then jack the rear end of the body up just a couple 
of inches to provide clearance while inserting the motor.  Depending on how 
you've run your EV cables, the only disconnection required might be the 
accelerator cable.
-Regarding the body cutout option, I'll testify that it sure made for easy 
access on Doug Weathers' Ghia, and with a little custom body work, the panel 
could bolt in and out to look very close to stock!
Good Luck,
Jay Donnaway
1965 & 71 Karmann Ghias
  
Brian Wrote --- For all you classic beetle lovers, I am having a problem. I 
noticed that I might earlier, and now I know. I tried to put my prestolite MTC 
4001 in my 1974 VW. I had to take out the transmission. Because of the length 
of the motor, I wasn't able to put in the motor under because of t

EV digest 4044

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4044

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Sacramento EV Parade & BarBQ
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Problem with list serve (ev@listproc.sjsu.edu)
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) NEDRA Wicked Watts Race April 9, 2005
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) How did Comuter Cars Corp of Spokane  get hooked upwithn England's
 PRODRIVE
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) EV Prices
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Don Cameron's New Beetle EV
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: New BEV for Sale to Beta Customer
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: zero emissions ? ballons?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: regen...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) EBEAA Meeting this Saturday 1/22/04 10-12 in Alameda, CA
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) The Rangers are saved.  Who gets them??
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Home-made_emergency_disconnect?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: people willing to buy EV's
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Electricifying Times
by "James A. Eckman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: NEDRA Wicked Watts Race April 9, 2005
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) RE:CE news 
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) RE: people willing to buy EV's
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: New BEV for Sale to Beta Customer
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: Re: New BEV for Sale to Beta Customer
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:00:36 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 EVs will never get into the
> volume necessary to offer the price at which you won't scoff.
>
> Marc Kohler
>

Hey Mark... you need to talk to me off line.
About this car...
About the only thing that does impress me about this car is Your
Batteries
--- End Message ---

EV digest 4045

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

art_at_earthlink.net


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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Jan 2005 at 11:56, James A. Eckman wrote:

> Does anyone know if "Electrifying Times" is still in business? I subscribed
> last July but have only received one issue so far. They do not reply to my
> e-mails.

Electrifying Times is the only mag I'm aware of which publishes more or less 
when the whim strikes them - or perhaps when they have enough material to 
make it worthwhile - rather than on any regular schedule.  I subscribed 
years ago and thought it was a waste of money, since the issues stopped 
after one or two.  But every now and again an issue still shows up in my 
mailbox.  So they do honor their subscriptions, it's just that you never 
know when the next issue will arrive.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> > M.G. wrote:
> > > In my information it is regen the panel is an ev-100 and plug 
> > > braking was always there and regen was an option. I dont 
> > > think much energy went back to the battery but brush life
> > > increased by three times.
> >
> > [Lee wrote:]
> >
> > I've never heard of regen *increasing* brush life. It usually 
> > decreases brush life, because they now carry current more 
> > of the time, and the motor timing has to be a compromise between
> > motoring and generating action.
> 
> Regen without much current means you are KILLING your 
> brushes... I bet your brush life dropped by a third.

I think that M.G. is stating that brush life increased by 3 times with
regen vs units using plug braking, not that it increased 3x over units
without either.  Look at it this way and what he is telling us is that
plug braking (on the EV-100) is 3x harder on brushes than regen.

I think this is entirely believable if the regen provides better control
over the motor loop current than plug braking did/does.  The fact that
the regen doesn't push a lot of current into the pack and doesn't wear
the brushes excessively may simply be because the regen current limit is
set conservatively; it doesn't have to mean the brushes are getting
killed.

Cheers,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
EV Digest 4044
Topics covered in this issue include:
 1) Sacramento EV Parade & BarBQ
	by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 2) Problem with list serve (ev@listproc.sjsu.edu)
	by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 3) NEDRA Wicked Watts Race April 9, 2005
	by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 4) How did Comuter Cars Corp of Spokane  get hooked upwithn England's
PRODRIVE
	by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 5) Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
	by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 6) EV Prices
	by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 7) Re: Don Cameron's New Beetle EV
	by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 8) Re: New BEV for Sale to Beta Customer
	by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 9) Re: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
	by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: zero emissions ? ballons?
	by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: regen...
	by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EBEAA Meeting this Saturday 1/22/04 10-12 in Alameda, CA
	by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) The Rangers are saved.  Who gets them??
	by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Home-made_emergency_disconnect?=
	by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: people willing to buy EV's
	by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: people willing to buy EV's
	by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
	by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
	by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
	by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Electricifying Times
	by "James A. Eckman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: NEDRA Wicked Watts Race April 9, 2005
	by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) RE:CE news 
	by [EMAIL

EV digest 4046

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4046

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Problem with list serve (ev@listproc.sjsu.edu)
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Sacramento EV Parade & BarBQ
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Mellow Yellow for sale?
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Steve's business (was: Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Don Cameron's New Beetle EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) RE: Trimuter EV?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Sacramento EVent Saturday
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) EVLN(Public must stage sit-ins to buy an EV: Ford says OK to buy)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: people willing to buy EV's
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Home-made emergency disconnect
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Danny, I was wondering the same thing myself. I posted some days ago about
Fund Raising for EV activities and didn't see it come thru or see one reply
post pro or con. Then again I might just be getting totally ignored. Let me
know what you find out on your stuff.

David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque



To: "EV SEND MSG" ; "SFEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:40 PM
Subject: Problem with list serve (ev@listproc.sjsu.edu)


- Original Message - 
From: "Danny Ames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Testing for blocked post and sending to both ev@listproc.sjsu.edu and
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a test.
> I have some examples of proof post are not always getting through.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: Re: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:12:59 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I sure hope he succeeds.  I would sure like to trade in my Lectra for a 
Tango.  I'd never look back. Lawrence Rhodes...
- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Prodrive Builds Tango - the whole story


>
>>
>> Unfortunately this implies something else - that they've yet to attract
>> any startup or venture capital.  That does not bode well.
>>
>> John
>> ---
>> John De Armond
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
>> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
> Whoops John... you just stepped off the deep end.
>
> Rick doesn't have investors because he does not want that image.  His
> captial is his own. And that's the way he wants it.
>
> There is a big difference in taking orders and investment funds, then NOT
> producing.
> Rick's Tango has been produced, Ran with us NEDRA racers, driven in 
> Portland
> and spent time Just being a cute EV right along with our own home brews.
>
> This Guy is one of us, and is Real. Against all odds and common sense, 
> Rick
> has prevailed. My hat is off to him in  Big way.
> There is also the fact that, that Tango has a PFC30 in it.  So It has
> some of my blood in it as well.
>
> So while Rick and the Tango start to actually make units for saleMany 
> of
> the Highly invested, over engineered over hyped EVs are looking for more
> investor funds, Rick is looking for solid orders and
> a growth curve.
>
> Rick does not ask this EV list for million dollar investors... and then 
> take
> orders and still not produce.
>
> I can live with Rick and his Tango... maybe he won't get rich quick... But 
> I
> will gladly help keep his dream alive.
>
> .
> 
--- End Message ---

EV digest 4047

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4047

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Trimuter EV?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) FYI:  10% off Optimas. Orbitals, and Intimidators
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: regen...
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Terminal Type? Re: FYI:  10% off Optimas.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Wow - Congrats to getting the Ford Ranger story on the news!
by Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Terminal Type? Re: FYI:  10% off Optimas.
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Mellow Yellow for sale?
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Specs on SW192 contactors
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Terminal Type? Re: FYI:  10% off Optimas.
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Terminal Type? Re: FYI:  10% off Optimas.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Trimuter EV?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: regen...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Don Cameron's New Beetle EV
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Specs on SW192 contactors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Building, Finishing custom EV's ideas,  Re: Trimuter EV?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) New 2005 German e-Max
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
   Hi Mark and All,
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I'm looking to build a ground up EV instead of doing
> another conversion. I like the looks of the doran
> but I really like this trimuter ev.
> http://www.rqriley.com/tm.htm Sure it'll take
> forever to build but my new job doesn't require a 5
> hour commute everyday so I gotta find something to
> do with my spare time.  Are there any serious issues
> with this idea or these plans? Anyone done this or
> have any good advice?

While it's a cool design, it takes quite a while
to do right, almost all in the body finish. I'd bet
that while Riley has sold thousands of plans, over
40,000 of them, few are finished, probaly under 100.
However it, like all Riley's designs, could be
done in plywood/epoxy fairly easily and either painted
or finished clear. I'd do it clear then after 4-10 yrs
depending on where it was parked, paint it. 
They all use conical projections for the curves,
basicly a bent flat panel which ply conforms to
easily. You just make the same size panel as the foam
though you need to take the thinner ply thickness into
account and make the corners sharper or make corner
laminated frames from thin wood strips and round them
off.. 
 At the same time it would be a good bit stronger
as glass cloth over urethane foam while great for
parting air, it isn't very good for anything else.  
If the body is done in wood/epoxy, it would take
about 1/3 the time to build and weight about 30 lbs
more. 
It's handling as an EV should be fairly good
because of the batts reasonably low CG though not
great with 1 wheel in the front.
If considering a 3wh EV, join the
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]< list For good info on all
3wheelers, not just the Vortex.
  HTH's,
   jerry dycus

> 
> I just want something fun and quick in contrast to
> my S-15 Pickup.  I was originally thinking about
> getting the rodster kit at www.rodster.com but that
> is expensive for any improvement it might offer. 
> 
> Mark Hastings
> 
> S-15 EV
> 
> 




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the monthly special on the lower right part of the 
page:

http://www.remybattery.com/ 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Ranger owners will get the trucks from Ford for 1 dollar.  Lawrence 
Rhodes... 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand but this was how it was exp

EV digest 4048

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

ph
2. European/American: top speed 48 km/hr / 30mph
Climbing 14°: 20.0kph / 12.42mph
Climbing 8°: 30.0kph / 18.64mph
MOTOR*
See picture*  Description: Direct Drive
Type: 48 Volt Brush Motor
Horsepower: 3.0

BATTERY*
Dimensions*
See picture* Type: Sealed Lead Acid
Units Needed: 4 Batteries
Length: 210mm / 8.27in
Width: 165mm / 6.50in
Height: 173mm / 6.81in Weight: 15 kg / 33 lbs
Weight* 1 Unit: 15.0kg / 33.06lb
4 Units: 60.0kg / 132.28lb
Unit Voltage: 12 Volts
Unit Output: 50Amp Hours

RANGE*
With Batteries fully loaded, the EVT-4000e has a range of 86 kilometers
(53.44 miles) if driven under optimal flat terrain condition at a steady speed
of 30.18 kph (18.75 mph)** The EVT-4000e has been declared Long Distance
Champion in both Germany*** and Taiwan international competitions >>>
So, the EVT 4000e, which has been on the market a few years, tops out at
30-35mph, and has a max range of >50mi at >18mph from a 48v/50ah (132#) SLA
pack.
The eMax can go 28-30mph with max range of 43mi (at ?mph) from a 48v/40ah pack.
Granted, a scooter built in Germany may be more dependable than an Asian
version, but you have to seperate marketing hype from reality! The batteries 
seem to perform like SLAs, plus the eMax's bldc may be more efficient (but the
curves at http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/EvtSpecs.htm peak at 94%!)

I look at new product releases as another need for critical skills. I don't know
what performance and reliability issues apply to EVT scooters, but the eMax does
have to compete with the EVT's $2500-2800 retail price.

 


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charles Whalen wrote:
> Does anyone know where to find a battery cycler for bench testing
> batteries, who makes and sells them, any web links? ... I think
> Victor mentioned that such test equipment is quite expensive;
> I think he said something like $5k.  Are they really that much?)

It depends on what you need. Large multi-kilowatt testers for commercial
users are expensive.

But, if you are testing just a few batteries at a time, it can be done
much less expensively. I built my own cycler using a 1500w heater, a
Rudman regulator, and a few misc. small parts. Basically, I modified the
Rudman regulator so there are pots for its turn-on and turn-off
threshold. It controls a relay, whose contacts switch the battery
between a load resistor (switchable for various currents from 4-25 amps)
and a charger (extenal; I just used a charger I already had). The plans
were published on the EV list.

I connect it to a battery, charger, and E-meter. The battery charges to
15v, where the Rudman regulator turns the relay on. This disconnects the
charger and connects the resistive load. When the battery voltage falls
to 10.5v, the Rudman regulator turns the relay off. This reconnects the
charger, the battery charges, and the cycle repeats until you manually
turn it off.

I typically hava a PC connected to the E-meter's serial port to log the
cycle data.
-- 
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley and Rich Rudman can help you with the stuff to build a really 
nice one using a rudman regulator. I think Rich even has some of the 
schematics etc on his website @ manzanita micro. I have been working on a 
unit of my own for the last year mainly due to me getting side tracked + i 
am probably overcomplicating it with a digital process control counter and 
mixed DRO + Analog readout IE: I am using this really cool antique parking 
meter sized dual swing ammeter that I picked up on E-bay, I can read it from 
across the room with no glasses; and a digital voltage display for the 
setpoints, doing a custom case etc. I really should get back to it as I have 
a ton of nicads to process. BTW, I have been thinking of building/marketing 
a simple small single battery unit, even got it pretty well specd out last 
year but I was unsure how it would sell. Figured we had to get 100 + ea to 
really consider building them and would want to do a couple dozen at a time 
at that.

David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:18 PM
Subject: battery cycler


Does anyone know where to find a battery cycler for bench testing 
batteries,
who makes and sells them, any web links?

(As I recall from an exchange between Victor and Philippe a few weeks ago
where Philippe was lamenting the dearth of published 

EV digest 4049

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4049

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Some basic questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Color me dubious, was Re: New 2005 German e-Max
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Color me dubious, was Re: New 2005 German e-Max
by "john floros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Some basic questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Color me dubious
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  8) Re: Some basic questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: Color me dubious, was Re: New 2005 German e-Max
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Terminal Types? Stud vs Post. Optimas.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) AC motor Q's
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Color me dubious, was Re: New 2005 German e-Max
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Terminal Types? Stud vs Post. Optimas.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: to buy or to build...ebike dreams.
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Terminal Types? Stud vs Post. Optimas.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:53 PM -0500 on 1/21/05, MReish wrote:
I am a motorcycle racer. Okay, I 'retired' because it's so 
expensive. Thank of the old joke of how to make a small fortune in 
racing? Start with a big one?

Honda have tried to put a very low CG on their bikes.  Back in the 
early/mid 80's they had a machine called the NS500R with all the 
heavy bits down low.  They found that on the straightaways (where 
they reached speeds of nearly 200mph - remember, this is a long time 
ago) the bike would undulate back and forth. As if that weren't 
scary enough, the poor pilot (Freddy Spencer) discovered it didn't 
turn very well either.  Very, very scary when there's a wall at the 
end of the straight...  After most of a racing season of Spencer's 
complaints about ill handling and the Honda engineers saying he was 
crazy they finally put the CG back and he won the championship.
See my comments to Lawrence as to possible explanations for that.
Uhm... no. The biggest reason I can think of why you don't see 
'bents in racing is because they'd get spanked.  Motorcycles are 
very intimate beasts. To get one around the track in a hurry you 
need to feel what front end is doing and need to be able to move 
your body around.  Not just lean your torso left and right but stand 
on the pegs, move your weight over the front wheel, over the back 
wheel, etc.  I've only test ridden a 'bent and I couldn't do that. 
On a 'bent you're isolated from the front end like a car (bleh). 
It's like groping the prom queen with mittens on your hands.
Don't tell NSU that! They might figure they never actually got all 
those land speed records! Heh.

In general, it seem to me the reason you have to move yourself around 
so much on a standard motorcycle is because it does have such a high 
Cg. With a lower Cg and lower polar moment, you can steer more 
quickly with less force.

In the end, we'll probably never know, since recumbents are still 
banned. Unless someone wants to get two sportsbikes, convert one to 
FF and try racing it's unmodified brother. Anyone got 40 - 50 grand 
for me to do this?

Don't get me wrong: I love recumbents.  I have one on the drawing board.
HPV or PTW? Care to share details?
--
   Auf wiedersehen!
  __
  "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
  "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
  of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
  women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
  "..No."
  "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
   -Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm still trying to grasp this whole electric 
range/performance thing..

For these questions, lets use a 2500lb glider as the target 
weight, regardless of motor size and battery number to keep 
this simple.


1.  Which motor would be the fastest in the 1/4 mile?  The 
8, 9, 11, or 13" WarP motor?

2.  What number of 12v batteries in series would cause the 
motor to be limited by a Zilla 1K?

3.  Let's say I could fit 18 batteries in the trunk alone 
for a 216 volt setup.  I could also fit 7 more where the 
back seat is for a 300 volt setup.  The three drawbacks to 
25 vs's 18 would be the increase in weight, the additional 
battery expense, and to a lesser extent, the loss of the 
back seat.

With the 2500lb car, whichever motor, and the Zilla 2k if 
needed, what could the 1/4 mile be with 216 and 300 volts?

4.  With a seri

EV digest 4050

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

month:
> http://www.whistlerinvestments.com/media.php?mediaID=040831 

>From this link:
"The project will serve as a memorial to the officers of the California
Highway Patrol who have died in the line of duty."
 and
"This project will be a testament to heroism, technology and the
traditions of the CHP."

Gawd bless OCC for building an electric, and HE knows that being a
peace officer is dangerous work, and good people die, but a "memorial"
motor bike?

The only "memorial" I could find on their site was for a fellow that
made his name with world class graphics painted on vehicles?

I guess for my nextgen (illegal) escooter, I'll paint it the colour of
our national flag and dedicate it to all our fallen police officers.

I wonder if this will make a diff. the next time I am pulled over by
one of our finest...

It just seems a bit crass to me as an EV promo...

lock
eLegal and loving it

__ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Is there Any Way to re-send these two digests.  There were 
>LOTS of
>messages I would love to read, but it seems no one ever 
>received them.
>Can some one explain what happened ??  Or is it just too 
>much trouble ?

I see them archived in full here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/messages

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I checked out the picture of this bike I was horrified. Why couldn't 
they get someone like Reverend Gadget who has a sense of style to build it. 
It appears to be a conversion. It is well below the creative abilities of 
Paul Jr. OCC has totally sold out on this one. It is not a fitting memorial 
to the fallen officers. It is obviously a publicity stunt by Whistler 
Investments. Anyone out there know of this company and it's subsidiary, 
Global Electric Motors. Anyone out there seen one of their E-Cobra 
motorcycles which appears to be a standard issue Chinese motor scooter with 
new paint. Is this another one of "Those" companies. I would love to receive 
any information on this, either on list or off.

Roderick
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:30 AM
Subject: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP


This episode might air next month:
http://www.whistlerinvestments.com/media.php?mediaID=040831

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lock,

I considered the same for my Currie.  The only problem is that if you have
to step off (or fall off) for some reason, you're going to be tethered to the
scoot.  Might want to consider some kind of quick-disconnect in that case.
Plus some heavy wires from your backpack to your scoot are going to
make you more conspicuous to the police.

My other thought was some kind of box, such as an ammo box or metal
lunch box, that could quickly fasten to the rear of the scoot with wing nuts
or some other quick disconnect.  If painted to match the scoot, people 
might just think it's a storage box.

The best thing about a backpack or box is that more people are likely to
let you plug in a backpack or box than drag a scooter inside (especially
restaurants.)  You could just ask, "may I plug in my battery charger
somewhere while I work?"

Tim

--
> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:37:50 -0500 (EST)
> From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: to buy or to build...ebike dreams.
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hiya
> 
> I haven't done this, but in theory it would be easy to carry a second
> batt pack (approx.20lbs? depends...) in my backpack (battpack?), wired
> with plug into my charging port on the scoot... well, easy if you don't
> mind the extra weight on the back . I'm sure it's better to keep
> the weight lower down, but...
> 
> In mulling designs for my nextgen scoot, my pack will definitely be
> easily "swapable", whether built in to the scoot or on my back, or
> both.




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The BIG problem is that as we all sit here at our computers reading
and looking at the pretty pictures, we aren'

EV digest 4051

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4051

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) nicad question
by "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Interacter 12V Battery Charger
by JCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Problem with list serve (ev@listproc.sjsu.edu)
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Magnecharger replacing
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: OT: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Flywheel clocking
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Interacter 12V Battery Charger
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: OT: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Fwd: OT: OCC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15) Re: nicad question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) Re: EV digest 4050
by Jarrett Dunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Gadget doing a show with an EV build
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Color me dubious
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Flywheel clocking
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Flywheel clocking
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Flywheel clocking
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Flywheel clocking
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: nicad question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: nicad question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Color me dubious
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 28) OT re: EV taglines
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: nicad question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 30) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: nicad question
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know if there are any problems with buddy pairing flooded nicads
like the bb600?
Thanks
Jerald
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lonnie, Thanks for reeling me in. I jumped the gun and thought the bike was 
their "Stealth Motorcycle". I went and re-read their "forward looking 
statement" and also found out who was behind this company. Many of us on 
this list already know who Chaz Haba is. Thanks for posting the links. This 
bike will most likely never be built but they may be able to sell a few more 
shares of stock by using the OCC's name due to their popularity. Believe it 
or not it is the number one show on all of cable, not just on the Discovery 
Channel or at least it was several months back.

Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Lonnie Borntreger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Evlist" 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP


On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 11:13 -0800, Roderick Wilde wrote:
When I checked out the picture of this bike I was horrified. Why couldn't
they get someone like Reverend Gadget who has a sense of style to build 
it.
It appears to be a conversion. It is well below the creative abilities of
Paul Jr. OCC has totally sold out on this one. It is not a fitting 
memorial
to the fallen officers. It is obviously a publicity stunt by Whistler
Investments. Anyone out there know of this company and it's subsidiary,
Global Electric Motors. Anyone out there seen one of their E-Cobra
motorcycles which appears to be a standard issue Chinese motor scooter 
with
new paint. Is this another one of "Those" companies. I would love to 
receive
any information on this, either on list or off.
I don't think that the picture is the "memorial" bike from OCC.  The
article says "a project of significant importance has been initiated
with officers from the California Highway Patrol and Whistler
Investments, Inc". note the "initiated" part.  Nothing is said of it
actually happening.
If I remember correctly, I once did some digging on this company I found
a lot of negative results about the scamming ways of its founders.  Some
examples that I could find just now in a quick search
htt

EV digest 4052

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4052

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: AC motor Q's
by Edward Kellogg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) A bit OT - Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper
 for the CHP
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: nicad question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Specs on SW192 contactors
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: nicad question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Better  Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: nicad question
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) EDTA Conference Article is online
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Flywheel clocking - Melaxis sensor from Digi-key
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re Nicad question - buddy pair
by "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Magnecharger replacing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Flywheel clocking - Melaxis sensor from Digi-key
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Hose for vacuum system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Better  Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Link to Robert Lange's Chopper
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: regen...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
It assumes a regular gas car, you'd need refinement for hybrids and
diesels, so it sounds like you got the basic idea. Gas mileage has
more to do with the size, weight, and aero of a car than the engine
size -- you'll notice different engines don't change the gas mileage
much. Indeed, sometimes the bigger engine will get better gas
mileage. So that's a long winded way to say gas mileage is pretty
good for estimating how efficient a car is. Kudos to Bill Dube for
thinking up this elegant metric.

YMMV, of course you'll find some people that get better range, and
some worse, than this predicts. Just like gas cars, some people get
better, and some way less, than the EPA estimates. This too can be
good info, if you get well below EPA estimates your commute (stop and
go) or style of driving (binary gas pedal, on or off) will tend to
make an electric car have less range, too, but the metric reflects
this via the lower gas mileage numbers.

I can think of one exception: If you only drive the gasser a mile at
a time, it'll get really lousy gas mileage because it doesn't get
warmed up for most of its driving. Then the EV would have better
range than the metric predicts.

--- Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > Just parroting others here, for range figure about 300 Wh per
> Optima
> > or Orbital, and between 150 Wh/mile (optimistic) and 250 Wh/mile
> > (more realistic). I like Bill Dube's metric, take the car's
> original
> > gas mileage and figure that's about how many miles about 1000
> pounds
> > of lead acid batteries will take you. YMMV. :)
> 
> So, a 20 mpg car would go 20 miles per 1000 lbs of lead?
> A smaller 35 mpg car might go 35 miles?
> An Insight (70 mpg) may travel 70 miles?
> .oO( or is the 70mpg insight a 'special case' ? )


=




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you seen this one? I looked into it for a competition, but we are 
limited to 36 V and this is 48 V. I have heard, but not confirmed, that 
this is the place that does the windings for AC propulsion.

"The Powerhouse" 
3-Phase AC Drive System for Golf Cars and N.E.V.'s
18 Horsepower and 81  Foot Pounds of Torque
6000 RPM Motor
25 MPH without Gear Change
UP TO 100 MILES PER CHARGE
Full Regenerative Braking to zero speed
Higher Torque, Lower Power Consumption
Fits Club-Car, EZ-Go, Yamaha, Columbia Par-Car,
Or any Graziano or Dana-Spicer Differential
No b

EV digest 4053

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4053

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Better  Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: people willing to buy EV's
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: people willing to buy EV's
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Hose for vacuum system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Night Rider Electric Stiletto Chopper
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: nicad question
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re:  Interacter 12V Battery Charger
by JCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Flywheel clocking
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Night Rider Electric Stiletto Chopper
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: The point of diminishing returns?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Comments interspersed.

--- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi David, Ryan and All,
>His metric isn't very good for so many
> reasons like engine size, eff, drag, speed, ect that
> anyone who cares about range would change.

Good point that hadn't been stated, doing things that would improve
gas mileage will improve range. EVs can do the gassers one better, no
need for cooling a huge radiator or hot exhaust pipe, so even better
aero is possible.

>   Better would be range according to % of batt
> weight,
> 
>  30% batt weight = 20-40 mile,
>  40% = 30-60 miles  
>  50% = 45-100 miles
>  with the lower mileage for non optimzed EV's,
> pickups and the upper for optimised, more aero EV's. 
>  -15% for AGM's in most cases vs golf cart batts
> except in heavily loaded, short range ones where they
> are about = though faster.
>   Driving 20% slower gets you about 30-50% more
> range above 45 mph.

The percent battery weight is really saying the same thing as Bill
Dube's metric. Heavier car, less gas mileage, but more weight in
batteries. Of the 10 cars I've owned vehicle weight has been a good
predictor for city gas mileage.

Of course, the best way is look at real life data. Next is a
complicated simulation. Next would be tables like you presented. For
a simple, easily explained, adjustable to a wide range of cars
metric, it is tough to beat saying "gas mileage and 1000 lbs. batts =
1 gallon gas" is a good average kind of number to use.

>   Thus from a cost, range, performance standpoint
> a light, aero, optimized  EV is going to be a much
> better idea.
>   Needless to say, YMMV!!!
>   HTH's,
 
Amen to that! An 18 wheeler EV might have 75% weight in batteries and
hundreds of miles of range, but I shudder to think of the cost!

> > > David Dymaxion wrote:
> > > > I like Bill Dube's metric, take the car's original
> > > > gas mileage and figure that's about how many
> > > > miles about 1000 pounds
> > > > of lead acid batteries will take you. YMMV. :)


=




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly, we should take it one step at  a time...

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Steve Marks
Enviado el: viernes, 21 de enero de 2005 17:24
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: RE: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)

Thanks Ivo.

I'm confident the information can be effectively represented.  I just
need to know what information to display, how to gather it to the PC and
how it should appear to the user.  The code I can do myself.

It would be nice to interface to Rudman's regs and get per-battery
information during race and recharge events.  It would also be nice to
present a GUI for access to various Zilla options - especially since the
Ghiamonster will have three of these and anything I do on one would most
likely need to be propagated to the other two.

With a GUI at my disposal, there's a great deal of EV related
information I can choose to represent.  The biggest unknown is what
information, how to gather it and how it should appear to the user.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ivo Jara G.
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:41 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)

I fI'm right, you want to monitor all the car's vitals wit

EV digest 4054

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4054

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) OT re: EV taglines
by "steve ollerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) motorcycle stability
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) New & Used Nicads - sources?
by "elists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Vogelbuilt bike (OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Flywheel clocking - Melaxis sensor from Digi-key
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: New recumbent motorcycle EV's., 50 mph GC  transaxle trikes
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) OT article: Thrice Bitten: Aprilia's Three-wheeler Concept
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: motorcycle stability
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: nicad question - new question
by "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: nicad question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Magnecharger replacing
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:

> Take a look at http://www.hightech.clara.net/pearly.htm at the bottom 
> of the page to see what can happen when a well-made FF gets clobbered 
> by a car. Royce walked away from that with a bruised thumb, as I 
> remember. Note that the vehicle was rebuilt as well and is still on 
> the road, now wearing yellow. It is Royce's daily driver.

This is perhaps a difference in philosophy.  Looking at the photos, getting
only a bruised thumb seems possible but unlikely.  He states in his captions
that significant damage was done to the bike from his body hitting and
deforming things.  In another accident, with a different rider, those
impacts could easily cause far more injury.  If you accept impact between
the passenger and the vehicle "interior", you need to start looking at
things like a car designer.  One has to wonder if it makes sense to equip
the rider with a seat belt, shoulder harness and roll bar.  Why not just
drive a car?

Granted if you get thrown from your standard motorcycle and hit something
hard, you're in for a world of hurt.  But you'd be amazed how infrequently
that happens.  I rode for many years, crashed many times and never hit
anything.  Not only that, but on a standard motorcycle your first instinct
is to get away from the bike in a crash.  With a FF, you're wearing it.  No
rider wants to get pinned and dragged by his bike.  That's far more likely
on a FF.

Again, it's a difference in philosophy.  No one gets to pick their
accidents.  We each need to evaluate our approach for ourselves.

Chris

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> But, if mine bother people, I can take mine out.

David Chapman wrote:
> Don't you dare... your re-acquainting us all with BFs "Dead and
> rotten" really hit me hard with its appropriateness...

For old time's sake, I put it at the bottom of this email :-)

> Besides getting me back interested in pursuing my EV endeavors
> I recently passed that quote on to an 85 year old friend and
> business associate of mine. He had never heard it before!

How could *anyone* be familiar with everything Ben wrote! He was
prolific (and without a computer, too! :-)

Seriously, I find that quotes and poems often capture the essence of an
idea, in a form that make it easier to remember (Twinkle twinkle little
star; Power equals I squared R).

Also, great writers can say in a few words what takes me whole
paragraphs. I marvel at how a very compact bit of text can say volumes
about a subject!

> And to really bring this home Lee, he told me he wanted to get
> started (within the next 3-4 months) building him the EV pickup conversion 
> that I have been after him for years to do.

Ask John Wayland to tell you about Dick Finley! He inspired several
great EVs, including the Red Beastie and Rocket Renault.

> If someone made a random tagline plug-in for OE, would probably
> sell well.

In the "gool ol' days", the signature was kept in a little file like
SIGNATUR.DOC on disk. The email progr

EV digest 4055

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4055

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV digest 4054
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) MagneCharger Replacing
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Flywheel clocking - Melaxis sensor from Digi-key
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: nicad question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: motorcycle stability
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) EV Awareness
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: nicad question - new question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: nicad question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: nicad question
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV Awareness
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV Awareness
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Flywheel clocking - Melaxis sensor from Digi-key
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: [ThunderSky] Re: Battery Size's
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV Awareness
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV Awareness
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV Awareness
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: EV Awareness
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Any news or updates?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) EVLN(Victory for Dave & Heather Bernikoff-Raboy and Bill Korthof)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
I've recently had a though about this.
What if you buy a AVCON to 14-50 adapter kit, and mount the Magnecharger and
this adapter to a board. Now you have a portable Magnecharger.
It's something I've been thinking about too, especially since the vehicle I'm 
planning on getting is a pickup and would have plenty of room for it.

