[OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi, My name is Marc Gemis. I'm new to OpenStreetMap. Since I'm using OpenFietsMap on my Garmin device and I hope to give something back. I saw that in my area (Reet (Rumst)) a number of Buurtwegen (BW) en Voetwegen (VW) are not on the map. I could also add a number of paths in the Park van Boom and Rumst, as well as tsome of the knooppunten of Rivierenland. At the moment I'm reading through the documentation to get an idea what is involved. Although I'm a bit reluctant to actually start modifying the map, I hope to add some data soon. regards m. p.s. my mothertongue is Dutch and my mapper name is 'escada' (after one of our dogs). ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi Jo, The signs of the buurtwegen en the voetwegen always have the abbreviated name BW23 or VW51, followed by the name of the residential road to which the are leading (and thus different on both sides). I'll look into aligning the BW23 with the aerial photo regards m On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Marc, In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by selecting: Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat in the menu. Then you can align your ways on those as well. As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use abbreviations in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually found on the name tag) Polyglot 2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-) Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23 Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi all, Now, I really understand why I was hesitating to start adding roads. ;-) Anyhow, I'll change it to 'track'. Here's the sign that you can find at the ends of Voetwegen and Burrtwegen in Rumst (incl. Terhaghe, Reet) and Boom http://xian.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Reet/i-6r5rqGd/0/S/dsc_5065-S.jpg This is why I called it BW23. After they started placing those signs a couple of years ago, it took me awhile before I knew what BW and VW meant. It is still unclear to me which name I should use. I'm in favor of BW23, since that is on the sign. Now for the surface. Do I have to split the road each time the surface changes ? First it is asphalt (the part that was already in OSM before I started), then it turns into this http://xian.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Reet/i-K27fcBJ/0/M/dsc_5067-S.jpg a combination of sand and stones, mostly sand. A bit further more sand and less stones (this part becomes muddy when it rains) http://xian.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Reet/i-tk4DBqt/0/S/dsc_5068-S.jpg After the turn it is more grass and less sand http://xian.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Reet/i-tk4DBqt/0/S/dsc_5068-S.jpg A bit further it is again a clearly track, grass in the middle sand + little stones (kiezel) on the sides (no picture) So what do I do for that ? I know unpaved was the simple solution ;-) Another path looks like this: http://xian.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Reet/i-tk4DBqt/0/S/dsc_5068-S.jpg It is possible to drive there (house owner does this), so it is a track. What do I do with the little pole at the end ? It prevents cars from passing, but cyclist can. A totally unrelated question: The N171 is not finished yet, far from, they still have to start. However it is already drawn on OSM. Are there tags to indicate that it is planned, or do you have to remove it (the non-existing segment) for now ? Jo, I will look at your changes, since the numbering is incorrect. PrintBottle is nr 37, the building was marked as SchotteCo before I changed it. We live in nr 35, our house is not yet marked as a building, neither is the house of our neighbor. I have to verify the number of the building that is currently marked as 37. It should be 31 or so. regards m p.s. Do I have to split mails with many questions into smaller ones ? ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] help needed with tagging - sports clubs
Hi guys, I need some help to tag the following: - building - lake (visput) - the area around it I thought of using a multipolygon for this, but I'm unsure how to tag this properly. Similar: how do I tag the different fields of a soccer club the buildings ? Any examples that I can use ? thanks in advance for your help m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Vogelzangpad Nijlen
Hello, I did the Vogelzangpad in Nijlen today. How do I update the wiki page with all the correct links ? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Walking_Routes#Antwerpen_2 regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Vogelzangpad Nijlen
Julien, I would have given you that information, if I had known that someone else would update the wiki page. I see that the coloured arrow is missing. It should be a yellow one. Did I tag something incorrectly ? Peter, Ik heb deze week vakantie en heb nu wat tijd om wandelingen te maken. Zelf woon ik in Reet, maar wandel niet uitsluitend daar. Het is wel eerder toevallig dat ik de wandeling in Nijlen heb gedaan (gepaste afstand en nog niet gedaan heeft wel geholpen bij de beslissing). Het is dus niet zo dat ik me momenteel toeleg op Nijlen. Voorlopig wil ik eerst Reet en omstreken in kaart brengen. toch bedankt voor het aanbod. met vriendelijke groeten Marc (OSM name escada) ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Knooppuntennetwerken (Regional walking networks)
I have added quite a few 'knooppunten' of the Rivierenland regional walking network. This information is not available through the Walking Routes wiki page. Recently the Zuid-Dijleland network was added to the wiki page. Therefore people created a collection containing all nodes and routes of this network (as far as they exist). Should such a collection be created for all other knooppunten networks ? If so, can someone update the wiki page to reflect this, so I can properly create and tag that collection for Rivierenland I downloaded the gpx file from Zuid-Dijleland. I was hoping to get the collection of knooppunten as waypoints. The result was disappointing (import in Garmin RoadTrip). Too many routes, even non-existing, waypoints without the number of the knooppunt. Is there a better way to retrieve the information as GPX ? I would already be happy with the knooppunten alone, without the routes between them. I've tried exporting them from JOSM, but this also looses the number (which only exists as rwn_ref). Marc ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Regional walking networks
Sorry, for bringing up this topic in the first place. I thought that a new consensus on mapping regional mapping networks was reached, since an experienced mapper was using it. While I understand that there are pros and cons on the documented method and Gerard's method, I continue to use the documented method. Simply because this is the only one that new mappers can learn by looking at the documentation. I regret that people will have to use different methods for the different networks. I would rather see that everybody uses the same method. Discussion on changing the method can go on, but IMHO everybody should use the old, documented method until a new consensus is reached and documented. Hopefully a program can do the conversion in such a case. I did some additions to the Zuid-Dijleland network, but right now I'm hesitating to add nodes (in case I get the time to walk there again). As for the naming of the networks. I think the situation for the walking networks is different than for the cycling networks. Walking networks do not have the 00-99 limitation for example. I will keep using the names found on the signposts, simply because I do not have access to any other source. I will also keep adding any route tagged as 'Kempense Heuvelrug to the 'Antwerpse Kempen' network-relation, since they belong to that one (according to the signposts). Maybe we should create another network-relation for the routes and the nodes belonging to the networks documented by an additional source. We could have a 'Kempense Heuvelrug' as a subset of the 'Antwerpse Kempen' relationship. Assuming they are not identical. Inventing names for a group of nodes and routes is fine, but how does someone else know where to add new nodes and routes ? One should document clearly which nodes and routes go where. I think this (inventing names) is not needed (yet) for the walking networks. So, do not expect any change in my tagging behaviour for walking networks until a consensus is reached. Hopefully I get notified when this is the case. regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:00 PM, talk-be-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: If the signposts have Kempense Heuvelrug, I would create a separate network relation for it. We can always have collection relations to group them together at a higher level. The signposts are marked Antwerpse Kempen, at least for the part that I visited. This does not mean that all signpost are correct. I recently noticed that one of the direction signs in the Rivierenland network was named Scheldeland. A sign that was on vacation in a neighboring network ? ;-) m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Some maxspeed mapping questions
Here is the page on maxspeed. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed this is the section on the signs that left me with the questions Tagging sign positions Practice has shown that it is generally useful to *additionally* map the positions of maxspeed signs. It is suggested to put a node at the actual sign position and tag it with - traffic_sign http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign= maxspeedhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:traffic_sign%3Dmaxspeedaction=editredlink=1 - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=50 for a limit of 50 km/h This procedure is really helpful for other mappers and for yourself, as it is almost impossible to not overlook a sign while mapping an area the first time. It is suggested to also map repeated maxspeed signs. *Please note that this procedure is an additional help for mappers and still requires to map the maxspeed limits on the way as well!* * * * * There is also a section on the source, which I did not apply before, I used to only put a maxspeed tag on the way examples e.g. - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=50 and * source:maxspeed*=IT:urban - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=100 and * source:maxspeed*=DE:rural - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=130 and * source:maxspeed*=IT:motorway - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=50 and * source:maxspeed*=sign - - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=30 and * source:maxspeed*=DE:zone - Proposed by a majority on the mailing list - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=30 and * source:maxspeed*=DE:zone30 - Most used value - maxspeed http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed=30 and * source:maxspeed*=DE:zone:30 - Second most used value ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] How do I tag these addresses?
I use a slightly different way than Jo describes: For terraces (rijhuizen) I purely use the terrace tool. This creates the associates street as well if needed. It can add to an existing relation as well. So I create 1 big building with the building tool (w). Select the building and the road. Run the terrace tool (shift-T for me). Fill in lowest and highest number, press enter. This divides the large building in equally size houses Depending on the direction of the road, you might have to reverse the terrace.(shift-R for me) This works fine when all houses have the same size (depth) You can use the tool under 'x' to extrude certain parts of the houses, but you might get crossing buildings (warning in Josm). In your case it will work fine, because all houses have L-shapes For separated houses, it is better to create the individual house numbers as Jo described it. a separate line parallel to the road, pointing in the direction of the higher numbers. Run the tool to create the house numbers . I do not work with 1 large building anymore. I move he house numbers to the center of each hous on the bing photo. I then create individual buildings around each number. The building tool joins the house number with the building. So I do not have to separate the houses anymore (as in Jo's technique). This is faster for me. In this case the 'x' tool works great for L-shaped houses or other extension to the rectangular base shape. There is usually no problem with overlapping houses in this case hope this helps m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Mapping Taverne, Cafe, etc.
Hello, How do we map the followings amenities in Belgium ? - Taverne -- they serve more than only snacks or light meals (more restaurant-like), but they also serve (only) drinks, pancakes, etc (more cafe-like -- i.e. as intended by the amenity=cafe tag). - Cafe -- What I mean here is a cafe not selling snacks (beside perhaps chips or any other non-prepared food) (Bruin-cafe) thanks in advance m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 49, Issue 9
Sander, ivm met verschillende data op verschillende zoom levels. Ik vermoed dat het gevolg is dat niet alle zoom levels op hetzelfde moment terug worden opgebouwd. Je ziet gelijkaardige effecten op bv. openwandelkaart.nl of de lonvia maps. Wandelwegen die je toevoegt, verschijnen niet even snel op alle zoom levels. Verder heb je natuurlijk ook het verschijnsel dat niet alle data zichtbaar is op alle zoomlevels. Cafe's en restaurants vind je enkel als je dieper inzoomt. groeten Marc English: Sander asked why the data in Cleanmap and badmap is not the same on all levels. I think this is because the data for the different levels is not rebuild at the same time. You have similar effects on e.g. lonvia and openwandelkaart.nl Furthermore not all data is displayed at all levels, think e.g. pubs and restaurants. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 49, Issue 9
2012/1/20 talk-be-requ...@openstreetmap.org: - Als we straten maar verwijderen net voor we de nieuwe er op zetten, om voorgaande problemen op te lossen, dan bestaat het gevaar dat we de oude OSM data gebruiken om die opnieuw er op te zetten (wat ons in een twijfelachtige situatie brengt qua copyright. Ik wil zeker tegenstanders van ODBL geen reden geven om OSM aan te klagen) Jo, do you mean that I need to prove that I actually was in a certain street before I can remove and remap it ? Do you still have all data (on paper, gps track, photo, etc.) of everything that you ever mapped ? What about landuse ? This is always mapped from satellite images ( I assumue). So why should one wait until it disappeared before mapping it again ? An example is the Lippelobos (close to Lippelo - what a surprise ;-) ) I know it's called Lippelobos, I've been there before, so I can remove the current area, and use Bing satellite images to remap it. But you say I have to wait until it's actually gone ? What about streets that I've passed when I surveyed for the knooppunten ? I did not write down the name of the streets because they were there. If I had known they would we lost, I would have noted them down. It's also easier when I delete/re-add the streets now than loose them and my own mapping work above them. regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 49, Issue 10
Sorry about that. On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:30 AM, talk-be-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: This was my mail, not Jo's. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Tagging Questions
Hi all, I have a few tagging questions * How do I tag a 'Feestzaal/Sale de fête' that is part of a pub/restaurant ? usually it has a different name than the restaurant/pub * How do I tag a place that rents rooms for conferences, and other activities ? e.g. http://www.roosendael.be regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Elzestraat
Can someone please help me to tag/place the administrative node for Elzestraat (part of Sint-Kathelijne-Waver) http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elzestraat ? thanks m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 56, Issue 21
Sommige wandelnetwerken gebruiken '01', anderen '1', ik tag zoals ik ze tegenkom. De lijst van alle netwerkrelaties die ik heb aangemaakt, vind je ook terug op de wiki. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Walking_Routes Voor al deze relaties heb ik ook afkortingen verzonnen (ref-tag). Deze tags worden gebruikt als je de bijgevoegde css-file gebruikt in JOSM. Deze is gebaseerd op de file die Jo ooit voor de fietsnetwerken gemaakt heeft. Let wel deze file is nog niet aangepast voor route=hiking en gaat nog van route=foot uit. Jo heeft ook een script geschreven om GPX files te genereren voor wandelnetwerk relaties. Ik heb ook een aangepaste versie die enkel de knopen in GPX formaat omzet. Deze gebruikt ook de refs op de netwerken. Script werkt vanuit JOSM. Ik plaats die GPX file op mijn GPS en kan zo telkens verder bouwen op wat ik al ontdekt heb. BTW, Rivierenland is volgens mij voor 99% gedaan. rwn.mapcss Description: Binary data ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Zaventem internationale luchthaven
On http://www.flosm.de/html/POI-Karte.html I noticed that Dusseldorf Schiphol have the tag aerodrome = international aeroway = aerodrome Zaventem only has aeroway = aerodrome But it might be better to contact the creator of openbusmap (see Legal Info/License) on the website and ask which criteria he is using. m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 59, Issue 29
Jo, can I ask you why you do not follow the description of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed ? which states e.g. country_code:context (where the speed limit is defined by a particular context, for example urban/rural/motorway/etc.) Where the speed limit is indicated by special speed limits signposted at the border they can be tagged as follows: maxspeed=30 and source:maxspeed=DE:zone - Proposed by a majority on the mailing list maxspeed=30 and source:maxspeed=DE:zone30 - Most used value maxspeed=30 and source:maxspeed=DE:zone:30 - Second most used value I've been using this scheme for quite a while now. regards m On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 1:00 PM, talk-be-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Zones 30 in Belgium ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur Luxembourg
For your own favorite walks, cycle routes etc you can use either GPSies.org or wikiloc.org m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium
I've added most of those addresses in Reet. I use JOSM all the time to create associatedStreet relations. I vaguely remember seeing a different behavior at a certain point, where JOSM started adding addr:street tags to the buildings when its building tool creates an associatedStreet relation. Is this my imagination, or did anybody else noticed this as well ? m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Protected Monuments
I was wondering whether there is tag (or combination of tags) that can be used to mark a Protected Monument (Bescherm monument -- blue white sign) - http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultureel_erfgoed_in_Belgi%C3%AB I also noticed that there is a similar sign but red/white, some buildings in Hoogstraten carry them. I cannot find a site that explains the differences. Any help here is welcome regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Protected Monuments
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:03 AM, talk-be-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Being way to quick again, a little google search action turns up this, with a .be section : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/heritage But that remains a propostition since 2009 This is indeed what I was looking for. There are around 10.000 objects tagged with it. I will use this (after extending it for Flanders). Thanks ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] D1 road signal
For a section between C35 and C37 one could use the overtaking key, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:overtaking. Is it ok to add this tag to the wiki page ? m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] How_to_map_a page in Dutch/French