Though I was sort of hoping to use a PFC-30 for getting a faster than normal 
charge.  Oh well, I can do that when I have the time, place and money to build 
my own...
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message  *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go here. Hit "chargers" button. This man loves his toys:

www.darelldd.com/ev

Marv

> From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:43:33 -0800
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Magnecharger replacing
> 
> I've recently had a though about this.
> 
> What if you buy a AVCON to 14-50 adapter kit, and mount the Magnecharger and
> this adapter to a board. Now you have a portable Magnecharger.
> 
> With this setup you could have a mobile charger that would allow you to charge
> at an AVCON, Magnecharger, or standard conductive socket depending on what's
> available.
> 
> Would this work?
> 
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 04:52:14PM -0800, Alan Batie wrote:
>> I'm curious if the PFC-30 could replace the magnecharger in the S10 EV's,
>> or if at the very least, you can chop off the paddle and replace it with a
>> plug of the appropriate type?  If I have to use the magnecharger, the only
>> place I'd be able to charge it would be at home.
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--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I wonder why one has to go through the trouble to glue a
> magnet into a flywheel if he can simply just magnetize a
> portion of the ring itself? That is, of course, if you
> retain the ring.

It's hard to magnetize the ring and have it *stay* magnetized. They
aren't made of materials good for permanent magnets.

> If not - in theory any non-aluminum rotating part
> (like pressure plate edge) can be magnetized enough to
> use magnetic pick up. No changes to the flywheel, no dangers of
> something falling off at high speed...

Maybe what he wants is a "variable reluctance" type of sensor. They are
very simple to set up because both the sensing coil and the magnet are
in the same device.

Basically, it is a coil of wire wound over a magnet. You position it
near a ferrous (or sometimes non-ferrous) gear or cam lobe or whatever.
As the metal passes nearer/farther away from the magnet, the flux
increases/decreases. This induces an AC voltage in the coil. This
voltage is amplified and used for your pulse detector etc.

Non-ferrous materials that are good conductors (l

EV digest 4056

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

r than it
would take me to get controller design. ;^)

Chris




Regards
Richard


-
 ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!  --- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.metricmind.com/counter.htm
Will work with 15...500 VDC packs.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Ryan Stotts wrote:
I'm still planning / researching.  Anyone have anys links to 
Ammeter / State of Charge / Amp-Hour meters/gauges for a 300 
volt setup?  I want to be able to know if the pack is 
charged up or not, and to what amount.  Also when driving, 
how many amps the motor/controller is pulling from the pack 
and at what rate. 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
ViewItem&rd=1&item=4521951463&category=6472&sspagename=WDVW

In pieces but has all the parts
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I *heard* 500 forces were built. I bet fewer than 10% were NiMH or 
NiCad, but I don't know. Some were dual motor BLDC, some dual motor AC 
induction, most were single motor AC induction with Deka gel cells. Low 
current limits.
They were a modest car, but designed to a price and to last thru the 
battery warranty period. Because of that, and the hard work of a lot of 
believers, the company is still around.

Seth
On Jan 25, 2005, at 9:15 AM, Steve Clunn wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sorry, it was a joke that only I got.
I got it :-)  but then I ,from reading the list I new you worked at
Solectria ( i think ) . Let me say I am in ah of any of these EV 
companys ,
They did it , ! what we talk about , dream about , They did . Not just 
a few
cars , but many . Is there a web page anywhere telling about all these 
old
Ev companys ?  How many car did Solectria make ? Who can fix them now. 
Where
are they ,

. My point was that people say it can't be done,
have no idea why, but repeat it, even when there are examples to the
contrary.
Sounds alot like EV's
SteveClunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why did Rudman warn me very sternly concerning these batteries?  Of course I 
have a rep. that I have to live down being a reg. abuser.  I think he 
thought I'd kill myself.  So you can Parallel them.  Gees.Lawrence 
Rhodes.
- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: nicad question


Seth;
I believe that it is OK to do flooded cells in parallel but not 
cylindrical
cells.

Did I get that point across or did I misscommuncate again?
I hate typing when I'm tired. I make too many mistakes.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: nicad question


You better tell Solectria not to parallel them because those early
(wet) NiCad Forces that are still running after 10 years that way.  So
someone hurry and tell them that they did it wrong ;-)
  2 40Ah strings in parallel. Still running at UMass last I heard, that
was 2003 but they were 1993(ish) cars.
Seth
On Jan 23, 2005, at 11:50 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
> If there is a reason to not charge "flooded" NiCads in parallel,
> please let
> me know.
>
> The reason that cylindrical NiCads can't be recharged in parallel does
> not
> apply to flooded cells because the behave differently at end of charge.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" 
> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: nicad question
>
>
>> << Does anyone know if there are any problems with buddy pairing
>> flooded
> nicads
>> like the bb600? >>
>>
>> You don't want to charge nicads in parallel, but supposedly you can
> discharge
>> them that way.
>>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand your concern but I'm not doing this alone.  The punching bag 
analogy was to show that low center of gravity good.  High bad.   The bike 
will be simple using some left over parts.  Two Lectra wheels.  An A89 ADC. 
I think a controller from an Electravan.  Should be very fast.  With long 
range.  Comfortable seating.  I will need some front disc brakes, handle 
bar, rear swing arm.  Basic stuff.  Deafscooter is going to help.  It will 
have some aspects of a Manga Street racer.  Lawrence Rhodes
- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Electric Veh

EV digest 4057

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4057

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: [ThunderSky] Re: Battery Size's
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) New cars with Zebra battery ( was Re: [ThunderSky] Re: lithium powered 
smart car)
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Magnecharger replacing
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) NEDRA Power of DC June 11, 2005
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: nicad question
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Fwd: Re: nicad question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?
by W Bryan Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: AC motor Q's
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) decoding Siemens .trc inverter files?
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling? Cat attracting?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling? Cat attracting?
by Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) KillaCycle to Race at Last Chance Test and Tune in Las Vegas
February 5
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: decoding Siemens .trc inverter files?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: decoding Siemens .trc inverter files?
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Fwd: Re: nicad question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) HEADS UP - Seattle !
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Flowers, James R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Fwd: Re: nicad question
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Look at the unmodified spreadsheet. There you can see a power at 60 mph
of 32296 W. I see 46 KW in the 120 km/h column, but this is 75 mph.

Here are the differences side-by-side:
Honda
FrontalAreaOfCar1,86m^2 2,39m^2 
PercentGrade0   2
VehicleMass 1534kg  1680kg

Drivetrain efficiency   0,9 0,9
Tire rolling resistance coefficient 0,010,015   
Brake and Steering Resistance   0,003   0,003
DragCoefficient 0,290,38
AirDensity  1,25kg/m^3  1,2 kg/m^3

Speed (km/h)100 100
(m/s)   27,827,8

ForceOfAirResistance (N)260,1   420,5
ForceOfIncline (N)  0   329
ForceOfRollingResistance (N)196 297

TotalDrag (N)   456 1046

Power to Maintain Speed (W) 14067   32296
Power to Maintain Speed (hp)18,943,3

The main difference comes from the difference in PercentGrade and the
AirResistence. The other smaller differences just add up.

Emil

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:18:47 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:

> Are you saying that the frontal area and drag combined for beetle
> are 3 times worse than that for CRX?
> 
> Beetle: Cd=0.38 A=1.91m^2, product is 0.725
> CRX: Cd=0.29 A=1.862m^2, product is 0.54
> 
> The product for CRX is 34% less but the power
> consumption (main difference at high speed is only due to this
> product) - ~300%.
> 
> Can you explain? May be Don can chime in.
> 
> Try the same numbers for 25mph where air drag and frontal area
> still have negligible effect.
> 
> Victor
> 
> 
> 
> Emil Naepflein wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:38:20 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Careful, this spread sheet is attempt to formalize known
> >>dependencies, but the end result may be off reality by a
> >>factor of 2 or 3.
> > 
> > 
> > The spreadsheet is correctly programmed. All depends on the parameters
> > you enter.
> > 
> > 
> >>It should not take for a normal pasenger car more than
> >>15kW to move at 60 mph. My ACRX takes 45A at 300V at
> >>60 mph, this is 13.5 kW. Yet Don's spreadsheet estimates
> >>that for a new beetle (~ similar shape) 46kW needed - more
> >>than 3x error.
> > 
> > 
> > The problem is that the New Beetle has a drag coefficient like a brick
> > and a frontal area much larger than your ACRX. 
> > 
> > Just put the values of your ACRX into the spreedsheet and you get what
> > you expect (don't forget to set PercentGrade to 0):
> > 
> > FrontalAreaOfCar1,86m^2 
> > PercentGrade0 

EV digest 4058

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4058

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: [ThunderSky] Re: Battery Size's
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: decoding Siemens .trc inverter files?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Score One for EVs
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) perm 132 DC motor question
by mark ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Score One for EVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Ev too quite
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Fuse placement
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Fuse placement
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Score One for EVs
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Score One for EVs
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Oh no.  My ETEK ate a brush?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Found a running Aspire 
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Fuse placement
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Mixing battery chemistries!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Score One for EVs
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Found a running Aspire
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Oh no.  My ETEK ate a brush?
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Fuse placement
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I was watching "American Hot Rod" a few weeks ago, and they were building a 
completely new car, from aluminum. I remember thinking at the time that such 
a car would do very well as an EV, as it was light, custom designed and 
doable.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
- Original Message - 
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: people willing to buy EVs


>Thoughts? Suggestions? Encouragement?

From my perspective, the ONLY thing that keeps ANYONE from
converting to an EV is money.  Why did I not convert my car
yesterday or last week already?  Money.
Have you selected and acquired your ideal vehicle to be
converted?
You basically just need 4 things:  motor, controller,
charger, batteries.  Plus some incidentals.  4/0 cable,
material for the battery racks/frames, something for the
throttle(pot box?), gauges, motor mount and adapter..
Do you want a 8 or 9 inch motor or something bigger?
Which Zilla do you want?
Which PFC charger do you want?
Do you want Optimas or Orbitals?  How many?
I think we are already well over $4,000 at this point.
Installing and mounting the motor, controller, and charger
is the easy part.
Figuring out a way to securely mount the batteries...  Seems
like there is an infinite amount of ways to do it, yet not a
universally simple and elegant way of doing it.  Any tried
and trued method?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AH, I see why. Grade percentage. 2% is HUGE difference, especially
at speeds. I wonder why Don left 2% as "default" in his spread sheet.
My bad for overlooking it though, thanks.
Emil Naepflein wrote:
Look at the unmodified spreadsheet. There you can see a power at 60 mph
of 32296 W. I see 46 KW in the 120 km/h column, but this is 75 mph.
Here are the differences side-by-side:
Honda
FrontalAreaOfCar1,86m^2 2,39m^2 
PercentGrade0   2
VehicleMass 1534kg  1680kg

Drivetrain efficiency   0,9 0,9
Tire rolling resistance coefficient 0,010,015   
Brake and Steering Resistance   0,003   0,003
DragCoefficient 0,290,38
AirDensity  1,25kg/m^3  1,2 kg/m^3
Speed (km/h)100 100
(m/s)   27,827,8
ForceOfAirResistance (N)260,1   420,5
ForceOfIncline (N)  0   329
ForceOfRollingResistance (N)196 297
TotalDrag (N)   456 1046
Power to Maintain Speed (W) 14067   32296
Power to Maintain Speed (hp)18,943,3
The main difference comes from t

EV digest 4059

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 more efficient cooler running control and
haven't hit an animal in the last 10 years.  I was the MAJOR cause of Road
Kill prior to doing this in the Roanoke, VA area.  I've read in Consumer
Reports and heard a study on NPR indicating that the deer whistles are a
placebo effect (they don't work), but hearing an eee coming at you
certainly does.  I live out in the sticks and drive through an area with
bear and lotsa deer (also wild dogs, cats, muskrats, beavers, squirrels,
possums and some things I'm not sure of). mark

- Original Message - 
From: "W Bryan Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:16 AM
Subject: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?


> I think my EV is TOO silent. As I was coming home around dusk
> last night, a dog jumped out in front of me. Thankfully, I just
> had my brakes done.
>
> I see plenty of devices out there that emit deer-repelling noises.
> Does anyone here have one they use that also scares off dogs and
> cats?
>
> Thanks!
> Bryan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I may wind up with 120v of extra NiCad.  Is it
> possible to mix different 
> chemistries in two different strings or will my Lead
> Acid be hammered by the 
> NiCads loafing?

Depends on how you do it, If you use slightly less
ni-cad voltage it will hang out until your lead pach
sags from higher power needs on accelerating or when
it goes soft at the end of the range.
 Benefits are much lower purkeut losses in the
lead batts and less high current, deep discharge 
damages for both longer range and life not including
the longer range the nicads provide.
 By using cells you can adjust the voltage closely
until you have the perfect combo where they both
discharge at the same % of charge. Also as the ni-cads
would then need about the same charge voltage you
could use the same bulk charger with seperate final
charge cut off circuits.
You could use a higher current controller and make
that Aspire really fly!! It could be the first Aspire
to melt it's tires!!
 I'd do it!!

> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519 
> 
> 




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
  Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did the first serious hill climbing going over Twin
> Peaks in San Francisco
> today.  The Lectra seemed to perform well.  Went up
> the controller eating 
> hill then to Forest hill station and
> back up Pacheco and then disaster.  It sounded like
> a brush being eaten by
> the motor.  Stilted vibration running then nothing
> just a scrap sound on
> every revolution while pushing the beast.  I guess
> 16 to 54 might be a
> little high for hill climbing in San Francisco. 

This is the same thing that mine did which ate the
commutator, distroying it!
Maybe it was only 1 and you can grind the copper
snot off with a dremel and sand the brushes back even
then use taller gearing.
Don't move it until you remove the brush holder to
prevent more brush damage. It's easy with just 3 small
bolts, metric though.
   Good luck, I hope I'm wrong,
  jerry dycus
  
> Gotta see what's wrong.
> The motor only has maybe 10 hours of use.  What are
> my options.  No
> warranty.  Right?  RatsI kept the amps down.
>  Only one 200 amp hill 
> for 10 seconds.  Everything after that was kept to
> 150 or less.  Mostly 
> less. Groan.The Lectra with me on it weighs
> 700 pounds..
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
> 
> 




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Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I may be wrong but my guess is that your are reading battery amps and not 
motor amps. Most Etek failures are due to overheating from too many motor 
amps. A muffin fan on the end blowing over the brushes and out the armature 
helps a great deal.

Roderick
Roderick Wilde,  President,  EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
  www.evparts.com
   1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270  Fax: 360-582-1272
   PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence 

EV digest 4060

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4060

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) help
by "Dennis D. Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Basic electronic controller question (higher battery voltage,
 than motor voltage?)
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Fuse placement
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Zilla /palm 
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) homen made contactor
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: ETEK problem found.
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Oh no.  My ETEK ate a brush?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: ETEK problem found.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Zilla /palm
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) 1999 electro truck 
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: ETEK problem found.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) (no subject)
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Basic electronic controller question (higher battery voltage, than 
motor voltage?)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Zilla /palm 
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
help



__ 
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Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Markus L wrote:
On these controllers battery amps are not equal to motor amps. 
To me this can only be if the controller is not at a 100% 
duty cycle and is due capacitors that buffer battery current
during the off cycle. So the battery may see a constant
current and the motor sees a higher pulse current. The
mean value of current over time (RMS?) should be the same, right?
Both the battery and motor see pulsed current. The average motor current 
is usually higher than the average battery current, unless you are at 
'wide open throttle' in which case the two are equal.

However the total power does stay the same for both: the batteries are 
at a high(er) voltage and lower current while the motor is at a low(er) 
voltage and higher current. Voltage x current = power.

3. the motor can be run from a higher voltage battery pack than 
the motor rated voltage?
Many wound motors can be run well beyond their rated voltage, at least 
for short lengths of time. How far they can be pushed all depends on the 
particular motor and its windings. This is true whether an electronic 
controller or a big contactor is used.

The last question I am most interested. I own an elec-trak tractor
and it usually works with 36V with a compound wound 1.2HP motor. 
If I up the voltage to 48V for the field...
I think a couple of people out there have run the ET drive motors at 48 
volts. The larger ETs (E20, C185, etc) use field weakening to get the 
top speeds, so you'd actually need to control your field to bring it 
down well below 36 volts for the same top speeds. Also note that in 
normal operation the drive motor will reach 10-12 (or 15?) HP peaks.

HOWEVER: the ETs use permanent magnet motors on the mowing deck. This 
type of motor does not take kindly to higher voltages. So if you change 
to 8 volt batteries to get 48 volts, you'd then have to have an 
additional controller for the mower deck.

_
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
> If you *do not* attach pack (+) to pack (-), and you remove a fuse
> from the middle of a string, then you will have a maximum voltage
> between any two points in the pack of half pack voltage. This makes
> it safer to work on, mostly by halving the possible places you can
> accidentally touch to get shocked.

This is true if there is *nothing* connected between pack+ and pack-.
But (for example) I have a little switching power supply across my pack
to provide power for the E-meter. It only draws a few ma, but...

One time I wanted to do some work on my battery box. I pulled the fuse
(from the middle of the string on 

EV digest 4061

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4061

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: ETEK problem found.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Nevercells
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Zilla/Palm
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Fuse placement
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: 
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) High voltage EV audio system
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: homen made contactor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: ETEK problem found.
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: Zilla interface future.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: homen made contactor
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Fuse placement
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Zilla interface future.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: Zilla interface future.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) RE: Zilla interface future.
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Myth about Shelf Life of LiIon
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) My Battery Pack Specifications
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: ETEK problem found. (extreem cooling?)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: ETEK problem found.


> Uh, do any of you guys realize that there is nothing on the ETEK to attach
> any sort of monitoring device to?  The field is PM.  The rotor and
> commutator are effectively one and the same.  There is probably an inch of
> clearance between the end bars and the frame.  By the time the frame even
> gets warm the rotor will be slagged.
>
> The only possible way to monitor the brazed end bars is with an IR
> pyrometer.  Those are cheaply available but IMHO, not worth the effort.
>
> The way to make an ETEK survive is to limit the current.  An ETEK isn't a
> hunk of pig iron like an ADC or a forklift motor.  There is almost no
> thermal mass so even momentary overloads can cause damage.
>
> BTW, those end bars are sil-phos brazed.  Sil-phos requires no flux for
> copper/copper joints and is a very common method of making internal motor
> connections.  It is available from most any HVAC distributor.  Do not
> confuse it with phos-copper.  Lacking any silver, this alloy is of much
> higher resistance.
>
> Sil-phos melts at a dull red heat.  The overcurrent must have been huge.
> Like someone else said, you must monitor and limit MOTOR current and not
> battery current.  Motor current can be twice or more what the battery
> current is.
>
> John

> ---
> John De Armond
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
Twice In my life it's 4 to 10 times... or more.
I have data on 6x.

Eteck's don't have much R or uH at all.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Westlund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> The Evertroll NiZn could push up to 500 amps, 400 amps 
> routinely without being harmed. From what I've read in the 
> archives, a 336V pack pulling 400 amps would sag to about 220 
> volts. Push it up to 500 amps and Evercel's quoted 280 watts 
> per kilogram specific power figure seems accurate, although I 
> wouldn't really push them to their limits to keep from damaging them.

220V @ 400A is 88kW or 118 battery HP.  And you're close to loading the
Evercels to 1/2 nominal voltage, so this is close to the maximum power
you can get.  Pull 500A and the voltage will sag a bit more, but power
will probably increase somewhat.

Read Rich's warning though: 300-500A will overheat NiZn in *seconds*.

Who ran a 336V string of NiZn and pulled 400A from them?

> If I'd have used smaller more expensi

EV digest 4062

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

he batteries!
Aside from being way to busy at work, I am still waiting for a good BMS 
with data collection capabilities and a thermal management (heating and 
cooling) before deploying. I at least want to know how I killed them... 
;-)

Seriously, my main concern is that we learn how to take care of them to 
get the long life (and economic benefit) that should be possible with them 
as well as the extended range.

Gary

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I plugged my e meter into the palm and was surprised to see all the numbers
flying by , there they all were , amp volts and ah , all at the same time ,
, they were really to small to read , , could the palm be used to get data
over an hour and store it from the e meter. .
Steve Clunn
I'm not sure about the hour, but there are things that can be done 
with the EVDash program that Pete Ohler wrote and generously 
provides. You can get the program for free on his website at: 
http://ohler.com/palm/EVDash.html

I was never able to get it to work in my car. I think my E-meter is 
too old and the data stream was not what it expected. Or maybe the OS 
in my Palm was too new.

You'll need to set up the Palm Desktop application on your computer 
to get the program into the Palm as well.

Have fun!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/  Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914  My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So basically you want a battery that will offer a true 50Ah at a 2C
> continuous discharge rate, be able to sustain 6C pulse rates, that weighs
> less than 30 lbs, with BMS for $87 or less?  Don't we all!
> What about volume restrictions or life cycle requirements?
>
> Now if you meant $1.75/wh, I know of a battery that can get pretty close.
> Marc Kohler

Wanna go the Tzero route? 2Ah 18650 cells for $5.20 each, 5# for 50 (don't know
how much the solder tabs adds to that weight):
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=990 - adding a
$4.50 BMS for each 7.2V-worth of batteries makes it a buck per wh -- less if
each BMS can keep a number of paralleled cells safe. 1000 cells weigh about
105#, for a 144V/50Ah pack with a 125A peak (not 6C capable). If you can keep
up with the soldering, we can hope Sony sells their 26650VT cells for a
reasonable price and add a hybrid lithium pack to give an occasional 20C burst.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
US Pre-1964 dimes, quarters and halves are made of .900 fine silver. You 
should be able to buy these fairly cheap at your local coin or pawn shop. 
Just ask to look at their .90 % or "junk" silver coins. I would think that 
5-6X face value would be sufficient, depending on the silver market. You 
might even have some laying around in your change jar or a collector 
friend/relative that has an extra. Look for early `60s Roosevelt, Washington 
or Franklins. Some Morgans too, but if you need contacts this big you should 
be named "Berube". Anyway, just please use a common date. I would hate to 
think you took my advice and ended up destroying a rare coin. David Chapman.

- Original Message - 
From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: homen made contactor


does any one have suggestions on where I could get
affordable contacts to make my own contactor relay? I
have a few solenoids laying around and $50+ seems a
little much for something I should be able to make
myself easy enough .
BCB

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Until there's an actual price on the 20C cells from Sony, there are these:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJSJ2&P=ML but that's
$3.65/wh before adding BMS.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
Couldn't find the auction you were referring to. I did see some outhouses 
going cheap and a strange looking plasma cutter in "Humptulips" but no 
electric truck anywhere in Wa. Got an item #? David Chapman.

- Original Message - 
From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: 1999 electro truck


Hi Folks there is a '99 72 volt electro truck on the gsa web site 
http://gsaauctions.gov  in Wa. closing 2/1. I wonder if it could be 
improved by going to 96 or even 120 volt? Bill

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, Mr. Local TrannyRebuilder with 25+ years in the
business is firmly convinced that my shaft is just a
bit long.
   In the Civic, there is a pilot bearing in the
middle of the flywheel, and he thinks that the shaft
is mashed up to the splines, causing stress on the
whole shaft, and that this would account for the
whine/noises at 25+ mph in first, and when under
greate

EV digest 4063

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

AIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:04 AM
Subject: Noisy adapter plate/trans. etc. in CivicWithACord


> Well, Mr. Local TrannyRebuilder with 25+ years in the
> business is firmly convinced that my shaft is just a
> bit long.
>In the Civic, there is a pilot bearing in the
> middle of the flywheel, and he thinks that the shaft
> is mashed up to the splines, causing stress on the
> whole shaft, and that this would account for the
> whine/noises at 25+ mph in first, and when under
> greater load. Sooo, I either:
> file down the shaft, or
> use washers to space the motor slightly further from
> the tranny (1/16" or so).
> If I file, I sure as heck can't add more metal after
> taking it down a shade.
> If I space, I don't like the additional wigglability
> this might give the tranny.  Plus, I'd need to caulk
> between the bell housing and adapter plate, which
> would look kind of weak, not to mention washers
> sticking out in 8-10 places around the bell...
>That leaves me leaning toward the file.
> Anybody have additional thoughts?
>
>
> --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 9:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: EA Adapter plate reliab. & torque
> > rotation ?s
> >
> >
> > > Thanks, this is helpful.  Unfortunately, the sound
> > is
> > > not present until under significant RPMs, or high
> > > load.
> > I'm wondering if it might be the tranny ,
> >
> > > These conditions are not met when on a 12V run.
> >
> > 24v will spin a 8 or 9 pritty fast without a load .
> >
> > >  Otherwise we'd have noticed the problem before
> > > installing in the vehicle...
> >
> > This is not somthing thats going to take a lot of
> > work once you have the
> > motor out. replace one bolt at a time with the
> > smaller bolts and tighten ,
> > so its in the same place , then run up to a good
> > speed , adding batteries
> > one at a time , Don't over speed your motor !!! 36v
> > is fast and will need
> > the tranny drag to slow it down.
> >
> >
> >
> > > (;-p
> > > --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would consider this last resort, but better
> > than
> > > > throwing away the
> > > > > adapter. An SCCA publication recommended doing
> > > > this, and Steve Clunn
> > > > > does something similar on his videos
> > > > (http://www.grassrootsev.com).
> > > > > Drill out the tranny bolt and pin holes
> > oversize.
> > > >
> > > > You don't even need to drill the holes bigger
> > just
> > > > use smaller bolts and
> > > > remove the pins for the test. Run the motor
> > first
> > > > with the set up you have
> > > > so you know how it sounds. Have the motor
> > sitting
> > > > with tail shaft pointing
> > > > toward the ground and tranny sitting on top , I
> > > > start off with 12v and then
> > > > 24v. You do the tapping while the motor is
> > running
> > > > so you can hear the
> > > > difference.  You may also have to release the
> > clutch
> > > > a few time to get it
> > > > centered.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolt the motor and
> > > > > tranny together tight enough it doesn't slip,
> > but
> > > > loose enough a
> > > > > mallet can budge them. Run the motor, tap the
> > > > tranny, and keep doing
> > > > > the clutch until the noise is minimized. Then
> > > > tighten the bolts all
> > > > > the way. Optionally, you could drill and drive
> > in
> > > > new locating pins
> > > > > if you wanted to make the fit repeatable.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =
> > > '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> > >
> > >  __/__|__\ __
> > >=D---/   -  - \
> > >  'O'-'O'-'
> > > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> > came out of the steering
> > wheel? Are you saving

EV digest 4064

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4064

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re Electro truck
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: ADC Motor questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Magnetic blowouts for contactors
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Duct cooling an ETEK (Re: ETEK problem found.)
by "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: My Battery Pack Specifications
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV too quiet
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Electro truck
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: Duct cooling an ETEK (Re: ETEK problem found.)
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Magnetic blowouts for contactors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Opps! Answer to decoding .TRC file
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV too quiet
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) "Bad" laptop packs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 14) Re: Re Electro truck
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Electravan rust fix
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Opps! Answer to decoding .TRC file
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) serial terminal - zilla
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Buss bars for Electravan
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Buss bars for Electravan
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: serial terminal - zilla
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Electro truck
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) RE: My Battery Pack Specifications
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) AVCON DS-50
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Buss bars for Electravan
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David ,
Try the Motorcycles & Bicycles  category the # is 030357 It expires on 
the 1st now at $1500
Good luck, Bill





Subject:
Re: 1999 electro truck
From:
"David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:
Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:40:15 -0700
To:

Bill,
Couldn't find the auction you were referring to. I did see some 
outhouses going cheap and a strange looking plasma cutter in 
"Humptulips" but no electric truck anywhere in Wa. Got an item #? David 
Chapman.

- Original Message - From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: 1999 electro truck
Hi Folks there is a '99 72 volt electro truck on the gsa web site 
http://gsaauctions.gov  in Wa. closing 2/1. I wonder if it could be 
improved by going to 96 or even 120 volt? Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No cooling needed... they have thier own internal fans.

blow the crap out of it. Find a 12 volt battery and jumper cables... Run
motor. listen for bad things.
Get some commutator stones from Grainger. Get the 3/8 by 3/8 white stones.
run motor stone motor until the com is prefectly clean. Let run on 12 volts
for about 10 hours.
It should draw less than 30 amps and run at over 1000 rpm on 12 volts. Do
this until the comm gets a light straw color or golden brown. Reinstall. Be
happy.

If you need to pull and inspect all 8 brushes. All should be polished and
show swept marks from leading edge to trailing edge. Replace any that are
cracked chipped or worn much more than others. All 8 should be withing .250
of the length of each other. Look for melted copper brush leads, or loose
and damaged leads.
If the slots have copper or are stuffed full of carbon, scrape it out with a
steel screw driver. Blow out dust.
Then spin it for ever.


It's pretty simple motor service...

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" 
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: ADC Motor questions


> I got my new (used) motor (ADC FB1-4001-A) on the bench and gave a good
looking over. It had been
> sitting in a car, in the pine forrest, for about ten years. It spun
freely, the brushes had plenty
> of life left, the commutator looked ok, all the connections looked good,
even touched it in a few
> places with a meter. It looked like it would fire right up if I applied a
little juice.
> Consideri

EV digest 4065

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4065

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Buss bars for Electravan
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) RE: My Battery Pack Specifications
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: serial terminal - zilla
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: serial terminal - zilla
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Buss bars for Electravan
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) What's the pitch?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) RE: Buss bars for Electravan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: What's the pitch?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: What's the pitch?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: What's the pitch?
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Aux battery drain & charging rates
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Aux battery drain & charging rates
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Aux battery drain & charging rates
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: serial terminal - zilla
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: What's the pitch?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) EVLN(CSmonitor looks at Tango & PIHs)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) EVLN(EVs go where polluters can't)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

Ryan Bohm wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> John Wayland - this post is for you! :)
>
> This is way out in dream-land, but a quiz just got canceled at school which 
> gave my brain some free-time.  If you wanted to put in an awesome stereo 
> system, you'd have to get beefier DC/DC's...or why couldn't someone put out a 
> high-voltage audio amp?  Anyone know of something like that?  I could see a 
> niche market there - EV's with kicking stereo systems.  It would be the new 
> fad :)  Every low-rider would be selling their rig to get an EV.  Who cares 
> if it only goes 20 miles, it blows all the other stereo systems away!
>
> -Ryan

As some have pointed out, 12V based high end car amps already use high voltage, 
via
built-in DC-DC converters that step thing up to + and - power supply rails. In 
addition,
the power supply is regulated in most cases. Running off an EV's HV pack, 
though it sounds
good on the surface, is a bad idea. The best sounding amps are usually class AB 
that need
+ and - supplies, so you'd have to use a tapped pack, like Steve Clunn said:


> I was thinking about this a while ago , if you used a 120v  pack , split in
> the middle you would have 60v + and - which would make a good amp power
> supply .
>
>
The EV pack swings wildly, in the case of a 120 vdc pack, from lows of 80V 
under high
current draws, to highs of 150V under charge. Because of this, the supply would 
have to be
regulated, big time. Audio circuits are very sensitive to electrical noise in 
the power
supply, too. This would then, involve DC-DC conversion of some kind...you've 
now lost one
of the advantages you were looking for, over the conventional 12V based car 
amp. While
you're now converting via a DC-DC, the tapped pack thing is no longer needed, 
as it can be
done in the conversion process.

Yes, it seems like a lot of lost efficiency going from a high voltage EV pack, 
through a
DC-DC to make 12V, then through another DC-DC inside the car amp to get things 
back up to
high voltage again, but inside the car amp conversion process, a lot of needed 
filtering,
isolation, and power manipulation is taking place. So, even if you started with 
a high
voltage power source, you'd still need to spit it plus and minus, regulate it, 
filter it,
etc., etc. The conversion type EV already has to have a 12V source to run 
stuff, and,
there's hundreds of high quality car amps designed to run this way, so from a 
practical
standpoint, it's a lot easier to keep things the way they are.

That said.for my 'Hyster from Hell' project, I've got this 2-3 kw audio 
power level
I'm shooting for. At one ton, I've got all the battery power on board I need to 
make BIG
power for long periods of time. The problem as I see it, is making 12V at very 
high
current for the high power car audio amps, from the 24V forklift battery. It 
would take
some very hefty DC-DC converters, on the order of 4-6 kw of power. I 'could' 
tap the
battery, as the inter-cell straps are all external, but the old bug-a-boo of 
unevenly
discharging cells would come into play. I've got

EV digest 4066

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4066

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) EVLN(Forbes Backseat Driver Not So Smart)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) EVLN(Story gets more mileage than Ranger EV)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) EVLN(Stonemart EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) EVLN(University's Tiger Truck EV)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: High voltage EV audio system OT: White Zombie and other stuff
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Electromatic motor
by NMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Give your feedback on PHEV article
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Aux battery drain & charging rates
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) one more: CBS News
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) pusher trailer info
by "Jim Lockwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: pusher trailer info
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: pusher trailer info
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Prius Batteries
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Forbes Backseat Driver Not So Smart)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.forbes.com/global/2005/0207/056.html
Backseat Driver
Not So Smart
Jerry Flint , 02.07.05

The concept of the tiny Smart car made no sense from Day One.
Even leaders of the automobile industry at times forget what a
car is about.  More From Jerry Flint 2003 Loeb Award Winner

Every auto company makes mistakes. Usually it's poor
execution--weak design, sloppy handling, zipless engines or
misunderstanding a market. But sometimes the bosses just forget
what an automobile is supposed to be. They get carried away with
an idea and spend hundreds of millions, or even billions, of
dollars to build a vehicle that makes no sense.

Examples: General Motors' electric car in 1997, a two-seater with
a range of 40 to 80 miles.
[...]
-


=
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter

' 
~/__|o\__
'@- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
= Undo Petroleum Everywhere



__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Story gets more mileage than Ranger EV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Stories/0%2C1413%2C207~12041~2677790%2C00.html
Article Published: Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:55:26 PM PST

William Korthof , 26, of Pomona owns a 199 Ford Ranger EV an
electric truck. Ford has discontinued the electric program and
Korthof was one of two that held a sit in at a dealership in
Sacramento to persuad Ford to sell them the cars January 27.
2005.

(Staff Photo Keith Birmingham/) Electrifying deal Ford
sells discontinued truck to Pomona man for $1 By Joe Florkowski
Staff Writer

POMONA -- Bill Korthof is seemingly the ideal Ford customer.

He loves his 1999 Ford Ranger EV, which he began leasing in
December 2000.

In fact, the 26-year-old Pomona resident has driven about 60,000
miles in the electric vehicle, which can go about 80 miles on one
charge of its battery.

But despite being a satisfied customer, Korthof battled until
last week with the company over his Ranger. Ford Motor Co., which
is scrapping its electric vehicle fleet, wanted to reclaim the
vehicle.

Korthof refused and, with another Ford EV owner, held a week-long
sit-in outside a Sacramento Ford dealership.

"Somebody's got to step up and make the commitment to help move
this technology forward,' he said.

Ford officials finally relented after the sit-in and offered to
sell the car to Korthof for $1, he said.

Korthof, who has made more than $18,000 in lease payments on the
Ranger, said he's satisfied with the outcome.

"This is in Ford's interest because they have a satisfied
customer,' he said.

Dealing in alternative sources of en

EV digest 4067

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4067

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Prius Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Electromatic motor
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Reduction gear for electric motor in direct drive setup without 
differential
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) EVLN(Davis pih objective: "get the car companies to build these things")
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) EVLN(Virginia hybrids clog hov lanes in Wash D.C. suburbs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re:  pusher trailer info
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re:  pusher trailer info
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: serial terminal - zilla
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re:  pusher trailer info
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Ampabout ... smaller, lighter, meaner and greener
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Semicad nicad
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re:  pusher trailer info
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Zinc batteries that get consumed
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: pusher trailer info
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 19) Re:  pusher trailer info
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) data acquisition kit info 
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: Electromatic motor
by "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Semicad nicad
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: data acquisition kit info 
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
To give you some ideal of what it takes to drive a certain weight at a 
certain speed at a generator KW input.  My car was tested with this set up 
back in 1977 at Detroit, Michingon.

The car call TRANSFORMER I weighs 7850 lbs.  Plug in a engine-generator 
which consist of a 3 phase 37.5 KW alternator which can deliver 180 volts at 
300 amps to a 165 volt GE motor that ran at 92 mph.

This increase the range from 80 miles to 500 miles on 20 gallons of gas.

With a control console in the car, we can start up the generator unit, 
running the power directly to the controller and/or charge the battery while 
running the power to the controller at a lower ampere.  Remember, you cannot 
charge the battery and used it at the same time.

This takes a multiple of double pole selector type of contactors to do this.

Roland


- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Lockwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: pusher trailer info


> application... add a pusher trailer to a small ev pickup weight of approx.
> 2700 lbs, need to add another 60 miles to distance
> traveled...using a wisconsin air cooled 65 h.p. engine, belt or chain 
> drive
> for highway use.
> any ideas or problems seen?
> thanks
> jim
>
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank,
Yes, they are available via the used car parts companies many of which are on 
the web. I used one to get a quote of $600 for the batteries from a gen 1 
Prius. I searched for "electric motor" then sent an email out for scrap heap 
parts companies to bid on. Got a response in 24 hours with the name of the yard 
and price. I didn't look to hard to see if I could beat it elsewhere. 

The source for these parts are wrecked (HEV) cars and there are plenty. In 
fact there is a 2004 model at a junk yard near my house that will be auctioned 
off in the next couple of weeks. 

Mike Bachand
www.DEVC.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What applictations are those two motors currently used for 
in the industry(non ev)?

Someone on this list has used one or both of them.  What is 
the story on those motors vs's an 8" or 9" motor?

Is saying an 8" or 9" are "small blocks" and the 11" and 13" 
are "big blocks" accurate?

Anyone have any hp/tq numbers on the two bigger motors?  How 
much voltage can they take?

Do the 8" and 9" motors redline at like 5,000rpm?  What do 
the two bigger motors redline at?

Are DC motors currently as advanced as they are ever going 
to get?  Are these four motor choices the only foreseeable 
choices as far as DC motors go?

Why are there like 15 different AC motor choices?  What are 
those motor/controller/gearboxes currently used for in the 
industry(non ev)?  Is it possible to get an AC car in the 
"100 mph club"?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The concept is flawed.  If it was applied to a
frictionless vehicle in a vacuum it would still have
the losses acquired in transforming

EV digest 4068

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

any that makes them and their EV-related 
business...

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/uav-05l.html

Arotech's Batteries To Develop Zinc-Air Batteries For UAVs

New York (SPX) Jan 31, 2005
Arotech Corporation has announced that its Batteries and Power Systems 
Division has received a second development contract from a major US 
agency. Under the contract, Arotech's Electric Fuel Battery Corporation 
subsidiary will develop prototype zinc-air batteries for small unmanned 
aerial vehicles (UAVs) to achieve extended flight times. The funding is 
expected to cover development costs.

Arotech has previously announced contracts with an Israeli Defense Agency 
to develop prototype zinc-air batteries for Micro Aerial Vehicles (MAVs) 
and has demonstrated that its 4th generation zinc-air batteries achieve 
longer mission durations than that of high performance Lithium batteries.

In addition, this novel technology is being funded separately by BAA and 
Plus Up frameworks.

"We have developed very high-power, lightweight batteries from our most 
advanced zinc-air cells, to extend the flight time of small UAVs and 
MAVs," said Robert S. Ehrlich, Arotech Chairman and CEO.

"The Unmanned Aerial Vehicle market is growing and we are excited by the 
success of our 4th generation technology to extend flight times of these 
vehicles."


---

http://www.electric-fuel.com/ev/index.shtml

About the Electric Vehicle Division

The Electric Vehicle Divsion's mission is to bring about the deployment of 
commercial numbers of zero-emission zinc-air electric buses in fleets of 
transit systems and school districts, providing zero-emission 
transportation at reasonable costs.

Electric Fuel's revolutionary zinc-air fuel cell technology has been 
demonstrated in tens of thousands of kilometers of on-road driving in 
vehicles ranging in size up to 4.8 ton delivery vans in the service of 
European postal systems.

Phase IV of the FTA Zero emission zinc-air bus project, announced in 
September 2003, is dedicated to exploring the steps necessary for 
commercializing the all-electric zinc-air/ultracapacitor hybrid bus. In 
August 2004, a performance evaluation test will take place in Rome, New 
York. During the frst three phases in 2001, 2002 and 2003, milestones and 
various performance tests and on road bus demonstrations were successfully 
completed. A demonstration of the all-electric bus in Albany, NY, on 
November 6, 2003 marked the finalization of Phase III of the Zinc-Air All 
Electric Transit Bus program.

And in Germany, the zinc-air electric van consortium has completed its 
multi-year government-funded program by successfully demonstrating the 
zinc-air van on-road. Consortium organizers expressed hopes that the 
program will lead to the future commercialization of high performance, 
clean electric transportation based on these technologies. 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't seem to recognize those batteries Lawrence, what are you using and
what voltage? Looks like a nice fit up. Too bad about that motor, sure you
will get it going again tho. Hope you didn't hurt the body work.

David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque

- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" ; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:26 PM
Subject: The Lectra comes home on a Harbor Freight cycle carrier I designed.


> Here are some pictures of the Lectra and the carrier I made from two
Harbor
> Freight items.  A 500 pound carrier and the 1000 pound ramp.  Each ramp
> holds 500 pounds.  I bolted one ramp on the carrier and put a piece of
wood
> in the middle and reversed on to the hooks to stop the bike from jumping
off
> the rack while loading.   The other ramp gets the bike on the carrier.  A
> couple of safety stands stablize one side of the rack while loading for
> safety.  The Lectra is around 450 lb.  The rack is 50 lb.  It cost me 80
> bucks to build plus a little for hooks and fender washers and such.  $6.99
> for four very strong tiedowns.  One shows the bike sans the motor(groan)
> Harbor Freight has several racks and ramps.  Online you can get things not
> available from the retail store.  They have one 500 pound rack for $29.00
a
> real bargain.
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra1.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra2.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra3.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra4.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra5.JPG
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My wife and I were g

EV digest 4069

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4069

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re:  pusher trailer info
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Hub Motors, have anyone used these yet?
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Control question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors (Zinc air URL's)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Klemkosky, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Control question
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Control question
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) EV letters to editor in The Christian Science Monitor
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Hub Motors,  In Oakland, CA 
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions (dyno)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: pusher trailer info
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions (dyno)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) NiZN source
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions (Goldie)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: High voltage EV audio system
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions (Goldie)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: NiZn source
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Zombie Dyno Time & the 2005 1/4 Mile Drag Season.
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: NiZn source
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Semicad.totoi NiCad batteries
by Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: Control question
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Grrr, I did say tadpole didn't I?  My mistake, my last trike was a
tadpole, current design is a "Delta" trike.  Sorry about that.

Be careful with the caster wheel design.  I've never tried one, but I've
read that they can be very unstable at speed.  Among other potential
problems, if you aren't careful with your design, it can end up moving
your center of ballance outward when cornering, which is exactly the
opposite of what you want to happen.

I did quite a lot of drawings/CAD work on my first trike and only a couple
mockups.  I ended up with a trike that was functional and comfortable to
sit on, but cumbersom to mount/dismount even without the fairing on.  Once
I started to add a fairing, it became obvious that I'd need to be a
contortionist.

The main problem was my handlebars.  I was using a tall "T" type arrangement.
Here is a link to a picture of the trike near completion:
http://www.vanderwal.us/ev/ebike/heh/p_trike.jpg

You can see the handlebars a bit better in this photo of just the frame:
http://www.vanderwal.us/ev/ebike/heh/p_frame.jpg

The problems with the T handle design:
A) it needed to be high enough and far enough back to avoid hitting it
with my legs while pedalling.
B) needed to be low enough that I could see over it.
C) needed to be far enough forward that it didn't hit my chest.

This leaves a pretty small region where the handlebars could be located. 
Mounting the trike from the side was a bit awkward, but doable, however
trying to mount from above (i.e. like climbing into the cockpit of a
fighter jet) was really a pain.  Trying to do it with a fairing on,
without standing on the fairing, was ..well, let's just say I gave up on
the idea.

One possible solution is to move the handlebars up and forward, so they
end up over your knees.  I didn't like this because either you end up
blocking your vision or moving your head up to see over.  Neither option
was acceptable to me.

So, even though it tend to make your frontal area larger, I've decided to
go with something like Under Seat Steering (USS) instead of Above Seat
Steering (ASS)  (don't blame me, I don't make these acronyms up)

Anyway, the point (that I'm getting to in a round about way) is that I
think mockups (even if they are made of cardboard and bailing wire) are
more important than drawings/CAD.  It's really hard to model ergonomics on
a computer unles

EV digest 4070

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4070

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re:  electric tadpole was pusher trailer info
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) SCR Was: Zombie Dyno Time
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: NiZn source, stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: NiZn source
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions, EVs on Dynos
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: electric tadpole was pusher trailer info
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: electric tadpole was pusher trailer info
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: SCR Was: Zombie Dyno Time
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re:  electric tadpole was pusher trailer info
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) FI gets hybrid tech,Toyota>Li-ions,GM>20%,consumer gets LARGE hybrids
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) EVLN(The Power of Enthusiasts, Prius EV mode button)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

be careful with the caster wheel design.


I am. I rode a rear steer tadpole about 250 miles last
month. it was not electrified and it was a bit
squirley when going down hill at 40 mph but other than
that it was a joy.  I am modifying this basic design
and hope to have an electrically powered one this
summer. but my goal is to go only 20 mph max.  of
coarse i want to have the capability to do this up
hill as well as down and on level ground.  since it
uses a pair of joysticks to controll it there is none
of the difficult entry and exit problem.


I like your trike what happened to it?


 I've never
> tried one, but I've
> read that they can be very unstable at speed.  Among
> other potential
> problems, if you aren't careful with your design, it
> can end up moving
> your center of ballance outward when cornering,
> which is exactly the
> opposite of what you want to happen.
> 
> I did quite a lot of drawings/CAD work on my first
> trike and only a couple
> mockups.  I ended up with a trike that was
> functional and comfortable to
> sit on, but cumbersom to mount/dismount even without
> the fairing on.  Once
> I started to add a fairing, it became obvious that
> I'd need to be a
> contortionist.
> 
> The main problem was my handlebars.  I was using a
> tall "T" type arrangement.
> Here is a link to a picture of the trike near
> completion:
> http://www.vanderwal.us/ev/ebike/heh/p_trike.jpg
> 
> You can see the handlebars a bit better in this
> photo of just the frame:
> http://www.vanderwal.us/ev/ebike/heh/p_frame.jpg
> 
> The problems with the T handle design:
> A) it needed to be high enough and far enough back
> to avoid hitting it
> with my legs while pedalling.
> B) needed to be low enough that I could see over it.
> C) needed to be far enough forward that it didn't
> hit my chest.
> 
> This leaves a pretty small region where the
> handlebars could be located. 
> Mounting the trike from the side was a bit awkward,
> but doable, however
> trying to mount from above (i.e. like climbing into
> the cockpit of a
> fighter jet) was really a pain.  Trying to do it
> with a fairing on,
> without standing on the fairing, was ..well, let's
> just say I gave up on
> the idea.
> 
> One possible solution is to move the handlebars up
> and forward, so they
> end up over your knees.  I didn't like this because
> either you end up
> blocking your vision or moving your head up to see
> over.  Neither option
> was acceptable to me.
> 
> So, even though it tend to make your frontal area
> larger, I've decided to
> go with something like Under Seat Steering (USS)
> instead of Above Seat
> Steering (ASS)  (don't blame me, I don't make these
> acronyms up)
> 
> Anyway, the point (that I'm getting to in a round
> about way) is that I
> think mockups (even if they are made of cardboard
> and bailing wire) are
> more important than drawings/CAD.  It's really hard
> to model ergonomics on
> a computer unless you have some really expensive
> software and a lot of
> training.
> 
> FWIW, it takes roughly 200 watts to propell the
> average person, on a
> standard bicycle, over flat terrain, at 20 mph.
> 
> A rough calculation on how much power it would
> require to move a 200lb
> vehicle with a 165lb rider (average weight) up a 5%
> incline, comes out to
> right at 1kw of input power.
> 
> So it sounds like you've got a good design so far.
> 
> > snip
> >  25-35 mph.
> > I was thinking 20mph max speed
> >
> >
> > Fancy that: I too am working on a tadpole opposite
> > configutation though-- two driven side wheels and
> a
> > caster rear wh

EV digest 4071

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

ket, which accounts for 35 percent of its group
sales, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun said.

Fuji Heavy on its part is considering supplying Toyota technology
with lithium-ion batteries it has developed with electronics
maker NEC for use in hybrid vehicles, the economic daily said
without citing sources.

Working-level talks on the technical cooperation have already
been taking place, with Toyota president Cho Fujio and his Fuji
Heavy counterpart Kyoji Takenaka set to enter negotiation soon,
it said.

No immediate comment on the report was available from Toyota.

Hybrids run on either its gasoline engine or on its electric
motor depending on driving conditions, making them much more
economical and environmentally-friendly than conventional
gasoline engines.

Toyota has pioneered the use of green technologies with its
Prius, the world's first mass-produced hybrid car.

US auto giant General Motors, the top shareholder in Fuji Heavy
with a 20 percent stake, has formed a partnership with German-US
DaimlerChrysler to jointly develop hybrid vehicle technology.

But the Nihon Keizai said that the alliance was likely to focus
on technology for use in large vehicles rather than vehicles with
engine displacements of around three liters, Fuji Heavy's
strength. - AFP Agence France Presse. All rights reserved.
-




=
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter

' 
~/__|o\__
'@- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
= Undo Petroleum Everywhere

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence, great undertaking!

Classes like this will really help to build enthusiasm - there are lots of
people who want build an EV, they just need a start.

Don




Victoria, BC, Canada
 
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: February 2, 2005 3:28 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Zappylist;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; SFEAA;
ETList
Subject: Build your own ELECTRIC VEHICLE class. In San Francisco.

Class will be the next three Tuesdays in February.  6:00 PM.  Bernal
Library.  The class will cover everything from Scooters to Full size Cars. 
The class will discuss theory and practical application.  No charge for the
class.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,

What brand of batteries are you using (before and after) ?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 2:46 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions



- Original Message -
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions


> I don't think John knows about anything But Violent settings!!!
> The dyno Roland short for Dynomometer...
>
OH, I left off the NO and went right to the MO.

Also, when you reduce the Amp Hour rating and maximum charging rating of a
battery, than don't you reduce the performance?

I reduce the 300 amp pack at max charge to 250 volts on a 189 volt pack at
1.300 S.G. to 260 amp hour at a max charge to 232.5 at 1.275 S.G. on a 180
volt pack.

The float back voltage is now 189 volts and sags to 175 volts at only a 200
battery amp. The batteries are rated at 800 amps.














> Clearly shows that Watts into a motor and force out are not perfect!!!
> And in a Brushed DC motor... they are quite a bit different.
>
> You have all your losses in the picture, as well as a %45 loss
> Wow...
>
> %45 loss on the first pull and %47 loss on the second.
> This is about what I am predicting on Series wound DC machines...
> It should get a LOT worse when we go over 1000 amps, and be obsene at over
> 1750 amps...
> but Fun!
>
> Alot of these losses can be reduced with just a minor amount of motor
> improvements.
> In most of our cases... it's not improvements that matter it's basic Motor
> seviceGood Bearings?, full brush contact? Brushes set for planed
> service
> applications??? All the copper properley torqued and cleaned
>
> I think I am going to have a shop full of U of Washington Students  this
> weekend... they want to play with my dyno. Maybe I will get them to help
> set
> it up and pull some real data? This could really help in the BS reduction
> Factor..
>
> I have not had the time... but... with many hands, and bright
> mindsthere
> are po

EV digest 4072

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4072

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) More military NiCads up for auction
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Control question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) NiFE cells, was Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re:  More military NiCads up for auction
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
hi evan
i agree totally that the data was unlikely to be hard
from my recomendation
however i would get some fun from it
as to building a test rig  with one car tire at the
back - no problem
see - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
for the last stupid test rig i built
all of the factors like drag etc would of course be
the same in my test so they wouldn't affect the rating
of one tyre as better than another
regards
reb


no  --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Hi Richard,
>   That's basically what I'm doing, except I only
> need one tyre, and
> eliminate brake, steering and transmission drag, air
> resistance,
> driver influence, etc etc.  Doing comparisons on the
> road is OK to say
> "these tyres are better than this one" but it's not
> giving me a number
> to put into calculations.
> Also, car tyres don't fit very well on karts or
> bikes :)
> 
> Regards
> Evan.
> 
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:09:19 + (GMT), richard
> ball
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > how about
> > build a test rig go kart / bike
> > find a long hill
> > time yourself over a set distance
> > fit a different tire
> > try again
> > empirical data is always better than theory
> > admitedly this will only give you comparative data
> but
> > it seems we are only looking for which tyre is
> > 1st,2nd,3rd etc
> > does any one really care about numerical
> statistics or
> > are we trying to find out which is best ?
> > please feel free to comment if you think this is a
> > stupid idea
> > if you are looking for a kart/hill/driver - here i
> am
> > just send me a big pile of tires and i'll gladly
> test
> > them out.
> > regards
> > reb
> > 
> > 
> >  --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >   Well, I have an old trailer hub that I could
> use.
> > > I would fix it to
> > > a long beam and support the end on a pivot, the
> hub
> > > will have the test
> > > tyre mounted and then I will use a spring
> balance to
> > > see how much
> > > force is needed to start the tyre moving and
> keep it
> > > moving for a
> > > short distance.  I could load the beam with an
> > > appropriate weight.
> > > The drawback is that the tyre is moving in a
> circle,
> > > albeit quite a
> > > big one.  I am open to suggestions though :)
> > >
> > > On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:55:43 -0500, Philip
> Marino
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > How do you plan to test the tires?
> > > >
> > > > Phil Marino
> > > >
> > > > >From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > > >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > > >Subject: low rolling resistance tyres
> > > > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:25:26 +
> > > > >
> > > > >I have been looking in the EVDL archives and
> on
> > > the web for rolling
> > > > >resistance coefficients of available car and
> > > motorcycle tyres, and
> > > > >have not found much.  I have contacted
> several
> > > tyre companies and will
> > > > >post any data here but I don't expect to get
> much
> > > back from them.
> > > > >  I have also asked a local tyre place which
> > > sells part-worn tyres, to
> > > > >give me some e.g. popular brands with
> punctures
> > > or sidewall damage to
> > > > >do comparison tests and hopefully calculate
> coe
> > > figures for them, but
> > > > >that might take some time.
> > > > >Does anyone have any numbers to share?   All
> the
> > > tyre brochures say is
> > > > >"20% less rolling resistance!"  - compared to
> > > what?!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
_

EV digest 4073

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4073

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Control question
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: NiFE cells, was Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Build your own ELECTRIC VEHICLE class.  In San Francisco.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 14) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 17) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Life After Woodburn ( The Trilogy ) - Links into archive.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Solar trike (open-source project)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Source for GE motor brushes?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> I would appreciate it if the successful bidder would offer me a hundred or
> so cells at cost :-).  I was going to bid, but I can't handle that
> quantity right now.

Call I-10 surplus in Tucson AZ.  Last time I was there (over a year ago)
they had about a dozen pallets stacked 6-8 feet high full of surplus
aircraft NiCads (they come from the planes/jets/'copters etc in the bone
yard)

They sell them pretty cheap and will pack them up and ship them.  They
have tons (literally) of the 20 AH size and I believe some of the 34 and
maybe 40 AH left.

I think I paid something like $2 - $2.50 a cell.  They came in nice
stainless steel battery boxes with 19-20 cells each plus nickle plated
interconnects and he threw in 20 cells for free because he figures some of
the ones I bought would be bad.  I paid for 230 cells (12 batteries
actually).

I- 10 Surplus
5300 N. Casa Grande Hwy. Tucson AZ. 85743
Phone (520) 293-2930 FAX(520) 293-0567
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Getting info together. Would you be interested in driving down with me 
to pick up? I'm probably going to need help.

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chris, I was just gonna propose the same to you.
Count me in.
Mad Mike Shipway
Baltimore county, MD
21207

-Original Message-
From: Christopher Zach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2005 07:47 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: More military NiCads up for auction

32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
Ok, time to put money where mouth is. I'd be interested in bidding on 
this, getting a truck down there, and picking the darn things up. I even 
have a hand pallet jack and live in MD (could rent a truck with a gate). 
Heck I could pack my E20 in the truck and use it to tow the pallets 
around if needed.

*BUT* There is no way in heck that I can handle that many batteries. My 
wife would cry, my neighbors would be impressed, and I don't need that much.

So who wants to go in on this with me. Each person commits to bidding 
$500 for this lot, if the final auction is less than $500*number of 
people we refund the difference. In any case we also split the cost of 
the truck evenly and you either fly out to pick up your share, or pay to 
have it put into a U store.

Thoughts?
Chris


SAFT PN 017371-000
below is a small excerpt
Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
Requirement Statement  Clear Text Reply
ITEM NAME  BATTERY,STORAGE
TERMINAL QUANTITY  2
TERMINAL TYPE  TAP-SCREW
OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
TEMP RATING-22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
OVERALL WIDTH  1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
CASE MATERIAL  PLASTIC
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE  

EV digest 4074

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4074

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Bob Salem's Hot VW Pickup
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Source for GE motor brushes?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Emergency disconnect
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Emergency disconnect
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Build your own Electric Vehicle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) (no subject)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Emergency disconnect
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW Pickup
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I wrote earlier:
>> True, but motor/engine torque (net) is not able to be calculated unless
you
>> know its rpm.

Victor wrote:
No, the torque is not calculated, it is measured. You meant hp
cannot be calculated; for that indeed you need to know RPM

The hp can be calculated at the roller because you don't need motor rpm, for
that you need the torque measured at the roller and the rollers rpm (ft/lbs
* rpm / 5252 = hp). To calculate the motors torque you need to know the
motors rpm.

Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for posting the info. I'm especially interested, since I'm
putting a Kostov 11 incher into my conversion, and I want to race,
too.

How many amps are you putting through the motor? Have you
experimented to find the max amps possible? If yes, how did you do
your experiment? Have you witnessed any arcing problems? How did you
decide on 240 Volts? Many thanks for the answers.

One way I'm going off the beaten path is I'm doing the Sepex Kostov.
Hopefully that'll give me constant power, so if I'm lucky I can make
170 hp at 2000 rpm, and 170 hp at 5000 rpm -- we'll see if reality
matches my hopes.

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a 11 inch Kostov. I think the 11 WarP was built to replace
> the kostov.
> I run at 240 volts and have had it on a jet Dyno.
> 400 ft-lbs 170 hp at 2000 rpm, 100 ft-lbs 100 hp at 5000.
> I run it to 5500 rpm all the time. I have had it up to 6200 rpm
> without
> it falling apart.
> 
> This may be over stating the facts but 400 ft-lbs at low speeds
> breaks
> alots of things .. transmissions, cvt joints, clutches, shafts.
> Have replaced
> all many times($$$).
> 
> Next step is new dot street drag radials.
> 
> My best ever 15.331 @90.85 mph at Woodburn 2004.
> I think I have the fastest front wheel ev.(Rich used to be!)
> I think I am the fastest single motor SC/b ev also.(Anybody faster
> ??)
> 
> When you are up aginst Wayland and Omtar bragging rights are hard
> to find.(:>)


=




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 7:55 PM -0800 2-3-05, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Mark Farver wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Yes.. but the signal is low current.  The LV dyno probe is an 
inductive pickup designed to key into the fairly large 12v current 
spikes leading into the ignition module.  We tried the Siemens tach 
signal and with just the factory tach attached the current pulses 
were not high

EV digest 4075

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4075

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Bob Salem's Hot VW Pickup
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "David Roden " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions (tach)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Turnabout trailor
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Charging cord ejection
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Madman's 100mph no BS club
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Good flooded battery dealer in DFW/Austin, TX area?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Turnabout trailer
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Turnabout trailer
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Turnabout trailer
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Turnabout trailer
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Electric camping trailer with generator,  Re: Turnabout trailer
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Liquid Tin
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: (no subject)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) Re: Liquid Tin
by Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Liquid Tin
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 28) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar,
Which tach are you talking about, stock in ICE cars or dyno stand?
My tach in Honda works perfectly with 12V pulses supplied,
and so does Sheer's. In fact if normal automotive tachs
would require 60V or so (which with 12V systems makes no sense),
you'd think Siemens would make such output available to drive
stock tachometers in cars?
Victor
Otmar wrote:
At 7:55 PM -0800 2-3-05, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Mark Farver wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Yes.. but the signal is low current.  The LV dyno probe is an 
inductive pickup designed to key into the fairly large 12v current 
spikes leading into the ignition module.  We tried the Siemens tach 
signal and with just the factory tach attached the current pulses 
were not high enough to trigger the sensor.

Are you sure you wired it correctly? It's open drain output, did you use
a pull up resistor to the +12V rail?
Still, this is a "signal" signal, not a driver to do some work on any 
load. So reasonable load like tachometer it can drive, few hundred mA.

Victor,
Many tachometers require 60V to trigger. For that your pull-up resistor 
will not work at all. You'll need a circuit like the one I built using 
the circuit supplied by Stan Witherspoon on the EVtech list.
Here is the circuit:

Here is what actually worked:
   + 12 -++
 ||
 >|
~ 73 Ohm (3x 220 ohm >|
   1 W  in parallel) >|
 ||
   White || Green
  R S )||(RS
   +12)||(273-1380
 isolated  |8 ohm )||( 1k ohm
+12V   >  )||(
  |  10K   > Red || Blue
  >> |+---> to tach
   15K>| c |/
  >   ++---|  TIP29
  |   |  e |\
__|_|/   |
\  /| 4N37   |
_\/_|\  Gnd
  Square wave |   |
  From V/F+  Gnd
Otmar and anyone else, feel free to use this circuit or any
modifications.

And then there was Waylands Datsun tach which seemed to require a 2 amp 
pulse to trigger, yet another circuit I built. (If anyone need this let 
me know, I can find a diagram)

hth,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andre' Blanchard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> As far as the tires growing.  When the car is chained to a
> dyno, do the tires grow at the same rate as they 

EV digest 4076

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4076

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) DC/DC Converter manual?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Good flooded battery dealer in DFW/Austin, TX area?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Charging cord ejection
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Used Hawkers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Source for GE motor brushes?
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Used Hawkers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) High Voltage - let go!
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Madman's 100mph no BS club
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Sick EV Humor Revisited
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Sick EV Humor Revisited
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: DC/DC Converter manual?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) RE: High Voltage - let go!
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The chassis dyno cannot account for the unknown drivetrain losses, so
all it can give you is rear wheel HP and torque referred back to the
motor shaft.
Every professional rolling road dyno I've ever seen is capable of estimating 
driveline losses from a coastdown. The accuracy of this varies, but it's a 
standard procedure to give you a 'flywheel' figure. You have to do this test 
anyway or otherwise you'll get a lower figure than you should due to the 
extra tyre losses associated from running them on a roller, rathe than a 
flat road. It should be noted that motorcycle trye manufacturers recommend 
that tyres used for dyno runs should not be used on the road or track 
afterwards due to the stress put on the carcase.

Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Concerning the "Maniac Mazda", we have raced it licensed and insured but
>due to the modifications I think it would be very unfair and unsportsman
>like to try and pass it off as a street conversion class vehicle.

 How so? From what I've seen, it's not any farther from "street" than the
Zombie is, maybe a bit closer since it has a working tranny. Bring that
rotary rocket out of retirement.