I was wondering whether someone would be interested to set up a How_to_map_a-page in Dutch or French. I consult the German regularly for things I tag frequently. I would be nice to have one in Dutch. see e.g. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_to_map_a http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:How_to_map_a Those pages contain simple things such as benches (probably because not everybody knows the English word), but also more complex things such as life-rings, dogschools or manages for which one have to use a combination of tags and which are more tagged by convention than by fixed rules. Before you say Good idea, do it yourself :-), Unfortunately I have no time to do this. I still have traces with data from end of 2011 ! that I have to process and input into OSM. So maybe someone is looking for a nice little project but does not have data to put into OSM ??? :-) Marc ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets
Hallo, I started working on a collection of presets for JOSM to improve my mapping speed. It contains a number of fixed settings, which can easily be accessed via F3. The labels are available in English and Dutch for the moment. Before uploading it to the official JOSM website, I'm looking for some volunteers to try it out. Nederlands: Ik ben begonnen met het maken van een preset file voor JOSM om mijn mapping snelheid te verhogen. Het is voornamelijk een collectie van fixed settings, zodat ik via F3 heel snel die tags kan zetten. Ik zoek nog een paar vrijwilligers om het te testen voordat ik het naar de officiële JOSM website upload. Dingen die er bv inzitten - Maximum snelheiden (met source traffic zone) - Glasbol textiel container (de laatste met veel voorkomende operatoren) - Busstop met alle velden die Jo graag ziet - Types gebouwen (om snel tussen de verschillende types te kunnen switchen, dank u F3) - Beschermde monumenten - Spoorwegovergangen (met slagbomen, signalen, etc.) - wat hond-gerelateerde zaken. - wandelknooppunten Gepland: - kerk, kapel, wegkapelletjes, .. Je mag ook altijd suggesties doen. Sorry my French is not good enough. ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? presets xmlns=http://josm.openstreetmap.de/tagging-preset-1.0; author=Marc Gemis version=0.1 shortdescription=Mapping in Flanders / Voor (beginnende) mappers in Vlaanderen description=De bedoeling is om een aantal veel gebruikte tag combinaties te groeperen, zodat beginnende gebruikers sneller en beter kunnen mappen. Deze file zou de informatie op http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a moeten ondersteunen. group name=How to map a ? (Flemish) name.nl=Hoe map ik een? item name=Glasbol type=node label text=Edit Glass Container text.nl=Wijzig Glasbol/ space / key key=amenity value=recycling/ key key=recycling_type value=container/ key key=recycling:glass_bottles value=yes/ /item item name=Recycling Clothes name.nl=Textiel Container type=node label text=Edit Recycling Container for Clothes text.nl=Wijzig Textiel Container/ space / key key=amenity value=recycling/ key key=recycling_type value=container/ key key=recycling:clothes value=yes/ optional combo key=operator text=Operator text.nl=Organizatie use_last_as_default=true values=V.H.S. Europ,Caritas n.v.,Vlaams Inzamel Centrum Textiel,Opnieuw en Co,Wereld Missie Hulp/ /optional /item item name=Life Ring name.nl=Reddingsboei type=node label text=Edit Life Ring text.nl=Wijzig Reddingsboei/ space / key key=amenity value=life_ring/ key key=emergency value=life_saving_equipment/ key key=life_saving_equipment value=life_buoy/ /item item name=Bus Stop name.nl=Bushalte icon=presets/bus_small.png type=node link href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=bus_stop; de.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:highway=bus_stop; es.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Tag:highway=bus_stop; fr.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:highway=bus_stop; pt_BR.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt-br:Tag:highway=bus_stop; ru.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Tag:highway=bus_stop; / label text=Edit Bus Stop text.nl=Wijzig Bushalte / space / key key=highway value=bus_stop / optional text key=name text=Name text.nl=Naam / combo key=shelter text=Shelter text.nl=Bushokje values=yes,no / combo key=bench text=Bench text.nl=Bank values=yes,no / combo key=tactile_paving text=Tactile Paving text.nl=Bestrating voor slechtzienden values=yes,no / text key=ref text=Ref / text key=route_ref text=Route Refs/ text key=zone text=Zone/ text key=addr:street text=Street text.nl=Straat / text key=addr:city text=City text.nl=Stad / text key=operator text=Operator text.nl=Uitbater default=De Lijn/ /optional /item item name=Bread Vending Machine name.nl=Brood Automaat type=node label text=Edit Bread Vending Machine text.nl=Wijzig Brood Automaat/ space / key key=amenity value=vending_machine/ key key=vending value=bread/ !-- ter onderscheiding met andere Automaten -- key key=name value=Bread/ optional text key=operator text=Bakery text.nl=Bakker default=/ /optional /item group name=Buildings name.nl=Gebouwen item name=Family House name.nl=Gezinswoning type=node,closedway key key=building value=house/ key key=source value=bing/ a /item item name=Shed name.nl=Tuinhuis type=node,closedway key key=building value=shed/ key key=source value=bing/ /item item name=Garage type=node,closedway key key=building value=garage/ key key=source value=bing/ /item item name=Greenhouse name.nl=Serre type=node,closedway key key=building value=greenhouse/ key key=source value=bing/ /item item name=Apartments name.nl=Apartementen type=node,closedway key key=building value=apartments/ key key=source value=bing/ /item
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets
het staat hier: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Preferences/Map#TaggingPresets omdat het een lokale file is moet je gewoon de + aan de rechter kant aanklikken. Dan kan je een naam geven en de file aanduiden. je moet misschien wel josm herstarten nadat je alles bewaardt hebt. 2013/2/14 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Hallo Marc, ** ** Daar vreesde ik al voor. **1. **Ik weet dus niet hoe ik die file moet installeren. Kan ik daar ergens iets over vinden? **2. **Die kapelletjes hebben al eens op het forum gestaan, maar zoals gewoonlijk is het niet afgesloten. ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** *Van:* Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* donderdag 14 februari 2013 13:56 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets ** ** Bedankt Guy, ** ** de file was als attachment toegevoegd. Je weet hoe je die moet installeren ? ** ** Jouw beschrijving is weer anders dan wat er op de wiki staat (Hoe map ik een). Ik was al van plan om dit op de lijst te discussie te brengen, maar nu zal ik zeker niet anders kunnen. :-) ** ** met vriendelijke groeten, ** ** m ** ** 2013/2/14 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Hallo Marc, Als ik dat kan dan wil ik wel wat uitproberen. Van die kerken en kapellen verwacht ik ook nog iets te horen. Momenteel maak ik onderscheid tussen: Kerken: building=church, amenity= place_of_worship, denomination= Christian, religion= catholic Kapel: (met een deur en plaats voor minstens 1 persoon): amenity= place_of_worship, *place_of_worship:type = chapel*, enz. Kapel: (zonder deur, nis, kapelletje op of tegen paal): id maar *place_of_worship:type : shrine*, Boomkapel (een kapelletje tegen een boom): *place_of_worship: type: tree*. Ik zit nog met twee vragen: 1. Voor kerk: gebruik ik building=church en/of place_of_worship:type = church. 2. Kan ik een onderscheid maken tussen een eenvoudige kapel (met 1 of enkele plaatsen) en een kapel die gebruikt wordt (of kan worden) voor een eredienst. Bijvoorbeeld een gehucht zonder dat het een afzonderlijke parochie is (Breisem hangt af van de parochie Kumtich) of een kapel in een school / ziekenhuis / klooster. Guy Vanvuchelen *Van:* Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* donderdag 14 februari 2013 13:11 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets Hallo, I started working on a collection of presets for JOSM to improve my mapping speed. It contains a number of fixed settings, which can easily be accessed via F3. The labels are available in English and Dutch for the moment. Before uploading it to the official JOSM website, I'm looking for some volunteers to try it out. Nederlands: Ik ben begonnen met het maken van een preset file voor JOSM om mijn mapping snelheid te verhogen. Het is voornamelijk een collectie van fixed settings, zodat ik via F3 heel snel die tags kan zetten. Ik zoek nog een paar vrijwilligers om het te testen voordat ik het naar de officiële JOSM website upload. Dingen die er bv inzitten - Maximum snelheiden (met source traffic zone) - Glasbol textiel container (de laatste met veel voorkomende operatoren) - Busstop met alle velden die Jo graag ziet - Types gebouwen (om snel tussen de verschillende types te kunnen switchen, dank u F3) - Beschermde monumenten - Spoorwegovergangen (met slagbomen, signalen, etc.) - wat hond-gerelateerde zaken. - wandelknooppunten Gepland: - kerk, kapel, wegkapelletjes, .. Je mag ook altijd suggesties doen. Sorry my French is not good enough. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ** ** ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets
Overdekte schuilplaats is amenity=shelter voor bushokjes komt daar dan shelter_type=public_transport bij. 2013/2/15 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be Kleine opmerking, een shed is niet enkel een tuinhuisje, dit wordt ook gebruikt voor een overdekte schuilplaats (bushokje bv). Eigenlijk wel een goed initiatief, dit weekend eens dieper bekijken. glenn On 02/15/2013 10:32 AM, Jo wrote: Sorry die link moet dit zijn: http://maxspeed.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=15lat=50.87599lon=4.71313layers=BT Jo ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets
Geen probleem Glen. de naam die je in het menu ziet is slechts een beschrijving. Als je daar graag 'Tuinhuisje, hut e.d' of zo ziet staan, kan dat. Het maakt voor de uiteindelijke tags niks uit. 2013/2/15 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be Tx, ik was weer te snel, heb maar 8 uur liggen micromappen aan een stuk deze nacht, zelfs bus shelter's ;-) Na een tijdje zie je S staan en je denkt shed. Het bushokje is idd een slecht voorbeeld, maar punt was vooral dat er nog meerdere type's zijn. sry. Glenn On 02/15/2013 10:45 AM, Marc Gemis wrote: Overdekte schuilplaats is amenity=shelter voor bushokjes komt daar dan shelter_type=public_transport bij. 2013/2/15 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be Kleine opmerking, een shed is niet enkel een tuinhuisje, dit wordt ook gebruikt voor een overdekte schuilplaats (bushokje bv). Eigenlijk wel een goed initiatief, dit weekend eens dieper bekijken. glenn On 02/15/2013 10:32 AM, Jo wrote: Sorry die link moet dit zijn: http://maxspeed.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=15lat=50.87599lon=4.71313layers=BT Jo ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets Benelux
Ik heb net gezien dat de presets nu via de Josm website beschikbaar zijn. Maar, blijkbaar is er nog iets verkeerd met de vertalingen. Op het moment dat je de preset installeert, krijg je 2 foutboodschappen. Als je telkens aangeeft dat je toch wil installeren, komt het daarna wel goed. Want als je daarna Josm herstart, verschijnen die foutboodschappen niet en werken de vertalingen wel. Ik gebruik zelf Josm 5697, bij een andere versie is het misschien anders. Ik zal nog proberen er verder naar te kijken later op de dag, maar kan nog niets beloven I just noticed that the Benelux presets are now available from the JOSM site. However, there is something wrong with the translations. At the moment you install the plugin you get 2 error messages (JOSM 5697). When you twice confirm that you want to install the plugin anyhow, you can use them after a restart of JOSM. At startup time JOSM does not complain and the Dutch translations are available. I hope to look into this later on today, but cannot promise that. m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets / 'Hoe map ik een kerk/kapel ...'
Erik, over welk onderwerp van OSM bestaat er nu geen discussie :-) Ik zal later eens kijken of de tekst overeenstemt met wat ik in de JOSM preset heb gestopt. m 2013/2/16 EeBie ebe...@gmail.com Geheel onbevangen vertaalde ik het item 'Kerk' uit het Duits voor Hoe map ik een ... Place_of_worship' blijkt achteraf één van de thema's waar al jaren discussie over bestaat. Ik voelde mij geroepen om op basis van reacties en vroegere discussies een stand van zaken op te maken: ik heb 'Kerk' gewijzigd en onderwerpen 'Kapel' en ' Kapelletjes en Kruisbeelden' bijgemaakt. Foto's staan er (nog) niet bij. Het is een wiki. Verbeteren is toegestaan. Groeten, Erik Op 15 februari 2013 08:18 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com het volgende: ik ben altijd zo vroeg op in de week :-) Er staat nog een foutje in (daarnet gezien). Hoe kan ik dat nu wijzigen op de wiki zodat het ook in de downloadable versie goed komt ? Ben de menuutjes nog wat aan het herschikken en aan het werken aan kerken, kapelletjes enzo. Zoals gisteren al halvelings vermeld, komt de Hoe map ik een pagina niet overeen met hoe ik de Engels-talige pagina's interpreteer. Mijn interpretatie ligt meer in de lijn met die van Sander (zie mail gisteren). Guy heeft er nog een ander idee over en wil feitelijk gedetailleerder gaan (kapelletjes in een boom bv,) Ik weet nog niet hoe ik dat ga aanpakken. m 2013/2/15 Jo winfi...@gmail.com Wow, je was vroeg op :-) Ik heb er nog wat spelfoutjes uitgehaald. source:maxspeed=BE:urban heb ik weggehaald. Er staat al traffic:zone=BE:urban. Volgens mij is dat voldoende om aan te geven dat die straat binnen de bebouwde kom ligt. Ik heb hem ook hier gezet: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Presets/BENELUX Binnen een paar dagen, staat hij dan ook in het lijstje van JOSM (bereikbaar via F12) Jo Op 15 februari 2013 05:28 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com het volgende: Een verbeterde versie. 1) Glasbol ook vertaald 2) Het 'a' tje dat een fout gaf bij Guy eruit (erin gesukkeld na mijn laatste test en voor het verzenden naar de lijst) 3) Zonder de icon verwijzingen. Bij mij (Josm 5697 op OS X) gaven die geen probleem. Corrected version 1) Glasbol translated in English 2) Removed an additional 'a' (got in the file after the last test and before sending to the list) 3) No references to 'icon' - they were only in a version that I send to Jo and did not give a problem on JOSM 5697 on OS X. m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] barriers
Just my .5 cent Ik map de poort op de kruising van de weg en de omheining. Als je echt gedetailleerd wil mappen dan zijn er wel gevallen waar er een poort is met daarnaast een smalle doorsteek voor voetgangers, waar je dan een opening zou kunnen laten. Maar dan moet je ook wel een voetweg door die opening tekening. Daar hou ik me niet mee bezig. Als er iemand de vertaling hiervan gaat doen, gelieve dan ook draaiboom/swing_gate op te nemen. :-) Josm herkent die nog wel niet, maar dit is de meest voorkomende poort in onze Belgische bossen. De tag is wel vernoemd op de Engelse wiki m 2013/2/16 Gilbert Hersschens gherssch...@gmail.com Wat is de juiste manier om een poort, slagboom, etc. (barrier) te mappen ? Als een area omheind is, laat je dan de omheining doorlopen (gesloten way) en zet je de poort (gate) dan op de kruising van de weg en de omheining, of laat je een kleine opening in de omheining links en rechts van de weg en dan is er geen verbinding tussen de poort en de omheining ? Gilbert ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets Benelux
Update: de foutmelding die optreedt is blijkbaar een bug in Josm. Er had nog niemand deze syntax gebruikt voor vertalingen. Zou gefixed moeten zijn in de volgende versie van Josm. Update: the error on our Benelux preset file is caused by a bug in Josm. Apparantly, nobody used this part of the translations before. It has been fixed for the next version of Josm m 2013/2/16 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Ik heb net gezien dat de presets nu via de Josm website beschikbaar zijn. Maar, blijkbaar is er nog iets verkeerd met de vertalingen. Op het moment dat je de preset installeert, krijg je 2 foutboodschappen. Als je telkens aangeeft dat je toch wil installeren, komt het daarna wel goed. Want als je daarna Josm herstart, verschijnen die foutboodschappen niet en werken de vertalingen wel. Ik gebruik zelf Josm 5697, bij een andere versie is het misschien anders. Ik zal nog proberen er verder naar te kijken later op de dag, maar kan nog niets beloven I just noticed that the Benelux presets are now available from the JOSM site. However, there is something wrong with the translations. At the moment you install the plugin you get 2 error messages (JOSM 5697). When you twice confirm that you want to install the plugin anyhow, you can use them after a restart of JOSM. At startup time JOSM does not complain and the Dutch translations are available. I hope to look into this later on today, but cannot promise that. m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection
Mijn method is Garmin + waypoints voor alle huizen. Voor rijen gebruik ik wel bv. R1+-+11 voor aangesloten bebouwing. (rechts van looprichting oneven nummer 1,3,5, 7, 11). Omdat ik bijna continu lig te typen vind je zo ook alle straatmeubilair (als je ertegen loopt of erover struikelt :-) ) Nauwkeurigheid van Garmin in nauwe straten met huizen laat ook wel te wensen over. Diepste zoomlevels van Bing lijken rond Aartselaar beter (of toch zeker niet slechter te zijn) te zijn dan hogere (als ik vergelijk met de GPX trace). Voor building tool: ofwel kan je een andere preset invullen (building=house, source=bing) ofwel gebruik je een van de presets uit mijn Benelux preset (als knop in toolbar plaatsen of via F3). Wil gerust nog wel eens mijn werkwijze life demonstreren tijdens een mapping party. En hopelijk horen wat er nog beter kan. Want inderdaad je doet 3-4 keer zolang over het ingeven. Zeker het huisjes tekenen, mooi aangesloten is tijdrovend. Building en terrace plugins en extrude, join node, merge nodes zijn onmisbaar, maar zelfs dan duurt het nog lang. I use Garmin + waypoints for each house. I constructed my own language for this, e.g. R1+-+11 for a row of houses with numbers 1,3,5,7,11. The accuracy of the Garmin is not good in small streets or near high buildings. I noticed that the areaphotography of bing is quite good, also at highest zoomlevels near Aartselaar. I really walk on the sidewalk there. Building tool: has the advanced mode in which you can change the tags. You could also use the presents from my Benelux preset (as button in the toolbar of via F3). It takes indeed 3 - 4 times to process all data afterwards. Especially drawing houses, nicely lined up. Yes, I know the terrace-plugin, but where do you find houses in Belgium, that are all nicely lined up ? 2013/2/18 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be Tx, geheel andere werkwijze, interessant, net wat ik eens wou horen. PS, voor buildings - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/BuildingsTools Building plugin, ook prima voor parkeerplaatsen en alles dat vierkant is (tag building eraf doen en retaggen) Met die plugin heb ik in groot Zemst duizenden huizen gedaan, Als er een vorm sterk van vierkant afwijkt doe ik een paar manuele aanpassingen. Goed punt over dat plan in de richting draaien in OSMPAD, deze applicatie is wat ruw, de 'toetsen' mogen van mij ook best wat groter, zeker de + en de enter. Mij is het ook niet direct duidelijk of de positie genomen word op het moment ik de + indruk, of op het moment dat ik de nummer erin slaag... Ik moet altijd even stoppen of ik loop het volgende huis voorbij. Snel is het wel. Maar je doet met deze accuracy best 1 kant tegelijk. Ik vond de HTC Desire S GPS stukken beter. Professioneel kan ik met deze toestellen werken: http://www.yourstreamline.com/index.php/products.html Daar zitten 3 buttons op die je kan configureren met input patronen, je zou dus bv eenheden, 10tallen en 100tallen kunnen programmeren via aantal keren dat je erop druk binnen een bepaalde tijdspanne (in combinatie met fix). Alleen gaat dit niet op voor 'huisnummers' zoals (/A /1 , bus 4 ). De fixes hiervan zijn wel een pak correcter, maar bruikbaarheid niet. Glenn On 02/18/2013 11:18 AM, Guy Vanvuchelen wrote: Tot nu toe heb ik drie methoden gebruikt. 1. Thuis gebouwen tekenen via Bing, een straat afdrukken en ter plaatse de nummers gaan opschrijven. Daarna thuis de nummers inbrengen. 2. Met de Garmin-GPS een Waypoint opgeven op een goed te herkennen plaats (bijv een kruispunt). Daarna in een dictafoon (Smartphone) gewoon de nummers opnoemen met daarbij zoveel mogelijk informatie: dwars op de straat, L vormig huis, schuur of garage, korter of verder van de weg, tegenover huisnummer x, enz. 3. OSMPAD. Nog niet veel ervaring. Mij stoort het dat het plan niet in de wandelrichting gedraaid wordt. Van deze drie methoden is tot nu toe voor mij de tweede het best. Deze methode geeft mij de grootste zekerheid maar is anderzijds weer minder goed in drukke gebieden. Heel goed bruikbaar op een wandeling waar één of enkele huizen in 'het veld' staan. Ook nog goed bruikbaar in straten waar de huizen (meestal) los van mekaar staan. Nog een voordeel is dat je niet voor elk huis moet blijven staan en de mensen denken dat je aan't bellen bent. (Ik ben nog niet moeten gaan lopen) Maar het blijft een tijdrovende bezigheid om die ingesproken tekst te beluisteren en dan de nummers in te brengen. Bij deze methode kan je dus ook het tekenen en nummeren gelijktijdig doen. Voor het gebruik van OSMPAD is het volgens mij heel nuttig dat de gebouwen op voorhand getekend zijn. Het inbrengen van de nummers gaat automatisch en je kan het gebouw en het nummer gemakkelijk samenvoegen (in JOSM beiden selecteren + shift T (rijtjeshuis maken) Guy Vanvuchelen -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Glenn Plas [mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be gl...@byte-consult.be ]