David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another day another battery reconfiguration, but then again I have never 
paid for a battery on this project, so what do I expect.  I loved my 
motorcycle when it had the 8 Saft Nicad modules on it.  I could easily get 
it up to 60 mph and had a solid 30 - 40 miles range.  I never liked the way 
it looked however with those big bulky batteries strapped on it, and I 
always had problems with my chain alignment in order to make space for the 
batteries.  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/497.html

When the Safts started to die off and I only had 6 good ones left I decided 
to remount the motor to take care of the chain alignment and have everything 
ready to drop in that dream pack of batteries some day.  I started 
collecting aircraft starter NiCad's and found some very nice looking battery 
boxes that fit well on the bike, while tooling around town on a very range 
limited set of UPS AGMs.  I was excited about  the thought of having a nice 
clean looking bike finally, and was optimistic that with the new NiCads I 
could still have enough range to make the 17 miles to John Wayland's house.  
Unfourtunately as I started collecting the Nicads I found that most of them 
were not delivering in the high 30 ahr range I was hoping for.  High 20's 
and low 30's was more th

EV digest 4077

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4077

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Used Hawkers
by "Mr23" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: DC/DC Converter manual?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Sick EV Humor Revisited
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) ~OT:  Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Big AC motor on Ebay
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Shunt, Fuses and Cable Connectors for sale
by "Jeff Dobereiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) EPIC info
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) RE: EPIC info
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout).
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout).
by "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've used 3 of these in an Electrak E16 for the past couple of years (bought 
at the same time as Lee's first set), and as many know the E16 typically 
draws less than 100amps. I've used mine for mowing, pushing snow with the 
blade, odd jobs, and running around the yard with one of the kids on my 
lap... The voltage stiffness over the floodeds the ET formerly had made it 
snappy to drive, and the significant weight drop is easier on the lawn. The 
150lbs of batteries is enough for my 1/2 acre lot mowing, and is enough to 
clear my 50 foot double wide driveway, and about 100 feet of street from my 
driveway to the corner.  Plenty for my use.

-Chris
- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Used Hawkers


http://www.industrialliquidators.com/wesell/batteries.html
Are these the same Hawkers everyone likes so much?
$39.95, 51AH, 52lbs.
No; they are Hawker UPS batteries. They would work in an EV, but aren't
really built for high currents.
We bought 12 of them surplus for our BEST kid's EVs about 5 years ago,
and then 4 more two years ago from ABC Electronics in Minneapolis MN.
The price was about half of what these guys want.
They have worked out very well in our application, but we limit max
current to 20-30 amps with a circuit breaker. The ones that haven't been
dropped, run dead and left for 6 months, or charged in the reverse
direction (arrgh... kids!!!) have survived very well.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Bob Bath"


>Hey-- you didn't mention the manufacturer.  I have
>one for DCP.  What brand is yours?  Or, what are you
>trying to achieve with the manual?

I just wanted to see what all it consisted of as far as 
hooking it up went.  I found a link to some info but the 
link was broken:

http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/Converter.html

(Why is the efficiency so "bad" on those converters?)


Here is what I was thinking about:

Along with removing the stock gas motor, also remove the 
stock wiring harness.  It's old and I don't want to reuse 
it.  I also want to rewire the car to my liking.

Preliminary

EV digest 4078

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4078

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Sick EV Humor Revisited
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout).
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Road Speed
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout). -sepex questions
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout). -sepex questions
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: ~OT:  Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: ~OT:  Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Rabbit, Elec-trak, batteries for sale in Sharon, MA
by Ken Olum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Road Speed
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: ~OT:  Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Sick EV Humor Revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: DC/DC Converter manual?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: DC/DC Converter manual?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: ~OT:  Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey motors stuffed down the cylinders with bevel gears,  retaining the 
original heavy engine block I LOVE IT
!!!
Hide a small batt pack and controller underneath put on an old cylinder 
head and carb, then  do a candid camera  type episode the gags would be 
endless !!!
Such as : Look what has been invented, it runs on water or what ever and 
the engine does not need a radiator He He.
   
Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course, I have a nice 600A sep-ex controller that is going to waste.  
I think it goes down to 36V.

Seth
On Feb 6, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Keith Richtman wrote:
Curtis specifies an undervolt cutback at 64V in their datasheet.


Keith
Rod Hower said:
I have a question concerning the following
Curtis 1231-8601, 96-144V, 500A
Is there an undervoltage lockout, and if so
at what voltage.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


It's a common question we all get asked. "How fast can it go?" If someone
asks you that, and your EV can go up to 70, 80 or 90 mph and people just say
"Oh", we can say,  "If you want to see some EVs that can go over 100 mph
check out the 100 mph Club on the NEDRA site".

Along these lines how about the 10,000 mile club , for people who have
driven over 10k on the same set of batteries. Somebody who wants to set up a
web site on this ? It could be a little more lax on proof , any way out
claims would need verification , each entry could tell a little about the
setup  ,or a 100 mile club , for those who have driven over 100 miles on a
charge.

Steve Clunn , with 11,000 miles on my golf cart battered Mazda pu ,





Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Chip this sounds good!
Once in stay in Nedra's 100 club,stay in, let the list grow!!

Madman's 100 club is should be a tight group of us street racers... and I
want the slope short and slippery, and up hill.
It's hard, and not easy or cheap... and that's why it's important to me.
I am the first to say either of my EV might not have what it takes. This
is going to be tough to do. Some have said impossible. Ok now that's a
challenge worthy of my efforts.

As for the Maniac Mazda.. If Rod wishes, I will be up there to help get it
back on the road and at track side Kicking Bitching and driving it as fast
as we go. Look, I want more fol

EV digest 4079

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4079

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Liquid Tin buss bar.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: EPIC info
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up, Rabbits an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Ad: EV-remote
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Road Speed
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) EV Album, was: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Won't be needing new Batts for my S-15 for a while :-(
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: ~OT:  Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Prius Super Bowl commercial
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Source for GE motor brushes?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Control question
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

James D Thompson wrote:

> >Concerning the "Maniac Mazda", we have raced it licensed and insured but
> >due to the modifications I think it would be very unfair and unsportsman
> >like to try and pass it off as a street conversion class vehicle.
>
> From what I've seen, it's not any farther from "street" than the
> Zombie is, maybe a bit closer since it has a working tranny.

Maniac Mazda more 'street' than White Zombie? As the guy who named Rod's wild 
(pun
intended) 1/4 mile drag Mazda, I'm a bit familiar with it. I too, am a big fan 
of this
machine and would love to see it back on the track, but as to it being closer 
to street 
than my car, that's a big s-t-r-e-t-c-h!

Rod's machine has doors that are mere shells of themselves, carved out and 
lightened as
many body parts of pure race machine usually are. It's got thin and light 
Plexiglas
windows instead of stock glass, and if I recall correctly, they no longer 
function as roll
down items. The car has a  totally gutted interior. It's got bulged out 
fiberglass rear
fender wells and a tubbed rear section to accommodate huge wrinkle wall drag 
slicks, and
it's got wheelie bars. It's a pure race car.

In contrast, every single piece of White Zombie's stock steel body work is in 
tact, with
the exception of the interior trunk floor which like most all streetable 
sedans, has been
modified to hold batteries. It's got stock fenders, stock doors, stock hood, 
etc., and it
looks exactly like a stock Datsun 1200 sedan. In fact, sitting next to its 
twin, Blue
Meanie, only the fat rear tires and the giant Ford 9 inch hanging down in back 
give it
away as being a bit more 'tweaked'. There's no monster flared fenders and no 
lightened
body panels. It's rear tires tuck up and into the stock rear fenders (though 
they barely clear)
...no chopping of the fender wells, no protruding flares, completely original. 
It's 
got all its original glass...no race car spec Plexiglas. It's got carpets and 
factory
door and rear side panels, factory headliner, factory dash, etc. It's got 
working windows,
wipers, horn, turn signals, brake lights, etc. It has the stock steel bumpers. 
With
the exception of the rear seat that was jettisoned to make room for best battery
placement, nothing has been removed. It runs DOT approved street tires, it's 
always
insured, it's driven to and from the track, it's driven to car shows, and it's 
even driven 
to the store occasionally. It now, has a 35-40 mile range, too.

See YaJohn 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/pics/Tinedbussbar
Liquid Tin smells like Tarn-X a silver cleaner.  The photo is a bit out of 
focus but you can see the difference between the copper plate and the buss 
barr wit

EV digest 4080

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4080

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) February NBEAA meeting announcement
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Source for GE motor brushes?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Once a rolling science/ Pro ev batts 
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Dyno Was: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Realistic Cooling Was: ETEK problem found.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) RE: High Voltage - let go!
by "johnk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/7/05 2:14:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
 Isn't the tire growth due to spinning at high RPM?
 If you dyno at the same RPM, shouldn't the gro >>
Yes the tire growth is due to spinning the tires at hi rpm.I would think the 
tire growth is not nearly as great on the chassis dyno.  We have a very 
recent picture of the current eliminator crossing the finish line with over 2 
inches of tire growth and a very distorted back end of the tire.I sent this 
picture to Rich Rudman(cost me 20 bucks) to post on the ev album,its one of the 
best shots ever of the CE,with all its new graphics.The tires in the static 
position hang over the rims almost 3 inches.The tires would grow another 2 in. 
with speeds in excess of 150.Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Final testing underway and going in production as we speak...
To fit on Kokam cells it its better to re-shape PCBs a bit, but
this is not a requirement.
Victor
ProEV wrote:
Of course, this is all just playing with numbers until a solid BMS is 
available. Victor? Rich? Lee?

Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone
In my hunting around for more stuff I don't need,
I noticed this has just come up on Ebay here in the UK.
I can't make out the details in the photo of the
test report, but did notice a big "EV100" sticker
in one of the photos.
Anyone know any more about this controller?
Is it worth buying, even if just for the bits?
( there's a few nice contactors in there! )
Ebay.co.uk item no. 3872636279
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
( I'm now waiting for DHL/HM Customs to give
  me my shiny new PFC30 that Rich Rudman sent over.
  It's so closeyet so far away... it's torture! ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Isn't the tire growth due to spinning at high RPM?
> If you dyno at the same RPM, shouldn't the growth be the same?

Envision a top fuel dragster doing a burnout; you've probably noticed
how the rear of the vehicle lifts up as the tires grow.

On a chassis dyno, the vehicle is restrai

EV digest 4081

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4081

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) KW hill rating, was Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  5) Vas: Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Realistic Cooling Was: ETEK problem found.
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Sick EV Humor Revisited (OT)
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: KW hill rating, was Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Prius +
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Oklahoma EV Test
by Ivan Workman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) Re: Prius +
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) K & W ENG. #BC-20 hookup?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) K & W ENG. #BC-20 hookup?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Prius +
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Roderick Wilde, one of top slogans in Hybrid contest, OT
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re:tire growth
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Standing on an insulator is a good idea, too. BTW, concrete is not an
insulator!

--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> I do use rubber gloves when dealing with my batteries. Doing that
> and insulating the tools, + common sense in my opinion is enough.
> You can do more safety wise - depending how paranoid you are :-),
> but insulating *you* and your tools I'd say is a bare minimum.
> ...

=




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fellow EVDL folks take heed!
I am afraid that I have drawn the elusive "Fringengineer" out of his 
hideyhole here.

You would not believe the emails I have received from him.
I seriously suspect that this is him.
Read and compare from the following info.
Google "McCotter Technologies" and check my EVDL posting #32849 titled "Sick 
EV Humor Revisited".

It is the same guy IMHO.
Do any of you remember Troy Heagy? This guy is worse.
Have fun!   :^D

johnk wrote:

Greetings,
I hate to come out larkdom, but I'm afraid if I don't say something,
someone might die. NFPA 70E is the national standard for electrical
safety[hard period]. I cannot point you to a link because there is none. If
you want read 70E you must buy it or find a very good library. The best
experts for EV enthusiast are going to be power conversion engineers and
electrical safety officers from the national labs. Not your bother the
electrician or Joe the TV guy. So if you have question about electrical
safety try getting a hold of someone from Sandia, SLAC, LBL, ArGON,
Fermi-lab.
	Here are few things you guys have kicked around but to my estimation 
didn't
pin down.

The 5mA number is cited in 70E. This is a current it takes to put heart
into fibulation.
High Voltage = 50V and above! Go ahead and work on your 48V buss with 
bare
hands, but I wouldn't.
The 10 joule limit. This is the limit for stored energy the tells you 
when
to put on your PPE (personal protection equipment). Lets face it a battery
bank = mega joules = safety equipment.
Skin Resistance = 50 ohms typical. the problem here is once skin is
punctured that's it! This is why taking the Simpson meter in the ohms mode
and to sticking the sharp probes in your temples is a bad idea!

EV digest 4082

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4082

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Free CAD Program?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) What does ELIISA stand for?
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Oklahoma EV Test
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Prius +
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re:tire growth
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Free CAD Program?
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Free CAD Program?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11) RE: Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Free CAD Program?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) FYI: Do you have an aftermarket Tach or Speedometer?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Free CAD Program?
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) What does ELIICA stand for?
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Prius +
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Prius +
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Prius +
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: tire growth
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Prius +
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re:tire growth
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: tire growth
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Liquid glove (Re: High Voltage..)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) 42-volt starting batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) EV Album (was Re:tire growth)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I test fit my ElectroAuto (http://www.electroauto.com) taperlock hub
to make some measurements for making my adapter plates.

Side comment: The EA hub is a thing of beauty! The Porsche has 6
flywheel bolts that are slightly asymmetrically placed. The hub has
this right, has enough room for my tranny input shaft, and is close
to being as small as possible. It fits onto the motor shaft with no
freeplay, and my flywheel fits onto it with no freeplay -- just
perfect. Since the hub is such a crucial and high-speed piece I
elected to buy it instead of make it.

Now onto the real question: What is a good CAD program to draw up my
adapter plates? Emachineshop (http://www.emachineshop.com) has a nice
simple CAD program they'll use to make your part. I haven't been able
to figure out how to print dimensions on the drawing, though, anyone
figured that out? Question B: Is there a free CAD program worth
using? My goals are just to have a diagram to work from, have the
double-check of the computer that dimensions agree, and to document
what I do.

Another side note: Using Emachineshop to build your adapter costs
more than just buying one from EA!


=




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy LeMeur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I am afraid that I have drawn the elusive "Fringengineer" out of his 
> hideyhole here.

I'm not sure why you think this.  NFPA 70E *is* the appropriate standard
for electrical arc hazard.
For $38.25 anyone can get a copy and confrim/refute the information in
the post:

http://www.maintenanceresources.com/bookstore/electrical/nfpa2.htm


Catbus Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  "Arc Flash Point. This is where your engulfed in a plasma 
> ball that is ten times hotter then the sun. For the EVers 
> this should not be an issue but you need to know that it
> takes 480v (577 peak) and 10,000 amps to vaporized yourself.
> I'm fearful that someday someone will build a EV with 600v
> motor and some really fast batteries."

> Who figured out that it'd take 4.8 Megawatts to vaporize a person and 
> why and what drugs they where doing?

Actually, the link below states that 1A @ 480V is about 8MW (assumes
3-phase AC

EV digest 4083

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4083

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Vanadium Battery
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re:tire growth
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) (non) lethal multimeters (was High Voltage - let go!)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: (non) lethal multimeters (was High Voltage - let go!)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Fault detecting contactor control relays
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Vanadium Battery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Vanadium Battery
by "Schacherl Jens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Vanadium Battery
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: tire growth
by "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Free CAD Program?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Tour de Sol 2005 Announcement
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) White Zombie Range
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Free CAD Program?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Brake Drum as Motor Adapter?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Brake Drum as Motor Adapter?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
"the advent of 42-volt systems in cars and maybe even 
widespread electric vehicles."

http://www.exideworld.com/pdf/2001_exide_brochure.pdf
When are these 42 volt batteries going to be on the market? 
What effect will they have as far as conversions go? 
 

Right now manufacturer's are slow to convert.  Toyota has a production 
vehicle in Japan (Crown?) that uses a 42Vbatter/starter for idle stop.  
GM's mild hybrid (idle stop) full sized pickups are expected to have a 
42v system.  Believe it or not the biggest hurdle being quoted is coming 
up with a battery connection standard that prevents people from 
connecting jumper cables to the 42 battery and blowing up themselves or 
the 12v system in another vehicle.

Once the systems are on vehicles you will start to see a slow migration 
of higher power accessory loads.  I expect the hybrids will see it first 
with 42V electric AC and power steering powered when the engine is 
stopped.  Since most designs seem to involve a 42V alternator with a 
DC/DC to run the 12v loads most conversions will need to switch to a 42v 
DC/DC.  That will be good for us, since DC/DCs are typically current 
limited.. we'll get more power for the same silicon.  42v AC and power 
steering will be a blessing.. it will eliminate two of the bigger 
hassles in conversion. 

Mark
Marl
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.sae.org/42volt has more info.
Ryan Stotts wrote:
"the advent of 42-volt systems in cars and maybe even 
widespread electric vehicles."

http://www.exideworld.com/pdf/2001_exide_brochure.pdf
When are these 42 volt batteries going to be on the market? 
What effect will they have as far as conversions go? 

!DSPAM:42094941307675313812468!
 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend Down Under sent me an article on a newly developed Vanadium Bromide
Redox Flow Battery.

http://www.cegt.com.au/documents/CEGT_Vanadium_Bromide_Redox_Battery_Media_Release_12_J.pdf

Plans are to develop 5 and 50 kW sizes.  Market targets are solar homes and
electric vehicles.  Highlights are that it is "infinitely rechargeable" (the
BS meter got pegged!!) and has an 80% efficiency.  The battery was created
by Maria Skyllas-Kazocos, a professor and scientist at the University of New
South Wales.

However, I did a search and Maria Skyllas **is** connected with the
University of New South Wales:
http://www.ceic.unsw.edu.au/staff/Maria_Skyllas-Kazacos/Skyllas.htm
**with** references and patent numbers connected to the above battery.

I did find this URL which has a few pictures and schematics:

 http://www.ceic.unsw.edu.au/centers/vrb/vanart2a.htm

Thought I'd ask if anyone knows anything about this battery?

Peter
--- End Message 

EV digest 4084

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4084

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: tire growth
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: tire growth
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) 500A battery load tester
by Gordon G Schaeffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re:Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Attack Life, It Will Kill You Anyway
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Chico EAA meeting Sat. Feb. 12th
by "Chuck Alldrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Attack Life, It Will Kill You Anyway
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan- suspension
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) NOTICE: Chico EAA meeting POSTPONED !!!
by "Chuck Alldrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, blower cooling & dust removal.
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan- suspension
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) K&W Battery Charger with Step Up Transformer for sale!  eBay auction.
by "Jeff Dobereiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:51 AM
Subject: RE: tire growth


> You really mean that a Goodyear or BF Goodrich street tire (not a slick)
> will grow 2.5 to 4 inches in diameter ?
>
> Sorry, as I said before, a slick is built to do that, to alter the gear
> ratio and improve the performance figures, specially the max speed.
>
> But street tires, specially steel belted radials, simply cannot do it.
>
> Ivo.
>
>
>
> -Mensaje original-
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre
> de Rich Rudman
> Enviado el: martes, 08 de febrero de 2005 19:56
> Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Asunto: Re: tire growth
>
> I don't consider 2.5 to 4 inches of total tire growth Little or
> unmeasurable.
> In fact it's quite critical for final motor RPM and trap speed
calculations.
> When we are all touching Rev limits or the highest speeds we dare...
knowing
> the Mach number of our Comm Bars is a nice data point.
>

Like Duhh! Ivo.

The shot of Dennis's rail is not about street tires.

Dot legal street tires, don't grow worth a darn. Yea I know.
But Anyone running true slicks and wrinkle walls CAN take advantage of this
fact. Rod's RX7 comes to mind since he does have tubbed fenders and slicks
on it already.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range



>
> And, Exide specs the 34XCD at a max of 1100A for 5sec, so while Rich has
> observed 1850A briefly it might be unwise to count on that level of
> performance from every Orbital you might encounter.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>
We did the Orb at 1800 amps plus for 10 seconds, no fails.  Spikes were
observed over 2000 amps. It's safe to say a XCD34 in mint condition with a
couple break in cycles can make 1800 amps.
And by the looks, with the over head we had, most should pull to this amp
point with out dropping under 6 volts. Oh Spec says 1100 for 5 seconds.. Oh
I wouldn't want to draw more than a Spec sheet allows for Now would I???

Stiff big batteries may weigh more, but they are a LOT more reliable than a
smaller super highly stressed Uber high voltage 

EV digest 4085

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4085

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) A Drinking Problem
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: OT Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) fuel economy rating for cars
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) OT Zap smart cars
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: fuel economy rating for cars
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: fuel economy rating for cars
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: fuel economy rating for cars
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: fuel economy rating for cars
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) New GBR auto ratings give only BEVs an "A"
by Gravity Girl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: OT Zap smart cars
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Dyno Was: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 27) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Custom lightweight clutch and flywheel
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Dyno Was: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have two Saft NI-Cad STM-180's I'm testing in my 20 6V battery pack and they 
seam to use about 3x the water that the flooded wet cells use.  The main issue 
is I can't see how full the cells are since they are in a pack and can't see 
the sides of the batteries.  One I'm evaluating in the front if the vehicle is 
visible and last night when watering, the distilled water goes in one end and 
dribbles out the other.  The last cell was still down to the plates.  I put 
water in the opposite end and the low cell filled up slowly (like the filling 
valve was stuck).  How can you tell the water level on these batteries?  This 
seams like a fundamental problem.  Mark--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, Roy, this guy is not on the fringe, although some of his
statements are questionable, in my opinion. I am an electrical contractor,
not an electrician (which simply means I don't know the NFPA code as well as
an electrician should!) The NFPA is NOT the definitive body on electrical
safety - they are a fire prevention body, and although they write the NEC,
there is a lot of stuff in the NEC that is not safety related, it is
political and at times totally ridiculous in terms of safety. I'd rather
take the advice of an older electrician, someone who's been around and seen
it all, than the advice of some young inexperienced engineer or someone from
the NFPA or someone with an axe to grind!

Joseph H. Strubhar

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.gremcoinc.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 9:55 PM
Subject: Fringengineer? was Re: High Voltage - let go!


>
> Fellow EVDL folks take heed!
>
> I am afraid that I have drawn the elusive "Fringengineer" out of his
> hideyhole here.
>
> You would not believe the emails I have received from him.
>
> I seriously suspect that this is him.
>
> Read and compare from the following info.
>
> Google "McCotter Technologies" and check my EVDL posting #32849 titled
"Sick
> EV Humor Revisited".
>
> It is the same guy IMHO.
>
> Do any of you remember Troy Heagy? This guy is worse.
>
> Have fun!   :^D
>
>
>
> johnk wrote:
> >
> Greetings,
> >
> > I hate to come out larkdom, but I'm afraid if I don't say something,
> >someone might die. NFPA 70E is the national standard for electrical
> >safety[hard period]. I cannot point you to a link because there is none.
If
> >you want read 70E you must buy it or find a very goo

EV digest 4086

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4086

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: OT Zap smart cars
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: A Drinking Problem
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Patents (was: 42-volt starting batteries)
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Patents (was: 42-volt starting batteries)
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Charging, watering  Nicads,  Re: A Drinking Problem
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: OT Zap smart cars
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re:Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) OT Re: Patents
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The seller has made a number of basic ebay mistakes (from my ebay 
experience/opinions):

high starting price,
   (a low starting price gets more people to bid on your auction... 
more bids means more views, more views leads to more bidders (a lot of 
people ignore auctions with no activity assuming other sellers know 
something is wrong with the product or it is overpriced.)  Starting an 
auction low does not necessarily mean it will end low.

reserve price
   Reserve price auctions are always a bummer.. why bid if you have no 
idea if you're going to win.  In combination with the above, if you're 
the only one bidding there is no opportunity to drive the price above 
the reserve price.  Never set _both_ a high start price and a reserve 
price, either one alone can prevent the item for selling for less than 
your minimum.

no comparison to retail
Victor does not post the complete price for the drives.  (I assume this 
is because exchange rates are always changing and he buys the drives 
from a European supplier)  Without an easy comparison its hard for a 
bidder to get excited about how much money they are likely to save.

selling items seperately
   The buyer is unlikely to have the inverter and need the motor or 
vise versa.. and the seller doesn't want to get stuck with one item and 
sell the other (I assume).  Seperately the buyer will worry that they 
will end up with only half the parts needed to build a working system.  
Working/tested items sell for a higher value.  Selling items together 
may also reduce your listing fees. 

small market
   Really there are only a few people activity seeking conversion parts 
at any one time in the country.  To bid on an auction they will need to 
have cash in hand.  If they have the cash they are likely saving it for 
a later day... (if the buyer needs the parts quickly they would have 
already purchased them).  So you're trying to convince someone to make 
an impulse purchase, either buying parts they do not need, or parts they 
do not need today.  Typically on ebay only rarity or low price can get 
people to buy on impulse (and the siemens drives are not yet rare 
AFAIK).  The more costly an item and the smaller the market the less 
likely you are to get a good price for it on ebay.

Ebay is great for getting rid of things fast (often for less than they 
are worth).. rare items with a fuzzy value, or for items where you can 
sell for less than retail and still amke a profit.  If you want to get 
maximum dollar for your EV part you should probably sell thru the 
trading post.

Mark
Paul Wallace wrote:
I see one of the Metricmind Siemens mot

EV digest 4087

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4087

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Controller bypass question
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: 42-volt starting batterie-long and partly OT
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Electravan Aux. Battery.  The times have changed but are the batteries 
better?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Controller bypass question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: 42-volt starting batterie-long and partly OT
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: 42-volt starting batterie-long and partly OT
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay and other 3 phase motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Miscellaneous Set of EV Parts - eBay again!
by "Jeff Dobereiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Smart EV and others
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Controller bypass question- GE control
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay and other 3 phase motors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Controller bypass question- GE control
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 29) DCDC chip for e-meter
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: What does ELIISA stand for?
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/10/05 12:00:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Let's not forget the 42-volt system's biggest connection to 
 > the EV world that has already come and for the most part, 
 > gone from us...the TMF batteries. The thin metal film lead 
 > acid batteries that powered Maniac Mazda to scary 1/4 mile 
 > times, the small Inspira 12V modules, were prototypes 
 > designed for use in the 36V battery setup for the 42V system. 
 > The batteries were lightweight and very compact but able to 
 > supply HUGE cranking power. They were made for a limited 
 > time. I still have one on the shelf as a momento of the 
 > by-gone days, the period of EV drag racing where Bolder and 
 > Inspira TMF batteries brought us the 8 second Current 
 > Eliminator, the 9 second Killacycle, and the 11 second Maniac Mazda.
  >>
LETS NOT FORGET CIRCUIT BREAKER IT holds the 2nd quickest qt.mile run for an 
EV.   Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For someone who does want AC power in a larger vehicle, it looks to me
like the inverter in question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4525638887

plus one of these Ford motors:
http://tinyurl.com/3nby7

would make a decent relatively inexpensive combination... (?)


  --chris




Victor Tikhonov said:
> Wow, an entire section of my web page just copied and pasted on ebay.
> I don't mind, but not even sure if it is legal to do it,
> the site stating that it is copyrighted...
>
> No, this motor will not work well in Caravan - too little thermal
> reserve, despite water cooling. But inverter will since the same
> one used with 45kW rated motors (The one Carl is selling is 18 kW rated).
>
> Victor
>
>
> Paul Wallace wrote:
>> I see one of the Metricmind Siemens motors and controllers on Ebay with
>> about 1.5 days left and no bids.  The opening bid for both is in the
>> range of comparable DC motors and controllers.  Granted, it is the small
>> motor and the non integrated controller, but they look ideal for a small
>> car conversion.

EV digest 4088

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4088

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) New EV vendor on EVDL
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Motor controller 'idea' for sale on eBay
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Smart EV
by Ivan Workman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: A Drinking Problem
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) K&W BC-20 Question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 42-volt starting batterie-long and partly OT
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Smart EV
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Motor controller 'idea' for sale on eBay
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Smart EV
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: K&W BC-20 Question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Motor controller 'idea' for sale on eBay
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: Motor controller 'idea' for sale on eBay
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 33) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
---Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Despite horrible reputation of ZAP I don't care about, I'd do it
> for fixed fee - for learning experience if not anything else.
>
> But when they offered stock shares as a apyment instead,
> that was the end of conversation. They never sounded serious.
>

This seems to be a recurring theme - offer ZAP stock options to make the real EV
stuff, but spend real $$$ to churn out PR. Seems we've seen a lot of bad
decisions by EV companies in past couple decades - my mistake was buying ZAP
stock just after the creator of the zappy left.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, that was grumpy. And kind of pointless as Joe answered it already 
saying it could be done.

Seth
On Feb 10, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Seth Allen wrote:
This has been definitely been answered before by those who have tried. 
But maybe people could actually read replies to posts...

Seth
On Feb 10, 2005, at 12:39 AM, Edward Ang wrote:
If you find it hard to believe one way or the other,
just do a test with 2 shunts and 2 E-meters and watch
the current sharing behavior.  You could have the 2
shunts/E-meter always connected just in case there are
long term problems.
Then, tell us one way or the other.
Ed Ang
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No one has authoratatively said yes.  Some say not
no.  I am totally
confused and went to one string on a different
vehicle.  Lawrence Rhodes..
- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Flooded NiCDs in parallel

Quick verify: Can one run strings of flooded NiCDs
in parallel?
Chris



__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:11 AM -0700 on 2/10/05, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
 > Scarily enough, that /is/ cheap for the American market. 12 - 15
 grand would make it cheaper than almost anything short of the
 ultra-cheap Asian econo-boxes like the low end Kias.
Chevy, Pontiac, and Saturn all have cars available f

EV digest 4091

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4091

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) AC Motors and Reverse and the Dragstrip
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Electravan lives.  My fourth Factory EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: White Zombie Range
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: building your own batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: AC Motors and Reverse and the Dragstrip
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Solectria / Sunrise was AC Motors and Reverse
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) 1970s cars, was Re: White Zombie Range
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: 1970s cars, was Re: White Zombie Range
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: 1970s cars, was Re: White Zombie Range
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: building your own batteries
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15) Re: AC Motors and Reverse and the Dragstrip
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Smart EV
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Any news or updates?
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: building your own batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: building your own batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Smart EV
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: 1970s cars, was Re: White Zombie Range
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Lester unfair to 12v battery.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: 1970s cars, was Re: White Zombie Range
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: 1970s cars, was Re: White Zombie Range
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: Lester unfair to 12v battery.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 30) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
200 battery amps, I am pretty sure, but you are running 300V, so it is 
possible that it is 200 motor amps. But I believe you have stated the 
200A as from the battery before. The Force was half the voltage with a 
similar battery current limit. Battery current has little to do with 
motor current.  That Force had a low (200?250?) battery amp limit so 
the batteries would live. But with a 600A DMOC the motor amps were high 
so it would have good acceleration. That's 600A peak not RMS, by the 
way.

Seth

On Feb 11, 2005, at 10:56 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
Yes. But you may want at least two speeds forward anyways, as an AC  
motor with a single speed cannot emulate the flexibility of a  
multispeed transmission. It can get fairly close, but the tradeoff is 
 needing a higher current rated inverter. Which is expensive. A  
Solectria AC20Gtx equipped Force with a 600A DMOC (controller) is 
much  more satisfactory in climbing steep grades and keeping up with 
traffic  than a 400A DMOC. EVermont has one. I haven't driven it but 
have heard  how nice it is.
Um? The Dolphin is rated at 200amps peak and runs very fine from zero 
up to 80mph. While true it's not a great idea to take the system above 
80 much (due to possible overspeed) it will go to 100mph with no 
problems.

Lack of gears is nice. Smooth ride overall.
Oh and yes: It does run backwards with no problem. Even will regen 
backwards if you're really bored (tried it; works fine). The 
controller however will limit power in reverse for you.

Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All that fancy software does things like commutation, getting your peak 
torque, and getting your efficiency. Reverse is free. For that matter, 
software is amortized, but as you sell more units, the cost keeps going 
towards zero as there is no material cost.

The controllers are pretty general purpose. In hardware they are 
similar. That software specific to the motor they drive is what gets 
the job done.

Siemens is the only inverter that I am aware of that has a charger 
built in.

Personally, I think that the ability of an AC drive to hold a higher 
power longer than series wound motor would make it very competitive in 
a drag race. And no brushes to flash over. Figuring out how to get it 
to work at very high currents, assuming that the motor properties 
cha

EV digest 4089

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4089

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Controller bypass question- GE control
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) AC Motors and Reverse
by Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Smart EV
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Smart EV
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Smart EV
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Smart EV
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: AC Motors and Reverse
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Smart EV
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Regen with direct-connection of motor to battery, WAS: Motor controller 
"idea" for sale on eBay
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Regen with direct-connection of motor to battery, WAS: Motor 
controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Smart EV
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: K&W BC-20 Question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 27) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Motor controller "idea" for sale on eBay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Oh Boy this is a good one

About 1000 ftlbs Assuming a %50 sag of your pack, and a short curcuit
battery rating of about 3500 amps.

You need to tell us a LOT more about how many amps your can actually make
and the RPM that you come off the controller and onto the bypass circuit.
Wayland does this at about 1500 rpm and peggs a 1500 amp meter.

The peak torque is a function of how many amps you can actually draw at the
RPM you are running, and how much of that amps can flow without sending your
brushes into a complete fireball.
The 1000 ftlbs assumes perfect commutation. This almost never happens, and
surely will be very hard to do with a 300 volt pack.

Another answer is more than you can handle!!



- Original Message - 
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Controller bypass question- GE control


> >From: "Rod Hower"
>
> >I think I still have an extra chip laying around if
> >you want to break your transmission.
>
> It's rated at 600 lb-ft:
>
> http://ddperformance.com/3550tko5spd.htm
>
> How much torque can a 9" Warp put out using the bypass and a
> 300 volt setup?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Easy question for those more knowledgeable than myself:
 
Can you run an AC motor backwards?  In other words, if I build an AC conversion 
w/out a transmission will I be able to back up?
 
I know the arguments against doing this, just curious about this detail.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Carl Clifford
Denver
;-| grinless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>> Maybe it's the cute little idea I had about 7 years ago.
>> Use (essentially) a motor stator with a moving brush as a
>> PWM controller. You spin the stator as fast as you can with
>> a small motor, and move one of the brushes around to adjust
>> the pulse width.

Evan Tuer wrote:
> I can't quite see how that would work..?

It's usually done with a tapered wedge for a "commutator". When the
brushes are at one end, the touch the copper for a full revolution (100%
on). As the brushes are moved axially, they touch the copper for a
smaller and smaller percentage of a revolution (X% PWM)

EV digest 4090

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4090

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Insight parts?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: K&W BC-20 Question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: AC Motors and Reverse
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: K&W BC-20 Question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) building your own batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: building your own batteries
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by Tom Dowling - remote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: building your own batteries
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: building your own batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: building your own batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: building your own batteries
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: building your own batteries
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: building your own batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Solectria Motor/Controller (was Re: Smart EV)
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Solectria / Sunrise was AC Motors and Reverse
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Solectria / Sunrise was AC Motors and Reverse
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Solectria / Sunrise was AC Motors and Reverse
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Attack Life, It Will Kill You Anyway
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4526567725

Says left over from an EV conversion - anyone on the EVDL?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> You also have to change a resistor inside the BC-20 that sets the max
>> voltage.  You can actually go to voltages higher than what is stated in
>> the manual, you just have to calculate what the resistor needs to be
>> (the
>> manual lists the specific resistor values for normal pack voltage
>> ranges).
>
> Is there some technical or liability reason K&W didn't just put a
> potentiometer
> on the front to allow voltage adjustment without having to open the case?
>
>

There IS a fine adjustment potentiometer on the front of the charge, the
resistor in question is a /coarse/ adjustment.  I.e. you set it for
nominal pack voltage and adjust finish charge voltage with the pot on the
front.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's all software control for these drives.
You can run either direction and have regen if
the controller is smart enough.
Ivo, I worked at Baldor, remember the Smartmotor?
Cheers,
Rod
--- Ivo Jara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't know how good they run, but they do, I
> worked fror Grundfos, a water
> pump manufacturer, and when the electricians on
> location wired a pump
> incorrectly, it did run backwards.
> 
> those were AC brushless submersible motors 380 Volts
> 5 to 400 hp.
> 
>
http://net.grundfos.com/Appl/WebCAPS/CatalogueCtrl;jsessionid=3bnN0WHKvv
> DuHPkcsDGkSAR:-1?cmd=prsr
> 
> Ivo
> 
> -Mensaje original-
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> nombre de Carl Clifford
> Enviado el: viernes, 11 de febrero de 2005 17:00
> Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Asunto: AC Motors and Reverse
> 
> 
> Easy question for those more knowledgeable than
> myself:
> 
> Can you run an AC motor backwards?  In other words,
> if I build an AC
> conversion w/out a transmission will I be able to
> back up?
> 
> I know the arguments against doing this, just
> curious about this detail.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Carl Clifford
> Denver
> ;-| grinless
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release
> Date: 10/02/2005
> 
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>  Saying some

EV digest 4092

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4092

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 1970s cars
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) Re: Smart EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) Re: Any news or updates?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  5) Re: 1970s cars for conversion?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Smart EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Peltier car cooling
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Lithium Ion battery breakthrough: 3X power + recharge in minut
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: 1970s cars
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) (no subject)
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 1970s cars
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: 
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: 1970s cars
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 1970s Cars
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I will try and make a long story short. Currently I have a customer using
12volt Prestolite pump motors, specifically MMY-6101, made for Fenner,
Waltco, Maxom Lift. The only new motors we can get are off shore, Chinese
units, even Fenner is supplying these now. They come with the brush holder
that screws in three places into the side of the barrel. We are running the
motors on 84 volts and melting the brush holders. The motors are engaged for
one second, off for a second, engaged for a second, off for a second, i.e.
tapping a button. So here are some questions I have for you that have more
expertise than I (yes some butt kissing)
1.) Do the original Prestolite motors have the brush holders attached to the
com. end plate? Bad question for a Prestolite SD to ask I know. The smaller
Fenner pumps have this, and I think the older true Prestolites do as well,
but I haven't seen one in three years. Having the heavier brush holder with
thicker insulators should eliminate the arcing and melting of the holders,
correct?
2.) Does anyone have a source for cores for these units, good or bad?
3.) If I rewind just the field coils to 6volts and lower battery voltage to
48volts, will it have the same effect as running 12volt motors on 96volts?
4.) Should I rewind the armatures to 6 volts as well?
5.) If I under cut the comm. on the armature it will fry, correct? Can I use
12volt brushes with the higher voltages, or should I use a different
compound brush. I can get mica inserts in the comm., but it will require the
brushes to be harder, i.e. 12volt compound.
6.) Is there a formula to tell you how much power a motor will have when you
change voltages. Specifically I have 12 volt motors that produce 75ftlbs of
torque and 11hp. What will they produce at 24 volts, 48 volts, and 144volts?
What effect would putting 6 volt field windings in the same motors, and
keeping the 12volt armature have on those figures be?
Thanks in advance for all input, it is very appreciated.
Raymond
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >How about a British car? MGs and Triumphs of the era were pretty
> >robust and sporty. TR6, TR7, MBG
> >GT. Many options.
>
> OK, call me strange, but I've always wanted to electrify a Sunbeam
> (or Hillman) Imp. I once drove one as a gas car and I must say it was
> a hoot to drive!
>

(Why call ya strange when we take that for granted?) Is the car Arnold uses in
"Commando" (tears out the driver's seat with his bare hands) similar or was
that a Tiger? I'd love a Bugeye with a hard convertable top, and while we're at
it, a high-volt pack of Kokam LiPo paralleled to supply a Z1K -- smokin'!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<>

Would there be someone named Gary Starr as a common denominator here?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> My current project is a 72 Volkswagon bug, which is undergoing a
> ground-up restoration, modification and conversion to 156 volts.  I'll
> be running a large DC motor with a 1200 Raptor controller.  The Insanity
> Feature of this vehicle is that I am narrowing it 12 inches.  The rear
> suspension has been narrowed 12

EV digest 4093

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4093

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 1970s Cars
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 1970s Cars
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) 
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Any news or updates?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: 1970s cars and 60's
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: OT Zap smart cars
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Rev. Gadget Vibration Dampers
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: 1970s Cars
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Peltier car cooling
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Peltier car cooling
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Gadget's Conversion
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: 1970s cars
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Gadget's Conversion
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: 1970s Cars
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

David Roden wrote:

> On 12 Feb 2005 at 0:49, Dave wrote:
>
> > Ever considered one of those little Opel GTs? Looks kind of like a small
> > vette. Also, didn't Saab make a little 2-seater GT?
>
> The Sabb you're thinking of is the Sonnet, a sweet little sports car.
> Coincidentally, I just saw one the other day, the first I've seen in years
> here in Ohio.

Just as an interesting sidebarthe unique aspect of the Sonnet was that it 
had a V-4
engine.

>
> Both the Sonnet and the Opel GT are pretty scarce, and I'm not sure either
> one would make a good conversion because of the very small chassis sizes.
> (I think there's an unfinished Opel GT conversion in the EV Photo Album,
> though.)  But they sure are distinctive looking.

The Opel GT is a great looking machine, for sure.

> Another rarity that might be fun to convert: a Volvo P1800.

Way too heavy, but yes, cool looking.

See YaJohn Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was just talking to my neighbor about this very thing! He has wanted to 
build a '55-'56-'57 Chevy replica EV. He has a plan started, using all 
fiberglass body parts and an aluminum frame. We may be able to do something 
like this, possibly this summer!
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
- Original Message - 
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: 1970s Cars


Hello to All,
I'm really enjoying this thread!
James Massey wrote:
At 09:32 PM 11/02/05 -0800, Tim wrote:
>Hi John,
>
>I'm thinking about something small, very light, rear drive, maybe even
>direct driven, that would
>look great with the right "look."
Exactly. I've converted newer cars and trucks, but compared to classic 
machines from the
sixties and seventies, today's newer small cars and not-so-small trucks 
are, well, a bit
boring. Front wheel drive is boring, jelly bean look-alike styling is 
boring, 2800-3200
lb. 'small cars' are boring, and interiors that are over-stuffed and over 
styled, are also
boring.

In contrast, the early seventies small cars have styling that still looks 
hip and fresh
today. Just ask any backwards baseball cap kid with a coffee can muffler 
tricked out Honda
what his ultimate street import would be, and in an instant you'll here 
that familiar
three digit name '510', as in Datsun 510. The Datsun 510 was classic 
looking the day it
was put on the market, and from '68 - '73 it was a super sales success. 
Thanks to ex Carol
Shelby cohort Pete Brock, the BRE racing 510s totally rewrote the 2.5 
TransAm Challenge,
where race prepped 510s were unbeatable and achieved legendary status.

I was at the 2005 Auto show recently, looking at all the colorful cool 
model cars at a
brightly lit display and sales area. It was packed with older dudes and 
dudettes as well
as the 18-25 year old import freaks. New this year, alongside the 55 
Chevs, muscle cars,
and T buckets, were dazzling hot import models like tricked out Eclipses, 
tricked out
Honda Civics, Nissan Skyline GTs, etc., but it was the BRE styled 510 
Datsun models that
had the eye of all the young guys, and it was fun to watch them hold up 
the 510 model and
listen in to them talking about how someday, they'd find a clean 510, 
build up a muscle
four banger, a

EV digest 4094

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4094

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Solectria Sunrise for sale
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) OT: Nanograss and battery technology
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Hydraulics and Conversions
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Rev. Gadget Vibration Dampers
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Hydraulics and Conversions
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Melting motors, was Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: 1970s cars
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Hydraulics and Conversions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Hydraulics and Conversions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Gadget's Conversion
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:30:17 -0500, Raymond Knight
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> We cannot change the motor size due to esthetics. Or I would have already
> put 40mt starter motors in. The motors are turning high volume, high
> pressure hydraulic pumps. Everyone seems to think torque is the key to
> making them work better. 

Oh dear.  This sounds like drag racing without the all the careful
scientific calculations done before hand (irony).
 Use smaller displacement pumps and add a high pressure accumulator. 
Use higher voltage series wound motors and allow them to run at high
RPM.  Fit a powerful blower to the end of the motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> I ~think~ this thread spun off from the drag racing battery
> discusison, hence my impression that the contemplated goal
> was to build batteries more optimised for drag racing than
> what one can readily buy.

That's what I thought, too. Thus my comments were along these lines.

> It is quite feasible to build a lead acid battery in one's garage,
> and a clean room environment is not necessary. Period. You think
> it is a silly idea, and that is fair enough, but that does not
> make it impossible. Nor does the fact that no-one on this list
> has yet been motivated to try building their own battery make it
> impossible.

I agree completely. A person (or company, or society as a whole for that
matter) tends to pick ONE technology for problem-solving. They then
ignore or even attack all OTHER solutions to that problem. We
specialize.

So, the guy who builds cars does not also build motors. The one who
builds motors doesn't build controllers. The ones who build controllers
don't build batteries. Etc.

Sure, there are still a few generalists; Leonardo DaVinci types that can
excel in many fields. But most of us are only really good at a few very
specialized things.

As it happens, everyone on the EV list seems to be mechanically or
electrically oriented. No chemists or electrochemists. Thus, we don't
hear from the battery builders.

> Another, also quite serious, suggestion is that rather than building a
> battery from the ground up, if the concern is primarily peak current
> capability and interconnect robustness, it might be more practical to
> take a mostly suitable battery, like the 13 or 16Ah Hawker, saw the lid
> off and beef up the cell interconnects to address their shortcomings,
> and then reseal the battery.

Here's a thought. Just for racing, open the top of your batteries, and
pour some liquid on top of each cell to flood the interconnects and so
cool them.

You could use 1300 SG electrolyte. Add it before the race, remove i

EV digest 4095

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4095

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 1970s Cars
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: new conversion
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE Current Eliminator News.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) Re: Dennis Berube in Connecticut
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  8) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: 1970s Cars
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 1970s cars
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: 500A battery load tester
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: new conversion
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: 1970s Cars
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Snubber RC circuits
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 500A battery load tester
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) FW: Peltier car cooling
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: 500A battery load tester
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: new conversion
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: 500A battery load tester
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: AC Motors and Reverse
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Ecom, Kewet
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: building your own batteries
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) RE: building your own batteries
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Electrochemist
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Electrochemist
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "John Wayland"

>A Datsun 510 2 door with the BRE fender
>flares filled with low profile rubber and
>classic American Racing 4 spoke mags,
>lowered

Something like this?

http://img214.exs.cx/img214/5872/sema39dh.jpg

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Reverend Gadget"


>I got the bug the other day and
>decided to start a new conversion.

Are you going to get the flywheel rebalanced?


Looks good, keep us updated.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Joe Smalley"

>If someone wanted to flat tow it, the tags
>need to be renewed and it would take an
>hour to put the tow bar brackets
>back on it. It would not take much to
>get it to the track.


You might look into this as far as getting it transported:

http://www.uship.com/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions


> On some of the old B-52G aircraft engines, the hydraulic pump was a
variable
> pressure type with a wobble plate that would compress the pump cylinders
in
> various amounts, depending on the load required . Sorry if this sounds
light
> on specifics, but I AM old and forgetful. Anyway, the pump would run
> continuously, being geared to aircraft engine, but would have variable
> output.
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
> "I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of
elimination"

That's called a Swash plate controled variable displacment pump. IT is the
BEST solution possible for fast accurate hydrualic pump control direction.

My Dad used a couple of these in 1500 to 1800 Hp Fiber board presses. Multi
Ton multi opening hardboard board lines.

Spendy... Really cool!

You would use these types of pumps if you wished to Walk you Jumper cars
around like controlled robots. Yea the control is THAT good!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Raymond Knight"


>The Prestolite motor is being used in one of those hopper 
>cars.
>Typically the guys are using SAKO brand off shore fenner 
>replacement pumps.
>Every guy we talked with at the last competition has to 
>replace his motors
>after each competition.


SACO:

http://www.prohopper.com/motors.html

SACO:

http://www.redshydros.com/id34.htm

Something different...?

http://www.coolcars.org/cce/motors.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Feb.13 The CE makes 8 passes down speedworlds qt.mile,racing the az.drag 
racing assoitions 2nd race of the 

EV digest 4096

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4096

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 500A battery load tester
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) RE: 1970s cars
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 42-volt starting batteries an' stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) gmail - EVDL
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) EV snow blowers?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Solectria / Sunrise was AC Motors and Reverse
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: 1970s Cars
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: RE Current Eliminator News.
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: 1970s Cars
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Honda, Nissan join suit against CA
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 24) Red Beastie specs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 25) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: 500A battery load tester
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: AC Motors and Reverse and the Dragstrip
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new to EV, so excuse the ignorance, but why test the 'pack'? Don't you 
really want to know which individual battery is bad?
thanks
Rush

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

snipped
It was designed to capacity test golf cart battery packs.  It would hook 
up with clamps across 36 volts worth of batteries, then discharge them at 
75 Amps until they reached the cutoff voltage.
snipped
but it could only do one 12 Volt battery at a time.

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well guys, that's a sumbeam tiger, you could get it with a 4, 6 ,8 and V12
engine, the V12 (Just one produced for racing)  rated 1000 Hp, and reached
327 km/hr.

That's a neat little vehicle, but as hollywood usualy does, they look nice
but are totally unreal for the lady in the movie to own, that car is scarce,
really expensive, and a classic.

You can also see it as Maxwell's Smart's car in the television series Get
Smart.

4 cyl: 1.725 cm3 & 100 cv at 5.500 rpm
V8   : V8 Ford Fairlane 260, 4.261 cm3 & 164 cv a 4.400 rpm.
2nd. V8: Mustang 289, 4,75 Litre.


Total production figures 7.100

Years of production 1955 - 1964



-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Ryan Stotts
Enviado el: sábado, 12 de febrero de 2005 23:19
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: 1970s cars


>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>Is the car Arnold uses in "Commando"
>(tears out the driver's seat with his bare hands)
>similar or was that a Tiger?

Since I happen to have that DVD.. Here are some shots of
that car:

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/1779/commando16fm.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2355/commando26dv.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/3087/commando35ji.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/6821/commando46sb.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2921/commando56qa.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/4459/commando63ma.jpg



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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

J Mac wrote:

> Looking for electric vehicle with good range (50 miles +) & that can tow
> around 900 lbs.
>
> Please send suggestions/links/ideas/contacts.

Midsized pickup, 9 inch series wound motor, 5 speed tranny, 40, T-105 6V golf 
car
batteries @120V. A real 120 miles ran

EV digest 4097

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4097

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: building your own batteries
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Hopper cars
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Red Beastie specs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Honda, Nissan join suit against CA
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: 500A battery load tester
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Hydraulic eff.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: gmail - EVDL
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV snow blowers?
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Hydraulic eff.
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Hydraulic eff.
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Honda, Nissan join suit against CA
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: AC Motors and Reverse and the Dragstrip
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Watering BB600's.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) More water dreams...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Watering BB600's. and TEVan watering
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Battery resting voltage...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Seth Allen wrote:
Yes. But you may want at least two speeds forward anyways, as an
AC motor with a single speed cannot emulate the flexibility of a
multispeed transmission. It can get fairly close, but the tradeoff
is needing a higher current rated inverter. Which is expensive.

Seth brings up a good point. It's not the motor; it's the *controller*
that is responsible for the wide power band of some AC drives.
No controller can fix inherent shortcoming of a DC motors
unable to run at high (compare to AC motors) RPM due
to integrity of brush system.
The corresponding DC motor controller has the very same problem
delivering constant HP over a wide range. But, it only has *one* big
transistor and diode. Guess which one will be cheaper for a given power
level?
In general you are right, but we discussed this quite a few
times: power stage device cost is small fraction of overall
controller cost.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Nonsense.  The fact that none of the EV drag racers has yet been
desperate enough for a high power battery to try building their own in
no way proves that it is infeasible to build a lead acid battery in
one's garage.  There are any number of things that I *could* build in my
garage but haven't; the fact that I haven't attempted to build something
does not indicate/prove that I am incapable of doing so.
This is academic discussion Roger, it is not "proof" like
a+b=c in math. This is opinion and common practice.
Of course, it *is* feasible* to build your own battery in
your garage. But there are *good* reasons why (most,
normal, non_specificly_drag_racing, __ fill your own here)
people don't do it.
By your (and Peter's) logic, before the first guy converted an EV in his
garage, that was impossible/infeasible too.
No. Other than for fun, people build EVs because can't buy them.
You CAN buy batteries; better or worse, quite suitable for
an EV as they are today, they *are* available and as good as your
pocket book allows.
If one wants to built one, as Lee pointed out it must excel
in one or few parameters compare to existing ones, or
be cheaper. Else, it is only educational exercise.
What's *your* excuse for not doing it?
I don't have an EV capable of utilising more current than I can get from
readily available batteries such as Hawkers, Optimas and Orbitals.
I accept that, but reasonably *sure* that if you would have it,
you'd search first if you can buy such a battery rather than built one.
Get serious.
I am absolutely serious Victor.
It is quite feasible to build a lead acid battery in one's garage, and a
clean room environment is not necessary.  Period.  You think it is a
silly idea, and that is fair enough, but that does not make it
impossible.  Nor does the fact that no-one on this list 

EV digest 4098

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

- Begin Message ---
You have got to be kiddin!  LR..
- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: Honda, Nissan join suit against CA


Are you serious??
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/14/05 3:33:28 PM >>>
Here's my note:
Thank you for stepping away from your pseudo-econazi persona long
enought
to help sue the state of California into some semblence of rationality
over the global warming fiction and other transportation balderdash.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ 
Cleveland, Occupied TN

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was warned streniously not to consider auto watering.  LR...
- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:04 PM
Subject: Watering BB600's.


I was thinking about options on building an auto-watering system for BB600 
batteries in my head today. One of the problems though would be the danger 
of having a water system connecting a 300+ volt string of batteries. Could 
be odd.

However what if one built several watering circuits, each one say serving 
48 or so volts of battery? Would this work, or would there still be 
voltage potential issues?

Are the TEVan watering circuits one long string or a bunch of little ones?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the best/easiest one i know is MAX712, you can charge all cells you want
using this nicad careful brain :^)

Philippe

Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
 http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php


- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean


> I had plans for a SAFT-aware controller for the PFC-20 but never built it.
>
> When you say "PLANS" Ralph is that a circuit or a wish?  If it is a
circuit
> could you share with the list?  Thanks.  Lawrence Rhodes.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Just the kind of EV I want

So John, you use the FB-4001, not the 4001A? Is the cost of the dual shaft 
not worth the potential of hooking something up to it? And 40 T-105's, wow, 
2,400 lbs, so obviously a set of HD springs. Have you ever considered using 
L-16's? they are about the same in AH, but only 6 inches taller (420 AH at 
20 hr rate, 11.5" x 7" x 16.75" and weight 121 lbs each, much heavier to 
move around) so you save about 3 cu ft and that would mean only 1 
string instead of 2 strings at 120 VDC. Does hooking up 2 strings mean more 
hardware? it means more cable/metal/lugs/crimping/$/etc. Also the footprint 
of the batteries is much smaller, 20.5 sq ft for the 105's vs 11.35 sq ft 
for the L16's, 35% smaller.

  Want range?. I'd go with 20 t-145's.
What about your controller? The description of the 'Beastie' says a 
DCP-1200, but one of the pictures shows a liquid-cooled Auburn Kodiak MPC 
controller. Here in AZ it gets pretty hot in the summer and under the hood 
even hotter, so I guess liquid cooled components are the best way to go if 
they don't drain too much power for the pumps. Or a Zilla?

I also see that the battery connections are bus bar types. Is that a better 
connector for the amps than a cable and lug? easier to make?

Charger - at home I can use 240 so what is a good 120/240 charger?
 A PFC 50. at least.   www.manzanitamicro.com
Also I still don't grasp the concept of not shifting, leaving it in 2nd 
gear and letting the rpms do the work - on the highway, wouldn't it be 
better to shift up to 3rd or even 4th or is it that the torque would not be 
enough to sustain the speed?
  If you let motor rpms drop too low, things will get very hot, not good.
And I understand that it
is possible to shift with out using the clutch?
 I wouldn't recommend shifting without the clutch.
Anyway, all and any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
  You are indeed welcome. Regards, A.K. Howard in the cool Las Vegas 
valley, in amateur rant mode and enjoying life at 8 cents per kwh.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings everyone.
 I'm looking for your knowledgeable opinions concerning this possibility.
 The candidate: a early 1980's Datsun sedan. It has a 114 volt system 
containing 19 T-105 type batteries.

 The possiblilities: A new pack of ten 12 volt optima d-31 (75 ah) for 120 
volts. Pack would weigh about 600 lbs.

 Or putting in a new pack of 19 t-105's weighing about 1200 lbs.
 Range is not an issue. Candidate vehicle not expected to

EV digest 4099

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 reaches the desired level, the second tube
touches. All further electrolyte pumped in just passes on to the next
cell.

The process is repeated in the next cell, and the next, and so on to the
end. You keep pumping until liquid comes out of the last cell's tube.

A couple weaknesses: First, you must pump fresh electrolyte, not water.
Otherwise, all the water passing thru the first cell will dilute its
electrolyte until it is useless. So, you have an electrolyte reservoir,
and run the circulation pump until only electrolyte is coming back from
the last cell. Now add water to the reservoir to bring it back to the
'full' mark. Run the pump a little longer thoroughly mix this watered
down electrolyte through all cells.

Second, when the tubes are full of electrolyte, you have a conductive
path from cell to cell. Current flows thru this path. In effect, you
have a resistor between cells. This causes a high self-discharge
current. it's not high enough to be dangerous, but you will have to blow
air thru the tubes when finished so you don't leave that liquid there.
But, this has the advantage that you can run that air pump any time to
keep batteries vented.

This system is used on large cells, such as those in big battery backup
systems with tons of cells.

On smaller systems (like in EVs), they usually add check valves, floats,
etc. to reroute the flow, so you can just pump water to each cell.
-- 
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity."-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
> 20 Trojan T-875 batteries... Before watering, battery pack 168 volts
> (no load on the batteries). According to specs, 100% state of charge
> open circuit voltage should be 8.49 volts/battery or 169.9 volts for
> the pack.

Ok. That all sounds right.

> Well, now when the charge cycle ends, I see the battery voltage rest at
> 163 to 164 volts.

That's only 2.04v/cell. Either the pack is not fully charged, you have a
bad battery somewhere, or there is some load left connected.

I don't think it could be consequence of watering. You would need to
have FAR too much water to lower the voltage this much. I don't think
it's possible to add this much water without it overflowing out the top.

> I've also just noticed that the pack voltage seems to sag a lot more
> than it used to under load, and my range has decreased.

These symptoms also point to either under-charged batteries, or a bad
one somewhere in the pack. (Or, less likely, a broken voltmeter that's
lying to you, and cold batteries due to the winter weather).

> P.S. I do still have a Lee Hart battery bridge LED circuit connected to
> the pack while driving. I've yet to see any of the red LEDs light up...

Good. That tells me there are no dead cells.

But, I think I would check all your individual battery voltages. It
still may reveal a "stinker". Then I'd try a long low-current equalizing
charge, to see if perhaps your charger isn't charging enough.
-- 
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity."    -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A patent on battery powered snow blowing?
Oh I think I could claim "prior art" on this one :-)
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
Doug Hartley wrote:
 > The mayor of St-Jerome is very pro-EV,
cool place to live!
The electric snowblower was built by Jean-Marie Dubois, now living 
near St-Jerome.It is battery operated, and currently powered by 2 
Orbital 12V batteries. ...   It has a small traction
motor and a larger blower motor, which can be separately controlled.  
I am working with him to develop a controller which implements the 
improvements and way of operation covered by his his patent (pending), 
to make it very easy for anyone to use, and more efficient.

Sounds nice... so when can we buy one? ;-)
More to the point, how long does it last on those two batteries?
_
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Valvoline has a Full synthetic Gear Oil - SAE 75W-90 which is call SynPower.

Is for all standard and limited slip hybroid differentials.  I also use it 
in my standard transmission.

http://www.valvoline.com

Roland


- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:01 AM
Subject: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.


> The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight E.P.  (Extreme pressure)
> Amsoil doesn't make this oil.  Is there a Synthetic that has this spec.?
> The book specifies "Axle

EV digest 4100

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

re.
Have fun!
I do.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> And if you ever look
> at a really clean conversion like the ones Wayland and
> some other's on this list have built, you will see that
> though they are clean, they are no less cluttered and
> complicated looking than a gas car.

OK; I really have to make an effort to get some photos of my conversion
posted!

What Damon writes is largely true, but it doesn't need to be.  One of my
goals with my conversion was to have an underhood area that would
impress people with how much simpler an EV is than an ICE.  To achieve
this, there are *no* traction batteries under the hood; there is just
the 12V system battery in the stock location.  The motor is in plain
sight so that its small size and simplicity relative to the original ICE
are obvious.  The wiring is/will be neatly harnessed (its not yet
complete) to avoid the intimidating science project look.

It is definitely possible to put together a conversion that is less
cluttered and complicated looking than a gas car, you just have to make
that one of your design goals.

Cheers,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland would you say this synthetic Gear oil helped range?  Thanks Lawrence 
Rhodes..
- Original Message - 
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.


Valvoline has a Full synthetic Gear Oil - SAE 75W-90 which is call 
SynPower.

Is for all standard and limited slip hybroid differentials.  I also use it
in my standard transmission.
http://www.valvoline.com
Roland
- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:01 AM
Subject: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.


The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight E.P.  (Extreme pressure)
Amsoil doesn't make this oil.  Is there a Synthetic that has this spec.?
The book specifies "Axle" for the oil in the differencial.  What is Axle
oil?  I was going with their recomendation of the 75-90 Gear Lube.
Lawrence
Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

You might take a look at Al Godfrey's latest porsche.  While the front is
full it is hardly cluttered.  Of course as Roger points out it depends on
your desing goal.  Colins car next door does look a bit cluttered :-).

You can compare it to John's Zombie on page 4 though that might be unfair.
The Zombie is neat but designed for quick access as a drag car.

http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2004/photos/gw/al%20godfrey%20porsche.jpg

http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2004/photos/gw/page_01.htm 

Lawrence

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: February 15, 2005 3:24 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Political Action

damon henry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> And if you ever look
> at a really clean conversion like the ones Wayland and
> some other's on this list have built, you will see that
> though they are clean, they are no less cluttered and
> complicated looking than a gas car.

OK; I really have to make an effort to get some photos of my conversion
posted!

What Damon writes is largely true, but it doesn't need to be.  One of my
goals with my conversion was to have an underhood area that would
impress people with how much simpler an EV is than an ICE.  To achieve
this, there are *no* traction batteries under the hood; there is just
the 12V system battery in the stock location.  The motor is in plain
sight so that its small size and simplicity relative to the original ICE
are obvious.  The wiring is/will be neatly harnessed (its not yet
complete) to avoid the intimidating science project look.

It is definitely possible to put together a conversion that is less
cluttered and complicated looking than a gas car, you just have to make
that one of your design goals.

Cheers,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the Amsoil website they say they have no comperable fluid for the E. P. 
rating.  Consequently no recommendation for the transmission.  I found it 
hard to believe but it's comming from Amsoil.  They did however recommend 
three different oils for the diferential.  LR...
- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.


Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight EP (Extreme pressure)
Amsoil doesn't make this oil. Is there a Synthetic that has this spec?
The book specifies "Axle" for the oil in the differencial. What is
Ax

EV digest 4101

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4101

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Chico EAA meeting Sat. Feb. 19th
by "Chuck Alldrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Red Beastie Info
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Electravan Vs. Curtis 400 amp controller conversion.
  Gearing musings.
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Electravan Vs. Curtis 400 amp controller conversion.  Gearing musings.
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: More water dreams...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV snow blowers?
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EV snow blowers?
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: AC Motors and Reverse
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: More water dreams...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Political Action (OT)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Cluttered and complicated (was RE: Political Action)
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Vas: Re: Hydraulic eff.
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: More water dreams...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) transmission problems
by Brian Staffanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: More water dreams...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Vas: Re: Hydraulic eff.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: EV Owners (One hour south of San Fran, CA) Need Advice
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 27) Vas: Re: Vas: Re: Hydraulic eff.
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) RE: Hydraulic eff.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: transmission problems
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) GM exec(?) comments about EV-1
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 33) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Got the pics, thanks Nick.
I was thinking that you could divide the pack in half, and that would let 
you know which half had the problem, then you could divide the halves in 
half again so that would let you know which quarter was bad, and then if you 
wanted you could divide the quarters in half to know which eighth was the 
problem.

Does that make sense?
I'm sure there is a better circuit with less LEDs...
Rush
- Original Message - 
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Rush,
I have pictures of my build of Lee's battery bridge LED circuit here:
http://driveev.com/temp/battleds/
-Nick

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, they will run backwards, but not too long and not efficiently.