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection
Via OSMPAD kan je inderdaad in de field de huisnummers controleren. Met een Garmin GPS kan je enkel nadien controleren. Dus de nummers die in de field worden ingegeven, kunnen nadien vergeleken worden met wat reeds in in OSM aanwezig is. Het is dan wel geen nieuwe data, wel controle data. Is het dan tijdverlies om ze onderweg in te geven ? Voorlopig heb ik daarmee ook nog geluk gehad, dat ik nog niet teveel op bestaande huisnummers ben gebotst. m 2013/2/18 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be OSMPAD heeft een voordeel tegenover het gebruik van de GPS. Je kan zien of de huisnummers al ingebracht zijn. Als ik ergens ga wandelen (met mijn vrouw, geen hond dus) dan weet ik eigenlijk niet op voorhand waar ik overal langs kom. Dus kan ik ook niet voorbereiden. Ik concentreer me dan vooral op afgelegen huizen waar iemand die een streek systematisch wil aanpakken, veel tijd in steekt. En regelmatig valt het voor dat ik huisnummers inbreng die al in OPS staan. Bij OSMPAD zie je dat wel, maar niet op de GARMIN OSM KAART. Alles ‘heb zijn voordeel en nadeel’ zou Cruyff zeggen. ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** *Van:* Gilbert Hersschens [mailto:gherssch...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 18 februari 2013 13:50 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection ** ** Hangt ervan af hoe je te werk gaat. Gewoon de ingebouwde GPS op mijn smartphone met imagegeotag ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.imageotaghl=en). Valt best mee. Als je met de fiets of de wagen voorbij rijdt zal het misschien niet goed lukken. Ik heb al ondervonden dat camera toepassingen altijd een paar seconden extra nodig hebben om de GPS data te capteren nadat de foto genomen is. Dit programma heeft ook een seconde of 3.4 extra nodig, maar is voor de rest super eenvoudig te bedienen. Just point and shoot. De nauwkeurigheid van mijn GPS is op zijn best een meter of 4..5 maar om de locatie van een foto te bepalen volstaat dat. Het programma zet de geotags in de exif file en op het beeld. Het capteert ook de gegevens van het kompas, wat handig kan zijn om de locatie van een verafgelegen toren of mast te bepalen aan de hand van meerdere foto's die vanop verschillende plaatsen genomen zijn. Hierbij is het 'crosshair' dat altijd als overlay in het beeld zit erg handig om het object te centreren voor de juiste kompas gegevens. Foto's meesturen lukt niet met Talk, maar je kan het resultaat van een testje hier downloaden: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_mcNCW4oRVOdkE1bEhkcmtGMkk/edit?usp=sharing. De GPS zit er een meter of 6 naast, maar voor heel wat zaken is dat goed genoeg. Het is trouwens nog de vraag hou juist de locatie van mijn woning op OSM is. Die is er ook maar via Bing op gezet en kan er dus ook een paar meter naast zijn. Gilbert On 18 February 2013 10:51, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: Hallo, In navolging van de meeting in Lier heb ik dan toch eens de smaak even te pakken in het verzamelen van huisnummers, ik heb hier toch een paar bedenkingen/vragen bij: - GPS Accuraatheid via OSMPAD op Samsung S3 is onder niveau - Vertrouw Bing maps niet te hard wat betreft recente foto's (diepste zoomlevel in JOSM staat volgens mij met een offset verkeerd, deze foto's zijn zeer oud). - Nog veel editeer/controleer werk nadien, duurt mss 4 keer zolang dan het wandelen zelf. - Veel mensen hebben gewoon geen nummers hangen - Best niet in het donker proberen, overdag moet je wel klaarzijn om te gaan lopen, sommige mensen vinden hun huisnummer prive ... - Map cache functie in OSMPAD werkt niet voor mij - Een oog altijd op de weg houden als je voor nummers scant. Aangezien zij het landschap sterk lijken te bepalen via wandelwegen pleit ik voor 'barrier=dogshit' tag te gebruiken. vragen - Welke hardware levert naast correcte locaties ook de gebruiksvriendelijkheid van OSMPAD wat het invoeren van nummers betreft. - Zijn er andere/betere tools voor Android ? - Wat gebruiken jullie ? Bedankt, Since the meeting in Lier , I've been getting myself into the collection of housenumbers, I do have a few remarks / questions since starting this: - Accuracy of the GPS on Samsung S3 is low - Never trust Bing maps too much concerning aerial photo's, The deepest zoomlevel seem to be offset (where available) but also quite aged. - Editing takes 4 times as much time as walking the walk - Many people don't even care about hanging up their housenumbers. - Walking in the dark is a bad idea, and watch out for people who consider their housenumber a private property, be prepared to make a run for it. - Map caching does not work in OSMPAD - Always keep one eye for the road while scanning housenumbers, since they seem to define the landscape here I want to vote for the use of the tag 'barrier=dogshit', perhaps 'barrier=dogpile' for the larger concentrations. questions - Do you know of any
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection
op die ongekende plaatsen ben ik gewoonlijk toch op jacht naar knooppunten en de routes. De huisnummers neem ik gewoon mee. Net zoals de bushaltes, maxspeed, vuilbakken, zitbanken, kapelletjes, straat verlicht ? aantal rijstroken, enz. enz. dus tijd verlies ik er niet echt mee. 2013/2/18 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Inderdaad, controle kan nooit kwaad. Toch vind ik het zonde van de tijd omdat er nog zoveel straten en gemeenten zijn waar geen enkel huisnummer ingebracht is. Bovendien kan de controle beter door iemand uit de streek gebeuren. Op een ongekende locatie ga ik immers altijd de straat waaraan de woning ligt inbrengen maar het adres kan best een andere straat zijn, zeker bij huizen die ergens in het midden van een bos of veld staan. ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** *Van:* Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 18 februari 2013 15:22 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection ** ** Via OSMPAD kan je inderdaad in de field de huisnummers controleren. Met een Garmin GPS kan je enkel nadien controleren. Dus de nummers die in de field worden ingegeven, kunnen nadien vergeleken worden met wat reeds in in OSM aanwezig is. Het is dan wel geen nieuwe data, wel controle data. Is het dan tijdverlies om ze onderweg in te geven ? Voorlopig heb ik daarmee ook nog geluk gehad, dat ik nog niet teveel op bestaande huisnummers ben gebotst. ** ** ** ** ** ** m ** ** 2013/2/18 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be OSMPAD heeft een voordeel tegenover het gebruik van de GPS. Je kan zien of de huisnummers al ingebracht zijn. Als ik ergens ga wandelen (met mijn vrouw, geen hond dus) dan weet ik eigenlijk niet op voorhand waar ik overal langs kom. Dus kan ik ook niet voorbereiden. Ik concentreer me dan vooral op afgelegen huizen waar iemand die een streek systematisch wil aanpakken, veel tijd in steekt. En regelmatig valt het voor dat ik huisnummers inbreng die al in OPS staan. Bij OSMPAD zie je dat wel, maar niet op de GARMIN OSM KAART. Alles ‘heb zijn voordeel en nadeel’ zou Cruyff zeggen. Guy Vanvuchelen *Van:* Gilbert Hersschens [mailto:gherssch...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 18 februari 2013 13:50 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection Hangt ervan af hoe je te werk gaat. Gewoon de ingebouwde GPS op mijn smartphone met imagegeotag ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.imageotaghl=en). Valt best mee. Als je met de fiets of de wagen voorbij rijdt zal het misschien niet goed lukken. Ik heb al ondervonden dat camera toepassingen altijd een paar seconden extra nodig hebben om de GPS data te capteren nadat de foto genomen is. Dit programma heeft ook een seconde of 3.4 extra nodig, maar is voor de rest super eenvoudig te bedienen. Just point and shoot. De nauwkeurigheid van mijn GPS is op zijn best een meter of 4..5 maar om de locatie van een foto te bepalen volstaat dat. Het programma zet de geotags in de exif file en op het beeld. Het capteert ook de gegevens van het kompas, wat handig kan zijn om de locatie van een verafgelegen toren of mast te bepalen aan de hand van meerdere foto's die vanop verschillende plaatsen genomen zijn. Hierbij is het 'crosshair' dat altijd als overlay in het beeld zit erg handig om het object te centreren voor de juiste kompas gegevens. Foto's meesturen lukt niet met Talk, maar je kan het resultaat van een testje hier downloaden: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_mcNCW4oRVOdkE1bEhkcmtGMkk/edit?usp=sharing. De GPS zit er een meter of 6 naast, maar voor heel wat zaken is dat goed genoeg. Het is trouwens nog de vraag hou juist de locatie van mijn woning op OSM is. Die is er ook maar via Bing op gezet en kan er dus ook een paar meter naast zijn. Gilbert On 18 February 2013 10:51, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: Hallo, In navolging van de meeting in Lier heb ik dan toch eens de smaak even te pakken in het verzamelen van huisnummers, ik heb hier toch een paar bedenkingen/vragen bij: - GPS Accuraatheid via OSMPAD op Samsung S3 is onder niveau - Vertrouw Bing maps niet te hard wat betreft recente foto's (diepste zoomlevel in JOSM staat volgens mij met een offset verkeerd, deze foto's zijn zeer oud). - Nog veel editeer/controleer werk nadien, duurt mss 4 keer zolang dan het wandelen zelf. - Veel mensen hebben gewoon geen nummers hangen - Best niet in het donker proberen, overdag moet je wel klaarzijn om te gaan lopen, sommige mensen vinden hun huisnummer prive ... - Map cache functie in OSMPAD werkt niet voor mij - Een oog altijd op de weg houden als je voor nummers scant. Aangezien zij het landschap sterk lijken te bepalen via wandelwegen pleit ik voor 'barrier=dogshit' tag te gebruiken. vragen - Welke hardware levert naast correcte
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection
De hondjes klagen soms ook wel, als ik te lang stilsta :-) de maxspeed komt op een stuk weg. Telkens de maximum snelheid verandert, moet je de weg splitsen. hetzelfde met het aantal rijstroken. en feitelijk ook met parking:lanes als je wandelknooppunten toevoegt, rwn_ref = xxx op de knoop en die node toevoegen aan de relatie die alle knopen en routes van dat netwerk bevat. aub m 2013/2/18 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Omdat ik niet alleen op stap ben maar met mijn (strenge) vrouw kan ik niet te veel hooi op mijn vork nemen tijdens de wandeling. Vuilbakken, zitbanken, kapelletjes, hindernissen (klappoortjes, vernauwingen, enz. ) neem ik meestal look mee. Gisteren heb ik voor het eerst ook wandel-knooppunten opgenomen. Wat die maxspeed betreft. Neem je gewoon het ‘bord’ op of zet je de weg op bijv 70 km. In dat laatste geval weet je toch niet hoe ver? Hetzelfde met het aantal rijstroken. ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** *Van:* Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 18 februari 2013 16:02 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection ** ** op die ongekende plaatsen ben ik gewoonlijk toch op jacht naar knooppunten en de routes. De huisnummers neem ik gewoon mee. Net zoals de bushaltes, maxspeed, vuilbakken, zitbanken, kapelletjes, straat verlicht ? aantal rijstroken, enz. enz. ** ** dus tijd verlies ik er niet echt mee. ** ** ** ** 2013/2/18 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Inderdaad, controle kan nooit kwaad. Toch vind ik het zonde van de tijd omdat er nog zoveel straten en gemeenten zijn waar geen enkel huisnummer ingebracht is. Bovendien kan de controle beter door iemand uit de streek gebeuren. Op een ongekende locatie ga ik immers altijd de straat waaraan de woning ligt inbrengen maar het adres kan best een andere straat zijn, zeker bij huizen die ergens in het midden van een bos of veld staan. Guy Vanvuchelen *Van:* Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 18 februari 2013 15:22 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection Via OSMPAD kan je inderdaad in de field de huisnummers controleren. Met een Garmin GPS kan je enkel nadien controleren. Dus de nummers die in de field worden ingegeven, kunnen nadien vergeleken worden met wat reeds in in OSM aanwezig is. Het is dan wel geen nieuwe data, wel controle data. Is het dan tijdverlies om ze onderweg in te geven ? Voorlopig heb ik daarmee ook nog geluk gehad, dat ik nog niet teveel op bestaande huisnummers ben gebotst. m 2013/2/18 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be OSMPAD heeft een voordeel tegenover het gebruik van de GPS. Je kan zien of de huisnummers al ingebracht zijn. Als ik ergens ga wandelen (met mijn vrouw, geen hond dus) dan weet ik eigenlijk niet op voorhand waar ik overal langs kom. Dus kan ik ook niet voorbereiden. Ik concentreer me dan vooral op afgelegen huizen waar iemand die een streek systematisch wil aanpakken, veel tijd in steekt. En regelmatig valt het voor dat ik huisnummers inbreng die al in OPS staan. Bij OSMPAD zie je dat wel, maar niet op de GARMIN OSM KAART. Alles ‘heb zijn voordeel en nadeel’ zou Cruyff zeggen. Guy Vanvuchelen *Van:* Gilbert Hersschens [mailto:gherssch...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 18 februari 2013 13:50 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection Hangt ervan af hoe je te werk gaat. Gewoon de ingebouwde GPS op mijn smartphone met imagegeotag ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.imageotaghl=en). Valt best mee. Als je met de fiets of de wagen voorbij rijdt zal het misschien niet goed lukken. Ik heb al ondervonden dat camera toepassingen altijd een paar seconden extra nodig hebben om de GPS data te capteren nadat de foto genomen is. Dit programma heeft ook een seconde of 3.4 extra nodig, maar is voor de rest super eenvoudig te bedienen. Just point and shoot. De nauwkeurigheid van mijn GPS is op zijn best een meter of 4..5 maar om de locatie van een foto te bepalen volstaat dat. Het programma zet de geotags in de exif file en op het beeld. Het capteert ook de gegevens van het kompas, wat handig kan zijn om de locatie van een verafgelegen toren of mast te bepalen aan de hand van meerdere foto's die vanop verschillende plaatsen genomen zijn. Hierbij is het 'crosshair' dat altijd als overlay in het beeld zit erg handig om het object te centreren voor de juiste kompas gegevens. Foto's meesturen lukt niet met Talk, maar je kan het resultaat van een testje hier downloaden: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_mcNCW4oRVOdkE1bEhkcmtGMkk/edit?usp=sharing. De GPS zit er een meter of 6 naast, maar voor heel wat zaken
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection and GPSsing GSMs
How up-to-date is this PICC database ? I randomly clicked on the map, and came in Orbais. There I see at least 15 houses without red rectangle. Does this mean that they are not in the database yet ? On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:25 PM, A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.comwrote: On 2013-02-18 10:51, Glenn Plas wrote : Since the meeting in Lier , I've been getting myself into the collection of housenumbers, I do have a few remarks / questions since starting this: - Accuracy of the GPS on Samsung S3 is low see 2 below. - Never trust Bing maps too much concerning aerial photo's, The deepest zoomlevel seem to be offset (where available) but also quite aged. I have mentioned many times (mailing lists and e-mail to taggers) that Bing zoom needs a per area JOSM offset correction. Its a pity to notice careful mappers devote so much time making maps offset because of Bing. - Editing takes 4 times as much time as walking the walk see 1 below (airplane speed). - Many people don't even care about hanging up their housenumbers. see 1 below. - Walking in the dark is a bad idea, and watch out for people who consider their housenumber a private property, be prepared to make a run for it. see 1 below. - Map caching does not work in OSMPAD - Always keep one eye for the road while scanning housenumbers, since they seem to define the landscape here I want to vote for the use of the tag 'barrier=dogshit', perhaps 'barrier=dogpile' for the larger concentrations. I saw people sticking little flags on dog poop but one still has to watch one's steps. There's an impressive amount of hardwarehttp://www.befr.ebay.be/sch/i.html?LH_AvailTo=23_sop=15_ipg=200_kw=dog%20poopfor that software, but nothing of what you need. Resist using bags and putting them in the letterboxes, even if that raises the discussion among the concerned people. But if you walk your own dog while prospecting numbers, you will feel the leash loosen at every danger ;-) questions - Do you know of any hardware that gives better GPS fixes and comes with the ease-of-use OSMPAD delivers on entering numbers ? - Are there any better tools/software around for this type of work on Android ? - What do you use? 1 The PICC maps http://cartocit1.wallonie.be/pw/index.jsp contains very precise building mapping with street numbers. You'll never do better than an airplane. This is one, just one, of the reasons why I say it's of paramount importance for us to be able to use PICC. People say that the government agrees to make it available but that they have no time to say yes. This is why I wait and I'm doing very limited house numbering business presently. 2 Does anyone have an opinion or recommendation about such cheap deviceshttp://www.tinydeal.com/index.php?main_page=ws_search_resultis_search=1inc_subcat=search_in_description=3keyword=wifi+gpsis_input=keyword=wifi+gpscPath=categories_id=54disp_order=3? (there are other similar shops) Usually, CN stuff is of fair quality but minimally documented and supported (e.g. no MP4 games). But that's different for Android, isn't it? 22€ means a risk of paying taxes, but, according to Test-Achats, it looks like it's only VAT. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection
2013/2/19 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Knooppunten: Er zijn twee relaties : Wandelnetwerk Antwerpse Kempen en Wandelnetwerk Antwerpse Kempen – Kempense Landduinen. Op het internet vind ik dat het Wandelnetwerk Antwerpse Kempen onderverdeeld is in 10 routes waaronder Kempense Landduinen. Ik meen me ter herinneren dat, op de borden, soms alleen Wandelnetwerk Antwerpse Kempen vermeld staat en dan weer Kempense landduinen. Ik zal de knooppunten die ik genoteerd had dus toevoegen aan Kempense Landduinen. ** ** Onze route volgde niet echt de knooppunten, de routes tussen de knooppunten heb ik dus niet. ** ** Voor maximum snelheden gebruik ik de presets. Maar het zijn nog altijd de eerste presets die je doorstuurde, *ik weet namelijk niet hoe ik de laatste versie (in JOSM geïntegreerd) te voorschijn moet toveren.* Het probleem bij de wandelnetwerken in de Antwerpse Kempen is dat op het overgrote deel van de paaltjes Antwerpse Kempen staat. Enkel op de zeldzame borden geven ze het deelnetwerk aan. Ik was begonnen met alles in 1 netwerk te stoppen (mappen wat je op de grond ziet). Het nadeel is dat iedereen die naar een website van Tourisme Vlaanderen gaat of een kaart koopt wel over die deelnetwerken beschikt. Ik probeer dus zo goed mogelijk (gebaseerd op de kaarten onderweg en de opgelijste gemeentes op de websites) de nodes en routes onder te brengen in de deelnetwerken. Al die deelnetwerken worden gegroepeerd in het netwerk Antwerpse Kempen. De bedoeling is niet om daar knopen of routes toe te voegen. Het lijstje dat ik gebruik: tussen haakjes de JOSM relatie nummer voor het netwerk Relation Wandelnetwerk Antwerpse Kempen (1712195) Kempense Beemden (2505512) Vorselaar Kempense Kolonie (2172320) Hoogstraten - Merksplas Kempense Hoven (2172339) Zoersel, Beerse, Vosselaar, Lille, Malle, Ranst, Zandhoven, Schilde, Schoten, Brecht,Rijkevorsel Kempense Heuvelrug (2172382) Retie, Kasterlee, Herentals Kempense Heide (2172381) Brasschaat,Brecht,Essen,Kalmthout,Kapellen,Wuustwezel Kempens Landgoed (2172380) Turnhout, Arendonk, Oud-Turnhout, Ravels, Poppel Kempense Landduinen (2172383) Balen, Geel, Meerhout Kempense Netevallei (2442510) Lier Om de geïntegreerde versie van de plugin te voorschijn te halen, ga je naar hetzelfde scherm waar je de file hebt geïnstalleerd. Normaal gezien zie je aan de linkerkant een lijstje van beschikbare presets. Daar staat de BENELUX preset tussen. Aanklikken, dan om pijltje -- klikken om hem naar rechts te brengen. Je krijgt dus nog steeds de foutboodschap dat itemlist niet in orde is, maar dat is een JOSM bug. Gewoon aangeven dat je toch de plugin wil gebruiken. Er is namelijk geen probleem als je JOSM opstart, enkel bij het sluiten van de preset installatie dialoog. Je kan de oude verwijderen door hem te selecteren in de dialoog en dan het vuilbakje aan te klikken. Hopelijk lukt het met deze sumiere beschrijving. m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection and GPSsing GSMs
André, sorry that I sound so negative about this dataset. But since it is incomplete and although the next version will be more complete, it will be incomplete again. That's the nature of this kind of data. We still need people that go out in the field to make additions and corrections. How will you cope with this ? How will you merge existing data with the imported data ? how often will you do an import ? Who decides which data is correct ? How do keep existing POI data ? Do you have a plan for this ? I seriously hope that you are an experienced programmer who has merged geographical databases in the past. Otherwise you might get a lot of complaints the day that your import has run. Success with this project and hopefully you get the data soon. Until then, go out and survey, it's healthy :-) regards m On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:15 PM, A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.comwrote: On 2013-02-19 05:30, Marc Gemis wrote : How up-to-date is this PICC database ? I randomly clicked on the map, and came in Orbais. There I see at least 15 houses without red rectangle. Does this mean that they are not in the database yet ? 15 houses out of how many? Where else did you see the houses? If you find out when the houses were built, then you have some answer to your question. What I can say is that no house of the very few I was interested in was missing. I determined that an aerial view they show is at least 12 years old. But the houses that are missing there are on this map. Quand on vous offre un cheval, on ne regarde pas les dents. Please note that the site is replaced by the following one. Their new maps are expectedly more up to date. But this is a warning. Compare them. If the old maps disappeared, we would lose very much. And this is a less obvious reason why it's important to get the permission to use them. Hoping this can help. Cheers, André. Le Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne est remplacé par le Géoportail de la Wallonie ! Le Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne méritait bien un petit coup de jeune. C’est désormais chose faite, puisque son successeur est en ligne depuis peu. Découvrez dès à présent le nouveau *Géoportail de la Walloniehttp://geoportail.wallonie.be *. En pratique : - Ne parlez plus de Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne mais de Géoportail de la Wallonie. - Remplacez vos liens pointant vers http://cartographie.wallonie.be par la nouvelle adresse http://geoportail.wallonie.be ! - Si vous ne trouvez pas sur le Géoportail de la Wallonie un contenu que vous aviez l’habitude de trouver sur l’ancien portail, n’hésitez pas à *nous contacter http://geoportail.wallonie.be/cms/home/contact.html*. - Le Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne restera encore en ligne pendant quelques mois afin de vous assurer une transition la plus douce possible. Toutefois certaines pages disposent déjà d'une redirection automatique vers le nouveau Géoportail de la Wallonie. On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:25 PM, A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: On 2013-02-18 10:51, Glenn Plas wrote : Since the meeting in Lier , I've been getting myself into the collection of housenumbers, I do have a few remarks / questions since starting this: - Accuracy of the GPS on Samsung S3 is low see 2 below. - Never trust Bing maps too much concerning aerial photo's, The deepest zoomlevel seem to be offset (where available) but also quite aged. I have mentioned many times (mailing lists and e-mail to taggers) that Bing zoom needs a per area JOSM offset correction. Its a pity to notice careful mappers devote so much time making maps offset because of Bing. - Editing takes 4 times as much time as walking the walk see 1 below (airplane speed). - Many people don't even care about hanging up their housenumbers. see 1 below. - Walking in the dark is a bad idea, and watch out for people who consider their housenumber a private property, be prepared to make a run for it. see 1 below. - Map caching does not work in OSMPAD - Always keep one eye for the road while scanning housenumbers, since they seem to define the landscape here I want to vote for the use of the tag 'barrier=dogshit', perhaps 'barrier=dogpile' for the larger concentrations. I saw people sticking little flags on dog poop but one still has to watch one's steps. There's an impressive amount of hardwarehttp://www.befr.ebay.be/sch/i.html?LH_AvailTo=23_sop=15_ipg=200_kw=dog%20poopfor that software, but nothing of what you need. Resist using bags and putting them in the letterboxes, even if that raises the discussion among the concerned people. But if you walk your own dog while prospecting numbers, you will feel the leash loosen at every danger ;-) questions - Do you know of any hardware that gives better GPS fixes and comes with the ease-of-use OSMPAD delivers on entering numbers ? - Are there any better tools/software
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets / 'Hoe map ik een kerk/kapel ...'
Dat is vreemd want die highway=living_street staat er nu al bij. dit is wat er nu (0.6.1 de versie op de wiki en dus downloadable) in staat item name=Living Street (max 20) nl.name=Woonerf (max 20) icon=presets/living_street.png type=way key key=highway value=living_street/ key key=maxspeed value=20/ key key=zone:traffic value=BE:urban/ /item Ik kan natuurlijk nog een Woonerf - Buiten bebouwde kom toevoegen ook. Of op zijn minst vermelden dat de huidige present binnen bebouwde kom moet gebruikt worden m 2013/2/19 Jo winfi...@gmail.com Op 19 februari 2013 17:43 schreef Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com het volgende: On Tuesday 19 February 2013 17:20:07 Jo wrote: Marc, Ik gebruik zonet je presets om een living_street te maken. highway bleef echter op residential staan. Ik zou er dit opzetten: highway=living_street maxspeed=20 traffic:zone=BE:urban Ligt elk (woon)erf wel in de bebouwde kom? Misschien niet, maar voor de weinige uitzonderingen zou ik het manueel op rural zetten. Het kan ook een keuzeitem zijn. Al heb ik het liefst dat 1 klik volstaat. source:maxspeed=living_street lijkt me overbodig. Dat volgt uit highway=living_street 'k Denk eerlijk gezegd niet dat het kwaad kan. Bij voorkeur zetten we voor elke maxspeed tag een source:maxspeed die de reden geeft. Ik ben nogal een minimalist en ik had niet eens de gewoonte om source:maxspeed=traffic_sign te gebruiken. Ik ga er steeds van uit dat diskruimte en netwerkbandbreedte schaars is. Misschien is dat vandaag de dag niet zo, maar wie zegt dat het altijd zo zal blijven? Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] The next step in How_to_map_a Benelux preset
I know that a lot of people are still working on the translation of the German webpage, but when I proposed to make such a Dutch page, I also thought that it would be nice to include some, what I assume, are typical Belgian objects. Since there is no defined tag-set for those items, as far as I know, we might start the discussion already on how we could tag them. After a consensus, they could be added to the How_to_map_a and the Benelux preset for JOSM. Things that come to my mind (in Dutch as I don't always know the proper English translation. (see below) Ik weet dat er nog een heel aantal mensen druk bezig zijn met de vertaling van de Duitse How_to_map_a pagina, maar ik zou al willen beginnen denken aan de volgende stap: het toevoegen van specifieke Belgische dingen. Het gaat hier om dingen waarvoor ik (en uit sommige reacties in Lier en via email anderen ook niet) geen passende oplossing hebben kwa tags. Als we hierover een consensus zouden kunnen bereiken kan die informatie toegevoegd worden aan zowel de web pagina als de preset. Op die manier gaat de preset zich echt profileren als iets voor de BE (en in mindere mate de NELUX :-) ). Ik dacht hierbij bv. aan - Frituur (Al eens door Sander aangebracht) - Taverne (vroeger al eens gevraagd -- amenity=tavern was toen de suggestie) - Brasserie - Feestzaal - Parochiezaal - Kantine van sportclub - Cafe (vs. amenity=cafe en amenity=pub) Misschien willen mensen die lijstje nog uitbreiden, geen probleem, maar voor dingen die ook buiten ons landje bruikbaar zijn, is de tagging mailing list meer aangewezen denk ik. (bv. verfijning van soorten kapelletjes e.d.) m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] The next step in How_to_map_a Benelux preset
geen probleem 2013/2/20 Ivo De Broeck ivo.debro...@gmail.com Marc, Het lijkt mij heel belangrijk dat de kwaliteit van How to map a hoger ligt dan de meeste paginas van de wiki ;-) Daarom graag: fase 1 : EERST volledige vertaling fase 2 : DAARNA nazicht (oa van de links zie en zie ook) fase 3 : EN DAN aanvullingen en wijzigingen (in overleg) Als we het anders gaan aanpakken word het 1 grote knoeiboel. Bedankt voor de suggesties, waar ik ondermeer vierkantshoeve (met multipolygoon), holle weg enz zou willen aan toe voegen. Op 20 februari 2013 11:15 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com het volgende: I know that a lot of people are still working on the translation of the German webpage, but when I proposed to make such a Dutch page, I also thought that it would be nice to include some, what I assume, are typical Belgian objects. Since there is no defined tag-set for those items, as far as I know, we might start the discussion already on how we could tag them. After a consensus, they could be added to the How_to_map_a and the Benelux preset for JOSM. Things that come to my mind (in Dutch as I don't always know the proper English translation. (see below) Ik weet dat er nog een heel aantal mensen druk bezig zijn met de vertaling van de Duitse How_to_map_a pagina, maar ik zou al willen beginnen denken aan de volgende stap: het toevoegen van specifieke Belgische dingen. Het gaat hier om dingen waarvoor ik (en uit sommige reacties in Lier en via email anderen ook niet) geen passende oplossing hebben kwa tags. Als we hierover een consensus zouden kunnen bereiken kan die informatie toegevoegd worden aan zowel de web pagina als de preset. Op die manier gaat de preset zich echt profileren als iets voor de BE (en in mindere mate de NELUX :-) ). Ik dacht hierbij bv. aan - Frituur (Al eens door Sander aangebracht) - Taverne (vroeger al eens gevraagd -- amenity=tavern was toen de suggestie) - Brasserie - Feestzaal - Parochiezaal - Kantine van sportclub - Cafe (vs. amenity=cafe en amenity=pub) Misschien willen mensen die lijstje nog uitbreiden, geen probleem, maar voor dingen die ook buiten ons landje bruikbaar zijn, is de tagging mailing list meer aangewezen denk ik. (bv. verfijning van soorten kapelletjes e.d.) m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
Als het niet duidelijk is of de naam van de gemeente, deelgemeente of gehucht moet gebruikt worden, dan ben ik voorstander van enkel de naam op de bushalte te vermelden. Mappen wat er op de grond is. Ik begrijp wel dat een dienstregeling waar vier keer Kerk staat niet echt duidelijk is en dat er daarom de naam van de gemeente wordt bijgezet. Maar die informatie kan je afleiden uit de positie van de halte. Als je dat wil kan je extreem zelfs Kerk, Laarstraat, 2840 Reet, Rumst, Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, België als naam van de bushalte schrijven, maar is dat nodig ? :-) m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
Tja, als ze dan nog altijd de juiste gemeente naam voor hun haltes moesten hebben... De halte van de Nieuwstraat in Rumst is een paar honderd meter opgeschoven en ligt daarmee in Terhagen. Ga je telkens de naam van de halte aanpassen ? m. 2013/2/22 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Als het niet duidelijk is of de naam van de gemeente, deelgemeente of gehucht moet gebruikt worden, dan ben ik voorstander van enkel de naam op de bushalte te vermelden. Mappen wat er op de grond is. Ik begrijp wel dat een dienstregeling waar vier keer Kerk staat niet echt duidelijk is en dat er daarom de naam van de gemeente wordt bijgezet. Maar die informatie kan je afleiden uit de positie van de halte. Als je dat wil kan je extreem zelfs Kerk, Laarstraat, 2840 Reet, Rumst, Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, België als naam van de bushalte schrijven, maar is dat nodig ? :-) m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
2013/2/23 Jo winfi...@gmail.com name:De_Lijn BENELUX preset is aangepast. Versie 0.9.1 bevat deze extra tag. @George, neen, het gaat om halte 106769, die lag vroeger meer naar het oosten, net buiten het bebouwde deel van Terhagen. Mogelijks in deelgemeente Rumst, hoewel de grens in OSM anders doet vermoeden, want zoveel meer naar het oosten lag die niet. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets Benelux
Dan zal het mappen van die busstops wel vooruit gaan. :-) De eerste reactie na de meeting was misschien niet bij iedereen even positief, maar ik heb de indruk dat de mensen wel blij zijn met die lopende vertaling van Hoe map ik een en Guy is ook blij met de presets. En jij nu ook. Hopelijk gebruiken er nog andere mensen hem. Ivm die relaties, wist ik eerst ook niet, maar met de default presets te bestuderen, zag ik die relaties erbij staan. Ik gebruikte de presets daarvoor ook niet veel, maar zelfs standaard zitten er al een paar leuke dingen bij. groeten m 2013/2/24 Jo winfi...@gmail.com Wow Marc, Bedankt om die presets uit te werken. Ik ga er binnenkort nog een paar aan toevoegen. Als je daar knoppen van maakt om op de taakbalk bovenaan te zetten, kan je plots wel heel vlot werken. Ik wist bijvoorbeeld niet dat je daar ook relaties mee kan (laten) aanmaken. Ik heb ook een knopje met een search gemaakt: R inview public_transport|amenity=waste_basket|amenity=bicycle_parking|amenity=shelter|highway=bus_stop|amenity=bench En dan klik 'k op dat knopje om die relatie aan te maken. Instant stop_area met alle bushalteattributen! Er is toch een hele nieuwe dynamiek ontstaan sinds de meeting. Het was echt wel tijd dat we (nog) eens bijeen kwamen. Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM promo
Ben, geen enkele van je links lijkt me te werken. De eerste 3 misschien omdat ik nog geen login heb (krijg gewoon about:blank, bij de 2 laatste kan de server de bestanden niet vinden. Wat ik een beetje jammer vond aan de flyers, is dat de nadruk precies nog ligt op het inbrengen van straten in onontgonnen (OSM-wise) gebieden. Dat terwijl het meeste werk dat nu in Europa gaat gaat om het aanvullen met huizen, POIs, straat eigenschappen (snelheden, parkeren, ...) en slecht nu en dan een straat in een nieuwe verkaveling. Is het niet een beetje misleidende reklame op deze manier ? Of de mensen een verkeerd idee geven van de huidige staat van de OSM map ? just my .5 cent m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB
In The Netherlands they will do something simular. Import the data on a dedicated layer in JOSM, and then copy to the data layer and upload. France idem (according to Jo). So still a lot of manual work. They also told me that there will be (or is) a plugin for JOSM to connect to datasources which can be used for this purpose. 2013/3/1 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Hi/Hallo, NL: Ik heb gisteren om de FLAGIS studiedag over crowdsourcing gesproken met iemand van AGIV over de adressen database. Sinds kort is deze database open voor het brede publiek en hij vertelde mij dat het geen enkel probleem is om de data te gebruiken binnen OSM. Nu ben ik zelf nogal tegen het importeren van data maar misschien kunnen we de adressen wel op andere creatieve manieren gebruiken en/of een layer voorzien in JOSM/Potlach om de data te verifieren en zo in OSM te mappen? Als je op deze manier building-outlines mapt kan je ineens het adres toevoegen ofzo??? Ik heb ook een goed jaar geleden een check gedaan tussen OSM en AGIV om vermiste straten of straten met verkeerde namen te detecteren maar dat resultaat mocht toen niet gepubliceerd worden. Nu mag dat natuurlijk wel! Ik zal ook eens kijken wat ik daar verder nog kan doen. Ik zou via de contactpersoon binnen AGIV ook een contactpersoon moeten krijgen bij URBIS om hetzelfde te kunnen doen binnen brussel? EN: I have spoken to someone from AGIV at the FLAGIS day about crowdsourcing about the address database. They have openend their data to the public and he told me it would be no problem to use the data in the OSM-community. I am not advocating importing the data but maybe we can use this in other creative ways. Maybe we can create a layer in JOSM/Potlach to show the data, to verify and map into OSM? This way you would be able to add address data while mapping building outlines. I also did some checks on OSM data using the AGIV data about a year ago but that result could not be published. Now this is possible. I will try and see if I can rerun these check to detect missing streets or incorrect streetnames. I also should be able to get a contact at URBIS, they also have openend their dataset and we should be able to do the same for brussels? Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com ben.abelshau...@ignotec.be http://twitter.com/xivk http://twitter.com/xivk%20 ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag for 'mutualiteiten' ?
You could document it on Hoe map ik een. I'm willing to add it to the Benelux presets . Both will hopefully lead to a common tagging in Belgium. As far as I know the CM offices are not tagged that often yet. At least when there is some form of standard tagging for it, it is easy to adapt it to another standard, in case a more popular appears one day. m On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: On 03/03/2013 03:49 PM, Jo wrote: What about health_insurance? If there is no proper tag yet, it's allowed to add new ones. It's better to do that and document it, than to use one that means something different. Jo Hey Jo, you're probably right, but the only thing I can think of is that this will probably never get momentum if I turn out to be the only one using it. I'm not really argumenting against this, I sometimes fail to see the point of uncommon tagging. So usefulness seems low. However, we need something more suitable for this type of POI's tx. Glenn Op 3 maart 2013 15:37 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be het volgende: On 03/03/2013 10:37 AM, Gilbert Hersschens wrote: Glen, ik vrees dat dit geen goede keuze is. In het Engels is een office in de context van gezondheidszorg de doctor's office en geen kantoor in de klassieke betekenis. Dit blijkt ook uit de omschrijving bij http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Healthcare_2.0#health_facility:type.3D.2A . Klopt, Maar ik had al zoveel gespamd die dag dat ik het niet had achter gestuurd, uiteindelijk was die idd ook niet erop. Blijkbaar kent de rest van de wereld niet echt de betekenis van een mutualiteit. Uiteindelijk is het maar dit geworden, idioot maar dat past het nog beste bij: name=CM Zemst office=insurance operator=Christelijke Mutualiteit ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag for 'mutualiteiten' ?