3-phase motors are always tested when they are hooked up for proper
rotation. Single phase motors can be run backward if not hooked up properly.

For EV's, which would use a 3-phase motor, running for reverse should not be
a problem, assuming that the inverter didn't care! BIG assumption, I know!!

Joseph H. Strubhar

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.gremcoinc.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: AC Motors and Reverse


> I don't know how good they run, but they do, I worked fror Grundfos, a
water
> pump manufacturer, and when the electricians on location wired a pump
> incorrectly, it did run backwards.
>
> those were AC brushless submersible motors 380 Volts 5 to 400 hp.
>
>
http://net.grundfos.com/Appl/WebCAPS/CatalogueCtrl;jsessionid=3bnN0WHKvv
> DuHPkcsDGkSAR:-1?cmd=prsr
>
> Ivo
>
> -Mensaje original-
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> nombre de Carl Clifford
> Enviado el: viernes, 11 de febrero de 2005 17:00
> Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Asunto: AC Motors and Reverse
>
>
> Easy question for those more knowledgeable than myself:
>
> Can you run an AC motor backwards?  In other words, if I build an AC
> conversion w/out a transmission will I be able to ba

EV digest 4102

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4102

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: transmission problems
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "Klemkosky, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Fwd: Re: More water dreams...
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: More water dreams...
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: More water dreams...
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) LB-20 Isolated?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: LB-20 Isolated?
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: transmission problems
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Your math (OT) (was Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: LB-20 Isolated?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: RE Current Eliminator News.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 17) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) She's dead Jim
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Ev-1
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Ironic conversion, was RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) RE: More water dreams...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I don't really know another reason not to do so, tinkering with lead or
cadmium happens to be toxic, acids too, so maybe people don't want to get
into that area, you would need to make a small foundry in your garage, store
and handle hazardous chemicals, risk fires and explosions, maybe it's not
just "I don't want to", maybe it's more like "I won't risk it", or "I
can't".

But as you said, if someone really wants to, he can.

Ivo

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Peter VanDerWal
Enviado el: miércoles, 16 de febrero de 2005 15:05
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: 42-volt starting batteries

So how are your experiments in battery building going?  Oh, you're NOT
building anybatteries...why not?

You can't come up with an excuse why you aren't doing it that doesn't
prove my point.

Give one good reason why someone, anyone, isn't building their own
batteries at home even though they see an clear, overall, advantage to
doing so.

I don't think it's pessimistic to say the truth.  People have been
building motors in their garages continously for over a hundred years,
ditto with controllers in one form or another.  I don't know of anyone
that has tried building EV batteries in their garage in the past 1/4
century, there must be a reason.  Seems to me that the most likely reason
is that it's just not worth it (no advantage).

The fact that nobody is willing to try it, pretty conclusively proves my
point that nobody is willing to try it.  I'm not saying they can't do it,
and I'm not saying the shouldn't do it.  What I'm saying is the fact that
they aren't doing it is pretty strong evidence that they don't want to do
it.  If someone saw a real advantage to building them at home, then I'm
sure that someone would be building them at home.

If you have another reason why they aren't doing it, I'd like to hear it.
Attacking my reasoning simply because you don't like it, isn't very
productive.

Basically it looks like to me that we have a few folks on this list trying
to convince someone else to do it.  You can't be bothered to waste your
time/money/whatever, but you're sure that someone else should.

> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:37:46 -0700 (MST), Peter VanDerWal
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>  Saying something is impractical for
>> >> a hobbyist simply because you can't do it the way major manufacturers
>> do
>> >> it is both overly pessimistic and misleading.
>> >
>>
>> I'm going to go with Victor on this.  People build their own EVs because
>> they can't buy them. Even though motors and controllers are readily
>> available, people build their own motors and controllers.  They do this
>> because they see some advantage in doing it themselves.
>>
>> If there was /any/ kind of advantage in building your own batteries
>> /someone/ would be doing it.  Is anyone doing it?That's pretty coclusive
>> evidence that their is no advantage to doing it.
>
> Peter, that's a wee bit pessimistic.  You could have said t

EV digest 4103

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4103

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Ev-1
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: Fwd: Re: More water dreams...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Fwd: Re: More water dreams...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: LB-20 Isolated?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: She's dead Jim
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Ev-1
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: LB-20 Isolated?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Motor Chart and perdictions
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: transmission problems
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: 42-volt starting batteries (ACRX)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: transmission problems
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Gearing musings.
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Vas: Re: Vas: Re: Hydraulic eff.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Battery boxes
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: LB-20 Isolated?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Gadget's Conversion
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Battery boxes
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: GM exec(?) comments about EV-1
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
<<<  I just got back from Burbank. I woe my Suck Amps t shirt. If we do
nothing who will? I expect to see more rally's. I do Know that will be someone
at
Gm watching the cars until they are crushed!

Larry Cronk 72 Datsun Elec tk >>>

I thought they were all crushed by now - are there still some intact?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, $11 a cap for 250=$2,750 which is just right on the noggin of the 
cost of a pack o' Hawkers :-)

$6k for a pack that lasts more than 3 times a Hawker pack is kind of a 
bargain.

Chris
Dave Cover wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.aquapro.net/aquapro_how.html

They look great but has anyone found a reasonably priced source for these? I 
saw them for about
$11 US each. I'm trying to find a solution for BB600s and these would end up 
costing more than the
cells, not in my budget.
Dave Cover

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another thought: Would a serious bulk order (say 4 people for a 
thousand) drop the price somewhat?

Chris
Dave Cover wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.aquapro.net/aquapro_how.html

They look great but has anyone found a reasonably priced source for these? I 
saw them for about
$11 US each. I'm trying to find a solution for BB600s and these would end up 
costing more than the
cells, not in my budget.
Dave Cover

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> "The LB-20 will handle the maximum 20 ampere charging current of the
> BC-20.
> It consists of a transformer whose isolated secondary provides a 20 VAC
> voltage which is connected in series with the primary input voltage to the
> BC-20 just before the coil, thus raising the BC-20 input voltage to 140
> VAC."
>
> This seems to indicate that the LB-20 is an isolated transformer, not an
> autotransformer.  Am I reading that correctly?
>

Since the secondary of the LB-20 is wired in series with the BC-20 and
directly connected to the line, the whole thing ends up being
non-isolated.

In fact, the way it's wired up, one side of the LB-20 primary is directly
connected to one side of the LB-20 secondary (defeating your isolation).
The other side of the LB-20 secondary is connected to the BC-20, with the
other side of the BC-20 directly connected to the remaining side of the
LB-20 primary.
Hmm let me give some of this ASCII artwork a try.


  LB-20
--+---+
 *P   S
  P   S
  P   S*
--+   +BC-20--+
  |   |
  +---+


Anyway, the net effect is that the LB-20 functions as a

EV digest 4104

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

e 26% or 52% eff, thus 2x to 4x the power could it overcome
the startup time penelties of a few seconds or minutes?  
Also, would wind energy be allowed?
It is after all solar driven.
I would love to take part but alas I can't afford the PV nor the
stirling engines that it would take to make something like this.
L8r
 Ryan
Roy LeMeur wrote:
For additional rules and information you can check out the web page at:
http://users.applecapital.net/~jim/solardragrace.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is absurd to think that a single 250m sprint is going to result in 
very intricate designs or high cost cars.  That said, the way to do 
it is with cheap Fresnel lenses and concentrator solar (PV) cells 
(>30% eff.).  I know multiple road racing solar car teams have 
considered this approach, but it is not feasible for a race where the 
sun angle changes throughout the day.

Keith
Ryan wrote:
It seems to me that there are two ways to utilize solar energy,
   in a rapid enough fassion to be of use in a race that is.
1. PV's ~13% effecient Solar to Electricity, very rapid conversion!
2. Heat engine. Potentially more effecient, but far less rapid.
Option #1 is probably the easiest to implament. But I like
Option #2 if for no other reason than that it's a lesser known method.
If #2 were 26% or 52% eff, thus 2x to 4x the power could it overcome
the startup time penelties of a few seconds or minutes?  
Roy LeMeur wrote:
For additional rules and information you can check out the web page at:
http://users.applecapital.net/~jim/solardragrace.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
I just recently sold my Datsun 510 after owning it for over 10 years, It 
seems an
EV interest sort of took over. I first heard about EV conversions from the 
Datsun
510 mailing list. Every once in a while someone would mention these 
electric Datsuns
and how fast and clean they were, those cars were White Zombie and Blue Meanie.
Needless to say I was interested and I researched conversions, joined this 
list and bought a
VW pickup conversion. That was in 2001 and I've been driving it ever since 
and haven't
killed my pack yet.
I'd love to convert a 1200 coupe(I know I know :)) or maybe a 510 wagon.

George S.
VW Rabbit pickup
Rav4EV
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Gadget and all:
Here's some pics I took:
http://www.evsource.com/images/conversion/orbital1.jpg
http://www.evsource.com/images/conversion/orbital2.jpg
http://www.evsource.com/images/conversion/orbital3.jpg
Sorry, not resized, and I didn't take one of the top portion 
lengthwise.  If you need it, let me know.

These are just a few of the enormous quantity of pictures I've taken, 
and haven't posted yet...a!  Anybody want a project updating a 
website?  evgrin.com needs major help too.  Contact me off list if 
interested in donating web-development talent and time.

I'm putting together some battery boxes for my triumph
conversion. Does anybody have an exide orbital to take
some dimensions from? The manufacturers info says that
the battery has a footprint of 7" X 11.21" with a
height of 8.12". does that include the side terminals?
and does the height include the top terminals or is
that just the case height? 

   Gadget
 

-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We found that this battery can fit in exactly the same space as stock Vego 
batteries.  Just a half ah loss. This battery is also designed for high 
discharge rate.  Around 20 dollars each.
http://www.power-sonic.com/ PSH-12100 10.5ah
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 
> Lähettäjä: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Päivä: 16.02.2005 19:51
> Vastaanottaja: 
> Otsikko: RE: Hydraulic eff.
> 
> Seppo Lindborg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I suppose the real question is whether or not this is superior in any
> way to simply using 2 ordinary induction motors with the stators wired
> as one.  The advantage of using a pair of ordinary motors is that you
> avoid the cost/complexity of a custom-built 2-rotor machine that
> requires some sort of central bearing support for the internal ends of
> each rotor.  The only disadvantage I see is that you have the extra
> weight of a pair of endbells, however that is offset by the weight of
> the central bearing support of the 2-rotor machine.

You might not need the central bearing. It might work making the motor axle 
halves hollow and putting in there a steel rod to keep the ha

EV digest 4105

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

27;s just not worth it (no advantage). The fact that
>> nobody is willing to try it, pretty conclusively proves my point
>
> Peter, your reasoning is flawed. You are taking an egocentric view, and
> assuming that everyone's situation is just like yours. If you don't do
> it, no one can do it. If you don't know how, no one knows how. If you've
> never heard of anyone doing it, then it's never been done.

What is it with you people??!!??  You keep trying to put words into my
mouth and completely ignore it when I correct yo.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE.  I NEVER SAID IT CAN'T BE DONE!

What I said was that, as far as I know, nobody IS doing it, which is a
pretty darn good indication that it's not worth doing.
I still firmly believe that if it was worth doing then somebody,
somewhere, would be doing it.

What I am doing, and what I'm capable of doing, has absolutely no bearing
on these statements and doesn't indicate anything egocentric.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure, provided that you could find a 120V to 140V(give or take)
transformer rated at 30 amps or more on the secondary.

> Thanks for the picture.  I understand now.  So would it work to replace
> the
> LB-20 with a real boost transformer?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:59 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: LB-20 Isolated?
>
>>
>> "The LB-20 will handle the maximum 20 ampere charging current of the
>> BC-20.
>> It consists of a transformer whose isolated secondary provides a 20 VAC
>> voltage which is connected in series with the primary input voltage to
>> the
>> BC-20 just before the coil, thus raising the BC-20 input voltage to 140
>> VAC."
>>
>> This seems to indicate that the LB-20 is an isolated transformer, not an
>> autotransformer.  Am I reading that correctly?
>>
>
> Since the secondary of the LB-20 is wired in series with the BC-20 and
> directly connected to the line, the whole thing ends up being
> non-isolated.
>
> In fact, the way it's wired up, one side of the LB-20 primary is directly
> connected to one side of the LB-20 secondary (defeating your isolation).
> The other side of the LB-20 secondary is connected to the BC-20, with the
> other side of the BC-20 directly connected to the remaining side of the
> LB-20 primary.
> Hmm let me give some of this ASCII artwork a try.
>
>
>   LB-20
> --+---+
>  *P   S
>   P   S
>   P   S*
> --+   +BC-20--+
>   |   |
>   +---+
>
>
> Anyway, the net effect is that the LB-20 functions as an autotransformer.
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> It seems to me that there are two ways to utilize solar energy,
> in a rapid enough fassion to be of use in a race that is.
> 1. PV's ~13% effecient Solar to Electricity, very rapid conversion!
> 2. Heat engine. Potentially more effecient, but far less rapid.
>
> Option #1 is probably the easiest to implament. But I like
> Option #2 if for no other reason than that it's a lesser known method.
> If #2 were 26% or 52% eff, thus 2x to 4x the power could it overcome
> the startup time penelties of a few seconds or minutes?  

There are PV cells available that are over 20% efficient.

I've never heard of any heat engine hitting 52%, do you have a reference?
I know they have a 10kva solar generator at Ft Huachuca that used
something like a sterling engine.  When it worked, it was supposed to be
over 30% efficient, but that was solar to electricicty.  Going solar to
mechanical movement would have eliminated a conversion step and have
higher efficiency.

As for the slow startup time, well it's a drag racerev the engine and
dump the clutch ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Supposedly the EP lubes have more sulfur in them, which is corrosive to
the synchronizers in transmissions, and why they are recommended only
for axles.

Patrick

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/15/05 4:07:31 PM >>>
Roland would you say this synthetic Gear oil helped range?  Thanks
Lawrence 
Rhodes..
- Original Message - 
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.


> Valvoline has a Full synthetic Gear Oil - SAE 75W-90 which is call 
> SynPower.
>
> Is for all standard and limited slip hybroid differentials.  I also
use it
> in my standard transmission.
>
> http://www.valvoline.com 
>
> Roland
>
>
> - Original Message - 

EV digest 4106

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4106

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: She's dead Jim
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Home made batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Battery boxes
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: She's dead Jim
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: More water dreams...
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: She's dead Jim
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Diodes and Contactors (was: She's dead Jim)
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Home made batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: She's dead Jim
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) help
by "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: More water dreams...
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: inexpensive ebike conversion kit
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: building your own batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Need Vicor DC/DC
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: She's dead Jim
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Torque Steer (was: 42-volt starting batteries)
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Torque Steer
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah,
Cliff's first question was if I had a PM motor and he was quite surprised to 
find out I had a series wound.  My fireworks were all happening a few inches 
behind my calf.

From: "Brown, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: 
Subject: RE: She's dead Jim
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:13:29 -0600
Damon,
One of my Alltrax controllers did the same thing.  It failed, wide open,
in a very dramatic fashion with a shower of sparks and smoke within a
couple days of me installing it in a 48V go-kart.  Luckily, I had the
chain drive off at the time otherwise it would have taken off without me
down the driveway.  My Dad had another one which he purchased within
days of mine and I installed it and haven't had a problem since.
Alltrax replaced the fried one at no cost to me but never mentioned
anything about a diode.
All in all I give their product and customer support a good grade but
every time I get on my go-kart or my new dirt-bike conversion that
dramatic incident flashed through my head...  Realize the controller is
right between my legs (couple inches) on both these vehicles.  Its not a
place where you want a shower of sparks pouring out...(unless you want
an "e-vasectomy"..;-) ) not to mention going on a hell of ride until you
can cut the power...
BTW - I searched the Net and found two websites with similar stories of
other people who had this happen to them though they were all attached
to Etek motors, including mine, which supposedly they have fixed in all
the new ones.
Regards,
-
Jay Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:41 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: She's dead Jim
So I talked to Alltrax and while issuing me an RA Cliff gave me a pretty
hard time about not having a diode across my main contactor.  To be
honest
it wasn't there because I just dropped this controller in when I pulled
out
my Curtis Controller which doesn't show a need for a diode.  Could this
really have contributed to the problem?  I have no problem adding a
diode, I
just couldn't get a satisfactory answer out of Cliff as to why in his
mind
this was so crucial.  He even mentioned that in the install instructions
it
is recommended, which I pointed out was not quite as forceful and
stating
that it is required.  He just kept going on about how fields collapse
and
cause huge votage spikes, which I don't disagree with, I just don't see
how
a diode across the main contactor does anything to limit damage to my
controller from these spikes.  I also don't understand why this
seemingly
important protection is not built into the controller itself.
damon
>

EV digest 4107

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4107

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: She's dead Jim
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Sniping
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: She's dead Jim
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Torque Steer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Stuffing the brains into my variac
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) torque stteering ACRX
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: help
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Diodes and Contactors (was: She's dead Jim)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Torque Steer
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Is Dennis getting bored?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) torque steer
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Drag racing electric vehicles..
by "Jonathan \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This is a common problem. It may be rear wheel
alignment. Have you ever seen a vehicle "crabbing"
down the street? where the rear end is slightly off
from the front track, driving down the road at a
slight angle. check the rear end, if it is the problem
it should fix the torque steer as well as the rolling
resistance. It could be that one rear wheel is out of
alignment causing the extra drag and the crabbing.

Gadget
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ACRX normally uses 1Ah/mile, but this is not too
> meaningful
> for omparison at diferent voltages.
> 
> I consume ~200Wh/mile (@ 35mph), which is very
> average.
> Dragging rear brakes and wrong tires are
> contributors to that.
> 
> Also, I suspect front alignment needs work and here
> is
> the area you may know the answer at:
> 
> When I accelerate, the car pulls left a little, and
> when
> slowing down using only regen on front wheels -
> pulls right.
> 
> It doesn't pull at all if I use disk brakes.
> 
> Almost like having constant brake or friction around
> left (?) half shaft, so the torque of acceleration
> or braking
> is not divided quite evenly. Another reason in
> theory may be that
> the front tires diameters are differnt, but they are
> inflated
> to the same PSI so I can't imagine this to be the
> case.
> 
> Which suspension element or parameter (camber,
> caster. etc)
> can be responsible for this behavior? Or it is not
> suspension at all?
> The car is straight, never been in an accident.
> 
> Victor
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > In a message dated 2/16/05 6:48:04 PM Pacific
> Standard Time, 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > 
> > << Or, let's compete who sips less Wh per 1/4 mile
> provided
> >  minimum speed is maintained. I WILL participate,
> because put
> >  efforts to optimize ACRX in that res >>
> > Hi Victor what would you suppose your amp hr used
> in the qt.mi is?And what is 
> > your car weight?The CE uses 1.1amp hr per qt.mi
> run including the drive to 
> > the lanes and back from the time booth.It weighs
> 1383lbs with me in it.Dennis 
> > Berube
> 
> 


=
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand these analogies, but the point is I don't have a 48 volt coil.  
I was assuming when he was talking about collapsing fields he was refering 
to fields in the motor or internal to the controller.  I could not visuilize 
by looking at the circuit how a diode across my main contactor (a manual 
switch) would help.

From: Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: She's dead Jim
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:25:01 -0800
He mentioned spikes of 40,000 volts, which leads me to believe he was
thinking of something else.
One can only wonder what... the voltage spike across a 48V coil (in your
e-motorcycle's case) isn't going to get anywhere near that level.
Keep in mind we're talking about the same circuit that's used to drive 
spark plugs in an ICE

EV digest 4108

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4108

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Alignment 
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Vicor DC/DC - IOTA power supplies
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Stuffing the brains into my variac
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Vespa conversion candidate on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  8) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: She's dead Jim
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: She's dead Jim
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: She's dead Jim
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: More water dreams...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: She's dead Jim
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) 144vdc charger options needed,  was Re: help
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) brushes 
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 26) Re: brushes
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:06:21 AM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Supposedly the EP lubes have more sulfur in them, which is corrosive to
the synchronizers in transmissions, and why they are recommended only
for axles.

Patrick

 GL5 is an EP lube, and your right, they contain Sulfur and Phosphor 
compounds. This is bad for any Transmissions with Bronze Synchros or copper 
parts. 
In my 1974 TR6 transmission GL4 was recommended because it has no Sulfur or 
Phosphorus. In later years Triumph started using steel synchros and I have 
heard GL5 is ok for them but I still wonder about bushings. I have no Idea 
whether 
specific Japanese or American transmissions have bronze bushings or copper 
parts in them. GL4 is getting hard to find it seems there is no market for it. 
Sta Lube  still makes a GL4, it is available through NAPA stores. If you have 
an older trans I would go with it. As far as Differential lube these are Hypoid 
gears and require an EP lube. 
 Get the skinny on all your favorite lubricants from the horses mouth. 
Roy Howell, Chief chemist Redline, in a page I found at the VTR (Vintage 
Triumph 
Register) site. Lubricants Notes from Redline   
 Rick Miller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Leave the rear alone, assuming you can even adjust it. Often there is a 
lot of negative camber and a bit of toe in.  The front can usually be 
adjusted a lot. If you leave the caster alone (assuming that is 
adjustable, and it may not be) then 0 camber and 0 toe should roll 
well. A slight toe out is dynamically unstable but the torque caused by 
tire patch thrust about the lower control arm elastomer bushings should 
go a bit toe in, resulting in 0 toe. Might be twitchy on the brakes 
that way as you get more toe out. This is as much a feel thing as 
anything, espcailly in ruts on the excuses you guys have for road 
surfaces out West with very friable asphalt with coarse stone.

Seth
On Feb 17, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Depends on the manufacturer. I seen some at 0 and up
to 1/8" of toe in. Oval racers actually set their rear
end up off to the side to make use of the effect since
they only turn in one direction while racing.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Interesting. OK, I'll make a note to check rear
wheels
alignment. BTW, do you know if rear wheels must be
set
to "0" toe in (they are adjusted independently) or
what is
the recommended number?
Victor
Reverend Gadget wrote:
This is a common problem. It may be rear wheel
alignment. Have you ever seen a vehicle "crabbing"
down the street? where the rear end is slightly
off
from the front track, driving down the road at a
slight angle. check the rear end, if it is the
problem
it should fix the torque steer as well as the

EV digest 4109

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4109

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: brushes
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 144vdc charger options needed,  was Re: help
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Turner multi speed gearbox
by mark ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Nick Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif. (also, un-disabling an EV-1?)
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: She's dead Jim
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Turner multi speed gearbox
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Help with predicting motor power-repeat and long
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Drag racing electric vehicles..
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: She's dead Jim
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: New venting batt
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) Re: Torque Steer
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) Otmar Efficiency
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Vespa conversion candidate on eBay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Stuffing the brains into my variac
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) High energy usage.  Flooded batteries.  
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: She's dead Jim
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

> I lost the e mail with info for getting brushes that Otmar 
> posted , can anyone repost it , or send it to me , thanks Steve Clunn 
> 

Steve,

did you look for my message? Below it is:

Markus

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus L
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:21 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Source for GE motor brushes?
> 
> 
> 
> Otmar,
> 
> I just recently had to find brushes for my Elec-trac GE sep-ex motor. 
> I called Repco, talked to Scott Tussey, and he dug up the right
> brushes for me. He was VERY helpful and knowledgeable. He said he's
> been selling brushes since '72. I highly recommend him:
> 
> http://www.repcoinc.com
> Repco Inc.
> 6 Eves Dr,
> Marlton NJ 08053
> Scott Tussey
> 1-800-822-9190
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Markus
> 
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know how many people are at the sit-in today and the phone 
number for a pizza delivery service nearby? I would like to send these 
guys/gals some lunch.

Chris
STEVE CLUNN wrote:

Sorry to be so down on the manufacturers, but they are clearly working 
hard
against EVs.  Too much risk for less money to be made; much better to 
direct
the tide of public acceptance toward the more complex solutions that will
generate higher profit margins.  Like hybrids and FCEVs

I would *love* for someone to prove me wrong.  I don't hold out much 
hope.

Chris
The way to do it is to get enough conversions on the road , at some 
point the car manufacturers will do a flip flop , and there will be all 
electrics by them . I think this is the job at hand right now , get as 
many conversion out there with as many people driving them , . I think 
the "Fun factor" is what is needed , saving money , environment , and 
dependence on oil are all good , but , if we can sell EV's as fun and 
the next great auto hobby ect , that will be a step  .
steve clunn

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree, Steve - I just wish that I could get anyone interested enough to
pay me to do a conversion for them!!

Joseph H. Strubhar

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.gremcoinc.com
- Original Message - 
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.


>
> > Sorry to be so down on the manufacturers, but they are clearly working
> > hard
> > against EVs.  Too much risk for less money to be made; much better to
> > direct
> > the tide of public acceptance toward the more complex solutions that
will
> > generate higher profit margins.  Like hybrids and FCEVs
> >
> > I would *love* for someone to prove me wrong.  I don't hol

EV digest 4110

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

s Magic to be made inside the motor case.



- Original Message - 
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Is Dennis getting bored?


> I wrote:
> >That's 1.1 Ahr at a nominal 360V so that's a bit under 400 W/hr or
> >probably closer to 300 W/hr considering battery sag. All that for
> >about 1 mile of driving including exceeding 100 mph and stopping
> >again  in a 1400 lb car.
>
> This got me to thinking, how much energy is in the car when it
> crosses the line?
> I'm going to assume that he is doing 100 mph on these runs, but doing
> the math (possibly incorrectly) makes me wonder about that.
> So, Let's see if I can do this
> KE = (1/2)mv^2
> KE = Energy (in Joules)
> m = mass (in kilograms)
> v = velocity (in meters/sec)
>
> 100mph, = 45 m/S  (online calculator)
> 1400 lbs = 635 kg. (handy calculator)
> = 1.29 MJ   / 3600 = 357 w/hr.  (1 joule is 1 Watt/second, so there
> should be 3600 J in a W/hr.
>
> Hey Dennis, How fast are you going during these 1.1 Ahr runs?  I'm
> guessing it's closer to 90 mph which would be 282 W/hr, still some
> amazing efficinecy.
>
> Is my math off here?
> -- 
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/  Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914  My electric 914
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My guess is you're not charging completely. Your simple voltmeter state of
charge gauge might read full until a load is placed on the batteries.

Try specific gravity measurements at end of charge, let us know what they
are.

-- 

Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford


>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 1:03 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
>
> I seem to be gettiing lousy range with the Electravan.  It has a state of
> charge meter that doesn't seem to lie so I trust it.  When I took my first
> long round trip 10 miles.  I went 5 miles and the meter said 50%.  I
> waited
> for one hour and the meter read 70%.  Huge bounce back.  I drove home and
> the meter read 40% when I got home.  I didn't wait for bounce back.  The
> range has been going like that untill today when I charged the day before
> and didn't drive.  I took the car to the shop for alignment and after 50
> yards it registered 85%.  By the time I went the one mile to the Shop it
> was
> around 69%.  Is this normal for Lead acid letting it sit for a day and
> have
> that kind of loss?  Reading 50% on the meter is between 122 & 123VDC..
> Verified with a good meter.  I get a gut feeling that something is binding
> but amps stay low.  I have to try real hard to get it to pull 100 amps.
> Full throttle taking off can draw 150 amps but not for long.  The truck
> accelerates well.  What am I doing wrong
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


Damon,
   I pretty much use what you are proposing. I use a BS2-SX to control a
variac and to read each individual battery via a optically isolated V-F
converter on each battery. The stamp also controls a bank of relays
(like Lee Harts balancer) that I use to add an additional 4 amps to the
lowest battery in the string during and after the bulk charging phase.
The V-F converters for each battery use a single wire for data and power
and seem to work well.
  I can supply a schematic if you send me your snail mail address.
Pat Sweeney
KickGas E-Fiero
E-Bent Bike
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:44 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Stuffing the brains into my variac

OK, I guess it will be as straight forward as I thougt it might.  I am
using 
a Basic Stamp 2 (BS2-IC) which does not have a built in ADC, so I guess
I 
will need to pick a couple of those up.  Do I need to be concerned about

protecting my BS2 from anything I am measuring.  It seems to me that
between 
the shunt for the current and the voltage divider it is pretty well 
protected, but I don't have a lot of experience building circuits, so I 
haven't had a lot of chances to learn from my mistakes.

BTW - I know there are other chips out there that might be a better fit
than 
the Basic Stamp, but I already have one, and I have some familiarity 
programming it.

Even though it is the hard part of this project, for me the softwa

EV digest 4111

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4111

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) posted ProEV's first Lithium Polymer test drive
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: New venting batt
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Stuffing the brains into my variac
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Torque Steer
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 144vdc charger options needed,  was Re: help
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: 144vdc charger options needed,  was Re: help
by russco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Torque Steer
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Vespa conversion candidate on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 17) Thanks
by "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Torque Steer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Torque Steer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I do not understand what length of the half shaft has to do 
> with transmitting torque drom its one end to another.

Two things: the longer shaft may 'wrap up' (twist) more when torque is
applied; also the CV joints will operate at different angles on the
short shaft than on the long one (not sure how much effect this has, but
it is there).

Cheers,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too would love to hear from others that I highly respect such as 
Lee and Oat.
As I understand the question, it's how to best classify drag racing 
vehicles.
That of course would depend on what the goal is.
Do you want them all to run close to the same speed? Spec. parts.
Do you want the most efficient one to win?  Spec. power.
I think it's important to foster innovation, but also to provide some 
areas where you can't just buy your way to a win. I don't know the 
best way to do that, it's a difficult issue.

I think the voltage classes are pretty good because low voltage is 
usually much cheaper. But of course lithium is going to allow people 
to buy a win in any category. Yet, I don't want to penalize lithium 
since I believe it will keep getting cheaper and better.

If you want low cost, innovative competitive racing, then I would 
stick to the voltage classes but further limit some class to lead 
acid only, or maybe even spec the battery model and quantity. (say, 
12 Orbitals). Basically a power limit. That would keep cost down and 
let people work on the details other than batteries which are 
relatively cheap.

Really though, I don't know what is best. I am thankful that NEDRA 
has already done such a great job thinking this out!

As for the solar race, I would think it's best benefit would be for 
innovative experiments including thermal engines and the like. 
Unfortunately the rule #1 does not allow that, so I don't see what 
will be done to make it interesting.

just my 2 W*hr  (thanks David D for the correction :-)
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everybody,
We are filling in some gaps on our website.
Under Electic Imp Project, Testing Log, Vehicle testing log we added the
last of the information about our testing with the old hawker cyclon pack.
May 14, 2003  on is new.
June 24, 2004 covers our first test drive with the Kokam Lithium Polymer
cells.
Under Testing Log, Battery test log, we have posted a look at voltage under
load vs State of Charge on the Kokam's. Sorry about the Excel file, but it
was easiest to do the graphs in.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> OK, I can run it few times if you ask nicely :-)
> I'm afraid, though it may not pass formal safety inspection.

Please, please! ;^>

>From the pictures on your site, I suspect you would not have much
trouble passi

EV digest 4112

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4112

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Torque Steer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Contact GM to save the remaining EV1s
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Torque steer
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Need Vicor DC/DC
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Vego swingarm needed.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: New venting batt
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: High energy usage.  Flooded batteries.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Lots of DCP's without smoke available! was RE: More water
 dreams...
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) >
> Subject:
> Re: 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
by canev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Surplus motor specification
by mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Contact GM to save the remaining EV1s
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: >> Subject:> Re: 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Two 200Ah TS Cells Available?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor here is another thought for you.
You might want to carefully check the upper control arms, especially the 
passenger side.  The pivots on the inboard side often wear oddly and allow 
excessive motion.  This seems to be a fairly high wear item on 4th 
generation (88-91) Civic and CRXs.  When they go bad they can allow the 
upper end of the spindle to shift quite a bit, seriously effecting 
suspension geometry.  I think the passenger side arm wears a bit faster 
because most folks turn left at higher speeds than they turn right (trying 
to clear oncoming traffic) and thus transfer more stress onto that side.

You may have to lift the car on stand to check this, with the weight of the 
car on it, it may not move by hand.

I've had to replace the upper arms on all three of our 4gen Civics.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back in '92, I saw my first "solar powered" dragster (in California), 0-60 
in 4 seconds.
I was amazed.
This is the way they did it.
Custom dragster frame (not very high tech).
solar cells to charge two 12V lead acid batteries (group 24).
When they were full, they ran a pump which compressed nitrogen in tanks.
When the light turned green, they opened the valve and the nitrogen was 
released through a system which rotated the rear tires...very fast.
It basically was a one time shot.  12 hours of daylight for 6 seconds of 
fun.
I have pictures if anyone is interested.
Marc Kohler

- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race


Roy LeMeur wrote:
This is a totally different take on it coming from the Solar
Raycing community. I don't think we have seen too many of these
guys at NEDRA EVents  :^D
One of the NEDRA races also had an electrathon race. They are a lot like
solar cars. Someone even had a solar powered EV there, though he was
just driving around the parking lot with it.
I would bet money that there "are not any" solar electric drag
racers out there.
Seems logical. The solar cars all seem to be built for other purposes,
though of course you can drag race anything if you're so inclined.
We have been tossing ideas around endlessly at work, FT (Don
Crabtree) and I have spent a bunch of time talking about it.
Still trying to get the Cloud brothers interested...  :^0
It may come down to who can spend the most money for the best
and most and lightest weight PV cells (can you say ISS?) that
will fit within the 7' by 20' maximum platform specified.
That's my thought as well. I think races that are won mainly by who can
spend the most are rather boring. The way they set up their rules
disallows creative solutions, and means whoever can afford the best PV
panels is the likely winner.
It might have been more fun if they specified the PV pan

EV digest 4113

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4113

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Contact GM to save the remaining EV1s
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) 12 v system battery question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: High energy usage.  Flooded batteries.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) using a brush motor after long sitting 
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting 
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Any news or updates?
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Constant rpm
by "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting 
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: 12 v system battery question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 25) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Weight and Balance (was Re: 12 v system battery question)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) paging Steve Ciciora- your e-mail is bouncing
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 33) Re: High energy usage.  Flooded batteries.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I sent mine!!
Sherry Boschert wrote:
see the info at: http://ev1.org.
Robert A. Lutz, Chairman, GM Product Development:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Richard Wagoner, President and CEO
Both at: 315-556-5000 (ph) or 315-556-5108 (fax)
> General Motors, 300 Renaissance Center, Detroit, MI
> 48265-3000
These numbers, both ph and fax:
"has been disconnected and is no longer in service"
AUHH! Area Code 313 ! (313) 556-5000, Fax line didn't work.
phone opperators available: 7am - 6pm M - F est.
Oh I'm so tempted to "In case of emergency"
call their security to let them no that:
" HAY! SOMEONE IS CRUSHING YOUR CARS !!! "
" QUICK, MAKE THEM STOP!! "
" Click "
In the GM Advanced Technology Vehicles (GMATV)
division:
Bob Purcell, Executive Director
Kenneth Stewart, Marketing Director, New Ventures
Jill Banaszynski, GMATV
248-680-5509 (ph) or 248-680-5600 (fax)
> 1996 Tecnology Dr., Troy, MI 48083-4243
Ringing! Transfered to Voice Mail!
Found "Cliff Lutz", but no "Purcell" in the directory.
L8r
 Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Ok; if efficiency is your god, then wind your motor with silver wire!
>> Silver also happens to be mechanically stronger than copper, which
>> also helps.

M.G. wrote:
> Yes but which has a higher melting point?

Silver melts at 960 deg.C; copper at 1083 deg.C. However, your
insulation will have failed long before this, so the question is
academic.
-- 
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those that use a DC/DC converter along with a 12 volt battery in 
their conversions, what battery do you use. In particular I am wonder 
how heavy of a battery people use.

Thanks,
John O'Connor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have used everything from a 2 pound gel cell to a 60 pound gr

EV digest 4114

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4114

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: High energy usage.  Flooded batteries.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) engine weights
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Weighing stuff... Re: engine weights
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: engine weights
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Weighing stuff... Re: engine weights
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Weight and Balance (was Re: 12 v system battery question)
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) GM is moving the EV1s NOW
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Siemens motors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: High energy usage.  Flooded batteries.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 12 V battery question
by "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) BLDC system versus AC induction
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Weighing stuff... Re: engine weights
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Question for John Wayland - E-disconnect
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 20, 2005, at 6:55 PM, Seth Allen wrote:
www.solectria.com sells DC-DCs in that range, although they are geared 
more towards oem. I don't know if electro automotive carries them. You 
are looking at more than $1/watt, I think for the Solectria parts. The 
12V non battery charging work the best (most reliably) if you size 
them correctly.

http://www.solectria.com/products/dcdcconv.html
Yup, apparently Electro Automotive does carry them, for rather more 
than $1/watt.

http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#accessories
EA's site says that the non-battery-charging units are to be used 
without an accessory battery, and the Solectrica site says that the 
non-battery-charging units are NOT to be used to charge a 12v battery.

Why do you recommend the non-battery-charging units?  I guess it's 
academic for me since they're out of my price range, but I'm still 
curious.


Seth
On Feb 20, 2005, at 7:03 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
http://www.vicr.com/documents/datasheets/ds_batmod.pdf
Didn't Lee Hart tell us that this was not a complete DC/DC, and that 
there are a number of other components needed?


Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question

While we're on the subject, anyone know of a dc to dc
converter to use on a 156V setup? I've only found them
to 120V. If there is such a thing I'm sure you guys
would know. Thanks
Gadget
=
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
I am also looking for a DC/DC converter for my 192v conversion and not 
having much luck, except for the discontinued DCP DC/DC converter, so I 
look forward to any responses to the Reverend's query.

Thanks,
Doug
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Uh are you saying the Lester has the capability to turn itself off?  I 
haven't noticed.  I have been turning off the charger when it hits 1amp or 
less.  LR..
- Original Message - 
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.


On 19 Feb 2005 at 23:55, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
At what temperature should one switch to
the winter setting?
The winter setting switches the charger on periodically to keep the 
battery
warm.  If you insulate your bat

EV digest 4115

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

gt;
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: BLDC system versus AC induction


> I think the Prius, Insight and Civic Hybrids use
> Brushless DC motors (synchronous AC or permanent
> magnet brushless).  Since these motors are more
> expensive to produce, why do all of the hybrids use
> this type of motor?  A well designed BLDC is more
> efficient than an AC induction, but not by much.  Do
> these motor regen much better in this application?
> This is the only simplistic reason I can come up with
> to explain the added expense of this motor in a
> hybrid.
> If anybody has application notes or technical
> descriptions via the interenet I would appreciate this
> info.
> Thanks,
> Rod
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've done some updating to my copy of Uve's EV Calculator
(http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html) and find that in including
the Exide Orbital and Deka Intimidator to the battery input, I've eliminated
any flooded 12V batteries! Since these aren't known for great range or cycle
life, I wasn't sure if anyone would care. Also, are there any other entries I
can add? If you can supply the specs (motors, batteries, whatever), please send
them to me: cowtown @ spamcop.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,

IMO these motors are great. We have a complete ranger drive in our
shop right now which we are putting into a dodge neon. 

However, the motors offered by Electro Mavin are only the bare
motors. The ranger drive has a differential (and I think a 
gear reduction) added to it that also has a "park" position. 
The half-shafts are then coupled directly to this motor/differential
combination. The motor for sale is missing all this.

Also they do not sell matching inverters and I think the inverter
is actually the expensive part in such a system. On the EV trading
post I saw an AC traction controller for sale in about the right
power range. Maybe somebody could combine the two and adapt them to 
each other. For me this would be too much of a task and risk, I 
would rather pay more and get a warranted and working solution from
MetricMind.

Markus

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:14 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Siemens motors
> 
> 
> Electro Mavin co. has the following Siemens AC Induction 
> Electric Vehicle 
> motors FOR SALE...
> 
> AC ELECTRIC MOTORS made by SIEMENS as used in the FORD 
> ELECTRIC RANGERS
> 
> We do not have any Inverters or Controllers or 
> Batteries.just the above 
> mentioned motors only
> 
> This is the situation with these Ranger motors.  Does anyone 
> know if there 
> are off the shelf solutions for these?  Is an adapter needed 
> or will it bolt 
> right into a Ranger or a gear reduction   Lawrence Rhodes...
> 
> 
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519 
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee etc.
But cars have used a fixed float voltage for EON's and the batteries last
fairly long.  I set my DC converter to 14.2V which seams like the best
compromise in momentary (1 hour drive time nominal) float charging (under
load 13.8V).  There isn't any starter in an EV, so the 14.5V that most ICE's
use would be too high. I've used a U-1 battery on my EV's and usually last
the duration of how long I keep it, about 5 years.
Mark
- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question


> Seth Allen wrote:
> > As for the price: You will find that Vicor DC-DCs cost about a
> > buck a watt or more when purchased in high quantity. And that
> > Solectria DC-DC is more than a Vicor in terms of parts (housing,
> > heatsink, PCB, engineering) and labor, overhead, etc.
>
> Yes; the Vicor module is 90% of a DC/DC converter, but you still need
> all those little "extra parts" if it is to work right. Basically, it
> needs:
>
> - noise filters
> - fault protection (fuses, overtemp limiters, etc.)
> - protection diodes (or your battery will discharge back into
>   the Vicor when off)
>
> > I always *heard* that they functioned best as a standalone 12V.
> > My suspicion (and it is just that) is that there is not enough
> > resistance between the Vicor and a battery to make life easy on
> > the Vicor regulator.
>
> Correct. The standard Vicor modules are *NOT* battery chargers. They are
> precision voltage regulated power supplies. You aren't taking

EV digest 4117

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4117

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV digest 4116
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Honda EV using too many amps?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Battery Pack Advice
by "Richard R. Marcus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Constant rpm
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) No reverse
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: BLDC system versus AC induction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) BLDC vs Induction
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Constant rpm
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV digest 4116- BLDC motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: BLDC vs Induction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) "on light"
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) 12V battery stuff - capacitors
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV Calculator update OT: Conversion Musings
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: BLDC vs Induction OT: Insight turbo
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: reversing DC motor
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 12V System Battery Info
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Battery Pack Advice
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Regenerating a series wound motor
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: BLDC system versus AC induction and hydraulics
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) Running Amps
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: Running Amps
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: Running Amps
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just checked and the Records page seems alive and well.

Also, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by backwards. I'm guessing you mean
that the "A" voltage division should be 24 volts and below and "J" should be
241 volts and above.

With having "A" as being 241 and above we haven't left room for people
running 400 volt plus vehicles since they would be grouped with the 241 +
volts. Is that what you mean?

Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com


- Original Message -
From: "James D Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes


> >This pushes the limits and the sport whenever existing records fall. It
> >makes the person that just lost their record try harder to reclaim it.
> >This is the competitive spirit we wish to capture.
>
>  On that subject, the Records page of the NEDRA website has wandered off
> the Internet.
>
> David Thompson, oh and y'all set up the voltage classes backwards...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am digest mode, but two comments...
Keith-
I think people mean viscous torque (which I assume is eddy current  
losses), not cogging torque when they speak of BLDC losses.

As for BLDC vs induction? (Rod Hower)
http://www.baldor.com/products/servomotors/n_series/perf_graph.asp? 
catalognumber=BSM100N-4250AA

I don't see how a motor at 300VDC on that curve has broader speed&  
torque than AC induction once you field weaken an induction machine, as  
the curve extends well past the BLDC curve knee at 1800 RPM. Field  
weakening BLDC is pretty inefficient and if you lose control of the  
weakening you usually pop the controller from overvoltage.

Power per pound and a hollow rotor are two big advantages I can think  
of. (Victor, etc)

Finally, is there a paper that talks about using the electric motor to  
smooth out the 3 cylinder insight? I can't see Honda doing it AND  
getting the mileage at the same time. I bet they did BLDC for packaging  
and mass, not any electrical reason, as I can't see why you couldn't  
fluctuate the torque in an induction machine fast enough to cancel  
vibration, assuming that is what they really did in the Insight. I  
don't have time tonight (or this week) to see what the sort of  
frequency of vibration you would cancel on a 3 cylinder would be, but I  
bet it is achievable with an induction machine (of which, half the  
anatomy is shared with BLDC). I could be wrong, but I suspect this is  
internet folklore.

Seth Allen

On Feb 22, 2005, at 8:36 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
EV Digest 4116
Topics covered in this issue include:
  1) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Siemens motors
by

EV digest 4118

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

reen and used that.  My Force has no power on light, and I think that 
is an oversight.  I may have to add one.

Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No problem Chip.  Just use 'AA' for 300V+, 'AAA' for 360V+, etc.  Kinda like 
wire sizes...

Darin Gilbert

-- Original message from "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: 
-- 


> I just checked and the Records page seems alive and well. 
> 
> Also, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by backwards. I'm guessing you mean 
> that the "A" voltage division should be 24 volts and below and "J" should be 
> 241 volts and above. 
> 
> With having "A" as being 241 and above we haven't left room for people 
> running 400 volt plus vehicles since they would be grouped with the 241 + 
> volts. Is that what you mean? 
> 
> Chip Gribben 
> NEDRA Webmaster 
> http://www.nedra.com 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "James D Thompson" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:15 PM 
> Subject: Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes 
> 
> 
> > >This pushes the limits and the sport whenever existing records fall. It 
> > >makes the person that just lost their record try harder to reclaim it. 
> > >This is the competitive spirit we wish to capture. 
> > 
> > On that subject, the Records page of the NEDRA website has wandered off 
> > the Internet. 
> > 
> > David Thompson, oh and y'all set up the voltage classes backwards... 
> > 
> --- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike I just tried your car in the EV Calc, and when I set the tire drag to 
.015 (normal tires) It comes out 298 watt hours per mile, range 25.7 miles 
at 60 mph in third gear.  Pretty close to what your getting.  My guess 
would be excess drag in the wheel bearings, brakes, or despite the fact 
that it was checked, still the alignment.  Any chance you have a warped 
brake rotor dragging?  Another thing to check is the accuracy of your tire 
gauge.  I had one that read 40 but when check with another gauge the tire 
was found to actually be at 31 PSI.

Hills can make a huge difference, even modest ones have an impact.
BTW, Solectria specs its alignments at 0 tow in.  I am not sure how well 
that would work on a Civic.  I had mine aligned to factory specs, but I 
asked them to go as near 0 tow as the acceptable range allowed.

I have to admit, I have always thought the EV Calc was a bit 
optimistic.  Has anyone ever tried doing a drag test to validate some of 
the numbers?  Maybe a tow rope and a fish scale to see if the drag is accurate.

My Civic runs about 300 watt hours per mile, but that is up and down hills 
in stop and go traffic.  With its current batteries, serious highway runs 
are not really an option.

Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't see anything in that paper other than a pretty basic 
description of a BLDC motor in a truck. I still say they did it for 
packaging and mass, but that is a guess. NREL has some pretty good 
papers on the Insight and Prius. I can try to look them up when I get 
back from my trip. Never been to JPL before so that should be fun.

Seth
On Feb 23, 2005, at 2:23 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motor will change RPM under load, especially if it is series
wound.  Series wound motors are often used for hydraulic pumps, but if
the load is not continuous it is a good idea to have the motor switch
off or slow down when all the valves are centred, which saves battery
power apart from anything.

Also, do you really need a 20hp rated motor?  Remember that a much
smaller rated motor (perhaps 6hp) can deliver 20hp or more for short
periods, if that's what you need.  You may be able to find a smaller
shunt wound motor that will work out.

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:11:40 -0400, Deuville's Rink
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi guys, Zamboni conversion fellow again, I am having a hard time locating a 
> 20 hp Shunt wound  motor with  2400 rpm. If I use a series wound with a 
> controller what kind of rpm stability will I achieve? The motor will be 
> running hydraulics only( Hydrostatic trans and pump for augars etc) I am 
> nervous that the mot

EV digest 4119

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4119

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: BLDC system versus AC induction and hydraulics
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Honda EV using too many amps?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 12V System Battery Info
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Honda EV using too many amps?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: "on light"
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Honda EV using too many amps?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 12V battery stuff - capacitors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Fuel cell debunking info
by Steve Downing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Fuel cell debunking info
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>  How stout are air
> conditioner clutches like one lister was talking about? Strong enough to
> stand up to the weight of a small pick-up?

Auto AC units draw something like 1 or 2 hp, so I wouldn't bet on the
clutch being able to handle much more than that.

Rouchly speaking, braking a vehicle at a given deceleration rate requires
approximately the same HP as accelerating it at a similar rate.
So if zero-60 in a moderate 30 seconds or so takes (SWAG) 50 hp, then
braking from 60 to zero in 30 seconds also requires 50 hp worth of
friction or regen.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> BTW, Solectria specs its alignments at 0 tow in.  I am not sure how well 
> that would work on a Civic.  I had mine aligned to factory specs, but I 
> asked them to go as near 0 tow as the acceptable range allowed.
> 
Just want to add a litlle warning about toe in. (To some this is pretty obvious 
and you should
just delete it.) 


In the "Old Days", when roads were a little less smooth, alignments were set up 
to compensate for
the road crown as well as the slop in the parts. Where I learned to drive, if 
you took your hand
off the wheel for a second, on any road, you'd end up in the ditch in no time. 
Nowadays I doubt
anyone uses road crown correction, but there is still a need for toe in. As you 
drive down the
road the front wheels are pulled back a little from their resting position. Toe 
in helps
compensate for this by making your car a little pidgeon toed. If you set the 
car up so the front
end has zero toe in on the stand, they will splay outwards as you are driving. 
And the splaying
means scuffing and that's a drag. The manufacturers specs should handle this 
pretty well. Not
perfectly, but pretty well. One of the best indicators of a toe in problem is 
tire wear. Check to
see if you tires are wearing evenly. You should be able to run your hand across 
the top of the
tire, inline with the axis of rotation, and not feel any difference. A sharp 
edge on one side of
the tread blocks indicates a toe in problem. Tires wearing just on the inside 
edge or the outside
edge may also indicate a toe in problem. Tires wearing just on the middle of 
the tread pattern
indicates overinflation. Tires wearing on both the outside and inside edges 
indicate
underinflation. Scallops are from a balance problem.

Don't forget that any change in ride height due to extra weight (lead) will 
affect this also. Too
low or too high a ride height can cause tire wear by throwing off the camber 
adjustment. Make sure
you aren't defeating the purpose of alignment by putting in more drag instead 
of removing it.


Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And AA for futue 800V+?
As most of the stuff labeled backwards, including wire size :-)
Why not simply say 300V+ class? Then there is no need to

EV digest 4120

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4120

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) EVLN(BAS: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS = cheap/mild/fake Hybrids)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) EVLN(Only 1 plea for lower SMUD rates for electric car owners)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) EVLN($revolutionary new all lightweight alloy electric car$)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) EVLN(Taiwan: Ford's electric truck Recall angers customers)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) EVLN(EV Rental Cars offering hybrids)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) EVLN(Dry-cell powered EV)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) EVLN(Toshiba to supply chips for Toyota's hybrid cars)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) EVLN(Portico designed for Hyundai's hybrid drive system)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) EVLN(Orkney island of Westray winds charge EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) EVLN(Hi-speed Eskateboards designed as extreme machines)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) EVLN(Green building = has an EV recharging station)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(BAS: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS = cheap/mild/fake Hybrids)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.earthtoys.com/news.php?section=view&id=625
COULD BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS STEAL HYBRID'S THUNDER?
Visit http://www.abiresearch.com for further information.

The devices allow for start-stop operation similar to hybrids,
where the engine can be shut off at a stoplight or when idling,
but at a price premium of just a few hundred dollars instead of
the thousands required for hybrids.

Oyster Bay, NY - February 15, 2005 - While the popularity of
hybrid-electric vehicles keeps growing, automakers continue their
search for less-expensive alternatives such as belt-alternator
starter (BAS) technology, according to new research from market
intelligence firm, ABI Research.

Australia: , & !

BAS systems are a dream technology for some automakers. The
devices allow for start-stop operation similar to hybrids, where
the engine can be shut off at a stoplight or when idling, but at
a price premium of just a few hundred dollars instead of the
thousands required for hybrids. However, ABI Research cautions
both consumers and financial observers that, "you get what you
pay for."

"While a BAS system is less-expensive than a true hybrid, it
doesn't come close to matching the full functionality of a
hybrid," says ABI Research senior analyst, Dan Benjamin. "A BAS
doesn't provide any sort of assist in actually propelling the
vehicle, and will often have far less capability for regenerative
braking, if any."

For the consumer, this means that any improvement in fuel economy
will be negligible under any driving conditions, with the
exception of extended stop-and-go driving or idling. It also
means that there will be no performance boost, a trait currently
associated with several existing and upcoming hybrids. It should
prove useful only in urban markets.

For suppliers and investors, the trend towards this technology
could be more troubling. Suppliers for components such as
electric motors and high-voltage batteries are increasing
capacity in preparation for rising hybrid vehicle production. Yet
automakers, including General Motors and PSA Peugeot Citroen,
have already announced plans to deploy BAS technology. If BAS
systems take market share from true hybrids, the new capacity
could go unutilized.

ABI Research's new study, "Hybrid Electric Vehicles" examines the
hybrid vehicle's production potential for all major OEMs, as well
as the technological and supply choices that can be made for
platform development. Forecasts are provided through 2012.

Founded in 1990 and headquartered in New York, ABI Research
maintains global operations that support annual research
programs, intelligence services and market reports in wireless,
automotive, semiconductors, broadband, and energy. For more
information please visit www.abiresearch.com, or call
516.624.2500.

© Earthtoys Inc. 2002 - 2005
-





=
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter

' 
~/__|o\__
'@- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
= Undo Petroleum Everywhere



__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Only 1 plea for lower SMUD rates for electric car owners)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/energy/story/12386277p-13242569c.html
SMUD debates 6% hike
The utility wei

EV digest 4121

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4121

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) EVLN(REVA using IQ Infotech Energy Management System)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) EVLN(G-Wiz, Keith Johnston is GoinGreen)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) EVLN(Glitz minus the Guilt, hybrids for high rollers)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) EVLN(Hybrids continue to be scarce commodity)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) EVLN(Research into better batteries has gone flat)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) EVLN(Impossible finding a recharge, batteries die out every 5 miles)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) EVLN(Ellenville Police GEM 'sidles up')
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) EVLN(UQM Air Conditioning motors)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) EVLN(Electric car pull-out angers)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV Calculator
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11) Oops - one more thing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: Running Amps
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Fuel cell debunking info
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: BLDC vs Induction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EVLN(Impossible finding a recharge, batteries die out every 5 miles)
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: "on light"
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(REVA using IQ Infotech Energy Management System)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=13671079 
IQ Infotech receives Rs2cr order 
Monday, 14 February , 2005, 12:39

IQ Infotech Ltd has informed BSE that the company has received an
order aggregating to Rs 2 crore for manufacturing of Energy
Management System to be supplied to REVA Electric Car Co. Pvt.
Ltd (A Govt. benefited company). The Energy Management System
developed for the first time in the country for the electric car
is being exclusively used by the REVA Electric Car Co. Pvt Ltd
over the last three years. REVA is already exporting these cars
to UK & Japan and there is a quantum jump for these exports to
other countries also. The company ecstatic that REVA has picked
the company for this important work assigned the company for such
a valuable order.

Under this contract the company will provide Energy Management
System services to REVA Electric Car Co. Pvt Ltd and also expand
its engineering services to include development and support of
solution applications and utilize and extend REVA's business
offerings.

Further the company has informed that the company is particularly
looking forward to contributing to the focus areas of the
customers, which will enable expansion of the Company's skills in
these areas. Through this the company is hoping healthy financial
growth in the current quarter as well as in the coming years.
-



=
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter

' 
~/__|o\__
'@- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
= Undo Petroleum Everywhere



__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. 
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(G-Wiz, Keith Johnston is GoinGreen)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.greenfutures.org.uk/features/default.asp?id=2072
His other car... Sustainable entrepreneur
Roger Cowe finds out why Keith Johnston is GoinGreen.

?I had done 20 years in advertising agencies. I couldn?t see
 myself doing another 20. I had just turned 40. I suppose it was
 a mid-life crisis.?

Maybe it?s something about the advertising industry. It seems to
spawn eco-entrepreneurs, like Dan Morrell, founder of carbon
offsetters Future Forests, and the trio who founded Innocent
drinks [see GF45 'Profile']. Keith Johnston is one of the latest
? now marketing G-Wiz electric cars as chief executive of
GoinGreen.

?This is the fifth start-up company I have been involved in. I
 think I?ve become increasingly unemployable,? says Johnston,
 whose career includes setting up his own business in Hong Kong
 (eventually sold to a subsidiary of the global giant WPP) and
 floating and exiting the direct marketing company Manifesto,
 which he founded on his return to the UK in 1994.

He hadn?t been a closet green while immersed in the ad industry.
Indeed, he says he ?had been slightly immune

EV digest 4122

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 is called in 
horse racing a "claiming" race. In horse racing, there is a type of race in 
which all of the horses are automatically up for sale at a "claiming 
price", typically $2,000. If you enter, you must be willing to sell your 
horse for $2000.

If you have a REALLY fast horse, it is likely to be worth a lot of 
money. if you were to enter such a horse in a claiming race, you would win, 
but someone is likely to buy it for $2,000.

I would think that it would be very interesting to have some sort 
of claiming race for EVs. Perhaps just the battery pack (and/or some other 
components of the drive system) could be "claimed." Folks would figure out 
a cheap way to make an EV go fast, that is for sure.

Just a thought.
   _ /|Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
  \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
   U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
	Well, I noticed that I have about 11,000 miles on the SAFT 100 MRE flooded 
NiCads. The Emeter says that they have 339 cycles. This is about right 
because my one-way commute is 28 miles and I take the car to lunch every 
day in the middle of the charge.

	They show no signs of wear yet. They have exactly the same voltage and 
capacity as the day I put them in.

	I accidentally crammed 120 a-hrs of overcharge into them once. They did 
not seem to mind. We shall see how much this took off their lifespan.

	I still am having problems with minor leaks in the cooling system. It will 
be fine for a couple of weeks and then it will start to drip somewhere. I 
guess all I can do is fix the leaks as they appear.

	It is very nice to have full capacity in the winter. Running the heater 
without a care makes the car much more pleasant to drive in the winter.

>>> Ecomonics <<<
	I don't know how fair a comparison it is, but if I were driving my van, I 
would have spent about $1500 on gasoline, and $100 on oil changes. Figure 
that the $4,000 engine will last 150k miles, so would have used up $300 of 
it. With the Wabbit, I spent about $100 on electricity, since I charge for 
free at work.

	I figure that the NiCads would have to last 61k miles for me to save money 
over driving my van. Since they are rated at 3,000 cycles at 100% 
discharge, (and I am only cycling them to about 60% on average,) I have a 
very good chance of making 100k miles.

We shall see.

   _ /|Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
  \'o.O'     <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
   U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James, try http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html

Also, where are you getting the http://www.nedra.com/records.html link from?

Is it from a link within the NEDRA site. I'd like to know so I can correct
it since the page should be going to "record_holders.html"

Chip



On 2/23/05 10:18 PM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
 wrote:

> From: James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:55:11 -0500
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
> 
>> I just checked and the Records page seems alive and well.
> 
> It doesn't seem to like me:
> http://www.nedra.com/records.html
> "The requested URL /records.html was not found on this server"
> 
>> Also, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by backwards. I'm guessing you
>> mean that the "A" voltage division should be 24 volts and below and "J"
>> should be 241 volts and above.
> 
> Exactly. A more flexible solution would have been to simply use the
> maximum voltage as a subclass indicator (SC-120, SC-240, etc.), which
> would allow the creation and dissolution of subclasses without leaving
> gaps or having to invent new letters of the alphabet.
> 
> David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Donald Lives not to far form me and is selling his boat , and taking up 
Electric cars as his new hobbie. :-) . He came by and we drove around in my 
EV's and talked about a project he had in mind. I often forward  EVDL post 
to people  I think are intrested but of some reason don't want to  get on 
the list yet . I have no real first hand info on making very fast EV's . 
Donald was asking me about using 2 9"s instead of 2 8" , . He wrote Otmar , 
who took the time to write him some good info which might help others also . 
.


hello otmar. my name is don. i was hopeing you would give
me >a little advice. i read about the white zombie
and would like to build a electric go fast. i recently
bought a 97 s10 pickup and removed entire drivetrain.
aquired a ford rearend 8.8 ring gear 3.73 ratio with drive
shaft.  would like zero to 60 as fast as i could possibly
afford.wi

EV digest 4123

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4123

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: simple fuse indicator
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Multiple Breakers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) 360 Volt limit?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Running Amps
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: simple fuse indicator
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Industrial charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Battery Pack Advice
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: BLDC system versus AC induction and hydraulics
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) 100 mile trip
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: PFC charger capabilities -was- 12V battery stuff - capacitors
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Fuel cell debunking info
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) OT: Spam? (was: RE: Fuel Cell debunking info needed)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) max. wet cell temperatures
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: 100 mile trip
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Industrial charger
by "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Changing from sealed beam to H4
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: 100 mile trip
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
> I am personally looking forward to the day when we can have a
> double A class which would be above 360 volts since that is the
> current limit of DC cars. I don't see DC going much above that.
> It's not that efficient up there. The future of electric drag
> racing is in AC so I could logically assume up to and beyond
> 600 volt machines.

Well now, I wouldn't say that...

Motors (AC or DC) are generally more efficient and easier to build if
the voltage and current are about the same; 12v at 12a; 120v at 120a,
etc. Large motors for buses and trains are rated 600v at 600a. Since
power = volts x amps, this is how they get really large amounts of
horsepower without either the voltage or the current getting
unreasonable.

You find a power source that can deliver 600 volt at 600 amps, and the
motor and controller will be *NO* problem, either AC or DC!

Voltage works as a class indicator because it's easy to measure, and all
the batteries people are using have roughly the same current limit;
around 500-1000 amps. If the current is fixed, then voltage is a good
indicator of relative horsepower.

But as soon as someone finds a good power source that happens to deliver
much higher currents (but lower voltages), or much higher voltage at
lower currents, then voltage will no longer work.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I would think that a fun class might be based on what is called in
> horse racing a "claiming" race. In horse racing, there is a type
> of race in which all of the horses are automatically up for sale
> at a "claiming price", typically $2,000. If you enter, you must be
> willing to sell your horse for $2000.
>
> I would think that it would be very interesting to have some sort
> of claiming race for EVs. Perhaps just the battery pack (and/or
> some other components of the drive system) could be "claimed."
> Folks would figure out a cheap way to make an EV go fast, that
> is for sure.

Yes, it could work well to keep down the price of racing... until some
joker comes along that can afford to just "buy" every race. Build a
throwaway one-use car for $4000, win the race, and sell it for $2000.
Even the guy that buys it would have trouble beating him, because it's
shot. For instance, it uses primary batteries, or the motor is destroyed
from arcing or overheating after one race.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> On some old machines, a

EV digest 4124

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

e information on these Siemens motors.

The ranger version by Ballard is a complete package with an 
an integrated single ratio gear reduction as well as a 
differential. I think the gear reduction is about 10:1. The
motor has a hollow armature shaft, and the gear reduction
and differential attached to one side incl. a park lock.
The picture on the motors for sale shows the flange for this
gearbox. (Motor RPM is up to 14000RPM)
Through the hollow motor shaft the drive shaft at the opposite
end of the motor is connected to the differential and gear
reduction output. 

Question is, can these parts be gotten from ballard? I'd guess
not. Ballard also makes a matching inverter. The new version
of this drive system is labeled A 312V67 MS. 67 kw peak, 32kw
continuous. 190 Nm peak torque. 260 - 385 V. CAN Capable.

I have some measurements if somebody is interested in the
packaging.