I use amenity=post_box operator=Christelijke Mutualiteiten so very similar to those of bpost On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I've been tagging those mailboxes where one can drop off notes with 'yellow' stickers on them, but only with note= tags up to now. I'd like to see a standard way of tagging those as well. Jo 2013/3/4 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com You could document it on Hoe map ik een. I'm willing to add it to the Benelux presets . Both will hopefully lead to a common tagging in Belgium. As far as I know the CM offices are not tagged that often yet. At least when there is some form of standard tagging for it, it is easy to adapt it to another standard, in case a more popular appears one day. m On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.bewrote: On 03/03/2013 03:49 PM, Jo wrote: What about health_insurance? If there is no proper tag yet, it's allowed to add new ones. It's better to do that and document it, than to use one that means something different. Jo Hey Jo, you're probably right, but the only thing I can think of is that this will probably never get momentum if I turn out to be the only one using it. I'm not really argumenting against this, I sometimes fail to see the point of uncommon tagging. So usefulness seems low. However, we need something more suitable for this type of POI's tx. Glenn Op 3 maart 2013 15:37 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be het volgende: On 03/03/2013 10:37 AM, Gilbert Hersschens wrote: Glen, ik vrees dat dit geen goede keuze is. In het Engels is een office in de context van gezondheidszorg de doctor's office en geen kantoor in de klassieke betekenis. Dit blijkt ook uit de omschrijving bij http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Healthcare_2.0#health_facility:type.3D.2A . Klopt, Maar ik had al zoveel gespamd die dag dat ik het niet had achter gestuurd, uiteindelijk was die idd ook niet erop. Blijkbaar kent de rest van de wereld niet echt de betekenis van een mutualiteit. Uiteindelijk is het maar dit geworden, idioot maar dat past het nog beste bij: name=CM Zemst office=insurance operator=Christelijke Mutualiteit ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Page on adding house numbers
I've tried to describe the methods I use to add house numbers (22.000 so far :-) ) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Escada/JOSM_and_Housenumbers I'll hope to translate the page in Dutch as well. regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Small landuse areas due to import - OK to merge ?
I made a walk in Hoge Vijvers, Arendonk yesterday. The area did not contain a lot of tracks and path yet. I started adding them based on my GPX tracks, Bing and AGIV. While doing this I noticed an area close to the Dutch border that has separate areas for each plot of trees and white space between them. We could expect paths there, but according to my notes this is not always the case. Is it OK to merge all those small areas together with the rest of the forest ? The area can be seen here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.366673707962036lon=5.106539726257324zoom=15 I expect it's caused by an import of Dutch data. m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets Benelux
Ik heb dierenarts toegevoegd, hoewel die ook al onder Facilities/Health/Veterinary voorkomt. Heb wel iets andere velden gekozen (name + operator, geen opening_hours) Opticien en apotheker komen ook al voor in de standaard lijst Shops/Other/Optician Facilities/Health/Pharmacy. Het lijkt mij een beetje zinloos om die hier ook toe te voegen. m. 2013/3/16 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Sorry! Ik had niet gezien dat ik onder ‘Gebouwen en monumenten’ moest kijken. ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** *Van:* Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* zaterdag 16 maart 2013 16:30 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets Benelux ** ** Voor kerken en kapellen zou de 'denomination' en 'religion' al toegevoegd moeten worden. Heb het net nog geprobeerd en dat lijkt toch te werken. ** ** Ik zal binnenkort dierenarts, apotheker en opticien toevoegen. ** ** ik ken geen methode om via de preset de knoop onmiddellijk aan de relatie toe te voegen. Het is niet nodig om het netwerk als tag aan de knoop toe te voegen. ** ** Ik zal toch eens werk moeten maken van het documenteren van het mappen van de wandelnetwerken. ** ** mvg ** ** m ** ** 2013/3/16 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Heb al veel plezier gehad aan die presets. Ze hadden al langer beschikbaar moeten zijn. Als er ooit aan verder gewerkt wordt, heb ik nog een paar ‘aanbevelingen’* *** ·Graag bij ‘Gezondheidssector’ ook apotheker en eventueel opticien ·Bij ‘Huisdieren-dieren’ graag ook de veearts. ·Bij ‘wandelknooppunt’ misschien ook voorzien om ineens het ‘netwerk’ in te brengen. ·Voor ‘Kerken en Kapellen’ al voorzien dat automatisch: amenity = place_of_worship, denomination = catholic, religion = christian ingevuld worden. Dat spaart tijd en voorkomt onvolledigheid. grt Guy Vanvuchelen *Van:* Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* zaterdag 16 februari 2013 8:44 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets Benelux Ik heb net gezien dat de presets nu via de Josm website beschikbaar zijn. Maar, blijkbaar is er nog iets verkeerd met de vertalingen. Op het moment dat je de preset installeert, krijg je 2 foutboodschappen. Als je telkens aangeeft dat je toch wil installeren, komt het daarna wel goed. Want als je daarna Josm herstart, verschijnen die foutboodschappen niet en werken de vertalingen wel. Ik gebruik zelf Josm 5697, bij een andere versie is het misschien anders.* *** Ik zal nog proberen er verder naar te kijken later op de dag, maar kan nog niets beloven I just noticed that the Benelux presets are now available from the JOSM site. However, there is something wrong with the translations. At the moment you install the plugin you get 2 error messages (JOSM 5697). When you twice confirm that you want to install the plugin anyhow, you can use them after a restart of JOSM. At startup time JOSM does not complain and the Dutch translations are available. I hope to look into this later on today, but cannot promise that. m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ** ** ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Missing parent tag
Ik merk dat er rond Rumst ook een heleboel van die fouten optreden. Ze willen nu voor de een of andere reden dat er overal route=bicycle wordt aan toegevoegd. Dat lijkt mij fout. zie bv. http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/error/252750050 waar ze inderdaad die extra tag als fix voorstellen (zoals André ook al opmerkte) en hier http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/errors/?item=2050 zie je dat er meer dan 22.000 van zulke fouten in Belgie zouden zijn. m 2013/3/21 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be In de buurt van Tienen vind ik, via Osmose, een hele hoop fouten. Het gaat om de melding ‘Missing parent tag’. Deze fout staat o.a. op Oplintersesteenweg, Dwarsstraat Tiensveld, Kopstraat, Vianderstraat, Houtemveldweg, … Een zekere kgross1, heeft waarschijnlijk met de beste bedoelingen een hoop informatie voor wegen ingebracht: Horse = yes Maxspeed = 70 Bicycle = yes Name = Oplintersesteenweg Motor_vehicle = yes Cycleway : track Access = yes Oneway = no Highway = tertiary ** ** In dit geval staat er als foutmelding: Missing parent tag Way 198290500 rawedit josm +route : bicycle ** ** Kan iemand me uitleggen wat hier fout gaat en hou ik dat kan oplossen. ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Missing parent tag
I created an issue for osmose/backend. I did not find any other contact information. 2013/3/21 André Pirard Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com On 2013-03-21 22:02, Marc Gemis wrote : Ik merk dat er rond Rumst ook een heleboel van die fouten optreden. Ze willen nu voor de een of andere reden dat er overal route=bicycle wordt aan toegevoegd. Dat lijkt mij fout. zie bv. http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/error/252750050 waar ze inderdaad die extra tag als fix voorstellen (zoals André ook al opmerkte) en hier http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/errors/?item=2050 zie je dat er meer dan 22.000 van zulke fouten in Belgie zouden zijn. m It looks like every way containing Bicycle = yes is affected. I checked one or mine with just highway= and name= Why Belgium? What change could possibly have that global effect ? Cheers, André. 2013/3/21 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be In de buurt van Tienen vind ik, via Osmose, een hele hoop fouten. Het gaat om de melding ‘Missing parent tag’. Deze fout staat o.a. op Oplintersesteenweg, Dwarsstraat Tiensveld, Kopstraat, Vianderstraat, Houtemveldweg, … Een zekere kgross1, heeft waarschijnlijk met de beste bedoelingen een hoop informatie voor wegen ingebracht: Horse = yes Maxspeed = 70 Bicycle = yes Name = Oplintersesteenweg Motor_vehicle = yes Cycleway : track Access = yes Oneway = no Highway = tertiary In dit geval staat er als foutmelding: Missing parent tag Way 198290500 rawedit josm +route : bicycle Kan iemand me uitleggen wat hier fout gaat en hou ik dat kan oplossen. Guy Vanvuchelen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Missing parent tag
I marked some as false positive near Rumst. I noticed that they were all reported on 2013-03-21. So probably some recent code change broke something. On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:05 AM, André Pirard Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: On 2013-03-22 05:27, Marc Gemis wrote : I created an issue for osmose/backend. I did not find any other contact information. I've sent them 25 false positive, do the same, everybody. Hopefully, they watch their program too. Those people are supposed to *teach* you something, not to learn from you! Since 6 months, OSMI is telling me this for place=neighbourhood : layer: errors_unknown_place_type error: unknown_place_type value: neighbourhood lastchange: 2012-09-02T14:02:21Z I wrote them, I put a remark on the wiki as requested (I was the only one on the page). No way! Cheers, André. 2013/3/21 André Pirard Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com On 2013-03-21 22:02, Marc Gemis wrote : Ik merk dat er rond Rumst ook een heleboel van die fouten optreden. Ze willen nu voor de een of andere reden dat er overal route=bicycle wordt aan toegevoegd. Dat lijkt mij fout. zie bv. http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/error/252750050 waar ze inderdaad die extra tag als fix voorstellen (zoals André ook al opmerkte) en hier http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/errors/?item=2050 zie je dat er meer dan 22.000 van zulke fouten in Belgie zouden zijn. m It looks like every way containing Bicycle = yes is affected. I checked one or mine with just highway= and name= Why Belgium? What change could possibly have that global effect ? Cheers, André. 2013/3/21 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be In de buurt van Tienen vind ik, via Osmose, een hele hoop fouten. Het gaat om de melding ‘Missing parent tag’. Deze fout staat o.a. op Oplintersesteenweg, Dwarsstraat Tiensveld, Kopstraat, Vianderstraat, Houtemveldweg, … Een zekere kgross1, heeft waarschijnlijk met de beste bedoelingen een hoop informatie voor wegen ingebracht: Horse = yes Maxspeed = 70 Bicycle = yes Name = Oplintersesteenweg Motor_vehicle = yes Cycleway : track Access = yes Oneway = no Highway = tertiary In dit geval staat er als foutmelding: Missing parent tag Way 198290500 rawedit josm +route : bicycle Kan iemand me uitleggen wat hier fout gaat en hou ik dat kan oplossen. Guy Vanvuchelen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [osmose-backend] Missing Parent Tag for all highways with bicycle = yes (#1)
This is the reply I got on my bug report to osmose. Do we have to locate those ways with route=bicycle ? m -- Forwarded message -- From: frodrigo notificati...@github.com Date: Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [osmose-backend] Missing Parent Tag for all highways with bicycle = yes (#1) To: osm-fr/osmose-backend osmose-back...@noreply.github.com Cc: marcgemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Missing parent tag is a statistical analysis. Osmose suggest to add route=bicycle because this tag value is already a key as bicycle=yes, and more over because there is more than 50 ways with route=bicycle + bicycle=yes in Belgium. Maybe we need to apply this analysis on relative value inside of just 50. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/issues/1#issuecomment-15319079 . ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [osmose-backend] Missing Parent Tag for all highways with bicycle = yes (#1)
I think anyone can remove them. Of course, it would be better to also contact whoever added them, so they do not make the same mistake again. Osmose seems to be rather stupid, and decides that if x number of objects has certain tag combinations, all objects that have one of the tags, should also have the others. It does not verify if the tag is appropriate for the object (node, way, relation). But it is still a valuable tool. So feel free to remove the route=bicycle if you have the time regards m On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:45 AM, André Pirard Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: On 2013-03-22 21:32, Marc Gemis wrote : This is the reply I got on my bug report to osmose. Do we have to locate those ways with route=bicycle ? m It makes no sense. route=bicycle is a tag for a relation, not for a way. It's very surprising that Osmose commands to repeat such a tag on ever cycling way !!! How could we identify a cycling route if all the cycling ways contained route=bicycle Either Osmose removes that test. Or the authors remove that tag (I bcc: one of them). Or I can remove 28 of them that I have ready after my selection. Your choice? Cheers, André. -- Forwarded message -- From: frodrigo notificati...@github.com Date: Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [osmose-backend] Missing Parent Tag for all highways with bicycle = yes (#1) To: osm-fr/osmose-backend osmose-back...@noreply.github.com Cc: marcgemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Missing parent tag is a statistical analysis. Osmose suggest to add route=bicycle because this tag value is already a key as bicycle=yes, and more over because there is more than 50 ways with route=bicycle + bicycle=yes in Belgium. Maybe we need to apply this analysis on relative value inside of just 50. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/issues/1#issuecomment-15319079 . ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] VMM Monitoringstations / Meetstations
Did anybody contact the VVM (Vlaamse Milieumaatschappij) before to obtain the location of their monitoring stations ? Heeft er al iemand in het verleden de VMM gecontacteerd om de coördinaten van hun meetstations te verkrijgen ? zie: http://luchtkwaliteit.vmm.be/ We zouden die meetstations dan ook weer een URL kunnen geven naar de pagina met de actuele resultaten (voorbeeldje beschreven op blog: http://funky-osm-foto.blogspot.be/2013/04/luchtkwaliteit.html) m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] (geen onderwerp)
Dat foutje is ondertussen al een paar dagen verholpen, maar doordat josm 14 alle plugins cached, kan je best zelf de cache leegmaken. Ter herinnering: Here is another tip when you want to test your wiki preset: JOSM caches the downloaded preset file for one week. In order to force an update, you can go to the JOSM settings directory [1] and delete the corresponding file in the cache directory. (You can remove the entire cache folder if you like.) [1] http://josm.openstreetmap.de/**wiki/Help/ResetPreferences#** Locatethesettingsfolderhttp://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/ResetPreferences#Locatethesettingsfolder 2013/4/8 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be Ik vind al geen DNS record terug voor die naam. Probeer deze eens: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Presets/BENELUXzip Glenn On 04/08/2013 01:57 PM, Guy Vanvuchelen wrote: Tot nu toe gebruikte ik in JOSM graag de Plug in ‘How to map a..’. ** ** Bij het starten van JOSM krijg ik nu echter een foutmelding: “Fout bij parsen van http://jos.openstreetmap.de/dosmfile?page:Presets/BENELUXzip=1: The element type “item” must be terminated bij the matching end-tag”/item”. ** ** Wie kan me hierbij helpen? ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Abandoned Railways / cycleways
While mapping my RWN walk near Hulshout / Westmeerbeek I noticed that there were 2 cycleways next to one another, running from north to south: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.063594818115234lon=4.8265814781188965zoom=16 One was simply mapped as highway=cycleway, the other had more tags and was also part of an RCN relation. Further investigation showed that the former used to be a railway=abandoned, but was changed to a cycleway in December 2012. The ways are pretty long, running from Herentals to Leuven. The abandoned railroad way has ID 116738269. I decided to reverse that way to railway=abandoned, but I'm not happy with it. It shows to parallel lines on a map (I know, don't tag for the renderer), but wouldn't it be better to add the railway=abandoned to the cycleway. ? Similar situation here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.06616973876953lon=4.476719498634338zoom=17 and here http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.1060394346714lon=4.379757642745972zoom=17 in this case I wonder how you can see it, no remains are left. So why two lines for an abandoned railway and the cycleway/footway on it ? Can't they be combined ? m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Abandoned Railways / cycleways
This means that the separate track should be removed for the 3 cases I listed, or not ? On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 2:31 PM, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.comwrote: On 2013-04-13 23:02, Marc Gemis wrote : ... So why two lines for an abandoned railway and the cycleway/footway on it ? Can't they be combined ? What to do is explained in the OSM wiki at ... Railwayshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Railways Abandoned - The track has been removed and the line may have been reused or left to decay but is still clearly visible, either from the replacement infrastructure, or purely from a line of trees around an original cutting or embankment. Use railwayhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway =abandoned http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dabandoned. Where it has been reused as a cycle path then add highwayhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway =cycleway http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dcycleway. Consider adding a end_datehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:end_date =* tag or more specifically a railway:end_datehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:end_dateaction=editredlink=1 =* tag. It applies even if it now looks like a cycleway or anything but if you can still clearly see where the railway has been. If Mapnik, Garmin or other doesn't display or use that correctly, they say that you must file a renderer bug. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Abandoned Railways / cycleways
For the first two examples there is no doubt that there are still remains of a railway, but I still wonder whether it makes much sense to leave the railway tag on this http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.1060394346714lon=4.379757642745972zoom=17 especially on the parking area and to a lesser extend in the first part parallel to Voetweg 32. If the line was not on the map, I would never have known that there has been a railway. I don't know of any visual clues there. Of course the Spoorweglaan gives away that there used to be a railway :-) On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote: No, highway and cycleway should not share any ways. The only thing which may be acceptable is reusing the same nodes for two different ways, but only if they are on exactly the same location, which is actually quite rare. In quite a lot of cases there will be an offset, or it will diverge a little bit from the original railway track. Ben On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: This means that the separate track should be removed for the 3 cases I listed, or not ? On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 2:31 PM, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.comwrote: On 2013-04-13 23:02, Marc Gemis wrote : ... So why two lines for an abandoned railway and the cycleway/footway on it ? Can't they be combined ? What to do is explained in the OSM wiki at ... Railwayshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Railways Abandoned - The track has been removed and the line may have been reused or left to decay but is still clearly visible, either from the replacement infrastructure, or purely from a line of trees around an original cutting or embankment. Use railwayhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway =abandoned http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dabandoned. Where it has been reused as a cycle path then add highwayhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway =cycleway http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dcycleway. Consider adding a end_datehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:end_date =* tag or more specifically a railway:end_datehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:end_dateaction=editredlink=1 =* tag. It applies even if it now looks like a cycleway or anything but if you can still clearly see where the railway has been. If Mapnik, Garmin or other doesn't display or use that correctly, they say that you must file a renderer bug. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address stats in Belgium
Your complain about street being placed in wrong cities, is exactly why we should use associatedStreet relations instead of repeating addr:street addr:city over and over on individual buildings. In that case you only have to correct it once, on the relation, and the data is corrected. But I'll admit that I've been to lazy to add associatedStreets recently, as nobody seems to care. And the tools support outside JOSM is not that great. Repeating the street name twice is completely useless IMHO. I think it is possible to combine lot's of house numbers and accuracy, at least I hope that's what I leave behind :-) m On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: On 04/15/2013 02:38 PM, JorenDC wrote: Hi, In December there was a thread (start: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/2012-December/003367.html) containing some numbers/stats. @Sander, *: is it possible to share your used method to pull these stats (or just pull them again) and publish them on a 'frequent' base (I'm not saying weekly, but what about +/- every 4 moths or so)? In that way we can see a bit of our progress regarding this 'project'. The method (overpass query) is mentioned in that link thread (Jo points it out). On the subject. I've been mapping a lot of housenumbers lately, verifying my data against AGIV data before committing to OSM... I can only conclude there is much work to be done, AGIV is far from recent concerning new built houses, and OSM itself has lots of issues regarding accuracy. I'm not too sure on the scientific significance of such a statistic either. I would more than love to see stats that compair quality of the entered addresses. (completeness , including postal code and other addr:* tags, number of corrections etc. ) I've been correcting a lot of mistakes and I start seeing a negative tendancy in it: The ones that have done a LOT of input but didn't care to quality check (validating even!) what they entered. I'll state this: I'm cleaning up far too much crap others leave behind, I'm far from perfect in my housenumbering too in this small village it's still a huge undertaking, especially on complex corners where some numbers of the same building belong to a different street. I have houses I've changed 3 times in a row after visiting. Moreover, I see some people tagging the next city name on a street, probably because they think it's in the next city, but OSM shouldn't be a guessing game or a race to enter the most addresses if that info is wrong. If someone has such an overpass query, I'm more than interested to see those results, the rest looks like bragging rights. The AGIV site is valuable , even though it's slow. It's great tool to verify what city a certain street belongs to. for example : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.998941lon=4.426396zoom=18layers=M De Kleine Parijsstraat belongs to Zemst, not Mechelen. If you look this up in nominatim, it will tell you it's in Mechelen, which is totally wrong. You will not find this street using AGIV in Mechelen. But someone decided this was Hombeek(Mechelen) instead. So the borders of Zemst where wrong as well as this was used to determine these.The street above that Boterstraat can be found in Mechelen, not in Zemst. Thanks to AGIV, I'm more certain when those cases present. ( You can still see the old cached tile in some zoom levels) But then again, I saw AGIV containing WRONG housenumbers too. Verification in the field (twice) confirmed that what I had in mind was matching reality. So it's like a triple check: a) know the place b) visit it c) check with AGIV d) map a decent hous e) be complete, using the plugins to add Country/postal code/streetname to an address node so the data is easily searchable later. I really, really have to plea to everyone to enter _better_ data than more , just instead of looking at the sheer number of address info/nodes entered. It's quickly getting tired when I have to keep cleaning up behind the top providers. I'll get off the soapbox now. Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address stats in Belgium
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I thought the consensus was that we repeat addr:street for each house but not the other information like addr:city, addr:postcode, addr:country and whatnot. Imagine what happens to the size of the DB (and all its derivatives like the planet files), if everybody starts doing that for each and every house/address in the world! Potlatch has its limitations, but by choosing to work with it, people indicate a willingness to live with those limitations. I can only hope the IDeditor will overcome those limitations one day and that all Potlatch users will migrate towards it when it does. Jo +1 We should not map for the renderer, nor for the (simpliest) editor. +1 also on not repeating the same data over and over. 2013/4/16 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com I use most of these plugins. But recently I started using them less, because now I convert my GPX waypoints to OSM data points automatically. The only thing I do not do is repeating the postal code over and over, but since you insist, I'll do that from now on. :-) Can you look at e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.16279363632202lon=4.425258636474609zoom=16an area I mapped this winter. Please let me know if you think it can be improved. Yes, the city and the postal code are only in the relation. Yes, I know I should use building=house more consistently. Yes, I know I could add sidewalk, lit, parking lane tags as I did (already partially) in http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.134501695632935lon=4.385626316070557zoom=16 Let me know if you think the data can be improved, as I'm willing to improve my tagging habits. regards m On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.bewrote: It doesn't matter where they are , you still have to put those tags on a relation, so they better be in the correct city to start with ... Wrong postal codes, wrong city I would rather _NOT_ have wrong ones than the 'close enough for me' type of data. My point was introducing wrong data I admit I'm not a fan of the associatedStreet relation. I just recently learned it makes it even easier for some to f#ck up my work by 'correcting' a streetRelation that wasn't broken. Now it's even more easy to destroy 'en mass' in a single mouse click. There are some amazing josm plugins (Address plugin, adress mapcss etc) to help you do this without pain. We are all repeating 'building=yes' on a building, it's not because we put millions of this on the map that this tag get's to be valued less now than before? It's because it's needed and gives useful info. Why would your thoughts be any different for the addr:street tag that carry much more useful info than a mere 'building=yes'. So no, I don't think we are 'repeating' data, we are detailing it as such ... I sometimes believe I'm the only one in Belgium using OSM data in a non-mapping fashion like geocoding. There are working JOSM plugins that make sure you'll never ever have to type the streetname, you just select the named road + addr node + building and press = shift-T See the Terracer plugin. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Terracer But also, the FixAddresses plugin. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/FixAddresses I just wished it supported AssociatedStreet relations, same goes for some of the finer mapCSS I see. I combined them all, and this gives me powerful view on the address situation in the target area. http://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/AddressValidatorstyle https://github.com/simon04/coloured-addresses.mapcss/raw/master/dist/coloured-addresses.mapcss http://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/Nonamestyle try them, you'll love the colors per street, very nice to spot problems on corners. Glenn On 04/15/2013 07:33 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: Your complain about street being placed in wrong cities, is exactly why we should use associatedStreet relations instead of repeating addr:street addr:city over and over on individual buildings. In that case you only have to correct it once, on the relation, and the data is corrected. But I'll admit that I've been to lazy to add associatedStreets recently, as nobody seems to care. And the tools support outside JOSM is not that great. Repeating the street name twice is completely useless IMHO. I think it is possible to combine lot's of house numbers and accuracy, at least I hope that's what I leave behind :-) m On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.bewrote: On 04/15/2013 02:38 PM, JorenDC wrote: Hi, In December there was a thread (start: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/2012-December/003367.html) containing some numbers/stats. @Sander, *: is it possible to share your used method to pull these stats (or just pull them again) and publish them on a 'frequent' base (I'm not saying
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address stats in Belgium
I never put address details on sheds or garages. The building=house is on the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Building page. That's as official as it can get for me. Also use building=apartment whenever I can/remember/wrote down. I did use AGIV for some of my more recent expeditions. Unfortunately, it did not help me in a few cases. I had numbers from mailboxes on the street, but didn't know the houses (in private area). AGIV had none of them. With my new workflow (address nodes generated from GPX waypoints), I first have them in a separate layer. I use the lasso tool to select all nodes in 1 street. Then add street (but could easily add city, country, postcode) as well to the whole selection. No need for any of the plugins. But I used them before (for the work in Aartselaar e.g.). A question regarding houses without numbers (e.g. churches, libraries, ...) The official address is e.g. Kerkstraat z/n How is that mapped ? addr:housenumber = z/n does not sound correct to me. m. On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: On 04/16/2013 05:41 AM, Marc Gemis wrote: I use most of these plugins. But recently I started using them less, because now I convert my GPX waypoints to OSM data points automatically. The only thing I do not do is repeating the postal code over and over, but since you insist, I'll do that from now on. :-) Can you look at e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?** lat=51.16279363632202lon=4.**425258636474609zoom=16http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.16279363632202lon=4.425258636474609zoom=16an area I mapped this winter. Please let me know if you think it can be improved. Yes, the city and the postal code are only in the relation. Some very nice work there, pretty detailed. Looks good on the map. That has been a lot of work by the looks of it. I'm impressed haven't checked with josm yet, but I will. I am going to dig deeper into the Nominatim scene concerning geocoding (=what is best for both map and other data use) , I'll come back on this. For me, the plugin's make me do it, since it's easy. I didn't do all the detailed work before knowing them. I would not recommend doing this manually per building without the things I mentioned (The mapcss helps the most). Yes, I know I should use building=house more consistently. Yes, I know I could add sidewalk, lit, parking lane tags as I did (already partially) in http://www.openstreetmap.org/?**lat=51.134501695632935lon=4.** 385626316070557zoom=16http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.134501695632935lon=4.385626316070557zoom=16 You mean building=yes (I don't use house, don't think it was 'official'). What I do for sure is mark building=garages and sheds and I remove all addr:* tags from them, as they clutter searching for an address. They make the data worse, and then others think it's an unnumbered building and start inventing numbers (seen that here!) , while all that lives in there are cars or lawnmowers. Let me know if you think the data can be improved, as I'm willing to improve my tagging habits. Cool! The only suggestion I can make is have an extra window in the browser open on the AGIV site, I found out I put my tags on the wrong side in a street using it. A very small one, I had the odd/even sides all wrong. There you can verify if what you enter makes sense, you just can't copy it over without some live visit -ever- as they are incomplete and wrong sometimes, and also don't always know about sub addresses (100b 110/1 etc). Glenn __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address stats in Belgium
I ended up adding all the shop tags on the building. It only works for buildings with only 1 shop/restaurant/pub/... m. On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: On 04/16/2013 11:01 AM, Marc Gemis wrote: Maybe I should start using the fixaddresses plugin I've been using the plugins terracer, building tool, etc. for over 1 1/2 year. I even wrote a page on it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/** wiki/User:Escada/JOSM_and_**Housenumbershttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Escada/JOSM_and_Housenumbers :-) But now that I have a python script to convert my GPX trails, they do not fit perfectly in my workflow. I start from nodes that are tagged with building=house and addr:housenumber=XXX (after importing my modified GPX trail). I still use the terrace plugin to split though. I do use the stylesheets too. If the nodes area already a building node, I understand why that messes things up. you will probably loose information when using terracer on them (there is some precedence). What I really like about it is that when selecting the trio (ctrl-select) street/addrnode/building(way) , after pressing SHIFT-T, it keeps the street selected, that saves you a click when doing the next building. Did you try looking up businesses represented as nodes in buildings with address information ? Nomatim does not understand this (I think). Should we map for Nomatim, not sure ... I just did this:century 21 compas , nominatim finds it right back but you're right from the results set it looks like it didn't pick up the housenumber of the building that encompasses it. bummer, as that could count for a implicit relation between both. There are still some duplicates in there on my fix list, like this take-away chinese restaurant: Xing Fu Lou There both building + node have housenumber, which I think I should remove on 1, but that was using the logic we just debunked. The other way around doesn't seem to function either : Brusselsesteenweg 86, Zemst, finds back the house but not the amenity/shop. The question now is, how can we 'fix' this? Duplicate address information will fix nominatim, but it messes up the map. We should defenitely not map for nominatim more than we map for the map. The difference is that nominatim is a lot more sensitive to the way data is presented/available than the map is. The latter is slightly more 'forgiving' as it's a visual thing, more than a content thing. So by nature it's more sensitive to this sort of situations. Glenn __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] VMM Air-monitoring stations - update
A week after I send VMM a mail with the question to receive a file with the coordinates of their monitoring stations, I received an answer. They pointed me to the 2011 year report that contains all monitoring stations. It's a PDF-file. So far I have copied all the data from the PDF-file into a spreadsheet. In the spreadsheet I added the URL, source references, and other tags needed in OSM (.e.g man_made = monitoring_station) I exported the file as CSV file (replaced the comma's with semi-colons) and imported the data into JOSM via the OpenData plugin. That plugin also converted the Lambert 1972 coordinates that VMM uses. I'm now in the process of reviewing the data in JOSM and uploading the stations one by one. I did 5 or so this morning, e.g. the one on the Graankaai in Roeselare. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.94561383128166lon=3.1543824076652527zoom=18Note that mapnik does not render them. You have to open your editor on the area. They will be rendered on openlinkmap (tomorrow I expect, that site is updated at midnight). Since at least the monitoring station in Boom is missing in the 2011 report, I'll do a check afterwards for new stations and will add them manually based on their website data. m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] URBis, Open!
Can't we contact the French and Dutch people that do similar things ? For The Netherlands, there is this (long running) forum thread on the BAG: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=18311p=1 They split the Db up in smaller (.osm) parts that can be imported in JOSM. Then a manual edit and upload. There is some discussion on the need of a dedicated user for the upload of the BAG data (required by the DWG data work group ?) m. On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.comwrote: I'm talking only about adresses. I'm not sure about the rest... but we should be very carefull with any imports. I think using the data more as a mapping guideline might be better in any situation compared to an actual automated import. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, eMerzh merz...@gmail.com wrote: So if i'm right, you are thinking about like tracing OSM over Urbis by hand? Isn't there a nicer method and more accurate? not that i want to import everything in bulk... but at least avoid the manual tracing or smth? i'm not that aware of what we can do with the format here :) On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have been working on this for AGIV also and I have emailed with someone from urbis and i think the license is ok. There is the need to mention the source but we should check with them if it is ok to put it on the wiki as a datasource. I was thinking about an extra layer that could be loaded into JOSM or any other editor showing the addresses already converted to the proper OSM tags. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com ben.abelshau...@gmail.be http://twitter.com/xivk http://twitter.com/xivk On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 5:20 PM, eMerzh merz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, some times aga there where a announce about the liberation of Urbis (the gis system of Brussels). And now, this is it, i've miss the announce but it seems to be available since the 1st april ...no jokes :p http://www.cirb.irisnet.be/catalogue-de-services/urbis/acces-aux-donnees The licence seems to be permissive and OSM compatible...(any confirmation on that?) http://www.cirb.irisnet.be/catalogue-de-services/urbis/licence-urbis-open-data/at_download/file So now , you know what's left to do? find a way to put all this stuff in OSM! What do you think is the best way? Yey for opendata ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Intro and invitation to Random Hacks of Kindness
just an idea as, unfortunately, I don't have the time to do this myself. So feel free to implement it. m On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.orgwrote: Hi Marc, I totally agree! Are you going to help out at Random Hacks of Kindness yourself or is this only an idea for us to implement? Would be great to collaborate :) Kind regards, Pieter On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: Pieter, My killer application to show them would be a single website that combines the following functionality: a) walking routes (both knooppunten and local routes) with distance as openwandelkaart.nl b) background of hikebikemap.de ( I love the hill shading) (and it's faster than openwandelkaart) c) route creation as on wandelknooppunt.be (not OSM based) d) tourist information d1) hotels, pubs, restaurants, attractions with links to their websites opening hours (see openlinkmap.org and http://www.netzwolf.info/kartografie/osm/time_domain/map_opening) d2) the direct link to mijnlijn for busses (see openlinkmap.org) d3) historic buildings, etc as in http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/ with images, wikipedia links (also in openlinkmap), protected monuments, etc. d4) picnic sites, benches, sidewalks, road quality, other information important to walking/hiking I would not focus on getting only their data into OSM, (nor De Lijn, nor Onroerend Erfgoed), but show an app that combines all this data with the data we have today. It's the combination of all this data that makes OSM great, not the individual pieces that each institute has themselves. just my .5 cent m. On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.bewrote: On 05/10/2013 02:03 PM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: Importing this data into OSM is never going to work I think, but just like the AGIV data, it can be used to aid mapping. This way we can get the data into OSM to a quality level even exceeding the original data. Something I'm sure data providers are interested in. Indeed, It would be a disaster importing AGIV data as-is , by itself its very valuable but after like housenumbering my town here I can positively confirm that it's not up to date with buildings newer than like 1/2 years and that it still contains plenty of errors (buildings too little/ too much / wrong housenumbers / incomplete ones (100 vs 100/1 vs 100/a etc). But to aid osm mapping and verifying, or doublechecking data, it sure helps, but imports will never be as well done as a human being would scrutinise the data more thoroughly. Glenn __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Intro and invitation to Random Hacks of Kindness
Glenn, did you take a look at wandelknooppunt.be ? It shows all the walking network nodes. You can click on the nodes and it compiles a route from that, following the walking network routes between the numbered nodes. A similar thing exists for cyclist. The user should be able to compose his/her route. That's what walking/cycling networks are for. this is not routing in the traditional sense where you only give start and end-point. I remember reading on this mailing list that it is great so see all the cycling/walking networks in Flanders. It is great that the data has been inserted, but now the data is shown in a boring way. You cannot interact with it. (i.e. compose a route). And the site that shows it does not let you visualize all the other important aspects for planning a walk / cycling trip. That's why I think it would be nice to show to Tourisme Vlaanderen, that all this data can be combined. You cannot beat Tourisme Vlaanderen to display all walking networks. They can do that themselves, and probably better, more complete and more up-to-date. Why would they donate their data to OSM ? If they (or someone else) can get more out of it (because there is other data as well), they might see benefits to donate data. I believe some of the sites I mention have their source code in the public domain. So you will probably find the way they treat the opening hours in some git repository. All data in the sites I mention is already in OSM, no need to access other sources. Opening hours is a tag in OSM, so the data can be inserted. There is somewhere a proposal to improve the current tagging, but that's more for monthly schemes. As usual, the data is far from complete. I'm not an entrepreneur, so I have no business plan at all :-) And maybe killer app is not the right wording for this, just my idea that the power is in the combinatie of the data, not in inserting a lot of one type of data and getting that back out. m m. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: Put some comments in line against web-etiquette My killer application to show them would be a single website that combines the following functionality: If you really want a killer App, you should make this in HTML5, which brings local storage (offline use) and other goodies to make it feel like an app on your smartphone, it's cross compatible , so Iphone maniaks can use it as wel as Android nuts. You only develop it once. a) walking routes (both knooppunten and local routes) with distance as openwandelkaart.nl b) background of hikebikemap.de ( I love the hill shading) (and it's faster than openwandelkaart) c) route creation as on wandelknooppunt.be (not OSM based) d) tourist information d1) hotels, pubs, restaurants, attractions with links to their websites opening hours (see openlinkmap.org and http://www.netzwolf.info/kartografie/osm/time_domain/map_opening) d2) the direct link to mijnlijn for busses (see openlinkmap.org) d3) historic buildings, etc as in http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/ with images, wikipedia links (also in openlinkmap), protected monuments, etc. d4) picnic sites, benches, sidewalks, road quality, other information important to walking/hiking I would not focus on getting only their data into OSM, (nor De Lijn, nor Onroerend Erfgoed), but show an app that combines all this data with the data we have today. It's the combination of all this data that makes OSM great, not the individual pieces that each institute has themselves. Pretty good idea, I could actually do this, just trying to get my head around the good old 'time' problem. points a, d1, d2, d3, d4 could be easily done. That's what amenity's are for. Extracting the OSM data to support this is quite trivial with Overpass API. The opening hours is probably a more difficult part to tackle, there are plenty of sites that deliver this, but where that data comes from, if it is accurate and up to date is a big '?'-mark. I'm sure OSM data isn't as detailed enough for this. Concerning points: b and c, that will require figuring out where that background comes from and look into some policies. Route creation, I'm not sure why you mention not OSM based, but what I do know is that there are quite some awesome open source routing implementations around that could generate this.. Perhaps I don't quite get your idea behind it (Do we 'invent' some routes, or do we just stock up known trails to follow). The only non-technical thing I'm wondering about is , do you have some sort of business idea behind it. If it were self-sufficient, so if in some way a business model could make this pay for itself (in terms of computer power behind it). Would love to hear it. But in essence, it's just taking the very best stuff out of those different sites and mash it into something better. Glenn
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Re : Do we have legislation in Belgium to stop internet vandalism?