Markus

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus L
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:05 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Siemens motors
> 
> 
> Lawrence,
> 
> IMO these motors are great. We have a complete ranger drive in our
> shop right now which we are putting into a dodge neon. 
> 
> However, the motors offered by Electro Mavin are only the bare
> motors. The ranger drive has a differential (and I think a 
> gear reduction) added to it that also has a "park" position. 
> The half-shafts are then coupled directly to this motor/differential
> combination. The motor for sale is missing all this.
> 
> Also they do not sell matching inverters and I think the inverter
> is actually the expensive part in such a system. On the EV trading
> post I saw an AC traction controller for sale in about the right
> power range. Maybe somebody could combine the two and adapt them to 
> each other. For me this would be too much of a task and risk, I 
> would rather pay more and get a warranted and working solution from
> MetricMind.
> 
> Markus
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:14 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Siemens motors
> > 
> > 
> > Electro Mavin co. has the following Siemens AC Induction 
> > Electric Vehicle 
> > motors FOR SALE...
> > 
> > AC ELECTRIC MOTORS made by SIEMENS as used in the FORD 
> > ELECTRIC RANGERS
> > 
> > We do not have any Inverters or Controllers or 
> > Batteries.just the above 
> > mentioned motors only
> > 
> > This is the situation with these Ranger motors.  Does anyone 
> > know if there 
> > are off the shelf solutions for these?  Is an adapter needed 
> > or will it bolt 
> > right into a Ranger or a gear reduction   Lawrence Rhodes...
> > 
> > 
> > Lawrence Rhodes
> > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > Reedmaker
> > Book 4/5 doubler
> > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 415-821-3519 
> > 
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My schedule has been a bit busy lately. I am winding down my 
selling rebuilt PCs the money going to the EV charging 
infrastructure installations.

I will be trading that time for the on-line classes I will be 
starting in April. It may take me a while to earn a BSCS degree 
because I won't be taking a full load while I am working. 

But I have made time for other things too. One of those was the
POST to the EVDL about a person in Atherton who needed help with
her EV.

An EAA member came over last Saturday to go with me. We used my
EV to get there, because his ICE died (OK all EV drivers may
chuckle now). After we grabbed lunch, the EV was only a few
miles away from my home.

We met the owner in their driveway next to a Ford Th!nk nEV 
which looked like it had been sitting for months (dirt, leaves,
etc.).
 
She (the owner) said the nEV won't not start even after 
charging it for several days. And that is why it had been 
sitting in the driveway for over six months (looked like a 
year).

I had done my homework the night before, reading all the
pertinent entries on the Th!nk forum. They had mentioned three
different revisions of motor-controller assemblies. Also, that
the charger may hum, but that the sound is no indication that 
the pack is actually getting current.

We first worked to get at the batteries. Our fear was that the
72V pack was six old dried out group 27 deep-cycle wet-cell
batteries, and all that sitting around not charged had sulfated
them to death.

Different than the GEM nEV, the Think Neighbor nEV placed its
battery pack directly under the front driver-passen

EV digest 4125

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4125

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: March NBEAA meeting announcement
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: simple fuse indicator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Multiple Breakers
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Light Weight Spool
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: max. wet cell temperatures (and OT Honda ICE batt. 
  regulators)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) 100A Motor Controllers
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) EV and snow.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: your EV battery selection
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) RE: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: your EV battery selection
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Brakes on 300zx
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Tour de Sol Registration
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Tour de Sol Early Reg deadline
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: More calculator stuff
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) EBEAA Meeting this Saturday 2/26/04 10-12 in Alameda, CA
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Direct drive - how to do it right
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Even though a lot of this list is from California, I'm not sure that you all 
are aware of the letter that California recently wrote to Bush. I copied it to 
my web site, www.ironandwood.org/Ca_succession.htm 

Rush
- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" 
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:19 PM
Subject: March NBEAA meeting announcement


>  March NBEAA Meeting Announcement
> 
>1 - ~3pm, Sunday, 13th March, 2005
> 
> Fred Cork has invited NBEAA to be a part of his Oil on Ice house
> party on Sunday March 13.  See http://nbeaa.org/cork.html for
> details.
> 
> NBEAA has also been asked to participate again in the Earth Day
> Celebration
> at the Calpine Geothermal Visitor Center in Middletown this year.
> It will be on April 24th.  The pages http://nbeaa.org and
> http://nbeaa.org/futuremeetings.htm#FutureEVents will have the
> details.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005
> 
>


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This may be a nice addition and doesn't consume power unless there is a
> problem Not that 42 LED's is that much, < 10W

Yeah, I think if you blow 42 fuses all at once, you've got bigger things
to worry about than loosing 10W of power.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not just use linked breakers, i.e. when one goes off they both go off.

If you pop a breaker, chances are you want to investigate it RIGHT NOW
anyway.  With two separate breakers, it's possible to have one pop and you
keep driving on the other half of the pack.

> If, with two parallel strings of batteries, you want the ability to turn
> off
> either one separately, or both together via a second breaker that also
> functions as an emergency shutoff, would the following setup work?
>
> +-+ +--+ +--+
> | Bat. Str. A |O===O| 250A Breaker |O===O| 400A Breaker |O==> 1231C
> +-+ +--+|+--+
> |
> +-+ +--+|
> | Bat. Str. B |O===O| 250A Breaker |O===+
> +-+ +--+
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't driven a car with a spool but I can guess, push,push,push. (RWD)
It will want to go straight. I set up a limit slip that took 125lb of 
break away torque on my autocross truck and it pushed like a pig, just 

EV digest 4126

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

OT-compliance facility
just a few miles from my house.  Unlike cars, importing motorcycles from
abroad is a relatively simple and inexpensive affair since motorcycles don't
have to be crash tested like cars do.  As I understand it, the only thing
that motorcycle importation requires is just changing out the lights and
speedometer to comply with DOT regulations; that's what the DOT-licensed
motorcycle import shop near my house does.)  The company official I spoke
with at Vectrix told me that I was certainly welcome to do that if I wanted
and they would help me in that regard but that it may not be necessary
because they are now planning to allocate a limited amount of their 2006
production to the North American market, depending on how many people sign
up on their North American consumer order reservation form at:
http://www.vectrixusa.com/company/consumer.html

So that leaves me hopeful that I will be able to get a bike next year
(without having to go to the trouble of importing one from Europe) and not
have to wait until 2007 or 2008.

However, lest anyone think that I am just sitting around waiting for EV
companies to follow through on their production promises, such is not the
case, as I am also doing a conversion with Steve Clunn.  But I am definitely
quite keen on that Vectrix scooter from the test ride that I took last year.

Best regards,

Charles Whalen


- Original Message - 
From: "Nick Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 7:12 PM
Subject: Impromptu NBEAA meeting on Saturday

There will be an impromptu get-together
this Saturday (Feb 26th) at Thunderstruck Motors
in Santa Rosa for test drives of two Vectrix
e-motorbikes with Jim Plagenhoef, Director of Sales
for North America, Vectrix Corporation.

This meeeting is quite a coup for NBEAA and
something I've been working on for some time, so
please come along and give Jim feedback on this
exciting new form of electric transportation.

More info at:
http://www.vectrixusa.com

Start time: 10am.

Location:
Thunderstruck Motors
3200 Dutton Avenue #220
Santa Rosa, CA 95407
(707)575-0353 Tel/Fax
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com
Avcon, 220V and 110V charging available.

and here's a map:
http://tinyurl.com/4fcgk

Look forward to seeing you there,
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Woo-hoo!  TS batteries arrived today.  Building battery boxes tomorrow!

Bill Dennis

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matthew D. Graham
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:31 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Battery Box Advice Sought

Bill,

That sounds exactly like where I was just a few months ago. I debated this
issue for the four battery boxes in the Nissan 240SX conversion I'm working
on for holding 25 Orbitals. I found that after exhaustively working on all
the design details of sheet metal boxes and incorporating features for all
the strength-adding ribbed supports, I didn't have the tools and technical
expertise to do it myself, and for the life of me, couldn't get anyone to
quote the job for me.

So, I ended up going with the angle iron approach. Easy to weld, but hard to
look at. Of course my preference (and I assume yours) would be to have
beautiful, perfectly incorporated sheet metal boxes. In the end, my decision
was really based on what I could get done in the interest of getting the car
on the road sooner rather than later. I've always planned on improving on
this aspect in the future by ripping out the angle iron and installing
professional sheet metal boxes. Of course, after a visit with John Wayland
in Bend a couple weeks back (story to follow later) I've been absolutely
shamed into moving that higher up in my list of priorities.

That said, I expected to use 18GA steel for my boxes when I considered doing
it myself. (Later, I was leaning towards aluminum, done professionally) With
Dutch bends and ribs for support, it should be pretty sturdy. Of course,
thicker gauge might be necessary for other reasons--namely your welding
equipment and skills. I've had difficulty MIG welding 20 GA, and sometimes
18, even when using Argon. Then again, my welding experience is very
limited.

Let us know what you decide!

Matt Graham
300V Nissan 240SX (STILL in progress!)   

-Original Message-
From: Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Battery Box Advice Sought


I'm getting ready to build my rear battery box and have made a mockup.  I
could make the box out of angle iron, or sheet metal (not aluminum; I don't
have TIG welder).  If I use sheet metal, I'd like some advice on how thick
(gauge) it needs to be to safely support

EV digest 4127

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4127

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Direct drive - how to do it right
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Light Weight Spool
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Regenerating a series wound motor
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 100 mile trip
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Direct drive - how to do it right
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Industrial charger
by "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) EVLN(EV1 Vigil, "They're that good")-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) EVLN(Remy drives an ICE, "I can't afford an electric vehicle")
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) EVLN(Rented a Volkswagen bug looking EV & toured the island)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) EVLN(The beauty of bendable batteries)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) EVLN(ISE's ThunderVolt Hybrid Uses Maxwell Ucaps)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have to agree, when joining aluminum welding is not
always the best connection. unlike steel where the
weld is stronger than the base material, aluminum is
not. A lot of care should be used in designing the
joints. If you have a failure with a weld the whole
thing will need to be removed to be rewelded. With a
rivet it just means drilling out the old one and maybe
placing another next to it. Before the advent of
welding, joints where designed by calculating the
strength you needed and dividing by the strength of
each rivet to give the total needed. 

   Gadget


--- Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bill just caught one comment from Matts post so this
> is sort of directed to
> him.
> (don't have his post on this machine to reply to).
> 
> Regarding the use of aluminium for building boxes
> you might want to look at
> just using a good pull rivet like a Avex 1400 or
> 1600 series and about a
> 1.125
> rivet spacing inplace of welding. As long as you use
> the right spacing and a
> good pull rivet the joints are as strong as the
> parent sheet metal. Then all
> you
> might need for tool is a drill, a #30 or a 1/8"
> drill bit and any cheapy pop
> rivet
> tool. Would also be much faster than welding.
> 
> Dave


=
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 
> If I do go with direct-drive, the money I don't
> spend on a
> transmission/clutch/adapter plate/etc will be spent
> on getting a decent
> rear end and driveshaft; most likely a Ford 9"
> setup. I have a great deal
> of flexibility with ratio choices with this rear
> end, though clearly I
> can't change while I'm driving.  :o)


Two speed rearend perhaps?

  Gadget

=
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't believe spools are legal for street use
because of their unpredictable street manners in
different road conditions,
 
Gadget

=
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
...  unlike steel where the
weld is stronger than the base material, aluminum is
not.
And, why is this (welder's skill aside)?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've considered multi-speed differentials before, but I don't know much
about them.  I'd assumed that the only ones available would be from very
large vehicles (I think my dad's Freightliner had a 2-speed air-shifted
diff).

Is there such a thing that would fit on a compact pickup?   I guess it'd
be kinda funny looking (but perhaps in a cool, neato sort of way) to have
a diff that's almost as big around as the wheels.

  --chris




Reverend Gadget said:
>>
>> If I do go with direct-drive, the money I don't
>> spend on a
>> transmission/clutch/adapter plate/etc will be spent
>> on getting a decent
>> rear end and driveshaft; most likely a Ford 9"
>> setup. I have a great deal
>> of flexibility with ratio choices with this rear
>> end, though clearly I
>> can't chan

EV digest 4128

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4128

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) EVLN(UK Scarlet Placard EVs recharge from a CO2 generating grid)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) EVLN("Have you bought an electric car? A hybrid?")-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) It's "Best-Laid-Plans" Time
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: 100 mile trip
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) OT: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: 100 mile trip
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Fuel Cell debunking info needed
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: It's "Best-Laid-Plans" Time
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) alt fuels car article
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: OT: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: 100 mile trip
by "a.k. howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: alt fuels car article
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: OT: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: your EV battery selection
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(UK Scarlet Placard EVs recharge from a CO2 generating grid)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.techcentralstation.com/022405.html
The Scarlet Placard  By Sallie Baliunas  Published 02/24/2005

As the Kyoto Treaty to limit carbon dioxide emission takes hold,
boldly-forwarded new schemes concocted to reduce energy use seem
as silly as they are pointless.

The U. K.'s Department for Transport is rating the amount of
carbon dioxide emitted from vehicles. Large utility vehicles, by
virtue of their size and hauling capacity, would display in
dealer showrooms a failing grade of F on a bright red sticker
because those vehicles would emit more carbon dioxide than
smaller, more fuel efficient cars, which would sport green shaded
labels. The Observer  clucks about the social "ignominy" of
choosing a large, red-carded vehicle.

Should your disability require a large car for mobility, in the
U.K. you would bear the shame of purchasing a vehicle emblazoned
with a scarlet placard. Should you rescue and re-home dogs with a
large vehicle, your charitable kindness would be marred by the
"ignominy" of a scarlet placard. Independent sales associates may
find it hard to put their equipment or landscapers their
gardening implements in a small Honda Insight. Able to afford
only one vehicle, a poor, working single parent may have to
select an SUV for hauling customer products to find income and
carrying children at other times. With only a small car, a
working parent's necessary activities might require multiple
trips, thus defeating reductions in fuel use or carbon dioxide
emitted per mile, with the added burden of increased time cost
and lost revenue.

Depending on its use, a smaller vehicle might not always be the
most environmentally sensible option. It does, however, build a
visible social façade of seeming environmental sensitivity.
[...]
Like Puritanism's culture, the Kyoto Treaty's appeal is toward
enforcing a static environment -- a characterization of climate
that represents a physical impossibility. Moreover, the treaty's
emission cuts are so small that the air's concentration of carbon
dioxide is expected to increase over the next several decades as
people use energy to rise from poverty. The cuts are predicted to
retard the global warming trend at 2050 by an insensible amount
-- less than one-tenth degree Celsius -- compared to natural
fluctuations in temperature.

Environmental sense seems long vanished. Apparently without
recognizing its high irony, the Department of Transport's scarlet
placard program awards its greenest stickers to electric
vehicles, which emit virtually no carbon dioxide in use. Yet
recharging an electric vehicle requires buying power from local
utilities supplied through the grid. In the U. K. approximately
70 percent of electricity is produced by natural gas and coal,
both of which

EV digest 4129

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 the only ones
> >> available would be from very
> >> large vehicles (I think my dad's Freightliner had a
> >> 2-speed air-shifted
> >> diff).
> >>
> >> Is there such a thing that would fit on a compact
> >> pickup?   I guess it'd
> >> be kinda funny looking (but perhaps in a cool, neato
> >> sort of way) to have
> >> a diff that's almost as big around as the wheels.
> >>
> >>   --chris
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Reverend Gadget said:
> >> >>
> >> >> If I do go with direct-drive, the money I don't
> >> >> spend on a
> >> >> transmission/clutch/adapter plate/etc will be
> >> spent
> >> >> on getting a decent
> >> >> rear end and driveshaft; most likely a Ford 9"
> >> >> setup. I have a great deal
> >> >> of flexibility with ratio choices with this rear
> >> >> end, though clearly I
> >> >> can't change while I'm driving.  :o)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Two speed rearend perhaps?
> >> >
> >> >   Gadget
> >> >
> >> > =
> >> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > =
> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 would probably work OK for older cars and battery boxes, but late model
vehicles use HSLA (high strength low alloy) steels that do not handle
brazing well. DC.
- Original Message - 
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: Battery Box Advice Sought


> Why doesn't anyone braze their battery boxes, or braze them into the
> car?
>
> --- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Woo-hoo!  TS batteries arrived today.  Building battery boxes
> > tomorrow!
> >
> > Bill Dennis
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Matthew D. Graham
> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:31 PM
> > To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> > Subject: RE: Battery Box Advice Sought
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > That sounds exactly like where I was just a few months ago. I
> > debated this
> > issue for the four battery boxes in the Nissan 240SX conversion I'm
> > working
> > on for holding 25 Orbitals. I found that after exhaustively working
> > on all
> > the design details of sheet metal boxes and incorporating features
> > for all
> > the strength-adding ribbed supports, I didn't have the tools and
> > technical
> > expertise to do it myself, and for the life of me, couldn't get
> > anyone to
> > quote the job for me.
> >
> > So, I ended up going with the angle iron approach. Easy to weld,
> > but hard to
> > look at. Of course my preference (and I assume yours) would be to
> > have
> > beautiful, perfectly incorporated sheet metal boxes. In the end, my
> > decision
> > was really based on what I could get done in the interest of
> > getting the car
> > on the road sooner rather than later. I've always planned on
> > improving on
> > this aspect in the future by ripping out the angle iron and
> > installing
> > professional sheet metal boxes. Of course, after a visit with John
> > Wayland
> > in Bend a couple weeks back (story to follow later) I've been
> > absolutely
> > shamed into moving that higher up in my list of priorities.
> >
> > That said, I expected to use 18GA steel for my boxes when I
> > considered doing
> > it myself. (Later, I was leaning towards aluminum, done
> > professionally) With
> > Dutch bends and ribs for support, it should be pretty sturdy. Of
> > course,
> > thicker gauge might be necessary for other reasons--namely your
> > welding
> > equipment and skills. I've had difficulty MIG welding 20 GA, and
> > sometimes
> > 18, even when using Argon. Then again, my welding experience is
> > very
> > limited.
> >
> > Let us know what you decide!
> >
> > Matt Graham
> > 300V Nissan 240SX (STILL in progress!)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:48 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: 

EV digest 4130

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4130

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: DIY Solder Pot
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Welding Aluminum
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 100 mile trip
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: DIY Solder pot
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: DIY Solder pot
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV Calculator update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: Battery Exchange
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Regenerating a series wound motor
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Scooter Wars
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) More Rod Wilde Stuff
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 19) GVMR weights
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 20) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> 
> Now I want to tin the ends of the cables I made,  my 74W soldering iron is
> too light, but the torch is too much and causes the ends to tarnish and
> oxidize.  I have read about DIY solder pots.
> 
> My idea is to get a 4" diameter pipe 2" long, weld it to a 1/2" slab of
> steel and put it on a portable hotplate.  Then I can get bar solder (50/50?)
> from the plumbing shop. Will this work?
> 
> Any tips on how to properly tin the ends?  Flux etc.

Danger! Many metals will *disolve* in molten solder! Don't just pick any
old steel and assume it will hold molten solder for a long time! You
don't want to even *think* about the disaster of spilling a pot of
molten metal!

Why not just buy a new/used solder pot? I bought one from Dexis
(www.dexis.com) for about $100.
-- 
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great - thanks Lee will do. 


Victoria, BC, Canada
 
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: February 26, 2005 1:05 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe

Don Cameron wrote:
> 
> Here is what I have come up with:
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
> 
> Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally 
> anyways) with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable 
> with crimped copper pipe on either end.  The braid goes through the 
> entire pipe, so when they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure 
> a good solid connection, but still allow flex.

Don, since you are making your own interconnects from unusual materials, and
haven't done any resistance calculations, you need to *measure* the actual
resistance of your interconnects. It doesn't matter how cheap they were, or
how easy to make, or how nice they look. What matters is their performance!

Connect a couple batteries in series with one. Connect a charger or load to
charge or discharge the two batteries in series at some known current.
Measure the voltage drop from battery post-to-post. Calculate the resistance
with Ohm's law; Ohms = Volts / Amps.

If you expect to draw 100s of amps, the resistance had better be less than
0.01 ohm. At 100 amps, a 0.01 ohm connection produces P = I^2 x R =
100^2 x 0.01 = 100 watts of heat! If you expect to hit 1000 amps, your
connection resistance had better be under 0.0001 ohms!

For reference, a "normal" inter-battery jumper made with 6" of #00 cable and
copper terminals crimped on each end, connected to automotive type battery
posts will have a resistance around 0.002 ohms. 
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another reaso

EV digest 4131

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4131

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Battery Exchange (The beauty of bendable batteries)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Minitrucks
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Minitrucks
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: OT: Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: GVMR weights
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Minitrucks
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Direct drive - how to do it right
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Motor constants
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15) Fast and Fun!
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: OT: Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) REvisited: More bumper sticker thoughts
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,

I used a small piece of 2/0 with crimped eyelet ends (each double crimped
with proper hex crimper).   I ran three tests, the average being 80 Amp with
a 5.0mV drop, thus a resistance of 0.00063 ohms.  

However, there are two major differences:

1) this short cable is 5" from centre to centre, and the straps are 2.25"
centre to centre. 
2) The lug holes on this short cable are 5/16" and **not** the proper 1/4".

Don




Victoria, BC, Canada
 
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: February 26, 2005 7:06 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe

>Don Cameron wrote:
> I tested 2 types of straps (tinned and just crimped) as well as the  
>flattened copper pipe, I ran each test 3 times. Two batteries were 
>wired in  series using the strap/bar to be tested, with a 80Amp load.  
>The current was  measured from a 500A shunt.  The voltage drop was 
>measured at the posts  where the strap/bar was connected.


Just for additional comparison, I wish I had a short length of 2/0 or 4/0
with the ends crimped on that I could send to you to run that same test on
to see how it fairs to the 3 types you tested.  I'd really like to know the
results.

Anyone have a spare interconnect you could send him if he would like to do
it for comparison reasons?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Looking for some ideas on how to Maximize efficiency when using
> a 3-phase PM alternator to charge batteries. 30V nominal battery
> voltage.
> 
> Simplest way would probably be to use a 6-way bridge. I know I'll
> lose about 2% in the diodes

Lots more than that! The diodes have about a 1v drop at rated current,
and there are two in series. 2v/30v = 7% lost to the diodes.

At 30v, you can easily cut this in half with schottky diodes (3.5%). You
could cut this loss in half again with synchronous rectification
(complicated) or germanium diodes (hard to find).

> how much will I lose do to power factor issues?

That's harder to estimate. With a simple 3-phase rectifier bridge, the
alternator coils see about a 0.7 power factor. Improving this to 1.0
basically reduces the winding current to 70% for the same power output.
You'd have to know the winding resistance to estimate what your I^2R
losses are now, and what 70% less current would reduce them to. Then,
add the losses of whatever circuit you use for power factor correction.

> Is it worth the extra cost to go with something like synchronous
> rectification with power factor control?  Is this the "Best" option
> efficiency wise?

The best option, efficiency-wise at 30v, is probably a brushed PM
generator. For instance, a Lynch/Lemco/Etek type motor used as a
generator, with high silver content brushes and brush timing properly
set for gener

EV digest 4132

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 4132

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: OT: Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Minitrucks
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  5) Hygrometers, eq'ing, water cons., and 8 mo. floodies, revisited
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Minitrucks
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) Re: Hygrometers, eq'ing, water cons., and 8 mo. floodies,
  revisited
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Hygrometers, eq'ing, water cons., and 8 mo. floodies,  revisited
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Minitrucks
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Low cost 45 mph  electric vehicle.  VW motor/adapter kit.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) 1500 dollar complete VW conversion.  
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: It's "Best-Laid-Plans" Time
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: 1500 dollar complete VW conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) Porsche 911 speed vs. hp
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Fwd: RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Fwd: RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) charger 
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) GTech Performance meter on an EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 28) RE: Welding Aluminum
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) RE: charger 
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Tinned, Crimped then Tinned:
1) cut 1" (25mm) 1/2" (12mm) pipe.
2) tin the pipe by dipping in solder pot
3) insert the braid all the way through the pipe and crimp in vise
4) drill hole, clean up
5) dip the end again in solder pot

This produces straps which are completely tinned, but the second tinning
causes the strap to become stiff (and somewhat brittle)


Tinned, Crimped:
1) cut 1" (25mm) 1/2" (12mm) pipe.
2) tin the pipe by dipping in solder pot
3) insert the braid all the way through the pipe and crimp in vise
4) drill hole, clean up
(no dipping again in solder pot)

This produces a strap which is flexible, but has some visible copper in the
hole and at the end of the strap.


The problem with just tinning the braid, with no copper ends, is that the
heat of the solder pot will cause most of the braid to 
become stiff, thus losing its flexibility.

Don






Victoria, BC, Canada
 
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Borges
Sent: February 27, 2005 2:52 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe

> Don Cameron wrote:
> >
> > Here is what I have come up with:
> > http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG

what 's difference between braided tinned and braided crimped please ?
i don't see it looking at your pictures.
Is first braided crimped tinned and second strap braided crimped no tinned ?

if i understand right there is another solution to test: braided strap just
tinned (no copper) then drilled seems to me simpler construction but
probably less effective solution (contact area are not perfectly flat)

Philippe

Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
 http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php


- Original Message -
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:11 AM
Subject: RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe


> I tested 2 types of s

EV digest 4133

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

t; On Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: February 26, 2005 7:22 PM
> To: EVList
> Subject: RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
> 
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>Here is what I have come up with:
>>http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
>>
>>Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally
>>anyways) with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable 
>>with crimped copper pipe on either end.  The braid goes through the 
>>entire pipe, so when they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure 
>>a good solid connection, but still allow flex.
> 
> 
> Will there be any corrosion issues using this method with NiCad batteries?
> Is there an easy way to coat/tin/protect the ends to prevent corrosion?
> 
> Also, do NiCads have issues with corroding the battery enclosure like 
> lead acids do from venting?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are Selenium rectifiers any good for this type of thing? I think that is 
what I have, lots of flat plates in a stack with spacers between and lugs 
off the ends? A number of them the size of your fist, I even have one that 
is like 2 feet long X 10" X 10" square. Been trying to find a use for them.

David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
- Original Message - 
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator


Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Looking for some ideas on how to Maximize efficiency when using
a 3-phase PM alternator to charge batteries. 30V nominal battery
voltage.
Simplest way would probably be to use a 6-way bridge. I know I'll
lose about 2% in the diodes
Lots more than that! The diodes have about a 1v drop at rated current,
and there are two in series. 2v/30v = 7% lost to the diodes.
At 30v, you can easily cut this in half with schottky diodes (3.5%). You
could cut this loss in half again with synchronous rectification
(complicated) or germanium diodes (hard to find).
Should have mentined that I was planning on using Schottky's, I forgot
about having two in series though.

how much will I lose do to power factor issues?
That's harder to estimate. With a simple 3-phase rectifier bridge, the
alternator coils see about a 0.7 power factor. Improving this to 1.0
basically reduces the winding current to 70% for the same power output.
You'd have to know the winding resistance to estimate what your I^2R
losses are now, and what 70% less current would reduce them to. Then,
add the losses of whatever circuit you use for power factor correction.
Ok so PFC will only get me another 1 or 2%.
Can I use the same FETs for synch rectification and PFC?
FWIW I was thinking about using one of the Ecycle motors as a generator
(roughly 95% efficient) so if I did and went with a 6 way schottky
rectifier I'd be down to about 91%, about the same as a similar sized Etek
and I believe slightly cheaper.
Ecycle's CMG series alreay has sychronous rectification built in.  Though
I don't think it's controllable.
If I can get a a controller that offers synch rect, PFC, and is
controllable for output power (or what I want: input load, same thing), it
might have a slight edge on a Lynch/Etek with similar controller, plus no
worries about brushes, and it's a (more or less) sealed unit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the VW conversion kit is interesting.  But, it would perform very
poorly.
The motor is too small to drive a VW even with the drive reduction
provided by the belt drive.  The motor looks suspiciously like an
old Ford automobile starter.  These starters were often used for
driving a variety of things because they had a long straight shaft
that could be fitted with a pulley, sprocket, etc..  They had small
brushes and commutators and sleeve
bearings  suitable for intermittent use like a starter but not for
continuous duty.  The claims for horsepower, 15 continous and 40
intermittent are outrageous.  At 36 volts, 15 hp requires at least 400
amps and 40 hp requires at least 1100.  The little motor simply
couldn't handle such high currents.
To make a serious EV would require a motor like the ADC 8-inch
and at least a 96-volt battery pack.  With a better motor the belt
drive could be dispensed with and the motor coupled directly
to the transmission input shaft.
Of more interest to me on tne web site are the hub motors.
- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 2:35 AM
Subject: 1500 dollar complete VW conversion.


These guys have some interesting concepts & a very inexpensive VW 
conversion. A lig

EV digest 4134

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

is site:
http://www.robgray.com/motorhomes/diary/diary_23/diary.htm
(Read this page and the following 2-3 pages.)

Tim

-
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:30:18 -0800 (PST)
> From: Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Welding Aluminum
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> 
> If you can get a good contact area, 3M makes
> structural tape. This stuff is especially good when
> connecting aluminum to steel as it will isolate the
> two materials. This stuff is amazing. It is used to
> apply the body panels on some of the newer buses and I
> saw some holding the panels on the Getty Center.
> 
>Gadget


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm Tom.  15 Horsepower continuous(40hp peak) ,5&1/4" dia. x 12&1/2" long 
series-wound Motor made by AC-Delco,.  Lots of  heat disipating power I 
would think.  I have reports of it going 35mph.  They say 45mph.  The 
Adapter is available seperately.  I think it would be possible to (by using 
the adapter as a template make a two motor version.  It's interesting 
because the motors would tuck up over the axles allowing room for lots of 
batteries in the back.I'd think this would make a better EV than an NEV.
- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: 1500 dollar complete VW conversion.


Yes, the VW conversion kit is interesting.  But, it would perform very
poorly.
The motor is too small to drive a VW even with the drive reduction
provided by the belt drive.  The motor looks suspiciously like an
old Ford automobile starter.  These starters were often used for
driving a variety of things because they had a long straight shaft
that could be fitted with a pulley, sprocket, etc..  They had small
brushes and commutators and sleeve
bearings  suitable for intermittent use like a starter but not for
continuous duty.  The claims for horsepower, 15 continous and 40
intermittent are outrageous.  At 36 volts, 15 hp requires at least 400
amps and 40 hp requires at least 1100.  The little motor simply
couldn't handle such high currents.
To make a serious EV would require a motor like the ADC 8-inch
and at least a 96-volt battery pack.  With a better motor the belt
drive could be dispensed with and the motor coupled directly
to the transmission input shaft.
Of more interest to me on tne web site are the hub motors.
- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 2:35 AM
Subject: 1500 dollar complete VW conversion.


These guys have some interesting concepts & a very inexpensive VW 
conversion. A light kit body and a sub 2000 pound weight would be very 
interesting.  Looks like this kit could be completed in a weekend. 
Anybody done one?

http://www.e-volks.com/index.html
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to talk about what a serious EV is.  Isn't a serious vehicle is one 
that meets your needs?  96v and 60 mph might be your need.  Some could get 
by with 25mph.  NEV sales are hot now.  This vehicle is certainly faster 
than an NEV.  Lawrence Rhodes.
- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: 1500 dollar complete VW conversion.


Tom Shay wrote:
Yes, the VW conversion kit is interesting. But, it would perform
very poorly.
Yes; they do talk about a 35 mph top speed, m0-mile range with 3 12v
batteries, or 20 miles with 6 golf cart batteries. These sound
relatively honest -- not the usual wild exaggerations we sometimes see.
The motor is too small to drive a VW even with the drive reduction
provided by the belt drive.  The motor looks suspiciously like an
old Ford automobile starter.
The motor is small by EV standards, but too big to be a Ford starter.
I'd guess it is about 5" diameter and 14" long, so a bit bigger than a
golf cart motor.
The claims for horsepower, 15 continous and 40 intermittent are
outrageous.  At 36 volts, 15 hp requires at least 400 amps and
40 hp requires at least 1100.  The little motor simply couldn't
handle such high currents.
To be fair, "continuous" in a vehicle that goes 30 mph with a 10 mile
range is only 20 minutes. I could believe that this size motor could run
that long if it has a cooling blower (although none is shown).
To make a serious EV would require a motor like the ADC 8-inch
and at least a 96-volt battery pack.
Yes, for a normal-weight car and normal highway speeds. But I got t