It would be nice to have a way to get notified of e.g. the ten first edits of a user in a certain area Right now, I monitor an area from Antwerp to Mechelen and Sint-Niklaas to Lier for all changes via http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/scripts/rss.php?bbox=4.10,51.00,4.67,51.30 For new names I take a closer look at what they did. When Polyglot passes by I skip the changelist :-) I do this since a couple of months and haven't seen anything irregular so far. A couple of newcomers using Id over the past week. m On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: Is this the first time we have this problem? Maybe it is a sign that the visibility of OSM in Belgium is finally increasing a bit! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.bewrote: On 05/17/2013 09:44 AM, Julien Fastré wrote: Hello, My forêt question is: will the belgian law apply? Julien Envoyé depuis mon téléphone Jo winfi...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi, I received a question from Henning from the DWG asking whether we have legislation in Belgium which can be used to warn off people committing vandalism on our data. There is somebody in Belgium who thinks it's funny to use highways to draw letters and symbols over the map: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/File:Vandalism_20130516.**pnghttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Vandalism_20130516.png Jo Best action is to swiftly get his ID blocked using the appropriate channels or in IRC, this gets done quickly when requested. This will probably happen another 2/3 times and then he will give up. The most important thing is stop him before he starts to have fun. Glenn __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Re : Do we have legislation in Belgium to stop internet vandalism?
Don't tell me my changesets are too big... I try to keep them smaller than a few months ago, but I also try to not overflow the history with many small changes. No, it's just that I know you're not a vandal :-) although ... dropping all those bus icons all over the map :-) On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/5/17 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com It would be nice to have a way to get notified of e.g. the ten first edits of a user in a certain area Indeed. Right now, I monitor an area from Antwerp to Mechelen and Sint-Niklaas to Lier for all changes via http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/scripts/rss.php?bbox=4.10,51.00,4.67,51.30 For new names I take a closer look at what they did. When Polyglot passes by I skip the changelist :-) Don't tell me my changesets are too big... I try to keep them smaller than a few months ago, but I also try to not overflow the history with many small changes. I do wonder what is going to happen once we'll start integrating all that wonderful UrbIS data we have at our disposal now... Pnorman has been irritating the French while they were adding the data from their cadastre (and vice versa, I'm sure :-) Oddly nobody blocked me yet for adding hundreds and hundreds of bus stops, but then each and every one is vetted manually and there are other improvements as well. I do this since a couple of months and haven't seen anything irregular so far. A couple of newcomers using Id over the past week. I'm glad there are not all too many actual vandals on OSM. They became a real plague on Wiktionary and probably still are. I gave up on moderating there. Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] historic=monument
Apparently, the tag historic=monument is used incorrectly in a lot of cases. According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments (in German) and the OSM definition, it should only be used if the following conditions are fulfilled: a) a large construction (e.g. a building) b) you should be able to walk in/on/through it c) dedicated to a person or an event this means that we won't have many monuments in Belgium, and we should retag them. Some examples (also see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments for more examples) a) for smaller items remembering persons: historic=memorial b) any other historic tag, such as building, yes, tank, castle,... c) man_made=windmill, watermill and historic=yes d) for items protected by the government: heritage=4 + additional tags. Using http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments I have been retagging some objects, and will continue to do so, but sometimes I have no idea what the item is. Maybe there is someone interested in this material that wants to do this too ? Blijkbaar wordt de tag historic=monument veel gebruikt, maar gewoonlijk voor de verkeerde redenen. Volgens de wiki and de makers van gesichtskarten mag de tag enkel gebruikt worden indien aan de volgende eisen voldaan is (zie ook http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments (Duits)) a) een grote constructie (bv. een gebouw) b) je moet er in/op/door kunnen wandelen c) het moet opgericht zijn te nagedachtenis van een persoon of een gebeurtenis. Indien dit niet het geval is moet je een andere tag gebruiken. Zie ook http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments voor andere voorbeelden a) kleinere objecten ter nagedachtenis van persoon/gebeurtenis: historic=memorial b) andere waarden voor de historic tag zoals yes, building, tank, castle, ... c) voor beschermde monumenten heritage=4 + verdere beschrijving van het item hiervoor kan je ook de BENELUX presets voor JOSM gebruiken d) man_made=windmill, watermill, ... Je vindt alle historic monumenten op http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments , op het hoogste zoomniveau zie je enkel aantallen, bij het inzoomen zie je de individuele items. De voorbije dagen heb ik er al een aantal gewijzigd, maar soms is er gewoon te weinig informatie om te weten hoe het moet gecorrigeerd worden. Dus als je niet weet wat doen op deze regenachtige, herfstige meidag ... Kijk eens of er bij jouw in de buurt geen monumenten staan. m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=monument
Bedankt Gilbert Guy. Thanks a lot Gilbert Guy 2013/5/20 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Ik heb de wijde omgeving van Tienen nagekeken. Op een paar gevallen na, die ik niet ken, is het aangepast. ** ** ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** *Van:* Gilbert Hersschens [mailto:gherssch...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 20 mei 2013 11:25 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=monument ** ** Ik heb de pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:NL:How_to_map_a:M#Monument al even aangepast. ** ** Gilbert ** ** 2013/5/20 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Apparently, the tag historic=monument is used incorrectly in a lot of cases. According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments (in German) and the OSM definition, it should only be used if the following conditions are fulfilled: ** ** a) a large construction (e.g. a building) b) you should be able to walk in/on/through it c) dedicated to a person or an event ** ** this means that we won't have many monuments in Belgium, and we should retag them. Some examples (also see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments for more examples)*** * ** ** a) for smaller items remembering persons: historic=memorial b) any other historic tag, such as building, yes, tank, castle,... c) man_made=windmill, watermill and historic=yes d) for items protected by the government: heritage=4 + additional tags.*** * ** ** Using http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments I have been retagging some objects, and will continue to do so, but sometimes I have no idea what the item is. Maybe there is someone interested in this material that wants to do this too ? ** ** ** ** ** ** Blijkbaar wordt de tag historic=monument veel gebruikt, maar gewoonlijk voor de verkeerde redenen. Volgens de wiki and de makers van gesichtskarten mag de tag enkel gebruikt worden indien aan de volgende eisen voldaan is (zie ook http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments (Duits)) ** ** a) een grote constructie (bv. een gebouw) b) je moet er in/op/door kunnen wandelen c) het moet opgericht zijn te nagedachtenis van een persoon of een gebeurtenis. ** ** Indien dit niet het geval is moet je een andere tag gebruiken. Zie ook http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments voor andere voorbeelden ** ** a) kleinere objecten ter nagedachtenis van persoon/gebeurtenis: historic=memorial b) andere waarden voor de historic tag zoals yes, building, tank, castle, ... c) voor beschermde monumenten heritage=4 + verdere beschrijving van het item hiervoor kan je ook de BENELUX presets voor JOSM gebruiken d) man_made=windmill, watermill, ... ** ** Je vindt alle historic monumenten op http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments , op het hoogste zoomniveau zie je enkel aantallen, bij het inzoomen zie je de individuele items. De voorbije dagen heb ik er al een aantal gewijzigd, maar soms is er gewoon te weinig informatie om te weten hoe het moet gecorrigeerd worden. Dus als je niet weet wat doen op deze regenachtige, herfstige meidag ... Kijk eens of er bij jouw in de buurt geen monumenten staan. ** ** m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ** ** ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=monument
Nice job, Gilbert ! At this moment, there are no monuments left in the Provinces Antwerpen and Limburg (above the line Brussels-Leuven). m 2013/5/22 Gilbert Hersschens gherssch...@gmail.com De duitstalige pagina is intussen naar het Engels vertaald (dan hebben niet-Vlamingen er ook wat aan). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments Gilbert 2013/5/20 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Bedankt Gilbert Guy. Thanks a lot Gilbert Guy 2013/5/20 Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be Ik heb de wijde omgeving van Tienen nagekeken. Op een paar gevallen na, die ik niet ken, is het aangepast. ** ** ** ** Guy Vanvuchelen ** ** *Van:* Gilbert Hersschens [mailto:gherssch...@gmail.com] *Verzonden:* maandag 20 mei 2013 11:25 *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=monument ** ** Ik heb de pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:NL:How_to_map_a:M#Monumental even aangepast. ** ** Gilbert ** ** 2013/5/20 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Apparently, the tag historic=monument is used incorrectly in a lot of cases. According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments (in German) and the OSM definition, it should only be used if the following conditions are fulfilled: ** ** a) a large construction (e.g. a building) b) you should be able to walk in/on/through it c) dedicated to a person or an event ** ** this means that we won't have many monuments in Belgium, and we should retag them. Some examples (also see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments for more examples)* *** ** ** a) for smaller items remembering persons: historic=memorial b) any other historic tag, such as building, yes, tank, castle,... c) man_made=windmill, watermill and historic=yes d) for items protected by the government: heritage=4 + additional tags.* *** ** ** Using http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments I have been retagging some objects, and will continue to do so, but sometimes I have no idea what the item is. Maybe there is someone interested in this material that wants to do this too ? ** ** ** ** ** ** Blijkbaar wordt de tag historic=monument veel gebruikt, maar gewoonlijk voor de verkeerde redenen. Volgens de wiki and de makers van gesichtskarten mag de tag enkel gebruikt worden indien aan de volgende eisen voldaan is (zie ook http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments (Duits))** ** ** ** a) een grote constructie (bv. een gebouw) b) je moet er in/op/door kunnen wandelen c) het moet opgericht zijn te nagedachtenis van een persoon of een gebeurtenis. ** ** Indien dit niet het geval is moet je een andere tag gebruiken. Zie ook http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments voor andere voorbeelden ** ** a) kleinere objecten ter nagedachtenis van persoon/gebeurtenis: historic=memorial b) andere waarden voor de historic tag zoals yes, building, tank, castle, ... c) voor beschermde monumenten heritage=4 + verdere beschrijving van het item hiervoor kan je ook de BENELUX presets voor JOSM gebruiken d) man_made=windmill, watermill, ... ** ** Je vindt alle historic monumenten op http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments , op het hoogste zoomniveau zie je enkel aantallen, bij het inzoomen zie je de individuele items. De voorbije dagen heb ik er al een aantal gewijzigd, maar soms is er gewoon te weinig informatie om te weten hoe het moet gecorrigeerd worden. Dus als je niet weet wat doen op deze regenachtige, herfstige meidag ... Kijk eens of er bij jouw in de buurt geen monumenten staan. ** ** m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ** ** ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=monument
Update: de monumenten (volgens mijn interpretatie van OSM definitie): - Ijzertoren - Albert I Monument - Monument voor de intergeallieerden Twijfel bij - De leeuw van Waterloo (als je de berg erbij rekent, kan je er op lopen anders niet) - Atomium (Niet echt ter herdenking gebouwd) De anderen zijn of te klein (Calvarieberg, Zwevegem, ...) of niet opgericht/gebouwd ter herdenking van feit/persoon. Bv. Kazerne Dossin was er al. Eben-Ezer is niet ter herdenking van persoon, evenement Waarschijnlijk kan je wel al de objecten in deze lijst terug vinden bij onroerend erfgoed, misschien zelfs beschermd (dan krijgen ze nog eens heritage=4) Maar nogmaals, dit is mijn interpretatie. m 2013/5/23 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com weer wat bijgeleerd :-) De meesten lijken me inderdaad monumenten. Zyklopensteine echter niet, dat is historic=stone denk ik. Het witte kinderbos is een moeilijke, omdat er geen steen bij te pas komt. De Meense Poort is volgens mij een combinatie van historic=memorial voor de platen met de namen (tag node in gebouw ?) en historic=city_gate voor de poort (tag op gebouw) zelf. Ik denk toch dat de poort er al stond voor WO I en dus niet gebouwd is ter nagedachtenis van de gesneuvelden. Het grootste probleem is dat monument in het Nederlands niet overeenkomt met monument in OSM (zelfs het Engelse Monument komt niet overeen vrees ik). Zoals steeds zal er een grijze zone zijn, waar de ene het groot genoeg vindt, en de andere niet. Ik ga nu niet op kruistocht om ze allemaal te bannen hoor. Bij twijfel laat ik de tag gewoon staan :-) Een standbeeld vind ik zelf ook een moeilijke. Enkel historic=memorial, of ook nog tourism=artwork, artwork_type=statue (of enkel dat laatste ?) m 2013/5/23 Chris Van Bael chris.van.b...@gmail.com 2013/5/23 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Ik betwijfel of er in België wel monumenten zijn (volgens de OSM definition) of het moest de Leeuw van Waterloo zijn... ? Wikipedia heeft een lijst van monumenten in Belgie: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorie:Monument_in_Belgi%C3%AB Zijn verscheidene van die toch geen monument volgens de definitie? - Koning Albert 1 monument - Monument voor de intergeallieerden - Atomium (ter ere van de Expo 58?) - De sjouwer ...? ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address Problems and Osmose...
I don't see which checkbox corresponds to the addresses. Hopefully they are smart enough to look at the associated street relation as well (unlike another quality control tool). Too bad they do not understand that for walking networks you can have a relation with 1 member. Now I have to click away all those false positives I've introduced. m. On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:50 PM, eMerzh merz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, i don't know if everybody knows osmose ( osmose.openstreetmap.fr ) : a OSM QA tool. While i was talking about the integration of urbis with the osmose devs, they told me that nearly half (ok might less than that) of the DB of errors are in fact Addresses errors in Belgium . Like here : http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?zoom=13lat=50.83942lon=3.69074layers=BFFT I was baffled so if you're bored, :) let's fix this :) Regards, eMerzh ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address Problems and Osmose...
Why do they complain about access = no @ (weight 3.5) ? I thought this was an accepted way of tagging conditional restrictions. Is there another way ? m On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:00 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: I don't see which checkbox corresponds to the addresses. Hopefully they are smart enough to look at the associated street relation as well (unlike another quality control tool). Too bad they do not understand that for walking networks you can have a relation with 1 member. Now I have to click away all those false positives I've introduced. m. On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:50 PM, eMerzh merz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, i don't know if everybody knows osmose ( osmose.openstreetmap.fr ) : a OSM QA tool. While i was talking about the integration of urbis with the osmose devs, they told me that nearly half (ok might less than that) of the DB of errors are in fact Addresses errors in Belgium . Like here : http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?zoom=13lat=50.83942lon=3.69074layers=BFFT I was baffled so if you're bored, :) let's fix this :) Regards, eMerzh ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address Problems and Osmose...
thanks ! On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:33 AM, eMerzh merz...@gmail.com wrote: the checkbox with addresses is here : http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?zoom=15lat=50.94194lon=3.06984layers=BFFTitem=2060level=1,2 if the link isn't ok, you have to set level 1 and 2 then the item in fr is numéros de rue you might find some helps about the errors here : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmose/erreurs http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/?item=2060 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: Why do they complain about access = no @ (weight 3.5) ? I thought this was an accepted way of tagging conditional restrictions. Is there another way ? m On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:00 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: I don't see which checkbox corresponds to the addresses. Hopefully they are smart enough to look at the associated street relation as well (unlike another quality control tool). Too bad they do not understand that for walking networks you can have a relation with 1 member. Now I have to click away all those false positives I've introduced. m. On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:50 PM, eMerzh merz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, i don't know if everybody knows osmose ( osmose.openstreetmap.fr ) : a OSM QA tool. While i was talking about the integration of urbis with the osmose devs, they told me that nearly half (ok might less than that) of the DB of errors are in fact Addresses errors in Belgium . Like here : http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?zoom=13lat=50.83942lon=3.69074layers=BFFT I was baffled so if you're bored, :) let's fix this :) Regards, eMerzh ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers m. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really help us a lot either. Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data? Jo 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Hi Again, Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand. *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.* Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015 but that descision was still to be made... Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response. Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.org wrote: Hi Ben, there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince AGIV to start using the right ones: http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/ Kind regards, Pieter On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: Bad news! The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence. The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on it and not copying would be ok... In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-) I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just geocoding on the main OSM-website. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com mailto:ben.abelshausen@gmail.**comben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Aldi GPS OpenStreetMap
via het Nederlandse forum / from the Dutch forum: http://nl.aldi.be/aldi_outdoornavigatiesysteem_48_5_989_11671.html ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] address cleanup
The past couple of days, I've been cleaning up quite some addresses where I made mistakes. My apologies, I'll try to be more careful in the future. And I'll adapt the way I map POIs. But I also encountered quite a lot of housenumbers where the mapper didn't bother to add the street. And now I understand what Glenn was talking about a couple of weeks ago. Look at http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/?zoom=17lat=51.00903lon=4.4241layers=BFFTitem=2060level=1,2,3 None of those house numbers have a street name. However, somehow, Nomatim seems to work out most houses correctly. I assume it takes the street that is closest to the house. However for Zepstraat 1, Mechelen, it finds the wrong house. So I would like to repeat Glenn's statement: please try to add complete address information. It's a small effort to add the streetname together with the housenumber. It's great that all those numbers are added, but I'm not sure all clients are as smart as Nomatim. This might also be part of reason that Belgium is scoring bad in the osmose tests. I'll try to correct the situation in that area later. Time to go to bed now. regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] URBis, Open! - relation 2966021 (suite)
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Pierre Parmentier pierrecparment...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, 1. Relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2966021 updated. Please check. 2. Did we agree to include the node with the street number in the relation? all buildings with housenumbers and individual housenumbers go in the relation 1. Street number : do we add a node with the number or do we tag it in the way building/house? Usually the housenumber is placed as an attribute on the building, not as a separate node. 1. What to do with a street located in more than one city (e.g. from one commune/gemeente to another commune/gemeente? You need multiple associatedStreet relations for this. 1 associatedStreet relation for street, city, postalcode. If any of those values changes, you need a different associatedStreet relation 1. What do we do with a building way located at the junction of two highways; quite often there is a steet num The Building has to be split, so you can give each part a different number and put it in another associatedStreet relation At least this is what I have learned from Jo (Polyglot) I do have a problem with POIs (shops, banks, etc.). When they are mapped as nodes and placed inside a building outline, they do not inherit the address information. You can a) duplicate all street information on the POI, but there will be complaints that the housenumber is appearing multiple times in the associatedStreet b) put the POI information on the entire building. But this does not always corresponds to the reality. Only a part of the building might be a shop, And what with multiple POIs in this case ? regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Street with 2 names
The streetname can be street A - street B Osmose complains when you have street A;street B You can create 2 associated street relations, one for each street + city + postcode + houses on that side or if you do not create associated street relations, the name of the street + city + postcode on the houses on that side. Examples with associated Street relations http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.116914lon=4.395304zoom=18layers=M Pierstraat - Reetsesteenweg (Reet Aartselaar) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.16592lon=4.42274zoom=17layers=M Jachtlaan (Antwerpen Edegem) same name in this case, but different cities postcodes m On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Teddy e...@swing.be wrote: Hello, What to do if a street have 2 names ? One side is in a town and the other side in another town ? Thanks. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Street with 2 names
With this overpass query http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/ip you can see all streets with name:left tag. I noticed there is one near Mol (Bronstraat, Hofstede) without a name tag, only name:left and name:right. Searching for those streets in Nominatim returns no answer (for that street). So my advice is to add a name tag as well. (Yes, I know do not tag for the renderer, but using an undocumented tag, which is not recognized by Nominatim is pretty useless (even when it's used 23.000 time -- see taginfo)) m On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.comwrote: Both names are equal, so al_name isn't used indeed. Here's some other example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/94237553 (inside the same town this time). But without associatedStreet relations. 2013/6/4 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com There's actually name:left and name:right to tell which side is which. alt_name isn't used for this. Ben On Tuesday 04 June 2013 16:04:07 eMerzh wrote: What about using alt_name or smth? On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: The streetname can be street A - street B Osmose complains when you have street A;street B You can create 2 associated street relations, one for each street + city + postcode + houses on that side or if you do not create associated street relations, the name of the street + city + postcode on the houses on that side. Examples with associated Street relations http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.116914lon=4.395304zoom=18layers=M Pierstraat - Reetsesteenweg (Reet Aartselaar) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.16592lon=4.42274zoom=17layers=M Jachtlaan (Antwerpen Edegem) same name in this case, but different cities postcodes m On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Teddy e...@swing.be wrote: Hello, What to do if a street have 2 names ? One side is in a town and the other side in another town ? Thanks. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] UrbIS - streetnumbers
Hi Anton, It seems that you understood the associated Street relation. You can now add additional information to the relation such as addr:city, addr:postalcode. I usually also add addr:country=BE I never add buildings without an explicit housenumber, thus I would remove the building under the numbers 103-109 from the relation. I thought that either JOSM or OSMOSE complains about this. As for the south part of Place de la Patrie. In the relationstab of JOSM, you can click on the relation. (Select), then press the edit button at the bottom of that panel. A dialog with the assoc.street opens. You can now select any element in the main edit window. It will appear on the right side of the dialog. Press any of the four top buttons in the middle. The element will be placed in the list on the left. Close the dialog. The element is now part of the relation. I already did it for the south side Happy mapping. m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Street with 2 names
Yes, I know that JOSM complains that the street is in two relations. Osmose as well. There I report it as false positive. Osmose also complains that there are many names in the relation. I also mark those as false positive. I have no other solution. m On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Gilbert Hersschens gherssch...@gmail.comwrote: PS: when I add such a street to their associated street relations (obviously 2 separate relations), the JOSM validator complains. Shouldn't that be fixed ? Gilbert On 5 June 2013 19:55, Gilbert Hersschens gherssch...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Marc, I already fixed it. Wasn't sure which name to use, but I saw in other examples that both names are combined to form the streetname. In this case Bronstraat - Hofstede. Gilbert On 5 June 2013 07:15, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: With this overpass query http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/ip you can see all streets with name:left tag. I noticed there is one near Mol (Bronstraat, Hofstede) without a name tag, only name:left and name:right. Searching for those streets in Nominatim returns no answer (for that street). So my advice is to add a name tag as well. (Yes, I know do not tag for the renderer, but using an undocumented tag, which is not recognized by Nominatim is pretty useless (even when it's used 23.000 time -- see taginfo)) m On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.comwrote: Both names are equal, so al_name isn't used indeed. Here's some other example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/94237553 (inside the same town this time). But without associatedStreet relations. 2013/6/4 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com There's actually name:left and name:right to tell which side is which. alt_name isn't used for this. Ben On Tuesday 04 June 2013 16:04:07 eMerzh wrote: What about using alt_name or smth? On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: The streetname can be street A - street B Osmose complains when you have street A;street B You can create 2 associated street relations, one for each street + city + postcode + houses on that side or if you do not create associated street relations, the name of the street + city + postcode on the houses on that side. Examples with associated Street relations http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.116914lon=4.395304zoom=18layers=M Pierstraat - Reetsesteenweg (Reet Aartselaar) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.16592lon=4.42274zoom=17layers=M Jachtlaan (Antwerpen Edegem) same name in this case, but different cities postcodes m On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Teddy e...@swing.be wrote: Hello, What to do if a street have 2 names ? One side is in a town and the other side in another town ? Thanks. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed
The postal_code tag on the street is taken into account almost immediately. Even after several days, the one on associated street does not work.I know that somewhere you can see the backlog of nominatim, but forgot where. The FAQ does not mention associatedStreet: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/FAQ I don't know how to add a post code as polygon (as mentioned in the FAQ). I've tried with placing it on an administrative boundary (Rumst), but that did not help for the 12. The is_in worked for some streets in Hombeek (was using the postcode from Zemst on some, but not all street), but did not work for the ones in Hingene. When you dig deeper into Nominatim, the output of http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=40331960 might become clearer, but I don't understand all of it (yet). m On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/6/11 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be On 06/11/2013 05:29 AM, Marc Gemis wrote: An update on my problem with postalcode 12 appearing on some roads in Rumst when you do a seach on openstreetmap.org. I posted my question in the help forum. One of the nominatim maintainers (I assume), dropped the node that was tagged with postal code 12. It was somewhere in the nominatim database and could not be removed by editing via Josm (or another editor). Since then I found that nominatim often returns the wrong postal code for streets in Hingene. I assume it is caused by their closed node algorithm, which return a 9000 code, simply because it's the nearest node with a postal_code. I solved this by adding a postal_code tag with the correct number on the street itself. An associated street relation with the correct number does not work. Marc, Tx for the information, I'm compiling nominatim documentation about the inner workings and this goes against everything I learned so far, especially the associated street relation not taking precedence in this case is quite surprising to me with what I know so far. Very interesting. Now I know for sure that I don't know it all yet. By going to the nominatim code and the database schema's I was about to debunk my own words in the past, now I need to re-reconsider. (I've set up several myself and use them in production). Seems that noone can really explain in simpel steps how the inner things work so I was giving it a try. Really appreciate you taking the time to share this. Could it be that Nominatim is caching for too long and that it takes a long time to take update information in OSM in account? Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed
I just did the test. Immediately after uploading, the DIjkstraat got postcode 2880 (search Nominatim). Sas not yet. They were uploading in the same changeset : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512278 Sas is done with an associatedStreet with addr:postcode 2880, Dijkstraat with postal_code 2880 on the street itself feel free to try Sas, Bornem anytime to see whether it updated Then I also tried adding addr:postcode 2880 on house nr 2 in Sas. I thought that in the past it updated rather quickly when I did this, but not this time. changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512343 m On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and let you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880 (Bornem). I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street. m. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will be. btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data. I've notices some roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) but the wrong postal code (hence also the name). The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat and Kleine Parijsstraat. See http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14lat=50.99405lon=4.44663layers=BTTuser=Glenn%20Plasage=6%20month When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you can in hombeek (Mechelen). Sometimes they exist in both of course, not these 2 though. One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which is our duty to add, but at that moment also consider adding more detail using key wikipedia=language:Page. Take a look at this node http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183 having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set. Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipedia and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia for more information. You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how this is used. It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, but that only has about 12 of those currently in it. Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are interested in details. there is a plugin as well : http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed
and just after I sent the previous mail, house nr 2 got postal code 2880. Sas, Bornem still give 9140. m On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: I just did the test. Immediately after uploading, the DIjkstraat got postcode 2880 (search Nominatim). Sas not yet. They were uploading in the same changeset : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512278 Sas is done with an associatedStreet with addr:postcode 2880, Dijkstraat with postal_code 2880 on the street itself feel free to try Sas, Bornem anytime to see whether it updated Then I also tried adding addr:postcode 2880 on house nr 2 in Sas. I thought that in the past it updated rather quickly when I did this, but not this time. changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512343 m On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and let you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880 (Bornem). I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street. m. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will be. btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data. I've notices some roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) but the wrong postal code (hence also the name). The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat and Kleine Parijsstraat. See http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14lat=50.99405lon=4.44663layers=BTTuser=Glenn%20Plasage=6%20month When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you can in hombeek (Mechelen). Sometimes they exist in both of course, not these 2 though. One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which is our duty to add, but at that moment also consider adding more detail using key wikipedia=language:Page. Take a look at this node http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183 having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set. Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipediaand http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia for more information. You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how this is used. It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, but that only has about 12 of those currently in it. Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are interested in details. there is a plugin as well : http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed
where can I log this bug ? (I'm too lazy to look it up :-) ) m. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: It seems weird to me to add postal codes to streets. It's a good thing you found out that this helps nominatim, but now a bug needs to be reported, so they can change this erratic behaviour in their code. Otherwise we'll all be mapping for nominatim soon. Jo 2013/6/11 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com I just did the test. Immediately after uploading, the DIjkstraat got postcode 2880 (search Nominatim). Sas not yet. They were uploading in the same changeset : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512278 Sas is done with an associatedStreet with addr:postcode 2880, Dijkstraat with postal_code 2880 on the street itself feel free to try Sas, Bornem anytime to see whether it updated Then I also tried adding addr:postcode 2880 on house nr 2 in Sas. I thought that in the past it updated rather quickly when I did this, but not this time. changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512343 m On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.bewrote: On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and let you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880 (Bornem). I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street. m. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will be. btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data. I've notices some roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) but the wrong postal code (hence also the name). The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat and Kleine Parijsstraat. See http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14lat=50.99405lon=4.44663layers=BTTuser=Glenn%20Plasage=6%20month When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you can in hombeek (Mechelen). Sometimes they exist in both of course, not these 2 though. One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which is our duty to add, but at that moment also consider adding more detail using key wikipedia=language:Page. Take a look at this node http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183 having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set. Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipediaand http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia for more information. You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how this is used. It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, but that only has about 12 of those currently in it. Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are interested in details. there is a plugin as well : http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fietsknooppunten
Yet another way to use the data is to write a small program that extracts that data. I wrote a small Python program to download all nodes of a walking network. That data is then converted into a file with waypoints that I can use on my Garmin GPS. It will be rather easy to convert this program to one that does the same for cycling networks. m On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 14 June 2013 21:02:28 Daan Bellefroid wrote: I kind of get how to add a piece of way to the fietsknooppuntennetwerk. But I do not see how to add the knooppunt itself on the map? On the openfietsmap, you see the knooppunten with their numbers. But on the OSM, you don't see these. Is there documentation about this? You'll have to keep in mind that OSM is a database, not a rendered map. We map bits of information by putting things into this database, and then others can use this data. This can be a rendered map, maybe even a printed one, it may be files you can use on your gps device, an art or scientific project... You don't see every bit of information on every rendering, that's impossible. So every rendered map makes a selection on what it displays and how. The map you see on openstreetmap.org is a user of the database we make, and shows just a tiny selection of the data we have. Openfietskaart is another one which obviously selects some bicycle related information for its rendering. So how to get the cycle routes on the map? You basically just go to a rendered map like opencyclemap ( http://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=10lat=51.03034lon=4.4074layers=B000) or openfietskaart, to see this data. Or you can apply special rules in your editor to display this data for you (JOSM can do this, don't know about the support in other editors like Potlatch2) Hope this helps Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] designation key
I am under the impression that the designation key is misused a lot in Belgium. It's used for descriptions, notes, names, etc. (see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/nW ) It's hardly used for its intended purpose: The tag designation=* is used to record the legal classification of a way. (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation UK-only ?.) Or is there another definition/use of designation that I'm not aware of ? regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] designation key
Thanks a lot, Glenn. As for the chimney in Niel. We could use historic = industrial, or just historic=yes As far as I know, it is not a classified building (as I recently added all Beschermde monumenten in Niel). So heritage = 4 is not applicable. regards m On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: On 06/21/2013 09:12 AM, Glenn Plas wrote: On 06/20/2013 03:35 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I am under the impression that the designation key is misused a lot in Belgium. It's used for descriptions, notes, names, etc. (see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/nW ) It's hardly used for its intended purpose: The tag designation=* is used to record the legal classification of a way. (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation UK-only ?.) Or is there another definition/use of designation that I'm not aware of ? You're right about the use, I even see I misused it myself in my first edits even thought I understand the use as described now. So, I'm correcting now. tx for the overpass query, makes it easy to fix this. I fixed some (see changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16639881 ). There is some info that you just can't throw away to fix the tag use, I tried selecting appropriate keys(most work was re-keying the info) to keys like operator, name, note or ref. For example : the airport buildings used designation to put some interesting information on the buildings and it differs from the already chosen name , see http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/136459078 . I parked that info in 'ref' keys. Some information you just need to get rid of as it duplicates other keys. There are a few in that bbox that I left alone, there is node 1858449632. Someone with more experience on 'archeological' tagging than me should do this. Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] historic=battlefield
I'm interested in the usage of historic=battlefield. I saw that someone added this to e.g. to a cemetery in Eppegem (Zemst) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2308368137 There are also a lot of those tags around Bonheiden - Rijmenam - Keerbergen: http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=13lat=51.00577lon=4.56379layers=BFT Are these really battlefields or are they bunkers, cemeteries (something else) ? Can the tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dbattlefield) also be used for those purposes ? regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=battlefield
Ivo, ik geef je gelijk dat we sommige mappers afschrikken door alle/veel communicatie in het Engels te doen. I'll agree that we might scare away some (potential) mappers by doing most communication in English. m On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Ivo De Broeck ivo.debro...@gmail.comwrote: Misschien een andere taal gebruiken, bv nederlands ;-) 2013/6/24 Jo winfi...@gmail.com Please be gentle when explaining him where he goes wrong :-) We need all the fresh blood, I mean mappers we can get... Jo 2013/6/24 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be The Eppegem cemetary is like 1200 meters from my doorstep, I never saw a battlefield reference on the cemetary. Whats worse is , in his other edits he's adding parking space where I've already done all the parking space around. user has 5 edits on his name: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/fransvm I'm originally from Bonheiden, so I'll take a look there too after I see what has been done here. Glenn On 06/24/2013 09:37 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I'm interested in the usage of historic=battlefield. I saw that someone added this to e.g. to a cemetery in Eppegem (Zemst) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2308368137 There are also a lot of those tags around Bonheiden - Rijmenam - Keerbergen: http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=13lat=51.00577lon=4.56379layers=BFT Are these really battlefields or are they bunkers, cemeteries (something else) ? Can the tag ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dbattlefield ) also be used for those purposes ? regards m ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Ivo De Broeck Valleilaan 13 3360 Korbeek-lo tel +32 16 43 84 93 gsm +32 486 17 61 13 spanje tel +34 966 841 726 gsm +34 603 661 778 ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=battlefield
It's not just this mailing list. Go to openstreetmap.org and try to find a page in Dutch (for the Belgian community -- besides how to map a). Or even try to subscribe to this mailing list without any knowledge of English. I'm thinking of a whole category of retired people, that love to walk, bike, ..., but never had the opportunity to learn English (e.g. my father). You'll never reach them. Compare this with wikipedia, where you have a language switch on the front page, the first step is already smaller. regards m On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: It would never have occurred to me to write a personal message to this obviously Flemish user in English. As far as the mailing list goes, as far as I'm concerned anyone can write messages in French or Dutch as well. Especially if the contents only concern one part of the country. Het zou nooit bij me zijn opgekomen om een persoonlijke boodschap in het Engels tot deze gebruiker te richten. Wat de mailing list betreft, daar vind ik het geen probleem om in het Nederlands of Frans te schrijven. Al helemaal als de boodschap slechts 1 landsgedeelte aangaat. Maar ik zie er wel tegenop om al m'n boodschappen te gaan vertalen. Er is ook nog Google translate. Verre van perfect als oplossing, dat besef ik ook wel. Jo 2013/6/25 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Ivo, ik geef je gelijk dat we sommige mappers afschrikken door alle/veel communicatie in het Engels te doen. I'll agree that we might scare away some (potential) mappers by doing most communication in English. m On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Ivo De Broeck ivo.debro...@gmail.comwrote: Misschien een andere taal gebruiken, bv nederlands ;-) 2013/6/24 Jo winfi...@gmail.com Please be gentle when explaining him where he goes wrong :-) We need all the fresh blood, I mean mappers we can get... Jo 2013/6/24 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be The Eppegem cemetary is like 1200 meters from my doorstep, I never saw a battlefield reference on the cemetary. Whats worse is , in his other edits he's adding parking space where I've already done all the parking space around. user has 5 edits on his name: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/fransvm I'm originally from Bonheiden, so I'll take a look there too after I see what has been done here. Glenn On 06/24/2013 09:37 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I'm interested in the usage of historic=battlefield. I saw that someone added this to e.g. to a cemetery in Eppegem (Zemst) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2308368137 There are also a lot of those tags around Bonheiden - Rijmenam - Keerbergen: http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=13lat=51.00577lon=4.56379layers=BFT Are these really battlefields or are they bunkers, cemeteries (something else) ? Can the tag ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dbattlefield ) also be used for those purposes ? regards m ___ Talk-be mailing listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Ivo De Broeck Valleilaan 13 3360 Korbeek-lo tel +32 16 43 84 93 gsm +32 486 17 61 13 spanje tel +34 966 841 726 gsm +34 603 661 778 ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
